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One of the best things I read about Darkfall
Hey all,
i was browsing the web for Darkfall info and i stumbled on a well thought out post about Darkfall and the MMORPG genre, this has probably already been posted, I'm afraid I could not find it and it is worth posting once more for the people who have not read this...If you wish to flame me, please do so, but I think this deserves a(nother) post:
Darkfall is on the verge of becoming a reality. Shockwaves were sent through the MMO community on Friday as Tasos Flambouras announced that Darkfall will be releasing in European markets on January 22, 2009. This announcement was followed by the deafening silence of “vapor trolls” who were once over-spoken forum activists convinced the game would never see the light of day. Not only is Darkfall coming out, but it is only 6 weeks from going live.
Every MMO player who loves this genre even a sliver as much as I do has a vested interested in seeing Darkfall become a success. If you have been playing MMOs for any length of time, you are no doubt feeling somewhat disenchanted with the state of the genre over the last few years, especially if you are a veteran like me who remembers the way things used to be. You might remember a time where a new MMO didn’t look exactly like the one before it, a time when innovation was profitable to a developer.
The Death of Innovation
It is easy to figure out how and when innovation died. A certain company made an MMO some years ago that made unimaginable amounts of money by using a model that dumbed down the game to appeal to a wider audience. MMOs are expensive and risky business propositions, and in the last few years we have seen 40-80 million dollar debacles that have brought their developers to their knees or out of business. The safest route for profit is to look at the industries most profitable game, and build the same dumbed down model for mass appeal they used. The profit being rewarded to the companies who follow in the footsteps, combined with the innovative games being debacles, has sent a dangerous message to new developers and helped fuel a trend of linear copycat theme-park MMOs.
Sandbox games have traditionally offered their players freedom, something that most of the more recent games have been lacking and some newer-school players may have never experienced. The freedom is yours to go anywhere without being boxed in by mountains that always seem to mysteriously bottleneck into a loading screen. The freedom is yours to pick a character that is yours to shape, instead of being pigeon-holed into some specific role where for some reason can figure out how to use a single type of weapon. These are the promises that a sandbox game makes, but unfortunately there has not been a successful one made since Asheron’s Call.
Ending the Cycle
Whether you believe that Tasos will deliver what he has been promising us for years or not, before you jump on bashing bandwagon, stop and think about how a successful Darkfall will affect the MMORPG genre. If a sandbox game like Darkfall is financially successful, it will send a message to developers that not only is there a market for sandbox MMOs, but there is money to be made in innovation. Think back and imagine what this genre would look like today if Asheron’s Call and Everquest 1 had switched places in terms of who came out on top financially. If any of the sandbox games from then until now had done well, I don’t think we would find ourselves in a market full of copycat games.
When was the last time you played an MMO where the death penalty really made you fearful of dying? When was the last time you could explore in an MMO without hitting an artificial wall of mountains, or you actually were completely lost? These are the type of things that have long been gone from the genre. Now most of developers making the big name MMOs don’t even have enough innovation to make their own world. Is anyone else as sick as I am of watching these stupid prepackaged MMOs come out that are based on some old franchise? Star Wars, Dungeons and Dragons, The Matrix, Lord of the Rings, Conan, and Warhammer are all games you are supposed to be excited about, and I feel like these devs are the same guys who used to play Dungeons and Dragons and buy those little premade box adventures because they didn’t have the originality to come up with their own.
Darkfall deserves your best wishes, even if you don’t plan on buying it. It is a vessel of hope to try to stop the madness that has turned what was once the best genre in all of video gaming and reduced it to an experience that is akin to sitting on a ride in Disneyland. You get in, you sit down, you go the one way there is to go, you watch the dolls dance, then you get up and exit with probably a lower IQ than you had before you got on. If you’re on the fence about buying Darkfall, think about the money you spent on MMO ideas far worse than this one. I think it is worth the chance to finally show support for someone who is willing to take the big risk, and show other developers that we are willing to pay for something that is original.
I know some of you will flame me and try to brand me a fanboi, and I would argue that I am a fanboi of the genre and what it should represent. I also know that for a lot of you reading, Darkfall is your last stand in MMOs. I can’t blame you for going all-in on this game after all that has happened. If you have read my words here and agree with me, I ask that you make sure you tell a friend and pass the word along; we are going to need it now more than ever.
** EDIT**
Special thanks to original author Paragus1
Comments
I've been playing MMO's for 10 years, ever since UO and EQ hooked me in. But in the last 6 years, no MMO could hold a jock strap to those two legendary Icon MMO's.. Many of us hope DF will be a huge success, but personally I'm not expecting much at all.. There has been very little news and updates on the current status of the game. We dont even know what exactly will be in at release. Everything is being kept secret.. Which doesn't make any logical sense, considering the game is going to be live in 2 weeks.
Basically, we're all puzzled over the shocking early december release date announcement. Most of us, "with a brain" understands there's absolutely no way the game has had sufficient testing and is ready for release. This is why I'm not expecting much at all, BUT I will keep an eye on the reviews from other people. And if it proves to be a fun playable game, then I may check it out myself after a few weeks.
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
In this current MMO "Name Brand" over saturation of un-original content (I.e. StarWars/AoC/StarTrek/StarGate/etc...) I welcome and find it a healthy opportunity for small companies like Aventurine to attempt the bold and difficult journey of making a dream come true... and that dream is Darkfall. May Darkfall save and reinvogorate a currently stale market of un-original ideas, regurgation of mundane universes, and worthless gameplay mechanics that have flooded the market in the last 2 years alone.
May Darkfall's success set the new standard in MMO gaming
This feels like a post where I can say:
Amen brother!
Totally agree with every word here. Notably this part.
"If you have been playing MMOs for any length of time, you are no doubt feeling somewhat disenchanted with the state of the genre over the last few years, especially if you are a veteran like me who remembers the way things used to be. You might remember a time where a new MMO didn’t look exactly like the one before it, a time when innovation was profitable to a developer."
S H A D O W H A N D
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Played - All mainstream MMORPGS/Many others.
Favorites- Dark Age of Camelot/mordred,Shadowbane , Old school Ultima Online
While I agree with the sentiment, I disagree with the hyperbole. The only "deafening silence" has been from Aventurine. Tasos' last communique was on December 24th, 2008. The game is 15 days from going live in Europe and we haven't heard any specifics on price, open beta (not that it's necessary, but it was stated there would be one), how, when and where to purchase the game, etc...
Frankly, from a project management perspective (and Darkfall is a multi-million dollar development project), Tasos' last post didn't imply much confidence:
"There are no major issues to report, a couple of recent patches turned out a bit shaky but we quickly fixed that. We’re also fighting with the business end of things getting everything ready for the publishing. Support, billing, and account management are all coming together. Our server deployment is just about complete. A new website is under development and we hope it will be finished in time for the launch. "
As I said, I agree with the gist of the article, but the hyperbole is a bit much. I'm truly looking forward to Darkfall and I don't care either for the apologists or the trolls. I'm simply looking at this as pragmatically as possible,.
~Ripper
FFXI for me.
You just hit level 70, put on that brand new gear you bought two levels ago and stuck in the locker. Looking good! Go out to get some exp and fun, get a stinky group, party-wipe and now you are naked because you DE-leveled to 69 and already sold your old gear off.
That is a penalty, and I miss that kind of character responsiblity.
*sniff* for good gaming penalties..
"TO MICHAEL!"
FFXI for me.
You just hit level 70, put on that brand new gear you bought two levels ago and stuck in the locker. Looking good! Go out to get some exp and fun, get a stinky group, party-wipe and now you are naked because you DE-leveled to 69 and already sold your old gear off.
That is a penalty, and I miss that kind of character responsiblity.
*sniff* for good gaming penalties..
For me it's Hellgate London, i have 2 Lvl 50 characters in Hardcore Elite mode (you only get one life, if you die you're a permanent ghost... you die you loose your toon, your inventory for that toon, and all your money)... too bad the servers are shutting down
I am actually the one who wrote that article. You can find a lot of feedback on it here on MMORPG.com in my blog, or on MMOCrunch.com where it is mirrored. I was surprised to find that this article has been passed around to about a dozen sites from MMOSite and Massively, to some foreign sites in languages I don't understand.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. I have a thread on the Darkfall forums with comments, and somwhere on this forum.
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MMORPG.com Spotlight Blog Writer
Co-Leader of Inquisition
Youtube Channel
to you people who seem to think WoW is dying, and/or dead. Thus anything new should cater to them since they arn't playing WoW anymore.
you make me sick. There is nothing worse in this world than egoists who think the world owes them something since they started everything themselves. And how they complain incessantly about how the kids these days and their new fangled contraptions just don't "toot" their respective horns. And thus'ly the world should cater to them. They just don't get it.
When McDonalds came out with its substandard quality and fried disgusting mess the old timers first claimed it could never replace the sit down family restaurant. Then it started to become a success started to pop up everywhere. Suddenly there was fast food everywhere they went. They claimed the quality was bad there was no nutritional value. They complained their ears off.
But the world didn't listen the new generation found value in the fast easy food given their busy lives. So the new fast food industry blossomed and continues to do so today.
You can still find new family restaurants opening up with the lone old timer sitting in it to have his morning coffee and breakfast. And these same restaurants close their doors soon after opening for lack of customers.
If you have a hard time seeing the message in this story then you need to grow a pair and accept reality for what it is. Hardcore, sandbox, full loot, PvP games are simply not what the main stream player is looking for and they outnumber your assess 1000 to 1. Not saying you wont get a few title catering to you but the analogy here is not far off of reality.
The reality is restaurants do offer better food and nice atmosphere but the majority of people just don't have the time to sit down and wait for their food and eat it. Let alone in a sandbox world they even have to make it themselves. Is it better and more fun for those who have time yes. For the majority of player base who does not it is not only not fun, but annoying.
If I want to be a commercial success and tap an already flooded market the only way to get that market share is do what the others are doing. Only better. People go to theme parks to have fun once in a while. To escape from their mundane lives.
The hardcore crowd would rather live in their daily life. The majority of people don't want that you lot just need to wake up and realize your just a bunch of crotchety old men on a porch whining about the good old days.
Gom276
Prolific MMO player
Just can't say no to any mmo
He also made this interview with MMORPG.COM on December 5th.
Tasos Flambouras:
Darkfall could launch today. It's more ready for launch than most, if not all of the MMORPG titles at the same stage that I've personally sampled and it has been for quite some time. Everything has been tested internally and since November 10th we've been using an ever-growing number of external testers.
And:
The MMO community is buzzing, and then you ask why we don't have marketing. It's somewhat of an oxymoron. We've done what we could with the resources we've had available.'
This has been a time for development. We're not going to sink development resources into traditional marketing before Darkfall is out. We need to be able to support this game and the response is overwhelming as it is.
What would a traditional marketing campaign achieve? To help sell some more game boxes? This is not a single player game. When you sell an MMO you're in it for the long-haul. The best marketing for an MMO is having a great game that retains your players.
I don't like new coke, I like Classic coke.... taste better.
FFXI for me.
You just hit level 70, put on that brand new gear you bought two levels ago and stuck in the locker. Looking good! Go out to get some exp and fun, get a stinky group, party-wipe and now you are naked because you DE-leveled to 69 and already sold your old gear off.
That is a penalty, and I miss that kind of character responsiblity.
*sniff* for good gaming penalties..
For me it's Hellgate London, i have 2 Lvl 50 characters in Hardcore Elite mode (you only get one life, if you die you're a permanent ghost... you die you loose your toon, your inventory for that toon, and all your money)... too bad the servers are shutting down
Maybe hellgate is a little bit to consequent. The same is with the no consequences from EQ2. Both are to extreme. Its the middle way for me (casual player, no hardcore anymore)
Letus Darkglow
"Die Vorzüge von gestern sind oft die Fehler von morgen" Anatole France
The problem is that the 25% of the people that started the market don't want to play a game like WoW, and 70% of those people that are now playing WoW don't want to play a game like WoW, when they can just play WoW. Leaving 5% to play games like WoW.
The 25% gets over looked too much, these are the people who played UO, EQ, AC.. and the "old" mmorpgs.. and they still play these games to this day. They don't have a game that is like their old game.. until Darkfall comes out (I can't speak for UO or EQ(. A game that caters to thie 25% that WANTED freedom.
Oh.. and your fast food analogy is .. just wrong in regards to WoW being a 'fast food' game. Fact: More people play WoW then ANY OTHER GAME. They spend more time playing WoW.. then doing anything else during the week.. at least the majority do.
Fast food games, would be games like tetris.
Currently playing Real Life..
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You'll forgive us "oldtimers" if we and Adventurine disagree with your profound insight on global MMO marketing. As OP states and I happen to agree with Darkfall has a lot of potential and its certainly worthy of keeping an eye on. I guess I'm not an expert like some think but personally if the game makes it to live I'll be eager to see if it succeeds and like the OP I hope it does too.
I do not believe WoW is "dying". But WoW to me is where the MMO sheep go to enjoy their r0x0r cartoony world where everyone looks the same. Doubt it or not Adventurine believes there's a market for "full loot, sandbox, PvP games". I'll leave it to the market to decide rather than self appointed online experts.
FFXI for me.
You just hit level 70, put on that brand new gear you bought two levels ago and stuck in the locker. Looking good! Go out to get some exp and fun, get a stinky group, party-wipe and now you are naked because you DE-leveled to 69 and already sold your old gear off.
That is a penalty, and I miss that kind of character responsiblity.
*sniff* for good gaming penalties..
For me it's Hellgate London, i have 2 Lvl 50 characters in Hardcore Elite mode (you only get one life, if you die you're a permanent ghost... you die you loose your toon, your inventory for that toon, and all your money)... too bad the servers are shutting down
Maybe hellgate is a little bit to consequent. The same is with the no consequences from EQ2. Both are to extreme. Its the middle way for me (casual player, no hardcore anymore)
Letus Darkglow
heh, i killed 2 lvl 50 players in hardcore elite mode, boy where they mad... on guy said he lost 3 unique Items he forgot to mule b4 i killed him lol
You know what really is very curious and interesting about...hmmm, well let's say 99% of all posts promoting Darkfall?
It's the fact that they apparently cannot do without insulting not only other types of games, but also players who enjoy other types of games. Reading these forums, I really can't help but shake my head when DF Fans then come out of the woodwork and ask, wide-eyed and innocent, why there is so much hate against the DF community.
Read through all posts promoting DF and you will always, always find a smackdown on other games and more importantly, on the people who play other games that do not conform to the Darkfall model.
Instead of just being happy and promoting Darkfall as what it is, a return to a model of gaming systems that has long been ignored because of lack of interest in the grand scheme of things, instead of being happy about that and telling people just why they should be looking forward to DF in simple, positive words for DF, the majority of posts have to bash other games and their players.
Can the DF Fanbois please tell me why? Why do you have to overinflate your ego so much by trying to put yourselves above the rest of the gaming-community which doesn't really like your type of game but which is just indifferent to DF. Why alienate other players with your elitist attitude towards everything that is not Darkfall-like, why insult the large portion of the gaming community with your constant glorification of one gaming experience over another?
Can you please tell me that? I really do not understand it. It doesn't matter what discussion goes on, sooner or later the DF brigade will storm in and claim that only Darkfall does things right and anyone enjoying anything else has no idea about the true concept of anything. Be that PvP, be that PvE, be that Roleplaying...anything.
Any answers? Or just more of the same?
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Then I must thank you for a very well written blog, see you in Agon Mate.
Then I must thank you for a very well written blog, see you in Agon Mate.
Thanks man, I always appreciate feedback one way or the other. I'll be there when the shit hits the fan, for better or worse, I'll be there.
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MMORPG.com Spotlight Blog Writer
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Youtube Channel
While I agree with the sentiment, I disagree with the hyperbole. The only "deafening silence" has been from Aventurine. Tasos' last communique was on December 24th, 2008. The game is 15 days from going live in Europe and we haven't heard any specifics on price, open beta (not that it's necessary, but it was stated there would be one), how, when and where to purchase the game, etc...
Frankly, from a project management perspective (and Darkfall is a multi-million dollar development project), Tasos' last post didn't imply much confidence:
"There are no major issues to report, a couple of recent patches turned out a bit shaky but we quickly fixed that. We’re also fighting with the business end of things getting everything ready for the publishing. Support, billing, and account management are all coming together. Our server deployment is just about complete. A new website is under development and we hope it will be finished in time for the launch. "
As I said, I agree with the gist of the article, but the hyperbole is a bit much. I'm truly looking forward to Darkfall and I don't care either for the apologists or the trolls. I'm simply looking at this as pragmatically as possible,.
~Ripper
I have to agree with you here and add some.
The 'essay' about Darkfall's possible impact if successful is an exaggeration at best. Even if Darkfall is successful, which we all hope it is, it will have no sweeping influence on how games are developed. The reason the themepark MMOs are successful is simply because they are accessable to average gamers (i.e. the majority); sandbox MMOs are designed for the 'hardcore' who want a real stake in their game. The reason themepark MMOs became the 'norm' is simply because it has and will hold the majority appeal.
If Darkfall is as successful as, say, EVE, that would be a major event in itself considering the poor PR this game has. But I would never be blind enough to consider Darkfall ever has some sort of power to inspire a mass shift in the views of the MMO genre. Darkfall (and any other sandbox game), if successful, will always be a niche game designed for a small group of people -- the majority of gamers aren't interested in being stressed out over ganking, losing gear, etc.. I personally welcome a return to challenge (original UO player here), but I'm certainly not dellusional enough to believe any success of Darkfall will have any real impact on the genre.
not all in the DF community here are bad people, my thread trys to keep it very simple and is "Pro" DF w/out bashing other MMO's... check it out and see for yourself
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218217/page/1
Anyone who has followed DF for a decent period of time knows that Tasos and the Darkfall team dont care about mass marketing promotion. We dont need theme-park WoW kids playing this game and they wont last due to it's style; you actually have to play and the players drive the game...no hand-outs.
Well said, singsofdeath.
I doubt you will get any honest answers though.
I as well wonder where this type of attitude will lead to.
IF DarkFall does ultimately become a success... it will definitely be overcoming some very big obstacles.
It will be interesting to see if some of it's ardent supporters recognize what some of those obstacles may be, and if they will modify their tactics... or, if they choose... let the consequences be damned?
One way or the other it will make for an interesting analysis in the upcoming years.
And you're full of shit.
THE PROBLEM WITH MMOS IS THEY ARE TRYING TO DO IT BETTER THAN WOW!
We have enough WoWs! Jesus Christ Almighty! Darkfall isn't going to be a huge success like WoW, but it's still gonna be successful if it does most of what it says correctly.
I don't want to play WoW. I've played it already. Give me something different! I WANT VARIETY!
and guess what...I'm not a whiny old crotchety guy who sits on their front porch and complains about things changing.
I was brought into the genre by WoW and Runescape. So I'm that terrible WoW kiddie that everyone talks about. I'm part of the game that's "ruining" the industry, but I don't want to play WoW anymore. I want something different.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
I don't give a crap when the game releases, as long as it's playable and everything they said would be implemented is.
You guys gotta quit QQ'ing about release dates. In the mean time, go back to WoW and QQ there
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