Do not support WOW

Sovrath · November 2008

Originally posted by Jadedfire

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Jadedfire

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Jadedfire

Interesting speech you wrote there. It is a shame you are among the ones who are delirious, gullible, and blind to the fact that just because it has 12 millions subs, doesnt mean it is a great game. More numbers doesnt neccessarily mean that something is bettter or indeed worth anything.
Centuries ago, people strongly believed in the earth being flat. Only a few actually believed that it was not and indeed we can see in our time, the minority was right. Also, take for example McDonalds, it serves over a billion customers worldwide. But does that make it great? Not at all. I can list so many other restaurants that are much better, by standards, quality, taste, and even worth compared to price.
So you keep on believing that your "WoW World" actually pleases you and the majority agree with you. But in actual reality, many play it because they follow the same path as the majority population does. Not because it is great and fulfilling game to play. It is being ignorant and delusional to believe otherwise.
Of course, this is just how I feel about the subject. Everyone has their right to their own thoughts and feelings.

He's not saying that at all. He's saying that he plays because he enjoys it.

Well youi know what? I have extra money, I'm just going to purchase a copy tomorrow in celebration of this thread.

Thank you for proving my point. Following the crowd is always easier than to disagree and stand for something different.

I don't give a damn about proving your point. I'm for choice no matter what that choice is. Sounds to me like you are one of those arrogant peopel who "know what's best" for people because you feel you are more right.

Just for that I'm buying two copies.

I never once said I "know what's best" for people. I simply implied how I felt about the matter and what it seemed like from my point of view. If you do not like to hear what others have to say, even when you do not agree with them, maybe you shouldnt be on a forum site, my friend.

Furthermore, if you choose to go out and blow all your hard-earned money on multiple copies of World of Warcraft, then that is your problem, not mine. Have fun!

I have no problem with listening to people's well thought out and presented views. But I don't presume to dictate to people what they should consider quality.

And that is what this thread is about. If you see my appended post you will learn that I pretty much skirt the edge of what is considered interesting and accepable to the general populace. And yet I still support those who enjoy whatever it is that they enjoy. Be it Hello Kitty, Porn, Pushing Daisies, Arrowsmith, Yes, C.P.E. Bach or Disney.

I woulld never be so arrogant as to tell people not to do something becasue it doesn't fit into my world view.

JK-Kanosi · November 2008

Originally posted by argos5

Frankly, a new continent with more dungeons, only 1 new BG, 1 new Profession, and 1 Hero Class, in this WotLK expansion... seems to be only half of the content potential that was released in Burning Crusade. Burning Crusade had 2 new regions (Draenei/Blood Elf), 2 new races (already mentioned), new continent (Outland), 1 new BG, 1 new profession, and your standard extra raids.

If you compare WotLK and BC, your content for WotLK is gimped compared to BC. And I'm sure people enjoy getting ripped by Blizzard's wizening idea of how to effectively milk people for their money. I think CCP does a more effective job at deserving peoples' money without paying for expansion packs like Blizzard does.

I mean, look at Starcraft 2. Their reason for splitting it into 3 games was supposedly for "more content". I smell bullcr*p. Sure they can do it, but what is stopping them from packing it into 1 game? Instead of paying for 3 of them!

---

I posted this from another thread, but the point is relevant to this one.

What does CCP do to deserve money. Please list examples, so this can properly be debated.

What proof do you have to offer that supports your position that Blizzard is lying about their reasons for creating two seperate Starcraft 2 games? If a game is actually as large as two games, why not create two seperate games? The only crap I smell is that of your empty accusations.

Daffid011 · November 2008

Originally posted by Jadedfire

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Jadedfire

Interesting speech you wrote there. It is a shame you are among the ones who are delirious, gullible, and blind to the fact that just because it has 12 millions subs, doesnt mean it is a great game. More numbers doesnt neccessarily mean that something is bettter or indeed worth anything.
Centuries ago, people strongly believed in the earth being flat. Only a few actually believed that it was not and indeed we can see in our time, the minority was right. Also, take for example McDonalds, it serves over a billion customers worldwide. But does that make it great? Not at all. I can list so many other restaurants that are much better, by standards, quality, taste, and even worth compared to price.
So you keep on believing that your "WoW World" actually pleases you and the majority agree with you. But in actual reality, many play it because they follow the same path as the majority population does. Not because it is great and fulfilling game to play. It is being ignorant and delusional to believe otherwise.
Of course, this is just how I feel about the subject. Everyone has their right to their own thoughts and feelings.

He's not saying that at all. He's saying that he plays because he enjoys it.

Well youi know what? I have extra money, I'm just going to purchase a copy tomorrow in celebration of this thread.

Thank you for proving my point. Following the crowd is always easier than to disagree and stand for something different.

The world was proven to be flat and doesn't make a good analogy just because people lacked the ability to understand math, physics and geography. Somehow I doubt in the years to come a scientist will come along and prove that WoW is broken and people have not been enjoying WoW more than other games of its time.

McDonalds is perhaps the highest quality FAST FOOD restaurant, becaus every idiot hounds their reputation for quality while turning a blind eye to the 1200 calorie death burgers released by COMPARABLE FAST FOOD restaurants. Sure you can compare fast food to gourmet dining, but that doesn't make a relative comparison.

For every bad analogy you can come up with where something popular doesn't equate to quality I'm sure there are just as many where quality has lead to run away success. That is why analogies are not a good example. Talking about hamburgers doesn't validate your opinions about an MMO does it?

WoW is dominating the genre, because as much as people here do not want to acknowledge it, WoW is a superior product in in comparison to just about every other MMO when compared side by side. Some games do a few things better here and there, but overall it is hardly a comparison right now. As much as I wish it were not the case.

Jadedfire · November 2008

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Jadedfire

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Jadedfire

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Jadedfire

Interesting speech you wrote there. It is a shame you are among the ones who are delirious, gullible, and blind to the fact that just because it has 12 millions subs, doesnt mean it is a great game. More numbers doesnt neccessarily mean that something is bettter or indeed worth anything.
Centuries ago, people strongly believed in the earth being flat. Only a few actually believed that it was not and indeed we can see in our time, the minority was right. Also, take for example McDonalds, it serves over a billion customers worldwide. But does that make it great? Not at all. I can list so many other restaurants that are much better, by standards, quality, taste, and even worth compared to price.
So you keep on believing that your "WoW World" actually pleases you and the majority agree with you. But in actual reality, many play it because they follow the same path as the majority population does. Not because it is great and fulfilling game to play. It is being ignorant and delusional to believe otherwise.
Of course, this is just how I feel about the subject. Everyone has their right to their own thoughts and feelings.

He's not saying that at all. He's saying that he plays because he enjoys it.

Well youi know what? I have extra money, I'm just going to purchase a copy tomorrow in celebration of this thread.

Thank you for proving my point. Following the crowd is always easier than to disagree and stand for something different.

I don't give a damn about proving your point. I'm for choice no matter what that choice is. Sounds to me like you are one of those arrogant peopel who "know what's best" for people because you feel you are more right.

Just for that I'm buying two copies.

I never once said I "know what's best" for people. I simply implied how I felt about the matter and what it seemed like from my point of view. If you do not like to hear what others have to say, even when you do not agree with them, maybe you shouldnt be on a forum site, my friend.

Furthermore, if you choose to go out and blow all your hard-earned money on multiple copies of World of Warcraft, then that is your problem, not mine. Have fun!

I have no problem with listening to people's well thought out and presented views. But I don't presume to dictate to people what they should consider quality.

And that is what this thread is about. If you see my appended post you will learn that I pretty much skirt the edge of what is considered interesting and accepable to the general populace. And yet I still support those who enjoy whatever it is that they enjoy. Be it Hello Kitty, Porn, Pushing Daisies, Arrowsmith, Yes, C.P.E. Bach or Disney.

I woulld never be so arrogant as to tell people not to do something becasue it doesn't fit into my world view.

As neither did I. I wasnt trying to force what I said down anyone's throat and make them follow it. Please read my orginal reply again. At the end, I even said "Of course, this is just how I feel about the subject. Everyone has their right to their own thoughts and feelings."

Sovrath · November 2008

Originally posted by Jadedfire

Originally posted by Sovrath

I have no problem with listening to people's well thought out and presented views. But I don't presume to dictate to people what they should consider quality.
And that is what this thread is about. If you see my appended post you will learn that I pretty much skirt the edge of what is considered interesting and accepable to the general populace. And yet I still support those who enjoy whatever it is that they enjoy. Be it Hello Kitty, Porn, Pushing Daisies, Arrowsmith, Yes, C.P.E. Bach or Disney.
I woulld never be so arrogant as to tell people not to do something becasue it doesn't fit into my world view.

As neither did I. I wasnt trying to force what I said down anyone's throat and make them follow it. Please read my orginal reply again. At the end, I even said "Of course, this is just how I feel about the subject. Everyone has their right to the their own thoughts and feelings."

I read it and it's well written.. But it so drips with haughtiness and disregard to those who enjoy wow that it's completely damning.

I mean seriously. Comparing it with people who thougth the world was flat? And indicating that people can go on believing what they like is good?

So you keep on believing that your "WoW World" actually pleases you and the majority agree with you. But in actual reality, many play it because they follow the same path as the majority population does. Not because it is great and fulfilling game to play. It is being ignorant and delusional to believe otherwise.

It's a good game for what it is. And what it does. If people love it then more power to them. It might not be the end all and be all but I very much enjoy listening to those who absolutely love it because it is different from the other things in their lives.

So sure, you didn't come out and say people were scum for liking it but there is very little in your post that seems to have any good regard for people who do like it.

And as far as telling people not to buy it, that comment is more for the initial thrust and timbre of the thread, nof because you said "people shouldn't buy it".

So no, I don't attribute the original post with your work.. that can just be aimed at the op.

Battleskar · November 2008

Originally posted by Lobotomist

With all due respect to Blizzard as excelent company , I think it is time to say NO to World of Warcraft!

12 million users = 12 million reasons for game developers to continue feeding us theme park simplified grind based carrot on the stick abominations they today call MMO
If you go and buy WoTLK you are voting with your wallet for continuation of the trend that destroyed Sandbox , complex virtual worlds.

I just want to remind you of that.
Its up to us gamers to vote for a change now.

Not everyone shares your love of Sandbox MMo's. WoW's Subscription numbers show that.I and stupid to say ok now quit supporting a company just because you do not like it or what they may be doing. I say if you like this game by all means buy the expansion and enjoy yourself thats what games are for and if you do not like this game move on.

Kelldore · November 2008

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

Originally posted by argos5

Frankly, a new continent with more dungeons, only 1 new BG, 1 new Profession, and 1 Hero Class, in this WotLK expansion... seems to be only half of the content potential that was released in Burning Crusade. Burning Crusade had 2 new regions (Draenei/Blood Elf), 2 new races (already mentioned), new continent (Outland), 1 new BG, 1 new profession, and your standard extra raids.

If you compare WotLK and BC, your content for WotLK is gimped compared to BC. And I'm sure people enjoy getting ripped by Blizzard's wizening idea of how to effectively milk people for their money. I think CCP does a more effective job at deserving peoples' money without paying for expansion packs like Blizzard does.

I mean, look at Starcraft 2. Their reason for splitting it into 3 games was supposedly for "more content". I smell bullcr*p. Sure they can do it, but what is stopping them from packing it into 1 game? Instead of paying for 3 of them!

---

I posted this from another thread, but the point is relevant to this one.

What does CCP do to deserve money. Please list examples, so this can properly be debated.

What proof do you have to offer that supports your position that Blizzard is lying about their reasons for creating two seperate Starcraft 2 games? If a game is actually as large as two games, why not create two seperate games? The only crap I smell is that of your empty accusations.

Sorry i had to reply to the last sentence and paragraph.

A. Eve Online has never charged for an expansion..period, I have yet to see a game that cranks out expansions and new content at such a consistent level while keeping them free.

B. Knowing full well what a cash cow Starcaft initially was, Blizzard knew they could milk it till the cows come home (literally) After initially announcing it as a single game which now gets broken down into 3. Its way besides blatently obvious they did that for profit reasons...I mean c'mon...seriously...the only thing that would beat SC2 is Jesus's 2nd coming..but he will be busy waiting for the other 2 expansions...sigh.

Jadedfire · November 2008

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Jadedfire

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Jadedfire

Interesting speech you wrote there. It is a shame you are among the ones who are delirious, gullible, and blind to the fact that just because it has 12 millions subs, doesnt mean it is a great game. More numbers doesnt neccessarily mean that something is bettter or indeed worth anything.
Centuries ago, people strongly believed in the earth being flat. Only a few actually believed that it was not and indeed we can see in our time, the minority was right. Also, take for example McDonalds, it serves over a billion customers worldwide. But does that make it great? Not at all. I can list so many other restaurants that are much better, by standards, quality, taste, and even worth compared to price.
So you keep on believing that your "WoW World" actually pleases you and the majority agree with you. But in actual reality, many play it because they follow the same path as the majority population does. Not because it is great and fulfilling game to play. It is being ignorant and delusional to believe otherwise.
Of course, this is just how I feel about the subject. Everyone has their right to their own thoughts and feelings.

He's not saying that at all. He's saying that he plays because he enjoys it.

Well youi know what? I have extra money, I'm just going to purchase a copy tomorrow in celebration of this thread.

Thank you for proving my point. Following the crowd is always easier than to disagree and stand for something different.

The world was proven to be flat and doesn't make a good analogy just because people lacked the ability to understand math, physics and geography.

McDonalds is perhaps the highest quality FAST FOOD restaurant, becaus every idiot hounds their reputation for quality while turning a blind eye to the 1200 calorie death burgers released by COMPARABLE restaurants. Sure you can compare fast foor to gourmet dining, but that doesn't make a relatice comparison.

For every bad analogy you can come up with where something popular doesn't equate to quality I'm sure there are just as many where quality has lead to run away success. That is why analogies are not a good example. Talking about hamburgers doesn't validate your opinions about an MMO does it?

WoW is dominating the genre, because as much as people here do not want to acknowledge it, WoW is a superior product in in comparison to just about every other MMO when compared side by side. Some games do a few things better here and there, but overall it is hardly a comparison right now. As much as I wish it were not the case.

Ugh.. News flash! The world has been proven a Sphere, not flat. And that was not discovered by our modern time. The early greeks, discovered the Earth being a sphere. Around 330 BC, Aristotle provided observational evidence for the spherical Earth. You need to learn your History, my friend.

As far as McDonalds goes, Food restaurants are food restaurants. Period. It is a place that you go and buy food. My point was valid in relation to comparing MMORPGs to the sort. Just because one MMORPG is more PvE based, at the same time another may be more PvP based. Some are linear, some are sandbox. There are many type of restaurants, whether they serve fast food or gourmet food, they are all restaurants. As the case with the subject at hand, there are many types of MMORPGs but at the end of the day, they are all MMORPGs.

Wow being superior product is a matter of opinion, and that only. Sales and subscriptions do not make a product, superior quality. Not everyone loves World of Warcraft. Get over it and move on!

Sovrath · November 2008

Originally posted by Jadedfire
Wow being superior product is a matter of opinion, and that only. Sales and subscriptions do not make a product, superior quality. Not everyone loves World of Warcraft. Get over it and move on!

To a certain extant that's true. Quite frankly the level of polish that WoW had does seem to dwarf a good many games out there.

But you also touch upon an interesting point. What does make it a superior product?

Part of that is subjective but part of that can be measured in a concrete way.

It is a very polished game and it does have a very polished user experience. from events to prizes to a fan fest.

So just because somehting is liked by a majority doesn't mean that it is a bad thing either.

Sharajat · November 2008

So not buying WoW will punish them for their actions. And what actions has Blizzard taken as a company?

1) Consistent devotion to quality and polish - the Blizzard name means a polished game. Period. Blizzard does not release unpolished games, not now, not ever. They've scrapped a minimum of two games (Lord of the Clans and Ghost) because they didn't live up to the brand, and rumor has that number higher.

2) Focus on Fun - Blizzard wants its games to be fun. Blizzard tries to make addicting games that flow naturally, and are a joy to play. Blizzard means that you don't have to fight the controls. Blizzard means you don't have sections where nothing is happening, where you are ready to throw your keyboard across the room because the game is glitchy and sucks, because they don't make it.

3) Customization - Every one of their games has allowed an unprecidented level of user customization. Warcraft III still has the best map editor ever released.

4) Accessiblity - Blizzard makes games that play on every system. Making it work on Mac might not be cost effective. They do it anyway. Their system requirements are low, especially in relation to their graphics - people might call them simplistic, but for games with equivelent requirements, they look and feel better.

5) Multiplayer - Blizzard has never forgotten multiplayer, making it a huge part of every one of their games. Battle.net was revolutionary, a model that few have ever met.

6) Support - Blizzard patched a game 10 years after it was released. It was not an MMO. It was not making them much money anymore. They just wanted to keep it up to date and make it fun. They believe in every one of their titles.

So attack Blizzard if you must. Maybe the games they made aren't your style. Maybe you don't enjoy them. Maybe you think that the marketplace is better off if there's no greats, if there's no company that thinks consumers come first, that quality is important. Maybe your idea of a good company is SoE, EA, or Funcom. Maybe you like it when companies discontinue support for their game so you have to buy their latest game with a number after it, or release formulaic repeats every year. Maybe you think its better for the market if people release buggy, trashy games that can't live up.

And if you think that, then attack Blizzard wherever you can. Just remember, this is the list of Activision games. They're now named Activision-Blizzard. Quality rises to the top.

P.S. I hope someone knocks WoW off its throne too. And I hope they do it with a better, more fun game. But I'm a Blizzard fan from the Warcraft II days, and unlike every other company I have liked besides Valve - ID Games, Bioware, Square-Enix, Irrational Games, Ion Storm - they have never let me down.

protoroc · November 2008

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Of course Darkfall will have a Billion subscribers, so it will do just fine.

Billion?!?! Not even close, 4/5 people on Earth will prefer Darkfall to real life.

Jadedfire · November 2008

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Jadedfire

Originally posted by Sovrath

I have no problem with listening to people's well thought out and presented views. But I don't presume to dictate to people what they should consider quality.
And that is what this thread is about. If you see my appended post you will learn that I pretty much skirt the edge of what is considered interesting and accepable to the general populace. And yet I still support those who enjoy whatever it is that they enjoy. Be it Hello Kitty, Porn, Pushing Daisies, Arrowsmith, Yes, C.P.E. Bach or Disney.
I woulld never be so arrogant as to tell people not to do something becasue it doesn't fit into my world view.