The figures of $8 million for EQ and $80 million to get WoW out the door are well known. But what is the figure of the costs for AoC and Warhammer? With consoles dominating the gaming market more and more everyday the PC is being regulated to the mmorpg market and games that dont fit the console format. A lot of people point out that one of the reasons of WoW's success is that it runs well on old PC's. Lets say 3 year old PC's. And since (most) people who own a pc also run windows/browser/email etc a 3 year old PC will run Windows XP and internet applications quite well there isnt much need to upgrade [b]just for gaming[b].Now of course lots of hardcore gamers will upgrade to the latest video card/CPU with 4GB+ of RAM. But more and more this group of people are becoming a niche market. 10 years ago upgrading your PC just didn't mean better gaming, it meant drastically better windows performance. But to spend thousands of $$ for faster gaming and your email to open in 2 seconds instead of 4 is a big ask. Now everyone keeps (mainly WoW haters) asking for the "next generation mmorpg" it would be logical that the next gen mmorpg requires the next gen of hardware to run it. And with ever the increasing production costs of developing an mmorpg, how can a more expensive next gen mmorpg - that requires next gen hardware to run - ever be successful? From what I can gather from the mmorpg scene, people and developers want to make a "next gen mmorpg" that has develop costs equal or less to WoW's, to have have hardware requirement equal or less to WoW's but yet be "next gen" and have tons of new features and options that WoW doesnt have. Somehow that doesnt add up for me. How can mmorpg's develop on a dying platform(PC)? Will mmropg's have to move to the next generation of consoles after the PS3 and XBOX 360?
Well, first of all hardware all already next generation and past that. Wow came ot in 2004, that was before multi core processors and on the GFX cards we seen 3 generation come since then.
The computers are ready for a next generation game, they have changed more now than they did in the 5 years between Wow and EQ.
If you only count graphics then there are already several games like LOTRO and AoC out there but just graphics isn't enough for a generation change.
It doesn't matter if the next gen will be a themepark or sandbox either. What matters is that the nextgen will have to be very different from what is out now and change the whole genre, like half life did for the FPS games.
Personally I think that the devs need to go back to the beginning, pen and paper RPGs and figure out what make them so fun, and then try to implement as much as possible of that into the MMO games. Too long have the development been just about combat, there are many other aspects of RPGs that MMOs either don't have at all.
Itt is true that MMO will come out to consoles too but it isn't a new things that the PC isn't the main thing for games. When I was a kid every gamer had a C-64, people playing on a PC were kinda wierd.
Then came the Amiga. After that we had the Playstation...
PC gaming have always been there but it costs money to have a good PC, PC gamings big years was from the mid 90s to now, that is relativly few years and consoles have always been fighting for the same thing. Who knows what the future will give us? Heck, Mac might come as the big gaming computer, nobody knows.
What we do know is that PC games will still be around, I have always prefered a real computer before a console since I do everything on it from watching TV, write stuff to game. A console is cheaper but even if Sony and Microsoft tried to make their consoles like a PC they failed that.
But it is likely that many of the future MMOs will come out both on PC and consoles, this will affect the games, but if it is for the better or worse, who can tell? I actually think there are things 'MMOs can learn from console games, one way or another they will need to change or the genre will very sloly die out like the platform games have. While there still are a few left there was a time when most games was for platforms.
Anyways the future will be intresting, I wouldn't mind working on a next gen MMO myself
As long pc are made as they should be no dumb down controls and gameworld then i dont mind if a console game ported to pc but thats not what happens in almost all cases all console games ported to pc are awekward controlls and dumb down overall, and i refuse playing damn console ports becouse of that.
I will never play a game with gamepad on my pc:P
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Sure, you [i]can[/i] make a game look better on PC than on a console. So what, then nobody can play it and you end up with a failute like Crysis (what, 60K copies?).
The disadvantage of the PC is that nobody has the latest and greatest rig. [b]The advantage is that everyone has *A* PC[/b] no matter how slow it is.
This is why WoW, Counterstrike and Diablo 2 are so successful and why Blizzard's next titles will be equally successful again. My PC dates from early '07 and system reqs are catching up to it. GTA4 looks dubious because it recommends a quad core (!) so I probably won't buy it. Minus one sale.
Instead of 'the next gen' game, we need a game with next gen content and last gen graphics so people can play it on their notebooks over wifi or on their 4 year old word processors. Then you really appeal to the tens of millions of PC owners out there - much more than the number of console owners.
My main complaint with PC gaming are the people that pirate games while it may be a small % of players that do this its left an impression on companies like EA (madden didnt come to pc because of those thieves)
Im glad it actually takes some effort to priate games and most people would rather just buy the game then do all the crap needed to play a buggy virus filled knock off version of a good game.
Originally posted by BrotherLaz This is why WoW, Counterstrike and Diablo 2 are so successful and why Blizzard's next titles will be equally successful again. My PC dates from early '07 and system reqs are catching up to it. GTA4 looks dubious because it recommends a quad core (!) so I probably won't buy it. Minus one sale. Instead of 'the next gen' game, we need a game with next gen content and last gen graphics so people can play it on their notebooks over wifi or on their 4 year old word processors. Then you really appeal to the tens of millions of PC owners out there - much more than the number of console owners.
This is what I mean when I say that Blizzard understands the market better than anyone else.
PCs are at least as commonplace in households as consoles are, probably even moreso. Blizzard views that as an advantage, and produces games that are designed to run on the computers that are in people's households, by and large, rather than the much smaller % of "gaming computers". And that's why they dominate the marketplace.
The problem, as all problems do, comes down to the fact that too many people are goddamn stupid.
Today's AAA games are pretty much movies combined with button mashing. That works MUCH better on Consoles than PCs due to larger TV screens and cheaper systems, so why even try making one for a PC? Yet most PC developers only see numbers and throw out similar games to consoles. Better yet are those who make a game for both consoles and PC, of course the PC is going to lose. Who wants to spend $50 for a shitty port for a shitty game?
Stardock, Valve, and Blizzard are all successful PC developers for one reason and one reason alone. They're not the idiotic game developers that plague the market. They design to the strengths of the system and focus on interesting gameplay instead of Movies + Buttons*.
* That's why consoles don't have keyboards. You only need four buttons or so to proceed through the movie and proceed to spend $60 for your next movie-game. As for strategies, why? You can make much more money throwing out a basic FPS with a hide-behind-cover button. Yes, I'm an asshole, sorry. My point is, modern games simply don't have the complexity to warrant the need of a keyboard. That goes for most PC games too. I can see the want for a console mouse more as a mouse is definitely more precise, but unless you're into the very high levels of micro as seen in pro Starcraft games, or you need the accuracy of an expert Quake player, a console controler works good enough.
How can mmorpg's develop on a dying platform(PC)? Will mmropg's have to move to the next generation of consoles after the PS3 and XBOX 360?
PC isn't dying, the consoles are becoming PC's. Add a mouse and keyboard to the next gen console, and it's a PC.
Everyone needs a pc to do email, pay bills, shop on ebay, google for info, mapquest for directions, watch youtube videos, watch TV on HULU TV, etc. AND you can play games as well.
And if you say, well I can do all that on my console, then it's a PC, isn't it?
Who needs a console? Add console controllers to a PC, which you can already do, and what's the point in getting a console anymore?
Future of pc gaming seems very bleak, its indeed dying but its fault of pc owners themselfs well many anyway not all. Again and again i see people even on offcial forums saying in not so many words dl game free, even friend s of mine there the evil force that eventually force gamemakers to develop only for consoles and give pc cheap port's that suck. MMO'S will eventually all move to consoles, pc is dying platform im affraid:(
There are a remarkable number of similarities between the current crop of consoles and PCs. The new generation of consoles all have built-in memory or HDD options, something that was almost non-existent in the gaming industry a few years ago but has been commonplace in the computer market for decades. They also are no longer simple game-playing machines. You can download and watch movies on the PS3 and 360 just as if you were on a PC or Mac, or communicate across the world with other users and friends using various messaging services. Not surprisingly, each console also has a main menu screen from which all of these various services can be accessed, not unlike a PC desktop and/or start menu. And like PCs, consoles now require regular firmware updates to patch holes or add necessary features to the system. None of this is some stupid coincidence, not by a long shot."
as soon as they bring out a good console that has full internet browser. i'm never using my pc again. windows is fail, i get issues with it every day. and i'm not even on vista. I get tired of all the hassle and costs of pc gaming. my new super PC has broken a few times in just one year, having to replace parts.
so as soon as I can go on youtube on my xbox 720 or ps4, process simple text documents and play mmos on it. pc's will be obselete, only useful for programming, CAD etc. plug it in, play it. no more hassle.
If a dev team puts enough effort into making an efficient engine/emulator and coding, a game can look good and run smooth. I got to play Aion beta on my POS comp, and aside from capitol cities, it ran just as fast as WoW on 3/4 settings, and looked about 10 000 times better...I was really suprised, theres hardly any black screens or long loads when you log in, teleport, alt tab, etc...I didn't even want to play it til I got a new comp cause I was expecting 10 fps or playing it on the worst settings like I would have to do for AoC/WAR.
Industry insiders all tell me the same thing, consoles are finished. It is the console that costs too much to develop with no guarantee of a return on that investment. XBOX360 a large success still lost money on the box development. PS3 lost gobs of money and will never get it back.
The future isnt some box in your living room. It will be a wireless receiver that connects you to a wide range of entertainment options. cable television, mmorpgs, multiplayer action games, phone service, and more
You will access all of these entertainment options through your home PC or a tv with a keyboard like remote. The pc wont be anything like it is now either. The days of having a physical hard drive are over. Your music, files, etc will be stored on some server in a place you'll never see.
It comes down to two main reasons...piracy and cost/purchase of the box. If people dont buy that box, they cant access Halo 9. If people dont have the right box, they cant buy Gears of War 34. And if they can buy the game, there is a chance none of their friends will have to buy it (piracy)
In short, a wireless system allows for maximum sales for the industry with practically zero chance for piracy. And when the industry upgrades to a new more powerful system, it doesnt have to wait for 100 million people to buy the box before it can start making a profit on games.
there wont be an xbos720 or a ps4. consoles days are done
>sure if people could "pirate" subscription based mmorpg's they would do so.
You should think that would be impossible physically, but... there are nerds out there succeeding in creating alternative platforms for MMO's like UO, WoW, Anarchy Online and lately I saw a new SWG being made. Illegal yes, but it does happen. Also this site does not like the mention of such, but then denying the reality never benefitted anyone.
The question is more why, why are these amateur serverside versions made?
The cost for the hardcore is going up and the casuals is going down. When they all switch over to the no subscription Micro Transaction business model obviously the hardcore will want everything and they'll be putting out lots of money where as the casual wont care and get to play for free.
Actually Im not sure on this one.....The casual are often the ones buying the stuff because they dont have the tiem the hardcores do to get their own stuff.......It seems that most often the ones I read that are buying gold/powerleveling services are the people who have alot of money in RL and little time......They are the ones trying to keep up with the hardcores......Most of the hardcores I know get their own stuff and know where to go and whom to kill to get it.
>sure if people could "pirate" subscription based mmorpg's they would do so. You should think that would be impossible physically, but... there are nerds out there succeeding in creating alternative platforms for MMO's like UO, WoW, Anarchy Online and lately I saw a new SWG being made. Illegal yes, but it does happen. Also this site does not like the mention of such, but then denying the reality never benefitted anyone. The question is more why, why are these amateur serverside versions made?
People make them for a few reasons. One is to avoid rulesets they don't like: so you can have the MMO without the grind, give everyone max level characters and gear and just fight, or give people a faster grind and easier gold, etc. In the case of SWG, the idea is to rollback the CU/NGE changes through a private server.
Gameplay is the key to any game. How else can you explain the success of games such as Counter-Strike, Quake III, and Diablo II for such an extended period. Graphics are an overhyped accessory to gameplay. The majority of PC gamers do not own a $3,000 rig and constantly update it. Any smart developer would realize this and develop games that could run on a wide range of setups. And as far as consoles go, give me a mouse and keyboard and i'll never touch a PC for gaming again.
On the topic of gameplay vs graphics, a nice article I came across recently (don't know when it was actully written) that talks about games that were released in 1998:
I still go back and play those, especially Baldur's Gate, Fallout 2, and Starcraft. And that's just 1998! I still play the aforementioned Quake III, and Diablo II. Even at their time none of those games were amazing graphically yet I'm sure they'll last longer than any game coming out recently / in the near future. But I know game developers nowadays are more for dumbing down the game to sell to the masses to make the money. I completely understand it from a business perspective, but it's still sad from a gamer perspective.
That said, Indie games are definitely starting to look better. Mount & Blade has awesome Real Time combat and is thankfully modable to add in all the other missing elements of gameplay. Age of Decadence is looking amazing. Avernum / Geneforge are nice. Dwarf Fortress has amazing gameplay. Hell, I've found reading how some people managed to get their fortress destroyed more fun than alot of games lately. Where else do you get see something like, "Lorbam Wailwind cancels Sparring in Barracks: Too Insane".
actually you have it backwards. Industry insiders all tell me the same thing, consoles are finished. It is the console that costs too much to develop with no guarantee of a return on that investment. XBOX360 a large success still lost money on the box development. PS3 lost gobs of money and will never get it back. The future isnt some box in your living room. It will be a wireless receiver that connects you to a wide range of entertainment options. cable television, mmorpgs, multiplayer action games, phone service, and more You will access all of these entertainment options through your home PC or a tv with a keyboard like remote. The pc wont be anything like it is now either. The days of having a physical hard drive are over. Your music, files, etc will be stored on some server in a place you'll never see. It comes down to two main reasons...piracy and cost/purchase of the box. If people dont buy that box, they cant access Halo 9. If people dont have the right box, they cant buy Gears of War 34. And if they can buy the game, there is a chance none of their friends will have to buy it (piracy) In short, a wireless system allows for maximum sales for the industry with practically zero chance for piracy. And when the industry upgrades to a new more powerful system, it doesnt have to wait for 100 million people to buy the box before it can start making a profit on games. there wont be an xbos720 or a ps4. consoles days are done
I think this is correct. In the near future, all you will need is a machine that hooks up to the internet, and all the gaming will be done virtually. You won't need to upgrade your graphics card, add more ram, etc. That will all be taken care of on the server side. You'll just hook up to the internet, and play whatever game you want to.
There won't be platforms, like PC, Xbox, PS3, etc. There will just be games, and you can play them as long as you can access the internet.
We already see a crude version of this now. I have Direct TV and it has a game channel. You play the games on the TV with the satellite connection. Obviously hte TV has no computing power at all, adn everything is done server side. The monitor is just a display system.
This technology will continue to mature, until it's applicable to current AAA games.
I'm a hardware geek, but even I had to put a stop in upgrading every 2 years. When game devs and Microsoft; Nvidia; Creative and Intel started bank rolling games, it got crazy with the system requirements -- games like F.E.A.R. and BF2142 at the time of their release demanded more than a better proc and GPU and EAX enabled soundcards, they needed more memory; larger pagefiles and even better I/O to perform without stuttering. One thing is for sure, if the economy isn't better in a year, devs don't have to worry about gamers upgrading their rigs -- there won't be enough money to even buy their games!
I see the video game industry the same as I view the beer industry. Good or bad times it will do well. People drink when they are happy and when they are sad. Some of the sadder moments in my life Ive been able to escape to games. So I don't think that will be a problem for them.
I believe WAR was close to WoW. Wasn't 100mil but it was up there. I think AAA mmos will continue to be around that cost and maybe more if they are more ambitious.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
actually you have it backwards. Industry insiders all tell me the same thing, consoles are finished. It is the console that costs too much to develop with no guarantee of a return on that investment. XBOX360 a large success still lost money on the box development. PS3 lost gobs of money and will never get it back. The future isnt some box in your living room. It will be a wireless receiver that connects you to a wide range of entertainment options. cable television, mmorpgs, multiplayer action games, phone service, and more You will access all of these entertainment options through your home PC or a tv with a keyboard like remote. The pc wont be anything like it is now either. The days of having a physical hard drive are over. Your music, files, etc will be stored on some server in a place you'll never see. It comes down to two main reasons...piracy and cost/purchase of the box. If people dont buy that box, they cant access Halo 9. If people dont have the right box, they cant buy Gears of War 34. And if they can buy the game, there is a chance none of their friends will have to buy it (piracy) In short, a wireless system allows for maximum sales for the industry with practically zero chance for piracy. And when the industry upgrades to a new more powerful system, it doesnt have to wait for 100 million people to buy the box before it can start making a profit on games. there wont be an xbos720 or a ps4. consoles days are done
I think this is correct. In the near future, all you will need is a machine that hooks up to the internet, and all the gaming will be done virtually. You won't need to upgrade your graphics card, add more ram, etc. That will all be taken care of on the server side. You'll just hook up to the internet, and play whatever game you want to.
There won't be platforms, like PC, Xbox, PS3, etc. There will just be games, and you can play them as long as you can access the internet.
We already see a crude version of this now. I have Direct TV and it has a game channel. You play the games on the TV with the satellite connection. Obviously hte TV has no computing power at all, adn everything is done server side. The monitor is just a display system.
This technology will continue to mature, until it's applicable to current AAA games.
But wait. Why would sony or nintendo let this happen? MS could do it becuase well they have the PC market but nintendo and sony don't. Also would devolpers have to pay royaties to the companies that host these so people can play their games? Would they be filled with so many ADs that there is no immerison? I think consoles and PCs as we know them will be around for a long time.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
That said, there are some trends people need to be aware of. You can get a VERY good gaming PC for about $600 (see www.Tomshardware.com for low cost gaming rig specs). You can get respectable gaming laptops (laptops are beating desktops in sales) for $1350 from expensive stores like Best Buy, even cheaper if you shop around. And the prices are falling fast.
Yes, but the average person doesn't want to buy a PC from someplace special, shop around, compare specs, custom build and the like. The average person buys an off the shelf PC at Best Buy that he can use for email and pictures and MP3s. He isn't a computerphile. Consoles make it easy on the consumer -- one thing, buy the box, that's it. It appeals to people who play games but are not tech geeks.
Building computers today grandma can do it. It wasn't like in the day of my first computer -- that it had to be literally soldered together to work.
Now, the hardest thing to do is to install all of the software, as plug n play has automated much of tweaking even needed to build a computer. What used to take hours of time even from a networking engineer (like solving IRC conflicts; setting up a network by hand), now mom can do with an installation disk and a v-e-r-y easy to read brochure, that has like at most 10 steps to complete.
Takes me no more than an hour to build a brand new system (a couple more hours to make a extreme OCing rig with polishing the proc and heatsink, and installing aftermarket coolers for air cooled rigs; and the same for watercoolers -- Peltiers take longer, as there's a lot of sealing to do and for it to cure, let alone figuring the best way to eliminate the heat it can generate as a byproduct).
But for the average gamer, takes nothing more than knowing your needs and going to sites like Newegg and buying the pieces and putting them together. Everything now just snaps into place -- it's a tech job, not a mechanic one.
You exxagarate the ease of the process. 1/2 of the time one of the parts you buy is defective, and its a real challenge to figure out which one it is. Then there's always issue with getting them set up properly, and more than one occasion I've had to help a corpmate with troubleshooting why their homemade system isn't working properly.
Finally, no warranties available outside of what the components provide, no technical support, and in the end, you can't build a decent gaming laptop yourself..... the final deciding factor in my case.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
actually you have it backwards. Industry insiders all tell me the same thing, consoles are finished. It is the console that costs too much to develop with no guarantee of a return on that investment. XBOX360 a large success still lost money on the box development. PS3 lost gobs of money and will never get it back. The future isnt some box in your living room. It will be a wireless receiver that connects you to a wide range of entertainment options. cable television, mmorpgs, multiplayer action games, phone service, and more You will access all of these entertainment options through your home PC or a tv with a keyboard like remote. The pc wont be anything like it is now either. The days of having a physical hard drive are over. Your music, files, etc will be stored on some server in a place you'll never see. It comes down to two main reasons...piracy and cost/purchase of the box. If people dont buy that box, they cant access Halo 9. If people dont have the right box, they cant buy Gears of War 34. And if they can buy the game, there is a chance none of their friends will have to buy it (piracy) In short, a wireless system allows for maximum sales for the industry with practically zero chance for piracy. And when the industry upgrades to a new more powerful system, it doesnt have to wait for 100 million people to buy the box before it can start making a profit on games. there wont be an xbos720 or a ps4. consoles days are done
I think this is correct. In the near future, all you will need is a machine that hooks up to the internet, and all the gaming will be done virtually. You won't need to upgrade your graphics card, add more ram, etc. That will all be taken care of on the server side. You'll just hook up to the internet, and play whatever game you want to.
There won't be platforms, like PC, Xbox, PS3, etc. There will just be games, and you can play them as long as you can access the internet.
We already see a crude version of this now. I have Direct TV and it has a game channel. You play the games on the TV with the satellite connection. Obviously hte TV has no computing power at all, adn everything is done server side. The monitor is just a display system.
This technology will continue to mature, until it's applicable to current AAA games.
But wait. Why would sony or nintendo let this happen? MS could do it becuase well they have the PC market but nintendo and sony don't. Also would devolpers have to pay royaties to the companies that host these so people can play their games? Would they be filled with so many ADs that there is no immerison? I think consoles and PCs as we know them will be around for a long time.
How would they stop it from happening?
Log on to gamesitex.com and you can play Sonic 108, Battlefield 2199, Farcry 5, World of Starcraft, Mortal Online, etc. Just pay the fee to play the game, and have a good internet connection, that's it. No major hardware needed, other than a system that let's you browse the internet.
What are sony and nintendo going to do, come to your house and cut your internet connection so you can't play?
Developers would be quite happy with this model, even if they have to pay fees to host the games. There is almost ZERO piracy. You don't download the game at all, so you can't transfer it to anyone. You just log on and play. No DRM needed, no CD key to crack, nothing.
I don’t care how you label your MMO, “next gen” to me means the feature set is superior, not the graphics. I want substance, and hardware requirements are an entirely separate matter.
It’s up to the developer to decide how many players they want, higher the requirement, the fewer that will play. It’s their choice and their failure if they decide to alienate the player base.
I made the decision over 10 years ago that if I was going to be spending money on video games, it would have to be either consoles or PC... not both. Despite the higher cost at the time, I chose PC and I couldn't be more confident that I made the right decision. As hard as they try, consoles never have, and never will take the upper hand for graphics and functionality. Consoles were practical back when they were in the $200 range and PC's were in the $2000-$3000 range but that's just not the case any more. Anyone buying a $3000+ rig these days from alienware or projectwarmachine is just a sucker and has no concept of cost/benefit analysis. For the price of one of those fancy top-of-the-line xbox 360's, (roughly $500) you can build a gaming computer with better graphics, interface, functions, speed, and upgradability than a console. You can even HDMI output to your favorite HD tv if you'd like. And... how many console components are user servicable? I don't know who could possibly be whining about the cost of maintaining a PC... well, except for someone with a McJob earning a McWage at the McPoverty level.
They're trying to add internet connectivity and multimedia capabilities to consoles, but really... plug in a keyboard and all you've got is a handicapped PC.
As for the cost of MMOs, cross platform games aren't that far off and they'll reach the broadest market possible. They'll have high end graphics for the PC crowd, and dumbed down graphics for the consoles, and they'll communicate with eachother. All entertainment electronics are merging together.... video, music, internet, tv, radio, communications, and yes, gaming.
I spent 700 dollars on my Dell computer that came with a one year warranty with the option to extend it. I can run any game. You don' have to spend thousands of dollars just to run AoC or Crysis.
IMO, PC gaming is closing to an end. It may take another decade or two but its on its way. Its very rare nowadays to see a PC only title. Once consoles get an OS that allows email and internet browsers PCs will be in deep trouble.
Comments
Well, first of all hardware all already next generation and past that. Wow came ot in 2004, that was before multi core processors and on the GFX cards we seen 3 generation come since then.
The computers are ready for a next generation game, they have changed more now than they did in the 5 years between Wow and EQ.
If you only count graphics then there are already several games like LOTRO and AoC out there but just graphics isn't enough for a generation change.
It doesn't matter if the next gen will be a themepark or sandbox either. What matters is that the nextgen will have to be very different from what is out now and change the whole genre, like half life did for the FPS games.
Personally I think that the devs need to go back to the beginning, pen and paper RPGs and figure out what make them so fun, and then try to implement as much as possible of that into the MMO games. Too long have the development been just about combat, there are many other aspects of RPGs that MMOs either don't have at all.
Itt is true that MMO will come out to consoles too but it isn't a new things that the PC isn't the main thing for games. When I was a kid every gamer had a C-64, people playing on a PC were kinda wierd.
Then came the Amiga. After that we had the Playstation...
PC gaming have always been there but it costs money to have a good PC, PC gamings big years was from the mid 90s to now, that is relativly few years and consoles have always been fighting for the same thing. Who knows what the future will give us? Heck, Mac might come as the big gaming computer, nobody knows.
What we do know is that PC games will still be around, I have always prefered a real computer before a console since I do everything on it from watching TV, write stuff to game. A console is cheaper but even if Sony and Microsoft tried to make their consoles like a PC they failed that.
But it is likely that many of the future MMOs will come out both on PC and consoles, this will affect the games, but if it is for the better or worse, who can tell? I actually think there are things 'MMOs can learn from console games, one way or another they will need to change or the genre will very sloly die out like the platform games have. While there still are a few left there was a time when most games was for platforms.
Anyways the future will be intresting, I wouldn't mind working on a next gen MMO myself
As long pc are made as they should be no dumb down controls and gameworld then i dont mind if a console game ported to pc but thats not what happens in almost all cases all console games ported to pc are awekward controlls and dumb down overall, and i refuse playing damn console ports becouse of that.
I will never play a game with gamepad on my pc:P
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
PC devs have the wrong priorities.
Sure, you [i]can[/i] make a game look better on PC than on a console. So what, then nobody can play it and you end up with a failute like Crysis (what, 60K copies?).
The disadvantage of the PC is that nobody has the latest and greatest rig. [b]The advantage is that everyone has *A* PC[/b] no matter how slow it is.
This is why WoW, Counterstrike and Diablo 2 are so successful and why Blizzard's next titles will be equally successful again. My PC dates from early '07 and system reqs are catching up to it. GTA4 looks dubious because it recommends a quad core (!) so I probably won't buy it. Minus one sale.
Instead of 'the next gen' game, we need a game with next gen content and last gen graphics so people can play it on their notebooks over wifi or on their 4 year old word processors. Then you really appeal to the tens of millions of PC owners out there - much more than the number of console owners.
Mods by Laz | Diablo II | Median 2008 | Median XL
My main complaint with PC gaming are the people that pirate games while it may be a small % of players that do this its left an impression on companies like EA (madden didnt come to pc because of those thieves)
Im glad it actually takes some effort to priate games and most people would rather just buy the game then do all the crap needed to play a buggy virus filled knock off version of a good game.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
This is what I mean when I say that Blizzard understands the market better than anyone else.
PCs are at least as commonplace in households as consoles are, probably even moreso. Blizzard views that as an advantage, and produces games that are designed to run on the computers that are in people's households, by and large, rather than the much smaller % of "gaming computers". And that's why they dominate the marketplace.
The problem, as all problems do, comes down to the fact that too many people are goddamn stupid.
Today's AAA games are pretty much movies combined with button mashing. That works MUCH better on Consoles than PCs due to larger TV screens and cheaper systems, so why even try making one for a PC? Yet most PC developers only see numbers and throw out similar games to consoles. Better yet are those who make a game for both consoles and PC, of course the PC is going to lose. Who wants to spend $50 for a shitty port for a shitty game?
Stardock, Valve, and Blizzard are all successful PC developers for one reason and one reason alone. They're not the idiotic game developers that plague the market. They design to the strengths of the system and focus on interesting gameplay instead of Movies + Buttons*.
* That's why consoles don't have keyboards. You only need four buttons or so to proceed through the movie and proceed to spend $60 for your next movie-game. As for strategies, why? You can make much more money throwing out a basic FPS with a hide-behind-cover button. Yes, I'm an asshole, sorry. My point is, modern games simply don't have the complexity to warrant the need of a keyboard. That goes for most PC games too. I can see the want for a console mouse more as a mouse is definitely more precise, but unless you're into the very high levels of micro as seen in pro Starcraft games, or you need the accuracy of an expert Quake player, a console controler works good enough.
PC isn't dying, the consoles are becoming PC's. Add a mouse and keyboard to the next gen console, and it's a PC.
Everyone needs a pc to do email, pay bills, shop on ebay, google for info, mapquest for directions, watch youtube videos, watch TV on HULU TV, etc. AND you can play games as well.
And if you say, well I can do all that on my console, then it's a PC, isn't it?
Who needs a console? Add console controllers to a PC, which you can already do, and what's the point in getting a console anymore?
"But that perception couldn't be further from the truth. PC gaming is not dying — it is evolving into something we are much more familiar with. It is not PC gaming that is dying, but the perception of "console gaming" that is biting the bullet. And there's plenty of evidence to back it up.
There are a remarkable number of similarities between the current crop of consoles and PCs. The new generation of consoles all have built-in memory or HDD options, something that was almost non-existent in the gaming industry a few years ago but has been commonplace in the computer market for decades. They also are no longer simple game-playing machines. You can download and watch movies on the PS3 and 360 just as if you were on a PC or Mac, or communicate across the world with other users and friends using various messaging services. Not surprisingly, each console also has a main menu screen from which all of these various services can be accessed, not unlike a PC desktop and/or start menu. And like PCs, consoles now require regular firmware updates to patch holes or add necessary features to the system. None of this is some stupid coincidence, not by a long shot."
as soon as they bring out a good console that has full internet browser. i'm never using my pc again. windows is fail, i get issues with it every day. and i'm not even on vista. I get tired of all the hassle and costs of pc gaming. my new super PC has broken a few times in just one year, having to replace parts.
so as soon as I can go on youtube on my xbox 720 or ps4, process simple text documents and play mmos on it. pc's will be obselete, only useful for programming, CAD etc. plug it in, play it. no more hassle.
My blog:
If a dev team puts enough effort into making an efficient engine/emulator and coding, a game can look good and run smooth. I got to play Aion beta on my POS comp, and aside from capitol cities, it ran just as fast as WoW on 3/4 settings, and looked about 10 000 times better...I was really suprised, theres hardly any black screens or long loads when you log in, teleport, alt tab, etc...I didn't even want to play it til I got a new comp cause I was expecting 10 fps or playing it on the worst settings like I would have to do for AoC/WAR.
actually you have it backwards.
Industry insiders all tell me the same thing, consoles are finished. It is the console that costs too much to develop with no guarantee of a return on that investment. XBOX360 a large success still lost money on the box development. PS3 lost gobs of money and will never get it back.
The future isnt some box in your living room. It will be a wireless receiver that connects you to a wide range of entertainment options. cable television, mmorpgs, multiplayer action games, phone service, and more
You will access all of these entertainment options through your home PC or a tv with a keyboard like remote. The pc wont be anything like it is now either. The days of having a physical hard drive are over. Your music, files, etc will be stored on some server in a place you'll never see.
It comes down to two main reasons...piracy and cost/purchase of the box. If people dont buy that box, they cant access Halo 9. If people dont have the right box, they cant buy Gears of War 34. And if they can buy the game, there is a chance none of their friends will have to buy it (piracy)
In short, a wireless system allows for maximum sales for the industry with practically zero chance for piracy. And when the industry upgrades to a new more powerful system, it doesnt have to wait for 100 million people to buy the box before it can start making a profit on games.
there wont be an xbos720 or a ps4. consoles days are done
>sure if people could "pirate" subscription based mmorpg's they would do so.
You should think that would be impossible physically, but... there are nerds out there succeeding in creating alternative platforms for MMO's like UO, WoW, Anarchy Online and lately I saw a new SWG being made. Illegal yes, but it does happen. Also this site does not like the mention of such, but then denying the reality never benefitted anyone.
The question is more why, why are these amateur serverside versions made?
Am going to laugh my ass off when M$ rolls out a gen wii type console and just cater to the casual kiddies crowds.
Actually Im not sure on this one.....The casual are often the ones buying the stuff because they dont have the tiem the hardcores do to get their own stuff.......It seems that most often the ones I read that are buying gold/powerleveling services are the people who have alot of money in RL and little time......They are the ones trying to keep up with the hardcores......Most of the hardcores I know get their own stuff and know where to go and whom to kill to get it.
People make them for a few reasons. One is to avoid rulesets they don't like: so you can have the MMO without the grind, give everyone max level characters and gear and just fight, or give people a faster grind and easier gold, etc. In the case of SWG, the idea is to rollback the CU/NGE changes through a private server.
This sums it up perfectly for me.
On the topic of gameplay vs graphics, a nice article I came across recently (don't know when it was actully written) that talks about games that were released in 1998:
pc.ign.com/articles/066/066665p1.html
I still go back and play those, especially Baldur's Gate, Fallout 2, and Starcraft. And that's just 1998! I still play the aforementioned Quake III, and Diablo II. Even at their time none of those games were amazing graphically yet I'm sure they'll last longer than any game coming out recently / in the near future. But I know game developers nowadays are more for dumbing down the game to sell to the masses to make the money. I completely understand it from a business perspective, but it's still sad from a gamer perspective.
That said, Indie games are definitely starting to look better. Mount & Blade has awesome Real Time combat and is thankfully modable to add in all the other missing elements of gameplay. Age of Decadence is looking amazing. Avernum / Geneforge are nice. Dwarf Fortress has amazing gameplay. Hell, I've found reading how some people managed to get their fortress destroyed more fun than alot of games lately. Where else do you get see something like, "Lorbam Wailwind cancels Sparring in Barracks: Too Insane".
I think this is correct. In the near future, all you will need is a machine that hooks up to the internet, and all the gaming will be done virtually. You won't need to upgrade your graphics card, add more ram, etc. That will all be taken care of on the server side. You'll just hook up to the internet, and play whatever game you want to.
There won't be platforms, like PC, Xbox, PS3, etc. There will just be games, and you can play them as long as you can access the internet.
We already see a crude version of this now. I have Direct TV and it has a game channel. You play the games on the TV with the satellite connection. Obviously hte TV has no computing power at all, adn everything is done server side. The monitor is just a display system.
This technology will continue to mature, until it's applicable to current AAA games.
I see the video game industry the same as I view the beer industry. Good or bad times it will do well. People drink when they are happy and when they are sad. Some of the sadder moments in my life Ive been able to escape to games. So I don't think that will be a problem for them.
I believe WAR was close to WoW. Wasn't 100mil but it was up there. I think AAA mmos will continue to be around that cost and maybe more if they are more ambitious.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
I think this is correct. In the near future, all you will need is a machine that hooks up to the internet, and all the gaming will be done virtually. You won't need to upgrade your graphics card, add more ram, etc. That will all be taken care of on the server side. You'll just hook up to the internet, and play whatever game you want to.
There won't be platforms, like PC, Xbox, PS3, etc. There will just be games, and you can play them as long as you can access the internet.
We already see a crude version of this now. I have Direct TV and it has a game channel. You play the games on the TV with the satellite connection. Obviously hte TV has no computing power at all, adn everything is done server side. The monitor is just a display system.
This technology will continue to mature, until it's applicable to current AAA games.
But wait. Why would sony or nintendo let this happen? MS could do it becuase well they have the PC market but nintendo and sony don't. Also would devolpers have to pay royaties to the companies that host these so people can play their games? Would they be filled with so many ADs that there is no immerison? I think consoles and PCs as we know them will be around for a long time.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Yes, but the average person doesn't want to buy a PC from someplace special, shop around, compare specs, custom build and the like. The average person buys an off the shelf PC at Best Buy that he can use for email and pictures and MP3s. He isn't a computerphile. Consoles make it easy on the consumer -- one thing, buy the box, that's it. It appeals to people who play games but are not tech geeks.
Building computers today grandma can do it. It wasn't like in the day of my first computer -- that it had to be literally soldered together to work.
Now, the hardest thing to do is to install all of the software, as plug n play has automated much of tweaking even needed to build a computer. What used to take hours of time even from a networking engineer (like solving IRC conflicts; setting up a network by hand), now mom can do with an installation disk and a v-e-r-y easy to read brochure, that has like at most 10 steps to complete.
Takes me no more than an hour to build a brand new system (a couple more hours to make a extreme OCing rig with polishing the proc and heatsink, and installing aftermarket coolers for air cooled rigs; and the same for watercoolers -- Peltiers take longer, as there's a lot of sealing to do and for it to cure, let alone figuring the best way to eliminate the heat it can generate as a byproduct).
But for the average gamer, takes nothing more than knowing your needs and going to sites like Newegg and buying the pieces and putting them together. Everything now just snaps into place -- it's a tech job, not a mechanic one.
You exxagarate the ease of the process. 1/2 of the time one of the parts you buy is defective, and its a real challenge to figure out which one it is. Then there's always issue with getting them set up properly, and more than one occasion I've had to help a corpmate with troubleshooting why their homemade system isn't working properly.
Finally, no warranties available outside of what the components provide, no technical support, and in the end, you can't build a decent gaming laptop yourself..... the final deciding factor in my case.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think this is correct. In the near future, all you will need is a machine that hooks up to the internet, and all the gaming will be done virtually. You won't need to upgrade your graphics card, add more ram, etc. That will all be taken care of on the server side. You'll just hook up to the internet, and play whatever game you want to.
There won't be platforms, like PC, Xbox, PS3, etc. There will just be games, and you can play them as long as you can access the internet.
We already see a crude version of this now. I have Direct TV and it has a game channel. You play the games on the TV with the satellite connection. Obviously hte TV has no computing power at all, adn everything is done server side. The monitor is just a display system.
This technology will continue to mature, until it's applicable to current AAA games.
But wait. Why would sony or nintendo let this happen? MS could do it becuase well they have the PC market but nintendo and sony don't. Also would devolpers have to pay royaties to the companies that host these so people can play their games? Would they be filled with so many ADs that there is no immerison? I think consoles and PCs as we know them will be around for a long time.
How would they stop it from happening?
Log on to gamesitex.com and you can play Sonic 108, Battlefield 2199, Farcry 5, World of Starcraft, Mortal Online, etc. Just pay the fee to play the game, and have a good internet connection, that's it. No major hardware needed, other than a system that let's you browse the internet.
What are sony and nintendo going to do, come to your house and cut your internet connection so you can't play?
Developers would be quite happy with this model, even if they have to pay fees to host the games. There is almost ZERO piracy. You don't download the game at all, so you can't transfer it to anyone. You just log on and play. No DRM needed, no CD key to crack, nothing.
interisting never thought of it that way.
I don’t care how you label your MMO, “next gen” to me means the feature set is superior, not the graphics. I want substance, and hardware requirements are an entirely separate matter.
It’s up to the developer to decide how many players they want, higher the requirement, the fewer that will play. It’s their choice and their failure if they decide to alienate the player base.
I made the decision over 10 years ago that if I was going to be spending money on video games, it would have to be either consoles or PC... not both. Despite the higher cost at the time, I chose PC and I couldn't be more confident that I made the right decision. As hard as they try, consoles never have, and never will take the upper hand for graphics and functionality. Consoles were practical back when they were in the $200 range and PC's were in the $2000-$3000 range but that's just not the case any more. Anyone buying a $3000+ rig these days from alienware or projectwarmachine is just a sucker and has no concept of cost/benefit analysis. For the price of one of those fancy top-of-the-line xbox 360's, (roughly $500) you can build a gaming computer with better graphics, interface, functions, speed, and upgradability than a console. You can even HDMI output to your favorite HD tv if you'd like. And... how many console components are user servicable? I don't know who could possibly be whining about the cost of maintaining a PC... well, except for someone with a McJob earning a McWage at the McPoverty level.
They're trying to add internet connectivity and multimedia capabilities to consoles, but really... plug in a keyboard and all you've got is a handicapped PC.
As for the cost of MMOs, cross platform games aren't that far off and they'll reach the broadest market possible. They'll have high end graphics for the PC crowd, and dumbed down graphics for the consoles, and they'll communicate with eachother. All entertainment electronics are merging together.... video, music, internet, tv, radio, communications, and yes, gaming.
I spent 700 dollars on my Dell computer that came with a one year warranty with the option to extend it. I can run any game. You don' have to spend thousands of dollars just to run AoC or Crysis.
IMO, PC gaming is closing to an end. It may take another decade or two but its on its way. Its very rare nowadays to see a PC only title. Once consoles get an OS that allows email and internet browsers PCs will be in deep trouble.