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War = AoC2
Spaceweed10
Member Posts: 625
AoC looked promising, but actually turned out to be a pile of cowflop.
Warhammer is turning out to be the same. Why?
1. Combat. A PvP game requires split second timing to succeed. Life or death can mean the matter of one button press. Unfortunately, the combat system used by Mythic in this game, has the response of the Titanic doing a left turn.
Too many defining abilities and morales don't go off when you most need them. It makes PvP a bad joke when you are fighting a WE who has 2 buttons to press to beat you.
2. Stability. Someone told me this game has a 'flawless engine' and the latency issues are in my head. I think not. Huge battles in end-game? Dream on, the server will crash, I guarantee it.
3. Itemisation - An old joke passed down from AoC especially. Nuff said.
4. Class Balance - This has almost broken the game itself. Order tanks and healers are almost extinct now. Patch 1.05 address this issue by nerfing them, and buffing DPS across the board.
The most OP classes I have ever seen in all the MMO's I've played - BW/Sorc/WE - are actually buffed or remain intact in respect of overall damage, and guess what? Yes, all the SC's in T1/2/3 now, are....correct. WE's are the biggest joke out there in terms of damage done, and for most classes there is no escape - even from a WE that is 5-6 levels lower. A complete and utter shambles.
5. AoC lied to us about what and when their game would be actually playable. Mythic told us mainly the truth, but I think Stevie Wonder is in charge over there at moment - Some great tunes being played, but everyone is blind as a bat.
<Rock on, Stevie, btw>
6. All in all, this game won't succeed. I am baffled, due to the fact I played DAoC many moons ago, and enjoyed it. Mythic have learned nothing about the mistakes made in that game, but have just stumbled on and made mystifying design decisions.
I wouldn't recommend this game to anyone, just as I didn't AoC. They are similar in terms of hype and BS that was spewed from the suits pre-release. Can someone ever deliver a solid game in the MMO genre ever again?
I doubt it, because the fat, greedy moneymen don't give a toss about 'excellence' in their product. Quick in, quick out with a few $$. This genre is dead in my opinion. I wait to be proved wrong. I won't be holding my breath...
Comments
You know what the irony here is?
AoC although a controversial launch is ahead of the curve against MYTHIC and is headed in the right direction.A new director and the features they fell short on are slowly and painfully coming to fruition.
AoC is/will/does have the potential to be THE PvP game with real consequence.
I remember shortly before WAR launch the disclaimer that MYTHIC put out saying that they would not have everything in game as promised by the arm flailing Paul Barnett.
Everyone thought that this was the best thing ever to happen from this company.Let me point out that the best thing that ever COULD have happened did not.The game did not live up to its hype.
WAR went the way of WOW to the NTH degree with too many instances and left a huge world empty.When i played i was in nothing but instances because that is where the reward is.
To me it felt like a free multiplayer game via HELLGATE.Just watch FC is biding its time and working dilligently and will sneak under the radar as GOTY.
What is your physical limit?
Ya it is actually quite unfortunate that both games are failing. The only difference is that when I quit AoC, I knew I would eventually go back when it got fixed up a bit.WAR on the otherhand is pretty much unfixable imo, I doubt I would ever come back to this game.
Warhammer is Unfixable? any game is fixable with the right people...you can't be serious?
AoC had it's problems 1month past Launch but atleast FC fixed the game up and has now a good core system that really bears potential. AoC is quite polished now in fact. WAR, is as best put, just unfixable. Even if looking aside of all tech issues, the design has some major issues, this game is just lonely as hell.
And btw, I am not saying that WAR is a perfect game without issues, I just felt the need to give you another perspective on some of the issues you raised.
says the dude who play the most OP class, i bet you have fun in there... ;P
In 6 month, there will be 50% BWS/Sorcs 25% WE/WH, and the last 25% will be the die hard people who force themselfs to believe that WAR will ever get balanced.
WAR failed imo... hit lvl 40 and the game turns into ORvR grind, i logged back in to get some keep action which is probably the most fun you'll ever have in THIS game, only to find 1 full Warband that was just running around hijacking keeps for the renown, basicly order and destro avoided eachother to get items from keep takes, and renown from keeps and obs.
People started talking about how long they would stick around, before they would log out, i laughed and said: "wow, people start to log in now, only to get their daily renown", and one answered: "What else is there to do..." followed by 5 min of silence, no1 seemed to disagree.
And btw, I am not saying that WAR is a perfect game without issues, I just felt the need to give you another perspective on some of the issues you raised.
So you are basically saying WAR is twice as good as AoC.
Except thats on the test server and they have already announced BW and Sorc wont be getting DOT buffs, and Healers wont be getting HOT nerfs.
And btw, I am not saying that WAR is a perfect game without issues, I just felt the need to give you another perspective on some of the issues you raised.
Why is one suddenly a fanboy for not following the trend around here to bash just about everyone and everything? Anyhow, I still stand with my previous statement that I dont think Mythic needs an official forum.
Look at this forum - you have a signifanct number of people on this very forum that are clearly here just to bitch and moan and get attention. Official forums either need very heavy moderating or will get totally out of control. Not because the game needs that much discussion, but because it has become a sport on the internet for people to troll forums, start pointless flame threads and to do just about anything else that will get some attention. I dont think that having official forums would in any way increase Mythics ability to communicate with their players and get feedback. Instead it would make them look bad in the public - not because of a bad product, but because of their inability to defend against such kind of abuse as described above.
Other than that, I stated facts in my previous comments, which I think does not qualify me as a fanboy. The definition of a fanboy is somebody who defends something without any rational basis and against better judgement. If I state that RvR does not lag for me on my system, than you have to accept that. If I say that WH and WE are more or less on equal ground, than this is backed up by personal observation (gotten slaughtered by WHs numerous times with my Sorc), comments from people who play either class and the general tendency of Mythic to make classes of the same type almost equal to an extend where even skills are complete mirror images (which I don't really like, but anyhow)...
Well guys keep in mind AoC is released for 6 months already and WAR still have time to catch up.
Also some people will never never like AoC type of combat ( fast paced, every second counts ) and will prefer a bit slower combat where other things count.
WAR have RvR and its easier to "fix" RvR game with meaningful content then FFA one.
We can only hope both games will turn out good and we as players will have a choice what to play.
If we are lucky both games will have between 300.000 and 500.000 subscribers whats more then enough to keep games going with decent team and updates/expansions.
Futilez[Do You Have What It Takes ?]
TBH, i dont think WAR is failing as badly as AOC. I WISH they WOULD fail as hard... because Mythic honestly deserves to die for their seriously screwed up fighting system (2 sec global CD, non responsive) and hiring GOA for the EU sect.
Then again, i AM playing a 39 witch hunter, so i'm not quite sure what to say.
---------------------------
Will play: not WAR, HELLO KITTY ONLINE!!11one
Playing: EVE
Played: EQ (+all expansions too), Asheron''s Call 2, Anarchy Online, Planet Side, EQ2, WoW (+TBC), EVE
The problems with WAR and AoC are not even close to the same. They both may have some serious flaws, but different flaws which become apparent in different ways at different times.
AoC was boned up from day one. Even before day one in beta it was boned. The majority of the beta testers (I was one) were furious with the game and were telling Funcom it was not ready for release by a long shot. Funcom ignored this and released a broken, unfinished product which did not even come close to living up to the hype. AoC bombed instantly from release.
The difference with WAR is that it atleast lasted a few months before the groaning, complaining and mass exodus out of the game happened. This is because the issues with WAR were different. It is not broken or unfinished. It merely lacks long term appeal. It bombed slowly over the course of time, much like Tabula Rasa did.
The big difference between AoC and WAR is also in the attitude of the developers and gamers. AoC is an awful game which sucks on every possible level and Funcom lied about this fact, much to the dismay of many people. WAR on the other hand is just kind of a mediocre game which didn't hold appeal for very long. Thats a big difference to me because if I saw a WAR developer on the street I would probably not kick him in the balls. On the other hand if I saw an AoC developer on the street...
EDIT: I do however agree with the OP when he says he has doubts that we will ever see another decent MMO released that actually lives up to the claims it makes before release. I feel the same way.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
The problems with WAR and AoC are not even close to the same. They both may have some serious flaws, but different flaws which become apparent in different ways at different times.
AoC was boned up from day one. Even before day one in beta it was boned. The majority of the beta testers (I was one) were furious with the game and were telling Funcom it was not ready for release by a long shot. Funcom ignored this and released a broken, unfinished product which did not even come close to living up to the hype. AoC bombed instantly from release.
The difference with WAR is that it atleast lasted a few months before the groaning, complaining and mass exodus out of the game happened. This is because the issues with WAR were different. It is not broken or unfinished. It merely lacks long term appeal. It bombed slowly over the course of time, much like Tabula Rasa did.
The big difference between AoC and WAR is also in the attitude of the developers and gamers. AoC is an awful game which sucks on every possible level and Funcom lied about this fact, much to the dismay of many people. WAR on the other hand is just kind of a mediocre game which didn't hold appeal for very long. Thats a big difference to me because if I saw a WAR developer on the street I would probably not kick him in the balls. On the other hand if I saw an AoC developer on the street...
On the contrary.
Performance, Itemisation, non-responsive combat, broken class skills.
Both games have these issues in abundance, yet you say they are not similar as I suggested?
I have a suggestion for you - Specsavers.
And btw, I am not saying that WAR is a perfect game without issues, I just felt the need to give you another perspective on some of the issues you raised.
Whats a white lion?
I've seen a total of 3 WL's over level 20 on my sever.. lol and they are complete shit, most useless class dps wise their is, and how the commit to their mirror, marauder, i have no clue.
Play a WH and then a WE and come back and comment.
1. Combat is OK. Nothing wrong with it whatsoever except standard lag problems with fresh netcode and that glitch with unreliablemorale abilites to be fixed in 1.06.
2. The game is rock solid stable to me. In fact I had more ctds in WoW 1 year after release then I have with war now. Some people might experience more instability but that is something normal and to be polished with time.
3. Itemisation is a bit off in higher tiers... but nothing I could shake my stick at. I'm lvl 32 SM and heven't seen a weird stat on an item yet. This has been on to-do list for december patch.
4. Complete nonsense. Where do you get that crap? There is not one true statement in this whole paragraph.
5. I don't give a rat's ass what happened to AoC. If you were so naive to buy that game when it was plain obvious that it would suck way before the release (if you didn't buy the hype that is) that doesn't mean all other games will suck. This is a pure ego game - if one girl hurt me then all girls are evil. WAR is very very playable - you speak nonsense.
6. Vague, don't know what to say to flat statements like this except another flat statment from me - "All in all WAR will succeed, Mythic have learned a lot from their DAoC mistakes as is evident in the way patching is done. I think there is great future in store for WAR."
As for "fat greedy moneymen" you are really unjustly insulting and completely wrong. The enthusiasm evident in each and every detail in WAR is tremendous and the "quick in quick out" is total crap too. They've got 5 years of expansions already planned in advance and in pre-production. They actually factored in expansions into their existing game design - no spaceships crashing on mysterious islands that weren't there before.
{ Mod Edit }
Unlike Funcom's AoC, if Mythic's Warhammer gets better I would gladly resub. With War I felt like I got my initial moneys worth out of the game. AoC on the other hand, I felt like someone robbed me out of $100. As long as Funcom owns AoC, I will never go back to that garbage no matter how much better it gets. Btw...every week AoC hits new lows on xfire. I doubt anything they do will make people return.
p.s. Funcom's stock has hit yet another all time low today. 2.90 NK
Played both AOC and WAR. I resubbed for AOC and cancelled WAR.
Although WAR has less technical problems then AOC at release, the gameplay, animations and overall game design is worse IMO. I see much more promise for AOC.
---------------------------------------
Opinions are like assholes - everyone has one and they all stink
Since when did a person have to be level 40 to understand the game mechanics? It doesn't even change much at 40, if at all.....
Nice try on trolling though. Do yourself a favour and look up opinions in the dictionary.
1. Combat is OK. Nothing wrong with it whatsoever except standard lag problems with fresh netcode and that glitch with unreliablemorale abilites to be fixed in 1.06.
2. The game is rock solid stable to me. In fact I had more ctds in WoW 1 year after release then I have with war now. Some people might experience more instability but that is something normal and to be polished with time.
3. Itemisation is a bit off in higher tiers... but nothing I could shake my stick at. I'm lvl 32 SM and heven't seen a weird stat on an item yet. This has been on to-do list for december patch.
4. Complete nonsense. Where do you get that crap? There is not one true statement in this whole paragraph.
5. I don't give a rat's ass what happened to AoC. If you were so naive to buy that game when it was plain obvious that it would suck way before the release (if you didn't buy the hype that is) that doesn't mean all other games will suck. This is a pure ego game - if one girl hurt me then all girls are evil. WAR is very very playable - you speak nonsense.
6. Vague, don't know what to say to flat statements like this except another flat statment from me - "All in all WAR will succeed, Mythic have learned a lot from their DAoC mistakes as is evident in the way patching is done. I think there is great future in store for WAR."
As for "fat greedy moneymen" you are really unjustly insulting and completely wrong. The enthusiasm evident in each and every detail in WAR is tremendous and the "quick in quick out" is total crap too. They've got 5 years of expansions already planned in advance and in pre-production. They actually factored in expansions into their existing game design - no spaceships crashing on mysterious islands that weren't there before.
{ Mod Edit }
You are level 32, and you know nothing. If you think the combat system is ok, then it says how much you suck as a gamer.
Your post is invalid, as are you as a person.
Combat system:
the tactile part: nothing is broken here. Maybe, very maybe somehwhat clunky (I'd say it's a lag / scruffy netcode thing) but nothing really game-breaking. If compared with online FPSs and WoW it is a not as fluid.. but standing on its own it is absolutely adequate. I'd say it's like WoW with a bit higher lag times, nothing more.
the skills/game part: simply awesome. I'm a group player and each 2-man combo is completely different in style. The game is heaven-sent for people into group play, class synergies etc.
Personal attack: been playing games since ZX speccy days, programmed a few myself, got a huge collection of board games and pen-and-paper rpgs. The second game I play atm is Quake Wars with occasional COD4. My favorite class/archetype: support/healer. I play games to have fun, preferably with people I know in RL, and what I most enjoy is variability in problems presented to me - hence I prefer PvP. For stories I read books and if I want to pwnface ego games I come to these forums
. No, I do not have any serious mental or psychological disadvantages that I'm aware of.
ths thread = useless, dont know why threads like this don't get locked. nothing constructive at all. f you dont like the game dont play it, how hard is that?
WAR is unfixable because if it were to be fixed, it would be a completely different game.
The problems with WAR and AoC are not even close to the same. They both may have some serious flaws, but different flaws which become apparent in different ways at different times.
AoC was boned up from day one. Even before day one in beta it was boned. The majority of the beta testers (I was one) were furious with the game and were telling Funcom it was not ready for release by a long shot. Funcom ignored this and released a broken, unfinished product which did not even come close to living up to the hype. AoC bombed instantly from release.
The difference with WAR is that it atleast lasted a few months before the groaning, complaining and mass exodus out of the game happened. This is because the issues with WAR were different. It is not broken or unfinished. It merely lacks long term appeal. It bombed slowly over the course of time, much like Tabula Rasa did.
The big difference between AoC and WAR is also in the attitude of the developers and gamers. AoC is an awful game which sucks on every possible level and Funcom lied about this fact, much to the dismay of many people. WAR on the other hand is just kind of a mediocre game which didn't hold appeal for very long. Thats a big difference to me because if I saw a WAR developer on the street I would probably not kick him in the balls. On the other hand if I saw an AoC developer on the street...
On the contrary.
Performance, Itemisation, non-responsive combat, broken class skills.
Both games have these issues in abundance, yet you say they are not similar as I suggested?
I have a suggestion for you - Specsavers.
It seems you totally missed my point. I'm sure both games have a FEW problems in common. But in the grand scheme of things both games have many different problems and those problems that they do have in common are for different reasons and cause difficulty for players at different points in the game.
So again: The main difference between AoC and WAR is that AoC bombed instantly upon release (Shadowbane style) while WAR actually lasted a few months before bombing due to a lack of long term appeal (Tabula Rasa style).
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
I think WAR =...WAR.
Could it really be that a game could stand alone and not exactly copy one game completely!? NOOOO!!!
Mythic made a game that is fun and enjoyable and there are a few who resent this because they're bored of their current MMO and WAR doesn't work on their computer (I had the same thing) or love their MMO to death and don't want any other MMO to beat theirs.
WAR does not equal to AoC especially because AoC was a huge disappointment to many people who bought the CE and because of that many people hesitated to buy WAR. Give it time maybe 3-4 more months and a trial account and you may see WAR shine or be completely in ruin because you like the idea of war and PvP.
Purpose in life is not to gain things, but experience. - Rover64dd
This whole topic is overdramatized. WAR is nowhere near as problematic as AOC. remeber AOC didn't fix wasted 4 months doing piss poor patching, balancing and adding voice actiong. WAR in month has addressed HUGE issues like the chat features and continue to adress them. these are 2 completely different beast here.
WAR is fixable. Fix its animations, responsivness, and content. AOC is not fixable. THE COMBAT SYSTEM ONLY WORKS FOR PVE!! that great feature called "Active Blocking" is not even used. Why? Because people actulaly move aorund in combat and strafe. so when a warrior performs a combo, the mage merely has to walk away and watch as the warrior swing like a madman at the air. That is failed combat mechanics. Other failed ocmbat mechanics. endurance usage. A fighter must use endurance to perform combos and sprit. a mage uses endurance to just sprint. Therefore a mage can easily wear down a fight by simplly running away and casting. LAME!!! We also have pet classes who cannot use their pets to tank or take aggro, BUT those pet classes get a ton of abilities to reduce aggro on their pets.......the same pets that already generate absolutley no aggro.
BALANCE. Le'ts see, WAR has an overpowered DPS class. AOC has overpowered healer classes who OUT DPS THE DPSERS!!! Dark Templar are still a joke in DPs and tanking. They are just worthless paladins with horrible gear choices. LvL 40 combat in WAR is actually intense and sometimes long. Lvl 80 combat in AoC last about 5 seconds and most of it is a 1 or 2 hit kill.....due to bad scaling and itemization. AOC had one good class done to perfection. Bear SHaman. That was my only reason I played the game for 3 months.
People here seem to have forgotten funcoms blatant lies. Remeber we were supposed to have DirectX 10, and huge PvP seige battles. We finally have seige battles that work, too bad the an instance can only support 70 people at most before everyone lags out and crashes. Still no directX 10 though. What is WAR mssing? A few classes and some capital cities. The game is quite payable and fun without em. Anyone remeber Funcom censoring critism of their game? Don't you people remeber how impossible it was to get any real customer support? no phone numbers and piss poor email response.
Oh and people have apearently hacked & exploited AOc features already. I haven't heard of any gem duping in WAR that stayed ingame for 2 or 3 months without punishment to the exploiters.
I really think some of you have the memory of a gold fish when it comes to yoru MMOs. WAR, with its problems, are nothing ocmpared to AOC.
My only experience of AoC was the open beta so it's difficult for me to talk about the state of the game as it is right now.
Both AoC and WAR have their positives/negatives.I`m currently playing WAR and like many has said I`m just feeling bored because the world is not immersive,the world is not alive.The game simply don't live up to the hype and I do feel that Mythic has just missed what could have been a great MMO.Their dungeons are just lame,they should have take a closer look to WoW/Vanguard dungeons if they want to have a decent high level PvE dungeon. Some characters animations are simply lame.I`m a R36 WP and it's no fun to see my character animations freeze in mid action while the sound keeps going on or having tactics not working as intended.
All Keeps from Tier 2 to Tier 4 are identical as if they have being copied/pasted..ground floor /stairs/ second floor with keep lord and upper floor
I have been having ctd since patch 1.02 and honestly I can`t stand it anymore. I don`t know if the game can be fixed but I`ll wait 3-4 months and see what they gonna do.
I`ve been following AoC progression during the past months and the new Game Director seems to be on the right track so I'll give the game a shot not only because of the game director but Hyboria is alive.I watched a friend play the game and there are places + the music which make it Epic.All Aoc characters are bad ass compared to WAR where only Destro has been having love from Mythic.I`m not naive to believe Aoc is flawless,it certainly has its flaws but I like the escapism and I do feel that the game will be what it was meant to be in a few months.
To game devs,I really hope you have learned from the mistakes of Vanguard/AoC/War,if your game is not ready don`t release it or you will bite the dust and to players stop supporting poor designed/unfinished games by pre ordering collector's edition.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...