So as a passerby what's the big deal with the card game? Because they're no physical cards? Because you cant trade free cards? Or theres no odds of knowing when you'll get a rare card? So basically its run just like tetramaster which was part of FFXI?
I must be missing the illegal part. I'm catching the bitter SOE haters part though. Everyone knows SOE is probably one of the worst current MMO owners but this just seems like people who were "hurt" by them grasping at straws.
It works exactly like a lottery but doesn't follow any state or federal regulations of a lottery. Plus it's just really cheesy...a card game with no cards lol.
Well #1 I see you manage to create fiction from what I say and #2 there is no lottory in SWG #3 continue to spew more bs and nonsense and lies about what people say and #4 go back and read #1 , #2 & #3 again until you have taken the time to read what I said instead of change it into something else along the way.
No need for me to reread anything. I'm very well aware of your position *and* your motivation.
So as a passerby what's the big deal with the card game? Because they're no physical cards? Because you cant trade free cards? Or theres no odds of knowing when you'll get a rare card? So basically its run just like tetramaster which was part of FFXI?
I must be missing the illegal part. I'm catching the bitter SOE haters part though. Everyone knows SOE is probably one of the worst current MMO owners but this just seems like people who were "hurt" by them grasping at straws.
It works exactly like a lottery but doesn't follow any state or federal regulations of a lottery. Plus it's just really cheesy...a card game with no cards lol.
But if your paying for a deck and you get a deck then its not a lottery. It would only be a lottery if you were paying for a chance to win a deck or a card. As long as they give you the product you pay for they are covered.
Also if you had to pay a membership fee and that fee was used towards a chance to win that is also illegal. Seems like SOe is just pulling the lame Tetramaster system like I pointed out earlier. It sucks, but it doesnt seem illegal.
So as a passerby what's the big deal with the card game? Because they're no physical cards? Because you cant trade free cards? Or theres no odds of knowing when you'll get a rare card? So basically its run just like tetramaster which was part of FFXI?
I must be missing the illegal part. I'm catching the bitter SOE haters part though. Everyone knows SOE is probably one of the worst current MMO owners but this just seems like people who were "hurt" by them grasping at straws.
It works exactly like a lottery but doesn't follow any state or federal regulations of a lottery. Plus it's just really cheesy...a card game with no cards lol.
But if your paying for a deck and you get a deck then its not a lottery. It would only be a lottery if you were paying for a chance to win a deck or a card. As long as they give you the product you pay for they are covered.
Also if you had to pay a membership fee and that fee was used towards a chance to win that is also illegal. Seems like SOe is just pulling the lame Tetramaster system like I pointed out earlier. It sucks, but it doesnt seem illegal.
It's just like buying a lottery ticket...when you pay for a lottery ticket you're not buying a ticket you're buying a chance to win the prize. That's what the loot "cards" are. It's especially true with the loot cards because they aren't used in the actual card game.
Even if it's not technically illegal it's a sleazy thing to do. I don't particularly like Blizzard's card game either but at least you get actual cards that you can use to play a game outside of WoW and the "prizes" are just fluff and cosmetic things that are fun but don't screw anybody over.
So as a passerby what's the big deal with the card game? Because they're no physical cards? Because you cant trade free cards? Or theres no odds of knowing when you'll get a rare card? So basically its run just like tetramaster which was part of FFXI?
I must be missing the illegal part. I'm catching the bitter SOE haters part though. Everyone knows SOE is probably one of the worst current MMO owners but this just seems like people who were "hurt" by them grasping at straws.
It works exactly like a lottery but doesn't follow any state or federal regulations of a lottery. Plus it's just really cheesy...a card game with no cards lol.
But if your paying for a deck and you get a deck then its not a lottery. It would only be a lottery if you were paying for a chance to win a deck or a card. As long as they give you the product you pay for they are covered.
Also if you had to pay a membership fee and that fee was used towards a chance to win that is also illegal. Seems like SOe is just pulling the lame Tetramaster system like I pointed out earlier. It sucks, but it doesnt seem illegal.
It's just like buying a lottery ticket...when you pay for a lottery ticket you're not buying a ticket you're buying a chance to win the prize. That's what the loot "cards" are. It's especially true with the loot cards because they aren't used in the actual card game.
Even if it's not technically illegal it's a sleazy thing to do. I don't particularly like Blizzard's card game either but at least you get actual cards that you can use to play a game outside of WoW and the "prizes" are just fluff and cosmetic things that are fun but don't screw anybody over.
That's just it. If you were paying for TCG cards and receiving TCG cards you could use the product defense. The problems with it in this case are twofold: First of all, there is no product. The buyer actually owns...nothing. Second, in the case of the loot items people are not even buying and receiving virtual cards for the card game. They are being invited to buy trading card packs for the chance of winning an SWG loot item. The items are called "cards" but they are not cards. You don't receive an actual card for your money, and the virtual item has no playability in the card game. I could sell someone a tuba and call it an SUV, but that wouldn't make it true, just because i engraved the initials S.U.V. on it.
When I buy an actual TCG card pack from the game shop (just bought some today in fact ^_^), I pay for and receive trading cards for the card game. It's just that simple. I'm not trying to win something else that may or may not be hidden in the deck, and I actually own physical playing cards. Big difference, and that's not at all what's going on in SWG.
You can say it's fine if you like, that's an ethical judgment, but saying it is like any other card game where you're simply purchasing and receiving a product is flat out wrong. It's simply not set up that way. It only looks like any other card game at first glance. That's one reason, among many, that people are calling it a scam.
P.S. I bet every time Smed screws over SWG customers, WoW gets an influx of new players. It's been going that way for years now. If you want to look at why this game's population has crashed over and over again, you don't need to look any further than they way it's managed.
So as a passerby what's the big deal with the card game? Because they're no physical cards? Because you cant trade free cards? Or theres no odds of knowing when you'll get a rare card? So basically its run just like tetramaster which was part of FFXI?
I must be missing the illegal part. I'm catching the bitter SOE haters part though. Everyone knows SOE is probably one of the worst current MMO owners but this just seems like people who were "hurt" by them grasping at straws.
It works exactly like a lottery but doesn't follow any state or federal regulations of a lottery. Plus it's just really cheesy...a card game with no cards lol.
But if your paying for a deck and you get a deck then its not a lottery. It would only be a lottery if you were paying for a chance to win a deck or a card. As long as they give you the product you pay for they are covered.
Also if you had to pay a membership fee and that fee was used towards a chance to win that is also illegal. Seems like SOe is just pulling the lame Tetramaster system like I pointed out earlier. It sucks, but it doesnt seem illegal.
It's just like buying a lottery ticket...when you pay for a lottery ticket you're not buying a ticket you're buying a chance to win the prize. That's what the loot "cards" are. It's especially true with the loot cards because they aren't used in the actual card game.
Even if it's not technically illegal it's a sleazy thing to do. I don't particularly like Blizzard's card game either but at least you get actual cards that you can use to play a game outside of WoW and the "prizes" are just fluff and cosmetic things that are fun but don't screw anybody over.
That's just it. If you were paying for TCG cards and receiving TCG cards you could use the product defense. The problems with it in this case are twofold: First of all, there is no product. The buyer actually owns...nothing. Second, in the case of the loot items people are not even buying and receiving virtual cards for the card game. They are being invited to buy trading card packs for the chance of winning an SWG loot item. The items are called "cards" but they are not cards. You don't receive an actual card for your money, and the virtual item has no playability in the card game. I could sell someone a tuba and call it an SUV, but that wouldn't make it true, just because i engraved the initials S.U.V. on it.
When I buy an actual TCG card pack from the game shop (just bought some today in fact ^_^), I pay for and receive trading cards for the card game. It's just that simple. I'm not trying to win something else that may or may not be hidden in the deck, and I actually own physical playing cards. Big difference, and that's not at all what's going on in SWG.
You can say it's fine if you like, that's an ethical judgment, but saying it is like any other card game where you're simply purchasing and receiving a product is flat out wrong. It's simply not set up that way. It only looks like any other card game at first glance. That's one reason, among many, that people are calling it a scam.
the problem with your argument archangel is that your pretty much defining mmorpg's here
eve online (not tangilbe product what so ever)
ryzom (no tangible product whatsoever )
Any game with a digitial download is giving you an intangible product however they are products and services non-the-less. I"m not sure how you can play mmorpg's accumulate wealth and items that are not owned by you and then turn around and say that a virtual TCG which this is which is essentially a massive multiplayer game in every sense of the word is somehow illegal due to lack of a tangible product?
I checked WoW's game by the way because I had thought I remembered them including loot cards for the actual game that have zero use in their TCG. By your definition they are in fact running this same lottory because they do in fact have loot cards that have zero use in the TCG etc and work on the same exact principle as SWG. The only real difference for this situation is that in the case of WOW is that they do in fact provide a tangible product for the TCG but they also run an mmorpg and I buy so many digital downloads cause the products simply are not sold in canada that I have accumulated a lot of intangible products over the years. I dont see how you can be so insistent that a game where if you actualy buy the cards and can play it outside of SWG or the same game inside SWG where they are free is somehow a scam or illegal and then compare it to WoW or not bring up other TCG's that are 100% virtual created by other companies that are actualy much older then the SWG model.
Its puzzling to say the least. I can understand how many dont like the practice heck I totaly ignore it to be honest and have for years but became intterested in finding out about it just as it was a new thing to me. I have compared a lot of them now and virtual or not I see no reason to hold this particular one up as illegal because of lack of a tangilble product. When servers get turned off for games and the most recent casualty was tabular rasa if i'm not mistaken the disks they own are completely useless (yet somehow no one feels this is a scam?) and any items. avatar, loot they acquired over that time and paid money to acquire goes poof into a black hole. How is this any different?
vitual tcgs are multipplayer games are they not? you can play in groups or one on one (that is the basic definition of a multiplayer game) Yes when the servers go dark the cards will be gone, but like anything else in the land of pixels that is a risk you take when you pay money to a company for a non tangible product which this is.
Anyhow I'm going to play some eq2 I just purchased the latest upgrade/expansion and it was a digital download and I did so in full knowledge that one day the game will be gone.
vitual tcgs are multipplayer games are they not? you can play in groups or one on one (that is the basic definition of a multiplayer game) Yes when the servers go dark the cards will be gone, but like anything else in the land of pixels that is a risk you take when you pay money to a company for a non tangible product which this is. Anyhow I'm going to play some eq2 I just purchased the latest upgrade/expansion and it was a digital download and I did so in full knowledge that one day the game will be gone.
Try and answer this honestly if you can. How many people are paying for additional cards to play the card game as opposed to just trying to get loot cards?
vitual tcgs are multipplayer games are they not? you can play in groups or one on one (that is the basic definition of a multiplayer game) Yes when the servers go dark the cards will be gone, but like anything else in the land of pixels that is a risk you take when you pay money to a company for a non tangible product which this is. Anyhow I'm going to play some eq2 I just purchased the latest upgrade/expansion and it was a digital download and I did so in full knowledge that one day the game will be gone.
Try and answer this honestly if you can. How many people are paying for additional cards to play the card game as opposed to just trying to get loot cards?
Absolutely none, but making it a "card game" is the cover to legally run an online gambling scheme. They can simply claim "people are buying the cards, the loot bonuses are just random rewards" and get around the laws. It's a sleezy attempt to milk more money out of their already unfulfilled playerbase, but do you expect anything less from SOE?
On a side note, I am very amused by all the shills in here trying to defend SOE... Simply stunning.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
vitual tcgs are multipplayer games are they not? you can play in groups or one on one (that is the basic definition of a multiplayer game) Yes when the servers go dark the cards will be gone, but like anything else in the land of pixels that is a risk you take when you pay money to a company for a non tangible product which this is. Anyhow I'm going to play some eq2 I just purchased the latest upgrade/expansion and it was a digital download and I did so in full knowledge that one day the game will be gone.
Try and answer this honestly if you can. How many people are paying for additional cards to play the card game as opposed to just trying to get loot cards?
A whole lot less then WoW seeing as we are using that as the gold standard here. They have a larger folowing and by default there are going to be a lot more people waisting money on those loot cards. Its not gambling though. The product is a pack of cards the fact that people want to just buy the cards for the prize inside is irrelevant. I used to buy cracker jacks for the toy I dont remember being told I was taking part in a lottory. I threw the cracker jacks out and played with the toy. How is this different?
Its not its just cause its sony and its swg. If your going to start attacking one company for their questionable practices it would be really nice if you didn't use another company and say they are better for implementing identical questionable practices this is the point.
So in answer to your question I have no idea, but to be fair I"m going to say a lot less then the WoW one due to basic subscriber number to start and leave it at that.
A whole lot less then WoW seeing as we are using that as the gold standard here. They have a larger folowing and by default there are going to be a lot more people waisting money on those loot cards. Its not gambling though. The product is a pack of cards the fact that people want to just buy the cards for the prize inside is irrelevant. I used to buy cracker jacks for the toy I dont remember being told I was taking part in a lottory. I threw the cracker jacks out and played with the toy. How is this different?
It's different because with both the WoW card game and cracker jacks you're talking about a physical object.
As I've said before, I don't particularly like the WoW card game either but I don't see it as being anywhere near as sleazy as the SWG card game for obvious reasons.
its not about weather you get actual cards or not that makes it illegal
you pay for eve online you GET ENTERTAINMENT for x amount of time
you pay for Ryzom you GET ENTERTAINMENT for x amount of time
you pay for WoW cards you GET fulff and CARDS
you pay for SWG's TCG you GET A CHANCE (that means you may get nothing as well) to get a virtual item that will improve your game and nothing more...
the illegal part is that this is GAMBLING (see highlighted in red). online gambling is illegal in the united states, and underage gambling is illegal everywhere.
A whole lot less then WoW seeing as we are using that as the gold standard here. They have a larger folowing and by default there are going to be a lot more people waisting money on those loot cards. Its not gambling though. The product is a pack of cards the fact that people want to just buy the cards for the prize inside is irrelevant. I used to buy cracker jacks for the toy I dont remember being told I was taking part in a lottory. I threw the cracker jacks out and played with the toy. How is this different?
It's different because with both the WoW card game and cracker jacks you're talking about a physical object.
As I've said before, I don't particularly like the WoW card game either but I don't see it as being anywhere near as sleazy as the SWG card game for obvious reasons.
I'm sorry but the loot cards in WoW for the ingame avatar enhancements are not physical objects. Its nice they give them a little card that says that they can do something with their avatar in a game that is virtual and intangible, but the fact remains that they are by this strange gambling definition gambling for a prize that they actualy will never own. As for the cracker jacks I remember trying to get cars and all i got was spinning tops. I remember once when I was very young emptying my piggy bank to my mothers anger in order to get a littel blue car. I only got a lot of spinning tops. They are all marketting gimicks and as old as the hills. The piece of paper that says I can get a piece of virtual loot in a game which where every single item is owned by blizzard is not really any better. In fact I find it just as deceptive if not more because there seem to still be a lot of people around that somehow find value in having a worthless piece of paper and to their amazement they find in the fine print the virtual object they get is not owned by them and really is only this worthess piece of paper with some strange serial number to claim the prize.
I'm actualy pretty amazed at the illogical arguments over this system. I never said I supported it, but I do get this mind boggling feeling when I see a lot of illogical statements made and propped up and validated by an equally iffy practice and one being held up as legal and the other not based on the presence of a piece of paper that for all intents and purposes will be worthless when the servers get shut off, but somehow that's okay.
Im given links to it as a "defense" against my horrible post which everyone says is only opinion, but actualy is fact with a commentary inside as well. Then I get told I dont want to talk about the game after someone said they didn't read my post cause they stopped at the first line. Then I get told I'm a shill and defending a company implementing a practice that exists in other companies and in some cases are older.
Here is the bottom line. I think for myself and I"m not a sheep, but I am by no means a "shill" or defending anything I"m simply quite amazed and astounded from time to time at the one sided arguments and this one was a humdinger. My eyes poped out of my head when I saw that wow was somehow legal and this one is not and people are like phoning some legal authorities over it and turninga blind eye to a much larger more powerful force capable of fleecing a much larger percentage of players due to sheer volume and popularity. Yet somehow its all okay in that case.
If this was about what is right and what is wrong those two card games would not be compared as
WoW (good) VS SWG (evil) , but that's not what happened and its what made me post.
As for loot cards there is no defense against stupidity and there is a lot of it in the world. Not sony or blizzard or any other company can defend or prevent stupidity from happening and people from flushing large chunks of change down the toilet for something that they will never ever own.
its not about weather you get actual cards or not that makes it illegal you pay for eve online you GET ENTERTAINMENT for x amount of time you pay for Ryzom you GET ENTERTAINMENT for x amount of time you pay for WoW cards you GET fulff and CARDS you pay for SWG's TCG you GET A CHANCE (that means you may get nothing as well) to get a virtual item that will improve your game and nothing more... the illegal part is that this is GAMBLING (see highlighted in red). online gambling is illegal in the united states, and underage gambling is illegal everywhere.
Yes and all the loot cards are useful and people aren't dumping bucket loads of money into this game. Here is what I found when I did a quick surf . I just have to say before you click this link that I think I should probably reactivate my WoW account as there is a loot card there that some guy is seling for 1,240 bucks!
Dang i'm playing the wrong game. This is a post on the official WoW TCG site and they have done a really good job of making this game into an occupation. Here I earn my money the dull way when I can be playing this lilly white game and making hundreds of dollars selling blizzards pixels to others...
I've got to say that I'm still realing at the loot card from WoW selling for 1,2k usd. So as kefkah says I'm gonna crawl back into my hole now (such a nice sit that site) with this final remark.
It appears to me that some people perceive that gambling is only exclusive to this SWG card game and that the WoW one is somehow except. So in order to meet the approval of the vets I too think sony should toss in a useless loot card that I am going to delete into every deck and every say 100 decks or whatever seems to be a valid number give me an actual loot card with "phat loot" in it so that I can stop gambling and play by WoW standards.
I ahve to say that the WoW example drove it home however it impressed upon me how much people are in fact gambling in WoW moreso then SOE and that they are in fact both "gambling". I too want the chance to pull a real loot card every whatever decks or so and delete useless filler loot cards.
So basically in order to meet the criteria of a good TCG all sony needs to do is add the garbage cards and that will make it all okay.
I get it now.. (well no really I dont) somehow as they say on that site "pulling a good loot card" and "winning a good loot card" and their referances to luck and chance are not gambling, but the fact that the spinning top card is not inside the sony decks and I have to buy 100 decks to get the "blue car" card its no longer gambling. ?
Is that it? if so I hate to say it but.. Im' speechless... beyond words and can offer no further comments or opinions over more speechlessness as people rattle their sabers over what basically is two identical games..
its not about weather you get actual cards or not that makes it illegal you pay for eve online you GET ENTERTAINMENT for x amount of time you pay for Ryzom you GET ENTERTAINMENT for x amount of time you pay for WoW cards you GET fulff and CARDS you pay for SWG's TCG you GET A CHANCE (that means you may get nothing as well) to get a virtual item that will improve your game and nothing more... the illegal part is that this is GAMBLING (see highlighted in red). online gambling is illegal in the united states, and underage gambling is illegal everywhere.
Yes and all the loot cards are useful and people aren't dumping bucket loads of money into this game. Here is what I found when I did a quick surf . I just have to say before you click this link that I think I should probably reactivate my WoW account as there is a loot card there that some guy is seling for 1,240 bucks!
Dang i'm playing the wrong game. This is a post on the official WoW TCG site and they have done a really good job of making this game into an occupation. Here I earn my money the dull way when I can be playing this lilly white game and making hundreds of dollars selling blizzards pixels to others...
your post has nothing to do with the quoted text, im not sure you even read it.
its not about weather you get actual cards or not that makes it illegal you pay for eve online you GET ENTERTAINMENT for x amount of time you pay for Ryzom you GET ENTERTAINMENT for x amount of time you pay for WoW cards you GET fulff and CARDS you pay for SWG's TCG you GET A CHANCE (that means you may get nothing as well) to get a virtual item that will improve your game and nothing more... the illegal part is that this is GAMBLING (see highlighted in red). online gambling is illegal in the united states, and underage gambling is illegal everywhere.
This exactly describes the situation. Paying for the SWG TCG doesn't get you anything really, only as you said the CHANCE to get an in game item. You get no cards. You don't even get game time, as you have to pay for THAT before you can even get in to see your "bought" pixels.
That is how the SOE TCG game differs from everyone else. EVE even has a TCG. I've never bothered with it, it has really no tie to the game at all, it's just a card game based on EVE.
Even the WOW method of giving you a relatively meangless fuff item borders on gambling, since real money is being paid for a chance at something in game. The SOE method as applied in SWG unquestionably races past the line, since it's being sold in such a way as to DELIBERATELY encourage "gambling" to get the phat loot.
its not about weather you get actual cards or not that makes it illegal you pay for eve online you GET ENTERTAINMENT for x amount of time you pay for Ryzom you GET ENTERTAINMENT for x amount of time you pay for WoW cards you GET fulff and CARDS you pay for SWG's TCG you GET A CHANCE (that means you may get nothing as well) to get a virtual item that will improve your game and nothing more... the illegal part is that this is GAMBLING (see highlighted in red). online gambling is illegal in the united states, and underage gambling is illegal everywhere.
This exactly describes the situation. Paying for the SWG TCG doesn't get you anything really, only as you said the CHANCE to get an in game item. You get no cards. You don't even get game time, as you have to pay for THAT before you can even get in to see your "bought" pixels.
That is how the SOE TCG game differs from everyone else. EVE even has a TCG. I've never bothered with it, it has really no tie to the game at all, it's just a card game based on EVE.
Even the WOW method of giving you a relatively meangless fuff item borders on gambling, since real money is being paid for a chance at something in game. The SOE method as applied in SWG unquestionably races past the line, since it's being sold in such a way as to DELIBERATELY encourage "gambling" to get the phat loot.
Yup, its a sleazy scam concocted by a Wanker who should have been fired LONG ago. It is the single reason that I cancelled my subs and left the game in total disgust and I sincerely hope that this illegal gambling fiasco will finally get John Smedley fired and turfed out into the street where he belongs.
This man is the sworn enemy of all things gaming. Im not against anyone making money but SOE (with this SCUMBAG at the helm) have systematically destroyed some of the best MMOs on the market with their endless quest for the $$$. Always at the expense of the players and always in a nefarious and underhanded manner.
Add to this the fact that there are no plans to expand SWG beyond the free (and crappy) Game Updates but there are plans to expand the TCG AGAIN. You can be guaranteed that this will come with more game altering loot that one has to gamble to obtain.
Hopefully, there will have been some intervention on the part of the powers that be before that release.
its not about weather you get actual cards or not that makes it illegal you pay for eve online you GET ENTERTAINMENT for x amount of time you pay for Ryzom you GET ENTERTAINMENT for x amount of time you pay for WoW cards you GET fulff and CARDS you pay for SWG's TCG you GET A CHANCE (that means you may get nothing as well) to get a virtual item that will improve your game and nothing more... the illegal part is that this is GAMBLING (see highlighted in red). online gambling is illegal in the united states, and underage gambling is illegal everywhere.
Yes and all the loot cards are useful and people aren't dumping bucket loads of money into this game. Here is what I found when I did a quick surf . I just have to say before you click this link that I think I should probably reactivate my WoW account as there is a loot card there that some guy is seling for 1,240 bucks!
Dang i'm playing the wrong game. This is a post on the official WoW TCG site and they have done a really good job of making this game into an occupation. Here I earn my money the dull way when I can be playing this lilly white game and making hundreds of dollars selling blizzards pixels to others...
your post has nothing to do with the quoted text, im not sure you even read it.
you seem to believe that this is not "a lottory" but the other is
here is the flaw in your "argument" that apparently there is and the war that apparently is going on here that I was not aware I was fighting
They get "a chance at a real loot card" while drawing most of the time worthless loot cards that they simply delete or never use because they are pure garbage in the WoW one
The SWG guys get a chance at a decent loot card while not drawing worthless cards that they will delete
The difference is this and its easily mended by the fact that sony can just put in a bunch of junk loot cards and the games are in fact identical . If sony put in I dunno a "lump of coal" loot card that no one wants into every pack then they to will get "a chance at drawing a real loot card' while drawing most of the time worthless loot cards that they simply delete
So somehow if it is in fact illegal to leave out the worthless cards and somehow in this illogical situation its suddenly NOT a gambling lottory I'll eat my hat. Also the name calling no mmofringe about my sudden reapperance is pretty priceless. I do say that it appears I seem to scare an aweful lot of people by speaking my mind and presenting my so called stupid "arguments" and posts. I would say I make a lot more sense then people give me credit for or they would not be rubbernecking over the fact I had something to say. They would have completely ignored this thread (not derailed it into a wow comparison and just left it for what it was and then it would not be 5 pages long or given me the opportunity to see just how illogical some people are being over this)
Bottom line in WoW you get a chance to draw a real loot card while most of the time drawing worthless loot cards in SWG you simply get a chance at drawing real loot cards. So if sony where to be approached the fix for this so called problem is so insanely easy it makes my head spin. They simply have to insert worthless loot cards that are drawn 99% of the time that no one is gonna want them. People will still buy the packages for the actual loot which will be listed as usual (barns, speeders whatever they come up with) and totally ignore the worthless cards as they delete them from the entire mess. Somehow this makes it okay? That's fine. My point is if you define the sony one as gambling then you have to define the WoW one as gambling because they are in fact identical systems in every way shape and form.
Yet they call me the illogical crazy one. I addressed your point in spades in the second post below that one I guess you didnt' read it. Not my fault. I dont really considert hem games of chance as buying card game add on for loot is pretty stupid and a huge waste of money. I likened it to my cracker jacks box venture, but everyone is ignoring that where there is advertised or was "a prize in every box" but there were only good prizes that anyone wanted in a few boxes.
I do knowt his much though it appears I scare people a lot or they would not flock to threads about this stuff and spinoff threads on the crazy ummax would not suddenly appear in minutes if not seconds. I'm hot news and I think possibly instead of being insulted by all this attention I should probably be flattered that I manage to make people think so much and work so hard in this fictitious war I am apparently fighting.
So thanks for that I suppose
I'm off now to do something of consequence that matters as we ordered new flooring for the house and are about to gut the entire first floor and pull down a wall and open up a rather enclosed area. You will forgive me (but likely call it running away) as I stop posting in the issue cause more important things in life call lol.
Target Audience. Too bad there were 250,000 of us, but not millions of them. For SOE that is.
Actually there are millions of millions of the "target audience" out there. It's just that only the top .1% of the top .1% can figure out how to install the client for their dream MMO.
its not about weather you get actual cards or not that makes it illegal you pay for eve online you GET ENTERTAINMENT for x amount of time you pay for Ryzom you GET ENTERTAINMENT for x amount of time you pay for WoW cards you GET fulff and CARDS you pay for SWG's TCG you GET A CHANCE (that means you may get nothing as well) to get a virtual item that will improve your game and nothing more... the illegal part is that this is GAMBLING (see highlighted in red). online gambling is illegal in the united states, and underage gambling is illegal everywhere.
This exactly describes the situation. Paying for the SWG TCG doesn't get you anything really, only as you said the CHANCE to get an in game item. You get no cards. You don't even get game time, as you have to pay for THAT before you can even get in to see your "bought" pixels.
That is how the SOE TCG game differs from everyone else. EVE even has a TCG. I've never bothered with it, it has really no tie to the game at all, it's just a card game based on EVE.
Even the WOW method of giving you a relatively meangless fuff item borders on gambling, since real money is being paid for a chance at something in game. The SOE method as applied in SWG unquestionably races past the line, since it's being sold in such a way as to DELIBERATELY encourage "gambling" to get the phat loot.
Yup, its a sleazy scam concocted by a Wanker who should have been fired LONG ago. It is the single reason that I cancelled my subs and left the game in total disgust and I sincerely hope that this illegal gambling fiasco will finally get John Smedley fired and turfed out into the street where he belongs.
This man is the sworn enemy of all things gaming. Im not against anyone making money but SOE (with this SCUMBAG at the helm) have systematically destroyed some of the best MMOs on the market with their endless quest for the $$$. Always at the expense of the players and always in a nefarious and underhanded manner.
Add to this the fact that there are no plans to expand SWG beyond the free (and crappy) Game Updates but there are plans to expand the TCG AGAIN. You can be guaranteed that this will come with more game altering loot that one has to gamble to obtain.
Hopefully, there will have been some intervention on the part of the powers that be before that release.
"Wanker" lol. I sense another citizen of Her Majesty's Commonwealth I think . Damn I love that word. It just says so much, so succinctly.
You just summed up the exact reason that I and probably over 100 thousand other people quit playing SOE games.
I've also said that I'd gladly go back (as would probably over a hundred thousand other gamers) if they got new leadership and dumped their philosophy of scams and gimmicks, and replaced it with one that put quality and customer service at the top of their priorities.
Until then, no thanks, and I don't care what IP's they're offering. I'd rather not play my favourite story, than play it done poorly and be treated like crap.
its not about weather you get actual cards or not that makes it illegal you pay for eve online you GET ENTERTAINMENT for x amount of time you pay for Ryzom you GET ENTERTAINMENT for x amount of time you pay for WoW cards you GET fulff and CARDS you pay for SWG's TCG you GET A CHANCE (that means you may get nothing as well) to get a virtual item that will improve your game and nothing more... the illegal part is that this is GAMBLING (see highlighted in red). online gambling is illegal in the united states, and underage gambling is illegal everywhere.
This exactly describes the situation. Paying for the SWG TCG doesn't get you anything really, only as you said the CHANCE to get an in game item. You get no cards. You don't even get game time, as you have to pay for THAT before you can even get in to see your "bought" pixels.
That is how the SOE TCG game differs from everyone else. EVE even has a TCG. I've never bothered with it, it has really no tie to the game at all, it's just a card game based on EVE.
Even the WOW method of giving you a relatively meangless fuff item borders on gambling, since real money is being paid for a chance at something in game. The SOE method as applied in SWG unquestionably races past the line, since it's being sold in such a way as to DELIBERATELY encourage "gambling" to get the phat loot.
Yup, its a sleazy scam concocted by a Wanker who should have been fired LONG ago. It is the single reason that I cancelled my subs and left the game in total disgust and I sincerely hope that this illegal gambling fiasco will finally get John Smedley fired and turfed out into the street where he belongs.
This man is the sworn enemy of all things gaming. Im not against anyone making money but SOE (with this SCUMBAG at the helm) have systematically destroyed some of the best MMOs on the market with their endless quest for the $$$. Always at the expense of the players and always in a nefarious and underhanded manner.
Add to this the fact that there are no plans to expand SWG beyond the free (and crappy) Game Updates but there are plans to expand the TCG AGAIN. You can be guaranteed that this will come with more game altering loot that one has to gamble to obtain.
Hopefully, there will have been some intervention on the part of the powers that be before that release.
"Wanker" lol. I sense another citizen of Her Majesty's Commonwealth I think . Damn I love that word. It just says so much, so succinctly.
You just summed up the exact reason that I and probably over 100 thousand other people quit playing SOE games.
I've also said that I'd gladly go back (as would probably over a hundred thousand other gamers) if they got new leadership and dumped their philosophy of scams and gimmicks, and replaced it with one that put quality and customer service at the top of their priorities.
Until then, no thanks, and I don't care what IP's they're offering. I'd rather not play my favourite story, than play it done poorly and be treated like crap.
I might let them treat me like crap again for an everquest 3 that does justice to the original (and only) everquest. For all of SOE failures...they're still gonna come out on top because of everquest 3. Smed will get his million subs, and SOE will return to grace. At least thats what should happen...with ease. But when you add in ps3, microtrans, the casual mmo trend, soe rep, not being able to get the absolute best desingers in the industry which everquest 3 should easily attract...who knows. soe is in a very unique position with this title due to its history alone...they could make the game of the decade again. And ill throw out all my standing up to SOE bullshit to play it. I guess my addictions come first We'll see though.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
ummax...the WoW "loot" cards actually have a function in the TCG. Also you can "loot" the cards within the game.
I'm still hung up on the fact that the SWG card game doesn't have actual cards.
It however does not bother you to have a character in a game with all the items you collected over possibly years and then have the game shut down like any number of games have. Then you have nothing.
Comments
It works exactly like a lottery but doesn't follow any state or federal regulations of a lottery. Plus it's just really cheesy...a card game with no cards lol.
No need for me to reread anything. I'm very well aware of your position *and* your motivation.
It works exactly like a lottery but doesn't follow any state or federal regulations of a lottery. Plus it's just really cheesy...a card game with no cards lol.
But if your paying for a deck and you get a deck then its not a lottery. It would only be a lottery if you were paying for a chance to win a deck or a card. As long as they give you the product you pay for they are covered.
Also if you had to pay a membership fee and that fee was used towards a chance to win that is also illegal. Seems like SOe is just pulling the lame Tetramaster system like I pointed out earlier. It sucks, but it doesnt seem illegal.
It works exactly like a lottery but doesn't follow any state or federal regulations of a lottery. Plus it's just really cheesy...a card game with no cards lol.
But if your paying for a deck and you get a deck then its not a lottery. It would only be a lottery if you were paying for a chance to win a deck or a card. As long as they give you the product you pay for they are covered.
Also if you had to pay a membership fee and that fee was used towards a chance to win that is also illegal. Seems like SOe is just pulling the lame Tetramaster system like I pointed out earlier. It sucks, but it doesnt seem illegal.
It's just like buying a lottery ticket...when you pay for a lottery ticket you're not buying a ticket you're buying a chance to win the prize. That's what the loot "cards" are. It's especially true with the loot cards because they aren't used in the actual card game.
Even if it's not technically illegal it's a sleazy thing to do. I don't particularly like Blizzard's card game either but at least you get actual cards that you can use to play a game outside of WoW and the "prizes" are just fluff and cosmetic things that are fun but don't screw anybody over.
It works exactly like a lottery but doesn't follow any state or federal regulations of a lottery. Plus it's just really cheesy...a card game with no cards lol.
But if your paying for a deck and you get a deck then its not a lottery. It would only be a lottery if you were paying for a chance to win a deck or a card. As long as they give you the product you pay for they are covered.
Also if you had to pay a membership fee and that fee was used towards a chance to win that is also illegal. Seems like SOe is just pulling the lame Tetramaster system like I pointed out earlier. It sucks, but it doesnt seem illegal.
It's just like buying a lottery ticket...when you pay for a lottery ticket you're not buying a ticket you're buying a chance to win the prize. That's what the loot "cards" are. It's especially true with the loot cards because they aren't used in the actual card game.
Even if it's not technically illegal it's a sleazy thing to do. I don't particularly like Blizzard's card game either but at least you get actual cards that you can use to play a game outside of WoW and the "prizes" are just fluff and cosmetic things that are fun but don't screw anybody over.
That's just it. If you were paying for TCG cards and receiving TCG cards you could use the product defense. The problems with it in this case are twofold: First of all, there is no product. The buyer actually owns...nothing. Second, in the case of the loot items people are not even buying and receiving virtual cards for the card game. They are being invited to buy trading card packs for the chance of winning an SWG loot item. The items are called "cards" but they are not cards. You don't receive an actual card for your money, and the virtual item has no playability in the card game. I could sell someone a tuba and call it an SUV, but that wouldn't make it true, just because i engraved the initials S.U.V. on it.
When I buy an actual TCG card pack from the game shop (just bought some today in fact ^_^), I pay for and receive trading cards for the card game. It's just that simple. I'm not trying to win something else that may or may not be hidden in the deck, and I actually own physical playing cards. Big difference, and that's not at all what's going on in SWG.
You can say it's fine if you like, that's an ethical judgment, but saying it is like any other card game where you're simply purchasing and receiving a product is flat out wrong. It's simply not set up that way. It only looks like any other card game at first glance. That's one reason, among many, that people are calling it a scam.
P.S. I bet every time Smed screws over SWG customers, WoW gets an influx of new players. It's been going that way for years now. If you want to look at why this game's population has crashed over and over again, you don't need to look any further than they way it's managed.
It works exactly like a lottery but doesn't follow any state or federal regulations of a lottery. Plus it's just really cheesy...a card game with no cards lol.
But if your paying for a deck and you get a deck then its not a lottery. It would only be a lottery if you were paying for a chance to win a deck or a card. As long as they give you the product you pay for they are covered.
Also if you had to pay a membership fee and that fee was used towards a chance to win that is also illegal. Seems like SOe is just pulling the lame Tetramaster system like I pointed out earlier. It sucks, but it doesnt seem illegal.
It's just like buying a lottery ticket...when you pay for a lottery ticket you're not buying a ticket you're buying a chance to win the prize. That's what the loot "cards" are. It's especially true with the loot cards because they aren't used in the actual card game.
Even if it's not technically illegal it's a sleazy thing to do. I don't particularly like Blizzard's card game either but at least you get actual cards that you can use to play a game outside of WoW and the "prizes" are just fluff and cosmetic things that are fun but don't screw anybody over.
That's just it. If you were paying for TCG cards and receiving TCG cards you could use the product defense. The problems with it in this case are twofold: First of all, there is no product. The buyer actually owns...nothing. Second, in the case of the loot items people are not even buying and receiving virtual cards for the card game. They are being invited to buy trading card packs for the chance of winning an SWG loot item. The items are called "cards" but they are not cards. You don't receive an actual card for your money, and the virtual item has no playability in the card game. I could sell someone a tuba and call it an SUV, but that wouldn't make it true, just because i engraved the initials S.U.V. on it.
When I buy an actual TCG card pack from the game shop (just bought some today in fact ^_^), I pay for and receive trading cards for the card game. It's just that simple. I'm not trying to win something else that may or may not be hidden in the deck, and I actually own physical playing cards. Big difference, and that's not at all what's going on in SWG.
You can say it's fine if you like, that's an ethical judgment, but saying it is like any other card game where you're simply purchasing and receiving a product is flat out wrong. It's simply not set up that way. It only looks like any other card game at first glance. That's one reason, among many, that people are calling it a scam.
the problem with your argument archangel is that your pretty much defining mmorpg's here
eve online (not tangilbe product what so ever)
ryzom (no tangible product whatsoever )
Any game with a digitial download is giving you an intangible product however they are products and services non-the-less. I"m not sure how you can play mmorpg's accumulate wealth and items that are not owned by you and then turn around and say that a virtual TCG which this is which is essentially a massive multiplayer game in every sense of the word is somehow illegal due to lack of a tangible product?
I checked WoW's game by the way because I had thought I remembered them including loot cards for the actual game that have zero use in their TCG. By your definition they are in fact running this same lottory because they do in fact have loot cards that have zero use in the TCG etc and work on the same exact principle as SWG. The only real difference for this situation is that in the case of WOW is that they do in fact provide a tangible product for the TCG but they also run an mmorpg and I buy so many digital downloads cause the products simply are not sold in canada that I have accumulated a lot of intangible products over the years. I dont see how you can be so insistent that a game where if you actualy buy the cards and can play it outside of SWG or the same game inside SWG where they are free is somehow a scam or illegal and then compare it to WoW or not bring up other TCG's that are 100% virtual created by other companies that are actualy much older then the SWG model.
Its puzzling to say the least. I can understand how many dont like the practice heck I totaly ignore it to be honest and have for years but became intterested in finding out about it just as it was a new thing to me. I have compared a lot of them now and virtual or not I see no reason to hold this particular one up as illegal because of lack of a tangilble product. When servers get turned off for games and the most recent casualty was tabular rasa if i'm not mistaken the disks they own are completely useless (yet somehow no one feels this is a scam?) and any items. avatar, loot they acquired over that time and paid money to acquire goes poof into a black hole. How is this any different?
vitual tcgs are multipplayer games are they not? you can play in groups or one on one (that is the basic definition of a multiplayer game) Yes when the servers go dark the cards will be gone, but like anything else in the land of pixels that is a risk you take when you pay money to a company for a non tangible product which this is.
Anyhow I'm going to play some eq2 I just purchased the latest upgrade/expansion and it was a digital download and I did so in full knowledge that one day the game will be gone.
Try and answer this honestly if you can. How many people are paying for additional cards to play the card game as opposed to just trying to get loot cards?
Try and answer this honestly if you can. How many people are paying for additional cards to play the card game as opposed to just trying to get loot cards?
Absolutely none, but making it a "card game" is the cover to legally run an online gambling scheme. They can simply claim "people are buying the cards, the loot bonuses are just random rewards" and get around the laws. It's a sleezy attempt to milk more money out of their already unfulfilled playerbase, but do you expect anything less from SOE?
On a side note, I am very amused by all the shills in here trying to defend SOE... Simply stunning.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Try and answer this honestly if you can. How many people are paying for additional cards to play the card game as opposed to just trying to get loot cards?
A whole lot less then WoW seeing as we are using that as the gold standard here. They have a larger folowing and by default there are going to be a lot more people waisting money on those loot cards. Its not gambling though. The product is a pack of cards the fact that people want to just buy the cards for the prize inside is irrelevant. I used to buy cracker jacks for the toy I dont remember being told I was taking part in a lottory. I threw the cracker jacks out and played with the toy. How is this different?
Its not its just cause its sony and its swg. If your going to start attacking one company for their questionable practices it would be really nice if you didn't use another company and say they are better for implementing identical questionable practices this is the point.
So in answer to your question I have no idea, but to be fair I"m going to say a lot less then the WoW one due to basic subscriber number to start and leave it at that.
It's different because with both the WoW card game and cracker jacks you're talking about a physical object.
As I've said before, I don't particularly like the WoW card game either but I don't see it as being anywhere near as sleazy as the SWG card game for obvious reasons.
its not about weather you get actual cards or not that makes it illegal
you pay for eve online you GET ENTERTAINMENT for x amount of time
you pay for Ryzom you GET ENTERTAINMENT for x amount of time
you pay for WoW cards you GET fulff and CARDS
you pay for SWG's TCG you GET A CHANCE (that means you may get nothing as well) to get a virtual item that will improve your game and nothing more...
the illegal part is that this is GAMBLING (see highlighted in red). online gambling is illegal in the united states, and underage gambling is illegal everywhere.
It's different because with both the WoW card game and cracker jacks you're talking about a physical object.
As I've said before, I don't particularly like the WoW card game either but I don't see it as being anywhere near as sleazy as the SWG card game for obvious reasons.
I'm sorry but the loot cards in WoW for the ingame avatar enhancements are not physical objects. Its nice they give them a little card that says that they can do something with their avatar in a game that is virtual and intangible, but the fact remains that they are by this strange gambling definition gambling for a prize that they actualy will never own. As for the cracker jacks I remember trying to get cars and all i got was spinning tops. I remember once when I was very young emptying my piggy bank to my mothers anger in order to get a littel blue car. I only got a lot of spinning tops. They are all marketting gimicks and as old as the hills. The piece of paper that says I can get a piece of virtual loot in a game which where every single item is owned by blizzard is not really any better. In fact I find it just as deceptive if not more because there seem to still be a lot of people around that somehow find value in having a worthless piece of paper and to their amazement they find in the fine print the virtual object they get is not owned by them and really is only this worthess piece of paper with some strange serial number to claim the prize.
I'm actualy pretty amazed at the illogical arguments over this system. I never said I supported it, but I do get this mind boggling feeling when I see a lot of illogical statements made and propped up and validated by an equally iffy practice and one being held up as legal and the other not based on the presence of a piece of paper that for all intents and purposes will be worthless when the servers get shut off, but somehow that's okay.
Im given links to it as a "defense" against my horrible post which everyone says is only opinion, but actualy is fact with a commentary inside as well. Then I get told I dont want to talk about the game after someone said they didn't read my post cause they stopped at the first line. Then I get told I'm a shill and defending a company implementing a practice that exists in other companies and in some cases are older.
Here is the bottom line. I think for myself and I"m not a sheep, but I am by no means a "shill" or defending anything I"m simply quite amazed and astounded from time to time at the one sided arguments and this one was a humdinger. My eyes poped out of my head when I saw that wow was somehow legal and this one is not and people are like phoning some legal authorities over it and turninga blind eye to a much larger more powerful force capable of fleecing a much larger percentage of players due to sheer volume and popularity. Yet somehow its all okay in that case.
If this was about what is right and what is wrong those two card games would not be compared as
WoW (good) VS SWG (evil) , but that's not what happened and its what made me post.
As for loot cards there is no defense against stupidity and there is a lot of it in the world. Not sony or blizzard or any other company can defend or prevent stupidity from happening and people from flushing large chunks of change down the toilet for something that they will never ever own.
Yes and all the loot cards are useful and people aren't dumping bucket loads of money into this game. Here is what I found when I did a quick surf . I just have to say before you click this link that I think I should probably reactivate my WoW account as there is a loot card there that some guy is seling for 1,240 bucks!
http://www.b2-gaming.com/store/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=10
Dang i'm playing the wrong game. This is a post on the official WoW TCG site and they have done a really good job of making this game into an occupation. Here I earn my money the dull way when I can be playing this lilly white game and making hundreds of dollars selling blizzards pixels to others...
I've got to say that I'm still realing at the loot card from WoW selling for 1,2k usd. So as kefkah says I'm gonna crawl back into my hole now (such a nice sit that site) with this final remark.
It appears to me that some people perceive that gambling is only exclusive to this SWG card game and that the WoW one is somehow except. So in order to meet the approval of the vets I too think sony should toss in a useless loot card that I am going to delete into every deck and every say 100 decks or whatever seems to be a valid number give me an actual loot card with "phat loot" in it so that I can stop gambling and play by WoW standards.
I ahve to say that the WoW example drove it home however it impressed upon me how much people are in fact gambling in WoW moreso then SOE and that they are in fact both "gambling". I too want the chance to pull a real loot card every whatever decks or so and delete useless filler loot cards.
So basically in order to meet the criteria of a good TCG all sony needs to do is add the garbage cards and that will make it all okay.
I get it now.. (well no really I dont) somehow as they say on that site "pulling a good loot card" and "winning a good loot card" and their referances to luck and chance are not gambling, but the fact that the spinning top card is not inside the sony decks and I have to buy 100 decks to get the "blue car" card its no longer gambling. ?
Is that it? if so I hate to say it but.. Im' speechless... beyond words and can offer no further comments or opinions over more speechlessness as people rattle their sabers over what basically is two identical games..
I'm in aww at this point I truly am
Yes and all the loot cards are useful and people aren't dumping bucket loads of money into this game. Here is what I found when I did a quick surf . I just have to say before you click this link that I think I should probably reactivate my WoW account as there is a loot card there that some guy is seling for 1,240 bucks!
http://www.b2-gaming.com/store/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=10
Dang i'm playing the wrong game. This is a post on the official WoW TCG site and they have done a really good job of making this game into an occupation. Here I earn my money the dull way when I can be playing this lilly white game and making hundreds of dollars selling blizzards pixels to others...
your post has nothing to do with the quoted text, im not sure you even read it.
and to humor you
Black Lotus (Magic: The Gathering) 1999,95$
whats your point?
This exactly describes the situation. Paying for the SWG TCG doesn't get you anything really, only as you said the CHANCE to get an in game item. You get no cards. You don't even get game time, as you have to pay for THAT before you can even get in to see your "bought" pixels.
That is how the SOE TCG game differs from everyone else. EVE even has a TCG. I've never bothered with it, it has really no tie to the game at all, it's just a card game based on EVE.
Even the WOW method of giving you a relatively meangless fuff item borders on gambling, since real money is being paid for a chance at something in game. The SOE method as applied in SWG unquestionably races past the line, since it's being sold in such a way as to DELIBERATELY encourage "gambling" to get the phat loot.
This exactly describes the situation. Paying for the SWG TCG doesn't get you anything really, only as you said the CHANCE to get an in game item. You get no cards. You don't even get game time, as you have to pay for THAT before you can even get in to see your "bought" pixels.
That is how the SOE TCG game differs from everyone else. EVE even has a TCG. I've never bothered with it, it has really no tie to the game at all, it's just a card game based on EVE.
Even the WOW method of giving you a relatively meangless fuff item borders on gambling, since real money is being paid for a chance at something in game. The SOE method as applied in SWG unquestionably races past the line, since it's being sold in such a way as to DELIBERATELY encourage "gambling" to get the phat loot.
Yup, its a sleazy scam concocted by a Wanker who should have been fired LONG ago. It is the single reason that I cancelled my subs and left the game in total disgust and I sincerely hope that this illegal gambling fiasco will finally get John Smedley fired and turfed out into the street where he belongs.
This man is the sworn enemy of all things gaming. Im not against anyone making money but SOE (with this SCUMBAG at the helm) have systematically destroyed some of the best MMOs on the market with their endless quest for the $$$. Always at the expense of the players and always in a nefarious and underhanded manner.
Add to this the fact that there are no plans to expand SWG beyond the free (and crappy) Game Updates but there are plans to expand the TCG AGAIN. You can be guaranteed that this will come with more game altering loot that one has to gamble to obtain.
Hopefully, there will have been some intervention on the part of the powers that be before that release.
Yes and all the loot cards are useful and people aren't dumping bucket loads of money into this game. Here is what I found when I did a quick surf . I just have to say before you click this link that I think I should probably reactivate my WoW account as there is a loot card there that some guy is seling for 1,240 bucks!
http://www.b2-gaming.com/store/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=10
Dang i'm playing the wrong game. This is a post on the official WoW TCG site and they have done a really good job of making this game into an occupation. Here I earn my money the dull way when I can be playing this lilly white game and making hundreds of dollars selling blizzards pixels to others...
your post has nothing to do with the quoted text, im not sure you even read it.
and to humor you
Black Lotus (Magic: The Gathering) 1999,95$
whats your point?
you seem to believe that this is not "a lottory" but the other is
here is the flaw in your "argument" that apparently there is and the war that apparently is going on here that I was not aware I was fighting
They get "a chance at a real loot card" while drawing most of the time worthless loot cards that they simply delete or never use because they are pure garbage in the WoW one
The SWG guys get a chance at a decent loot card while not drawing worthless cards that they will delete
The difference is this and its easily mended by the fact that sony can just put in a bunch of junk loot cards and the games are in fact identical . If sony put in I dunno a "lump of coal" loot card that no one wants into every pack then they to will get "a chance at drawing a real loot card' while drawing most of the time worthless loot cards that they simply delete
So somehow if it is in fact illegal to leave out the worthless cards and somehow in this illogical situation its suddenly NOT a gambling lottory I'll eat my hat. Also the name calling no mmofringe about my sudden reapperance is pretty priceless. I do say that it appears I seem to scare an aweful lot of people by speaking my mind and presenting my so called stupid "arguments" and posts. I would say I make a lot more sense then people give me credit for or they would not be rubbernecking over the fact I had something to say. They would have completely ignored this thread (not derailed it into a wow comparison and just left it for what it was and then it would not be 5 pages long or given me the opportunity to see just how illogical some people are being over this)
Bottom line in WoW you get a chance to draw a real loot card while most of the time drawing worthless loot cards in SWG you simply get a chance at drawing real loot cards. So if sony where to be approached the fix for this so called problem is so insanely easy it makes my head spin. They simply have to insert worthless loot cards that are drawn 99% of the time that no one is gonna want them. People will still buy the packages for the actual loot which will be listed as usual (barns, speeders whatever they come up with) and totally ignore the worthless cards as they delete them from the entire mess. Somehow this makes it okay? That's fine. My point is if you define the sony one as gambling then you have to define the WoW one as gambling because they are in fact identical systems in every way shape and form.
Yet they call me the illogical crazy one. I addressed your point in spades in the second post below that one I guess you didnt' read it. Not my fault. I dont really considert hem games of chance as buying card game add on for loot is pretty stupid and a huge waste of money. I likened it to my cracker jacks box venture, but everyone is ignoring that where there is advertised or was "a prize in every box" but there were only good prizes that anyone wanted in a few boxes.
I do knowt his much though it appears I scare people a lot or they would not flock to threads about this stuff and spinoff threads on the crazy ummax would not suddenly appear in minutes if not seconds. I'm hot news and I think possibly instead of being insulted by all this attention I should probably be flattered that I manage to make people think so much and work so hard in this fictitious war I am apparently fighting.
So thanks for that I suppose
I'm off now to do something of consequence that matters as we ordered new flooring for the house and are about to gut the entire first floor and pull down a wall and open up a rather enclosed area. You will forgive me (but likely call it running away) as I stop posting in the issue cause more important things in life call lol.
All I can say are two words:
Target Audience. Too bad there were 250,000 of us, but not millions of them. For SOE that is.
Actually there are millions of millions of the "target audience" out there. It's just that only the top .1% of the top .1% can figure out how to install the client for their dream MMO.
This exactly describes the situation. Paying for the SWG TCG doesn't get you anything really, only as you said the CHANCE to get an in game item. You get no cards. You don't even get game time, as you have to pay for THAT before you can even get in to see your "bought" pixels.
That is how the SOE TCG game differs from everyone else. EVE even has a TCG. I've never bothered with it, it has really no tie to the game at all, it's just a card game based on EVE.
Even the WOW method of giving you a relatively meangless fuff item borders on gambling, since real money is being paid for a chance at something in game. The SOE method as applied in SWG unquestionably races past the line, since it's being sold in such a way as to DELIBERATELY encourage "gambling" to get the phat loot.
Yup, its a sleazy scam concocted by a Wanker who should have been fired LONG ago. It is the single reason that I cancelled my subs and left the game in total disgust and I sincerely hope that this illegal gambling fiasco will finally get John Smedley fired and turfed out into the street where he belongs.
This man is the sworn enemy of all things gaming. Im not against anyone making money but SOE (with this SCUMBAG at the helm) have systematically destroyed some of the best MMOs on the market with their endless quest for the $$$. Always at the expense of the players and always in a nefarious and underhanded manner.
Add to this the fact that there are no plans to expand SWG beyond the free (and crappy) Game Updates but there are plans to expand the TCG AGAIN. You can be guaranteed that this will come with more game altering loot that one has to gamble to obtain.
Hopefully, there will have been some intervention on the part of the powers that be before that release.
"Wanker" lol. I sense another citizen of Her Majesty's Commonwealth I think
. Damn I love that word. It just says so much, so succinctly.
You just summed up the exact reason that I and probably over 100 thousand other people quit playing SOE games.
I've also said that I'd gladly go back (as would probably over a hundred thousand other gamers) if they got new leadership and dumped their philosophy of scams and gimmicks, and replaced it with one that put quality and customer service at the top of their priorities.
Until then, no thanks, and I don't care what IP's they're offering. I'd rather not play my favourite story, than play it done poorly and be treated like crap.
This exactly describes the situation. Paying for the SWG TCG doesn't get you anything really, only as you said the CHANCE to get an in game item. You get no cards. You don't even get game time, as you have to pay for THAT before you can even get in to see your "bought" pixels.
That is how the SOE TCG game differs from everyone else. EVE even has a TCG. I've never bothered with it, it has really no tie to the game at all, it's just a card game based on EVE.
Even the WOW method of giving you a relatively meangless fuff item borders on gambling, since real money is being paid for a chance at something in game. The SOE method as applied in SWG unquestionably races past the line, since it's being sold in such a way as to DELIBERATELY encourage "gambling" to get the phat loot.
Yup, its a sleazy scam concocted by a Wanker who should have been fired LONG ago. It is the single reason that I cancelled my subs and left the game in total disgust and I sincerely hope that this illegal gambling fiasco will finally get John Smedley fired and turfed out into the street where he belongs.
This man is the sworn enemy of all things gaming. Im not against anyone making money but SOE (with this SCUMBAG at the helm) have systematically destroyed some of the best MMOs on the market with their endless quest for the $$$. Always at the expense of the players and always in a nefarious and underhanded manner.
Add to this the fact that there are no plans to expand SWG beyond the free (and crappy) Game Updates but there are plans to expand the TCG AGAIN. You can be guaranteed that this will come with more game altering loot that one has to gamble to obtain.
Hopefully, there will have been some intervention on the part of the powers that be before that release.
"Wanker" lol. I sense another citizen of Her Majesty's Commonwealth I think
. Damn I love that word. It just says so much, so succinctly.
You just summed up the exact reason that I and probably over 100 thousand other people quit playing SOE games.
I've also said that I'd gladly go back (as would probably over a hundred thousand other gamers) if they got new leadership and dumped their philosophy of scams and gimmicks, and replaced it with one that put quality and customer service at the top of their priorities.
Until then, no thanks, and I don't care what IP's they're offering. I'd rather not play my favourite story, than play it done poorly and be treated like crap.
I might let them treat me like crap again for an everquest 3 that does justice to the original (and only) everquest. For all of SOE failures...they're still gonna come out on top because of everquest 3. Smed will get his million subs, and SOE will return to grace. At least thats what should happen...with ease. But when you add in ps3, microtrans, the casual mmo trend, soe rep, not being able to get the absolute best desingers in the industry which everquest 3 should easily attract...who knows. soe is in a very unique position with this title due to its history alone...they could make the game of the decade again. And ill throw out all my standing up to SOE bullshit to play it. I guess my addictions come first
We'll see though.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
ummax...the WoW "loot" cards actually have a function in the TCG. Also you can "loot" the cards within the game.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
I'm still hung up on the fact that the SWG card game doesn't have actual cards.
I'm still hung up on the fact that the SWG card game doesn't have actual cards.
PT Barnum said it best and I will let you fill in the blank....
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
I'm still hung up on the fact that the SWG card game doesn't have actual cards.
It however does not bother you to have a character in a game with all the items you collected over possibly years and then have the game shut down like any number of games have. Then you have nothing.