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Dutch court convicts 2 of stealing virtual items
Juankis
Member UncommonPosts: 166
Just hoping they learned their lesson.
Comments
That's very bad news if you ask me.
Virtual items should not be considered real world goods, it will have all sorts of negative implications for gamers.
If the two youths involved were "coercing" the victim they should have been prosecuted for either making threats of violence or some other charge.
reminds me of long ago, when i was evil and i would trick players of UO into giving me their house deeds because I could "dupe them using linux", as I ran away laughing to the bank.
Wonder how many years in prison I would have gotten back in the day, because it took players months to save up for these house deeds and I got about 5 of them doing this.
PLAY WURM ONLINE!! www.wurmonline.com
Wow. What a terrible idea. Virtual goods should NOT and NEVER be considered real.
.....
No other countries better follow this trend, or all MMO players are screwed.
Once the government decided that virtual goods are real, then they can TAX it...
And if they scale the tax based on the level your characters? or the value of the in-game good? Be prepare to pay a hefty sum as a raider due to having multiple sets of gears for raiding, and all the new gears you get will be taxed as well...
Now, this will also bring up problems where do you get tax reduction when you sell the item to the NPC vendor, or when you break it down into components to make new items... It'll be very bad for gamers in general.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)
Perhaps the charges were more about the fact that the kids 'bullied' the other kid. I doubt the court even cared about the 'virtual items'. My bet it was more to smarten the two bullies up.
It isn't really about what they stole. The verdict was a punishment against the act of stealing itself. In that light, the consequence was quite merciful in my eyes.
Blessings,
MMO migrant.
It isn't really about what they stole. The verdict was a punishment against the act of stealing itself. In that light, the consequence was quite merciful in my eyes.
Blessings,
Well the problem is in a lot of people's view taking items from others is part of the game, even if it resolves around scamming or cheating somebody.
If I were to take your money in a game of monopoly then should I be prosecuted knowing that it's all going back in the box at the end of the game anyway? Most people would find concept of prosecuting someone for this quite ridiculous. It could be argued that it is cheating, depending on the game, but it certainly is not a crime.
If however I was to say "give me your money or I'm going to smash you in face with a cricket bat in real life" and It could reasonably assumed that it was possible for me carry out my threat then this would be possibly an actually real crime.
That is what those people should have charged with. If they knew the victim in real life and actually threatened him with physical violence then that is probably an offense in it's own right.
They should not charge people with offenses for non real world items, it sets a dangerous precendent. When you are paying capital gains tax for your ingame items you will realise why people are so against this.
Yeah this is what it sounded like to me. They didn't really care about whether the items were virtual or not, but that there was indeed a "theft" at all. They only got community service anyways, so it's not like it's a big deal. I doubt such a minor case will be setting precedents for the rest of the world.
That's possible.
Quite frankly, if they were my kids (not that I have or want them) and they did this, community service would be the least of their worries.
I would start by deleting their accounts.
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It doesn't all go back in the box at the end of the game, though. Runescape is a persistent world like any other, and these kids knowingly tricked a third into giving them extremely valuable items that they will be able to use forever. The sad part is that now there's no way to give these items back (unless Jagex already has, though I doubt it) since open trade was removed at the beginning of this year. The kids received community service, but knowing the Runescape community I would be willing to bet they are still snickering about it to this day, and telling themselves it was totally worth it.
It doesn't all go back in the box at the end of the game, though. Runescape is a persistent world like any other, and these kids knowingly tricked a third into giving them extremely valuable items that they will be able to use forever. The sad part is that now there's no way to give these items back (unless Jagex already has, though I doubt it) since open trade was removed at the beginning of this year. The kids received community service, but knowing the Runescape community I would be willing to bet they are still snickering about it to this day, and telling themselves it was totally worth it.
Well it does "go back in the box" when the game ends. It's no different than me being charged with kidnaping somebodys imaginary friend.
Wow, ridiculous. What would someone do if they played EVE in a country where virtual goods are considered real goods? It's legal within the game mechanics to steal from someone in that game.
TOS for virtually every MMOish thing(including secondlife which feigns real ownership with real money) puts legal ownership in the hands of the developers.
Basically a trial that should have never happened except on grounds of coercian and bullying.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
just to clarify this (im dutch) the court ruled that there was indeed a case of stealing 'real goods' PLUS abusing the kid who owned the goods. The judge said that the runescape goods represent real value and, for that reason, can be stolen.
MMOs currently playing: -
About to play: Lord of the Rings Online
Played: Anarchy Online (alltime favorite) and lots of f2p titles (honorable mentions: 9Dragons, Martial Heroes, Dekaron, Atlantica Online)
What next, will they charge you with murder for killing someone's character in PvP?
Games played:
Runescape -------------- www.runescape.com
Magic of the Gods ------ www.magicofthegods.com
Saga of Ryzom ---------- www.ryzom.com
World of Warcraft ------- www.worldofwarcraft.com
Horrible ..
It's a game.. they scammed some kid.. If they threatened him in real life.. that's different.. but.. if not.. So?? It's a GD game. The items only have entertainment value. He cannot legaly sell them (he can sell the time.. I guess.. but since he's not employable..)
They only "stole" his time.. much like this story did. Can I, now, have them prosecuted?
Currently playing Real Life..
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LoL house deeds were easy as hell to save up for, the hard part is being able to find the plot big enough for you to place them in.
thats so halirious lmfao, i seriously cant stop laughing at those two. i hope they take some pictures of them and post them so i can laugh even more. sorry i got no pitty for a bunch of idiots stealing someone elses hard work. if its ok to run around and scam virtual items of players who've worked months for them, than its ok for china to steal the plans to basically everything its ever produced. but its not ok for either. i'm glad atleast one of them got punished for it though.
Is there not politcal uproar about this in Holland? It makes a mockery of the law.
TOS will me jack in the USA if congress changes laws or if IRS uses existing laws to make it legally viable to make stealing claims. Remember, the subject of virtual property is under scrutiny in the good old usa. dont' be surprised when it lands the wrong way.
Blodpls, when you post the only thing I can picture in my head is an ostrich with its head stuck in the ground. You talk about monopoly money in the same vein as virtual items, yet when is the last time that someone ever paid $1000 for any sum of monopoly money? Never, most likely? Yet it wouldn't take too much time to find the last time someone paid $1000 for a virtual item or account in a mmo.
No matter how much you obviously despise rmt, the simple fact of the matter is that these virtual goods do indeed have value to many people, as the multi-BILLION dollar rmt industry clearly shows. A virtual good in a mmo clearly is a token for time and effort, because without the time and effort the virtual item would not exist. No matter how much the devs try to stop it with flimsy EULAs, one must always remember that the judges who decide these cases are impartial and reasonable. I applaud this judge for recognizing the obvious value that virtual goods hold, and judging upon this clear point.
Can't wait until ganking is a federal crime.
Seriously though, I don't believe in any government involvement in our online games (except for predators and other crimes that extend to RL crimes). Issues like this should be resolved by the owners of the game.
Perhaps this will teach others not to be scum to those you game with -shrugs-
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
I do not despise real money transactions at all, in fact I think they should be legitimised in most if not all games. If people want to spend real money on fictitious items then they should be allowed to.
However I do not think that they should be offered any protection whatsoever within the law. The fact is they are not real in way shape or form, I don't care how much effort it has taken someone to obtain one of these items. That effort can be replicated in 1 click of a gamesmasters mouse.
If someone has broken the rules of a particular game then it is up to game provider to do something about it, if they will not or it is within the games rules then that is unfortunate for the losing party. If they have broken real world laws eg threatening somebody then they should be prosecuted for it.
If you can provide me with a digital item that I can physically hold in my hand in the real world or legal ownership of the server code / database entry then I would be willing to change my mind.
I personal feel anyone that would seek to prosecute somebody else for stealing one of their virtual items is most likely in need of psychiatric assistance.
What are you going to do if you character is accidentally wiped? Try putting in a insurance claim for it's ebay value and we can see far you get, lol.
I very much doubt that this will stand up in a court of appeal, it will no doubt be overturned or end up the European Court of Human Rights.
My comparison with monopoly money is vaild.
It doesn't all go back in the box at the end of the game, though. Runescape is a persistent world like any other, and these kids knowingly tricked a third into giving them extremely valuable items that they will be able to use forever. The sad part is that now there's no way to give these items back (unless Jagex already has, though I doubt it) since open trade was removed at the beginning of this year. The kids received community service, but knowing the Runescape community I would be willing to bet they are still snickering about it to this day, and telling themselves it was totally worth it.
Well it does "go back in the box" when the game ends. It's no different than me being charged with kidnaping somebodys imaginary friend.
If you threatened them with a knife, beat and kicked them repeatedly, and told them you would further injure or kill them unless they gave you their friend, I'm pretty sure you'd still go to prison.
The issue here isn't WHAT the kids stole, it's that they stole at all, as well as the method. They obviously felt that it was worth stealing, so in their minds and in the victim's mind, the crime is very real. Don't trivialize the seriousness just because you don't understand.