PVP not equal

Terranah · January 2009

This is a bad idea. Now more than ever we have a reason to exploit and hack our way to the top. Imagine what that account will sell for.

I don't think if that person is truly the best player on the server that they need a buff to make them more godly.

SinzOfMan · January 2009

Couple questions.

1. If this Hero is offline, is the next best dude promoted to Hero? If so what if top dog logs back in, does it he get Hero back?

2. If K/D ratio is a main requirement, wouldn't someone once he acquires Hero status be able to just increase and increase his ratio faster than anyone else on his team? How would someone ever overcome his ratio?

I haven't really been following this game much. At first thought, this idea sounds horrible. To allow some guy all this power sounds pretty frustrating. Also it would naturally make people play even more to try to obtain this status. It sounds really addictive, which is dangerous with a sedentary activity such as playing a video game. Good for business, bad for health.

On the other hand, it's different! The more I picture it, it's something I haven't seen before and adds a whole new element to pvp. If only this were a physically active game. I honestly can see someone being hospitalized either trying to obtain this Hero status, or maintaining it at all costs once achieved.

xxkari · January 2009

The system is based on a scaling kill/death ratio and a minimum abyss point requirement.

Which means that the ranks from 14 to 18 will be constantly changing hands due to competition.

It is nearly humanly impossible to keep a rank forever based on this system.

[Humanly, because rampant botting at the moment is a problem]

If the person with the "Commander in Chief" [Rank 18] [~1.2m abyss point min req and best k/d ratio] title logs off or dies or gets camped by a party he will lose the lead.

Being a hero might be overpowered but it does not equate to invincibility. All hero abilities are confined to the abyss and any action a hero ranked player takes is broadcast-ed along with the area they are in. Hero abilities are meant to increase the overall advantage of a faction, while they may be extremely over powered at the moment it is still quite possible to camp and stop them as these abilities are on long cool downs. Killing a hero nets far greater a reward than a normal player. Although it has not been stated what those rewards are.

While I agree that the system is flawed in some aspects, the great thing about being the last in line to see the game live, is that by the time we see a release, the issues will most likely already be addressed.

Mykell · January 2009

The idea of an itelligent raid boss is interesting. Personally i would have a more random system where once you reach the highest level the game randomly picks a player (say its a gift of the gods) and bestows them these god powers for a limited time. Less chance for exploiting or hacking determining who gets to be the hero.

Just because they say only the best PvPers will be a hero doesnt mean people wont try or find a way around it. Some people will do anything to be the "best" and every mmo ive played has had some type of hackj/exploit/bots in it.

Booksy · January 2009

Originally posted by VirgoThree

I really like the idea and I would love to see the hero from each side duking it out in the abyss. It would be clash of the titans. I think the system is fair and equal. Both sides can have one hero so if you spend equal amount of time played as the guys competing for hero then it really just boils down to who is the best out of that group to earn the title. I will more then likely never come anywhere close to getting that title and I don't plan to either. I still think it's a neat idea to have an exclusive reward like that.

There's no point for the Hero's to fight. It means they loose hero status and that's bad for their PVE guild.

All the high end guild controll who is hero, not random people, you can't go "watch on the side why they fight it out", don't be silly.

Hacker guild taking abyss points and then they come to kill you with their Hero party.

It's broken.

Booksy · January 2009

Originally posted by SinzOfMan

2. If K/D ratio is a main requirement, wouldn't someone once he acquires Hero status be able to just increase and increase his ratio faster than anyone else on his team? How would someone ever overcome his ratio?

The hero status stays in the most powerfull guild on the server. Other commander positions too.

No point to fight other teams hero because killing lower rank players is easy to stay on top.

If you want to kill Hero of the same team you would need to decide with other faction guilds to treason own teams. Doesn't work because you cannot chat with them.

Elyos cannot talk to Asmo in the game, chat is blocked.

xpiher · January 2009

Originally posted by Cynthe

Originally posted by Albos

This system is unfair and just by this news i know at least 7 people (my best friends) just lost interest on this game and trust me we were waiting for this game like hawks. And please dont talk about changing the wow system we saw some youtube videos including tutorials and the game is a wow clone with better grafix which is not all that, gameplay, plot is what we need not some shiny grafix. Well so long aion hopefully codename rapture wont take long...come on SE give us news.
By the way FFXI has nothing to do with any other mmorpg its the only unique mmo out there to date, all the other mmos are clones like it or not.

OMFG!! The ONLY way this game is a WoW clone is when talking about the leveling curve!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People really do read only what they want to. Honestly.

If it walks like a duck, acts like a duck, then it is a duck.

Sorry, but reading the info, seeing the combat system, rank structure, ect make me believe that this just carbon copy korean game. Maybe not a WoW clone, but certainly not that unique,

Booksy · January 2009

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Cynthe

Originally posted by Albos

This system is unfair and just by this news i know at least 7 people (my best friends) just lost interest on this game and trust me we were waiting for this game like hawks. And please dont talk about changing the wow system we saw some youtube videos including tutorials and the game is a wow clone with better grafix which is not all that, gameplay, plot is what we need not some shiny grafix. Well so long aion hopefully codename rapture wont take long...come on SE give us news.
By the way FFXI has nothing to do with any other mmorpg its the only unique mmo out there to date, all the other mmos are clones like it or not.

OMFG!! The ONLY way this game is a WoW clone is when talking about the leveling curve!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People really do read only what they want to. Honestly.

If it walks like a duck, acts like a duck, then it is a duck.

Sorry, but reading the info, seeing the combat system, rank structure, ect make me believe that this just carbon copy korean game. Maybe not a WoW clone, but certainly not that unique,

Leveling system is the same as WoW, quest. If you run out of quest you can kill.

But after max level the game is grind Abyss points to become higher rank PVP. First rank is not too hard, second is a long time, rest is weeks and weeks of grind. Casual players have no chance.

Neyon · January 2009

Yes - casual players DO have a chance - as I have said a million times endless grinding is not going to get you anywhere in the abyss without a high level of skill to go with it.

You really are knitpicking a bit - you're saying that after you hit max level you're going to keep on grinding? Well thats upto you not the game lol - go do something else.

VirgoThree · January 2009

Originally posted by Booksy

Originally posted by VirgoThree

I really like the idea and I would love to see the hero from each side duking it out in the abyss. It would be clash of the titans. I think the system is fair and equal. Both sides can have one hero so if you spend equal amount of time played as the guys competing for hero then it really just boils down to who is the best out of that group to earn the title. I will more then likely never come anywhere close to getting that title and I don't plan to either. I still think it's a neat idea to have an exclusive reward like that.

There's no point for the Hero's to fight. It means they loose hero status and that's bad for their PVE guild.

All the high end guild controll who is hero, not random people, you can't go "watch on the side why they fight it out", don't be silly.

Hacker guild taking abyss points and then they come to kill you with their Hero party.

It's broken.

Meh I say don't judge it too harshly until you've had a chance to sink your teeth into it. Everyone seems to jump the gun and just say it's bad right away. We don't know every detail just yet, and it still has time to be tweaked for western release. What's really going to matter is the execution and how it will be handled. If the system is built well and prevents exploiting then we may have a keeper. Just have faith and if it doesn't pan out...just move on no harm no foul.

NBlitz · January 2009

Originally posted by Booksy

Leveling system is the same as WoW, quest. If you run out of quest you can kill.
But after max level the game is grind Abyss points to become higher rank PVP. First rank is not too hard, second is a long time, rest is weeks and weeks of grind. Casual players have no chance.

{ Mod Edit } Why don't you wait until you can play the game? Hmm?

You can also gain xp by gathering materials (for crafting) and since I stopped playing while I was a lowbie perhaps there are more ways to gain xp.

Callstack · January 2009

PVP needs to be equal or only a few will keep killing everyone else. Why would I play a game where I ONLY get killed by players with more time on their hands than me.
ALL PLAYERS should have a chance to have fun in PVP..............REPEAT............ALL PLAYERS....not only grind 24/7 NO LIFERS ok. WE all pay the same amount for the game not? Why would the players stay with Aion when a few no life get so much power when other games let them have fun too.
This is grinder or get killed after level 40.
You can't battle in Abyss if you're not part of the high end guilds because you just get melee killed or AE destroyed by Heroes.
If you have no life, GRATS, you can play too and be special too. Sucks for everyone else.

No one cries that soccer player that trains more than others is better. Novice or Professional player pays for renting the soccer field and it is all about that going in nature.

Same goes to election of president, you can claim that it is unfair that you're not the one, but you should be equal. It's just BS.

It's the same attitude like beggars, like they do nothing and say that is unfair that they have no money, while others work hard (I mean beggars from lazyness here, don't flame ^^)

All you post here shows that this game is not for you. I liked the hero concept in L2, never been one thought, but this introduces new strategies to the game and is great IMO. They are not immortal, there was a movie, when some duelist (non-hero) killed 2 heros at once (the 2nd one bsoed though).

Booksy · January 2009

Originally posted by LemmyPL

No one cries that soccer player that trains more than others is better. Novice or Professional player pays for renting the soccer field and it is all about that going in nature.
Same goes to election of president, you can claim that it is unfair that you're not the one, but you should be equal. It's just BS.
It's the same attitude like beggars, like they do nothing and say that is unfair that they have no money, while others work hard (I mean beggars from lazyness here, don't flame ^^)
All you post here shows that this game is not for you. I liked the hero concept in L2, never been one thought, but this introduces new strategies to the game and is great IMO. They are not immortal, there was a movie, when some duelist (non-hero) killed 2 heros at once (the 2nd one bsoed though).

No, I do not mind the hero, I mind what it does to the game. It is non stop grind for abyss points. Viscious circle of grinding where you need to play so many hours to keep up each day.

If they are the best PVP why give them even more bonus? It makes it so that the best guilds get all the power and casual player are minions.

It's the same system as Lineage 2 just 10 times worse grind.

Booksy · January 2009

Yes, much better to say nothing bad about the game and just praise the graphics.

So after release everyone can QQ about how bad this and that is. Much better to do that.

There will be a lot of QQ if players think there's no grind.

NBlitz · January 2009

Originally posted by Booksy
Yes, much better to say nothing bad about the game and just praise the graphics. So after release everyone can QQ about how bad this and that is. Much better to do that. There will be a lot of QQ if players think there's no grind.

Heck, I've been browsing aionsource for threads that highlight other aspects of the game that do not include only the graphics. The translated stuff certainly helped. The way it was brought up always invited discussion without first going

Game is ruined.

No life grinder wins the game.

Leveling system is the same as WoW, quest. If you run out of quest you can kill.

But after max level the game is grind Abyss points to become higher rank PVP.

See what I mean?

Greets.

Neyon · January 2009

Originally posted by Booksy

Yes, much better to say nothing bad about the game and just praise the graphics.
So after release everyone can QQ about how bad this and that is. Much better to do that.
There will be a lot of QQ if players think there's no grind.

Lol cuz you're not saying anything bad about the game. You're highlighting a good feature and are whining about it because you know you will never be the best player in the world.

Deron_Barak · January 2009

I'm going to reserve my opinion about the Hero class until I see a piece about it from NCSoft, you know, the developers. This rampant speculaion, though entertaining, is out of hand. The only proof we have that the Hero Class even exists is a video...that's it.

I have to give you credit Booksy. You post one verifiable piece of information, a video of the Hero class in action, and after that? Post after post worded like you've played yourself and have seen it first hand. Where's your proof or are you just speculating like the rest of us?

If you can come up with information sourced from NCSoft please do.

Neyon · January 2009

Originally posted by Deron_Barak

I'm going to reserve my opinion about the Hero class until I see a piece about it from NCSoft, you know, the developers. This rampant speculaion, though entertaining, is out of hand. The only proof we have that the Hero Class even exists is a video...that's it.
I have to give you credit Booksy. You post one verifiable piece of information, a video of the Hero class in action, and after that? Post after post worded like you've played yourself and have seen it first hand. Where's your proof or are you just speculating like the rest of us?
If you can come up with information sourced from NCSoft please do.

Lol all of our info is from players that ARE playing the game at the moment. He hasn't come up with anything he is just whining about how not everybody can be number 1.

Secondly - I am not sure if that video is even of a player at the Hero rank at all.

Sovrath · January 2009

Originally posted by Neyon

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Neyon

Meh, similarily, I would like to see chanters (the healer classes) lean more towards healing (ie what they are supposed to do) than attack skills.

hmmm, this I disagree with. I think that everyone should be able to hold their own. I do believe that pure damage dealers should be just that.

But even in Guild Wars, the healers can do damage. it adds a nice level of usefulness. Of course, perhaps there is a way to slide your character more toward one and away from the other.

Also, to others, as Neyon pointed out in another thread, just because you have the points, doesn't mean that you will get the rewards in Abyss pvp. Apparently there are other factors as well. So grinding out points will only get you the ticket for admission.

Yes, I have played GW for a long time but monks have never been considered damage dealers. I understand the need for all classes to hold their own - but healers are healers not damage dealers.

Healers should be good in pvp cuz they are hard to kill not cuz they pwn everything - and should get abyssal points for healing faction members too. It is simply unfair to make them good at killing and good at healing - other classes don't get such abilities.

But the healers in Guild Wars, if specc'ed right, can do decent damage. They are not the end all be all but any player would stupid to discount their ability.

To that end, there is nothign wrong with a warrior priest. There is a difference between being able to do top damage AND heal as opposed to being able to do damage and heal.

For healers I go with the latter. Otherwise what you get is a class that can't take care of itself, has difficulty leveling (Lineage 2, I'm looking at you) and requires groups to do anything.

So I don't have problems with healer classes being able to do damage. they should not be able to out damage any of the damage dealing classes but they should be able to level and contribute. Otherwise the system would just seem too 2 dimensional. Even in Dungeons and Dragons Clerics could do damage. There is precedent, but even if there wasn't I am all for breaking the mold.

Neyon · January 2009

Well its simply unfair is one class can do absoloutly everything. There are classes in the first place to differ the gameplay by giving players different advantages / disadvantages depending on their class. I find it insanely childish to start whining about one classes disadvantages when all the other classes face them too.

Sovrath · January 2009

Originally posted by Neyon

Well its simply unfair is one class can do absoloutly everything. There are classes in the first place to differ the gameplay by giving players different advantages / disadvantages depending on their class. I find it insanely childish to start whining about one classes disadvantages when all the other classes face them too.

I don't understand why this is a problem.

There is doing "DAMAGE" and doing "damage".

Healers can do "damage". They will not be able keep up with a "DAMAGE" dealing class. From what I remember, it was not the healers that players were concerned about in pvp.

Cynthe · January 2009

Originally posted by xpiher

If it walks like a duck, acts like a duck, then it is a duck.
Sorry, but reading the info, seeing the combat system, rank structure, ect make me believe that this just carbon copy korean game. Maybe not a WoW clone, but certainly not that unique,

Who ever said this was ever supposed to be unique? No one. Do your homework and then come back and talk. The game has always been a composition of different ideas from a few well known MMOs, WoW, EQ2, Lineage ect... It is not a copy of these games, it is an assembly of them in one package. Therefore in a way it is unique, but in another way it is not at all. And most of us here love this.

Booksy: Leveling system is the same as WoW, quest. If you run out of quest you can kill.

But after max level the game is grind Abyss points to become higher rank PVP. First rank is not too hard, second is a long time, rest is weeks and weeks of grind. Casual players have no chance.

I plan to play as a casual player who doesn't even PvP very much. Yes I have no chance. No chance at what? As a casual player I enter the game knowing full well what I can and cannot do. Can I ever be a hero? Hell no, why would I want to? Being hunted down by raiding parties is not appealing to me at all, that said I can still contribute to my group and have fun in the game by dungeon running, crafting ect...

Heh guess what? In an MMO you cannot achieve everything unless you put in the time and effort, and if you are unwilling or unable then you live with it and become the best at something else. This is not and I WIN button game and quite frankly it distresses me and how big of a push there is for such a game. One that would be extremely boring imo.

You seem to think this feature will somehow unbablance something, all I've seen so far are reports of jealous players. Why should grinding points bother anyone? There isn't supposed to be 1000's of heroes, how else would NC ensure only a few ever gains the title? And if you had it what would you do with it?

dave6660 · January 2009

Originally posted by WSIMike

Except let's hope it's implemented in Aion in such a way that it can't be exploited as it is in L2.
Getting Hero in L2 isn't "won" (with very few exceptions). It's arranged, and controlled, by only the most powerful clans/allies on the server.
It's decided who is going to be the Hero for a given class, then that player is "fed" points by clan/ally mates and/or others, to make sure they have enough to win it.
If you're a "nobody", and you try for Hero when it was "someone else's turn", don't be surprised when their clan, ally and/or their friends declare war and gank you and your clan-mates... as punishment, for trying to "take it without their permission". This has happened many times before.
I don't even consider anyone who Hero to be anything special. It was "their turn", nothing more. It's not "may the best fighter win". It's "may the next person in line please step forward".
I've seen people openly laughed at when they got Hero, because it's well known that they're one of the worst of their class on the server. They couldn't PvP their way out of a wet paper bag with instructions and a starter hole when faced with even a decent match. Yet, they're awarded a status intended to be held by the best of their class.
A friend of mine wants Hero, not because he thinks it's something special. He knows it's a joke. He just wants to be able to talk in Hero chat.
In concept, the Hero system is great. If it's handled differently in Aion, it'll be fine. If it's broken as badly as it is in L2.. it'll be a joke all over again.
And I don't say that out of bitterness or jealousy. I've had no delusions of ever getting Hero. I just don't play at that level. But I do hate when a game system is so horribly exploited and abused, that it's basically pointless.

Yeah I watch the system get exploited in Lineage 2. It's always the same clans competing in the Olympiad, most of whose member botted their way to S grade.

The same thing was done in WoW when the BG's first released. The number one spot was on a scheduled rotation and anyone who upset their little scheme was flamed on the forums and in game.

This type of system is just begging for abuse.

Booksy · January 2009

Originally posted by Cynthe

Originally posted by xpiher

If it walks like a duck, acts like a duck, then it is a duck.
Sorry, but reading the info, seeing the combat system, rank structure, ect make me believe that this just carbon copy korean game. Maybe not a WoW clone, but certainly not that unique,

Who ever said this was ever supposed to be unique? No one. Do your homework and then come back and talk. The game has always been a composition of different ideas from a few well known MMOs, WoW, EQ2, Lineage ect... It is not a copy of these games, it is an assembly of them in one package. Therefore in a way it is unique, but in another way it is not at all. And most of us here love this.

Booksy: Leveling system is the same as WoW, quest. If you run out of quest you can kill.

But after max level the game is grind Abyss points to become higher rank PVP. First rank is not too hard, second is a long time, rest is weeks and weeks of grind. Casual players have no chance.

I plan to play as a casual player who doesn't even PvP very much. Yes I have no chance. No chance at what? As a casual player I enter the game knowing full well what I can and cannot do. Can I ever be a hero? Hell no, why would I want to? Being hunted down by raiding parties is not appealing to me at all, that said I can still contribute to my group and have fun in the game by dungeon running, crafting ect...

Heh guess what? In an MMO you cannot achieve everything unless you put in the time and effort, and if you are unwilling or unable then you live with it and become the best at something else. This is not and I WIN button game and quite frankly it distresses me and how big of a push there is for such a game. One that would be extremely boring imo.

You seem to think this feature will somehow unbablance something, all I've seen so far are reports of jealous players. Why should grinding points bother anyone? There isn't supposed to be 1000's of heroes, how else would NC ensure only a few ever gains the title? And if you had it what would you do with it?

Ok I understand. I don't understand why I should fight for specific hero's when most just botted their way their with hacks or botter legion. Why help them with fights?

You made a good point though, I can agree.

I don't think this is a good system, cause everyone wants to hack or grind now, that's all.

xpiher · January 2009

Originally posted by Cynthe

Originally posted by xpiher

If it walks like a duck, acts like a duck, then it is a duck.
Sorry, but reading the info, seeing the combat system, rank structure, ect make me believe that this just carbon copy korean game. Maybe not a WoW clone, but certainly not that unique,

Who ever said this was ever supposed to be unique? No one. Do your homework and then come back and talk. The game has always been a composition of different ideas from a few well known MMOs, WoW, EQ2, Lineage ect... It is not a copy of these games, it is an assembly of them in one package. Therefore in a way it is unique, but in another way it is not at all. And most of us here love this.

Booksy: Leveling system is the same as WoW, quest. If you run out of quest you can kill.

But after max level the game is grind Abyss points to become higher rank PVP. First rank is not too hard, second is a long time, rest is weeks and weeks of grind. Casual players have no chance.

I plan to play as a casual player who doesn't even PvP very much. Yes I have no chance. No chance at what? As a casual player I enter the game knowing full well what I can and cannot do. Can I ever be a hero? Hell no, why would I want to? Being hunted down by raiding parties is not appealing to me at all, that said I can still contribute to my group and have fun in the game by dungeon running, crafting ect...

Heh guess what? In an MMO you cannot achieve everything unless you put in the time and effort, and if you are unwilling or unable then you live with it and become the best at something else. This is not and I WIN button game and quite frankly it distresses me and how big of a push there is for such a game. One that would be extremely boring imo.

You seem to think this feature will somehow unbablance something, all I've seen so far are reports of jealous players. Why should grinding points bother anyone? There isn't supposed to be 1000's of heroes, how else would NC ensure only a few ever gains the title? And if you had it what would you do with it?

I did do my research. Aion is a them park Korean MMO meaning at its core, there isn't anything new, and since you don't PvP I don't think you understand exactly why the PvP are complaing about the hero status and need for grind. The inherent flaw in the system is that the hero class is buffed to such a level that he/she can grind out 100s of nubs to remain the hero forever. If the hero didn't get as much buffs as it apparently does have, then there wouldn't be a problem with the system since the hero would change hands every other week or so. From the looks of it, thats not going to happen.

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