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Training seems SLOW
Devastati0n
Member Posts: 93
What do I mean by slow? Look at this video.
http://video.mmosite.com/display.php?vid=9137&gid=422
seems like it took the guy about 30 seconds to kill a single monster, seriously that looked really slow and hardly any action going on. Is this game going to be an AOE train or are we going to single mob like this since there is not really any potion spamming you have to sit for minutes to regen. The magic aura on the attacks dont look too detailed... I mean the graphics when you do a spell seem dull not enough lighting and cool effects that attract most people. But, seriously didnt that training seem slow and boring? It isnt just that guy there are about ten more videos that look that slow.
The game looks great in the rest of the areas, they should decrease Monster HP, decrease the cool down time in spells and decrease the mana consumption that would be an easy fix to speed up the action feeling. ----If this game looks slow to me your wondering what is fast to me? Look at the video below--- Blade and soul another NCSOFT title using the unreal engine--- yeah its an MMORPG
http://feature.mmosite.com/content/2008-07-31/20080731004136040,1.shtml
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Current classic RPG: Breath of fire II
MMORPGs Played: ArchLord, SilkRoad, World Of Warcraft, Anarchy Online, Astonia, DarkEden, Dungeon Runners, Lineage, Lineage 2, Everquest II, Fury, Guild wars, Knight Online, MapleStory, Metin, Metin 2, Rappelz, City Of heroes, City of Villains, RF Online, ROSE Online, requiem, SUN, Trickster.
Waiting for: Aion
Comments
Look here instead , its a live stream. B&S is years away so why follow it now.
www.mogulus.com/hellbound
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
o.0
The animations and spell effects cant possibly be any shiner and flashy. Its almost to a point where it feels a bit exaggerated.I dont agree with you.
Aion is strongly group-favored. The monsters are harder to kill and thus also takes longer to kill. This wasnt even in the abyss, where the really hard and rewarding monsters are. You will probably be much better off in a team, which encourages players to be more social. And thats a good thing.
As for the video being slow.. I agree, but thats cuz of the boring music. Watch it with some faster, higher tempo music, and its suddenly not so slow anymore ;p
In fact, Ive been watching a lot of livestreams of people playing and the combat is extremely fast and flashy. The fights also last longer than in comparable games, and it definitely looks harder. Those are all good things. With the combos there is also a lot of nice variations, and different spells and abilities will be more/less efficient against different monsters/players.
There is no 1 or 2 shot kills (see silkroad) in this game. Some mobs are easy and some at the same lvl can be hard. Easy to solo on the easy one's but the harder one's give the best drops. And some areas require a Party. You don't want to go into these areas thinking you can solo it, because its not gonna happen.
I know because I died 3 times trying to solo these areas before I got the point
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Great only one thing---- high FANTASY so you want realism? The effects are just a red line moving.... aion training is slow and the action is slow yet it remains hard to play solo--- I watched that stream the guy died to 1 mob in 5 seconds. Sorry, music does not give me an adrenaline boost when I played games 5 X faster than this before. Comparable games?---- the game wasnt ment for harddcore---I do not want to spend 30 seconds on ONE mob nor do I want to have 5 people training with me---- simple lower the MOB HP, lower the cool down time, lower MP consumption.
Yes, I am a harddcore player, but this seems boring I usually spend 5 hours a day training for one level
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Current classic RPG: Breath of fire II
MMORPGs Played: ArchLord, SilkRoad, World Of Warcraft, Anarchy Online, Astonia, DarkEden, Dungeon Runners, Lineage, Lineage 2, Everquest II, Fury, Guild wars, Knight Online, MapleStory, Metin, Metin 2, Rappelz, City Of heroes, City of Villains, RF Online, ROSE Online, requiem, SUN, Trickster.
Waiting for: Aion
I'm actually loving that you need to fight with your enemy for good other then killin each other in seconds.
In Aion, even the simplest mobfight requires playerskills, if you are not paying attention, you die.
It gives extreme strategy to the game and let you enjoy your duels and battles for long.
And since you are not required to kill 200/400 mobs/level as it is not a grind game and large portion of quests are not about killin monsters, it is totally reasonable.
I can just hope ppl will not make NCsoft to lower current rates for the EU/US release.
There is no skill to dieing in 2 seconds--- you need a party as of right now or there is no way
Im not asking for 5 second kills here I mean if it was maybe like an AOE hold of 5 mobs at once in 30 seconds that could seem a little more fun, but right now the damage they do and the HP they have it is impossible.
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Current classic RPG: Breath of fire II
MMORPGs Played: ArchLord, SilkRoad, World Of Warcraft, Anarchy Online, Astonia, DarkEden, Dungeon Runners, Lineage, Lineage 2, Everquest II, Fury, Guild wars, Knight Online, MapleStory, Metin, Metin 2, Rappelz, City Of heroes, City of Villains, RF Online, ROSE Online, requiem, SUN, Trickster.
Waiting for: Aion
Have you played the game, or are you baseing you opinion on a video alone? I did not watch the video but I can assume we do not know the level of the mob vs the level of the player. So If the player is fighting a tough monster then ya you should expect a long fight. On the other hand if he is fighting a mob that is suposed to be group content then ya he should be having a hard time. I just wish people would actually play the game before calling for the devs to nerf/buff aspects of the game. Thankfully Aion is targeted more at the asian market so NCSoft will be less likly to hear the cries from the western WoW'bies because its not like WoW. Also keep in mind that this game may not be for you. Aion Will not make every MMO'er happy. No MMO will make all MMO'ers happy. For me Aion is a last hope for me to find a decent PvE/PvP MMO with some difficulty level to it. So many MMO's these days are a cake walk, your spoon feed everything, no real sense of accomplishment. So in short if intrested in Aion give it a try. If your not intrested, go find a game that excites you.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
This. I want MORE of this.
A return to the "we" era of games instead of the "me" solo would be good. Or at least a counterbalance to the influx of solo-friendly things. Team building and cooperation.. what a concept! Getting to know who you are actually grouping with for an hour or two? How novel!
I dunno if any of you played FFXI, but you'd have a team of 6 people on a monster that was VT that took you on average, 45 mins to 1 min to kill. And if you slipped a little, someone was gonna die. Add a link? Either you have good CC or you wipe maybe. There was no 10 sec battles like most of the mobs now.
I am playing LOTRO atm. and while its a good game, I can kill a mob that is 4-6 levels higher than me in less than 30 seconds, solo. Thats insanely easy. I sure hope they don't put that ease into this game.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Ok, lets talk realism.
If you met a guy on the street and got into a fight, and that guy was EVEN MATCH to you, how FAST do you think the fight would be over? 10 secs? no. It would be a knockdown, dragout fight and last awhile. Why? Because its,, say it... EVEN match.
Now, if hes lower than you, you should be able to trounch him easily. Why? He's EASY match. But you shouldn't then go back to your buddies bragging, they'd laugh you out the room. So you get no good exp or drop from a EASY fight.
Now, if you square off against a guy 75 lbs or more than you, with better stronger skills, do you think IF you can beat him, it should be done in less than than a minute? No. Why? He's stronger than you. If you beat this guy, by some miracle, then your buddies will definitely give you some props. If you could possibly beat him, it should damn near kill you, each and every time. Thats realistic. But your buddies can beat those VERY TOUGH guys too, they'll say.. "So what dude? Anyone can solo those guys, they aren't all that hard."
You have to inject realism into your want for battle. EASY, EVEN MATCH, TOUGH, VERY TOUGH. All have their place, and you should be very hard pressed to fight a TOUGH guy solo, and no chance to beat a VT by yourself.
Thats just not realistic. It's dumbing down mobs and content so people can feel like they are "the man".
"TO MICHAEL!"
Great only one thing---- high FANTASY so you want realism? The effects are just a red line moving.... aion training is slow and the action is slow yet it remains hard to play solo--- I watched that stream the guy died to 1 mob in 5 seconds. Sorry, music does not give me an adrenaline boost when I played games 5 X faster than this before. Comparable games?---- the game wasnt ment for harddcore---I do not want to spend 30 seconds on ONE mob nor do I want to have 5 people training with me---- simple lower the MOB HP, lower the cool down time, lower MP consumption.
Yes, I am a harddcore player, but this seems boring I usually spend 5 hours a day training for one level
Hardcore player, eh? Really?
You sound like a solo player who can't recognize himself. Sure you play 5 hours a day, but that does not make you hardcore when you choose to be solo. Lowering HP, Lowering MP consumption, are all signs that you want a casual game, not a challenge. And this is exactly why every latest MMO has been branded the "WoW" clone. Should games just keep catering to this "easy" gamestyle or what? I think Aion looks good, and will definitly be giving it a try. I hope it is cchallenging, and I hope mobs are hard to kill.
Originally posted by popinjay
Im not asking for 5 second kills here I mean if it was maybe like an AOE hold of 5 mobs at once in 30 seconds that could seem a little more fun, but right now the damage they do and the HP they have it is impossible.
Ok, lets talk realism.
If you met a guy on the street and got into a fight, and that guy was EVEN MATCH to you, how FAST do you think the fight would be over? 10 secs? no. It would be a knockdown, dragout fight and last awhile. Why? Because its,, say it... EVEN match.
Now, if hes lower than you, you should be able to trounch him easily. Why? He's EASY match. But you shouldn't then go back to your buddies bragging, they'd laugh you out the room. So you get no good exp or drop from a EASY fight.
Now, if you square off against a guy 75 lbs or more than you, with better stronger skills, do you think IF you can beat him, it should be done in less than than a minute? No. Why? He's stronger than you. If you beat this guy, by some miracle, then your buddies will definitely give you some props. If you could possibly beat him, it should damn near kill you, each and every time. Thats realistic. But your buddies can beat those VERY TOUGH guys too, they'll say.. "So what dude? Anyone can solo those guys, they aren't all that hard."
You have to inject realism into your want for battle. EASY, EVEN MATCH, TOUGH, VERY TOUGH. All have their place, and you should be very hard pressed to fight a TOUGH guy solo, and no chance to beat a VT by yourself.
Thats just not realistic. It's dumbing down mobs and content so people can feel like they are "the man".
Nice metaphor and I agree with you 100%. I don't want to kill something that's at my level too fast. There's no fun in that.
Additionally, this kind of system promotes teamwork. Let's admit it, why group up if you can just solo everything with little consequences? Teamplay is the number one reason I play MMORPGS.
Great only one thing---- high FANTASY so you want realism? The effects are just a red line moving.... aion training is slow and the action is slow yet it remains hard to play solo--- I watched that stream the guy died to 1 mob in 5 seconds. Sorry, music does not give me an adrenaline boost when I played games 5 X faster than this before. Comparable games?---- the game wasnt ment for harddcore---I do not want to spend 30 seconds on ONE mob nor do I want to have 5 people training with me---- simple lower the MOB HP, lower the cool down time, lower MP consumption.
Yes, I am a harddcore player, but this seems boring I usually spend 5 hours a day training for one level
Hardcore player, eh? Really?
You sound like a solo player who can't recognize himself. Sure you play 5 hours a day, but that does not make you hardcore when you choose to be solo. Lowering HP, Lowering MP consumption, are all signs that you want a casual game, not a challenge. And this is exactly why every latest MMO has been branded the "WoW" clone. Should games just keep catering to this "easy" gamestyle or what? I think Aion looks good, and will definitly be giving it a try. I hope it is cchallenging, and I hope mobs are hard to kill.
+1, Read the thread and wondered when someone was going to say something about it
Good job!
OP reminds me of the kind of people I left WoW to get away from. I hope Aion's not flooded with them.
IMO the OP has some merit... if I want challenge and group action, there are instances, public quests, raids, etc. If as the OP mentioned, the video indicates regular mobs that you kill for quests and whatnot, it'll shut out a lot of the casual players.
Often times I logon for an hour or two and I really just want to hop on and quest right away. If a normal mob's difficulty requires me to look for a party for half an hour just to kill it, than yeah, this game isn't for me. I prefer to play MMO's on the side, not play to live - or live to play for the matter.
For me, I game not for the challenge, but to relax... I don't want to stress out with hard content and possible emo kids. If I wanted the challenge and constant stress, I'd be playing an FPS. Aion should cater to both audiences... those that want social interactions, and those that just want to solo.
Just my opinion.
Well it seems that the skill of the player and the efficiency of his/her tactics can overcome even tough monsters in solo-play. Elites and whatnot are a different story, I guess.
Burning in the depths of the pits of darkness let the fires of hell take you!
Let the fires become my sword and strike you down! Venom!
Seems to me that what the OP wants is yet another Asian Grinder, and NCSoft has promised us that Aion will not be one of those games.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
At times it does take skill depending on the mob (stun, then move behind your enemy in order to get a crit from the back) or time a skill so you can disrupt his cast.
Yes it takes longer to kill a mob compared to archlord or silkroad....lol
but the skills and movement are fast and fluid.
So if you like a game that you can kill a mob in 3 sec's that gives little or no reward you may want to look somewhere else. Because aion is a little harder than that.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
For anyone, if your gaming habits are along the lines of this fella (or gal), you would do well to stick with WESTERN game makers. The asian companies do NOT soft sell to the casual player. There are no easy mobs in most of these games, and the endgame takes a good, LONG while to get to. Western games like Wow, War, Lotro, and the like cater to 'easier' gameplay overall. If you were raised on these games, this game will not be for you. There is no "catering to both audiences" here or with most of them. Just be warned of that right now, this far out from release and do NOT say no one told you.
The market has been proven overseas that games like this will prosper so they won't feel the need to dumb it down. They don't build games for your relaxing pleasure. They will not worry when everyone in the US doesnt run to Aion. They don't care, this game will already have been a hit overseas so they will make their money. It will do just like FFXI was in Japan; bigger market, so in the US, they could care less about making it Western friendly. They have a lot of integrity that way.
Btw, the emo kids he speaks of? They usually are the FIRST ones to run away from games with harder mobs like AION will have, because its too much work for them.
Final Fantasy XI had no emo kids, and thats because they honestly didn't have the attention span to level 1-75 in groups, with each mob averaging about 2 minutes a kill or such. Ask around, games like this one usually has way higher adult levels playing than under 30s.
*NOTE: I am NOT talking about the 'cash shop' games like 2Moons, PerfectWorld, Archlord, RF Online, Silkroad, Rappelz, Shaiya etc. Those are solo player games mainly.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Holy hell I didnt expect some sort of negative response that insulted me..... harddcore can mean so many things and aion was suppose to be made casuel and harddcore I see noobs die in 4 seconds on mobs the same level and yeah I played----dont bother responding back this community is nothing like I thought it would be
I got to the Cap level in 8 days---- no aion is not harddcore just boring
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Current classic RPG: Breath of fire II
MMORPGs Played: ArchLord, SilkRoad, World Of Warcraft, Anarchy Online, Astonia, DarkEden, Dungeon Runners, Lineage, Lineage 2, Everquest II, Fury, Guild wars, Knight Online, MapleStory, Metin, Metin 2, Rappelz, City Of heroes, City of Villains, RF Online, ROSE Online, requiem, SUN, Trickster.
Waiting for: Aion
For anyone, if your gaming habits are along the lines of this fella (or gal), you would do well to stick with WESTERN game makers. The asian companies do NOT soft sell to the casual player. There are no easy mobs in most of these games, and the endgame takes a good, LONG while to get to. Western games like Wow, War, Lotro, and the like cater to 'easier' gameplay overall. If you were raised on these games, this game will not be for you. There is no "catering to both audiences" here or with most of them. Just be warned of that right now, this far out from release and do NOT say no one told you.
The market has been proven overseas that games like this will prosper so they won't feel the need to dumb it down. They don't build games for your relaxing pleasure. They will not worry when everyone in the US doesnt run to Aion. They don't care, this game will already have been a hit overseas so they will make their money. It will do just like FFXI was in Japan; bigger market, so in the US, they could care less about making it Western friendly. They have a lot of integrity that way.
Btw, the emo kids he speaks of? They usually are the FIRST ones to run away from games with harder mobs like AION will have, because its too much work for them.
Final Fantasy XI had no emo kids, and thats because they honestly didn't have the attention span to level 1-75 in groups, with each mob averaging about 2 minutes a kill or such. Ask around, games like this one usually has way higher adult levels playing than under 30s.
*NOTE: I am NOT talking about the 'cash shop' games like 2Moons, PerfectWorld, Archlord, RF Online, Silkroad, Rappelz, Shaiya etc. Those are solo player games mainly.
Thanks for the clear up Jay.
One thing that I was lead to believe was that NCsoft has made it clear that their release of Aion have not only eastern (a given), but western markets in mind as well. Thus my misunderstanding towards the focus of the game's audience... please excuse me if this is the case.
However, having said that, I've read a lot of feedbacks from hardcore Lineage II fans that Aion did not fit to their taste... rather, WoW players in Korea felt the transition to Aion to be a lot smoother. Could this mean that NC is actually keeping to their words? Possibly.
Fact is, if NC does want to hit big in western markets (and if this really is their intention), it has to follow the tried and true formulas. In this case, making the game accessible to solo and group players alike. Making mobs so difficult that groupwork becoming a requirement seems that NC would be excluding a chunk of its potential market in the west... myself included.
I also read somewhere in Aionsource that 60% of WoW's 10 million subscribers are from Asia... indeed, WoW made its mark in Korea as well. This is a sign that not all asians are oblivious to western style mmos, rather, many that have experienced it prefers it to the traditional difficulty (and grind at times) of previous games such as Lineage. Here's hoping that NC does cater to both audiences.
Also, I'd like to argue your point about having a game that's soloable is 'dumbed' down. There are many ways developers can accomodate hardcore and casual gamers. In WoW for example, you can't reach 2200 rating and be the top 1% in competitive arenas or clear BT w/o having a solid guild/raid team effort with a 'dumbed' down game. Likewise, a casual gamer can logon at their own pace, solo quests, do a couple bgs, join a group for Kara, and even compete in arenas (albeit their ratings would be sub-1200s.)
The point I'm trying to get across is that with the right ingenuity, the game CAN cater to both audiences. I believe this is what WoW has done successfully (amongst various other factors) to become what it is today.
Finally, in terms of community, analism (and not just emo kids) isn't just limited to a casual player userbase... wait till you see how much elitism and crap attitude you see amongst hardcore players - it's fucking unbelievable. Although, admittedly different games have different age groups, but all games have their fair share of assholes.
Sorry for the wall of text.
Good points here. I did play WoW (3 70s then got tired) and I know what you mean pretty much.
I think the dumbed down version I talk about doesnt necesarily mean content or solo accessibility.
I have noticed with the games from that part of the world, the big focus is team play, and it only stands to reason that if you have 6 people beating on a mob, it won't last very long unless its HPs are ramped up. There really isn't a way to mix in low HP mobs with high HP mobs in a zone well.
In FFXI (I use this example a lot, maybe AION will be different) there were some easy mobs on the fringes, but usually lots of solo guys ate them fast, so most people sat around waiting for a few to respawn, which was SLOOOOOW. I played a Beastmaster to 75 which is the one true soloist there, not counting Summoner. That class could kill VT mobs solo, only because it used Tough mobs against it. The VT would almost kill the Tough, then you let it go and grab a fresh Tough, rinse/repeat till the VT died and you got the exp a group got. I think there will be class exceptions like this in AION, but I think by and large it will be groups.
Having mobs with high HPs helps the game as well. With easy mobs, people race through the content, then get bored at the end. Its a buffer for the game devs that gives them time between releases to fix bugs and come up with new ideas. This is one reason why Western games get chewed up and spit out so fast. Look at WoTLK. Just came out and people are flying to max level cause the mobs have hardly any Hps on them. It gives the player a sense of skill to level that fast, but its not really true. Then when they max, theyll say they are bored, the game was too easy and it sucked.
By keeping high mobs, it makes for a better game overall and gives space, which makes the game last. The building of teamwork and friendship amongst players is not a bad thing as well.
*(and dont worry about text wall; people will either read or not lol)
"TO MICHAEL!"
Just about every quest that involves killing monster has a max of 10. So you go and kill 10, get your reward and move on. You will NOT find a quest that says "kill 1K of monster XXX, repeatable 3 times"
So you are progressing through the map quit fast.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Uhm, no you didn't.
What's your char's name?
Well, that's the problem these days.
Everyone wants to make the game they want it to be. That's wrong! WAR and WOW by example are fairly easy and it attracts those people. If there are more games that are more challenging and are more complex which of course does not mean you have to spend 5 hours a day to be good, no you won't, it is just more challenging which is in my opinion great. The problem is , those people leave WOW and now want to make other games that are more challenging or less soloable more easy , more E-Z mode, more instant gratification.
That is wrong mate, there are plenty of games that are solo-able , easy . Now we want some more challenging games. Games that give you more freedom or games that aren't only a solo mmo. More groupbased like FFX or more sandbox like UO or more a game like old EQ which is more hardcore by example.
Please don't create every game into a E-Z mode mmo. The market is oversaturated with flops and clones, let's have a bit of difference in the mmo market please!
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the old days, the days of gold.
representer of euhporium, shade/amity , high member of the council.
played
UO,M59,EVE,L2,AC,GW,WOW,LOTRO,SWG pre cu/nge,COH/COV, VG,TR,L1, POTBS,Neocron 1 and 2, DAOC pre TOA and age of conan
playing: EVE ONLINE
Waiting for Earthrise, FE, bioware mmo, guild wars 2, DFO , mortal online , the chronicles of spellborn