screw him? he CREATED MMOs, and his MMO is to this day, the best one ever made
QFT
What does the 'T' stand for here?
Usually, QFT is used as an acronym for 'Quoted For Truth' but that definitely cannot be the case here.
Garriott did not create MMOs (I expect you think UO was the first - a common mistake, but unforgivable when Google is so readily available), and as for calling it the best one ever made, that's purely a matter of opinion.
Fair point. I never played Meridian 59 nor the very few that came before UO (excluding MUDs - I did play them). In my mind Ultima Online was the best MMORPG released and it completely boggles my mind that it's taken this many years for companies to start using it's original formula. I'm very hopeful for Darkfall Online and Mortal Online's success.
Just to clarify, since you asked: I think Garriott is responsible for an awesome, original MMORPG that many people will always view as their favourite. I didn't like Tabula Rasa either but that doesn't negate how awesome UO was. I'd be pleased to see him return to making fantasy MMORPGs since that is obviously where he has proven to be GREAT.
Worse case scenario: We get another crap game on the market - no real loss to us since we won't lose what we don't have.
screw him? he CREATED MMOs, and his MMO is to this day, the best one ever made
QFT
What does the 'T' stand for here? Usually, QFT is used as an acronym for 'Quoted For Truth' but that definitely cannot be the case here. Garriott did not create MMOs (I expect you think UO was the first - a common mistake, but unforgivable when Google is so readily available), and as for calling it the best one ever made, that's purely a matter of opinion.
Thank you for saying this, darwa. UO was NOT the first MMO, and while it is similar in concept to Darkfall, and I am interested in Darkfall, I never really liked UO.
Also, TR is crap on a cracker. Angel, I can't believe for a second you work in the industry with the way you talk.
This is what Garriot seems to be. Great ideas that get poorly executed by his teams. I dread the introduction of another one. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
He won't fool me a third time. There's no saying for it!
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
You guys do know that his space flight was a publicity stunt for Tabula Rase right?
Silly fellow. The ride wasn't to publicize the game, but RG occasionally used the game to publicize his ride. When RG got attn from the press about his ride, he never mentioned either NsSoft or the game. He is not th sort of guy who shares.
ok lets clear some stuff up.
There is tons of thing you guys are assuming here.
For one RG father was an astronaught which is why RG was going in to space in the first place. His father got him interested in the space tourism industry.The payment for his ride was to help fund the space tourism industry, of which he also is invested in.
He paid out of his own pocket for the space ride to fund his own company. Basically all he did is take the money out of his bank account and put it in to his own compnay. It was a majority of his money, around 30 million.
He's been involved in the space industry for a long time. The planed flight was something that was in the works long before anyone had even thought of Tabula Rasa. I think even before he formed Destination Games.
The timing was right, and he took the oppertunity to go, and publicize it, and he did big time btw! He had booths at all the conventions having people sign up for the contest. He even produced and haded out swag for it.
NCsoft NA was his company Destination Games. He sold it to NCsoft and stayed on to finish working on his game which then just had a code name.
I think the plan has always been to just stay on long enough to finish the game. He already had stakes in another venture and industry.
He did the space flight to both promote his old venture, and his new venture.He got some publicity for the game, and his new company. He didnt have to do anything for Tabula Rasa, but he did, because NCsoft had proven that they were not behind the game.
Everything that has happened was beneficial for NCsoft. They got their north american hq, and a game development company established all in one shot. They called it a partnership, but that isn't really what it looked like to a lot of people.
There is no loss for NCsoft, so I have no idea where this speculation comes from. I think NCsoft only really wanted to establish the north amarican office. I don't think they cared to much about the game in the first place. I imagine it was kind of a bastard child/contractual obligation for the deal. So when RG left, they cut the funding.
I don't think it was a suprise to NCsoft that he left, or RG that they cut the funding. Personally I think it was very arrogant of NCsoft to do it, and it makes it obvious what there intentions were all along. They never backed the game for the start. I can only imagine if they did. It is a great game now that it is finished. No thanks to NCsoft.
I think a lot of people and companies are turned off by NCsoft because of their business practices. I'm glad Cryptic got out from under them.
I think you guys have this situation all turned around.
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sorry about your eyes I got short on time, and had to rush it.
You guys do know that his space flight was a publicity stunt for Tabula Rase right?
Silly fellow. The ride wasn't to publicize the game, but RG occasionally used the game to publicize his ride. When RG got attn from the press about his ride, he never mentioned either NsSoft or the game. He is not th sort of guy who shares.
ok lets clear some stuff up.
There is tons of thing you guys are assuming here. For one RG father was an astronaught which is why RG was going in to space in the first place. His father got him interested in the space tourism industry.The payment for his ride was to help fund the space tourism industry, of which he also is invested in. He paid out of his own pocket for the space ride to fund his own company. Basically all he did is take the money out of his bank account and put it in to his own compnay. It was a majority of his money, around 30 million. He's been involved in the space industry for a long time. IThe planed flight was something that was in the workd long before anyone had even thought of Tabula Rasa. I think even before he formed Destination Games. The timing was right, and he took the oppertunity to go, and publicize it, and they did big time btw! NCsoft had booths at all the conventions having people sign up for the contest. They even produced and haded out swag for it. NCsoft NA was his company Destination Games. He sold it to NCsoft and stayed on to finish working on his game which then just had a code name. I think the plan has always been to the just stay on long enough to finish the game. He already had stakes in another venture and industry. He did the space flight to both promote his old venture, and his new venture. He got some publicity for the game, and his new company. He didnt have to do anything for Tabula Rasa, but he did, because NCsoft had proven that they were not behind the game. Everything that has happened was beneficial for NCsoft. They got their north american hq, and a game development company established all in one shot. They called it a partnership, but that isn't really what it looked like to a lot of people. There is no loss for NCsoft, so I have no idea where this speculation comes from. I think NCsoft only really wanted to establish the north amarican office. I don't think they cared to much about the game in the first place. I imagine it was kind of a bastard child/contractual obligation for the deal. So when RG left, they cut the funding. I don't think it was a suprise to NCsoft that he left, or RG that they cut the funding. Personally I think it was very arrogant of NCsoft to do it, and it makes it obvious what there intentions were all along.
I went blind trying to read this wall of text, could someone format this and translate it to braille so that I can read it now ?
For one RG father was an astronaught which is why RG was going in to space in the first place. His father got him interested in the space tourism industry.The payment for his ride was to help fund the space tourism industry, of which he also is invested in.
You were the one saying that he was promoting TR with the space ride. I told you otherwise. I see you've come around to my way of thinking. BTW, google up "Space Adventures Enomoto" and see how other investors who want to fly in space get treated by Richard's tourism company.
I think the plan has always been to just stay on long enough to finish the game. He already had stakes in another venture and industry.
We also agree here. I don't believe he ever committed effort, talent, or his time to the company that trusted him to live up to his side of the bargain. Are you saying that's OK with you? Fine. I think he owes his investors, employees and fans a gib apology. He stayed on long enough to release the game and then flew to Russia. It was so abrupt that it probably was contracted. But you keep ignoring the fact that the Garriott brothers were a package deal for NcSoft. Both brothers signed on and took piles of money to produce a game .
There is no loss for NCsoft, so I have no idea where this speculation comes from.
That's just plain wrong, ignorant, and deluded. But so many of his fans, however many are left, are silly and blind. This was called a "financial disaster" by the CFO in Seoul, Lee. The financial statements are available online at NcSoft.net, but some literacy is required to read them. Since you are so important in the game industry, I'm sure they'd be a snap.
NcSoft gave them seven years of their corporate life, spent over a hundred million. Here's what the Garriotts gave them in return.
Why would NCSoft give someone 7 years and over 100 million dollars with little to no say in what happens. If that is the truth, which I don't believe it is, then shame on NCSoft for failing to run their own business. What company in their right mind gives a fortune to someone and lets them drag their feet for years. Beyond that the assumption that RG was solely responsible for changing the game in a manner that makes the NGE look minor is unbelievable.
I don't think Tabula Rasa is a bad game considering someone scrapped the original fantasy based design and forced a complete rewrite of the game. It is not even a decent game considering all the resources that went into it. Whoever is responsible for making that decision is where the blame for the game should lay.
I've only played one game from either Garriot, so I'm not speaking from a fans point of view. It just doesn't make sense to think that he had this much control with such a gigantic project in this company. I udnerstand just how badly TR hurt this company which makes it that much harder to believe he had that much influence.
Folks, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Or, let me rephrase that, RG didn't do anything "wrong". It's just that his style of games isn't in style anymore.
Look at Ultima. Noooo, not UO, Ultima. The single player game series. Would you buy it today? Honestly? Ok, dated graphics and all, but imagine upping the graphics to par and then... Would you?
They're basically a LOT of story, a LOT of chitchat, a LOT of "world" but little what we consider "content" these days. Players today don't look at this kind of fluff, they don't want some background story to dig through to understand what they're supposed to do, they want some easy to play game where they go forwards, where the path that leads them forwards is well marked and they want to walk that way.
UO managed to get by despite it. It was a game at that edge between two different paradigmas and foci in games. UO would fail so miserably if released today it ain't funny. Why? Because it's sandbox'y. So much fluff, so little to "do" (read: so much bread baking and generally "living" the character, so little "kill some boss" encounters).
RG is an "old school" game designer. And thus he designs games nobody wants anymore. Or rather, games that have a focus that nobody is interested in anymore. Do you want an in-depth world? Background stoyr and "moral" decisions handed to you? Character development that goes beyond "level up and get tougher, stronger, more powerful"? Or just kill the dragon and go home with the phat loot?
The problem is not that RG makes "bad" games. The problem is, nobody wants that kind of game anymore. Or, at least, not enough people to make a profit with them.
We have no idea if sandbox games would do well in todays market, because no one has released a functional sandbox game in so many years it isn't even funny.
Your comparisons of games that are 10-20 years old as if they could not possibly evolve and would flounder in todays market is a tad unfair. No designer should be held accountable for not making their games stand the test of decades. Sure the Ultima games have outdated graphics, don't slather players in instant rewards, etc. However it sure does share a lot in common with games like fallout, morrowind/elder scrolls, etc. Even guild wars plays exteremly similar to Ultimas.
I think an Ultima game would do extremely well considering some similiar style games are some of the best series in software today. That is all assuming that it was kept up to date with todays technology, etc.
Folks, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Or, let me rephrase that, RG didn't do anything "wrong". It's just that his style of games isn't in style anymore. Look at Ultima. Noooo, not UO, Ultima. The single player game series. Would you buy it today? Honestly? Ok, dated graphics and all, but imagine upping the graphics to par and then... Would you? They're basically a LOT of story, a LOT of chitchat, a LOT of "world" but little what we consider "content" these days. Players today don't look at this kind of fluff, they don't want some background story to dig through to understand what they're supposed to do, they want some easy to play game where they go forwards, where the path that leads them forwards is well marked and they want to walk that way. UO managed to get by despite it. It was a game at that edge between two different paradigmas and foci in games. UO would fail so miserably if released today it ain't funny. Why? Because it's sandbox'y. So much fluff, so little to "do" (read: so much bread baking and generally "living" the character, so little "kill some boss" encounters). RG is an "old school" game designer. And thus he designs games nobody wants anymore. Or rather, games that have a focus that nobody is interested in anymore. Do you want an in-depth world? Background stoyr and "moral" decisions handed to you? Character development that goes beyond "level up and get tougher, stronger, more powerful"? Or just kill the dragon and go home with the phat loot? The problem is not that RG makes "bad" games. The problem is, nobody wants that kind of game anymore. Or, at least, not enough people to make a profit with them.
It's sad that a game has to be a failure because the designer is too incompetent to change with the times.
According to the media, Richard Garriott makes bad games. Maybe a few years ago he didn't, but I have no pity for his inability to cater to the current market's demands. It was his job as a designer to see what people want and engineer a suitable experience for them. He failed.
Short-sighted people make for very poor designers, so perhaps UO was a fluke and TR shows his real colors.
RG is an "old school" game designer. And thus he designs games nobody wants anymore. Or rather, games that have a focus that nobody is interested in anymore. Do you want an in-depth world? Background stoyr and "moral" decisions handed to you? Character development that goes beyond "level up and get tougher, stronger, more powerful"? Or just kill the dragon and go home with the phat loot?
That's exactly the problem...
Everyone expected a great story, Tabula Rasa had a shallow story that made little sense and the crapified end game of clan vs clan human vs human PvP made no sense at all.
Everyone expected moral decisions like Ultima, Tabula Rasa tried that but it was tacked on rather than integral to the game.
Everyone expected character development that went beyond "level up and get tougher, etc...", Tabula Rasa was pure leveling up with absolutely NOTHING to look forward to at the end of the leveling.
Tabula Rasa didn't deliver on any of the counts that you listed as "old school gaming", it was a shallow single player game that was cobbled together to try and justify the huge amount of money the producers foolishly dumped into the project.
You people are unbelievable. Just unbelievable. All you negative folks.... He's a good guy, damn good guy. What are you?
Me? I'm a student. I love to learn from my mistakes and those of others, so I would like to know how or why TR failed, but alas, there is no such information available. Not even from Game Developer magazine, which is usually quick to pick up on failures in this industry.
So where's RG's explanation for his latest stinker? He swept it under the rug and moved on like it never happened, so we're only left to speculate what really occurred during TR's development.
RG's blogs and the information snipped from Google paint a pretty good picture about him; he's a typical businessman. Nothing more. I think the man deserves no respect for being so egotistical and selfish.
Go worship Will Wright if you want someone to praise, because when he fails public expectations (ie: SPORE) he at least does so with some dignity and talks to the community about how it could have gone better.
You can learn from this man because he admits and explains his failures. This way, anyone and everyone can learn from his experience. This is how better games are made.
RG doesn't do this because he pretends he's flawless; he doesn't respond to inquiries about TR and there never was an official forum. I personally find this behavior to be counter-productive and highly loathable. So, from the perspective of a student of the arts, he deserves all the bashing that comes his way.
bleh, don't expect too much and you won't get let down (too much).
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
After some reading something comes to my mind, people that do nothing are generally the first to brand others as failures when themselves are the ones at fault.
I may not like Garriots approach and handling in TR but fact is he gave some good titles to play and he keeps on moving, like it or not TR was a good and different offer from the other copies in the market and the man is going at it again.
So all in all its profit for the industry and for the gamer comunity in generall because hopefully a good title is coming out and it will be as good or better than Ultima and i say get the man a good team and let him polish his ideias before release, its more people like him that are needed in the gaming scene.
After some reading something comes to my mind, people that do nothing are generally the first to brand others as failures when themselves are the ones at fault. I may not like Garriots approach and handling in TR but fact is he gave some good titles to play and he keeps on moving, like it or not TR was a good and different offer from the other copies in the market and the man is going at it again. So all in all its profit for the industry and for the gamer comunity in generall because hopefully a good title is coming out and it will be as good or better than Ultima and i say get the man a good team and let him polish his ideias before release, its more people like him that are needed in the gaming scene.
How can you say TR was good? It could have been good but they failed to fill the game with the needed content to make it good. Its failure is proof of this. RG is not alone in blame and most likely he was not the main reason it failed, but TR is a failure as an MMO.
No game developer on the planet could have saved Tabula Rasa after the complete design change from a sword/magic game into a psuedo first person shooter alien game. This project was doomed the moment that decision was made. Throwing out years of work and millions of dollars invested in an attempt to rebuild the game from the ground up in that time frame was the kiss of death.
The only question unanswered is: who had enough power to make that decision. Was it NCSoft or Richard Garriot?
I cannot think of a single game designer with that type of authority over a game unless they own the company. I can however think of several companies that have screwed over their game designers and the games they were designing. I'm not saying Garriot didn't screw up here, but this whole situation has upper management stink all over it.
Funny. The first design and videos of Tabula Rasa was what got me excited about it. I saw it as Anarchy Online 2 and went giddy with excitement. Then they decided to go all fps/mmo hybrid on it and the excitement faded a little. Still, I looked forward to it. Kinda like Planetside but with more depth. Tried beta for 1 day or something and really didn't had the big chance to see too much of it. Bought it at release, played it for almost a week, uninstalled it, shelfed it and never looked back.
Fps/mmo hybrid could've worked IF you could aim for yourself and not rely on some D&D rolling going on in the background. What we got was basically a batting contest. The one with the biggest bat won aka all EQ clones. RG only made one game that was anything to talk about, namely Ultima Online. Rest in the series is very meh and hardly worth a mention in my opinion.
He is like Will Wright, another one-shot wonder. WW made Simcity and a zillion expansion and sequels to that. He actually managed to get lucky with The Sims aswell, allthough The Sims is kinda like Simcity People edition to me. Spore on the other hand was horrible. Cute yes, but extremely shallow, simplified and boring. Kinda like TR.
He got alot of experience with games and the game industry though so to hire him as an consultant actually make alot of sense. Just don't let him get too close to the drawing board
The only question unanswered is: who had enough power to make that decision. Was it NCSoft or Richard Garriot?
You talk about "upper management stink"--well, keep in mind that his brother Robert was CEO Austin for all those years and he also had a seat on the Board of Directors in Seoul. He may still be on the board, his name has not been taken off of the NcSoft.net "board of governors" since I last looked.
Think of them as a unit, and you have your answer.
Originally posted by Daffid011 I will say this again.
No game developer on the planet could have saved Tabula Rasa after the complete design change from a sword/magic game into a psuedo first person shooter alien game. This project was doomed the moment that decision was made. Throwing out years of work and millions of dollars invested in an attempt to rebuild the game from the ground up in that time frame was the kiss of death.
The only question unanswered is: who had enough power to make that decision. Was it NCSoft or Richard Garriot?
I cannot think of a single game designer with that type of authority over a game unless they own the company. I can however think of several companies that have screwed over their game designers and the games they were designing. I'm not saying Garriot didn't screw up here, but this whole situation has upper management stink all over it.
I disagree that it was doomed from the moment they decided to change the design.
My understanding is they spent 3+ years and a bucket load of money on the original design. And at some point they realised the game wasnt going to work. Now at this point a lot of companies would push it out the door to try and re-coup their investment.
Instead they scrapped that, used a different engine and basically started over. I think T.R failed because they didnt have enough time/money to complete the game. Apart from the vision issues.
So for their money NCSoft got two failed games. The original T.R that was scrapped, and the revamped T.R that launched.
After some reading something comes to my mind, people that do nothing are generally the first to brand others as failures when themselves are the ones at fault. I may not like Garriots approach and handling in TR but fact is he gave some good titles to play and he keeps on moving, like it or not TR was a good and different offer from the other copies in the market and the man is going at it again. So all in all its profit for the industry and for the gamer comunity in generall because hopefully a good title is coming out and it will be as good or better than Ultima and i say get the man a good team and let him polish his ideias before release, its more people like him that are needed in the gaming scene.
How can you say TR was good? It could have been good but they failed to fill the game with the needed content to make it good. Its failure is proof of this. RG is not alone in blame and most likely he was not the main reason it failed, but TR is a failure as an MMO.
TR was a good game but it was misplaced in the market, the way it was it would have made a a great single player RPG, and it wasn't bad as a online game the only problem is that people at the moment only know how to play WoW and its clones and TR didn't catter to those people.
Garriott should be respected, he's earned that right.
Ok, so he's not done anything decent since Ultima Online, but it's not like that's where his career started. He's been in the gaming industry 29 years, pretty much since its inception. Garriott didn't just pioneer the 1st decent MMO, more importantly he also laid the foundations for all RPG's with Akalabeth and the Ultima series when most of us were too small to even pickup a joystick.
The guy should be extended gratitude for a lot of what he thought up, Garriott's a thinker and a designer first and foremost. Whether he can pull something else out of the hat is another question, but atleast give the guy a break in recognition for what his work and indirect influence through others work has given us.
If he wants to look after number 1, who blames him?
One things for sure, if he does reproduce a modern equivalent of what he acheived with UO, it would only be a good thing. I for one welcome him having another chance.
Comments
QFT
QFT
What does the 'T' stand for here?
Usually, QFT is used as an acronym for 'Quoted For Truth' but that definitely cannot be the case here.
Garriott did not create MMOs (I expect you think UO was the first - a common mistake, but unforgivable when Google is so readily available), and as for calling it the best one ever made, that's purely a matter of opinion.
Fair point. I never played Meridian 59 nor the very few that came before UO (excluding MUDs - I did play them). In my mind Ultima Online was the best MMORPG released and it completely boggles my mind that it's taken this many years for companies to start using it's original formula. I'm very hopeful for Darkfall Online and Mortal Online's success.
Just to clarify, since you asked: I think Garriott is responsible for an awesome, original MMORPG that many people will always view as their favourite. I didn't like Tabula Rasa either but that doesn't negate how awesome UO was. I'd be pleased to see him return to making fantasy MMORPGs since that is obviously where he has proven to be GREAT.
Worse case scenario: We get another crap game on the market - no real loss to us since we won't lose what we don't have.
Best case scenario: We get something awesome.
Where's the harm?
Thank you for saying this, darwa. UO was NOT the first MMO, and while it is similar in concept to Darkfall, and I am interested in Darkfall, I never really liked UO.
Also, TR is crap on a cracker. Angel, I can't believe for a second you work in the industry with the way you talk.
This is what Garriot seems to be. Great ideas that get poorly executed by his teams. I dread the introduction of another one. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
He won't fool me a third time. There's no saying for it!
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
ok lets clear some stuff up.
There is tons of thing you guys are assuming here.
For one RG father was an astronaught which is why RG was going in to space in the first place. His father got him interested in the space tourism industry.The payment for his ride was to help fund the space tourism industry, of which he also is invested in.
He paid out of his own pocket for the space ride to fund his own company. Basically all he did is take the money out of his bank account and put it in to his own compnay. It was a majority of his money, around 30 million.
He's been involved in the space industry for a long time. The planed flight was something that was in the works long before anyone had even thought of Tabula Rasa. I think even before he formed Destination Games.
The timing was right, and he took the oppertunity to go, and publicize it, and he did big time btw! He had booths at all the conventions having people sign up for the contest. He even produced and haded out swag for it.
NCsoft NA was his company Destination Games. He sold it to NCsoft and stayed on to finish working on his game which then just had a code name.
I think the plan has always been to just stay on long enough to finish the game. He already had stakes in another venture and industry.
He did the space flight to both promote his old venture, and his new venture.He got some publicity for the game, and his new company. He didnt have to do anything for Tabula Rasa, but he did, because NCsoft had proven that they were not behind the game.
Everything that has happened was beneficial for NCsoft. They got their north american hq, and a game development company established all in one shot. They called it a partnership, but that isn't really what it looked like to a lot of people.
There is no loss for NCsoft, so I have no idea where this speculation comes from. I think NCsoft only really wanted to establish the north amarican office. I don't think they cared to much about the game in the first place. I imagine it was kind of a bastard child/contractual obligation for the deal. So when RG left, they cut the funding.
I don't think it was a suprise to NCsoft that he left, or RG that they cut the funding. Personally I think it was very arrogant of NCsoft to do it, and it makes it obvious what there intentions were all along. They never backed the game for the start. I can only imagine if they did. It is a great game now that it is finished. No thanks to NCsoft.
I think a lot of people and companies are turned off by NCsoft because of their business practices. I'm glad Cryptic got out from under them.
I think you guys have this situation all turned around.
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sorry about your eyes I got short on time, and had to rush it.
ok lets clear some stuff up.
There is tons of thing you guys are assuming here. For one RG father was an astronaught which is why RG was going in to space in the first place. His father got him interested in the space tourism industry.The payment for his ride was to help fund the space tourism industry, of which he also is invested in. He paid out of his own pocket for the space ride to fund his own company. Basically all he did is take the money out of his bank account and put it in to his own compnay. It was a majority of his money, around 30 million. He's been involved in the space industry for a long time. IThe planed flight was something that was in the workd long before anyone had even thought of Tabula Rasa. I think even before he formed Destination Games. The timing was right, and he took the oppertunity to go, and publicize it, and they did big time btw! NCsoft had booths at all the conventions having people sign up for the contest. They even produced and haded out swag for it. NCsoft NA was his company Destination Games. He sold it to NCsoft and stayed on to finish working on his game which then just had a code name. I think the plan has always been to the just stay on long enough to finish the game. He already had stakes in another venture and industry. He did the space flight to both promote his old venture, and his new venture. He got some publicity for the game, and his new company. He didnt have to do anything for Tabula Rasa, but he did, because NCsoft had proven that they were not behind the game. Everything that has happened was beneficial for NCsoft. They got their north american hq, and a game development company established all in one shot. They called it a partnership, but that isn't really what it looked like to a lot of people. There is no loss for NCsoft, so I have no idea where this speculation comes from. I think NCsoft only really wanted to establish the north amarican office. I don't think they cared to much about the game in the first place. I imagine it was kind of a bastard child/contractual obligation for the deal. So when RG left, they cut the funding. I don't think it was a suprise to NCsoft that he left, or RG that they cut the funding. Personally I think it was very arrogant of NCsoft to do it, and it makes it obvious what there intentions were all along.
I went blind trying to read this wall of text, could someone format this and translate it to braille so that I can read it now ?
For one RG father was an astronaught which is why RG was going in to space in the first place. His father got him interested in the space tourism industry.The payment for his ride was to help fund the space tourism industry, of which he also is invested in.
You were the one saying that he was promoting TR with the space ride. I told you otherwise. I see you've come around to my way of thinking. BTW, google up "Space Adventures Enomoto" and see how other investors who want to fly in space get treated by Richard's tourism company.
I think the plan has always been to just stay on long enough to finish the game. He already had stakes in another venture and industry.
We also agree here. I don't believe he ever committed effort, talent, or his time to the company that trusted him to live up to his side of the bargain. Are you saying that's OK with you? Fine. I think he owes his investors, employees and fans a gib apology. He stayed on long enough to release the game and then flew to Russia. It was so abrupt that it probably was contracted. But you keep ignoring the fact that the Garriott brothers were a package deal for NcSoft. Both brothers signed on and took piles of money to produce a game .
There is no loss for NCsoft, so I have no idea where this speculation comes from.
That's just plain wrong, ignorant, and deluded. But so many of his fans, however many are left, are silly and blind. This was called a "financial disaster" by the CFO in Seoul, Lee. The financial statements are available online at NcSoft.net, but some literacy is required to read them. Since you are so important in the game industry, I'm sure they'd be a snap.
NcSoft gave them seven years of their corporate life, spent over a hundred million. Here's what the Garriotts gave them in return.
Why would NCSoft give someone 7 years and over 100 million dollars with little to no say in what happens. If that is the truth, which I don't believe it is, then shame on NCSoft for failing to run their own business. What company in their right mind gives a fortune to someone and lets them drag their feet for years. Beyond that the assumption that RG was solely responsible for changing the game in a manner that makes the NGE look minor is unbelievable.
I don't think Tabula Rasa is a bad game considering someone scrapped the original fantasy based design and forced a complete rewrite of the game. It is not even a decent game considering all the resources that went into it. Whoever is responsible for making that decision is where the blame for the game should lay.
I've only played one game from either Garriot, so I'm not speaking from a fans point of view. It just doesn't make sense to think that he had this much control with such a gigantic project in this company. I udnerstand just how badly TR hurt this company which makes it that much harder to believe he had that much influence.
Folks, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Or, let me rephrase that, RG didn't do anything "wrong". It's just that his style of games isn't in style anymore.
Look at Ultima. Noooo, not UO, Ultima. The single player game series. Would you buy it today? Honestly? Ok, dated graphics and all, but imagine upping the graphics to par and then... Would you?
They're basically a LOT of story, a LOT of chitchat, a LOT of "world" but little what we consider "content" these days. Players today don't look at this kind of fluff, they don't want some background story to dig through to understand what they're supposed to do, they want some easy to play game where they go forwards, where the path that leads them forwards is well marked and they want to walk that way.
UO managed to get by despite it. It was a game at that edge between two different paradigmas and foci in games. UO would fail so miserably if released today it ain't funny. Why? Because it's sandbox'y. So much fluff, so little to "do" (read: so much bread baking and generally "living" the character, so little "kill some boss" encounters).
RG is an "old school" game designer. And thus he designs games nobody wants anymore. Or rather, games that have a focus that nobody is interested in anymore. Do you want an in-depth world? Background stoyr and "moral" decisions handed to you? Character development that goes beyond "level up and get tougher, stronger, more powerful"? Or just kill the dragon and go home with the phat loot?
The problem is not that RG makes "bad" games. The problem is, nobody wants that kind of game anymore. Or, at least, not enough people to make a profit with them.
We have no idea if sandbox games would do well in todays market, because no one has released a functional sandbox game in so many years it isn't even funny.
Your comparisons of games that are 10-20 years old as if they could not possibly evolve and would flounder in todays market is a tad unfair. No designer should be held accountable for not making their games stand the test of decades. Sure the Ultima games have outdated graphics, don't slather players in instant rewards, etc. However it sure does share a lot in common with games like fallout, morrowind/elder scrolls, etc. Even guild wars plays exteremly similar to Ultimas.
I think an Ultima game would do extremely well considering some similiar style games are some of the best series in software today. That is all assuming that it was kept up to date with todays technology, etc.
It's sad that a game has to be a failure because the designer is too incompetent to change with the times.
According to the media, Richard Garriott makes bad games. Maybe a few years ago he didn't, but I have no pity for his inability to cater to the current market's demands. It was his job as a designer to see what people want and engineer a suitable experience for them. He failed.
Short-sighted people make for very poor designers, so perhaps UO was a fluke and TR shows his real colors.
That's exactly the problem...
Everyone expected a great story, Tabula Rasa had a shallow story that made little sense and the crapified end game of clan vs clan human vs human PvP made no sense at all.
Everyone expected moral decisions like Ultima, Tabula Rasa tried that but it was tacked on rather than integral to the game.
Everyone expected character development that went beyond "level up and get tougher, etc...", Tabula Rasa was pure leveling up with absolutely NOTHING to look forward to at the end of the leveling.
Tabula Rasa didn't deliver on any of the counts that you listed as "old school gaming", it was a shallow single player game that was cobbled together to try and justify the huge amount of money the producers foolishly dumped into the project.
You people are unbelievable. Just unbelievable. All you negative folks....
He's a good guy, damn good guy. What are you?
A realist.
Me? I'm a student. I love to learn from my mistakes and those of others, so I would like to know how or why TR failed, but alas, there is no such information available. Not even from Game Developer magazine, which is usually quick to pick up on failures in this industry.
So where's RG's explanation for his latest stinker? He swept it under the rug and moved on like it never happened, so we're only left to speculate what really occurred during TR's development.
RG's blogs and the information snipped from Google paint a pretty good picture about him; he's a typical businessman. Nothing more. I think the man deserves no respect for being so egotistical and selfish.
Go worship Will Wright if you want someone to praise, because when he fails public expectations (ie: SPORE) he at least does so with some dignity and talks to the community about how it could have gone better.
Clicky
You can learn from this man because he admits and explains his failures. This way, anyone and everyone can learn from his experience. This is how better games are made.
RG doesn't do this because he pretends he's flawless; he doesn't respond to inquiries about TR and there never was an official forum. I personally find this behavior to be counter-productive and highly loathable. So, from the perspective of a student of the arts, he deserves all the bashing that comes his way.
bleh, don't expect too much and you won't get let down (too much).
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
After some reading something comes to my mind, people that do nothing are generally the first to brand others as failures when themselves are the ones at fault.
I may not like Garriots approach and handling in TR but fact is he gave some good titles to play and he keeps on moving, like it or not TR was a good and different offer from the other copies in the market and the man is going at it again.
So all in all its profit for the industry and for the gamer comunity in generall because hopefully a good title is coming out and it will be as good or better than Ultima and i say get the man a good team and let him polish his ideias before release, its more people like him that are needed in the gaming scene.
How can you say TR was good? It could have been good but they failed to fill the game with the needed content to make it good. Its failure is proof of this. RG is not alone in blame and most likely he was not the main reason it failed, but TR is a failure as an MMO.
I will say this again.
No game developer on the planet could have saved Tabula Rasa after the complete design change from a sword/magic game into a psuedo first person shooter alien game. This project was doomed the moment that decision was made. Throwing out years of work and millions of dollars invested in an attempt to rebuild the game from the ground up in that time frame was the kiss of death.
The only question unanswered is: who had enough power to make that decision. Was it NCSoft or Richard Garriot?
I cannot think of a single game designer with that type of authority over a game unless they own the company. I can however think of several companies that have screwed over their game designers and the games they were designing. I'm not saying Garriot didn't screw up here, but this whole situation has upper management stink all over it.
Funny. The first design and videos of Tabula Rasa was what got me excited about it. I saw it as Anarchy Online 2 and went giddy with excitement. Then they decided to go all fps/mmo hybrid on it and the excitement faded a little. Still, I looked forward to it. Kinda like Planetside but with more depth. Tried beta for 1 day or something and really didn't had the big chance to see too much of it. Bought it at release, played it for almost a week, uninstalled it, shelfed it and never looked back.
Fps/mmo hybrid could've worked IF you could aim for yourself and not rely on some D&D rolling going on in the background. What we got was basically a batting contest. The one with the biggest bat won aka all EQ clones. RG only made one game that was anything to talk about, namely Ultima Online. Rest in the series is very meh and hardly worth a mention in my opinion.
He is like Will Wright, another one-shot wonder. WW made Simcity and a zillion expansion and sequels to that. He actually managed to get lucky with The Sims aswell, allthough The Sims is kinda like Simcity People edition to me. Spore on the other hand was horrible. Cute yes, but extremely shallow, simplified and boring. Kinda like TR.
He got alot of experience with games and the game industry though so to hire him as an consultant actually make alot of sense. Just don't let him get too close to the drawing board
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
The only question unanswered is: who had enough power to make that decision. Was it NCSoft or Richard Garriot?
You talk about "upper management stink"--well, keep in mind that his brother Robert was CEO Austin for all those years and he also had a seat on the Board of Directors in Seoul. He may still be on the board, his name has not been taken off of the NcSoft.net "board of governors" since I last looked.
Think of them as a unit, and you have your answer.
I disagree that it was doomed from the moment they decided to change the design.
My understanding is they spent 3+ years and a bucket load of money on the original design. And at some point they realised the game wasnt going to work. Now at this point a lot of companies would push it out the door to try and re-coup their investment.
Instead they scrapped that, used a different engine and basically started over. I think T.R failed because they didnt have enough time/money to complete the game. Apart from the vision issues.
So for their money NCSoft got two failed games. The original T.R that was scrapped, and the revamped T.R that launched.
Double thing sry.
How can you say TR was good? It could have been good but they failed to fill the game with the needed content to make it good. Its failure is proof of this. RG is not alone in blame and most likely he was not the main reason it failed, but TR is a failure as an MMO.
TR was a good game but it was misplaced in the market, the way it was it would have made a a great single player RPG, and it wasn't bad as a online game the only problem is that people at the moment only know how to play WoW and its clones and TR didn't catter to those people.
Garriott should be respected, he's earned that right.
Ok, so he's not done anything decent since Ultima Online, but it's not like that's where his career started. He's been in the gaming industry 29 years, pretty much since its inception. Garriott didn't just pioneer the 1st decent MMO, more importantly he also laid the foundations for all RPG's with Akalabeth and the Ultima series when most of us were too small to even pickup a joystick.
The guy should be extended gratitude for a lot of what he thought up, Garriott's a thinker and a designer first and foremost. Whether he can pull something else out of the hat is another question, but atleast give the guy a break in recognition for what his work and indirect influence through others work has given us.
If he wants to look after number 1, who blames him?
One things for sure, if he does reproduce a modern equivalent of what he acheived with UO, it would only be a good thing. I for one welcome him having another chance.