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Death blow to MMO as virtual world
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Sandbox style open world whatever obviously doesn't bring in the money, not the kind of money these big companies want.
Sitting here fuming over it isn't gonna change the fact that Bioware is going the way that will bring in the most people, yeah this is the new trend from MMO's and it isn't gonna change because as i already said, they are gonna design a game that brings in the most people, the old vets and sandbox players aren't enough....So it's either adapt to the times or give up mmo's or wait for that odball small company to make one.
This is the reality of MMO's adapt or stop playing them, They are making a video game, not a world to escape in, a video game that will be played on console and PC. So yeah you guys are right about that, and the masses just want a video game to play for abit and log off.
So you can sit here and cry about it for the next few years, which bioware won't care, or you can just write if off now and go find something else hopefully.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Completely and totally agree, and sadly, you're exactly right. This game will probably be decent, on the count that its Bioware, but nothing new at all, just more regression. I doubt there will be even any public dungeons, seems all instanced, not to mention they're going with WoW graphics.
This is why I'm praying Darkfall succeeds, so we can get some originality or at least sandbox gameplay back in this market.
Darkfall Travelogues!
As much as i loved the origional SWG, and miss it. We are finally getting SW with MMORPG elements and not a MMO with sprinkles of SW. I, like i'm sure many who have played SWG pre-cu knows how attached they had become to their online toon. It was for me, pretty hard to let it go when the NGE hit.
Now as this new mmo has been announced, i sat back and started thinking back at what i most enjoyed frim SWG. I can honestly say without a doubt, it was what and how i made my Character become, who he was and how he presented himself to others online.
It wasn't standing in buff lines and watching dancers, even though the freedom of choice a very nice system. This is the reason i think that SWTOR will be a great mmo. One that you can develope your toon anyway you like with real choices that affect him/her, through a story and create your own saga.
Meanwhile, you guys with your melodramatic "Woe is me" stuff is really tiring. If you expected BioWare to do a sandbox style game...well you're delusional. I want a sandbox game as much as the next guy, but blaming BioWare for not delivering on one is ridiculous. You're totally fighting the wrong battle here. Even if BioWare made a sandbox style MMO it would probably suck because that's not what they're good at.
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Life sucks, buy a helmet.
Sadly, i believe the OP is right.
SWG was an amazing game its boons where the open character development, its varity. The engine it ran on was bad and this hurt it the most. I was hoping for a good mmo. Guess ill try it for the kotor3 factor but its no epic MMO.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
You need to wake up. Why do we want to live in a virtual world? Why we want it to hold our interests for a long time?
There are so many games out there that it is more important for a game to deliver good entertainment for a while. We can always move on. MMO is not different from SP games in this aspect.
It is much better to deliver a good structured experienced than an empty virtual world. People don't want another life, they want good entertianment in this one.
I am hoping that it will be an epic GAME with some MMO elements. Who cares how much of a virtual world it is as long as it is a great game.
That kind of sums it up. If a company spends development time on creating AI henchmen for a game that is supposed to be played alongside thousands of real players, than you know something is wrong.
The saddest thing is that I bet plenty of people will prefer a story driven generic NPC over roleplaying with another person.
Hmm, may be offending to some people but i don't understand one thing.
How can some people play the same thing over and over. Do they never want something different, do they never think, hey if that was in , that could be so cool. It omost seems to me that the masses don't have a very high IQ or something. If you do 10000 times respawn and kill or 10000 times gather 15 boars or 10000 times do that or that then u must get bored somewhile. Because people with some IQ atleast feel that.
Do people never want something different. Do people always want fed up things in there games. No thinking , no puzzles. Just mindless doing something. An example. What is the point in killing 10 bears and what is the point of having a uber weapon? To show it ?
I find that useless and rather well.... low....... and bleh...
Why not instead of gathering 10 bears quests or 24/7 raid for uber items participate in massive battles, building something or show something that can affect? Don't people get tired of things?
Do the masses hate EVE because they don't have the IQ for that. Did these people even finish school.
These are pretty weird questions but i was expecting a bit more from the average guy.
Perhaps i am above average because i do not mind difficult things and i don't have allot of time with gaming , mostly 2 hours but still i think some challenge is great.
Just strange.... Omost seems that those people don't have a very high intelligence or just lack brains to think.
This is rude but i mean come on......
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the old days, the days of gold.
representer of euhporium, shade/amity , high member of the council.
played
UO,M59,EVE,L2,AC,GW,WOW,LOTRO,SWG pre cu/nge,COH/COV, VG,TR,L1, POTBS,Neocron 1 and 2, DAOC pre TOA and age of conan
playing: EVE ONLINE
Waiting for Earthrise, FE, bioware mmo, guild wars 2, DFO , mortal online , the chronicles of spellborn
So its a deathblow to one type of mmo, there are other types and maybe someone who has grown up watching everyone whine about how DF never came out and how apparently sandbox is the ONLY way (not attacking anyone in this thread btw) will make one.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Why is it sad? Stories created by professional writers and artists >>>> random players who don't know what they are doing.
I am very happy in the innovative direction bioware is trying to go. It remains to be seen if they can execute.
I fear you are a complete retard. To be honest, just typing this out, I feel like I have wasted these precious 10 seconds of my life telling you this because it will not change a thing. No explanation of the history of MMORPGs or the current state of MMORPGs will ever help you, please discontinue from all further posts.
Thank You.
You need to wake up. Why do we want to live in a virtual world? Why we want it to hold our interests for a long time? Because we don't all have ADHD. We don't all want to hop from MMO to MMO like locusts, consuming content and moving on. Some of us want to like an environment enough to call it home.
There are so many games out there that it is more important for a game to deliver good entertainment for a while. We can always move on. MMO is not different from SP games in this aspect. See above. There are some single player games I still play over and over that have almost no replay value, simply because I like the environment.
It is much better to deliver a good structured experienced than an empty virtual world. People don't want another life, they want good entertianment in this one. For people with zero imagination and creativity, sure. But what's entertaining to you isn't entertaining to everyone. Ask the people playing Second Life if they don't want a second life.
An "empty virtual world" fills up quickly, and isn't so empty after a short time.
What made SWG pre-cu so great was it WAS a virtual world. They could have put in epic storylines and led you around by the nose as well, nothing was stopping them. But people like you don't want to just have your cake and eat it too, you want to make sure nobody else gets any cake either.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
This is exactly what is happening. What is confusing to me is how many people not only accept this fact but embrace it. You can LIVE in a virtual world....it is the pinnacle of escapism. It is immersive and has depth that holds your interest for a long time.
But what Bioware is creating, you are just a visitor being chaperoned through the content by the developers. And hey look....you don't even need other players for most of it because they are giving us AI henchmen.
And we can't have other people interfering with your single player story can we, so we better make the game highly instanced too while we are at it..
Wake up people. I understand the honeymoon phase but come on. It's like people are in a coma and they don't see what Bioware are most likely giving us: a highly polished, stylized, story driven, highly instanced, single player game with occasional cooperative play. This is the most likely assumption, based on what we know at this point.
Terranah i love you. I just wanted to tell you that...
Ahem, back on topic. The point in all these discussions about TOR is that we really need to embrace one simple fact. The game has been announced 3 days ago. From all the recent information we have gathered in these last few days we know that there will be levels and a level cap, we will have one henchman to follow us, "every character will have its own story line", there will be *cough*heroic*cough* classes and an enormous world... Doesnt seem quite sandbox and promising now does it?
But lets look at it from a differnet angle... We have all played Bioware games right? We all know how they can create a fantastic storyline, great worlds, great atmosphere and great characters... Mix that up into an SW MMO settings and i think MAYBE we can have something great. Put the levels and henchman aside... levels, if done correctly, can't be that important, they can just show a more powerful player than you cuz he has been playing more, that sounds right doesnt it? Than again that doesnt mean you cant take him down if you play better than him, right? If levels are done like in mass effect or baldurs gate, i dont think we will have much to fear...
I dont know... i didnt put much tought in what i wrote but i hope it makes sense... Im still under impression of new SW game being announced i guess..
I hope you are aware of hipocrasy in your post.
You need to wake up. Why do we want to live in a virtual world? Why we want it to hold our interests for a long time? Because we don't all have ADHD. We don't all want to hop from MMO to MMO like locusts, consuming content and moving on. Some of us want to like an environment enough to call it home.
There are so many games out there that it is more important for a game to deliver good entertainment for a while. We can always move on. MMO is not different from SP games in this aspect. See above. There are some single player games I still play over and over that have almost no replay value, simply because I like the environment.
It is much better to deliver a good structured experienced than an empty virtual world. People don't want another life, they want good entertianment in this one. For people with zero imagination and creativity, sure. But what's entertaining to you isn't entertaining to everyone. Ask the people playing Second Life if they don't want a second life.
An "empty virtual world" fills up quickly, and isn't so empty after a short time.
LOL .. you are so sad and need to get a life. Games are entertainment. With so many coming out, y do you want to play even SP games again and again?
Yeah sure, there are no-lifers who want to live in Second Life, but you don't see millions and millions of those people, do you?
Let me give you a hint .. people who want to live in a virtual world is in the minute minority and good luck finding one. Meanwhile, i will just enjoy whatever neat, nice entertainment comes along.
Why is it sad? Stories created by professional writers and artists >>>> random players who don't know what they are doing.
I am very happy in the innovative direction bioware is trying to go. It remains to be seen if they can execute.
This post tells it all.
Somewhere between the 90's and today, imagination was murdered. People can't think and make up their own things any more, they need, they crave for "professionals" to tell them what to do, who they are and how to do it.
It's no wonder there's councelors, shrinks and whatever "Let me tell you what you do's" every nook and cranny in our society...
Why is it sad? Stories created by professional writers and artists >>>> random players who don't know what they are doing.
I am very happy in the innovative direction bioware is trying to go. It remains to be seen if they can execute.
This post tells it all.
Somewhere between the 90's and today, imagination was murdered. People can't think and make up their own things any more, they need, they crave for "professionals" to tell them what to do, who they are and how to do it.
It's no wonder there's councelors, shrinks and whatever "Let me tell you what you do's" every nook and cranny in our society...
You sounds like it is a bad thing. Division of labor is the corner stone of modern society.
I fear you are a complete retard. To be honest, just typing this out, I feel like I have wasted these precious 10 seconds of my life telling you this because it will not change a thing. No explanation of the history of MMORPGs or the current state of MMORPGs will ever help you, please discontinue from all further posts.
Thank You.
I fear your a clueless moron, to be honest, but its okay we all waste our time typing on these forums, but perhaps you should actually get a clue about mmo history and its current state, and the fact that mmo's will be designed in a way to bring in the most cash (in other words WoW clone, not a fail sandbox that will never generate the cash these big companies want) before you open your mouth again.
Thank you.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
You guys need to just relax...lol
The fact is that WoW is just the new Pokemon or Beanie Babies, or Power Rangers, whatever you want to call it, it's a flash in the pan; a fad.
The attention that it has brought to the MMO genre is good in ways because it has brought a lot of companies in that wouldn't have taken the risk before. Unfortunately it has corrupted the idea of what an MMO should be, and the games that are coming out now reflect that.
It won't last much longer before people get bored with this genre and move on to the next big thing...leaving in their wake a lot of nearly empty worlds that will eventually crumble. Maybe then companies like Turbine and Cryptic, who have built their companies around MMO's, will come up with the games that Old School MMOers want to play.
Until then the market is going to be flooded with short term, linear, 'themepark' MMOs by big name companies just looking to cash in on the flavor of the moment. Enjoy them for what they are and bide your time.
When WoW dies, it'll die because the era of the MMO is over. Those of us who played them before WoW will breathe a sigh of relief. We'll go back to our tight knit communities and open virtual worlds where we can once again immerse ourselves in the persona of our characters without the incessant global chatter of leet speaking teens and tweens.
Enjoy SW:TOR as what it really is...a huge KOTOR 3 with the option of grouping. Sounds pretty cool to me.
So naive.
Agreed. Darkfall is attempting to do it as we speak, they just don't have the big name that the others had when they made a sandbox.
I don't agree with the OP's speculation of SWTOR being comparable to KOTOR, I veiw SWTOR more comparable to WoW than anything at the moment. Only time will tell though because I guess there is a lot of room for speculation with the small amount of information that is currently available. I just hope they keep some of the sandbox elements like player housing and take it easy on instances. We'll see though...
Awesome! I'd be perfectly happy with that!
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
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And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
if this "story driven singleplayer" mmo (lol), actually is great fun and entertaining, then there's nothing wrong with it and worth every money, i'm getting dead tired of the meaningless old mmorpg standards, which obviously ain't working anymore.
People like the story line stuff, makes the game more complete, instead of thinking; "why did i actually have to kill 300 of these dire wolves again?".
If it works, there's no need to be worried, if it doesn't, well then we got a problem.
In the end, if you can "complete" the game within a month, then you won't have to bother with the sub in the first place, if the subpart should be the problem. Though that would be rather sad if it ended already within the first month.
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