Lol (I seriously laughed out loud at this...), no someone just needs to get what he paid for. Actually, I receive plenty of hugs (not to mention other things) from my wife on a regular basis, who very often gets to go out to dinner and sit face to face with me. Besides...my wife was more pissed off than I was about the downtime seeing that she plays much more than me. But thanks for the concern.
Good deal, I'm glad it was received in the spirit it was intended. If it helps, I'm in the same boat with the wife and I. Last time we were at dinner, guess what we talked about? O_o . She says, "So...when are you going to pull me through Sunken Temple?" Doh. Well, I have a pally that needs to go, so okay. The family that plays together will never be LFG. Also glad to hear about the marital bliss, we need more of it as a society instead of this 40% divorce rate stuff.
Right on Fa+e, I couldn't have said it better myself, though I tried. This is our only out, since not only can't we play, but the damn forums are down too?...Come on having an issue is one thing, but keeping us completely in the dark is another, as well as the bold-faced lies they keep telling us. I feel like a kid asking what sex is and where do babies come from, and being told different stories from my parents. I'm not a kid anymore Blizz don't treat me as such.
You might be happier in the dark tho...
LIke what if they told everyone they ran a script yesterday to work on mails from gold farmers. But somehow deleted all the mail in the mail system.. and found out that they had no backup of the data. So they are trying to "the next few days" to find a way to somehow get it back...
Or that today when they went to remove the "pvp items" from players inventories.. that they accidently deleted everyones inventory... and don't have a way to restore the data...
I mean if tonight they bring the servers up to play and say "well your inventories are gone but we'll get them back in the next few days"... I'd have to wonder.
*note* I'm not saying this is what happened.... it was a dramatic example.
Instead, I would echo the sentiment that there are a number of large companies that manage to meet their SLA's becuase they have invested an adequate amount in their infrastructure and staffing.
The difference here is we are talking about a game and not some company that really can't afford to have any downtime. Companies like Verizon and AT&T invest a ton of money into their networks for realiability with redundant backups and automatically rerouting switches and whatnot because they have to. Do you know what Mastercard will do if the Verizon network goes down for a couple hours? They will take their business to some other telecommunications company and we would lose millions if not billions of dollars. Blizzard doesn't have this same sort of problem, or at least they aren't worried about that problem.
Not saying that it doesn't matter, just that you can't compare apples to oranges and say that it should be the same. I'd compare Blizzard more to like your cable company. Yes, everyone has a cow when their cable is out for a couple hours, but it happens. Why don't they have backups and whatnot to keep the network going 24x7? Because they don't need to. If you the consumer is inconvenienced a few hours a couple times a year, you probably aren't going to drop their service. Oh sure you will call and complain and you may even get a small refund on your bill, but that's all you can expect. The same is true with Blizzard.
Why don't they have backups and whatnot to keep the network going 24x7? Because they don't need to. If you the consumer is inconvenienced a few hours a couple times a year, you probably aren't going to drop their service. Oh sure you will call and complain and you may even get a small refund on your bill, but that's all you can expect. The same is true with Blizzard.
This is a good point, there's a fine line between risk mitigation and cost management. A good question would be: Would you rather pay $14.99 a month with rare downtimes for a few hours or $29.99 to ensure you have no disconnects with a back-up system? In our Wal-Mart society, we like it fast and cheap. When it breaks, we buy another one.
Instead, I would echo the sentiment that there are a number of large companies that manage to meet their SLA's becuase they have invested an adequate amount in their infrastructure and staffing.
The difference here is we are talking about a game and not some company that really can't afford to have any downtime.
Trimmed some of the quote to address, what I feel, is the important part. While I echo other people's sentiment, I did not state anything more specific then "large companies". This for the pure fact that that is about as specific as you need to get. A large company that has invested adequately in infrastructure and staffing will likely be able to maintain a content customer base. It is just a simple rule that applies to any business. If a company has grown too quickly, which is something Blizzard saw early on, then it is certainly understandable that they need time to ramp up to the unexpected demand. The recent issues, by all accounts, were not issues of demand though.
The difference, when you mention a major ISP, phone provider, or other 'infrastructure' type service, is that other large companies buy products from them and have much more leverage then a handful of disgruntled consumers at street level. Ultimately, you pay for a product, be it a game, phone service, or something else. You expect to be able to use to product/service you purchased. If you are unable to use that product/service, I think it is human nature to at least want to know why. I am not saying full disclosure along the lines of "Bob tripped over a power cord.", but at least something that, as another poster pointed out, doesn't mistake all their customers for being kids.
I guess, my confusion stems from the fact Blizzard has done all this before. They have released an expansion pack. They have tested patches. They have had millions of customers for some time now. They have also been lackluster with the communication in the past (with some exceptions). So that is what is irritating. Nothing they are doing is new to them. They've been through this process before. Why all the problems this time? Just a rhetorical question....
Now, as I said, generally, I've been pretty content and don't plan to cancel over this. It just seems silly that people would come in and demand people "stop being disappointed this minute!" whenever someone makes a post expressing displessure over the outtage. Not that you do this specifically mind you. I am all for finding something else to do until an issue is resolved, but I understand those who are angry and cannot access the WoW forums to express this. This place becomes the next logical outlet for many.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Instead, I would echo the sentiment that there are a number of large companies that manage to meet their SLA's becuase they have invested an adequate amount in their infrastructure and staffing.
The difference here is we are talking about a game and not some company that really can't afford to have any downtime.
Trimmed some of the quote to address, what I feel, is the important part. While I echo other people's sentiment, I did not state anything more specific then "large companies". This for the pure fact that that is about as specific as you need to get. A large company that has invested adequately in infrastructure and staffing will likely be able to maintain a content customer base. It is just a simple rule that applies to any business. If a company has grown too quickly, which is something Blizzard saw early on, then it is certainly understandable that they need time to ramp up to the unexpected demand. The recent issues, by all accounts, were not issues of demand though.
The difference, when you mention a major ISP, phone provider, or other 'infrastructure' type service, is that other large companies buy products from them and have much more leverage then a handful of disgruntled consumers at street level. Ultimately, you pay for a product, be it a game, phone service, or something else. You expect to be able to use to product/service you purchased. If you are unable to use that product/service, I think it is human nature to at least want to know why. I am not saying full disclosure along the lines of "Bob tripped over a power cord.", but at least something that, as another poster pointed out, doesn't mistake all their customers for being kids.
I guess, my confusion stems from the fact Blizzard has done all this before. They have released an expansion pack. They have tested patches. They have had millions of customers for some time now. They have also been lackluster with the communication in the past (with some exceptions). So that is what is irritating. Nothing they are doing is new to them. They've been through this process before. Why all the problems this time? Just a rhetorical question....
Now, as I said, generally, I've been pretty content and don't plan to cancel over this. It just seems silly that people would come in and demand people "stop being disappointed this minute!" whenever someone makes a post expressing displessure over the outtage. Not that you do this specifically mind you. I am all for finding something else to do until an issue is resolved, but I understand those who are angry and cannot access the WoW forums to express this. This place becomes the next logical outlet for many.
It's happened all before and yet you still bitch about it.
Trimmed some of the quote to address, what I feel, is the important part. While I echo other people's sentiment, I did not state anything more specific then "large companies". This for the pure fact that that is about as specific as you need to get. A large company that has invested adequately in infrastructure and staffing will likely be able to maintain a content customer base. It is just a simple rule that applies to any business. So do you expect the same compentancy from your Cable TV provider? Satelite TV? How about your Internet provider? Cell phone service? Even your phone service? None of these "large companies" provide 24X7 uninterrupted service. Just last night my cable went out for a few minutes for no apparent reason whatsoever. They weren't doing ANYTHING. No upgrades for a major release. No storm in the area. No new equipment. Nothing. Just dropped and didn't come back for around 10 minutes. And I didn't call the Police. I didn't call the Fire Department. I didn't even call the cable company. I just sat and waited 10 minutes till it came back on. The difference, when you mention a major ISP, phone provider, or other 'infrastructure' type service, is that other large companies buy products from them and have much more leverage then a handful of disgruntled consumers at street level. And yet they STILL can't provide uninterrupted service. Why should you hold Blizzard to a higher standard? Ultimately, you pay for a product, be it a game, phone service, or something else. You expect to be able to use to product/service you purchased. If you are unable to use that product/service, I think it is human nature to at least want to know why. I am not saying full disclosure along the lines of "Bob tripped over a power cord.", but at least something that, as another poster pointed out, doesn't mistake all their customers for being kids. And Blizzard attempts to give you that information. There is a forum for just this purpose. Sometimes the forums have issues too, so there is customer service which you can call or send an e-mail. I guess, my confusion stems from the fact Blizzard has done all this before. They have released an expansion pack. They have tested patches. They have had millions of customers for some time now. And the cable company has been in business how long? Phones? Internet? I venture to guess these companies have been in business a hell of a lot longer than even Blizzard has been around let along WoW. Now, as I said, generally, I've been pretty content and don't plan to cancel over this. It just seems silly that people would come in and demand people "stop being disappointed this minute!" whenever someone makes a post expressing displessure over the outtage. Not that you do this specifically mind you. I am all for finding something else to do until an issue is resolved, but I understand those who are angry and cannot access the WoW forums to express this. This place becomes the next logical outlet for many. And it also becomes the place for many that are not actually sitting at home twiddling their fingers while waiting for the servers to come back up to go and see what people are saying on the forums and respond to them. They are not directly inconvenienced, or perhaps they are, but they see that Blizzard is by and large a very reputable company and has given them many hours of enjoyment and so they are somewhat more sympathetic towards them. They have a right to see what the people are saying and voice their displeasure with people as well, don't they? The forums work both ways. They allow people with a problem to blow off some steam and they allow those that have a problem with those blowing off some steam to blow off some steam.
Trimmed some of the quote to address, what I feel, is the important part. While I echo other people's sentiment, I did not state anything more specific then "large companies". This for the pure fact that that is about as specific as you need to get. A large company that has invested adequately in infrastructure and staffing will likely be able to maintain a content customer base. It is just a simple rule that applies to any business. So do you expect the same compentancy from your Cable TV provider? Satelite TV? How about your Internet provider? Cell phone service? Even your phone service? None of these "large companies" provide 24X7 uninterrupted service. Just last night my cable went out for a few minutes for no apparent reason whatsoever. They weren't doing ANYTHING. No upgrades for a major release. No storm in the area. No new equipment. Nothing. Just dropped and didn't come back for around 10 minutes. And I didn't call the Police. I didn't call the Fire Department. I didn't even call the cable company. I just sat and waited 10 minutes till it came back on. The difference, when you mention a major ISP, phone provider, or other 'infrastructure' type service, is that other large companies buy products from them and have much more leverage then a handful of disgruntled consumers at street level. And yet they STILL can't provide uninterrupted service. Why should you hold Blizzard to a higher standard? Ultimately, you pay for a product, be it a game, phone service, or something else. You expect to be able to use to product/service you purchased. If you are unable to use that product/service, I think it is human nature to at least want to know why. I am not saying full disclosure along the lines of "Bob tripped over a power cord.", but at least something that, as another poster pointed out, doesn't mistake all their customers for being kids. And Blizzard attempts to give you that information. There is a forum for just this purpose. Sometimes the forums have issues too, so there is customer service which you can call or send an e-mail. I guess, my confusion stems from the fact Blizzard has done all this before. They have released an expansion pack. They have tested patches. They have had millions of customers for some time now. And the cable company has been in business how long? Phones? Internet? I venture to guess these companies have been in business a hell of a lot longer than even Blizzard has been around let along WoW. Now, as I said, generally, I've been pretty content and don't plan to cancel over this. It just seems silly that people would come in and demand people "stop being disappointed this minute!" whenever someone makes a post expressing displessure over the outtage. Not that you do this specifically mind you. I am all for finding something else to do until an issue is resolved, but I understand those who are angry and cannot access the WoW forums to express this. This place becomes the next logical outlet for many. And it also becomes the place for many that are not actually sitting at home twiddling their fingers while waiting for the servers to come back up to go and see what people are saying on the forums and respond to them. They are not directly inconvenienced, or perhaps they are, but they see that Blizzard is by and large a very reputable company and has given them many hours of enjoyment and so they are somewhat more sympathetic towards them. They have a right to see what the people are saying and voice their displeasure with people as well, don't they? The forums work both ways. They allow people with a problem to blow off some steam and they allow those that have a problem with those blowing off some steam to blow off some steam.
I'm sorry your cable went out for a few minutes, however, had it gone out a couple days, most people would find that unacceptable. Over the past few weeks, Blizzard has had a number of "few minute" and I don't believe I have complained about any of those. I consider myself to have fairly reasonable expectations of service, regardless of the product, and I can certainly understand when there is a minor issue.
To be honest, I can't recall the last time Comcast had an outtage here. I use them for phone, cable and internet. Maybe I am just lucky, but they have met my expectations and I would certainly expect another company that i pay to do the same.
To the point of being able to use Blizzard's forum, it seems common that if the game is down, the forum is inaccessible. This may be to sheer volume or related to the overall problem. I did call when they had problems in the past, and was told it was being worked on. Despite asking for more details, I was basically read the script from their little news blurb. So yes, in principle you could certainly call, but experience has proven that to be a fairly fruitless excercise.
You certainly have a point that some of these other large companies have been around a while, but then, the other point is that they are not working with new technology and neither is Blizzard. At the heart of it, they use servers, internet protocols, and various software. They have been writing software for a farily long time so I can't say that is new to them. The current issues appeared to be related to software, or db related, and not capacity as I stated. I suppose, to expect them to be experts in the field they currently dominate is a bit much?
Now certainly anyone can say what they want. Your post demonastrates that some people take the time to think through their response. The flip side is represented by the "QQ more" and "stfu" type comments. Sure if you want to debate whether Blizzard handled the recent outtage properly, or whether there should be a reasonable expectation of service then great. Further, what a reasonable expectation of service would be. I suppose, i was just blowing off steam about people blowing off steam about people blowing off steam. Seems a self-perpetuating cycle eh?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I'm sorry your cable went out for a few minutes, however, had it gone out a couple days, most people would find that unacceptable. But if they had told me in advance that they were about to do a major upgrade of my service and that it might be out for an extended period of time and apologized for the inconvenience while it was off and knocked off a couple days of time off my bill as compensation, I would have understood. See the difference? Over the past few weeks, Blizzard has had a number of "few minute" and I don't believe I have complained about any of those. I consider myself to have fairly reasonable expectations of service, regardless of the product, and I can certainly understand when there is a minor issue. This is different. They are preparing for a major new release of software. Pretty much everyone has known it was coming. They announced in advance that the servers would be down for extended maintenance and they continued to make updates when the time went longer than they anticipated. I'm not saying you have to just grin an bear it, but at the same time this was not totally unexpected or shocking to anyone. To be honest, I can't recall the last time Comcast had an outtage here. I use them for phone, cable and internet. I had Comcast for awhile and normally had good service, but there were times when I would miss anywhere from 2 to 8 hours of service. I also paid them approximately $50 a month for internet access. Maybe I am just lucky, but they have met my expectations and I would certainly expect another company that i pay to do the same. And if they don't? What's your recourse? You complain. I got no problem with you complaining, just don't expect me to be sympathetic because it happens to all of us from time to time. It's expected. It happens. To the point of being able to use Blizzard's forum, it seems common that if the game is down, the forum is inaccessible. This may be to sheer volume or related to the overall problem. Not may be, It IS sheer volume. The game servers being down has nothing at all to do with the forum issues except that the forum activity increases about a hundred fold when the servers are down. I did call when they had problems in the past, and was told it was being worked on. Despite asking for more details, I was basically read the script from their little news blurb. So yes, in principle you could certainly call, but experience has proven that to be a fairly fruitless excercise. What do you want them to do? Ask for your help on fixing the problem? You certainly have a point that some of these other large companies have been around a while, but then, the other point is that they are not working with new technology and neither is Blizzard. At the heart of it, they use servers, internet protocols, and various software. They have been writing software for a farily long time so I can't say that is new to them. The current issues appeared to be related to software, or db related, and not capacity as I stated. I suppose, to expect them to be experts in the field they currently dominate is a bit much? Truth is you have NO idea whatsoever what the problem is and neither do I and Blizzard isn't going to tell us. We can speculate all we want, doesn't mean a damn thing. Now certainly anyone can say what they want. Your post demonastrates that some people take the time to think through their response. The flip side is represented by the "QQ more" and "stfu" type comments. Sure if you want to debate whether Blizzard handled the recent outtage properly, or whether there should be a reasonable expectation of service then great. Further, what a reasonable expectation of service would be. I suppose, i was just blowing off steam about people blowing off steam about people blowing off steam. Seems a self-perpetuating cycle eh? Welcome to the forums.
You do realise they are running hundreds upon hundreds of servers, and preparing for the biggest expansion launch, even bigger than BC, and you are complaining about a downtime, which is maintenance and you miss some hours?? They dont deal with a few thousaand players and a10s of servers, they deal with hundreds upon hundreds of servers in different languages, ranging for russia to south america. { Mod Edit }
You dont prepare for an expansion/patch/update on a live server. You do it a bit on dev server, but mostly on test server. This failure most likely is a result of a human error. Or more likely several human errors, becuase in a big company like Bliz, there should be protocols in place limiting anyone's access to a point where the mistake would result in minimal damage. Only small companies cant afford to hire additional personnel, so they stack work and responcibilities on few people - and if one person screwes up, bad things can happen.
Better clean up your act Blizz. I am very disappointed in them lately.
You do realise they are running hundreds upon hundreds of servers, and preparing for the biggest expansion launch, even bigger than BC, and you are complaining about a downtime, which is maintenance and you miss some hours?? They dont deal with a few thousaand players and a10s of servers, they deal with hundreds upon hundreds of servers in different languages, ranging for russia to south america. { Mod Edit }
You dont prepare for an expansion/patch/update on a live server. You do it a bit on dev server, but mostly on test server. This failure most likely is a result of a human error. Or more likely several human errors, becuase in a big company like Bliz, there should be protocols in place limiting anyone's access to a point where the mistake would result in minimal damage. Only small companies cant afford to hire additional personnel, so they stack work and responcibilities on few people - and if one person screwes up, bad things can happen.
Better clean up your act Blizz. I am very disappointed in them lately.
And that's what Blizzard did, they updated a test server first. Now it's time for them to update all the live servers with those same updates. Just because they didn't have an issue on the couple of test servers, doesn't mean they won't have different issues on the several hundred live servers they have to update. You have no idea whatsoever what caused this failure and speculation on it is foolish.
Cable, phone etc are regulated services. If they fail to provide "level of service" and consumers complain (which they don't have to do on a forum and get troll replies) then the regulatory services kick in. Then again that's why you have regulatory fees added into the cost of those services.
With an MMO your only option if unhappy is to cancel. Don't bring up the BBB .. because I don't think the BBB has ever done much of anything. An attorney general office contact will probably do more than writing to the BBB will ever do.
Regardless its not in an MMO companies best interest to piss off subscribers. They don't do it on purpose and if they do.. then they deserve to lose the subscribers and the income.
The only thing that pisses me off with MMO companies.. is when things go bad... they clam up.. don't provide information and its like they are protecting some super secret information from "the bad guys".
By the time they gave any information the servers were close to being back up... they could have given that information much earlier.. and people would have at least known wtf was going on...
Then started posting about how the mail was probably lost.... much sooner!!!
I just wish people would get this worked up over issues that really matter and not some game that his been down a while.
I was frustrated too and wanted to play yesterday but there are alternatives: read a book, play another game, watch TV, go outside, etc...
So true. Issues that we should be having strong feelings about: genocide, domestic violence, drug abuse, disease, poverty, abortion (kills about 850,000 per year http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5212a1.htm ), drunk driving, suicide, and so forth. Although it's healthy to take a break from these concerns now and then, perhaps it would do us well to go outside, watch the news, or call a friend or familiy member on the phone to ask how they're doing.
I'm surprised to see so many people this upset over the game they otherwise post that they hate on other threads. Have you seen the ratings on this game? It's # 20, so if you want "top quality" and "no downtime" why not play # 1? Try saying something good about the game once and a while, it may be additive to compliment and might actually translate into being nice to other people on a daily basis as well.
Im just gonna go ahead and ask for a mod edit on abortion. That could lead to such a huge off topic debate its not even funny.
Btw dont talk about abortion on a mmo site. I could easily go into how that is not ture. But its all a matter of opinion.
And that leads to me being ontopic. Yea downtime sucks. Hopefully blizzard gives you guys compensation for this. If not i seriously recomend flamin it up in their forums. Get enough people to complain they will start handing out free game time.
Cable, phone etc are regulated services. If they fail to provide "level of service" and consumers complain (which they don't have to do on a forum and get troll replies) then the regulatory services kick in. Then again that's why you have regulatory fees added into the cost of those services.
I don't know how true that is. I'm pretty sure that the phone companies anyway deregulated a long time ago. If you don't like your phone service you can switch to another one for the most part. Maybe not all parts of the country are like that, but most of them are. Maybe some other services are like that, water, gas etc, but I don't think that internet, cable or phone are like that.
Now there's always the better business bureau, although I would love to be able to listen in on the phone conversation with someone complaining about Blizzard with them.
I'm sorry your cable went out for a few minutes, however, had it gone out a couple days, most people would find that unacceptable. But if they had told me in advance that they were about to do a major upgrade of my service and that it might be out for an extended period of time and apologized for the inconvenience while it was off and knocked off a couple days of time off my bill as compensation, I would have understood. See the difference? Over the past few weeks, Blizzard has had a number of "few minute" and I don't believe I have complained about any of those. I consider myself to have fairly reasonable expectations of service, regardless of the product, and I can certainly understand when there is a minor issue. This is different. They are preparing for a major new release of software. Pretty much everyone has known it was coming. They announced in advance that the servers would be down for extended maintenance and they continued to make updates when the time went longer than they anticipated. I'm not saying you have to just grin an bear it, but at the same time this was not totally unexpected or shocking to anyone. To be honest, I can't recall the last time Comcast had an outtage here. I use them for phone, cable and internet. I had Comcast for awhile and normally had good service, but there were times when I would miss anywhere from 2 to 8 hours of service. I also paid them approximately $50 a month for internet access. Maybe I am just lucky, but they have met my expectations and I would certainly expect another company that i pay to do the same. And if they don't? What's your recourse? You complain. I got no problem with you complaining, just don't expect me to be sympathetic because it happens to all of us from time to time. It's expected. It happens. To the point of being able to use Blizzard's forum, it seems common that if the game is down, the forum is inaccessible. This may be to sheer volume or related to the overall problem. Not may be, It IS sheer volume. The game servers being down has nothing at all to do with the forum issues except that the forum activity increases about a hundred fold when the servers are down. I did call when they had problems in the past, and was told it was being worked on. Despite asking for more details, I was basically read the script from their little news blurb. So yes, in principle you could certainly call, but experience has proven that to be a fairly fruitless excercise. What do you want them to do? Ask for your help on fixing the problem? You certainly have a point that some of these other large companies have been around a while, but then, the other point is that they are not working with new technology and neither is Blizzard. At the heart of it, they use servers, internet protocols, and various software. They have been writing software for a farily long time so I can't say that is new to them. The current issues appeared to be related to software, or db related, and not capacity as I stated. I suppose, to expect them to be experts in the field they currently dominate is a bit much? Truth is you have NO idea whatsoever what the problem is and neither do I and Blizzard isn't going to tell us. We can speculate all we want, doesn't mean a damn thing. Now certainly anyone can say what they want. Your post demonastrates that some people take the time to think through their response. The flip side is represented by the "QQ more" and "stfu" type comments. Sure if you want to debate whether Blizzard handled the recent outtage properly, or whether there should be a reasonable expectation of service then great. Further, what a reasonable expectation of service would be. I suppose, i was just blowing off steam about people blowing off steam about people blowing off steam. Seems a self-perpetuating cycle eh? Welcome to the forums.
Previous to comcast, I had a DSL provider. They would often communicate that they were doing maintenance and it would often run over their estimated time. Sure, they would compensate the time their service was unavailable, but much like WoW, there were limited windows of time that I could use said service and the ability to use was more appealing then compensation for not being able to use. Eventually, it became enough of an issue that I sought out another provider.
As far as this being different, Blizzard has had major releases, large patches, and any number of other scenarios regarding their products. Again this is not new to them and, had they said "we're going to be down for 1 1/2 - 2 days" I don't think there would be much issue. Instead, they said extended maintenance which they missed the window on. Then, after maintenance they had problems. Having problems will happen, but to keep telling people "we'll be up in one hour", "we'll be up in three hours", "we'll be have an update in an hour", "we have no ETA" is a bit rediculous (in my opinion of course).
Now the forum thing, it is well known that people will tr yto hit their forums when the servers are down and that they are usually overwhelemd at that point. However, had i said just "sheer volume" someone would have inevitably argued that it was tied to the problems...so that was covering bases.
Ultimately, I can only theorize, like anyone else who is not involved in actually fixing the problem, as to the actual root cause. I certainly do have an idea as to what the problem, however it's validaity is certainly debatable. After all, what is speculation without ideas?
I can understnad those who say it's no big deal and I was in this camp at the start. But after reading the past couple days worth of threads, I've come down on the side of those who think this is pretty poor performance by Blizzard. I certainly don't expect sympathy and don't believe that I asked for it anywhere in my post. I also don't expect Blizzard to really care about my opinion, but as you point out, these forums are here for just that and clearly, people care enough about others' opinions to keep these threads going.
As it goes, I've been here for a couple years now. I am familiar with how the threads go and am generally not motivated to throw my hat into a conversation since there is normally a pretty specific template most threads follow. This topic after reading it for the past couple days, combined with the impending release of WoTLK, motivated me to comment. It's nice to see reasoned, opposing views and I am certainly one who can agree to disagree.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
As it goes, I've been here for a couple years now. I am familiar with how the threads go and am generally not motivated to throw my hat into a conversation since there is normally a pretty specific template most threads follow. This topic after reading it for the past couple days, combined with the impending release of WoTLK, motivated me to comment. It's nice to see reasoned, opposing views and I am certainly one who can agree to disagree.
Fair enough. The thing I found most shocking in all of this is that WoW still managed somehow to retain their #1 ranking with Xfire yesterday. Apparently somebody was able to play.
Fair enough. The thing I found most shocking in all of this is that WoW still managed somehow to retain their #1 ranking with Xfire yesterday. Apparently somebody was able to play. http://www.xfire.com/games/wow/World_of_Warcraft/
... or the Xfire data is biased because WoW is giving cash to Xfire for free advertisement (you can't believe the number of idiots who refer to Xfire for a game's wellness as if it's related to gameplay) and they forgot to change it for yesterday ?
----------------------------- Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
Fair enough. The thing I found most shocking in all of this is that WoW still managed somehow to retain their #1 ranking with Xfire yesterday. Apparently somebody was able to play. http://www.xfire.com/games/wow/World_of_Warcraft/
... or the Xfire data is biased because WoW is giving cash to Xfire for free advertisement (you can't believe the number of idiots who refer to Xfire for a game's wellness as if it's related to gameplay) and they forgot to change it for yesterday ?
Of course not.
EU had no trouble at all. It was a typical server restore problem in the US.
Meaning even EU alone holds out WOW in first place in playing hours. 3 years most played PC game in the western world (and the only one paid as a subscription game).
Good try Xtort. Keep up the conspiracy theories ) Perhaps the sales charts on amazon, the yearly reports of Vivendi and the national games sales are all manipulated by Columbian drug dealers to promote Wow.
Just silly.
Oh BTW, yesterday I saw even the most avid WAR fans lining up in the queues. And guess what they all admitted the competition for WOW was nowhere. They just bought the AoC and WAR games to fill up the waiting gap.
I don't need Xfire to knew that. Playing AoC or WAR for a few hours is more than enough to realize this.
Although am glad the expansion is out, I got ISP drops (which are a very very rare event) about every 30 minutes last night and 40 minute queue with 1,000+ in line on my main server where I have my 70. ISP dropped 3 times but there was no loss to anything other than internet (cable model, cable in house worked and everything). It looks like there was either a bottleneck from all the users or booting out by the game due to the high volume. I don't blame Blizzard, I'm glad they had a huge release, but am hopeful the wrinkles can be ironed out soon.
... or the Xfire data is biased because WoW is giving cash to Xfire for free advertisement (you can't believe the number of idiots who refer to Xfire for a game's wellness as if it's related to gameplay) and they forgot to change it for yesterday ?
Of course not.
EU had no trouble at all. It was a typical server restore problem in the US.
Meaning even EU alone holds out WOW in first place in playing hours. 3 years most played PC game in the western world (and the only one paid as a subscription game).
Good try Xtort. Keep up the conspiracy theories ) Perhaps the sales charts on amazon, the yearly reports of Vivendi and the national games sales are all manipulated by Columbian drug dealers to promote Wow.
Just silly.
Oh BTW, yesterday I saw even the most avid WAR fans lining up in the queues. And guess what they all admitted the competition for WOW was nowhere. They just bought the AoC and WAR games to fill up the waiting gap.
I don't need Xfire to knew that. Playing AoC or WAR for a few hours is more than enough to realize this.
I play games all the time, but never use Xfire. And a lot of people do that, to me it's just another way to get distracted. Ever had somebody ask you stuff on MSN during a raid or anything? Msn + Xfire might be double that bad...
+ amazon barely gets used outside the us (perhaps the uk, not sure). So you can't look at that for good information...
I'm afraid the best way is.. To look at the community yourself! If you find a lot of cities empty, then it's pretty likely there aren't that many players.
Edit: typo ftw
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.
Comments
Good deal, I'm glad it was received in the spirit it was intended. If it helps, I'm in the same boat with the wife and I. Last time we were at dinner, guess what we talked about? O_o . She says, "So...when are you going to pull me through Sunken Temple?" Doh. Well, I have a pally that needs to go, so okay. The family that plays together will never be LFG. Also glad to hear about the marital bliss, we need more of it as a society instead of this 40% divorce rate stuff.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/
Holy Crap. All the realms are up. Good Luck everyone. Nice chattin and bitchin with ya...=)
JonnyT
You might be happier in the dark tho...
LIke what if they told everyone they ran a script yesterday to work on mails from gold farmers. But somehow deleted all the mail in the mail system.. and found out that they had no backup of the data. So they are trying to "the next few days" to find a way to somehow get it back...
Or that today when they went to remove the "pvp items" from players inventories.. that they accidently deleted everyones inventory... and don't have a way to restore the data...
I mean if tonight they bring the servers up to play and say "well your inventories are gone but we'll get them back in the next few days"... I'd have to wonder.
*note* I'm not saying this is what happened.... it was a dramatic example.
What? Servers are up? I'm at work and can't play! >_< Don't leave my guys, doonnnn'ttt leeeeeeavvveee meeeeee. /cry
http://www.allaboutgod.com/
The difference here is we are talking about a game and not some company that really can't afford to have any downtime. Companies like Verizon and AT&T invest a ton of money into their networks for realiability with redundant backups and automatically rerouting switches and whatnot because they have to. Do you know what Mastercard will do if the Verizon network goes down for a couple hours? They will take their business to some other telecommunications company and we would lose millions if not billions of dollars. Blizzard doesn't have this same sort of problem, or at least they aren't worried about that problem.
Not saying that it doesn't matter, just that you can't compare apples to oranges and say that it should be the same. I'd compare Blizzard more to like your cable company. Yes, everyone has a cow when their cable is out for a couple hours, but it happens. Why don't they have backups and whatnot to keep the network going 24x7? Because they don't need to. If you the consumer is inconvenienced a few hours a couple times a year, you probably aren't going to drop their service. Oh sure you will call and complain and you may even get a small refund on your bill, but that's all you can expect. The same is true with Blizzard.
This is a good point, there's a fine line between risk mitigation and cost management. A good question would be: Would you rather pay $14.99 a month with rare downtimes for a few hours or $29.99 to ensure you have no disconnects with a back-up system? In our Wal-Mart society, we like it fast and cheap. When it breaks, we buy another one.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/
The difference here is we are talking about a game and not some company that really can't afford to have any downtime.
Trimmed some of the quote to address, what I feel, is the important part. While I echo other people's sentiment, I did not state anything more specific then "large companies". This for the pure fact that that is about as specific as you need to get. A large company that has invested adequately in infrastructure and staffing will likely be able to maintain a content customer base. It is just a simple rule that applies to any business. If a company has grown too quickly, which is something Blizzard saw early on, then it is certainly understandable that they need time to ramp up to the unexpected demand. The recent issues, by all accounts, were not issues of demand though.
The difference, when you mention a major ISP, phone provider, or other 'infrastructure' type service, is that other large companies buy products from them and have much more leverage then a handful of disgruntled consumers at street level. Ultimately, you pay for a product, be it a game, phone service, or something else. You expect to be able to use to product/service you purchased. If you are unable to use that product/service, I think it is human nature to at least want to know why. I am not saying full disclosure along the lines of "Bob tripped over a power cord.", but at least something that, as another poster pointed out, doesn't mistake all their customers for being kids.
I guess, my confusion stems from the fact Blizzard has done all this before. They have released an expansion pack. They have tested patches. They have had millions of customers for some time now. They have also been lackluster with the communication in the past (with some exceptions). So that is what is irritating. Nothing they are doing is new to them. They've been through this process before. Why all the problems this time? Just a rhetorical question....
Now, as I said, generally, I've been pretty content and don't plan to cancel over this. It just seems silly that people would come in and demand people "stop being disappointed this minute!" whenever someone makes a post expressing displessure over the outtage. Not that you do this specifically mind you. I am all for finding something else to do until an issue is resolved, but I understand those who are angry and cannot access the WoW forums to express this. This place becomes the next logical outlet for many.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
The difference here is we are talking about a game and not some company that really can't afford to have any downtime.
Trimmed some of the quote to address, what I feel, is the important part. While I echo other people's sentiment, I did not state anything more specific then "large companies". This for the pure fact that that is about as specific as you need to get. A large company that has invested adequately in infrastructure and staffing will likely be able to maintain a content customer base. It is just a simple rule that applies to any business. If a company has grown too quickly, which is something Blizzard saw early on, then it is certainly understandable that they need time to ramp up to the unexpected demand. The recent issues, by all accounts, were not issues of demand though.
The difference, when you mention a major ISP, phone provider, or other 'infrastructure' type service, is that other large companies buy products from them and have much more leverage then a handful of disgruntled consumers at street level. Ultimately, you pay for a product, be it a game, phone service, or something else. You expect to be able to use to product/service you purchased. If you are unable to use that product/service, I think it is human nature to at least want to know why. I am not saying full disclosure along the lines of "Bob tripped over a power cord.", but at least something that, as another poster pointed out, doesn't mistake all their customers for being kids.
I guess, my confusion stems from the fact Blizzard has done all this before. They have released an expansion pack. They have tested patches. They have had millions of customers for some time now. They have also been lackluster with the communication in the past (with some exceptions). So that is what is irritating. Nothing they are doing is new to them. They've been through this process before. Why all the problems this time? Just a rhetorical question....
Now, as I said, generally, I've been pretty content and don't plan to cancel over this. It just seems silly that people would come in and demand people "stop being disappointed this minute!" whenever someone makes a post expressing displessure over the outtage. Not that you do this specifically mind you. I am all for finding something else to do until an issue is resolved, but I understand those who are angry and cannot access the WoW forums to express this. This place becomes the next logical outlet for many.
It's happened all before and yet you still bitch about it.
I'm sorry your cable went out for a few minutes, however, had it gone out a couple days, most people would find that unacceptable. Over the past few weeks, Blizzard has had a number of "few minute" and I don't believe I have complained about any of those. I consider myself to have fairly reasonable expectations of service, regardless of the product, and I can certainly understand when there is a minor issue.
To be honest, I can't recall the last time Comcast had an outtage here. I use them for phone, cable and internet. Maybe I am just lucky, but they have met my expectations and I would certainly expect another company that i pay to do the same.
To the point of being able to use Blizzard's forum, it seems common that if the game is down, the forum is inaccessible. This may be to sheer volume or related to the overall problem. I did call when they had problems in the past, and was told it was being worked on. Despite asking for more details, I was basically read the script from their little news blurb. So yes, in principle you could certainly call, but experience has proven that to be a fairly fruitless excercise.
You certainly have a point that some of these other large companies have been around a while, but then, the other point is that they are not working with new technology and neither is Blizzard. At the heart of it, they use servers, internet protocols, and various software. They have been writing software for a farily long time so I can't say that is new to them. The current issues appeared to be related to software, or db related, and not capacity as I stated. I suppose, to expect them to be experts in the field they currently dominate is a bit much?
Now certainly anyone can say what they want. Your post demonastrates that some people take the time to think through their response. The flip side is represented by the "QQ more" and "stfu" type comments. Sure if you want to debate whether Blizzard handled the recent outtage properly, or whether there should be a reasonable expectation of service then great. Further, what a reasonable expectation of service would be. I suppose, i was just blowing off steam about people blowing off steam about people blowing off steam. Seems a self-perpetuating cycle eh?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
WoW sucks doesn't it? Everyone should quit.
--------------------------------
Darkfall: December or vaporware!
You dont prepare for an expansion/patch/update on a live server. You do it a bit on dev server, but mostly on test server. This failure most likely is a result of a human error. Or more likely several human errors, becuase in a big company like Bliz, there should be protocols in place limiting anyone's access to a point where the mistake would result in minimal damage. Only small companies cant afford to hire additional personnel, so they stack work and responcibilities on few people - and if one person screwes up, bad things can happen.
Better clean up your act Blizz. I am very disappointed in them lately.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
You dont prepare for an expansion/patch/update on a live server. You do it a bit on dev server, but mostly on test server. This failure most likely is a result of a human error. Or more likely several human errors, becuase in a big company like Bliz, there should be protocols in place limiting anyone's access to a point where the mistake would result in minimal damage. Only small companies cant afford to hire additional personnel, so they stack work and responcibilities on few people - and if one person screwes up, bad things can happen.
Better clean up your act Blizz. I am very disappointed in them lately.
And that's what Blizzard did, they updated a test server first. Now it's time for them to update all the live servers with those same updates. Just because they didn't have an issue on the couple of test servers, doesn't mean they won't have different issues on the several hundred live servers they have to update. You have no idea whatsoever what caused this failure and speculation on it is foolish.
I find most of the arguements pointless.
Cable, phone etc are regulated services. If they fail to provide "level of service" and consumers complain (which they don't have to do on a forum and get troll replies) then the regulatory services kick in. Then again that's why you have regulatory fees added into the cost of those services.
With an MMO your only option if unhappy is to cancel. Don't bring up the BBB .. because I don't think the BBB has ever done much of anything. An attorney general office contact will probably do more than writing to the BBB will ever do.
Regardless its not in an MMO companies best interest to piss off subscribers. They don't do it on purpose and if they do.. then they deserve to lose the subscribers and the income.
The only thing that pisses me off with MMO companies.. is when things go bad... they clam up.. don't provide information and its like they are protecting some super secret information from "the bad guys".
By the time they gave any information the servers were close to being back up... they could have given that information much earlier.. and people would have at least known wtf was going on...
Then started posting about how the mail was probably lost.... much sooner!!!
So true. Issues that we should be having strong feelings about: genocide, domestic violence, drug abuse, disease, poverty, abortion (kills about 850,000 per year http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5212a1.htm ), drunk driving, suicide, and so forth. Although it's healthy to take a break from these concerns now and then, perhaps it would do us well to go outside, watch the news, or call a friend or familiy member on the phone to ask how they're doing.
I'm surprised to see so many people this upset over the game they otherwise post that they hate on other threads. Have you seen the ratings on this game? It's # 20, so if you want "top quality" and "no downtime" why not play # 1? Try saying something good about the game once and a while, it may be additive to compliment and might actually translate into being nice to other people on a daily basis as well.
Im just gonna go ahead and ask for a mod edit on abortion. That could lead to such a huge off topic debate its not even funny.
Btw dont talk about abortion on a mmo site. I could easily go into how that is not ture. But its all a matter of opinion.
And that leads to me being ontopic. Yea downtime sucks. Hopefully blizzard gives you guys compensation for this. If not i seriously recomend flamin it up in their forums. Get enough people to complain they will start handing out free game time.
I don't know how true that is. I'm pretty sure that the phone companies anyway deregulated a long time ago. If you don't like your phone service you can switch to another one for the most part. Maybe not all parts of the country are like that, but most of them are. Maybe some other services are like that, water, gas etc, but I don't think that internet, cable or phone are like that.
Now there's always the better business bureau, although I would love to be able to listen in on the phone conversation with someone complaining about Blizzard with them.
Previous to comcast, I had a DSL provider. They would often communicate that they were doing maintenance and it would often run over their estimated time. Sure, they would compensate the time their service was unavailable, but much like WoW, there were limited windows of time that I could use said service and the ability to use was more appealing then compensation for not being able to use. Eventually, it became enough of an issue that I sought out another provider.
As far as this being different, Blizzard has had major releases, large patches, and any number of other scenarios regarding their products. Again this is not new to them and, had they said "we're going to be down for 1 1/2 - 2 days" I don't think there would be much issue. Instead, they said extended maintenance which they missed the window on. Then, after maintenance they had problems. Having problems will happen, but to keep telling people "we'll be up in one hour", "we'll be up in three hours", "we'll be have an update in an hour", "we have no ETA" is a bit rediculous (in my opinion of course).
Now the forum thing, it is well known that people will tr yto hit their forums when the servers are down and that they are usually overwhelemd at that point. However, had i said just "sheer volume" someone would have inevitably argued that it was tied to the problems...so that was covering bases.
Ultimately, I can only theorize, like anyone else who is not involved in actually fixing the problem, as to the actual root cause. I certainly do have an idea as to what the problem, however it's validaity is certainly debatable. After all, what is speculation without ideas?
I can understnad those who say it's no big deal and I was in this camp at the start. But after reading the past couple days worth of threads, I've come down on the side of those who think this is pretty poor performance by Blizzard. I certainly don't expect sympathy and don't believe that I asked for it anywhere in my post. I also don't expect Blizzard to really care about my opinion, but as you point out, these forums are here for just that and clearly, people care enough about others' opinions to keep these threads going.
As it goes, I've been here for a couple years now. I am familiar with how the threads go and am generally not motivated to throw my hat into a conversation since there is normally a pretty specific template most threads follow. This topic after reading it for the past couple days, combined with the impending release of WoTLK, motivated me to comment. It's nice to see reasoned, opposing views and I am certainly one who can agree to disagree.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Fair enough. The thing I found most shocking in all of this is that WoW still managed somehow to retain their #1 ranking with Xfire yesterday. Apparently somebody was able to play.
http://www.xfire.com/games/wow/World_of_Warcraft/
... or the Xfire data is biased because WoW is giving cash to Xfire for free advertisement (you can't believe the number of idiots who refer to Xfire for a game's wellness as if it's related to gameplay) and they forgot to change it for yesterday ?
-----------------------------
Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
... or the Xfire data is biased because WoW is giving cash to Xfire for free advertisement (you can't believe the number of idiots who refer to Xfire for a game's wellness as if it's related to gameplay) and they forgot to change it for yesterday ?
Of course not.
EU had no trouble at all. It was a typical server restore problem in the US.
Meaning even EU alone holds out WOW in first place in playing hours. 3 years most played PC game in the western world (and the only one paid as a subscription game).
Good try Xtort. Keep up the conspiracy theories
)
Perhaps the sales charts on amazon, the yearly reports of Vivendi and the national games sales are all manipulated by Columbian drug dealers to promote Wow.
Just silly.
Oh BTW, yesterday I saw even the most avid WAR fans lining up in the queues. And guess what they all admitted the competition for WOW was nowhere. They just bought the AoC and WAR games to fill up the waiting gap.
I don't need Xfire to knew that. Playing AoC or WAR for a few hours is more than enough to realize this.
The only downtime OUR server has had was the day before release. /shrug
Big deal.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Although am glad the expansion is out, I got ISP drops (which are a very very rare event) about every 30 minutes last night and 40 minute queue with 1,000+ in line on my main server where I have my 70. ISP dropped 3 times but there was no loss to anything other than internet (cable model, cable in house worked and everything). It looks like there was either a bottleneck from all the users or booting out by the game due to the high volume. I don't blame Blizzard, I'm glad they had a huge release, but am hopeful the wrinkles can be ironed out soon.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/
... or the Xfire data is biased because WoW is giving cash to Xfire for free advertisement (you can't believe the number of idiots who refer to Xfire for a game's wellness as if it's related to gameplay) and they forgot to change it for yesterday ?
Of course not.
EU had no trouble at all. It was a typical server restore problem in the US.
Meaning even EU alone holds out WOW in first place in playing hours. 3 years most played PC game in the western world (and the only one paid as a subscription game).
Good try Xtort. Keep up the conspiracy theories
)
Perhaps the sales charts on amazon, the yearly reports of Vivendi and the national games sales are all manipulated by Columbian drug dealers to promote Wow.
Just silly.
Oh BTW, yesterday I saw even the most avid WAR fans lining up in the queues. And guess what they all admitted the competition for WOW was nowhere. They just bought the AoC and WAR games to fill up the waiting gap.
I don't need Xfire to knew that. Playing AoC or WAR for a few hours is more than enough to realize this.
I play games all the time, but never use Xfire. And a lot of people do that, to me it's just another way to get distracted. Ever had somebody ask you stuff on MSN during a raid or anything?
Msn + Xfire might be double that bad...
+ amazon barely gets used outside the us (perhaps the uk, not sure). So you can't look at that for good information...
I'm afraid the best way is.. To look at the community yourself! If you find a lot of cities empty, then it's pretty likely there aren't that many players.
Edit: typo ftw
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.