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Proof as to the fact that the NGE game has no future
If the NGE had any long term future in LEC and SOE's plans they'd be working on the things that absolutely MUST happen for it to be viable. None of this is on their agenda:
1. Graphics engine upgrade, a MUST for an older game to continue to compete. See EVE Online...
2. Combat engine re-write. Even if it's to stay much as it is, the whole thing is so frigging buggy and unreliable that it needs to be re-written from scratch instead of running the spaghetti kludge code they have now.
3. UI re-write. The UI is just as buggy as the combat engine, broken, ugly, and inefficient.
4. Server revamps, new server hardware. One thing EVE did recently was re-do their server code so that nodes now run in all 64 bit code so as to address a massive amount of memory. Another part of this is something called "stackless IO" which is a new network management method. The result: Single nodes able to handle MASSIVE battles. When I mean massive, an EVE battle in 0.0 space can have 1,000 combatants in a single solar system... They are still working out bugs on these, but such battles are now possible and before it crashed (I was in one) the battle had VERY LITTLE lag.
To do battles on the SWG scale should require far less effort than that.
Again, those are four things that absolutely MUST occur if SWG is to live to 2010 and beyond (and to be honest, even if it were still pre CU most of that would still be needed) and it's not on the agenda.
Comments
While certainly wouldn't complain if they could find a way to improve the graphics, I don't think they're in that dire need of upgrading - the graphics in SWG is still better then some of the newer games coming out now:
No 4 is something I see as the main priority. As is quite evident on Chilastra, the servers can't currently handle the size of the PvP battles that are becoming more common these days, especially outside of places like Restuss.
Hmm, servers need upgraded due to the increasing size of the PVP battles that are becoming more common. Sounds like the game population is growing.
You must be making this up, everyone bitter SWG vet who posts on these forums says they 'know' that the game is dying.
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
First off i'd like to say that i'm not a fan of the NGE, i gave it the benefit of the doubt for 4-6 months but wasn't impressed mainly because they removed the need for crafters. That said and out of the way here's my responses to the OP..
1. Graphics, in all honesty i've always though SWG's graphics were the best for an MMO as too little and people lose interest, too much and you get laggy worlds with zero chance of PvP. Current and old graphics of SWG are fine..
2. Can't comment on with not playing the game for so long.
3. The current UI was brought in with the NGE.. nuff said..
4. This point seems more like something that should be in the EVE forum not here.
OP you seem to like what EVE has done recently, what puzzles me is how you can relay it to SWG with them being completely different games.. Graphics wise SWG is fine, EVE is all about space so there are always improvements that can be done (nebula, asteroid fields etc).. Hundreds and possibly thousands PvP'ing on one server in SWG is somethig that NEVER happened, there may have been a hundred or so sometimes but i doubt any more than 30-50 per faction at any one time..
Personally the only thing that will "help" SWG will be the re-introduction of crafters being a main force in the game, decay needs to be put back in like it was before and loot drops need to be made so that they are good but not as good as what top level crafters can experiment and make. by removing decay as it was and bringing out better loot than crafted items they destroyed the games economy as there are no return customers. Combat i found was better as i wasn't a fan of point and click only and the new system might not have changed that but it enhanced it so you actually had to do something.. Jedi as a start profession was also a bad idea but they did screw it up so they weren't the alpha class anymore, Jedi's are more like the old Swordsman now in a way.
I think in the end that if they re-introduced the old style decay and need for crafters as well as making top level crafted items the best again then the game could last longer than i think it will now, i might even resub to it again if these changes were done..
We knew SWG has no future back in 2005 and look 3 years later..... the game still hasn't had the fixes it needs.
I can agree with most of those, City of Heroes/Villains got a graphics improvement with issue 7 back in 2006, they added PhysX effects and it's quite nice now. The SWG servers are god awful and lags even on the best connection/machine in an empty place like Theed or Dant MO, they had to replace Bria's server twice over the psat 5 years. As for the UI, someone was having an acid trip when they thought that UI was an upgrade over the old one.
But regardless of any of these fixes, SWG won't win back enough people anyways, it's going to be another piece of monkey feces on the station access pass along with PoTBS, Matrix online, Planetside and pretty soon Vanguard for years to come.
1) The graphics are fine and actually look rather nice in some areas. Not enough reason for an overhaul. Maybe the engine that drives it, but not the graphics themselves. Not every game gets a full blown graphics upgrade every so many years.
2) It is hopeless to rewrite the combat engine. Honestly there is no way to salvage a system tacked ontop of an engine that was rushed to market before it was ready. There is just way to much spaghetti code for it to remain fixable.
3) Fixing the UI is possible, but they haven't even done that in EQ2 so I wouldn't hold my breath
4) All that needs to be said is yes.
Right now there just are not enough subscribers to justify the costs of most of those demands and the game has little chance of growing with the recent bioware/LA announcement. The return on investment looks very bleak for those options so they most likely will not happen.
I quite agree.
My list of things though are items that are MANDATORY if you expect to still be running this game 2-3 years from now. CCP didn't upgrade their graphics because they were bad today (the old graphics weren't in fact) but to give the game another 4-5 years. Same for SWG, the graphics aren't horrible today, but they will be in another couple years.
Everything else more or less relates to current game deficiencies that also need fixing without question. Combat specials and heals still fail to fire and activate cooldown. Targeting is still screwed up. Mobs still shoot through anything, and you can't shoot back. Clearly the whole combat engine needs a complete rewrite from top to bottom if it's to ever work. And that's even if it's not redesigned, it still needs a rewrite.
As for lag in pvp, I was pointing out what CCP did to solve similar problems of lag. The technology exists today to virtually eliminate server side lag in battles to the scale of SWG. Keep in mind this was made worse due to the NGE's vast increase in combat speed which meant massive increase in network packets and in server /client interactions.
The fact that no one is willing to talk long term, no one is willing to do more than offer 'we believe the games can co exist" platitudes says a lot more than they are saying. What they are saying is that "the games will co exist as long as the NGE stays above a certain sub number without the improvement investment needed to compete with modern games" which is impossible, and of course will not happen.
Uhm, did you play the old game of SWG (pre-CU)? While for sure there were not up to a thousand players in pvp battles back then, but pvp battles with 100+ players were relative common. Even smaller servers with low to medium population had fairly sizable (100+ players) battles at regular intervals. On occations there could even be multiple large scale battles (on different planets) going on at the same time.
Now I never played on the large servers like Ahazi and Bria during pru-CU, but from what I heard there were some real epic sized battles that could last for hours. Perhaps someone playing on those servers could fill in on that?
What is really sad is that for each "change" (CU, NGE) SWG went through, the performance of the game went down.
As for restoring the crafting to what it was, sorry it won't help! It's the NGE that has to go!
Uhm, did you play the old game of SWG (pre-CU)? While for sure there were not up to a thousand players in pvp battles back then, but pvp battles with 100+ players were relative common. Even smaller servers with low to medium population had fairly sizable (100+ players) battles at regular intervals. On occations there could even be multiple large scale battles (on different planets) going on at the same time.
Now I never played on the large servers like Ahazi and Bria during pru-CU, but from what I heard there were some real epic sized battles that could last for hours. Perhaps someone playing on those servers could fill in on that?
What is really sad is that for each "change" (CU, NGE) SWG went through, the performance of the game went down.
As for restoring the crafting to what it was, sorry it won't help! It's the NGE that has to go!
Quite so, back in June-August 2004 was the peak time of pvp activity on Lowca (and May-Aug 2005 for Tarquinas), every single day during those times were absolutely insane, I couldn't log on without hearing about large scale pvp fights ALL over the galaxy such as Lok, Dant, Dath (at the *old* village!), player cities and faction bases. I loaded into Dath sci OP on Lowca in the middle of July 2004 and there were almost 200 people fighting it out, I lagged once in a while but boy was it fun and my pvp rating went up to 1800+ from that.
Uhm, did you play the old game of SWG (pre-CU)? While for sure there were not up to a thousand players in pvp battles back then, but pvp battles with 100+ players were relative common. Even smaller servers with low to medium population had fairly sizable (100+ players) battles at regular intervals. On occations there could even be multiple large scale battles (on different planets) going on at the same time.
Now I never played on the large servers like Ahazi and Bria during pru-CU, but from what I heard there were some real epic sized battles that could last for hours. Perhaps someone playing on those servers could fill in on that?
What is really sad is that for each "change" (CU, NGE) SWG went through, the performance of the game went down.
As for restoring the crafting to what it was, sorry it won't help! It's the NGE that has to go!
I started playing just after the first CU m8, so from then on till 4-6 months after the NGE.. biggest PvP i saw (Kauri server btw) was around 52 imps vs 40+ rebs.
On Bloodfin, which was always the most active PVP server, fights involving 2-300 were not at all uncommon.
And the server lagged out severely. Last fights I was in before I quit (NGE era) was maybe 40-50, and the server still lagged severely.
Similar sized fights in the CU era were not at all a problem. This is one reason why I fault the radical increase in combat speed for the lag.
I agree with the OP , the graphics in SWG NGE now are very dated , the characters look like sunken faced drug addicts and the movement is still very jerky to the point of being comical .
I quite agree.
My list of things though are items that are MANDATORY if you expect to still be running this game 2-3 years from now. CCP didn't upgrade their graphics because they were bad today (the old graphics weren't in fact) but to give the game another 4-5 years. Same for SWG, the graphics aren't horrible today, but they will be in another couple years.
Everything else more or less relates to current game deficiencies that also need fixing without question. Combat specials and heals still fail to fire and activate cooldown. Targeting is still screwed up. Mobs still shoot through anything, and you can't shoot back. Clearly the whole combat engine needs a complete rewrite from top to bottom if it's to ever work. And that's even if it's not redesigned, it still needs a rewrite.
As for lag in pvp, I was pointing out what CCP did to solve similar problems of lag. The technology exists today to virtually eliminate server side lag in battles to the scale of SWG. Keep in mind this was made worse due to the NGE's vast increase in combat speed which meant massive increase in network packets and in server /client interactions.
The fact that no one is willing to talk long term, no one is willing to do more than offer 'we believe the games can co exist" platitudes says a lot more than they are saying. What they are saying is that "the games will co exist as long as the NGE stays above a certain sub number without the improvement investment needed to compete with modern games" which is impossible, and of course will not happen.
from what year are you basing your info? I havent heard about a failed heal for MONTHS...maybe even years. Whats screwed up with targeting?
Until we hear more, i'm not sure we can say whats going to happen. It sounds, so far, that TOR is going to be less robust and less flexible than many here would like. Don't get me wrong, I would be thrilled to have SW game with everything we all want...but I'm not optimistic YET
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where are the facts that "prove" your case, just see your opinon.
When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.
{ Mod Delete }
LOL Yeah. I wonder what his next predicted date for swg's shutdown will be? Personally, I think it will keep going until either shortly before or shortly after the new SW mmo is released, which is probably along the lines of around 2 years.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
{ Mod Delete }
LOL Yeah. I wonder what his next predicted date for swg's shutdown will be? Personally, I think it will keep going until either shortly before or shortly after the new SW mmo is released, which is probably along the lines of around 2 years.
I can't predict the exact day, but I can tell you when it will close:
Whenever SWTOR is released.
Even Smed wont' guarantee that the game has any definite future past that day:
www.massively.com/2008/10/27/soe-responds-to-the-announcement-of-star-wars-the-old-republic/1#c15145992
John Smedley: I think since there was no date announced with the game, it's safe to assume it will be released far enough in the future that is not any immediate issue for Galaxies players. We do not know when that game is going to launch, I don't believe they know when that game is going to launch. For the foreseeable future, Galaxies is quite safe. How long that is, I think has more to do with how and when that game comes along.
I think the graphics are good enough. Could they be better....sure. But if they improved the server technology or how the game utilizes current hardware maybe we'd have the same looking game but with great performance, including during large battles. That would rock.
Even assuming they wanted to keep the NGE, they could clean up the UI and the game would be much better. Also, reinstituting decay and making crafters important again might go along way to bringing back some depth to the game.
If the population was there I might atleast try a trial resub. Problem is my perception of their populations is that it is low, and that the game is on a downward spiral. Hence, investing time in their game would be frivolous.
I want to Like SOE and hate on LA because I know that if it wasn't for LA then the NGE wouldn't of happened. Smedley made it clear in another interview that they havn't enjoyed working with LA because they don't understand the market. However SOE has turned all their other mmorpgs into shit aswel making it a case of i hate both these companies lol.
I am glad that Obraik will be there to keep the SWG ship running as long as possible while the rest of us will be enjoying TOR. I would hate for him to violate his personal ethics and play a game (TOR) that he has spent years bashing and a leave a game (SWG) that he has spent years blindly following.
Go read the SWG official boards. It's full of hate and denial for the Bioware MMO. I, for one, don't want to share the MMO I play with anyone who will blindly defend a game as poorly designed as SWG. I'm glad they will be staing in SWG and away from TOR.
Tecmo Bowl.
It's full of hate and denial for the Bioware MMO? BULLSHIT. The naysayers are being largely drowned out by those looking forward to the game.
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
While I'd say the graphics are good, I'd also say how they process them is horrible... there's all kinds of random crap chunking, glitching, and mutating as you travel in the game... it's just ugly.
I don't think I bashed the game. I was against the idea of hyping people up about something that may or may not have been true and was pretty much based on rumours. Honestly, I'm glad it's turned out to be real and hope that you and others like you can find something to play that makes you happy.
We are afterall, talking about games. There's no need to get personal about it.
It's full of hate and denial for the Bioware MMO? BULLSHIT. The naysayers are being largely drowned out by those looking forward to the game.
Got to agree here. Far more, both in game and on the boards, are looking forward to it. Most people I know in game plan to play both for as long as there are two games.
Will that be how it all works out? Not sure. I know I'll be in SWTOR as soon as they let me in, and I'll be in SWG until they turn out the lights.
fishermage.blogspot.com
From IGN;
We think what most Galaxies want to hear, first and foremost from SOE, what the Old Republic announcement means for them. What does the announcement of The Old Republic mean for Star Wars Galaxies players?
John Smedley:
I think since there was no date announced with the game, it's safe to assume it will be released far enough in the future that is not any immediate issue for Galaxies players. We do not know when that game is going to launch, I don't believe they know when that game is going to launch. For the foreseeable future, Galaxies is quite safe. How long that is, I think has more to do with how and when that game comes along.
At some point we'll make a decision about when and if to sunset Galaxies, but as of right now we don't have any plans to do that.
That interview makes it sound like SOE has no more clue how long SWG is going to exist than we do. I can't believe that will instil confidence in the existing playerbase.