Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Ill take mine HEAVY on the PvE; Light on the pvp please..
popinjay
Member Posts: 6,539
Aside from the usual "please do not suck" wishes that we would have for this game, just remember your licensing heritage.
The original Star Wars was all about story of course. Please do not try and introduce things that will potentially ruin this game, such as P V P. A little token pvp maybe, some arenas where a jedi can battle or something. But please spend the majority of the time on STORY and things that will get people together as a mature community. Questing, Grouping Team play.
The gaming scene right now is rife with games that have been trying to satisfy both camps PvE and pvp at the same time, and they are failing MISERABLY because of it. (Wow being the only exception). I do believe the majority of real Star Wars fans are mature (seeing as how most of us saw the movie when it was actually released in the theatres). This type of crowd usually prefers PvE and the storylines that come with it. We actually take time to READ the quests, not clicky clicky thru just to get to the next level, then complain theres nothing to do and the storyline is boring.
There are plenty of games right now that can give pvp fans a fix. Let them have Warhammer. Let them go to Wow. Let them have Darkfall. Doac. Guild Wars. etc. Age of Conan. The list goes on and on. Plenty of things for them to hack and slash each other to death. And theres even more of that junk in development.
Please make a MMO for adults this time. The Trade and Chat channels will thank you for it.
Comments
Well, there's definitely going to be some PvP because after all it's the Jedi vs. Sith. And that's good because BioWare is great on the PvE side, I bet this game is going to have a crap load of PvE I mean beyond your wildess dreams. And not only that far more important that, I hope the gameplay is like Tabula Rasa and the storyline like Final Fantasy XI
I havent played Jade empire or mass effect, but all the other Bioware games I have played have had a fair amount of depth, great story lines and barring a few irritating bugs incredibly fun.
I'd say the kind of pvp they'll employ is likely to be consensual and from an rp basis, ie there will be justification (no arenas please or scenario crap).
The fact that they have already stated it will be story driven and personal alignment adds context to how npc's react to your avatar is a good sign, they also have stated that the game will be huge from an explorational angle.
Does sound promising, keeping an eye on this one
That would be refreshing. Theres a nasty trend towards all these Pvp games lately. Theres something strangely antisocial about that genre thats really strange.
Ive usually found that in games like FFXI, the communities/guilds were better because the people spent time organising and trying to figure how to kill a fictional mobboss. The things you say "that boss sucks" and such are directed at a mob. In pvp, theres far less teamwork and when they say 'that guy sucks" they are talking about real people. Who then respond about how they suck. And so on and so forth. After a bit, those communities just get so degraded you have to /off the channels just so you dont see the idiocy, or fill up your blacklist. I dont think I ever got anywhere close to filling a blacklist while playing FFXI. Those people usually didnt last past level 25 or 30. There wasnt enough ganking or insulting or whatever so they left and went to other games to get a rise out of folks.
Again, some pvp would be ok. Just enough to play around in one area. But I hope they dont make the game half dependant on it.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Well there are some out there, LoTRo most notably, that have been fairly successful...but if your search, just these forums I bet you'll find countless posts complaining about the lack of PvP. If it's, at all, like the Pre NGE SWG...that was story/world based, with a little PvP thrown in...it will be a great game. Will it be successful? It seems most people want open PvP (GANKING)...that's why most companies are following suit.
I agree with you though...I hope they opt for a great game...and not necessarily tren towards the massesd. If they're smart anyway...look how long these full PvP games last. The kids sign up for a few...then move on to the next. SWG on the other hand, had a very loyal clientell..
I've seen things, you...people, wouldn't believe... . Attack ships on fire, off the shoulder of Orion... . I watched C-Beams, glitter in the darkness near the Tannhauser Gate... . All those...moments will be lost in time... . Like...tears...in the rain...
Time to die.....
Roy Batty
Blade Runner
As long as they don't SPLIT servers I am fine.
I.E. having pve and pvp varients is a bad thing. It's what killed AoC's launch population.
Combat should be seamless reguardless of man or beast. No seperation of PVE and PVP populations.
It's a LOOSE LOOSE idea.
Have to agree here. If go to any forums of games that have strong pvp alot of the posts are pvper mad at something that a class does in pvp. I respect that people like to pvp, but even they have to admit its a constant battle to keep pvp fair and not effect the pve side of playing. Most class nerfs (not saying all mind you) come from some effect of affecting pvp because of the famous flavour of the month and it usually affects the pve side negativley.
Personally Id like to see pvp and pve servers. Thats the best way in my opinion to satisfy both. And if have to change a class that is dominating pvp, have the changes only effect the pvp and leave alone the pve side of it aka LOTR does that well.
I understand pvpers are passionite about this being in the games and respect it, just disagree with it affecting my class and play on the pve side to make the pvpers happy. I feel i have much right not to pvp as they do to pvp, and not unreasonable that my gameplay should be affected by something i do not enjoy or participate in.
Disagree with this. What killed AOC launch was poor gameplay and and no conent after 20. I totaly support pve and pvp servers. But guess im just so tired of having my gameplay changed because of PVP and admit im desperate to see a game that can promise not to change gameplay just to satisfy the complaints of PVPers about a class thats unfair to them.
Okay lets think it like this way... If you people were actually living in a Star wars universe... Do you really think people would be nice to each other every where? I mean come on really.... That is the whole point of starwars. Was the fights. Yes there was story but there was also fighting... Openly may i add.
I mean if someone was talking bad about me in a tavern/bar/club/whatever. I would want to kill him! I would straight up want to cut his hand off his arm. With this so called PvE story driven crap.. That is not possible.
So what we would pretty much get is a Pansy starwars universe...
So I would say that if someone just made a Story driven Star wars game I would have to say it is not star wars at all... I want a star wars universe that is story driven but is lose and allows for such freedom! Than I would call that game a TRUE star wars mmo.
P.S. A lot fo the PvP sandbox games have VERY mature communites. So I have no clue what you are talking about. You MUST be a wow player.... So I say you have not right to talk... Just because you are a wow fan.
Actually it was stated by Bioware that they will be focusing 75% on a PvP Basis and 25% on a PvE Basis. This being because of the constant conflict of Jedi vs. Sith and the way the story will be performed. They had also stated why this decision was made was because of the large majority of the population preferring to contribute in PvP other than the normal PvE scenarios.
Which I believe is going to be very exciting, perhaps a Sandbox theme will just sky rocket this game to easy stardom. Goes to show that MMORPGs have adapted to a PvP central theme, now we just have to wait until we see Ultima Online once again!
Please post a source or at least say where you got the info from. I've read a lot of material on the game and also listened to the gamespot interview. So far I've barely heard them mention PvP at all let alone say it's going to be the majority of the game. So far all I've heard about is Bioware wanting to do a good PvE story driven MMO.
well Joker, since youre guessing about what I like..
Yes, I have played WoW. And yes, by the way, I DID like it. I guess since by what you stated, you either:
A. Have played WoW and did not like it.
B. Listened to everyone who said WoW stinks and havent played it.
C. Played Wow, liked it, but are too manly to admit that you did like it.. lest your PvP buddies pull your gank card.
Either way, me playing and liking WoW doesnt make me less knowledgeable than someone who doesnt like it. I think thats really a personal like/dislike. But I dont know how you would say someone who simply liked WoW has no right to talk. Hmm.. Visit Iran much? Im a EQ1/2, FFXI, Guildwars, Vanguard fan as well. I guess if you like those games now your opinion is different?
Also, until SWG, all the Star wars games were story driven. They werent MMOs and they did just fine on PC, console and whatever. There was no Pvp in it, and they sold quite a bit of everything. Tie vs Xwing, etc. So for you to say if someone made a story driven Star wars.. have you ever PLAYED any Star Wars games in the past?
Your talk about a "pansy" Star Wars Universe, "someone talking ad about you in a tavern bar etc.. err.. its just a game.
One thing: Im glad by your posting that you represent the typical PvPer community VERY well. Exactly the type of people The Old Republic would NOT need in it. Smack talking, higher than thous cause he can gank better.
and which "lot of the PvP sandbox games have VERY 'mature' communities? Dont have to name a 'lot'.
Name 3 if you can Joker.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Please post a source or at least say where you got the info from. I've read a lot of material on the game and also listened to the gamespot interview. So far I've barely heard them mention PvP at all let alone say it's going to be the majority of the game. So far all I've heard about is Bioware wanting to do a good PvE story driven MMO.
I'd like to see that link too. Because if it's true, Bioware just fucked up. PvP is still the same minority it always was, and open PvP an even smaller minority just as it always was.
There was a strong reference to warhammer's pvp from the source material I read, I'd guess they'll be refining some ideas from war for that aspect of gameplay.
If indeed it does ever turn out that the emphasis tips in favour of a gankfest, I'll never subscribe to it.
The only reference to PvP I've seen so far is that it will be Realm-vs.-Realm based ( like WAR ). No mention at all of "open PvP". So it should be fine.
yea, LOTRo really has a neat solution to this pvp pve dialemma. PVPers can smack talk them all in Ettenmore, and leave the channels in other main cities clean. Actually PVP in LOTRo format can be escalated into a bigger role, not just that small zone as implemented in LOTRo. The key point is, keep PVPers from hassling PVErs.
Even with PVE servers, some PVPers are too tempted to find ways to hassle the PVErs, including the unwaried. Flagging and running close to aoeing young PVErs, flaggind and hiding inside the graphics of a big PVE mob and hoping the unwary PVEr will carelessly target him (through tabs) ... all these assholes are making PVErs' life harder than they need to. Typically these assholes go to zones way lower to terrorise the young ones. Another annoying behavioiur is to kill or bug quest mobs just to make it hard for the other side to do quests, quest mobs that are totally grey (low level) and never giving any faction/honor (no matter what lvl the quest mob is).
SWG is unique. The storyline has factions fighting each other. Indeed, but the story also has a triving economy and world life in which open war is not yet there, and basic law and order still exist in most cities. The game will have to balance itself in this aspect, not an easy job.
As for those who try to sell the idea that PVP is a majority, back up your case or shut up. Few players play PVP exclusively, a lot of players play PVE exclusively. Typical PVPer makes less reliable and cooperative guildmates than PVErs, my experience. PVPers are less attached to the game itself than PVErs. They are unwilling to spend time and resources to build up a character. They want instant max level, all spells and skills and go fight and win PVP, or lose and move to new games. Some simply champion the idea of no level (which is a good idea in some way, but for them it instant PVP against everyone).
They will contribute much less to the funding of a game. To me some of these PVPers are parasites. They want to play but not pay. They want to make the most out of annoying or harassing others, and when they drive the game void of normal players they whined and move on.
I strongly strongly disagree with the OP. The classic arguement that is employed, by bioware and others, (well documented) is that this is a star WARS game. This game will feature players as HEROs for each side as they play thier part in the galaxy based on thier class (also documented in an interview on thier "story" pillar). While there are shades of grey the central conflict in this game is the Galactic republic vs the Sith empire. There will without a doubt be pvp on every server in some form or another.
yea, LOTRo really has a neat solution to this pvp pve dialemma. PVPers can smack talk them all in Ettenmore, and leave the channels in other main cities clean. Actually PVP in LOTRo format can be escalated into a bigger role, not just that small zone as implemented in LOTRo. The key point is, keep PVPers from hassling PVErs.
Even with PVE servers, some PVPers are too tempted to find ways to hassle the PVErs, including the unwaried. Flagging and running close to aoeing young PVErs, flaggind and hiding inside the graphics of a big PVE mob and hoping the unwary PVEr will carelessly target him (through tabs) ... all these assholes are making PVErs' life harder than they need to. Typically these assholes go to zones way lower to terrorise the young ones. Another annoying behavioiur is to kill or bug quest mobs just to make it hard for the other side to do quests, quest mobs that are totally grey (low level) and never giving any faction/honor (no matter what lvl the quest mob is).
SWG is unique. The storyline has factions fighting each other. Indeed, but the story also has a triving economy and world life in which open war is not yet there, and basic law and order still exist in most cities. The game will have to balance itself in this aspect, not an easy job.
As for those who try to sell the idea that PVP is a majority, back up your case or shut up. Few players play PVP exclusively, a lot of players play PVE exclusively. Typical PVPer makes less reliable and cooperative guildmates than PVErs, my experience. PVPers are less attached to the game itself than PVErs. They are unwilling to spend time and resources to build up a character. They want instant max level, all spells and skills and go fight and win PVP, or lose and move to new games. Some simply champion the idea of no level (which is a good idea in some way, but for them it instant PVP against everyone).
They will contribute much less to the funding of a game. To me some of these PVPers are parasites. They want to play but not pay. They want to make the most out of annoying or harassing others, and when they drive the game void of normal players they whined and move on.
Right on MOST excellent post I've ever seen on this board...on PvP'ers.
With PvP'ers it's always about INSTANT gratification. Their gauge is their own orgasm.
Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~Ernest Gaines
yea, LOTRo really has a neat solution to this pvp pve dialemma. PVPers can smack talk them all in Ettenmore, and leave the channels in other main cities clean. Actually PVP in LOTRo format can be escalated into a bigger role, not just that small zone as implemented in LOTRo. The key point is, keep PVPers from hassling PVErs.
Even with PVE servers, some PVPers are too tempted to find ways to hassle the PVErs, including the unwaried. Flagging and running close to aoeing young PVErs, flaggind and hiding inside the graphics of a big PVE mob and hoping the unwary PVEr will carelessly target him (through tabs) ... all these assholes are making PVErs' life harder than they need to. Typically these assholes go to zones way lower to terrorise the young ones. Another annoying behavioiur is to kill or bug quest mobs just to make it hard for the other side to do quests, quest mobs that are totally grey (low level) and never giving any faction/honor (no matter what lvl the quest mob is).
SWG is unique. The storyline has factions fighting each other. Indeed, but the story also has a triving economy and world life in which open war is not yet there, and basic law and order still exist in most cities. The game will have to balance itself in this aspect, not an easy job.
As for those who try to sell the idea that PVP is a majority, back up your case or shut up. Few players play PVP exclusively, a lot of players play PVE exclusively. Typical PVPer makes less reliable and cooperative guildmates than PVErs, my experience. PVPers are less attached to the game itself than PVErs. They are unwilling to spend time and resources to build up a character. They want instant max level, all spells and skills and go fight and win PVP, or lose and move to new games. Some simply champion the idea of no level (which is a good idea in some way, but for them it instant PVP against everyone).
They will contribute much less to the funding of a game. To me some of these PVPers are parasites. They want to play but not pay. They want to make the most out of annoying or harassing others, and when they drive the game void of normal players they whined and move on.
Right on MOST excellent post I've ever seen on this board...on PvP'ers.
With PvP'ers it's always about INSTANT gratification. Their gauge is their own orgasm.
I disagree with this as well. Your post describes griefers not players that enjoy pvp. If someone is bothering you in the game why not just kill them? Thats a great thing about pvp. Yes people who participate in pvp are the majority. You cannot exclusively pvp because at some point you need to lvl up gear up xp up whatever it is depending on the game. Saying that In all the games I have played I have never met a person that did not pvp at some point if pvp was infact a part of that game. That is something you cannot deny. Pvp provides an amazing element that programmers will never be able to provide in any other way. This game will have pvp its been said. I am sorry if that in some way will inhibit your experience of a multiplayer online game (where player vs player first emerged).
I'm amused that so many of you generalize all PvP'ers to be immature idiots that ruin MMOs. A tad ironic.
A guy made a comment that PvE requires more teamwork... Really? Beating a scripted and predictable mob. Sure, it requires teamwork, but it doesn't compare to the on the fly teamwork that's needed to excel in PvP. Much more demanding.
Believe it or not, there are SW fans that want to be a jedi fighting another human-controlled sith. The game supposedly REVOLVES around this conflict and suggesting it should be focused on developer created PvE/stories is weak.
Relying on the devs for 'story' is OK to some extent but in the end, an MMO story need to be heavily player driven.
The only exception to this would be that they make some revolutionary idea that sets a new standard for MMO's... I don't see that happening at this point.
Also, it's important to note that class based PvP pretty much always sucks. So you PvE'ers shouldn't have too much to worry about.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Self-confessed DF fanboy. Finally a real ****ing MMO.
I prefer pvp for its unpredictable nature, theres only so many times you can fight a pve boss before it gets old. People forget that games are supposed to give you a rush, no mmo pve games gives you a rush because the AI is so bad. Unlike some people i dont cry when i get ganked, it makes the game more fun and i will get my revenge eventually on that player.
OP,
Do you make personal phone calls to numbers with an intricate automated response system. Do you have engaging debates with books. Have you ever tested a theory in a lab.
The above statement should be taken with a grain of salt. I am chiding you because it is overly curious to me how someone can say that PvP is antisocial and not take into consideration that the very nature of pvp is to socialize with other players. Without the other people its JUST pve.
That is not to knock pve, it is neccessary and an inescapable mechanic of any MMO. But for you to say "Heavy on the PvE" really does lead to the conlcusion that you are a selfish person. PvP is escapable and does not have to be implemented to force a mass audience to participate. You want to limit the options of others based on your gameplay style.
That is something most pvp players would not do.
I disagree OP. My first MMORPG was SWG, so I had a lot to learn. One thing I learned about was the TEF--when fighting (doing missions) for my faction, I had to be careful that a PVE situation didn't turn into a PVP one. That made the game thrilling, but more importantly it made SENSE. Of course you should be able to attack someone that's attacking your faction! Let me tell you...I sucked at PVP. Probably because I never wanted the uber templates, I just wanted to play my character--so my character cloned a lot LOL--but it wasn't a matter of maturity or anything like that...we were enemies plain and simple. I remember coming across a couple of Imps attacking a Reb base, so I ran up to the officer and went overt to help defend the base. When they deathblowed my sorry self LOL one of them asked me why I did that knowing I was gonna get killed, I responded because it was in my characters nature to try to defend this outpost until help arrived--in other words it was a role playing opportunity.
and yes, I did get jumped while doing missions because of my TEF--no, it never made me think "this game sucks" or anything like that--it made me more careful. When my character was powerful enough, I remember catching a few Imps off guard too--some I wouldn't attack because they obviously didn't know what was going on--they'd be TEF'd and walk around me while I was overt--I'd explain their "situation" and tell them to avoid doing that in the future--they'd thank me for not blowin their heads off and we'[d go our separate ways.
Then they removed the TEF and just about everything else in the game LOL. The removal of the TEF was it for me...all of a sudden you had people walking around Imp outposts in reb armor or even attacking enemy outposts and no one could do anything about it but watch--wearing your faction armor didn't require overt status--it was crazy, it made NO SENSE. It destroyed the role playing aspect of being allied to the Imps or Rebs. I cancelled my subscription when I realized they'd make harmful changes like that to the game because they didn't get the "numbers" they wanted.
I've played one game I know of that didn't have much PvP and thats Everquest. Most of the balance was around PvE ground combat so classes were not balanced for solo or PvP combat. This made grouping a lot more fun in many cases as the classes were designed primarily around the role you played in group PvE. The game remained fun for a long time due to the difficulty and patience required to advance in the game.
I tried warhammer recently and I find the PvP is not enjoyable. It lasted me a few days before the killing eachother over and over again got boring to do. In WoW it felt the same way. Killing other people over and over again was not enjoyable. On the filp side at least the fedex quests had a feeling you were doing something or making a difference in some way.
The devs have said they want to satisfy all groups in one of the articles I read. They have a group of people who like solo PvE, they have a group who like group PvE, and they have a group who like PvP. To me this is again an abitious project considering they also want to make a story driven game. What happens is that you don't end up making any group of people happy. To me Bioware should stick with what they are good (story driven PvE) and leave the PvP as a secondary thing to do.
I aint big on open PvP, to be hnest i detest it after spending a week of being griefed and ganked in Vanguard BUT...... SWG had the right idea, open PvP where you had to flag yourself as wanting to PvP or not, this system kept everyone happy. I think thats what they should do in SW:TOR....
Yes I prefer my PvE over pvp. I make no bones about it. I dont mind a small amount of PvP if it added something to the game in some small way but generally, I prefer to spend my time on challenging mobs that developers spend years thinking up, designing and implementing. I dont think I have to apologize for that. That is the basis of MMOs. It started with that. JUST that. Not including muds, the first real successful MMO was EQ1. Did that release with pvp in it? Did it have a loyal and mature following? Did it last until.. oh wait.. its STILL around. And the friendships that guilds made are still around today that have traversed to other games. Thats what a mature PvE environment can do for you. So far, I have a pretty fulfilling life with family and such, I would just like my gaming experience to be an extension of it; not an escape from it.
Now somewhere between that and todays current state of gaming, there has evolved a need for man to want to 'kill' him fellow man. Although its just in game form with toons and avatars, that sentiment is still there. Its why they turn the blood option on and drooled when AoC released decapitations vids.
A lot of people like to dress it up as more of a 'challenge' to try and kill a fellow human than a mob. Actually, its worlds easier to kill humans, as any real PvPer will tell you. Its done all the time and pretty fast too. Look at any battleground in Wow or now in Warhammer and youll find that usually, people die VERY quickly. Long drawn out battles are rare. I dare say, that a battle where two sides that are evenly matched are usually FROWNED upon, and called "turtles'. One side or the other usually detests this so much, as to call it boring, and would rather go in and beat the other side 3-0 or 10-0 or whatever scale is used.
The most successful "strategy" in any PvP fight is simply this: Find the opposing sides healer, zerg him, then kill out the tank or dps after that,, your choice. This is repeated so much, that even a novice to PvP can understand this. I have played Wow warhammer, GW and a few others and matches typical and usually gravitate to this. This boredom leads to ganking outside areas when allowed, harrassing, etc just because people "hate" one side or the other. I simply dont understand how someone can play a 10 min PvP 'battle' then say thats more challenging than a boss that wipes your whole raid party several times to where you hate that mob. (and curse the developer for dreaming it up lol) Developers have to spend far less time coming up with dungeon/mob ideas and become less creative. For a pvp game.. lets see.. Make a few maps, balance the classes after the crying then make a Halloween event for them. Easy enough. Dont make it easy on the developers. Tax them, make them earn the money you are about to pay for the box and each month.
This pvp is healthy for 'mature' adults to engage in? I know this is where the current state of gaming is going eventually, but do we really want to decimate and humilate people in a gaming world with trash talk, bad manners and poor sportsmanship?
Aside from loot grabbing, PvE content usually brings out the best in people. It molds them into a cohesive team or guild to go in an area and beat what the best minds have tried to stump them with. Even PUGs are forced to cooperate to achieve a boss win; everyone plays their part and the mission is accomplished. Its not done in 5-10-30 mins.. its a journey.
Its been suggested by someone here that a pvper would not be selfish as Im saying or something.. You know, if hoping to see the better of people emerge in a gaming community as an extension of humanity instead of someone advertising to their base desires to kill, own, main, frag, vaporize, hack, slash, decimate, or freeze to death another player, then call me selfish all day long.
Now that I think of it.. Ill have two helpings of PvE please. (apologies for the text; probably shoulda blogged that someplace)
"TO MICHAEL!"