If there are plenty of activities in RL that people manage quite happily on their own, why should MMOs be any different? That just wasn't an invitation for rude jokes, well partially maybe.
Sometimes people don't have time to look for a group or there might not be enough other players around. They might have been in one that just disbanded & only have a short time left before they have to logout.
If the OP had asked 'Why do some People only ever Solo' that would be different, but everyone goes solo at least some of the time. OK you can laugh again now.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
Hay, can you meet me on server "two shoes-RP" at 4:30 GMT, make sure you have the "AXE of armor soling" or we will have to do that quest first, and if you could, make sure you have potions:” Bobs a noob", "My Sword my life" and of course, "Run like a sissy" , 50000 gold should be enough for the 15 flight masters you will need to get to the "unrelated to what you are doing or any of your quests" area that I am in.
Don't forget to find a healer.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Honestly? Because I don't use voice apps, and it seems that everyone who groups uses voice. I don't want to be a burden to their method of playing, and I don't want to be put on the spot to have to explain why I don't use voice.
So I tend to play the only game I can: the solo game. I like to chat using text, and I like pick up groups (even the bad ones), but I've accepted the fact that my decision to not use voice makes guilds and serious grouping impossible.
I'm not alone, which is why there are so many soloers.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I like to solo, you can go wherever you want do anything you want , i dont have to go where the group wants to go. I f it becomes to hard I will find one or two people to play for awhile and then split. the only games I enjoyed grouping was City of Heroes and Guild Wars. To me mmorpgs are not social oppertunities to meet people but a fun game to play and level, if i talk with someone that is fine it is not a big part of my game. I dont join guilds or clubs, or lan parties , just here to have fun and soloing is alot of fun to me but like I said City of Heroes is more fun to group than solo
Why do people solo? Ever watch The Outlaw Josey Wales? Or maybe Gross Point Blanke?
I want to play in a world with other real people, I just don't want to always hold hands with them and skip down the Yellowbrick road to kill a dragon.
But sometimes I do want to join up with a posse and go smack something.
Here is my problem with the solo-vs-group argument:
Why are we mad at each other? I mean really.... what I want is a game that rewards me for grouping but doesn't punish me for soloing. A game where I can at least advance my character without assistance. Maybe I can't ever kill a big dragon on my own but at least I don't have to stand in a town, hat in hand, crying out for someone-anyone to help me get to level 3489. (sick of level grind - sorry)
I blame the game developers... there should be a way to reach a comfortable middle on this one.
When I started playing WoW at the beginning of this year, I soloed 95% of the time. Why? Because there was no one to level up with. Everyone was 70 and if people leveled alts to 70, they did it earlier than that. There is one reason why people solo.
Why do people solo? Ever watch The Outlaw Josey Wales? Or maybe Gross Point Blanke? I want to play in a world with other real people, I just don't want to always hold hands with them and skip down the Yellowbrick road to kill a dragon. But sometimes I do want to join up with a posse and go smack something. Here is my problem with the solo-vs-group argument: Why are we mad at each other? I mean really.... what I want is a game that rewards me for grouping but doesn't punish me for soloing. A game where I can at least advance my character without assistance. Maybe I can't ever kill a big dragon on my own but at least I don't have to stand in a town, hat in hand, crying out for someone-anyone to help me get to level 3489. (sick of level grind - sorry) I blame the game developers... there should be a way to reach a comfortable middle on this one.
Aye, these are all good and valid points, but my inquiry was not actually about people who mix and match their gaming, (which I do often). It was to find out if people were solo-ing more than normal, and only grouping if required, as this has been my experience for a few months now, and it seems that more and more devs are designing their games to be played in this fashion.
My point is; I'm probably one of the most casual players you will come across. When I do form groups, I do enjoy my game's session more on the whole, despite the gripes I mentioned in earlier posts. Now I was not sure if it was just the games I play most; WoW and even moreso Lotro; but it was seeming to me that everbody was just solo-ing. If this is true, then ultimately the genre will change. But I thought to myself one night, why am I paying to play this? I mean, MMORPG's should be the most imaginative and innovative games on the market, yet we get the same old crappy time-sink gameplay. game after game, Everything in these games is engineered to take us ages to get anywhere - just so that we will keep playing, which in turn makes for banal, mundane games. It's very frustrating. especially when you think what MMO's could be like in 10 years time or so (like espionage games which use photo-realistic and geographical cities - just an example, or virtual heade-sets that put you in the world), that kind of technology is coming, and this genre could be the best to put a use to it - (imagine a teamspeak, where your voice comes out as an orc's?).
However at the moment, I feel that the scene is stagnating, despite WoW's record sales. Yes, I am a casual player, but I don't want my game to spoon feed me. I mean, in the new expansion pack for Lotro- Mines of Moria, which is intended for level 50-60, I had entered Moria at level 46 and had done several quests, got to 47, done some more (all solo) before no more quest givers would give me any more until I am a higher level. Far too easy, and so no need to group. No grouping - less and less society - which leads to what? People paying to play a banal game just to 'compete' with a bunch of strangers? Jez - these dev's make their money easy.
I'll generally solo more than not because I just dont feel like having to deal with other people's problems and want to get on with playing the game. Hate sitting around wasting gaming time waiting for some other person to get their act together. Also it tends to be easier to play if you dont have to worry about someone else aggroing stuff or just making mistakes.
And lastly, 99% of crafters are solo players in exactly the same way as someone who goes off to adventure solo. Both do their thing, then come back to town, hit the markets, deal with the community in some form or other, then go back to doing their thing.
When I started playing WoW at the beginning of this year, I soloed 95% of the time. Why? Because there was no one to level up with. Everyone was 70 and if people leveled alts to 70, they did it earlier than that. There is one reason why people solo.
Honestly, I'd say it would have to be your server. Every time I've started a new character (which I do regularly), the beginning zones are teeming with other people leveling; either new players, or people like me rolling alts.
------------------------------------------------------------ You can't win - if you strike me down I shall respawn more powerful than you could possibly imagine!
Originally posted by Majestico You keep refering to me having some sort of 'problem' trying to figure out about solo-ing. Have you actually read any of my posts?
Don't know about the guy you were talking to in that post, but the one that you addressed to me: yes I read your post, but something more than a geniune "I'm curious why..." came out of your question. TBH, it comes even off as underhanded.
If you truly love solo games, and must ask why solo games don't transfer well into MMOs, research the mechanics why (not ask why folks themselves want to play solo as an afterthought).
In solo games there's tons of hand tweaked AI (and it's getting better and better each year). For whatever reason MMO developers don't include that into MMOs, but instead code for basically a deathmatch encounter with a boss and his adds (probably because it's easier to code and keep up, and they want a squad or platoon to take down the beastie). This is what FPS games basically have, and that will tell you how and why MMOs have become FPS extensions (and poor ones at that).
Soloers have 1001 reason for not wanting to group, and because MMORPGs are suppose to be about character progression (not "lewtz" runs), more so. I don't want to spend my days racing through content, I want to spend them enjoying the FULL content (and not be left out for wanting too, either).
And lastly, 99% of crafters are solo players in exactly the same way as someone who goes off to adventure solo. Both do their thing, then come back to town, hit the markets, deal with the community in some form or other, then go back to doing their thing.
Amen.
If you're a dedicated crafter and seller, the game is a solo enterprise. When I played EQ2, the guild owner has 3 accounts, and that's about 30 crafters. He spends his days and nights leveling them, and has a goal of controlling the market (or most of it). That's his game. He chit chats, and sometimes comes out to help, but his game play is crafting and the market. Same can be said of countless others with a great tradeskill side to their MMO.
Still hoping for a MMO with a tradeskill side that's just as dedicated as the adventure side (with the best gear made by true professionals, not just anyone powerleveling), nor just tacked on as an afterthought to appease some crafters (and treating them like dirt with crappy stuff to make -- and thinking crafting is putting the mats inbetween mobs).
Plus..if you do group with several people..it might take longer to get the quest done by the time half the group says "brb..restroom,baby,phone,doorbell,beer,food,guild,wife,husband,reboot,ect" . You get the idea.
Another thing that gets on my nerves while grouping is people looting while they should be fighting . Them little loot pop up windows can get you killed sometimes especially if you have most of the ag. All the group should kill all the mob first and then loot after.
Anyway.. I do like grouping sometimes if it's with the right people. It's just hard to find the right people sometimes.
Another thing that gets on my nerves while grouping is people looting while they should be fighting . Them little loot pop up windows can get you killed sometimes especially if you have most of the ag. All the group should kill all the mob first and then loot after. Anyway.. I do like grouping sometimes if it's with the right people. It's just hard to find the right people sometimes.
God, I wish I could give you a beer for mentioning that. That loot popup can be so darn annoying (especially if they're looting a mob you just AoEed to death). Worse, in a rush to get the loot, and not bother checking if folks are healed, and kill those who aren't healed enough to withstand the poison/damage from a booby-trapped lock (glad I played a Paladin, as the Divine Favor saved me from such player stupidity [as they tend to trip it as you're trying to heal yourself back up before another mob pops up on their sorry butts).
And lastly, 99% of crafters are solo players in exactly the same way as someone who goes off to adventure solo. Both do their thing, then come back to town, hit the markets, deal with the community in some form or other, then go back to doing their thing.
Amen.
If you're a dedicated crafter and seller, the game is a solo enterprise. When I played EQ2, the guild owner has 3 accounts, and that's about 30 crafters. He spends his days and nights leveling them, and has a goal of controlling the market (or most of it). That's his game. He chit chats, and sometimes comes out to help, but his game play is crafting and the market. Same can be said of countless others with a great tradeskill side to their MMO.
Still hoping for a MMO with a tradeskill side that's just as dedicated as the adventure side (with the best gear made by true professionals, not just anyone powerleveling), nor just tacked on as an afterthought to appease some crafters (and treating them like dirt with crappy stuff to make -- and thinking crafting is putting the mats inbetween mobs).
Exact;ly, and this is kind of the conclusion I was aiming for. If this trend continues, then I really believe that devs should consider alternative content for the solo player (or any player for that matter) which takes us away from the bog standard fight-level-fight-level routine which we have to endure the bulk of the time. Surely some creative developers could add some content that broke up this cycle, otherwise I don't see the point. Sure, it has taken me several years of going through nearly every MMO to figure this out, but everything is basically the same. Grouping allows this banal routine to be more fun as you are sharing your game with other people, and it can sometimes be a good laugh. But now that a lot of us are solo-ing most of the time, why won't dev's try something different for a change? A genuine alternative to the combat/level timesink. And by that, I don't include the crappy side quests which every MMO throws in during a holiday season. To me these are just lazy programs brought out every year at the particular festival, and which involve crap quests usually resulting with inane and stupid rewards. 'Oh look! I can turn my mount into a reindeer for 30 seconds!' oh brilliant! I remember a couple of years ago in EQ2, they still had the jingle bells theme playing well into febuary!
To tell the truth I don't even want holiday stuff in the game, as it breaks the immersion. EQ2's D.I.R.T.Y. side event was interesting, as it fit with the game, but hearing holiday music in a high fantasy game just spoils what the game is about.
If I knew how to program for a game, I'd be busy making that crafting/trading MMO. It would be a crafting and trading masterpiece, as it focuses on being the biggest capitalist on the internet -- forget grinding the dungeons for mythicals. Game will have the ability to export in .csv or Excel formats so traders can keep track of their stock, even. It'll be almost like being a day trader, complete with charts to follow the flow of items being sold and bought.
God, why hasn't a MMO publisher done this yet? It's unique. It's new. If successful could even be used in colleges to teach micro and macroeconomics. Everyone loves money, even the raider, pvper, the grouper and soloer.
And lastly, 99% of crafters are solo players in exactly the same way as someone who goes off to adventure solo. Both do their thing, then come back to town, hit the markets, deal with the community in some form or other, then go back to doing their thing.
Amen.
If you're a dedicated crafter and seller, the game is a solo enterprise. When I played EQ2, the guild owner has 3 accounts, and that's about 30 crafters. He spends his days and nights leveling them, and has a goal of controlling the market (or most of it). That's his game. He chit chats, and sometimes comes out to help, but his game play is crafting and the market. Same can be said of countless others with a great tradeskill side to their MMO.
Still hoping for a MMO with a tradeskill side that's just as dedicated as the adventure side (with the best gear made by true professionals, not just anyone powerleveling), nor just tacked on as an afterthought to appease some crafters (and treating them like dirt with crappy stuff to make -- and thinking crafting is putting the mats inbetween mobs).
Exact;ly, and this is kind of the conclusion I was aiming for. If this trend continues, then I really believe that devs should consider alternative content for the solo player (or any player for that matter) which takes us away from the bog standard fight-level-fight-level routine which we have to endure the bulk of the time. Surely some creative developers could add some content that broke up this cycle, otherwise I don't see the point. Sure, it has taken me several years of going through nearly every MMO to figure this out, but everything is basically the same. Grouping allows this banal routine to be more fun as you are sharing your game with other people, and it can sometimes be a good laugh. But now that a lot of us are solo-ing most of the time, why won't dev's try something different for a change? A genuine alternative to the combat/level timesink. And by that, I don't include the crappy side quests which every MMO throws in during a holiday season. To me these are just lazy programs brought out every year at the particular festival, and which involve crap quests usually resulting with inane and stupid rewards. 'Oh look! I can turn my mount into a reindeer for 30 seconds!' oh brilliant! I remember a couple of years ago in EQ2, they still had the jingle bells theme playing well into febuary!
Well, I don't know, I find combat exciting and I like it. I play these games to be some sort of warrior or Sorceror. I have no interest in anything else. I don't recall the chapter in the book where Elric mined ore and made ingots. Then set them to market.
I don't recall Conan weaving hats and trading for skins so that he could make gloves.
I don't recall the fellowship stopping to farm a bit.
I play for the adventure. Doesn't matter if it is solo or group. So sure, if the devs want to add addtional content for those people who like weaving or farming then fine. But If the game is not adventure based I pretty much know for sure I won't be playing it. And many more people for that matter.
I don't remember the last time I heard someone get excited about a game because it had ceramics or glass blowing as a major part of the game. This just smells of a hold over from the early days of swg. And as my friend said "it felt like a job... I already had a job... so I quit".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Sovrath I don't remember the last time I heard someone get excited about a game because it had ceramics or glass blowing as a major part of the game. This just smells of a hold over from the early days of swg. And as my friend said "it felt like a job... I already had a job... so I quit".
It's obvious that you don't do anything else in MMOs to notice, even in one game...
The guild owner of the guild I was in has 3 Station accounts, and every alt he has is a crafter, and the main is one of the most wealthiest players in EQ2. He's so hardcore, he bought another guild and powerleveling it basically by his army of alts, and those who he pays to help craft.
So yes, there are gamers who get all excited about crafting, and selling what they crafted.
You always get the best loot if you solo.. Plus..if you do group with several people..it might take longer to get the quest done by the time half the group says "brb..restroom,baby,phone,doorbell,beer,food,guild,wife,husband,reboot,ect" . You get the idea. Another thing that gets on my nerves while grouping is people looting while they should be fighting . Them little loot pop up windows can get you killed sometimes especially if you have most of the ag. All the group should kill all the mob first and then loot after. Anyway.. I do like grouping sometimes if it's with the right people. It's just hard to find the right people sometimes.
Truth.
While soloing has never really been my gig (i'm usually a healer) i can understand doing it...in FF Online i would take my WHM/BLK to Valkurm on my own and randomly help out a party or give out raises when needed, i know it sounds cheesy but i always felt like i was giving something back, i was there and i know how bad it could be especially those parties hunting Pugils.
Every once in awhile though i would get that vet group, didn't really need my help but hey, a high level white mage for back-up never hurts..these groups usually paid for services rendered, which wa always nice.
I don't remember the last time I heard someone get excited about a game because it had ceramics or glass blowing as a major part of the game. This just smells of a hold over from the early days of swg. And as my friend said "it felt like a job... I already had a job... so I quit".
It's obvious that you don't do anything else in MMOs to notice, even in one game...
The guild owner of the guild I was in has 3 Station accounts, and every alt he has is a crafter, and the main is one of the most wealthiest players in EQ2. He's so hardcore, he bought another guild and powerleveling it basically by his army of alts, and those who he pays to help craft.
So yes, there are gamers who get all excited about crafting, and selling what they crafted.
Ok that's great but what you really are talking about are a concentrated group of sellers and traders on one forum. Not spread out over the various types of games that they might be interested in. this is not to dismiss the fact that there are people who enjoy doing this but I don't see them filling up one whole game.
And yes "it's obvious" that I don't do anything else because I find crafting and sellng beyond tedious. I had 4+ years of selling and making money in Lineage 2. Most boring part of that game. Collecting bits so that I could make bits to then get more bits to make a larger bit to sell.
Sorry, but more power to you if that's what you like to do. I think I'd rather have some adventure and some exploring over collecting bits. It's almost akin to making spreadsheets to keep track of every area that one can find Cherry wood. Take that Dark Lord!
And again, I don't really see Conan, Elric, Gandalf, Fafhrd, Athos, Jason, etc crafting. I don't remember when I saw a young kid that said "oh boy, the new fanstasy sci-fi horror epic is out where there are 15 chapters of wheeling and dealing. After that there is wood collecting. None of that captures the excitement that is normally associated with this genre.
I think players who are crafters obviously love it and are pretty hardcore about it but I don't think you are in a majority of the gameplayers.
So "no" I don't see devs supplanting solo material so that it could be more crafter friendly. Add a more interesting crafting system where I can design (within a certain scope) weapons and armor and a mini-game to make it and then you've got me. Especially if we are talking about crafting real epic items.
There should be the slaying of a dragon in order to get the scales to make a great shield or set of armor. The conqering of a demon for his talons to forge a great spear. If anything, crafters should be bargaining with adventurers to procure these items for them.
I once had a neverwinter nights character generator. Part of it was the ability to pick weapons and change various parts (or armor) and color various parts. I would fool around with it for hours. Now THAT's crafting. It's creative. Crafting, real crafting is about creativity and artistry along with actual craftsmanship. I've yet to see anything close in these games.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
To be honest, I only read the first page and skimmed the second. I don't really have the time to read the full set of posts that have been made.
In my time as playing MMOs, I have found several reasons that I tend to solo.
Some games, it's just faster to solo and use the game as a chat mechanism, this is especially the case in the low levels when grouping/partying may not be common. I know in Final Fantasy XI, I always level from 1-10 on my own since very few people actually party during that time and the XP share wouldn't be worth while during those levels.
In World of Warcraft, I solo not because I wanted to, but because I had to. What I saw was that people solo everywhere. I'd go looking for instance parties and no one would do them except for the first one in Westfall. As the game grew older, fewer people played level 1-60 because everyone had level 70 (now working on level 80) characters. Because of this groups were a rare commodity from level 20-50ish, which is what really turned me away from the game.
LOTRO I soloed in just because there really wasn't a reason to party except when doing the storyline quests. Although I consider myself a casual player, I don't like spending most of my time soloing.
Those are really the only reasons that I ever played solo, though sometimes the reasons were carried over to other MMOs.
Let it be known that I hate WoW with a passion and will defend almost any MMORPG against it. Current: FFXI (PC/360) Want: FFXIV, Stargate Worlds, Star Trek Online Past: AC, AoC, AO, Atlantica Online, CoH/V, DAoC, Dungeon Runners, D&DO, EVE, Everquest I+II, FlyFF, GW (all), Lineage 2, LOTRO, Mabinogi, Maplestory, PSO (DC/Xbox/PC), PSU (PC/360), PlanetSide, RO, Shadowbane, SWG (Pre-NGE), SotNW, TR, UO, Warhammer Online, WoW, WWIIO
Yes, this is a leading question. I finally got a next-gen console and have been in heaven so far with Mass Effect, Fable II, Lost Odyessy, The Force Unleashed, and to a much lesser extent; Quake 4. Now as you may be aware from my sig, my main MMO at the moment is Lotro. Which I have noticed panders more and more towards the solo friendly player. Now before anyone bombards me with posts about Lotro being a casual friendly game, etxc, I alreadt know this. It was one of the reasons why I choose it. However, I have noticed more and more that this 'casual' style of play has been getting morphed more and more into the solo play tag. Whether by design or not, I just had to wonder why someone would choose to play an MMO mostly solo. And please bear in mind that hear is where the question is aimed. To those people who blindly ignore any other player, unless of course a quest is required. Oh, you need a party to finish off an epic story, then I'll grab a PUG, say very little. if anything, and then bugger off when the quest is done. Now, please do not answer with posts such as: 'well sometimes I like exploring and doing things on my own' that is very well, and I do it myself, or posts like 'well sometimes I only have an hour to play,'. Or the classic; 'I like to play in a MMO by myself, and like the idea that the other people are real!' - shy people in an environment that is geared towards you throwing off any social inhibidtions and allowing you to be anyone you want! So. strictly for those who I initially mentioned. The ones always solo, unless they absoloute;y have to group. Why? Is it some competitive thing? 'Look I can get to max just by solo'. What reason can there by that makes sense? Of course, it is your game, and you are entitled to play it any way you choose. But when I play so many great single player games, I have to wonder the incentive for the solo gamer. Serious answers will be appreciated, as I am genuinely interested.
you pretty much answered the question yourself.
i'm paying the same amount as anyone else to play a GAME and enjoy that GAME.
i'm not paying this monthly sub to be forced to play with basement dwellers, children, morons, drama queens, or any of the others that i've been forced to speak with and hang out with (on voice) for endless hours... in order to get the 'good stuff'.
i play as many, or more, hours than many raiders and such; why should i be forced to endlessly repeat the same boring content 50 times with people i honestly can't stand, in order to get the good stuff?
before some "genius" makes a comment about my going play single player games; please, point me to single player games that have the content and updates that eve online and city of heroes have.
if you can't point out single player games of those genre with the content, variety, and updates available in those two games; then your "play a single player game" retort is both moronic and idiotic.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Comments
I solo a lot and personally prefer it. Let's me go t my own pace and allows me to live longer. Groups ALWAYS get me killed.
For group content of course I will group up if need be...but I have no problem passing content that I cannot get a group for.
Why would people always Group?
If there are plenty of activities in RL that people manage quite happily on their own, why should MMOs be any different? That just wasn't an invitation for rude jokes, well partially maybe.
Sometimes people don't have time to look for a group or there might not be enough other players around. They might have been in one that just disbanded & only have a short time left before they have to logout.
If the OP had asked 'Why do some People only ever Solo' that would be different, but everyone goes solo at least some of the time. OK you can laugh again now.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
Take the Hecatomb? TCG What Is Your Doom? quiz.
Why Do People Solo?
Hay, can you meet me on server "two shoes-RP" at 4:30 GMT, make sure you have the "AXE of armor soling" or we will have to do that quest first, and if you could, make sure you have potions:” Bobs a noob", "My Sword my life" and of course, "Run like a sissy" , 50000 gold should be enough for the 15 flight masters you will need to get to the "unrelated to what you are doing or any of your quests" area that I am in.
Don't forget to find a healer.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Honestly? Because I don't use voice apps, and it seems that everyone who groups uses voice. I don't want to be a burden to their method of playing, and I don't want to be put on the spot to have to explain why I don't use voice.
So I tend to play the only game I can: the solo game. I like to chat using text, and I like pick up groups (even the bad ones), but I've accepted the fact that my decision to not use voice makes guilds and serious grouping impossible.
I'm not alone, which is why there are so many soloers.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I think there are alot of reasons why people solo....
1) the games tend to cater to soloing now-Once these games started showing up wehre you could solo quests then it changed teh MMO genre.
2) Hassle- Yes grouping is a hassle and not everyone wants to have to deal with party members going AFK all the time.
3) Loot- You get all the loot solo...No sharing the spoils and no mage rolling on that plate chestpiece youve been trying to get.
4. Time- YOu can log in and play for an hour solo and get alot done in most games......Grouping you can hardly get anything done in an hour.
5. Most games dont offer alot of incentive to group.....
I like to solo, you can go wherever you want do anything you want , i dont have to go where the group wants to go. I f it becomes to hard I will find one or two people to play for awhile and then split. the only games I enjoyed grouping was City of Heroes and Guild Wars. To me mmorpgs are not social oppertunities to meet people but a fun game to play and level, if i talk with someone that is fine it is not a big part of my game. I dont join guilds or clubs, or lan parties , just here to have fun and soloing is alot of fun to me but like I said City of Heroes is more fun to group than solo
Why do people solo? Ever watch The Outlaw Josey Wales? Or maybe Gross Point Blanke?
I want to play in a world with other real people, I just don't want to always hold hands with them and skip down the Yellowbrick road to kill a dragon.
But sometimes I do want to join up with a posse and go smack something.
Here is my problem with the solo-vs-group argument:
Why are we mad at each other? I mean really.... what I want is a game that rewards me for grouping but doesn't punish me for soloing. A game where I can at least advance my character without assistance. Maybe I can't ever kill a big dragon on my own but at least I don't have to stand in a town, hat in hand, crying out for someone-anyone to help me get to level 3489. (sick of level grind - sorry)
I blame the game developers... there should be a way to reach a comfortable middle on this one.
When I started playing WoW at the beginning of this year, I soloed 95% of the time. Why? Because there was no one to level up with. Everyone was 70 and if people leveled alts to 70, they did it earlier than that. There is one reason why people solo.
Playing:
Waiting for: Earthrise, SW:TOR
Aye, these are all good and valid points, but my inquiry was not actually about people who mix and match their gaming, (which I do often). It was to find out if people were solo-ing more than normal, and only grouping if required, as this has been my experience for a few months now, and it seems that more and more devs are designing their games to be played in this fashion.
My point is; I'm probably one of the most casual players you will come across. When I do form groups, I do enjoy my game's session more on the whole, despite the gripes I mentioned in earlier posts. Now I was not sure if it was just the games I play most; WoW and even moreso Lotro; but it was seeming to me that everbody was just solo-ing. If this is true, then ultimately the genre will change. But I thought to myself one night, why am I paying to play this? I mean, MMORPG's should be the most imaginative and innovative games on the market, yet we get the same old crappy time-sink gameplay. game after game, Everything in these games is engineered to take us ages to get anywhere - just so that we will keep playing, which in turn makes for banal, mundane games. It's very frustrating. especially when you think what MMO's could be like in 10 years time or so (like espionage games which use photo-realistic and geographical cities - just an example, or virtual heade-sets that put you in the world), that kind of technology is coming, and this genre could be the best to put a use to it - (imagine a teamspeak, where your voice comes out as an orc's?).
However at the moment, I feel that the scene is stagnating, despite WoW's record sales. Yes, I am a casual player, but I don't want my game to spoon feed me. I mean, in the new expansion pack for Lotro- Mines of Moria, which is intended for level 50-60, I had entered Moria at level 46 and had done several quests, got to 47, done some more (all solo) before no more quest givers would give me any more until I am a higher level. Far too easy, and so no need to group. No grouping - less and less society - which leads to what? People paying to play a banal game just to 'compete' with a bunch of strangers? Jez - these dev's make their money easy.
Because it dosnt matter if you die anyway?
No risks, no rewards. Not even friends.
I'll generally solo more than not because I just dont feel like having to deal with other people's problems and want to get on with playing the game. Hate sitting around wasting gaming time waiting for some other person to get their act together. Also it tends to be easier to play if you dont have to worry about someone else aggroing stuff or just making mistakes.
And lastly, 99% of crafters are solo players in exactly the same way as someone who goes off to adventure solo. Both do their thing, then come back to town, hit the markets, deal with the community in some form or other, then go back to doing their thing.
Ummm I solo when my friends aren't online and I can't get a pug going.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Honestly, I'd say it would have to be your server. Every time I've started a new character (which I do regularly), the beginning zones are teeming with other people leveling; either new players, or people like me rolling alts.
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You can't win - if you strike me down I shall respawn more powerful than you could possibly imagine!
Don't know about the guy you were talking to in that post, but the one that you addressed to me: yes I read your post, but something more than a geniune "I'm curious why..." came out of your question. TBH, it comes even off as underhanded.
If you truly love solo games, and must ask why solo games don't transfer well into MMOs, research the mechanics why (not ask why folks themselves want to play solo as an afterthought).
In solo games there's tons of hand tweaked AI (and it's getting better and better each year). For whatever reason MMO developers don't include that into MMOs, but instead code for basically a deathmatch encounter with a boss and his adds (probably because it's easier to code and keep up, and they want a squad or platoon to take down the beastie). This is what FPS games basically have, and that will tell you how and why MMOs have become FPS extensions (and poor ones at that).
Soloers have 1001 reason for not wanting to group, and because MMORPGs are suppose to be about character progression (not "lewtz" runs), more so. I don't want to spend my days racing through content, I want to spend them enjoying the FULL content (and not be left out for wanting too, either).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Amen.
If you're a dedicated crafter and seller, the game is a solo enterprise. When I played EQ2, the guild owner has 3 accounts, and that's about 30 crafters. He spends his days and nights leveling them, and has a goal of controlling the market (or most of it). That's his game. He chit chats, and sometimes comes out to help, but his game play is crafting and the market. Same can be said of countless others with a great tradeskill side to their MMO.
Still hoping for a MMO with a tradeskill side that's just as dedicated as the adventure side (with the best gear made by true professionals, not just anyone powerleveling), nor just tacked on as an afterthought to appease some crafters (and treating them like dirt with crappy stuff to make -- and thinking crafting is putting the mats inbetween mobs).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
You always get the best loot if you solo..
Plus..if you do group with several people..it might take longer to get the quest done by the time half the group says "brb..restroom,baby,phone,doorbell,beer,food,guild,wife,husband,reboot,ect" . You get the idea.
Another thing that gets on my nerves while grouping is people looting while they should be fighting . Them little loot pop up windows can get you killed sometimes especially if you have most of the ag. All the group should kill all the mob first and then loot after.
Anyway.. I do like grouping sometimes if it's with the right people. It's just hard to find the right people sometimes.
God, I wish I could give you a beer for mentioning that. That loot popup can be so darn annoying (especially if they're looting a mob you just AoEed to death). Worse, in a rush to get the loot, and not bother checking if folks are healed, and kill those who aren't healed enough to withstand the poison/damage from a booby-trapped lock (glad I played a Paladin, as the Divine Favor saved me from such player stupidity [as they tend to trip it as you're trying to heal yourself back up before another mob pops up on their sorry butts).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Amen.
If you're a dedicated crafter and seller, the game is a solo enterprise. When I played EQ2, the guild owner has 3 accounts, and that's about 30 crafters. He spends his days and nights leveling them, and has a goal of controlling the market (or most of it). That's his game. He chit chats, and sometimes comes out to help, but his game play is crafting and the market. Same can be said of countless others with a great tradeskill side to their MMO.
Still hoping for a MMO with a tradeskill side that's just as dedicated as the adventure side (with the best gear made by true professionals, not just anyone powerleveling), nor just tacked on as an afterthought to appease some crafters (and treating them like dirt with crappy stuff to make -- and thinking crafting is putting the mats inbetween mobs).
Exact;ly, and this is kind of the conclusion I was aiming for. If this trend continues, then I really believe that devs should consider alternative content for the solo player (or any player for that matter) which takes us away from the bog standard fight-level-fight-level routine which we have to endure the bulk of the time. Surely some creative developers could add some content that broke up this cycle, otherwise I don't see the point. Sure, it has taken me several years of going through nearly every MMO to figure this out, but everything is basically the same. Grouping allows this banal routine to be more fun as you are sharing your game with other people, and it can sometimes be a good laugh. But now that a lot of us are solo-ing most of the time, why won't dev's try something different for a change? A genuine alternative to the combat/level timesink. And by that, I don't include the crappy side quests which every MMO throws in during a holiday season. To me these are just lazy programs brought out every year at the particular festival, and which involve crap quests usually resulting with inane and stupid rewards. 'Oh look! I can turn my mount into a reindeer for 30 seconds!' oh brilliant! I remember a couple of years ago in EQ2, they still had the jingle bells theme playing well into febuary!
To tell the truth I don't even want holiday stuff in the game, as it breaks the immersion. EQ2's D.I.R.T.Y. side event was interesting, as it fit with the game, but hearing holiday music in a high fantasy game just spoils what the game is about.
If I knew how to program for a game, I'd be busy making that crafting/trading MMO. It would be a crafting and trading masterpiece, as it focuses on being the biggest capitalist on the internet -- forget grinding the dungeons for mythicals. Game will have the ability to export in .csv or Excel formats so traders can keep track of their stock, even. It'll be almost like being a day trader, complete with charts to follow the flow of items being sold and bought.
God, why hasn't a MMO publisher done this yet? It's unique. It's new. If successful could even be used in colleges to teach micro and macroeconomics. Everyone loves money, even the raider, pvper, the grouper and soloer.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Amen.
If you're a dedicated crafter and seller, the game is a solo enterprise. When I played EQ2, the guild owner has 3 accounts, and that's about 30 crafters. He spends his days and nights leveling them, and has a goal of controlling the market (or most of it). That's his game. He chit chats, and sometimes comes out to help, but his game play is crafting and the market. Same can be said of countless others with a great tradeskill side to their MMO.
Still hoping for a MMO with a tradeskill side that's just as dedicated as the adventure side (with the best gear made by true professionals, not just anyone powerleveling), nor just tacked on as an afterthought to appease some crafters (and treating them like dirt with crappy stuff to make -- and thinking crafting is putting the mats inbetween mobs).
Exact;ly, and this is kind of the conclusion I was aiming for. If this trend continues, then I really believe that devs should consider alternative content for the solo player (or any player for that matter) which takes us away from the bog standard fight-level-fight-level routine which we have to endure the bulk of the time. Surely some creative developers could add some content that broke up this cycle, otherwise I don't see the point. Sure, it has taken me several years of going through nearly every MMO to figure this out, but everything is basically the same. Grouping allows this banal routine to be more fun as you are sharing your game with other people, and it can sometimes be a good laugh. But now that a lot of us are solo-ing most of the time, why won't dev's try something different for a change? A genuine alternative to the combat/level timesink. And by that, I don't include the crappy side quests which every MMO throws in during a holiday season. To me these are just lazy programs brought out every year at the particular festival, and which involve crap quests usually resulting with inane and stupid rewards. 'Oh look! I can turn my mount into a reindeer for 30 seconds!' oh brilliant! I remember a couple of years ago in EQ2, they still had the jingle bells theme playing well into febuary!
Well, I don't know, I find combat exciting and I like it. I play these games to be some sort of warrior or Sorceror. I have no interest in anything else. I don't recall the chapter in the book where Elric mined ore and made ingots. Then set them to market.
I don't recall Conan weaving hats and trading for skins so that he could make gloves.
I don't recall the fellowship stopping to farm a bit.
I play for the adventure. Doesn't matter if it is solo or group. So sure, if the devs want to add addtional content for those people who like weaving or farming then fine. But If the game is not adventure based I pretty much know for sure I won't be playing it. And many more people for that matter.
I don't remember the last time I heard someone get excited about a game because it had ceramics or glass blowing as a major part of the game. This just smells of a hold over from the early days of swg. And as my friend said "it felt like a job... I already had a job... so I quit".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It's obvious that you don't do anything else in MMOs to notice, even in one game...
94+ pages of hardcore tradeskillers and sellers
The guild owner of the guild I was in has 3 Station accounts, and every alt he has is a crafter, and the main is one of the most wealthiest players in EQ2. He's so hardcore, he bought another guild and powerleveling it basically by his army of alts, and those who he pays to help craft.
So yes, there are gamers who get all excited about crafting, and selling what they crafted.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Truth.
While soloing has never really been my gig (i'm usually a healer) i can understand doing it...in FF Online i would take my WHM/BLK to Valkurm on my own and randomly help out a party or give out raises when needed, i know it sounds cheesy but i always felt like i was giving something back, i was there and i know how bad it could be especially those parties hunting Pugils.
Every once in awhile though i would get that vet group, didn't really need my help but hey, a high level white mage for back-up never hurts..these groups usually paid for services rendered, which wa always nice.
It's obvious that you don't do anything else in MMOs to notice, even in one game...
94+ pages of hardcore tradeskillers and sellers
The guild owner of the guild I was in has 3 Station accounts, and every alt he has is a crafter, and the main is one of the most wealthiest players in EQ2. He's so hardcore, he bought another guild and powerleveling it basically by his army of alts, and those who he pays to help craft.
So yes, there are gamers who get all excited about crafting, and selling what they crafted.
Ok that's great but what you really are talking about are a concentrated group of sellers and traders on one forum. Not spread out over the various types of games that they might be interested in. this is not to dismiss the fact that there are people who enjoy doing this but I don't see them filling up one whole game.
And yes "it's obvious" that I don't do anything else because I find crafting and sellng beyond tedious. I had 4+ years of selling and making money in Lineage 2. Most boring part of that game. Collecting bits so that I could make bits to then get more bits to make a larger bit to sell.
Sorry, but more power to you if that's what you like to do. I think I'd rather have some adventure and some exploring over collecting bits. It's almost akin to making spreadsheets to keep track of every area that one can find Cherry wood. Take that Dark Lord!
And again, I don't really see Conan, Elric, Gandalf, Fafhrd, Athos, Jason, etc crafting. I don't remember when I saw a young kid that said "oh boy, the new fanstasy sci-fi horror epic is out where there are 15 chapters of wheeling and dealing. After that there is wood collecting. None of that captures the excitement that is normally associated with this genre.
I think players who are crafters obviously love it and are pretty hardcore about it but I don't think you are in a majority of the gameplayers.
So "no" I don't see devs supplanting solo material so that it could be more crafter friendly. Add a more interesting crafting system where I can design (within a certain scope) weapons and armor and a mini-game to make it and then you've got me. Especially if we are talking about crafting real epic items.
There should be the slaying of a dragon in order to get the scales to make a great shield or set of armor. The conqering of a demon for his talons to forge a great spear. If anything, crafters should be bargaining with adventurers to procure these items for them.
I once had a neverwinter nights character generator. Part of it was the ability to pick weapons and change various parts (or armor) and color various parts. I would fool around with it for hours. Now THAT's crafting. It's creative. Crafting, real crafting is about creativity and artistry along with actual craftsmanship. I've yet to see anything close in these games.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
To be honest, I only read the first page and skimmed the second. I don't really have the time to read the full set of posts that have been made.
In my time as playing MMOs, I have found several reasons that I tend to solo.
Some games, it's just faster to solo and use the game as a chat mechanism, this is especially the case in the low levels when grouping/partying may not be common. I know in Final Fantasy XI, I always level from 1-10 on my own since very few people actually party during that time and the XP share wouldn't be worth while during those levels.
In World of Warcraft, I solo not because I wanted to, but because I had to. What I saw was that people solo everywhere. I'd go looking for instance parties and no one would do them except for the first one in Westfall. As the game grew older, fewer people played level 1-60 because everyone had level 70 (now working on level 80) characters. Because of this groups were a rare commodity from level 20-50ish, which is what really turned me away from the game.
LOTRO I soloed in just because there really wasn't a reason to party except when doing the storyline quests. Although I consider myself a casual player, I don't like spending most of my time soloing.
Those are really the only reasons that I ever played solo, though sometimes the reasons were carried over to other MMOs.
Let it be known that I hate WoW with a passion and will defend almost any MMORPG against it.
Current: FFXI (PC/360)
Want: FFXIV, Stargate Worlds, Star Trek Online
Past: AC, AoC, AO, Atlantica Online, CoH/V, DAoC, Dungeon Runners, D&DO, EVE, Everquest I+II, FlyFF, GW (all), Lineage 2, LOTRO, Mabinogi, Maplestory, PSO (DC/Xbox/PC), PSU (PC/360), PlanetSide, RO, Shadowbane, SWG (Pre-NGE), SotNW, TR, UO, Warhammer Online, WoW, WWIIO
you pretty much answered the question yourself.
i'm paying the same amount as anyone else to play a GAME and enjoy that GAME.
i'm not paying this monthly sub to be forced to play with basement dwellers, children, morons, drama queens, or any of the others that i've been forced to speak with and hang out with (on voice) for endless hours... in order to get the 'good stuff'.
i play as many, or more, hours than many raiders and such; why should i be forced to endlessly repeat the same boring content 50 times with people i honestly can't stand, in order to get the good stuff?
before some "genius" makes a comment about my going play single player games; please, point me to single player games that have the content and updates that eve online and city of heroes have.
if you can't point out single player games of those genre with the content, variety, and updates available in those two games; then your "play a single player game" retort is both moronic and idiotic.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?