Originally posted by Knoxay I think too much stock is being put into the launch of games. MMO's are all about long term. When I cancelled my CoH subscription because I got tired of the ultra repetitive missions and lack of non-combat activities, I wasn't thinking about it's smooth launch.
But if you'd been unable to complete missions or what have you, would you have stuck around long enough to get bored by their repetetiveness?
I think, in the case of MMOGs, that more stock needs to be put into launch. If you plan on getting people to stay long term, you need to have things working from the get go. Not spewing vague promises of "We're looking into it'. As a paying customer, I don't want excuses, I want results. And I sure as hell don't see why I should pay for 6 months to beta test their code to get to where it should have been from the beginning, if it can even get that far.
The fact that MMOGs evolve and change over time is no excuse for sloppy work, whether at launch, 6 months out, or whenever.
Originally posted by Coldmeat hasn't stopped them in the past.
As borked as things are, all the people bitching about it on the beta forums... most say they will still buy the game. Which is why companies can get away with pumping out incomplete shitte in a box. Because gamers, no matter how much bitching and moaning they do, still pay to play it. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
do you realize how LONG it would take to make a mmorpg perfect? literally years of beta testing, and unless you start a company that can afford to do this, maybe bugs should be a little more acceptable to all of us.
I honestly don't care to much about bugs cuz I know for a fact they will fix most of them within six months of gold. and I would much much rather play the game for that six months than have them do beta for another six months.
heres a little pole just to see who agrees with me...
HAHAHA fix most of them within 6 months? Sony lol don't make me laugh, Star Wars Galaxies is still a bug ridden poorly balanced piece of crud and they delayed fixing it to make money on an expansion because people would've left because of the lack of high end content. EQ2 is gonna be the same, SOE felt threatened by certain other MMOs launching and decided to bump the release date to an earlier time. Wonder why there was no open beta hmmm? and I can guarantee you that there is gonna a massive problem with server stability and login/account creation the first week or so just like EQ1 and SWG because they had no stress test.
And about MMOs taking years to be perfect, Dark Age was fairly close to having a perfect launch, yes there were bugs but they were minor and were fixed quickly and so was the balance, overall it's had the smoothest launch of all, SOE has just well stunk at launches.
"Sony Customer Service is like Santa Clause, people say they've seen them but they don't really exist"
"Sony Customer Service is like Santa Clause, people say they've seen them but they don't really exist"
Originally posted by siven SOE fuking sucks why buy another game from them. EQ2 will suck just like all the rest of there game's why you people wait for the damn game is crazy.
Now that's some deep thinking there. Very imaginative name in your user info, by the way.
My biggest concern about the launch date is the talents and traits that were just added. I don't feel they have tested them properly. I have not ever seen a mob or PC fall through the world as you claim to have seen Coldmeat, although I admit I have not seen one tenth of the world so I will not say it is definitely not happening. However if it is, no one on the beta boards has mentioned it. I have not had a CTD in the last 3 or 4 days (about 10 or 13 hours of time in game) where as it was CTD'ing on me every 2 or 3 hours of play last week. The only 2 bugs that I have experienced since the patch is that I have to click on the camp button twice to logout and when I move a skill icon from one bar to another a dupe clone attach itself to my cursor and I have to shake it off by clicking anywhere on the screen.
I would like to see the new stuff tested more. I would like to see artisan quests in place. I would like to see better maps and a better waypoint system. I would like to see them push launch day back to at least the 15th.
Registering the first day will most likely be a nightmare. Will it be a CoH smooth launch? I doubt it. I envision registration nightmares as 200K or so try and log on at the same time. However I will be persistent and eventually get logged on and registered. Will it be a AO or SB launch? No f'ing way. Right now the game and servers are stable and playable. There is a ton of content, but on the other hand there will never be enough Are there too few character slots? Yeah I want 8 damnit. Will I play the game as long as I did DAoC? I don't know at this point, time will tell. Is it a waste of 50 bucks? no way, I can get a minimum of 50 hours worth of good solid gaming out of the game, I will probably get >500 so it is a bargain entertainment wise for me, even counting SOE's inevitable expansions.
I don't see what the problem is. The bugs that Coldmeat are so minor its not even funny how people are complaining about them. The only semi-bug from that list would be the NPC falling. And I'm sure they will fix those within a reasonable time. The way I see it, the beta community wanted changes. Ooo my character is not unique, this is bad, that's bad. So they try to work it out. Then more complaining. Ooo you fixed our problem. But now we wanna test those fixes. WTF. You wanted unique they gave you unique and ALOT more. There will always be complainers. I've figured that out. SOE knows it too. They can't satisfy every babys' cry. The game is definately playable. If you don't agree you obviously don't have to pay. And yes I am pumped about this game. Ever since I heard about EQ2 I couldn't wait to get my hands on it. Now don't think for a second that I'm a brain dead fanboi. If this game blows I'll drop it like a bad habit. Even brain dead fanbois won't play it if its not FUN for them. SOE knows this. They had EQ for 5+ years. They know what is needed for a large community. You don't think Smedley knows that if they release EQ2 like SWG it will fail. This game has 10 freakin' CD's. Don't think for a second this game won't have bugs. Even real bugs. What's that you arn't gonna play at release? Ok I'll have my jump start on my leveling
LOL and Jack wants to see the game pushed back for the most idiotic reasons?! I mean I understand testing the new traits and added stuff but thats more HIGH end than low end. So they have weeks from now until the majority reaches those higher level traits. New maps and waypoints?! Ahahahaha please... What other minor complaints are there. Bring em. Bring me your flames. Earlier release was the most economical strategy ever. Obviously it was a smart move whether you like it or not. And frankly those hard workin devs need to get paid NOW. And 9 out of 10 I will enjoy playing EQ2 even with these minor bugs. So I'm gonna keep payin for my small $15 for a month of fun.
Originally posted by Namja LOL and Jack wants to see the game pushed back for the most idiotic reasons?! I mean I understand testing the new traits and added stuff but thats more HIGH end than low end.
Quite frankly I don't see testing the new content as a 'idiotic' reason. A week or two is not that big of a deal. There are a few other things that could stand improvemnt also. That darn quest log drove me nuts trying to keep 40 or 50 quests straight so I resorted to making up a Excel worksheet so I can do everything in a area while I am there. I bet 99% of the testers think that the quest log is a pain.
I would like to see the Artisan quests added, and the bug which may boot ya if you open a merchant inside your apartment. I am pretyy sure that will be fixed before release, and the quests added.
I do agree that the bugs are so minor that they are only slightly irritating. I have yet to see anything or anyone do the old DAoC trick of falling into Camelot, no matter what Coldmeat says.
No game will never be perfect but I don't think a extra week or so of beta would hurt. And yes I have pre ordered and will take a vacation day the day after release. Best damn MMO I have ever played and I have played most of them except the Asian ones since M59 was released.
Originally posted by Rhoklaw However, they still have 8-9 days to work out their problems. As someone stated before me, EQ2 has probably gone gold before they even did the last patch. More then likely, you'll install EQ2 and patch to the final game version that the beta is running the day before release. So we can't make a complete launch judgement until we see what the game is running like about a week from now.
I agree, I think this will most likely be the case. That the cds and dvds are already being made or were made before the new character traits were added. So when players buy and install and patch they will most likely be playing the game in the state it will be on the last day of beta. So until we know what the game will be like on the day before it goes live or on the last day of beta I think it will be kinda hard to say if it will be okay or not.
These are just like the threads between beta testers and others about the game coming out way to early for SWG. Not saying this will be as bad as SWG (hehe may be, I can't see the future) but it will have some issues all over that many will compare it to it. Even with some last minute major patches before release. Well, I'll hand it to SOE, at least they are consistent with their development habits.
1 minor bug=ok
5 million minor bugs=annoyance
If any of those bugs mess up a quest you were working on, or you can't finish it, you will be ticked off. I don't care who you are, but if you been spending a few hours of your time and it FUBAR's on you, you will be mad to some degree.
Most people forgave SWG for its bugs at release, but what was the death nail was SOE's inability to fix them timely, or cause new bugs in the process. Combine that with questionable, if any, endgame content, and it ended up being a disaster. EQ 2 may avoid this, but we'll see. The only saving grace for EQ 2 may be its endgame and that it is complete enough. However if it is not, I forsee very similiar issues with this game that you saw in SWG, though not as bad I believe. Unfortunately, SWG didn't have any direct competition to compare at the time. EQ 2 does. WoW will be out, and even if you hate it, will be compared to the game, and if things don't go smoothly, I predict lots of "whining" threads about how the other game has all this, even from people who won't play for a variety of reasons. And of course the reverse holds true if WoW has issues.
Still on the same token, from the board it doesn't seem like WoW will be prefect either, also its being released later then EQ2. So if EQ2 has problems and manages to get things better around the time WoW comes out. If people are still enjoying EQ2 and are happy things are being fixed I doubt they would go to WoW simply cause it launched with less problems. That is if you compare the two but in the end that's really based on assuming that WoW would be any better on its release. There is a chance that it might not be better or could be worse in its own ways that are different from EQ2's problems, when it comes to its launch. AO he its own problems, DAoC's problems were different from EQ1's as they all had to be different in some ways from Ultima Online's launch or Shadowbane's launch. Not to mention while EQ2 and WoW are similar, they are are different games that do different things in different ways. So while one thing might be annoying in EQ2 due to a bug it could be worse in WoW to a peson simply because how its presented or setup. So you might have a person willing to put up with a bug simply cause they don't like how its done elsewhere even though it works correctly. Just a thought that came to me.
Never said they would go to WoW, said they'd compare it. WoW has issues, but nothing like EQ 2's. WoW has some unfinished content, which was just finished for the open beta, but is fairly bug free. One annoying one was an animation that would freeze on casting certain spells, so you had glowing hands constantly. Supposedly been fixed for next patch. I have guild members who are playing both, and some like EQ 2(a few may buy it), but comparing the two bugwise isn't close. If you played the stress test and the beta in WoW for the long run, it has been very stable save a few short instances.
When WoW hits OB next week with the new client (yeah they required all of us to get a new client, we can't patch the old one. A lot of us don't know why but they changed something), we'll see how stable WoW will be and such. Then you will have some bigger comparison threads popping up, especially if the EQ 2 staff hasn't fixed some issues by mid next week when people can geniuely compare some aspects of each game.
hi, looks like the great and noble (snicker snicker) will release another bug 905 done game if that complete. why shouldnt they. we as a gaming community go and buy the junk and then complain about it. i bet if the loaf of bread you were buying was 909% do you wouldnt touch it. i for one wont buy EQ2 as soon as it hits the stands, why should i waste money to get upset and p***ed off over a game. ill just sit back let the diehard fans buy it and complain and rant and rave and ill save my money till its in better shape then it is now. ive been playing games since D&D PNP, ive bought a lot of bad released games and get so upset that 3 to 6 months after release the problems Beta testers complained about are still on the back burner while they are working on releasing an expanision for more money. WE need as a community to start not accepting what they give up but demand the loaf of bread be cooked fully, or the game made as best it can, yes there will be lag and some things broke, but that isnt what im talking about. its the major bugs and flaws that they refuse to work on and fix in a timely manner. All SOE is doing is rushing thru so as to release before other companies do and try and make a big profit and fan base so ppl wont leave when other games do come out. BAD BAD BAD on you SOE. and yes i dislike SOE, have since SWG as im still waiting for email reply to my email that i sent to then 2 weeks after game was released. SOE, only worried about money, not players, game, they have no customer service at all, and when you do get any answer from them it comes as a form letter which has nothing to do with the Question you asked them. umm sorry for the rants just MHO.
Quit sweating guys and girls. The Inn room bug is the only big nasty one left that I am aware of. It just surfaced after last weeks patch and I would bet it will be fixed by Monday. I was in SWG beta also and it was in much much much worse shape than EQII is, and the Devs here have amazed me at the speed in which they have fixed stuff even in the short time I have been in beta. If was not for the SOE splash screeen when loading I would forget who the Devs are, compared to their previous stuff.
Most stuff is very very minor and I have yet to find a bugged quest. Servers are stable, class balance still needs tweaking. I would not cancel my pre order over any of the minor stuff. I had more problems with DAoC 2 years after release than I have had with this game in the last week. The only bug I really noticed last game session was I had to click logout twice to camp, oh the pain I suffered from that. And yes I stil maintain the game neeeds at least another coupel of weeks of testing for tweaking the classes.
Again I think the comparisons to SWG are unfair. SWG is just a flawed game by design. Poor balance of risk vs. reward. 95% of "dungeons" are just caves that were identicle to every other cave in the game full of spawns with no loot. Combat boils down to spamming your most powerful attack until the mob drops. The skill based "uber template" system made it impossible to balance for PvP, on top of this people can just drop their skills to make room for the new flavor of the month. The game isn't bad because of it's bugs. SWG was a bad game with bugs, EQ2 is a good game with bugs.
EQ2 is hardly unplayable. From a bug stand point it's better now than SWG was months after release. A lot of the negativity about EQ2's bugginess feeds from post patch bugs. I don't think these types of bugs will be nearly as bad in live as they are in beta. Patches will most likely go through a test server first, then after everything is running well on test they'll push it to live.
I repeat!!! What bugs?!?!?! You can't just say it has quest bugs!!! Which quest?! Hmm I bet you can't name 2 quest bugs. Even if that. Send it to the devs!!! They will fix it!!! The devs have responded to the community in a matter of days. Sorry they can't read everyones post in an hour like you would like and fix it in the same hour.
Comments
But if you'd been unable to complete missions or what have you, would you have stuck around long enough to get bored by their repetetiveness?
I think, in the case of MMOGs, that more stock needs to be put into launch. If you plan on getting people to stay long term, you need to have things working from the get go. Not spewing vague promises of "We're looking into it'. As a paying customer, I don't want excuses, I want results. And I sure as hell don't see why I should pay for 6 months to beta test their code to get to where it should have been from the beginning, if it can even get that far.
The fact that MMOGs evolve and change over time is no excuse for sloppy work, whether at launch, 6 months out, or whenever.
do you realize how LONG it would take to make a mmorpg perfect? literally years of beta testing, and unless you start a company that can afford to do this, maybe bugs should be a little more acceptable to all of us.
I honestly don't care to much about bugs cuz I know for a fact they will fix most of them within six months of gold. and I would much much rather play the game for that six months than have them do beta for another six months.
heres a little pole just to see who agrees with me...
HAHAHA fix most of them within 6 months? Sony lol don't make me laugh, Star Wars Galaxies is still a bug ridden poorly balanced piece of crud and they delayed fixing it to make money on an expansion because people would've left because of the lack of high end content. EQ2 is gonna be the same, SOE felt threatened by certain other MMOs launching and decided to bump the release date to an earlier time. Wonder why there was no open beta hmmm? and I can guarantee you that there is gonna a massive problem with server stability and login/account creation the first week or so just like EQ1 and SWG because they had no stress test.
And about MMOs taking years to be perfect, Dark Age was fairly close to having a perfect launch, yes there were bugs but they were minor and were fixed quickly and so was the balance, overall it's had the smoothest launch of all, SOE has just well stunk at launches.
"Sony Customer Service is like Santa Clause, people say they've seen them but they don't really exist"
"Sony Customer Service is like Santa Clause, people say they've seen them but they don't really exist"
Now that's some deep thinking there. Very imaginative name in your user info, by the way.
My biggest concern about the launch date is the talents and traits that were just added. I don't feel they have tested them properly. I have not ever seen a mob or PC fall through the world as you claim to have seen Coldmeat, although I admit I have not seen one tenth of the world so I will not say it is definitely not happening. However if it is, no one on the beta boards has mentioned it. I have not had a CTD in the last 3 or 4 days (about 10 or 13 hours of time in game) where as it was CTD'ing on me every 2 or 3 hours of play last week. The only 2 bugs that I have experienced since the patch is that I have to click on the camp button twice to logout and when I move a skill icon from one bar to another a dupe clone attach itself to my cursor and I have to shake it off by clicking anywhere on the screen.
I would like to see the new stuff tested more. I would like to see artisan quests in place. I would like to see better maps and a better waypoint system. I would like to see them push launch day back to at least the 15th.
Registering the first day will most likely be a nightmare. Will it be a CoH smooth launch? I doubt it. I envision registration nightmares as 200K or so try and log on at the same time. However I will be persistent and eventually get logged on and registered. Will it be a AO or SB launch? No f'ing way. Right now the game and servers are stable and playable. There is a ton of content, but on the other hand there will never be enough
Are there too few character slots? Yeah I want 8 damnit. Will I play the game as long as I did DAoC? I don't know at this point, time will tell. Is it a waste of 50 bucks? no way, I can get a minimum of 50 hours worth of good solid gaming out of the game, I will probably get >500 so it is a bargain entertainment wise for me, even counting SOE's inevitable expansions.
I miss DAoC
I don't see what the problem is. The bugs that Coldmeat are so minor its not even funny how people are complaining about them. The only semi-bug from that list would be the NPC falling. And I'm sure they will fix those within a reasonable time. The way I see it, the beta community wanted changes. Ooo my character is not unique, this is bad, that's bad. So they try to work it out. Then more complaining. Ooo you fixed our problem. But now we wanna test those fixes. WTF. You wanted unique they gave you unique and ALOT more. There will always be complainers. I've figured that out. SOE knows it too. They can't satisfy every babys' cry. The game is definately playable. If you don't agree you obviously don't have to pay. And yes I am pumped about this game. Ever since I heard about EQ2 I couldn't wait to get my hands on it. Now don't think for a second that I'm a brain dead fanboi. If this game blows I'll drop it like a bad habit. Even brain dead fanbois won't play it if its not FUN for them. SOE knows this. They had EQ for 5+ years. They know what is needed for a large community. You don't think Smedley knows that if they release EQ2 like SWG it will fail. This game has 10 freakin' CD's. Don't think for a second this game won't have bugs. Even real bugs. What's that you arn't gonna play at release? Ok I'll have my jump start on my leveling
LOL and Jack wants to see the game pushed back for the most idiotic reasons?! I mean I understand testing the new traits and added stuff but thats more HIGH end than low end. So they have weeks from now until the majority reaches those higher level traits. New maps and waypoints?! Ahahahaha please... What other minor complaints are there. Bring em. Bring me your flames. Earlier release was the most economical strategy ever. Obviously it was a smart move whether you like it or not. And frankly those hard workin devs need to get paid NOW. And 9 out of 10 I will enjoy playing EQ2 even with these minor bugs. So I'm gonna keep payin for my small $15 for a month of fun.
Quite frankly I don't see testing the new content as a 'idiotic' reason. A week or two is not that big of a deal. There are a few other things that could stand improvemnt also. That darn quest log drove me nuts trying to keep 40 or 50 quests straight so I resorted to making up a Excel worksheet so I can do everything in a area while I am there. I bet 99% of the testers think that the quest log is a pain.
I would like to see the Artisan quests added, and the bug which may boot ya if you open a merchant inside your apartment. I am pretyy sure that will be fixed before release, and the quests added.
I do agree that the bugs are so minor that they are only slightly irritating. I have yet to see anything or anyone do the old DAoC trick of falling into Camelot, no matter what Coldmeat says.
No game will never be perfect but I don't think a extra week or so of beta would hurt. And yes I have pre ordered and will take a vacation day the day after release. Best damn MMO I have ever played and I have played most of them except the Asian ones since M59 was released.
I miss DAoC
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EQ2 Qeynos Guild- http://www.imperium-arcanum.com
Whoa...deja vu....
These are just like the threads between beta testers and others about the game coming out way to early for SWG. Not saying this will be as bad as SWG (hehe may be, I can't see the future) but it will have some issues all over that many will compare it to it. Even with some last minute major patches before release. Well, I'll hand it to SOE, at least they are consistent with their development habits.
1 minor bug=ok
5 million minor bugs=annoyance
If any of those bugs mess up a quest you were working on, or you can't finish it, you will be ticked off. I don't care who you are, but if you been spending a few hours of your time and it FUBAR's on you, you will be mad to some degree.
Most people forgave SWG for its bugs at release, but what was the death nail was SOE's inability to fix them timely, or cause new bugs in the process. Combine that with questionable, if any, endgame content, and it ended up being a disaster. EQ 2 may avoid this, but we'll see. The only saving grace for EQ 2 may be its endgame and that it is complete enough. However if it is not, I forsee very similiar issues with this game that you saw in SWG, though not as bad I believe. Unfortunately, SWG didn't have any direct competition to compare at the time. EQ 2 does. WoW will be out, and even if you hate it, will be compared to the game, and if things don't go smoothly, I predict lots of "whining" threads about how the other game has all this, even from people who won't play for a variety of reasons. And of course the reverse holds true if WoW has issues.
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EQ2 Qeynos Guild- http://www.imperium-arcanum.com
Never said they would go to WoW
, said they'd compare it. WoW has issues, but nothing like EQ 2's. WoW has some unfinished content, which was just finished for the open beta, but is fairly bug free. One annoying one was an animation that would freeze on casting certain spells, so you had glowing hands constantly. Supposedly been fixed for next patch. I have guild members who are playing both, and some like EQ 2(a few may buy it), but comparing the two bugwise isn't close. If you played the stress test and the beta in WoW for the long run, it has been very stable save a few short instances.
When WoW hits OB next week with the new client (yeah they required all of us to get a new client, we can't patch the old one. A lot of us don't know why but they changed something), we'll see how stable WoW will be and such. Then you will have some bigger comparison threads popping up, especially if the EQ 2 staff hasn't fixed some issues by mid next week when people can geniuely compare some aspects of each game.
hi, looks like the great and noble (snicker snicker) will release another bug 905 done game if that complete. why shouldnt they. we as a gaming community go and buy the junk and then complain about it. i bet if the loaf of bread you were buying was 909% do you wouldnt touch it. i for one wont buy EQ2 as soon as it hits the stands, why should i waste money to get upset and p***ed off over a game. ill just sit back let the diehard fans buy it and complain and rant and rave and ill save my money till its in better shape then it is now. ive been playing games since D&D PNP, ive bought a lot of bad released games and get so upset that 3 to 6 months after release the problems Beta testers complained about are still on the back burner while they are working on releasing an expanision for more money. WE need as a community to start not accepting what they give up but demand the loaf of bread be cooked fully, or the game made as best it can, yes there will be lag and some things broke, but that isnt what im talking about. its the major bugs and flaws that they refuse to work on and fix in a timely manner. All SOE is doing is rushing thru so as to release before other companies do and try and make a big profit and fan base so ppl wont leave when other games do come out. BAD BAD BAD on you SOE. and yes i dislike SOE, have since SWG as im still waiting for email reply to my email that i sent to then 2 weeks after game was released. SOE, only worried about money, not players, game, they have no customer service at all, and when you do get any answer from them it comes as a form letter which has nothing to do with the Question you asked them. umm sorry for the rants just MHO.
Quit sweating guys and girls. The Inn room bug is the only big nasty one left that I am aware of. It just surfaced after last weeks patch and I would bet it will be fixed by Monday. I was in SWG beta also and it was in much much much worse shape than EQII is, and the Devs here have amazed me at the speed in which they have fixed stuff even in the short time I have been in beta. If was not for the SOE splash screeen when loading I would forget who the Devs are, compared to their previous stuff.
Most stuff is very very minor and I have yet to find a bugged quest. Servers are stable, class balance still needs tweaking. I would not cancel my pre order over any of the minor stuff. I had more problems with DAoC 2 years after release than I have had with this game in the last week. The only bug I really noticed last game session was I had to click logout twice to camp, oh the pain I suffered from that. And yes I stil maintain the game neeeds at least another coupel of weeks of testing for tweaking the classes.
I miss DAoC
Again I think the comparisons to SWG are unfair. SWG is just a flawed game by design. Poor balance of risk vs. reward. 95% of "dungeons" are just caves that were identicle to every other cave in the game full of spawns with no loot. Combat boils down to spamming your most powerful attack until the mob drops. The skill based "uber template" system made it impossible to balance for PvP, on top of this people can just drop their skills to make room for the new flavor of the month. The game isn't bad because of it's bugs. SWG was a bad game with bugs, EQ2 is a good game with bugs.
EQ2 is hardly unplayable. From a bug stand point it's better now than SWG was months after release. A lot of the negativity about EQ2's bugginess feeds from post patch bugs. I don't think these types of bugs will be nearly as bad in live as they are in beta. Patches will most likely go through a test server first, then after everything is running well on test they'll push it to live.
I repeat!!! What bugs?!?!?! You can't just say it has quest bugs!!! Which quest?! Hmm I bet you can't name 2 quest bugs. Even if that. Send it to the devs!!! They will fix it!!! The devs have responded to the community in a matter of days. Sorry they can't read everyones post in an hour like you would like and fix it in the same hour.