Best Linear/themepark MMO poll

metalhead980 · October 2008

Which linear MMO did you like the best?

Edit: yes I'm bored at work.

metalhead980 · October 2008

Crappy poll limit, sorry if I missed any games.

BesCirga · October 2008

You forgot my vote, DDO... What defines a good themepark game, is its quests and character advancement. DDO wins here, hands down.

Also, Linear and themepark isnt the same. You can have a non-linear themepark game. There is acouple of games on that list I would have removed thought, as they are not linear or a themepark game, Lotro and vanguard to mention two. (imo off course)

John.A.Zoid · October 2008

I don't see how any of them is linear seeing as you have a choice of what you want to do and go where you want. Linear as in levels then yeah but the games themselves arn't linear, thats like saying Oblivion is linear for having a storyline.

Recant · October 2008

How to make a sandbox game in just a few easy steps:

1) Take a game that pretentious cretins like to call 'linear', such as WoW.

2) Remove goal orientated tasks, and over-arching storylines.

3) Remove PvP arenas and battlegrounds, instances and daily quests.

4) Remove soloing options and enforce class interdependancy.

5) Restrict the amount of gameplay options your chosen class/profession have, to make them more 'unique'.

Congratulations, you now have a bare husk of a game where players need to entertain themselves to have fun, thus creating the fabled 'sandbox' games of yesterday and making the miserable cretins happy for 2 months before they quit because they added extra content and gameplay options, 'WoW-ifying' the game.

Abrahmm · October 2008

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

I don't see how any of them is linear seeing as you have a choice of what you want to do and go where you want. Linear as in levels then yeah but the games themselves arn't linear, thats like saying Oblivion is linear for having a storyline.

Really? You can go where ever you want in WoW? Or is the majority of the world inaccessable until you reach a certain level? You can mix and match what ever skills, abilities, and qualities you want? Or are you completely restricted to what the devs have decided you can? So in fact, the games listed are very linear, as you are restricted to a very select few things. You can only be 1 of 9 classes in WoW. You can only level in one of a select few areas at any given level. You have very few choices.

Abrahmm · October 2008

Originally posted by Recant

How to make a sandbox game in just a few easy steps:
1) Take a game that pretentious cretins like to call 'linear', such as WoW.
2) Remove goal orientated tasks, and over-arching storylines.
Wrong, sandbox games can have goals.
3) Remove PvP arenas and battlegrounds, instances and daily quests.
Correct, god forbid you fight over something other than a completely worthless staged battle with even teams and absolutely no impact from whether you win or lose.
4) Remove soloing options and enforce class interdependancy.
Isn't that the point of an MMORPG? Or are you from the single player crowd that has invaded this genre and demanded MMO's be turned into nothing more than a single player game that you pay for and play online?
5) Restrict the amount of gameplay options your chosen class/profession have, to make them more 'unique'.
Funny, that sounds like the exact opposite of a sandbox game. That actually sounds like a... Linear game. Where a warrior is a warrior, a mage is a mage. I remember in SWG I was a Rifleman/Carbineer with a little dabbling in combat medic. Surely there is nothing restricting about having a choice, and the ability to be creative. The only restrictions are in classes themselves, where you get to be only what the devs say you can be.
Congratulations, you now have a bare husk of a game where players need to entertain themselves to have fun, thus creating the fabled 'sandbox' games of yesterday and making the miserable cretins happy for 2 months before they quit because they added extra content and gameplay options, 'WoW-ifying' the game.
I'll just assume you attempted a sandbox game and found it too difficult to understand, or simply don't enjoy having freedom and choices, and would much rather be led off a cliff like a lemming.

Recant · October 2008

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Recant

How to make a sandbox game in just a few easy steps:
1) Take a game that pretentious cretins like to call 'linear', such as WoW.
2) Remove goal orientated tasks, and over-arching storylines.
Wrong, sandbox games can have goals.
3) Remove PvP arenas and battlegrounds, instances and daily quests.
Correct, god forbid you fight over something other than a completely worthless staged battle with even teams and absolutely no impact from whether you win or lose.
4) Remove soloing options and enforce class interdependancy.
Isn't that the point of an MMORPG? Or are you from the single player crowd that has invaded this genre and demanded MMO's be turned into nothing more than a single player game that you pay for and play online?
5) Restrict the amount of gameplay options your chosen class/profession have, to make them more 'unique'.
Funny, that sounds like the exact opposite of a sandbox game. That actually sounds like a... Linear game. Where a warrior is a warrior, a mage is a mage. I remember in SWG I was a Rifleman/Carbineer with a little dabbling in combat medic. Surely there is nothing restricting about having a choice, and the ability to be creative. The only restrictions are in classes themselves, where you get to be only what the devs say you can be.
Congratulations, you now have a bare husk of a game where players need to entertain themselves to have fun, thus creating the fabled 'sandbox' games of yesterday and making the miserable cretins happy for 2 months before they quit because they added extra content and gameplay options, 'WoW-ifying' the game.
I'll just assume you attempted a sandbox game and found it too difficult to understand, or simply don't enjoy having freedom and choices, and would much rather be led off a cliff like a lemming.

Oh please. 'Staged battles are worthless', whereas uncontrolled battles the ratio of players on each side always differs, are good, because... it's more realistic? Great. So the battles are basically determined before they're even fought, but at least it's not 'staged'! God no! It can't possibly be staged. A competitive 'fight', with rules to make things fair? How terribly staged! Molest me not with this, I want 'realistic' war, where people get steamrolled or are the ones doing the steamrolling, thus making all my abilities pointless because it becomes a numbers game anyway.

Great.

Sandbox games can have goals, yes I know. Add more goals though, more content, and suddenly the aforementioned pretentious cretins cannot seem to fathom that they're doing all these 'goals' or quests, and it's not sandboxy enough for them anymore.

Sandbox games, are inferior versions of the so-called 'theme-park' games because they don't have any bloody content. Have you seen the missions in EVE? There's about 20, and you repeat them over , and over, and over, and over again. The mission text.. for each one.... identical...

WoW is a sandbox game, if you ignore all of the great gameplay options. It is by your own limitations that you are calling these games sandbox.

People even seem to think that SWG was a Sandbox game! HA. I've got one word for you... JEDI.

You insult my intelligence by suggesting I find sandbox games too difficult to understand, but it is your intelligence I question because you cling to these awful terms such as sandbox, not realizing what they actually mean. No goals, no rules, just toys and imagination.

The horrifying truth is that todays MMORPGs are Sandbox games PLUS all the great content and advances. You may still use your imagination and do whatever you want, ignore the beaten path and choose your own playstyle. But the moment you're given the choice between something 'sandboxy' and 'theme park' you will choose theme park every time because it's simply more fun.

And this is why I think people who crave sandbox games which have been mysteriously dissapearing around the same time developers started adding actual CONTENT TO THEM, are pretentious cretins.

You want a sandbox, play World of Warcraft. I am not kidding. Feel free to turn your nose up at me, but deep down, despite the fact it's everything you've despised for the last few years, you know that I'm right.

I want you guys to do a little homework. First of all, look up the definiton of the English word 'game'. Then look up the definition for 'sandbox'. Not what you think they mean, what they are defined as by the English language.

paulscott · October 2008

A sandbox game is summed up as a game that has multiable paths of progression, even the ability to forgo typical progression paths and still have fun.

The quickest and dirtiest test for a sandbox game is: can you ignore combat(purely headbashing kind) and still evovle your character, and to what if any extent?

x_rast_x · October 2008

It's been my experience that the sandbox-style of gameplay is something you either 'get' and enjoy in the first ten minutes, or you stand around bored because you have nothing to do until you quit.

There's pretty much no inbetween and games open-ended games that don't have pre-set goals or tell you what to do have never been mainstream successes. How many people prefer Sim City over GTA? Myst over Final Fantasy?

There's been a lot of posts here lately about why otherwise linear games can't have a strong sandbox component. i agree here - too much direction turns me off after a while (why I quit WoW after two years of hardcore raiding), too little condemns a game to relative obscurity - I love Eve to death but I would be shocked if it ever broke a million subs.

Briansho · October 2008

Originally posted by Recant

How to make a sandbox game in just a few easy steps:
1) Take a game that pretentious cretins like to call 'linear', such as WoW.
2) Remove goal orientated tasks, and over-arching storylines.
3) Remove PvP arenas and battlegrounds, instances and daily quests.
4) Remove soloing options and enforce class interdependancy.
5) Restrict the amount of gameplay options your chosen class/profession have, to make them more 'unique'.
Congratulations, you now have a bare husk of a game where players need to entertain themselves to have fun, thus creating the fabled 'sandbox' games of yesterday and making the miserable cretins happy for 2 months before they quit because they added extra content and gameplay options, 'WoW-ifying' the game.

Yikes, if this ever happens the game forum server would crash from all the whining.

John.A.Zoid · October 2008

Originally posted by x_rast_x

It's been my experience that the sandbox-style of gameplay is something you either 'get' and enjoy in the first ten minutes, or you stand around bored because you have nothing to do until you quit.
There's pretty much no inbetween and games open-ended games that don't have pre-set goals or tell you what to do have never been mainstream successes. How many people prefer Sim City over GTA? Myst over Final Fantasy?
There's been a lot of posts here lately about why otherwise linear games can't have a strong sandbox component. i agree here - too much direction turns me off after a while (why I quit WoW after two years of hardcore raiding), too little condemns a game to relative obscurity - I love Eve to death but I would be shocked if it ever broke a million subs.

I found EVE boring because it's too repetitive and while I love the harshness and the market, I just can't like a game that has no in game lore or content. All I found myself doing was the same boring agent mission over and over or mining over and over. Jumping everywhere is repetitive and boring because theres no exploration to it. Every station is the same and every gate is the same and belts are all the same. The whole game feels like the same few objects pasted over and over again on a picture background.

I mean I love the freedom it gives and the skill syatem, though I hate how it's time based because I want to progress at my own pace so wish it was a mix of SWG's too. However I just can't like a game that is sooo repetitive. People keep telling me it's all about the PVP and yet all that happens is you constantly get owned by groups and have to go back to repetitive tasks until you make up the money again. If you join a corp and manage to find a good one which takes far too much effort to do then you're forced to do the same things as before but with a group. If you get into 0.0 PVP then you have to wait around for ages until your corp leaders tell you the low down and fights are rarer. I want PVP 24/7 and don't want to have to wait for it.

My perfect mmorpg would be SWG mixed with WOW. Where it has all the mechanics of SWG but the world and quests of WOW.

Abrahmm · October 2008

Originally posted by Recant
Oh please. 'Staged battles are worthless', whereas uncontrolled battles the ratio of players on each side always differs, are good, because... it's more realistic? Great. So the battles are basically determined before they're even fought, but at least it's not 'staged'! God no!   It can't possibly be staged.   A competitive 'fight', with rules to make things fair? How terribly staged!   Molest me not with this, I want 'realistic' war, where people get steamrolled or are the ones doing the steamrolling, thus making all my abilities pointless because it becomes a numbers game anyway.
God forbid you have to use actual tactics instead of zerging. In poorly designed PvP games, numbers are the primary factor. But a good game will take all things, including numbers, into consideration. But we wouldn't have to think, plan, or be skilled in order win a battle in which we are out numbered. It would be a much better idea to stick us in a completely fair and even fight in which we don't have to think at all! Yay, let the zerging begin.
Great.
Sandbox games can have goals, yes I know. Add more goals though, more content, and suddenly the aforementioned pretentious cretins cannot seem to fathom that they're doing all these 'goals' or quests, and it's not sandboxy enough for them anymore.
Really? So, how many times has this happened? I don't know of very many sandbox games, and even less that stopped being sandbox. In fact, I can only thing of one sandbox game that lost it's sandbox elements, and that is SWG. But I don't see how the REMOVAL of 23 classes as adding more content. Please explain this.
Sandbox games, are inferior versions of the so-called 'theme-park' games because they don't have any bloody content.   Have you seen the missions in EVE?  There's about 20, and you repeat them over , and over, and over, and over again. The mission text.. for each one.... identical...
I don't think the missions are designed to be the main content of the game. I believe you are supposed to **GASP** create your own content! Through corporations, alliances, territorial control and war. I know, you have to socially interact with people in an MMO, which is taboo for your crowd, but it's what the game is for.
WoW is a sandbox game, if you ignore all of the great gameplay options. It is by your own limitations that you are calling these games sandbox.
Really? You can create your own class for your character? You can define, and redefine, what abilities, roles, and strengths your character has? WoW has a completely player driven crafter based economy? WoW doesn't restrict you by an imaginary number floating above your head that dictates all of the power your character has? Is there player housing? Do I have any options at all? No to all of the above.
People even seem to think that SWG was a Sandbox game!   HA. I've got one word for you... JEDI.
JEDI. That is the only refute you can come up with to try and claim SWG wasn't a sandbox game? Not only does it make no sense as to how Jedi made it not a sandbox, you give absolutely no explanation which makes me believe you don't really know either but felt you needed to say something about it.
You insult my intelligence by suggesting I find sandbox games too difficult to understand, but it is your intelligence I question because you cling to these awful terms such as sandbox, not realizing what they actually mean. No goals, no rules, just toys and imagination.
Those are the definition of a sandbox, to an extent, but not the definition of a sandbox game.
The horrifying truth is that todays MMORPGs are Sandbox games PLUS all the great content and advances.
No, today's MMOs are single player games with great content. There is little sandbox about them.
You may still use your imagination and do whatever you want, ignore the beaten path and choose your own playstyle. But the moment you're given the choice between something 'sandboxy' and 'theme park' you will choose theme park every time because it's simply more fun.
Fun is an opinion. If you enjoy being led by the hand throughout the entire game that the devs have laid out for you, get the gear your supposed to, get the levels while doing the quests in the order intended, then yes linear theme park games will be more fun for you. But if you like challenges, thinking for yourself, and socially interacting with the other peopel playing with you, then linear games won't be more fun.
And this is why I think people who crave sandbox games which have been mysteriously dissapearing around the same time developers started adding actual CONTENT TO THEM, are pretentious cretins.
You want a sandbox, play World of Warcraft. I am not kidding. Feel free to turn your nose up at me, but deep down, despite the fact it's everything you've despised for the last few years, you know that I'm right.
Wow... /shakes head.... I've played World of Warcraft. It's a fun game, and I enjoyed it for what it was. But to even imply that it is a sandbox game is dumbfounding. It's kind of funny though, I've seen quite a few people claim that after a while of being flooded with WoW clones, some of the lesser intelligent members of this board would probably start to claim WoW was a sandbox. I never thought this would happen so soon.
I want you guys to do a little homework. First of all, look up the definiton of the English word 'game'. Then look up the definition for 'sandbox'.   Not what you think they mean, what they are defined as by the English language.
You are forgetting the key point of the two words are COMBINED when applied to MMOs. We don't want just a sandbox, and we don't want just a game, but a SANDBOX GAME.

But, the more you post, the more your ignorance shows. You truely have no clue what you are talking about.

x_rast_x · October 2008

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid
I found EVE boring because it's too repetitive and while I love the harshness and the market, I just can't like a game that has no in game lore or content. All I found myself doing was the same boring agent mission over and over or mining over and over. Jumping everywhere is repetitive and boring because theres no exploration to it. Every station is the same and every gate is the same and belts are all the same. The whole game feels like the same few objects pasted over and over again on a picture background.
I mean I love the freedom it gives and the skill syatem, though I hate how it's time based because I want to progress at my own pace so wish it was a mix of SWG's too. However I just can't like a game that is sooo repetitive. People keep telling me it's all about the PVP and yet all that happens is you constantly get owned by groups and have to go back to repetitive tasks until you make up the money again. If you join a corp and manage to find a good one which takes far too much effort to do then you're forced to do the same things as before but with a group. If you get into 0.0 PVP then you have to wait around for ages until your corp leaders tell you the low down and fights are rarer. I want PVP 24/7 and don't want to have to wait for it.
My perfect mmorpg would be SWG mixed with WOW. Where it has all the mechanics of SWG but the world and quests of WOW.

I can respect this and that's a game I would try .

I guess my main problem with so-called 'linear' games is anymore it feels like you're playing a single-player game in a common environment. Nothing you do has any permanancy and your character development is limited to a progression that has already been set in stone in advance by the devs.

A game like Eve doesn't have these issues - but like you said, making money can be boring and the missions are repetitive and don't create any kind of storyline.

If companies want to make a *real* WoW-killer they need to look at resolving these issues - my money says the next big-time MMO success will have strong sandbox elements (player-driven storyline, freedom of character development, etc) while retaining easy-to-get into linear paths for those who choose to follow them (like, think in Eve if you could join the NPC corps and do WoW-style, non-repeating missions that follow a general storyline with some that require group efforts). Or not. That's the key.

Recant · October 2008

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Recant
Oh please. 'Staged battles are worthless', whereas uncontrolled battles the ratio of players on each side always differs, are good, because... it's more realistic? Great. So the battles are basically determined before they're even fought, but at least it's not 'staged'! God no!   It can't possibly be staged.   A competitive 'fight', with rules to make things fair? How terribly staged!   Molest me not with this, I want 'realistic' war, where people get steamrolled or are the ones doing the steamrolling, thus making all my abilities pointless because it becomes a numbers game anyway.
God forbid you have to use actual tactics instead of zerging. In poorly designed PvP games, numbers are the primary factor. But a good game will take all things, including numbers, into consideration. But we wouldn't have to think, plan, or be skilled in order win a battle in which we are out numbered. It would be a much better idea to stick us in a completely fair and even fight in which we don't have to think at all! Yay, let the zerging begin.
Great.
Sandbox games can have goals, yes I know. Add more goals though, more content, and suddenly the aforementioned pretentious cretins cannot seem to fathom that they're doing all these 'goals' or quests, and it's not sandboxy enough for them anymore.
Really? So, how many times has this happened? I don't know of very many sandbox games, and even less that stopped being sandbox. In fact, I can only thing of one sandbox game that lost it's sandbox elements, and that is SWG. But I don't see how the REMOVAL of 23 classes as adding more content. Please explain this.
Sandbox games, are inferior versions of the so-called 'theme-park' games because they don't have any bloody content.   Have you seen the missions in EVE?  There's about 20, and you repeat them over , and over, and over, and over again. The mission text.. for each one.... identical...
I don't think the missions are designed to be the main content of the game. I believe you are supposed to **GASP** create your own content! Through corporations, alliances, territorial control and war. I know, you have to socially interact with people in an MMO, which is taboo for your crowd, but it's what the game is for.
WoW is a sandbox game, if you ignore all of the great gameplay options. It is by your own limitations that you are calling these games sandbox.
Really? You can create your own class for your character? You can define, and redefine, what abilities, roles, and strengths your character has? WoW has a completely player driven crafter based economy? WoW doesn't restrict you by an imaginary number floating above your head that dictates all of the power your character has? Is there player housing? Do I have any options at all? No to all of the above.
People even seem to think that SWG was a Sandbox game!   HA. I've got one word for you... JEDI.
JEDI. That is the only refute you can come up with to try and claim SWG wasn't a sandbox game? Not only does it make no sense as to how Jedi made it not a sandbox, you give absolutely no explanation which makes me believe you don't really know either but felt you needed to say something about it.
You insult my intelligence by suggesting I find sandbox games too difficult to understand, but it is your intelligence I question because you cling to these awful terms such as sandbox, not realizing what they actually mean. No goals, no rules, just toys and imagination.
Those are the definition of a sandbox, to an extent, but not the definition of a sandbox game.
The horrifying truth is that todays MMORPGs are Sandbox games PLUS all the great content and advances.
No, today's MMOs are single player games with great content. There is little sandbox about them.
You may still use your imagination and do whatever you want, ignore the beaten path and choose your own playstyle. But the moment you're given the choice between something 'sandboxy' and 'theme park' you will choose theme park every time because it's simply more fun.
Fun is an opinion. If you enjoy being led by the hand throughout the entire game that the devs have laid out for you, get the gear your supposed to, get the levels while doing the quests in the order intended, then yes linear theme park games will be more fun for you. But if you like challenges, thinking for yourself, and socially interacting with the other peopel playing with you, then linear games won't be more fun.
And this is why I think people who crave sandbox games which have been mysteriously dissapearing around the same time developers started adding actual CONTENT TO THEM, are pretentious cretins.
You want a sandbox, play World of Warcraft. I am not kidding. Feel free to turn your nose up at me, but deep down, despite the fact it's everything you've despised for the last few years, you know that I'm right.
Wow... /shakes head.... I've played World of Warcraft. It's a fun game, and I enjoyed it for what it was. But to even imply that it is a sandbox game is dumbfounding. It's kind of funny though, I've seen quite a few people claim that after a while of being flooded with WoW clones, some of the lesser intelligent members of this board would probably start to claim WoW was a sandbox. I never thought this would happen so soon.
I want you guys to do a little homework. First of all, look up the definiton of the English word 'game'. Then look up the definition for 'sandbox'.   Not what you think they mean, what they are defined as by the English language.
You are forgetting the key point of the two words are COMBINED when applied to MMOs. We don't want just a sandbox, and we don't want just a game, but a SANDBOX GAME.

But, the more you post, the more your ignorance shows. You truely have no clue what you are talking about.

So a 'sandbox' game, is not really a game? When is a game, not a game? What do you think MMORPG is an acronymn for? Do you actually know what you want? Or are you just blasting games like WoW because it's the cool thing to do these days?

And stop reinventing the English language to suit your arguments.

Stormreaver · October 2008

Originally posted by Recant

So a 'sandbox' game, is not really a game? When is a game, not a game? What do you think MMORPG is an acronymn for? Do you actually know what you want? Or are you just blasting games like WoW because it's the cool thing to do these days?
And stop reinventing the English language to suit your arguments.

Wow Recant. First of all, don't change the subject to the English language or I will be forced to point out your gross misuse of comma rules and tense shifts. Abrahmm is completely destroying your argument and all you can do is point out his grammar mistakes? This is a discussion about the difference between a "linear" and "sandbox" MMO (even though we have completely highjacked the thread in doing so).

Point being, you clearly have no idea what defines a sandbox MMO. How can you honestly say that WoW is a sandbox game when there is clearly only one direction you can advance your character in? I think it was paulscott who asked the question, "Can you ignore combat(purely headbashing kind) and still evovle your character, and to what if any extent?" No. You cannot. So WoW is not a sandbox game.

Then you accuse sandbox games of not actually being games at all. Obviously a sandbox game is a game if multitudes of people play it and enjoy themselves doing so. Pointless argument. However, I will humor you with a proverbial saying we have about sanbox MMOs: "A linear MMO is just a game, a sandbox MMO is a world."

lapomme · October 2008

Originally posted by Recant

How to make a sandbox game in just a few easy steps:
1) Take a game that pretentious cretins like to call 'linear', such as WoW.
2) Remove goal orientated tasks, and over-arching storylines.
3) Remove PvP arenas and battlegrounds, instances and daily quests.
4) Remove soloing options and enforce class interdependancy.
5) Restrict the amount of gameplay options your chosen class/profession have, to make them more 'unique'.
Congratulations, you now have a bare husk of a game where players need to entertain themselves to have fun, thus creating the fabled 'sandbox' games of yesterday and making the miserable cretins happy for 2 months before they quit because they added extra content and gameplay options, 'WoW-ifying' the game.

It's funny how little you know. I'll leave it at that.

I picked WoW by the way. While I am a believer that it destroyed the MMO genre, it was the best themepark MMO on that list that I had quite a bit of fun on. Some of those shouldn't be options though.

Abrahmm · October 2008

Originally posted by Recant

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Recant
Oh please. 'Staged battles are worthless', whereas uncontrolled battles the ratio of players on each side always differs, are good, because... it's more realistic? Great. So the battles are basically determined before they're even fought, but at least it's not 'staged'! God no!   It can't possibly be staged.   A competitive 'fight', with rules to make things fair? How terribly staged!   Molest me not with this, I want 'realistic' war, where people get steamrolled or are the ones doing the steamrolling, thus making all my abilities pointless because it becomes a numbers game anyway.
God forbid you have to use actual tactics instead of zerging. In poorly designed PvP games, numbers are the primary factor. But a good game will take all things, including numbers, into consideration. But we wouldn't have to think, plan, or be skilled in order win a battle in which we are out numbered. It would be a much better idea to stick us in a completely fair and even fight in which we don't have to think at all! Yay, let the zerging begin.
Great.
Sandbox games can have goals, yes I know. Add more goals though, more content, and suddenly the aforementioned pretentious cretins cannot seem to fathom that they're doing all these 'goals' or quests, and it's not sandboxy enough for them anymore.
Really? So, how many times has this happened? I don't know of very many sandbox games, and even less that stopped being sandbox. In fact, I can only thing of one sandbox game that lost it's sandbox elements, and that is SWG. But I don't see how the REMOVAL of 23 classes as adding more content. Please explain this.
Sandbox games, are inferior versions of the so-called 'theme-park' games because they don't have any bloody content.   Have you seen the missions in EVE?  There's about 20, and you repeat them over , and over, and over, and over again. The mission text.. for each one.... identical...
I don't think the missions are designed to be the main content of the game. I believe you are supposed to **GASP** create your own content! Through corporations, alliances, territorial control and war. I know, you have to socially interact with people in an MMO, which is taboo for your crowd, but it's what the game is for.
WoW is a sandbox game, if you ignore all of the great gameplay options. It is by your own limitations that you are calling these games sandbox.
Really? You can create your own class for your character? You can define, and redefine, what abilities, roles, and strengths your character has? WoW has a completely player driven crafter based economy? WoW doesn't restrict you by an imaginary number floating above your head that dictates all of the power your character has? Is there player housing? Do I have any options at all? No to all of the above.
People even seem to think that SWG was a Sandbox game!   HA. I've got one word for you... JEDI.
JEDI. That is the only refute you can come up with to try and claim SWG wasn't a sandbox game? Not only does it make no sense as to how Jedi made it not a sandbox, you give absolutely no explanation which makes me believe you don't really know either but felt you needed to say something about it.
You insult my intelligence by suggesting I find sandbox games too difficult to understand, but it is your intelligence I question because you cling to these awful terms such as sandbox, not realizing what they actually mean. No goals, no rules, just toys and imagination.
Those are the definition of a sandbox, to an extent, but not the definition of a sandbox game.
The horrifying truth is that todays MMORPGs are Sandbox games PLUS all the great content and advances.
No, today's MMOs are single player games with great content. There is little sandbox about them.
You may still use your imagination and do whatever you want, ignore the beaten path and choose your own playstyle. But the moment you're given the choice between something 'sandboxy' and 'theme park' you will choose theme park every time because it's simply more fun.
Fun is an opinion. If you enjoy being led by the hand throughout the entire game that the devs have laid out for you, get the gear your supposed to, get the levels while doing the quests in the order intended, then yes linear theme park games will be more fun for you. But if you like challenges, thinking for yourself, and socially interacting with the other peopel playing with you, then linear games won't be more fun.
And this is why I think people who crave sandbox games which have been mysteriously dissapearing around the same time developers started adding actual CONTENT TO THEM, are pretentious cretins.
You want a sandbox, play World of Warcraft. I am not kidding. Feel free to turn your nose up at me, but deep down, despite the fact it's everything you've despised for the last few years, you know that I'm right.
Wow... /shakes head.... I've played World of Warcraft. It's a fun game, and I enjoyed it for what it was. But to even imply that it is a sandbox game is dumbfounding. It's kind of funny though, I've seen quite a few people claim that after a while of being flooded with WoW clones, some of the lesser intelligent members of this board would probably start to claim WoW was a sandbox. I never thought this would happen so soon.
I want you guys to do a little homework. First of all, look up the definiton of the English word 'game'. Then look up the definition for 'sandbox'.   Not what you think they mean, what they are defined as by the English language.
You are forgetting the key point of the two words are COMBINED when applied to MMOs. We don't want just a sandbox, and we don't want just a game, but a SANDBOX GAME.

But, the more you post, the more your ignorance shows. You truely have no clue what you are talking about.

So a 'sandbox' game, is not really a game? When is a game, not a game? What do you think MMORPG is an acronymn for? Do you actually know what you want? Or are you just blasting games like WoW because it's the cool thing to do these days?

And stop reinventing the English language to suit your arguments.

Your ignorance just shows even more by how desperate and empty your argument has become. If I were you, I would just stop now before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

metalhead980 · October 2008

Originally posted by Stormreaver

This is a discussion about the difference between a "linear" and "sandbox" MMO (even though we have completely highjacked the thread in doing so).

LOL! its all good, Personally I put these stupid Poll threads up so interesting conversation could spawn from them.

good to see something spawn from this thread other than "wow suxs" posts.

paulscott · October 2008

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by Stormreaver

This is a discussion about the difference between a "linear" and "sandbox" MMO (even though we have completely highjacked the thread in doing so).

LOL! its all good, Personally I put these stupid Poll threads up so interesting conversation could spawn from them.

good to see something spawn from this thread other than "wow suxs" posts.

The OP calling all is threads stupid... Now I'm really starting to see the forum everything.

wolfmann · October 2008

Sadly, you didn't list "none"

N1ghtsta1ker · October 2008

Personally I'd rather go to a theme park for a day than play in a sandbox... to each his own I guess

creepyt · October 2008

Originally posted by Stormreaver

Originally posted by Recant

So a 'sandbox' game, is not really a game? When is a game, not a game? What do you think MMORPG is an acronymn for? Do you actually know what you want? Or are you just blasting games like WoW because it's the cool thing to do these days?
And stop reinventing the English language to suit your arguments.

Wow Recant. First of all, don't change the subject to the English language or I will be forced to point out your gross misuse of comma rules and tense shifts. Abrahmm is completely destroying your argument and all you can do is point out his grammar mistakes? This is a discussion about the difference between a "linear" and "sandbox" MMO (even though we have completely highjacked the thread in doing so).

Point being, you clearly have no idea what defines a sandbox MMO. How can you honestly say that WoW is a sandbox game when there is clearly only one direction you can advance your character in? I think it was paulscott who asked the question, "Can you ignore combat(purely headbashing kind) and still evovle your character, and to what if any extent?" No. You cannot. So WoW is not a sandbox game.

Then you accuse sandbox games of not actually being games at all. Obviously a sandbox game is a game if multitudes of people play it and enjoy themselves doing so. Pointless argument. However, I will humor you with a proverbial saying we have about sanbox MMOs: "A linear MMO is just a game, a sandbox MMO is a world."

You do realize he was saying that WoW is not a sandbox game right?

zethcarn · October 2008

Originally posted by Recant

You want a sandbox, play World of Warcraft. I am not kidding. Feel free to turn your nose up at me, but deep down, despite the fact it's everything you've despised for the last few years, you know that I'm right.

That's interesting.

Recant · October 2008

Originally posted by Stormreaver

Originally posted by Recant

So a 'sandbox' game, is not really a game? When is a game, not a game? What do you think MMORPG is an acronymn for? Do you actually know what you want? Or are you just blasting games like WoW because it's the cool thing to do these days?
And stop reinventing the English language to suit your arguments.

Wow Recant. First of all, don't change the subject to the English language or I will be forced to point out your gross misuse of comma rules and tense shifts. Abrahmm is completely destroying your argument and all you can do is point out his grammar mistakes? This is a discussion about the difference between a "linear" and "sandbox" MMO (even though we have completely highjacked the thread in doing so).

Point being, you clearly have no idea what defines a sandbox MMO. How can you honestly say that WoW is a sandbox game when there is clearly only one direction you can advance your character in? I think it was paulscott who asked the question, "Can you ignore combat(purely headbashing kind) and still evovle your character, and to what if any extent?" No. You cannot. So WoW is not a sandbox game.

Then you accuse sandbox games of not actually being games at all. Obviously a sandbox game is a game if multitudes of people play it and enjoy themselves doing so. Pointless argument. However, I will humor you with a proverbial saying we have about sanbox MMOs: "A linear MMO is just a game, a sandbox MMO is a world."

Your rage is misdirected, I was not pointing out his grammar mistakes at all. If you actually read the post, you would understand we were actually debating semantics - but the definition of the word 'game' doesn't change just because you put sandbox in front of it, it's merely being more specific.

As for completely destroying my arguments, not even close. You don't even know what the argument is about, so how would you know? Go troll elsewhere, or stay relevant to the discussion.

Alfurras · October 2008

Linear MMOs are steaming piles of... horseshit!

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