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Observations regarding recruiting people for SWG.
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"Dead Servers" is a relative statement. When compared to what the servers had pre-NGE/CU all servers could be classified as dead. However...for the NGE period specific there are 3-5 servers that have a much larger population compared to the others which can be classified regardless of era as "Dead".
Do some people like the game? Sure...but the game is only marketed to former players where by far the majority has made up its mind not to return via paying.
Again if the game was good then much more people would be playing it and there wouldn't be a need for server merges/free CTS.
Many people say "What do you expect from a 5 year old title"...WoW is not far behind SWG in age and is certainly going strong. That is a huge indictment of SOE management considering the IP in question.
While dead servers can be used as relative, as almost anything can be construed as relative, I would propose to use it simply in terms of whether there is considerable life/activity about on the server in various places, things going on etc, and if we take this definition quite a few servers are far from dead.
The game is also marketed to brand new players, many of whom ive seen join and stick with the game, though not all of them do. It is fair to say that if the game wa good more people would be playing it, but i dont believe its that simple - while it is true to an extent, people can be put off playing it even if they may like it because of the fact they hate SOE, or because their friends have hang ups about SOE etc etc and that hasnt helped the game.
About Free CTS, as many have stated, this has been called for and needed since the beggining of the NGE, so no change here, it doesnt really mean anything other than that they should have done it a while ago. And WoW - WoW is an example of a sad fact about the world...most people are stupid. Its the reason why good hardcore games like Darkfall etc will never have as large populations, it doesnt mean they are not better. Plus WoW can pretty much be played on any thing that can be dubbed a computer, due to its graphics, which is clever il admit, but not something I would want have to put up with.
The ONLY marketing SOE does in regards to new players with the SWG is via their website...nothing else. All other marketing is done via former players. I would submit that more marketing is done here with the vets recommending that new players utilize the trial than what SOE does at all.
The bottom line compared to what the servers were before the NGE/CU the servers are dead. That is a fact. It is interesting that you admit that CTS/server merges havee been needed since the NGE.
As for WoW...like it or not...their product sells and sells well. Pre-CU had between 200-300k subs. Of course WoW blew that away but it is the exception in the industry which has been proven. I 'm sure SOE wishes they had that 200-300k back now.
I more or less agree with your first paragraph to be honest, although word of mouth and general knowledge does alot more for marketing than MMORPG.com forums do.
The servers now are not dead, thats the bottom line, at least certainly not the big 5-7.
Well as you can tell, i dont like WoW hehe, but as i said, its an unfortunate truth of the world that the majority are stupid, thus many games that may be considered extremely good by a few will still have much lower populations - it doesnt make them worse than the one played by millions.
In the NGE era you are correct those 5-7 servers are not dead...pre-CU they would be considered as dead.
I don't advocate the removal of the NGE. I would hate for the current players that like it to have to experience what many of us had to endure at SOE's hands. I do believe in karma though and SOE will eventually reap what they sow. It has already started in regards to their reputation in the industry.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
I read your post and I got the basics of your theory, no need for insults, because to be honest it was a ridiculous theory in the first place. Blaming angry vets for trying to market SWG (amongst the other titles) as if it is their fault. Most people don't even catch on that it follows a basic format or suspect it is viral marketing in the first place.
This kind of viral marketing is present in lots of SOE games on lots of forums. It usually happens in around the same time as some marketing push or event. It isn't something limited to SWG.
This is not some disorganized agena of angry vets.
Of course it is. When you look at posts by people like John.Galt, it is so blatantly obvious that he's a vet posing as a "fanboi," because very, very few current players actually feel that way (and "jedee"? Come on). However, a great many of the so-called "vets" are absolutely convinced that ALL the current players feel that way. Hence, some so-called "vet" is trying to make the current players look stupid by posting nonsense, and you guys are biting hook, line and sinker.
I have to agree. Some of these posts are most likely from some "disgruntled vet". Its pretty obvious to me. Whats funny, though, is that someone unfamiliar with swg probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You have people like Obriak and (more specifically) Badgersmacker spreading misinformation and telling outright lies about the state of swg. Whether its fun or not or if its significantly better than when the nge first came out is debatable. However, theres no way in hell theres more people playing now than when the nge first launched. Badgersmacker has claimed on several occasions that theres more people playing today and Obriak uses the population of his server to "prove" swg has lots of people still playing. Theres way too much evidence to the contrary, like every server but 4 or 5 being light or very light and the upcoming free server transfers.
But yeah, if anyone is misrepresenting themselves while posting here it only serves to make them look bad.
Hmm, how does the fact that 4 or 5 servers are heavy now, disprove that there were less people when the NGE launched, for you have not statistics/server loads to offer on that period. The only "evidence" involved in any of this post is the fact that two people who play the game, and are generally honest and helpful people if you look at their post history on various forums, have put their word against yours, and since they have produced more evidence than you, as they play the game, (and you have motive to not be telling the truth since you like to bash the game, and they are clearly not trying to recruit as they'd much rather you didnt resub) then surely they are right, considering this situation.
While I don't like swg or what happened, I wouldn't consider myself an "angry vet". I've actually moved on to a game that I really like and only like to make the occasional comment on swg. Its not like I've devoted my life to the extinction of swg by writing letters, proposing boycotts or making my own anti-soe/swg website.
Please show a screen shot of those 4 or 5 servers on heavy, because EVERY screen shot I've seen, from the "vets" and "fanbois", shows about 20 servers at light or very light, 3 or 4 at med. and 1 or 2 at heavy. Obriak himself said just a few months ago that theres only 4 or 5 servers that even hit medium. Before the nge, almost every server was either at med. or heavy, with 4 or 5 at light or very light. Players have been crying for years now about dead servers and now theres going to be free server transfers, which is never a good sign for a games population. Also, those 2 aren't always honest about the state of the game and summarily dismiss whats been done to the game in the past as no big deal. I doubt the population is anywhere near what the "angry vets" claim (anywhere from 2-10k) but there certainly isn't over 100k, which Badgersmacker claims is very much possible.
If people enjoy the game as it is, then thats fine. People have different tastes and I'd never tell anyone what they can and can't have fun with. All I ask is people be honest.
Edit: Sorry Saay. I edited out something here. I got you confused with someone else. My apologies.
You are still completely ignoring the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever that more people played at the beginning of the NGE - I know very well populations aren't ant any of the Pre-NGE levels, i played before NGE as well and I'm not naive. I just don't understand how you can ask people to be honest when many of you here are simply making unfounded claims, and the most proof some of you guys have is logging onto a dead server and going to MO at 3am and claiming the game is dead. (im talking generally, no personal attack on you)
Daffid: If SOE are regularly viral marketing in such a way, firstly, wheres the evidence? and secondly if they no people can just do the SWG trial, why would they need to do such marketting? anyone who has a mind of their own, will want to try the game for themselves (providing not too much of the false claims from these forums have affected them), and anybody who doesnt like it will not continue to play it - thus viral marketting would be pointless, especially on these forums.
Finally, i cant talk for BadgerSmaker, but Obraik, whom i happen to know quite well, is as honest as it gets; show me one instance where he has lied.
While no one has any diect evidence that SOE is using paid viral marketers to plague these boards, SONY has been caught doing similar things in the past:
www.itwire.com/content/view/8138/53/
We know the people we are dealing with are not above using underhanded tactics to market their products, and have created false internet personas to do so.
It is quite likely they would do so here. Looking at the repetitious nature of certain posts around here and the completely tenacious and irrational love these folks seem to have for SOE, it makes sense to assume it is highly likely that these folks, or at least some of them, are SONY created fakes.
Had SONY not been already known for doing these things, I could see being incredulous. In that this is not the case, one has to regard all pro-SONY internet chat as being suspect. That's all SONY's fault. They wrecked their own credibility forever. That's done.
Those most recent and repetitive posts are those of Wildcat, he admitted it essentially. Hypocracy.
So what is hypocritical about doing what SONY has already been caught doing? Of having a little fun with the whole idea? Sounds like satire, not hypocrisy.
What IS suspicious is people getting angry or upset over it, and launching personal attacks and cries of things like hypocrisy. That makes no sense whatsoever. Unless of course you count on SONY for your bread and butter...or you take it personaly when someone mock SONY viral marketers.
Why would someone take such a thing personally?
fishermage.blogspot.com
Because it's making people realize how stupid it is to try and defend SOE. Also, the sheer amount of hate coming from the fanbois over a little forum performance art is certainly telling.
FYI, it looks like my post with the link to where he admitted being the one behind it was deleted. All anyone has to do is go to the website www.mmofringe.com/modules.php and look in the swg forum to see for themselves.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
FYI, it looks like my post with the link to where he admitted being the one behind it was deleted. All anyone has to do is go to the website www.mmofringe.com/modules.php and look in the swg forum to see for themselves.
Good lord, do I have to do everything myself around here? THIS is the link to the thread in question...
I read your post and I got the basics of your theory, no need for insults, because to be honest it was a ridiculous theory in the first place. Blaming angry vets for trying to market SWG (amongst the other titles) as if it is their fault. Most people don't even catch on that it follows a basic format or suspect it is viral marketing in the first place.
This kind of viral marketing is present in lots of SOE games on lots of forums. It usually happens in around the same time as some marketing push or event. It isn't something limited to SWG.
This is not some disorganized agena of angry vets.
Of course it is. When you look at posts by people like John.Galt, it is so blatantly obvious that he's a vet posing as a "fanboi," because very, very few current players actually feel that way (and "jedee"? Come on). However, a great many of the so-called "vets" are absolutely convinced that ALL the current players feel that way. Hence, some so-called "vet" is trying to make the current players look stupid by posting nonsense, and you guys are biting hook, line and sinker.
I have to agree. Some of these posts are most likely from some "disgruntled vet". Its pretty obvious to me. Whats funny, though, is that someone unfamiliar with swg probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You have people like Obriak and (more specifically) Badgersmacker spreading misinformation and telling outright lies about the state of swg. Whether its fun or not or if its significantly better than when the nge first came out is debatable. However, theres no way in hell theres more people playing now than when the nge first launched. Badgersmacker has claimed on several occasions that theres more people playing today and Obriak uses the population of his server to "prove" swg has lots of people still playing. Theres way too much evidence to the contrary, like every server but 4 or 5 being light or very light and the upcoming free server transfers.
But yeah, if anyone is misrepresenting themselves while posting here it only serves to make them look bad.
Hmm, how does the fact that 4 or 5 servers are heavy now, disprove that there were less people when the NGE launched, for you have not statistics/server loads to offer on that period. The only "evidence" involved in any of this post is the fact that two people who play the game, and are generally honest and helpful people if you look at their post history on various forums, have put their word against yours, and since they have produced more evidence than you, as they play the game, (and you have motive to not be telling the truth since you like to bash the game, and they are clearly not trying to recruit as they'd much rather you didnt resub) then surely they are right, considering this situation.
While I don't like swg or what happened, I wouldn't consider myself an "angry vet". I've actually moved on to a game that I really like and only like to make the occasional comment on swg. Its not like I've devoted my life to the extinction of swg by writing letters, proposing boycotts or making my own anti-soe/swg website.
Please show a screen shot of those 4 or 5 servers on heavy, because EVERY screen shot I've seen, from the "vets" and "fanbois", shows about 20 servers at light or very light, 3 or 4 at med. and 1 or 2 at heavy. Obriak himself said just a few months ago that theres only 4 or 5 servers that even hit medium. Before the nge, almost every server was either at med. or heavy, with 4 or 5 at light or very light. Players have been crying for years now about dead servers and now theres going to be free server transfers, which is never a good sign for a games population. Also, those 2 aren't always honest about the state of the game and summarily dismiss whats been done to the game in the past as no big deal. I doubt the population is anywhere near what the "angry vets" claim (anywhere from 2-10k) but there certainly isn't over 100k, which Badgersmacker claims is very much possible.
If people enjoy the game as it is, then thats fine. People have different tastes and I'd never tell anyone what they can and can't have fun with. All I ask is people be honest.
Edit: Sorry Saay. I edited out something here. I got you confused with someone else. My apologies.
You are still completely ignoring the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever that more people played at the beginning of the NGE - I know very well populations aren't ant any of the Pre-NGE levels, i played before NGE as well and I'm not naive. I just don't understand how you can ask people to be honest when many of you here are simply making unfounded claims, and the most proof some of you guys have is logging onto a dead server and going to MO at 3am and claiming the game is dead. (im talking generally, no personal attack on you)
Daffid: If SOE are regularly viral marketing in such a way, firstly, wheres the evidence? and secondly if they no people can just do the SWG trial, why would they need to do such marketting? anyone who has a mind of their own, will want to try the game for themselves (providing not too much of the false claims from these forums have affected them), and anybody who doesnt like it will not continue to play it - thus viral marketting would be pointless, especially on these forums.
Finally, i cant talk for BadgerSmaker, but Obraik, whom i happen to know quite well, is as honest as it gets; show me one instance where he has lied.
While no one has any diect evidence that SOE is using paid viral marketers to plague these boards, SONY has been caught doing similar things in the past:
www.itwire.com/content/view/8138/53/
We know the people we are dealing with are not above using underhanded tactics to market their products, and have created false internet personas to do so.
It is quite likely they would do so here. Looking at the repetitious nature of certain posts around here and the completely tenacious and irrational love these folks seem to have for SOE, it makes sense to assume it is highly likely that these folks, or at least some of them, are SONY created fakes.
Had SONY not been already known for doing these things, I could see being incredulous. In that this is not the case, one has to regard all pro-SONY internet chat as being suspect. That's all SONY's fault. They wrecked their own credibility forever. That's done.
Those most recent and repetitive posts are those of Wildcat, he admitted it essentially. Hypocracy.
So what is hypocritical about doing what SONY has already been caught doing? Of having a little fun with the whole idea? Sounds like satire, not hypocrisy.
What IS suspicious is people getting angry or upset over it, and launching personal attacks and cries of things like hypocrisy. That makes no sense whatsoever. Unless of course you count on SONY for your bread and butter...or you take it personaly when someone mock SONY viral marketers.
Why would someone take such a thing personally?
Its hypocritical as he is the first one to attack SOE on viral marketing, saying the likes of me and others are employed by SOE. Some may see it as satire, but its hardly funny, or infact truthful, since no one has come in here saying anything remotely like he has in his John.Galt posts, infact thats exactly what swg players are NOT like; to me this is hypocracy, nothing else.
The point is, there is no evidence that SOE has undertaken viral marketing, yet there is 100% proof that Wildcat has....
I dont take it too personally, although he has attacked me in the past, I just hate someone bashing SOE on something that they havent neccessarily done, especially when the person does it themselves.....Yes SOE have made huge mistakes, and no, of course they are not an admirable company, but its hardly fair to attack them on something like this in such a way.
John Galt is the target audience of the NGE.
Nothing SOE has done since the NGE has fundamentally changed the NGE. You are STILL being forced to accept the game designed for the target audience and NOT for those who played from launch.
John.Galt is a parody. This has already been established.
And nobody's forced to do anything.
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
I read your post and I got the basics of your theory, no need for insults, because to be honest it was a ridiculous theory in the first place. Blaming angry vets for trying to market SWG (amongst the other titles) as if it is their fault. Most people don't even catch on that it follows a basic format or suspect it is viral marketing in the first place.
This kind of viral marketing is present in lots of SOE games on lots of forums. It usually happens in around the same time as some marketing push or event. It isn't something limited to SWG.
This is not some disorganized agena of angry vets.
Of course it is. When you look at posts by people like John.Galt, it is so blatantly obvious that he's a vet posing as a "fanboi," because very, very few current players actually feel that way (and "jedee"? Come on). However, a great many of the so-called "vets" are absolutely convinced that ALL the current players feel that way. Hence, some so-called "vet" is trying to make the current players look stupid by posting nonsense, and you guys are biting hook, line and sinker.
I have to agree. Some of these posts are most likely from some "disgruntled vet". Its pretty obvious to me. Whats funny, though, is that someone unfamiliar with swg probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You have people like Obriak and (more specifically) Badgersmacker spreading misinformation and telling outright lies about the state of swg. Whether its fun or not or if its significantly better than when the nge first came out is debatable. However, theres no way in hell theres more people playing now than when the nge first launched. Badgersmacker has claimed on several occasions that theres more people playing today and Obriak uses the population of his server to "prove" swg has lots of people still playing. Theres way too much evidence to the contrary, like every server but 4 or 5 being light or very light and the upcoming free server transfers.
But yeah, if anyone is misrepresenting themselves while posting here it only serves to make them look bad.
Hmm, how does the fact that 4 or 5 servers are heavy now, disprove that there were less people when the NGE launched, for you have not statistics/server loads to offer on that period. The only "evidence" involved in any of this post is the fact that two people who play the game, and are generally honest and helpful people if you look at their post history on various forums, have put their word against yours, and since they have produced more evidence than you, as they play the game, (and you have motive to not be telling the truth since you like to bash the game, and they are clearly not trying to recruit as they'd much rather you didnt resub) then surely they are right, considering this situation.
While I don't like swg or what happened, I wouldn't consider myself an "angry vet". I've actually moved on to a game that I really like and only like to make the occasional comment on swg. Its not like I've devoted my life to the extinction of swg by writing letters, proposing boycotts or making my own anti-soe/swg website.
Please show a screen shot of those 4 or 5 servers on heavy, because EVERY screen shot I've seen, from the "vets" and "fanbois", shows about 20 servers at light or very light, 3 or 4 at med. and 1 or 2 at heavy. Obriak himself said just a few months ago that theres only 4 or 5 servers that even hit medium. Before the nge, almost every server was either at med. or heavy, with 4 or 5 at light or very light. Players have been crying for years now about dead servers and now theres going to be free server transfers, which is never a good sign for a games population. Also, those 2 aren't always honest about the state of the game and summarily dismiss whats been done to the game in the past as no big deal. I doubt the population is anywhere near what the "angry vets" claim (anywhere from 2-10k) but there certainly isn't over 100k, which Badgersmacker claims is very much possible.
If people enjoy the game as it is, then thats fine. People have different tastes and I'd never tell anyone what they can and can't have fun with. All I ask is people be honest.
Edit: Sorry Saay. I edited out something here. I got you confused with someone else. My apologies.
You are still completely ignoring the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever that more people played at the beginning of the NGE - I know very well populations aren't ant any of the Pre-NGE levels, i played before NGE as well and I'm not naive. I just don't understand how you can ask people to be honest when many of you here are simply making unfounded claims, and the most proof some of you guys have is logging onto a dead server and going to MO at 3am and claiming the game is dead. (im talking generally, no personal attack on you)
Daffid: If SOE are regularly viral marketing in such a way, firstly, wheres the evidence? and secondly if they no people can just do the SWG trial, why would they need to do such marketting? anyone who has a mind of their own, will want to try the game for themselves (providing not too much of the false claims from these forums have affected them), and anybody who doesnt like it will not continue to play it - thus viral marketting would be pointless, especially on these forums.
Finally, i cant talk for BadgerSmaker, but Obraik, whom i happen to know quite well, is as honest as it gets; show me one instance where he has lied.
While no one has any diect evidence that SOE is using paid viral marketers to plague these boards, SONY has been caught doing similar things in the past:
www.itwire.com/content/view/8138/53/
We know the people we are dealing with are not above using underhanded tactics to market their products, and have created false internet personas to do so.
It is quite likely they would do so here. Looking at the repetitious nature of certain posts around here and the completely tenacious and irrational love these folks seem to have for SOE, it makes sense to assume it is highly likely that these folks, or at least some of them, are SONY created fakes.
Had SONY not been already known for doing these things, I could see being incredulous. In that this is not the case, one has to regard all pro-SONY internet chat as being suspect. That's all SONY's fault. They wrecked their own credibility forever. That's done.
Those most recent and repetitive posts are those of Wildcat, he admitted it essentially. Hypocracy.
So what is hypocritical about doing what SONY has already been caught doing? Of having a little fun with the whole idea? Sounds like satire, not hypocrisy.
What IS suspicious is people getting angry or upset over it, and launching personal attacks and cries of things like hypocrisy. That makes no sense whatsoever. Unless of course you count on SONY for your bread and butter...or you take it personaly when someone mock SONY viral marketers.
Why would someone take such a thing personally?
Is this a serious question? Because Wildcat is making fun of the current players, that's why. Having read what you people spew on that garbage dump of a forum you created for yourselves to QQ your lives away, it is obvious that you people exist only to insult the current playerbase. Please continue failing.
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
This is in response to Kobie's last post. I didn't want to copy the whole quote chain :P.
I have read posts where current players are insulted, and I've read posts where former players are insulted. Tbh, I don't think a lot of good is accomplished either way.
I'm aware that some folks that post at MMOfringe try hard not to be insulting. Fisher, for example, tries to do some bridge building even between former players and former devs. There's just too much animosity I think though, and usually the people that end up exchanging harsh words never had any real decision making power to begin with. Players are bitter and devs are bitter, and this all seems to be a trickle down effect related to upper level management decisions at SOE and LEC.
For my part, I try to focus on providing useful, interesting information to consumers and fellow gamers. I also sometimes try to highlight what I think is going on with the game, and encourage SOE to pursue excellence. I'd like nothing better than for SOE to manage SWG in stellar fashion (this would include honest, memorable marketting of a polished product). It would be to the mutual advantage of SOE management, developers and SWG players, I think.
At least we give you something to do...I mean somebody has to be reporting all of our posts here.
I read your post and I got the basics of your theory, no need for insults, because to be honest it was a ridiculous theory in the first place. Blaming angry vets for trying to market SWG (amongst the other titles) as if it is their fault. Most people don't even catch on that it follows a basic format or suspect it is viral marketing in the first place.
This kind of viral marketing is present in lots of SOE games on lots of forums. It usually happens in around the same time as some marketing push or event. It isn't something limited to SWG.
This is not some disorganized agena of angry vets.
Of course it is. When you look at posts by people like John.Galt, it is so blatantly obvious that he's a vet posing as a "fanboi," because very, very few current players actually feel that way (and "jedee"? Come on). However, a great many of the so-called "vets" are absolutely convinced that ALL the current players feel that way. Hence, some so-called "vet" is trying to make the current players look stupid by posting nonsense, and you guys are biting hook, line and sinker.
I have to agree. Some of these posts are most likely from some "disgruntled vet". Its pretty obvious to me. Whats funny, though, is that someone unfamiliar with swg probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You have people like Obriak and (more specifically) Badgersmacker spreading misinformation and telling outright lies about the state of swg. Whether its fun or not or if its significantly better than when the nge first came out is debatable. However, theres no way in hell theres more people playing now than when the nge first launched. Badgersmacker has claimed on several occasions that theres more people playing today and Obriak uses the population of his server to "prove" swg has lots of people still playing. Theres way too much evidence to the contrary, like every server but 4 or 5 being light or very light and the upcoming free server transfers.
But yeah, if anyone is misrepresenting themselves while posting here it only serves to make them look bad.
Hmm, how does the fact that 4 or 5 servers are heavy now, disprove that there were less people when the NGE launched, for you have not statistics/server loads to offer on that period. The only "evidence" involved in any of this post is the fact that two people who play the game, and are generally honest and helpful people if you look at their post history on various forums, have put their word against yours, and since they have produced more evidence than you, as they play the game, (and you have motive to not be telling the truth since you like to bash the game, and they are clearly not trying to recruit as they'd much rather you didnt resub) then surely they are right, considering this situation.
While I don't like swg or what happened, I wouldn't consider myself an "angry vet". I've actually moved on to a game that I really like and only like to make the occasional comment on swg. Its not like I've devoted my life to the extinction of swg by writing letters, proposing boycotts or making my own anti-soe/swg website.
Please show a screen shot of those 4 or 5 servers on heavy, because EVERY screen shot I've seen, from the "vets" and "fanbois", shows about 20 servers at light or very light, 3 or 4 at med. and 1 or 2 at heavy. Obriak himself said just a few months ago that theres only 4 or 5 servers that even hit medium. Before the nge, almost every server was either at med. or heavy, with 4 or 5 at light or very light. Players have been crying for years now about dead servers and now theres going to be free server transfers, which is never a good sign for a games population. Also, those 2 aren't always honest about the state of the game and summarily dismiss whats been done to the game in the past as no big deal. I doubt the population is anywhere near what the "angry vets" claim (anywhere from 2-10k) but there certainly isn't over 100k, which Badgersmacker claims is very much possible.
If people enjoy the game as it is, then thats fine. People have different tastes and I'd never tell anyone what they can and can't have fun with. All I ask is people be honest.
Edit: Sorry Saay. I edited out something here. I got you confused with someone else. My apologies.
You are still completely ignoring the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever that more people played at the beginning of the NGE - I know very well populations aren't ant any of the Pre-NGE levels, i played before NGE as well and I'm not naive. I just don't understand how you can ask people to be honest when many of you here are simply making unfounded claims, and the most proof some of you guys have is logging onto a dead server and going to MO at 3am and claiming the game is dead. (im talking generally, no personal attack on you)
Daffid: If SOE are regularly viral marketing in such a way, firstly, wheres the evidence? and secondly if they no people can just do the SWG trial, why would they need to do such marketting? anyone who has a mind of their own, will want to try the game for themselves (providing not too much of the false claims from these forums have affected them), and anybody who doesnt like it will not continue to play it - thus viral marketting would be pointless, especially on these forums.
Finally, i cant talk for BadgerSmaker, but Obraik, whom i happen to know quite well, is as honest as it gets; show me one instance where he has lied.
While no one has any diect evidence that SOE is using paid viral marketers to plague these boards, SONY has been caught doing similar things in the past:
www.itwire.com/content/view/8138/53/
We know the people we are dealing with are not above using underhanded tactics to market their products, and have created false internet personas to do so.
It is quite likely they would do so here. Looking at the repetitious nature of certain posts around here and the completely tenacious and irrational love these folks seem to have for SOE, it makes sense to assume it is highly likely that these folks, or at least some of them, are SONY created fakes.
Had SONY not been already known for doing these things, I could see being incredulous. In that this is not the case, one has to regard all pro-SONY internet chat as being suspect. That's all SONY's fault. They wrecked their own credibility forever. That's done.
Those most recent and repetitive posts are those of Wildcat, he admitted it essentially. Hypocracy.
So what is hypocritical about doing what SONY has already been caught doing? Of having a little fun with the whole idea? Sounds like satire, not hypocrisy.
What IS suspicious is people getting angry or upset over it, and launching personal attacks and cries of things like hypocrisy. That makes no sense whatsoever. Unless of course you count on SONY for your bread and butter...or you take it personaly when someone mock SONY viral marketers.
Why would someone take such a thing personally?
Its hypocritical as he is the first one to attack SOE on viral marketing, saying the likes of me and others are employed by SOE. Some may see it as satire, but its hardly funny, or infact truthful, since no one has come in here saying anything remotely like he has in his John.Galt posts, infact thats exactly what swg players are NOT like; to me this is hypocracy, nothing else.
The point is, there is no evidence that SOE has undertaken viral marketing, yet there is 100% proof that Wildcat has....
I dont take it too personally, although he has attacked me in the past, I just hate someone bashing SOE on something that they havent neccessarily done, especially when the person does it themselves.....Yes SOE have made huge mistakes, and no, of course they are not an admirable company, but its hardly fair to attack them on something like this in such a way.
Actually, the John.Galt posts sound a great deal like a lot of posts I see here -- interesting that you can't hear it though.
Actually there is 100% proof that SONY has hired viral marketers, and what Cat, if it is in, is doing is NOT what we are talking about as viral marketing. Viral marketing, in the unethical sense, is when a companyt pays for people to create false personas to sell their product.
For a private citizen to do the same thing isn't the same thing at all. It is the corporation PAYING for it that is at issue, NOT people talking about things on the internet.
Now for the really weird part of your post. Why do you HATE people who accuse a corporation of doing something. HATE??? That's pretty twisted if you actually HATE people who attack SONY.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I read your post and I got the basics of your theory, no need for insults, because to be honest it was a ridiculous theory in the first place. Blaming angry vets for trying to market SWG (amongst the other titles) as if it is their fault. Most people don't even catch on that it follows a basic format or suspect it is viral marketing in the first place.
This kind of viral marketing is present in lots of SOE games on lots of forums. It usually happens in around the same time as some marketing push or event. It isn't something limited to SWG.
This is not some disorganized agena of angry vets.
Of course it is. When you look at posts by people like John.Galt, it is so blatantly obvious that he's a vet posing as a "fanboi," because very, very few current players actually feel that way (and "jedee"? Come on). However, a great many of the so-called "vets" are absolutely convinced that ALL the current players feel that way. Hence, some so-called "vet" is trying to make the current players look stupid by posting nonsense, and you guys are biting hook, line and sinker.
I have to agree. Some of these posts are most likely from some "disgruntled vet". Its pretty obvious to me. Whats funny, though, is that someone unfamiliar with swg probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. You have people like Obriak and (more specifically) Badgersmacker spreading misinformation and telling outright lies about the state of swg. Whether its fun or not or if its significantly better than when the nge first came out is debatable. However, theres no way in hell theres more people playing now than when the nge first launched. Badgersmacker has claimed on several occasions that theres more people playing today and Obriak uses the population of his server to "prove" swg has lots of people still playing. Theres way too much evidence to the contrary, like every server but 4 or 5 being light or very light and the upcoming free server transfers.
But yeah, if anyone is misrepresenting themselves while posting here it only serves to make them look bad.
Hmm, how does the fact that 4 or 5 servers are heavy now, disprove that there were less people when the NGE launched, for you have not statistics/server loads to offer on that period. The only "evidence" involved in any of this post is the fact that two people who play the game, and are generally honest and helpful people if you look at their post history on various forums, have put their word against yours, and since they have produced more evidence than you, as they play the game, (and you have motive to not be telling the truth since you like to bash the game, and they are clearly not trying to recruit as they'd much rather you didnt resub) then surely they are right, considering this situation.
While I don't like swg or what happened, I wouldn't consider myself an "angry vet". I've actually moved on to a game that I really like and only like to make the occasional comment on swg. Its not like I've devoted my life to the extinction of swg by writing letters, proposing boycotts or making my own anti-soe/swg website.
Please show a screen shot of those 4 or 5 servers on heavy, because EVERY screen shot I've seen, from the "vets" and "fanbois", shows about 20 servers at light or very light, 3 or 4 at med. and 1 or 2 at heavy. Obriak himself said just a few months ago that theres only 4 or 5 servers that even hit medium. Before the nge, almost every server was either at med. or heavy, with 4 or 5 at light or very light. Players have been crying for years now about dead servers and now theres going to be free server transfers, which is never a good sign for a games population. Also, those 2 aren't always honest about the state of the game and summarily dismiss whats been done to the game in the past as no big deal. I doubt the population is anywhere near what the "angry vets" claim (anywhere from 2-10k) but there certainly isn't over 100k, which Badgersmacker claims is very much possible.
If people enjoy the game as it is, then thats fine. People have different tastes and I'd never tell anyone what they can and can't have fun with. All I ask is people be honest.
Edit: Sorry Saay. I edited out something here. I got you confused with someone else. My apologies.
You are still completely ignoring the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever that more people played at the beginning of the NGE - I know very well populations aren't ant any of the Pre-NGE levels, i played before NGE as well and I'm not naive. I just don't understand how you can ask people to be honest when many of you here are simply making unfounded claims, and the most proof some of you guys have is logging onto a dead server and going to MO at 3am and claiming the game is dead. (im talking generally, no personal attack on you)
Daffid: If SOE are regularly viral marketing in such a way, firstly, wheres the evidence? and secondly if they no people can just do the SWG trial, why would they need to do such marketting? anyone who has a mind of their own, will want to try the game for themselves (providing not too much of the false claims from these forums have affected them), and anybody who doesnt like it will not continue to play it - thus viral marketting would be pointless, especially on these forums.
Finally, i cant talk for BadgerSmaker, but Obraik, whom i happen to know quite well, is as honest as it gets; show me one instance where he has lied.
While no one has any diect evidence that SOE is using paid viral marketers to plague these boards, SONY has been caught doing similar things in the past:
www.itwire.com/content/view/8138/53/
We know the people we are dealing with are not above using underhanded tactics to market their products, and have created false internet personas to do so.
It is quite likely they would do so here. Looking at the repetitious nature of certain posts around here and the completely tenacious and irrational love these folks seem to have for SOE, it makes sense to assume it is highly likely that these folks, or at least some of them, are SONY created fakes.
Had SONY not been already known for doing these things, I could see being incredulous. In that this is not the case, one has to regard all pro-SONY internet chat as being suspect. That's all SONY's fault. They wrecked their own credibility forever. That's done.
Those most recent and repetitive posts are those of Wildcat, he admitted it essentially. Hypocracy.
So what is hypocritical about doing what SONY has already been caught doing? Of having a little fun with the whole idea? Sounds like satire, not hypocrisy.
What IS suspicious is people getting angry or upset over it, and launching personal attacks and cries of things like hypocrisy. That makes no sense whatsoever. Unless of course you count on SONY for your bread and butter...or you take it personaly when someone mock SONY viral marketers.
Why would someone take such a thing personally?
Is this a serious question? Because Wildcat is making fun of the current players, that's why. Having read what you people spew on that garbage dump of a forum you created for yourselves to QQ your lives away, it is obvious that you people exist only to insult the current playerbase. Please continue failing.
he's not making fun of current players, he is making fun of SOME current players. I am a current player, and I know I don't sound like that. Do you? If not, then it certainly doesn't apply to you, and no reason you should be so full of hate and anger over it.
fishermage.blogspot.com