What it comes down to is that it's a game and usually games have a losing aspect. Play poker; one of you is going to lose (or more), old style arcade games; you lost you started ALL over ect... The thing is people are now used to consequence free gaming and while that's ok for some games, there isn't much challenge. Oh but it's not about challenge, it's about fun!! But isn't challenge fun? Do you not play chess to beat the guy and lose your people (I forget what you call them...) ? Anyhoo, IF the DP was as harsh as L2 I wouldn't be too happy, however I doubt that to be the case.
You didnt get my point, of course a challange can be fun. Chess is a very good example, mind fucking someone who sees everthing you do without getting your plan an thus defeating him is a very fun thing.
But thats my point there is no challange in mmos. beside the few hours you need to figure out the formulars and maybe well scipted raids wich can be like a riddle.
just as an example loosing all your xp because you pulled to many mobs, or a too strong mob, isnt a challange. if any the challange was to defeat the mob, wich you failed. now you have to kill easy mobs over and over again so you get your xp back.
In essence the harsher the consequence is for failing the more people wont try things at the edge of their ability. for example if you lose all you xp or even your charakter if you die, you will not risk doing something you arent sure you can do without dying. It actually prevents you from exploring the true pontial your charakter has, since finding that would require you to try stuff at the edge of your current ability and thus inevitable you will fail at somepoint and then you will be punished for trying.
this actually dosent only apply to mmos but to human psyche in general. A kid, for example, wich is beaten for a mistake, and thus associating failure with physical pain, will never freely explore his limits.
and of course, there cant be any advancment without error. since trial and error is the base of any problem solving.
and as a note to that one guy. that you dont need punishment to learn from a mistake is not a matter of opinion. you can watch millions of people do it every day, the question is if you can learn without punishment.
Is the most out-dated and fun-depriving feature of any MMORPGs, and that is exp loss on death, especially when you can actually lose levels from it. If that feature makes it in to the final release, you can totally count me out of this game, and I think there will be many others that feel the same way.
Because? You're actually afraid of challenge and want everything handed to you on a silver platter?
It's people like you who are ruining the MMO market.
The experience loss should be as harsh as possible. When you die you should lose all experience gained that level so far, knocking you down to zero at the start of the level you were on. It should equate to a couple days of experience grinding. It should make you so mad that you want to punch your computer.
Real death penalties are the only way to create an environment that players respect and fear which leads to feeling your heart pounding in every battle.
The experience loss should be as harsh as possible. When you die you should lose all experience gained that level so far, knocking you down to zero at the start of the level you were on. It should equate to a couple days of experience grinding. It should make you so mad that you want to punch your computer. Real death penalties are the only way to create an environment that players respect and fear which leads to feeling your heart pounding in every battle.
Thats actually a interesting point. So basically your looking for the adrenaline rush. While i can see that punishment can in increase it, i dont think that it is rootet in punishment.
I can be punished and still feel only pissed because i have to to the same minial task over and over again, or you can have an andenaline rush withou being potenially punished for not succeeding.
I remeber the feeling very vividly around 10 years back when online Fps had their blooming period. i think gameplay and immersion play a bigger role then punishment. For example in the gameplay i found that short fights, as in the fight is dicided within seconds, are less exiting then long fight because short fights dont have the build up of an suspense (i really hope thats the right word in english). But of course you cant really compare it since mmos require a lot assiduity, wich arguable is contradictory to excitement.
Actually, simple out of curiosity, have you ever played online fps? In my experience they deliver a lot more excitement and adrenaline then mmos.
as a note to the troll:
punishment isnt a challange, punishment is what you get if you fail a challange...
Meh, I'm all for XP loss. Why play a game with all reward and no penalty. It makes strategy more important and makes you work for levels. It also stops 11 year olds from keyboard head rolling to max level and takes away death travel (die to get to GY, GY rez, boom, home).
I've also found XP loss also makes those close fights that much more exciting. I like a game that can actually get my adreniline gland pumping.
In essence the harsher the consequence is for failing the more people wont try things at the edge of their ability. for example if you lose all you xp or even your charakter if you die, you will not risk doing something you arent sure you can do without dying. It actually prevents you from exploring the true pontial your charakter has, since finding that would require you to try stuff at the edge of your current ability and thus inevitable you will fail at somepoint and then you will be punished for trying.
I can agree with that. And like I said IF the death penalty proves to be gargantuan and dispirits me, I won't play long.
For the moment I simply think this XP loss will be a slap on the wrist: "Don't die! /slap" And a slap you actually feel unlike Eq2 where you only need what a few silvers or coppers to repair your armor? Who cares if you die really, that's too easy in my opinion. BUT in the old days of FFXI when you died that hurt, and I don't want it to THAT extreme either. A nice balance in between would be okay. I say in the old days of FFXI because I played last month and it seems a lot easier now..
The prospect of possibly dying, or not dying should give the player a bit of an adrenaline boost, like said above already, but it shouldn't discourage people from trying out new things either, I totally agree there.
In essence the harsher the consequence is for failing the more people wont try things at the edge of their ability. for example if you lose all you xp or even your charakter if you die, you will not risk doing something you arent sure you can do without dying. It actually prevents you from exploring the true pontial your charakter has, since finding that would require you to try stuff at the edge of your current ability and thus inevitable you will fail at somepoint and then you will be punished for trying.
I can agree with that. And like I said IF the death penalty proves to be gargantuan and dispirits me, I won't play long.
For the moment I simply think this XP loss will be a slap on the wrist: "Don't die! /slap" And a slap you actually feel unlike Eq2 where you only need what a few silvers or coppers to repair your armor? Who cares if you die really, that's too easy in my opinion. BUT in the old days of FFXI when you died that hurt, and I don't want it to THAT extreme either. A nice balance in between would be okay. I say in the old days of FFXI because I played last month and it seems a lot easier now..
The prospect of possibly dying, or not dying should give the player a bit of an adrenaline boost, like said above already, but it shouldn't discourage people from trying out new things either, I totally agree there.
I agree that the DP shouldnt be high enought to discourage people from playing, however when you are fighting you do have a few options. Like if you trying to test the limits of your ability and it looks as if you will fail you should run away. Even if you have the ability to root or snare your enemies you could try kiting and taking things a bit slower or more cautiously.
The DP does have to be there though to have a risk factor though. So I for it
xp loss never stopped me from exploring in L2, i just had to run for my life allot, and if you have played l2 you know mobs are very persistant at running after you...:p most of the times i was killed in L2 was when i was afk and someone decided to get a free kill of me...very annoying. but still really was not botherd about the XP..
The experience loss should be as harsh as possible. When you die you should lose all experience gained that level so far, knocking you down to zero at the start of the level you were on. It should equate to a couple days of experience grinding. It should make you so mad that you want to punch your computer. Real death penalties are the only way to create an environment that players respect and fear which leads to feeling your heart pounding in every battle.
If I remember right if your forgot to save your level progress in some machine in AO if you died you lost all xp till the last time you saved or maybe just that level. I remembered it happend I was so close to level and I lost all my xp for that lvl when I died. But I still think you lose xp when you die even if you saved it just not as much.
I don't know what the big fuss is over this exp loss crap-played with it, put up with it, used to it
If you think that's bad though, be grateful you never played EVE online.... at least in Aion you will still have your gear and your character in tact, in EVE if you lose your Battlecruiser.... BOOM! Millions of isk down the toilet never to be seen again, and don't even get me started on losing a Titan.
It's almost 2010, and I am just not wiling to tolerate clunky graphics while being told that "gameplay is more important than graphics". That excuse won't wash with me any more. I expect my games to have both good graphics and good gameplay. -Quote Isoke(VN boards)
lol, you know I like EVE but I would never get serious about it because I can imagine myself having a serious meltdown at losing most of everything I worked for...
LOL, yeah, one of the reasons I STOPPED playing EVE.
It's almost 2010, and I am just not wiling to tolerate clunky graphics while being told that "gameplay is more important than graphics". That excuse won't wash with me any more. I expect my games to have both good graphics and good gameplay. -Quote Isoke(VN boards)
Originally posted by Ephimero There's an easy way to advoid it though, what about not dying? OP and players alike are so confortable in the easy mode status that their requests ruin the fun for those who want to feel the game as something challenging.
Comfortable in my easy mode status eh? You feel that an exp penalty is the only way to make death harsh? How about harsh death resurrection penalties, that keep you from being at full power even with the aid of a cleric or NPC? Or, how about a game that is so difficult, that dying is flat out easy, where you have fight a mob encounter over and over again before you get the strategy "right".
You mention simply "not dying" as an option to avoid the death penalty. Well, what if every mob encounter that has the potential to yeild decent rewards has the chance of killing you? Would you not call that challenge?
Waiting for:
-Games- -Re-Launch of Hellgate:London US/EU Servers -Diablo 3
-A PvE centric MMORPG with- -Fast paced twitch-action combat that requires hand-eye coordination, where you can manually aim your attacks instead of having to acquire/lock target(s) first. -FPS-style WASD and mouse control that determine your overall success when attacking or defending.
Originally posted by Ephimero There's an easy way to advoid it though, what about not dying? OP and players alike are so confortable in the easy mode status that their requests ruin the fun for those who want to feel the game as something challenging.
Comfortable in my easy mode status eh? You feel that an exp penalty is the only way to make death harsh? How about harsh death resurrection penalties, that keep you from being at full power even with the aid of a cleric or NPC? Or, how about a game that is so difficult, that dying is flat out easy, where you have fight a mob encounter over and over again before you get the strategy "right".
You mention simply "not dying" as an option to avoid the death penalty. Well, what if every mob encounter that has the potential to yeild decent rewards has the chance of killing you? Would you not call that challenge?
It's a matter of personal taste. Following the same logic... why not have a challenging mob that drops awesome loot WITH the thrill of having consequences? The death penalty is obviously not for everyone, but to some, it does add that level factor of excitement.
Of course, NCSoft can't create a game that can cater to EVERYONES needs. So as other posters have mentioned, either play it or drop it... the game probably isn't for you so I guess you won't be playing it.
P.S. Just like how WoW has a PvP/PvE/RP/RP-PVP servers... maybe Aion can have something similar... like Hardcore (harsh penalties) and Normal (kitty penalties).
How much of a XP loss are we talking about? Does anyone know? Also, are there any other penalties with it?(item decay, timed debuff. If it is just the xp loss(similar to EQ) then that's not so bad.
Originally posted by Ephimero There's an easy way to advoid it though, what about not dying? OP and players alike are so confortable in the easy mode status that their requests ruin the fun for those who want to feel the game as something challenging.
Comfortable in my easy mode status eh? You feel that an exp penalty is the only way to make death harsh? How about harsh death resurrection penalties, that keep you from being at full power even with the aid of a cleric or NPC? Or, how about a game that is so difficult, that dying is flat out easy, where you have fight a mob encounter over and over again before you get the strategy "right".
You mention simply "not dying" as an option to avoid the death penalty. Well, what if every mob encounter that has the potential to yeild decent rewards has the chance of killing you? Would you not call that challenge?
There's a point where devs put a carrot on a stick, and people will focus on that and only care about that until they are done. In a game with levels, people see them as the ultimate goal (even if they aren't) and they are way more affected by it than by any other kind of death penalty.
There's a point where "harsh resurrection penalties" would become meaningless, and that's when I want to travel back to the city and stay there to buy stuff or something, the debuff would fade eventually. Specially in quest based leveling such as Aion's, most of the times you don't need to fight in order to keep up advancing.
About harder mobs encounters, they can always be zerged down in a seamless enviroment, people would use that just like they are using it now in the elite mobs areas, I've seen forces of 12 people zerging a level 20 elite mob, when I can solo them being level 24.
As hellrose described in aionsource, DP is a slap in the wrist in this game, like a "shit, I died, *tsk tsk*" and you keep going, it's not harsh enough to turn you down since you can always recover most of the xp loss, but harsh enough to leave you out of money fastly if you keep dying, I've died enough to spend over 70k already, and trust me, money doesn't come easy when you don't understand korean (buying useless skills, for example) :P
I know that for the european release I'll stop risking and going with 20% of my HP to the next mob like I did before realizing, if that's cause of the DP, then the DP is good enough.
And Achesoma, at level 24, I would have to pay around 6k kina in order to recover most of my XP loss, it takes around 4% of your XP and you can't delevel, so if you're about to try something, do it when you just leveled :P. Then there's a 1m debuff which slows you down, which also gets removed on recovery. Stacking deaths counts, and I've paid 16K for a triple death penalty at level 20, that was harsh, lucky me there are money repeatable quests ^^
In real life adrenaline rush will increase your focus, response time, and athletic ability. However, in a MMORPG, it will not help to increase anything concrete on your character. Maybe it will increase your skill as players a little bit.
If simply wants a good adrenaline rush, then it doesn't have to be a huge death penalty. It can be anything that cause such reaction in your body. If you are one of those type of people that can't get an adrenaline rush unless you live on the edge. Maybe you are better off in extreme sports than MMORPG.
Some players might want to avoid heart pounding excitements all together in MMORPG. If you game alot, and doesn't exercise, then you might actually end up with a heart attack. Then, I guess the death penalty is pretty big now isn't it? LOL
well for one thing at least this way more parties/groups would be formed and healers will not be forced to solo. I just hope people don't always blame the healers for the death. There are many factors that coulld lead to the death of a party/group.
Some players might want to avoid heart pounding excitements all together in MMORPG. If you game alot, and doesn't exercise, then you might actually end up with a heart attack. Then, I guess the death penalty is pretty big now isn't it? LOL
Well that has a lot more to do with your quality of life then a harsh(ish) DP, please go outside people!!!
Originally posted by Ephimero There's a point where devs put a carrot on a stick, and people will focus on that and only care about that until they are done. In a game with levels, people see them as the ultimate goal (even if they aren't) and they are way more affected by it than by any other kind of death penalty.
Originally posted by Ambikan I'm not sure if you are referring to me, but its not the leveling part of MMORPG's that I enjoy, although that has become a big part of it. I scored 100% on the explorer section on the the Bartle MMO quiz, so to me its more about exploring areas than it is just taking the "shortest route to the carrot" to become powerful as quickly as possible.
Originally posted by Ephimero There's a point where "harsh resurrection penalties" would become meaningless, and that's when I want to travel back to the city and stay there to buy stuff or something, the debuff would fade eventually. Specially in quest based leveling such as Aion's, most of the times you don't need to fight in order to keep up advancing.
Originally posted by Ambikan Even if you don't have to fight to advance, there could always be death penalties incurred. For example, if you die, instead of losing exp, your exp gain from doing anything would be reduced.
Originally posted by Ephimero About harder mobs encounters, they can always be zerged down in a seamless enviroment, people would use that just like they are using it now in the elite mobs areas, I've seen forces of 12 people zerging a level 20 elite mob, when I can solo them being level 24.
Originally posted by Ephimero As hellrose described in aionsource, DP is a slap in the wrist in this game, like a "shit, I died, *tsk tsk*" and you keep going, it's not harsh enough to turn you down since you can always recover most of the xp loss, but harsh enough to leave you out of money fastly if you keep dying, I've died enough to spend over 70k already, and trust me, money doesn't come easy when you don't understand korean (buying useless skills, for example) :P
Originally posted by Ambikan So if exp loss is already just a "slap in the wrist", and the money you spend to regain the lost exp is the real pain to deal with, why not just forget exp loss altogether and make a death/ressurection penalty in which who you have to spend money to regain that sickness?
Originally posted by Ephimero If you don't enjoy death penalties and becoming affected after a death, skip this one, I'll enjoy it for the both of us.
I'm glad you will be enjoing the game for the both of us, but how about the thousands or tens of thousands of gamers who will shun this game looking for a death penalty that is so old it has been around since 98/99, and longer than that if you include MUDs?
Waiting for:
-Games- -Re-Launch of Hellgate:London US/EU Servers -Diablo 3
-A PvE centric MMORPG with- -Fast paced twitch-action combat that requires hand-eye coordination, where you can manually aim your attacks instead of having to acquire/lock target(s) first. -FPS-style WASD and mouse control that determine your overall success when attacking or defending.
...Maybe it will increase your skill as players a little bit....
My experience, and a lot of my old comrades in AC2 and Lineage II think the same, is that a significant death penalty increases not just a "little bit" your player skills. May be not right now, but when i tried WoW (and it was may be around 3 years after launch) it was easy for me to know quickly who was coming from more "risky" games. I bet with a friend about it and i won almost all the time.
In a game with real "death penalty sure you will play more seriously each fight. No place in a game like these for people playing crazy like i have seen in the last games i have been playing without something that deserves to be called "Death penalty".
To me some risk make the game a lot more interesting but i know it is not the same for all.
From what I have seen in videos/livestream of OBT the xp penalty seems pretty benign. You loose some % from dying in PvE, but most (if not all, atleast 80% of what you lost, it was hard to see for sure..) can be returned by a healer. All you loose is money (hopefully so much it hurts) and even if you dont buy the xp back you can make it back in 15 min max. You also get some debuff.
You wont delevel (im pretty sure but not 100%, read it a long long time ago) so once you get to max you can wipe in raids all you want.
You wont loose xp from dying in PvP. You will only loose abyss points (that is used for buying PvP gear and stuff). You gain abyss points from killing other players.
So.. Its not a very harsh penalty, but you will still feel it I hope and it is exactly how a reasonable death penalty should look according to me.
Dying in PvE should definitely be penalized, cuz its pretty unskilled to die from a monster. PvP is all about dying and an xp penalty from PvP would only deter people from fighting. Not loosing lvl is a good thing, so you can focus on whatever endgame content there is without having to constantly work to stay max. All good
Comments
Death on pvp also has a penalty, an abyss points one.
Considering we'll be dieing many, many times in PvP, the exp loss will be much lower.
I remember reading this a long time ago, gonna need confirmation on this.
A lack of a death penalty will result in never-ending zerging and suicide runs.
For people who are worried about losing exp from pvp: best time to jump in is right after leveling.
"When you're born you're naked, when you die you're naked again, and in-between all we do is work, eat, and play MMOs." ~Forum Warrior #141
You didnt get my point, of course a challange can be fun. Chess is a very good example, mind fucking someone who sees everthing you do without getting your plan an thus defeating him is a very fun thing.
But thats my point there is no challange in mmos. beside the few hours you need to figure out the formulars and maybe well scipted raids wich can be like a riddle.
just as an example loosing all your xp because you pulled to many mobs, or a too strong mob, isnt a challange. if any the challange was to defeat the mob, wich you failed. now you have to kill easy mobs over and over again so you get your xp back.
In essence the harsher the consequence is for failing the more people wont try things at the edge of their ability. for example if you lose all you xp or even your charakter if you die, you will not risk doing something you arent sure you can do without dying. It actually prevents you from exploring the true pontial your charakter has, since finding that would require you to try stuff at the edge of your current ability and thus inevitable you will fail at somepoint and then you will be punished for trying.
this actually dosent only apply to mmos but to human psyche in general. A kid, for example, wich is beaten for a mistake, and thus associating failure with physical pain, will never freely explore his limits.
and of course, there cant be any advancment without error. since trial and error is the base of any problem solving.
and as a note to that one guy. that you dont need punishment to learn from a mistake is not a matter of opinion. you can watch millions of people do it every day, the question is if you can learn without punishment.
Because? You're actually afraid of challenge and want everything handed to you on a silver platter?
It's people like you who are ruining the MMO market.
The experience loss should be as harsh as possible. When you die you should lose all experience gained that level so far, knocking you down to zero at the start of the level you were on. It should equate to a couple days of experience grinding. It should make you so mad that you want to punch your computer.
Real death penalties are the only way to create an environment that players respect and fear which leads to feeling your heart pounding in every battle.
Thats actually a interesting point. So basically your looking for the adrenaline rush. While i can see that punishment can in increase it, i dont think that it is rootet in punishment.
I can be punished and still feel only pissed because i have to to the same minial task over and over again, or you can have an andenaline rush withou being potenially punished for not succeeding.
I remeber the feeling very vividly around 10 years back when online Fps had their blooming period. i think gameplay and immersion play a bigger role then punishment. For example in the gameplay i found that short fights, as in the fight is dicided within seconds, are less exiting then long fight because short fights dont have the build up of an suspense (i really hope thats the right word in english). But of course you cant really compare it since mmos require a lot assiduity, wich arguable is contradictory to excitement.
Actually, simple out of curiosity, have you ever played online fps? In my experience they deliver a lot more excitement and adrenaline then mmos.
as a note to the troll:
punishment isnt a challange, punishment is what you get if you fail a challange...
Meh, I'm all for XP loss. Why play a game with all reward and no penalty. It makes strategy more important and makes you work for levels. It also stops 11 year olds from keyboard head rolling to max level and takes away death travel (die to get to GY, GY rez, boom, home).
I've also found XP loss also makes those close fights that much more exciting. I like a game that can actually get my adreniline gland pumping.
I can agree with that. And like I said IF the death penalty proves to be gargantuan and dispirits me, I won't play long.
For the moment I simply think this XP loss will be a slap on the wrist: "Don't die! /slap" And a slap you actually feel unlike Eq2 where you only need what a few silvers or coppers to repair your armor? Who cares if you die really, that's too easy in my opinion. BUT in the old days of FFXI when you died that hurt, and I don't want it to THAT extreme either. A nice balance in between would be okay. I say in the old days of FFXI because I played last month and it seems a lot easier now..
The prospect of possibly dying, or not dying should give the player a bit of an adrenaline boost, like said above already, but it shouldn't discourage people from trying out new things either, I totally agree there.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
I can agree with that. And like I said IF the death penalty proves to be gargantuan and dispirits me, I won't play long.
For the moment I simply think this XP loss will be a slap on the wrist: "Don't die! /slap" And a slap you actually feel unlike Eq2 where you only need what a few silvers or coppers to repair your armor? Who cares if you die really, that's too easy in my opinion. BUT in the old days of FFXI when you died that hurt, and I don't want it to THAT extreme either. A nice balance in between would be okay. I say in the old days of FFXI because I played last month and it seems a lot easier now..
The prospect of possibly dying, or not dying should give the player a bit of an adrenaline boost, like said above already, but it shouldn't discourage people from trying out new things either, I totally agree there.
I agree that the DP shouldnt be high enought to discourage people from playing, however when you are fighting you do have a few options. Like if you trying to test the limits of your ability and it looks as if you will fail you should run away. Even if you have the ability to root or snare your enemies you could try kiting and taking things a bit slower or more cautiously.
The DP does have to be there though to have a risk factor though. So I for it
Deimos
xp loss never stopped me from exploring in L2, i just had to run for my life allot, and if you have played l2 you know mobs are very persistant at running after you...:p most of the times i was killed in L2 was when i was afk and someone decided to get a free kill of me...very annoying.
but still really was not botherd about the XP..
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
If I remember right if your forgot to save your level progress in some machine in AO if you died you lost all xp till the last time you saved or maybe just that level. I remembered it happend I was so close to level and I lost all my xp for that lvl when I died. But I still think you lose xp when you die even if you saved it just not as much.
I don't know what the big fuss is over this exp loss crap-played with it, put up with it, used to it
If you think that's bad though, be grateful you never played EVE online.... at least in Aion you will still have your gear and your character in tact, in EVE if you lose your Battlecruiser.... BOOM! Millions of isk down the toilet never to be seen again, and don't even get me started on losing a Titan.
It's almost 2010, and I am just not wiling to tolerate clunky graphics while being told that "gameplay is more important than graphics". That excuse won't wash with me any more. I expect my games to have both good graphics and good gameplay.
-Quote Isoke(VN boards)
lol, you know I like EVE but I would never get serious about it because I can imagine myself having a serious meltdown at losing most of everything I worked for...
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
LOL, yeah, one of the reasons I STOPPED playing EVE.
It's almost 2010, and I am just not wiling to tolerate clunky graphics while being told that "gameplay is more important than graphics". That excuse won't wash with me any more. I expect my games to have both good graphics and good gameplay.
-Quote Isoke(VN boards)
Comfortable in my easy mode status eh? You feel that an exp penalty is the only way to make death harsh? How about harsh death resurrection penalties, that keep you from being at full power even with the aid of a cleric or NPC? Or, how about a game that is so difficult, that dying is flat out easy, where you have fight a mob encounter over and over again before you get the strategy "right".
You mention simply "not dying" as an option to avoid the death penalty. Well, what if every mob encounter that has the potential to yeild decent rewards has the chance of killing you? Would you not call that challenge?
Waiting for:
-Games-
-Re-Launch of Hellgate:London US/EU Servers
-Diablo 3
-A PvE centric MMORPG with-
-Fast paced twitch-action combat that requires hand-eye coordination, where you can manually aim your attacks instead of having to acquire/lock target(s) first.
-FPS-style WASD and mouse control that determine your overall success when attacking or defending.
Comfortable in my easy mode status eh? You feel that an exp penalty is the only way to make death harsh? How about harsh death resurrection penalties, that keep you from being at full power even with the aid of a cleric or NPC? Or, how about a game that is so difficult, that dying is flat out easy, where you have fight a mob encounter over and over again before you get the strategy "right".
You mention simply "not dying" as an option to avoid the death penalty. Well, what if every mob encounter that has the potential to yeild decent rewards has the chance of killing you? Would you not call that challenge?
It's a matter of personal taste. Following the same logic... why not have a challenging mob that drops awesome loot WITH the thrill of having consequences? The death penalty is obviously not for everyone, but to some, it does add that level factor of excitement.
Of course, NCSoft can't create a game that can cater to EVERYONES needs. So as other posters have mentioned, either play it or drop it... the game probably isn't for you so I guess you won't be playing it.
P.S. Just like how WoW has a PvP/PvE/RP/RP-PVP servers... maybe Aion can have something similar... like Hardcore (harsh penalties) and Normal (kitty penalties).
How much of a XP loss are we talking about? Does anyone know? Also, are there any other penalties with it?(item decay, timed debuff. If it is just the xp loss(similar to EQ) then that's not so bad.
Comfortable in my easy mode status eh? You feel that an exp penalty is the only way to make death harsh? How about harsh death resurrection penalties, that keep you from being at full power even with the aid of a cleric or NPC? Or, how about a game that is so difficult, that dying is flat out easy, where you have fight a mob encounter over and over again before you get the strategy "right".
You mention simply "not dying" as an option to avoid the death penalty. Well, what if every mob encounter that has the potential to yeild decent rewards has the chance of killing you? Would you not call that challenge?
There's a point where devs put a carrot on a stick, and people will focus on that and only care about that until they are done. In a game with levels, people see them as the ultimate goal (even if they aren't) and they are way more affected by it than by any other kind of death penalty.
There's a point where "harsh resurrection penalties" would become meaningless, and that's when I want to travel back to the city and stay there to buy stuff or something, the debuff would fade eventually. Specially in quest based leveling such as Aion's, most of the times you don't need to fight in order to keep up advancing.
About harder mobs encounters, they can always be zerged down in a seamless enviroment, people would use that just like they are using it now in the elite mobs areas, I've seen forces of 12 people zerging a level 20 elite mob, when I can solo them being level 24.
As hellrose described in aionsource, DP is a slap in the wrist in this game, like a "shit, I died, *tsk tsk*" and you keep going, it's not harsh enough to turn you down since you can always recover most of the xp loss, but harsh enough to leave you out of money fastly if you keep dying, I've died enough to spend over 70k already, and trust me, money doesn't come easy when you don't understand korean (buying useless skills, for example) :P
I know that for the european release I'll stop risking and going with 20% of my HP to the next mob like I did before realizing, if that's cause of the DP, then the DP is good enough.
And Achesoma, at level 24, I would have to pay around 6k kina in order to recover most of my XP loss, it takes around 4% of your XP and you can't delevel, so if you're about to try something, do it when you just leveled :P. Then there's a 1m debuff which slows you down, which also gets removed on recovery. Stacking deaths counts, and I've paid 16K for a triple death penalty at level 20, that was harsh, lucky me there are money repeatable quests ^^
In real life adrenaline rush will increase your focus, response time, and athletic ability. However, in a MMORPG, it will not help to increase anything concrete on your character. Maybe it will increase your skill as players a little bit.
If simply wants a good adrenaline rush, then it doesn't have to be a huge death penalty. It can be anything that cause such reaction in your body. If you are one of those type of people that can't get an adrenaline rush unless you live on the edge. Maybe you are better off in extreme sports than MMORPG.
Some players might want to avoid heart pounding excitements all together in MMORPG. If you game alot, and doesn't exercise, then you might actually end up with a heart attack. Then, I guess the death penalty is pretty big now isn't it? LOL
well for one thing at least this way more parties/groups would be formed and healers will not be forced to solo. I just hope people don't always blame the healers for the death. There are many factors that coulld lead to the death of a party/group.
If you want an adrenaline rush, join the army, take a tour to Iraq and go play with some road-side bombs like a real man.
"When you're born you're naked, when you die you're naked again, and in-between all we do is work, eat, and play MMOs." ~Forum Warrior #141
Well that has a lot more to do with your quality of life then a harsh(ish) DP, please go outside people!!!
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
Originally posted by Ephimero
Originally posted by EphimeroThere's a point where devs put a carrot on a stick, and people will focus on that and only care about that until they are done. In a game with levels, people see them as the ultimate goal (even if they aren't) and they are way more affected by it than by any other kind of death penalty.
As hellrose described in aionsource, DP is a slap in the wrist in this game, like a "shit, I died, *tsk tsk*" and you keep going, it's not harsh enough to turn you down since you can always recover most of the xp loss, but harsh enough to leave you out of money fastly if you keep dying, I've died enough to spend over 70k already, and trust me, money doesn't come easy when you don't understand korean (buying useless skills, for example) :P
Originally posted by Ambikan So if exp loss is already just a "slap in the wrist", and the money you spend to regain the lost exp is the real pain to deal with, why not just forget exp loss altogether and make a death/ressurection penalty in which who you have to spend money to regain that sickness?
Originally posted by Ephimero
If you don't enjoy death penalties and becoming affected after a death, skip this one, I'll enjoy it for the both of us.
I'm glad you will be enjoing the game for the both of us, but how about the thousands or tens of thousands of gamers who will shun this game looking for a death penalty that is so old it has been around since 98/99, and longer than that if you include MUDs?
Waiting for:
-Games-
-Re-Launch of Hellgate:London US/EU Servers
-Diablo 3
-A PvE centric MMORPG with-
-Fast paced twitch-action combat that requires hand-eye coordination, where you can manually aim your attacks instead of having to acquire/lock target(s) first.
-FPS-style WASD and mouse control that determine your overall success when attacking or defending.
My experience, and a lot of my old comrades in AC2 and Lineage II think the same, is that a significant death penalty increases not just a "little bit" your player skills. May be not right now, but when i tried WoW (and it was may be around 3 years after launch) it was easy for me to know quickly who was coming from more "risky" games. I bet with a friend about it and i won almost all the time.
In a game with real "death penalty sure you will play more seriously each fight. No place in a game like these for people playing crazy like i have seen in the last games i have been playing without something that deserves to be called "Death penalty".
To me some risk make the game a lot more interesting but i know it is not the same for all.
From what I have seen in videos/livestream of OBT the xp penalty seems pretty benign. You loose some % from dying in PvE, but most (if not all, atleast 80% of what you lost, it was hard to see for sure..) can be returned by a healer. All you loose is money (hopefully so much it hurts) and even if you dont buy the xp back you can make it back in 15 min max. You also get some debuff.
You wont delevel (im pretty sure but not 100%, read it a long long time ago) so once you get to max you can wipe in raids all you want.
You wont loose xp from dying in PvP. You will only loose abyss points (that is used for buying PvP gear and stuff). You gain abyss points from killing other players.
So.. Its not a very harsh penalty, but you will still feel it I hope and it is exactly how a reasonable death penalty should look according to me.
Dying in PvE should definitely be penalized, cuz its pretty unskilled to die from a monster. PvP is all about dying and an xp penalty from PvP would only deter people from fighting. Not loosing lvl is a good thing, so you can focus on whatever endgame content there is without having to constantly work to stay max. All good