SWG Pre-CU was a great Sandbox game but like Bandits in the night those dogs at SOE first changed the game with the CU ( Which I previewed at the Celebrations 3 SWG breakfast - Man , peeps were pissed).
Then those Skin Flints created an abomination we have come to know and love as the New game Edition without consulting or considering the player customer who they were trying to please. You can not blame over 200k customers leaving in a huff.
As I mention to Bagdersmacker , I applaud those that withstand such disconcern but no one should slight the Vets in their desire to have a game that is similar to a game removed without recourse.
if you do a quick google search using certain words you can quite easily find an almost carbon copy of the game being made. We arent allowed to discuss it here though.
Why would you not be allowed to discuss an MMO on and MMO site?
Answer quoted from MMORPG.com staff:
"MMORPG.com does not allow the discussion of free servers or emulation servers; this includes any emulators or free servers for SWG or SWG pre-CU. I understand that some users feel that these topics are allowed by SOE, but until and unless SOE releases an official statement regarding these projects we are not allowing emu discussions on our boards. For any questions, please contact community@MMORPG.com."
SWG Pre-CU was a great Sandbox game but like Bandits in the night those dogs at SOE first changed the game with the CU ( Which I previewed at the Celebrations 3 SWG breakfast - Man , peeps were pissed). Then those Skin Flints created an abomination we have come to know and love as the New game Edition without consulting or considering the player customer who they were trying to please. You can not blame over 200k customers leaving in a huff. As I mention to Bagdersmacker , I applaud those that withstand such disconcern but no one should slight the Vets in their desire to have a game that is similar to a game removed without recourse.
Its wierd how people who played EQ1 think it was great and seem to never realized it had a terrible reputation of being extremely nerdy, uncool, and that it sucked yout life away.
Same thing with SWG you get all these people who loved the game and completely forget it had a terrible reputation for being extremely grindy and boring.
Blizzard would never have made SWG with Blizard like polish. The Blizzard Polish process would result in game much less boring and therefore disliked by the people who loved SWG.
So your assertion is that Blizzard Polish doesn't just add good content, fix bugs, and stream line the game mechanics, but that it polishes away the fun from the game? Interesting.
But it would only polish away the fun for the "nerds" and the general public would love the game?
Only for the immersion/sandbox nerds. Not every kind of nerd.
The "normal" person aka the general public just aren't that picky about such things. They HATE inconvience, as far as immersion they just want it to be plausible.
The reverse is true of an immersion nerd. They HATE immersion inconsistency but will go through what other people consider torturous to get whatever they consider immersion.
All you need to do is look at the stereotypical Star Trek nerd who constantly questions William Shatner about some script inconsistency in episode 23 at some Star Trek Convention.
In the end it is really just about numbers and who is in the majority and to some extent ereveryone is nerdy about something. But that stereotypical Star Trek nerd is the person that gets made fun off because they have a peculiar (ie. outside the norm) obsession with a certain thing being "correct" and disregard the currently in place norms of letting things slide for the sake of social "grease".
Many of the things immersion nerds want are directly opposed to what other "normal" people will consider fun. Even worse, since they are nerds and tend to be obesessive, controling, and lack social grace. They therefore attempt to force the entire system to revolve around their desires and lack any kind of will to compromise. In fact at the hint of compromise they go into a Rainman like fit. This puts "normal" people off. The games associated with these people are considered strange and undesirable like they have a disease.
Not that the other way around is really any better. But the reason I am framing it this way is to communicate the derision that many people feel for these games. These are social games. They obey social rules. Worrying about "correctness" = "not being cool".
The reason WoW has succeeded is only partially about quality. It is more about the fact that they minmized the pain in the ass portions of EQ combined with a fairly bug free experience. That is the part where "the general public" dislikes inconvience. But they also made the game cool and fun and all that. That is more than just "having things to do", it is also not getting all crazy about things. About being cool. This might sound juvenile, but this is really the way all social phenomenon play out. I am not talking about marketing. I am talking about not doing ridiculously punishing things for some stupid made up concept ideal like "Risk vs Reward" or "Immersion".
The general public may seem stupid. They may even justify themselves in ways that are patently stupid. But they are not as stupid as they seem. As an atomic sort of "hive-mind" the "General public" has an extremely sensitive nose for when things are getting out of hand. And when things do get out of hand the response is derision. Because the "general public" wants things to move smoothly and towards social comrpomise and when something as burdensome and subjective as immersion comes in and gets rigorouslyand arbitrarily enforced they get pissed and puke you out. And when that happens they get pissed and do various political-style things to marginlize that thing.
The point being that both SWG and EQ had elements that were just out of hand, over the deep end for most normal people. There are a number of people who like those games and look back with nostalgia and completely gloss over all the negative things that they themselves even complained about.
The hologrind was insane and sucked ass. To people who played SWG it was a burden to be born, or something bitch about or just some other thing to do. To people on the outside it is literally alarming, they say to themselve "Oh my, I don't want to be caught dead associating with that kind of insane crap. That is just plain sick". As soon outsiders are judging those sorts of game mechanics as "sick" there is a major problem. This is differentiated from the sick individuals seen in any MMORPG who play to much. It is when the game itself is viewed this way that it gets socially derided.
Both SWG and EQ had this stigma. And they had it for a reason. And most of those are rooted in these "nerdy" narrowly focused things. I purposely used "nerdy" for a reason. I didn't even use geek. I specifically mean that derided type of person who lacks social grace and all that. And that is the major difference between WoW and EQ1 that "social grace". As far as design philosophy. Some people will say its not graceful at all. Well that is fine. Socialization can be a dirty business. But bulling your way past or being blind to social issues is just as dirty and imperfect even if you are convinced you are "in the right". Which is one of the hallmarks of nerdiness.
Now you might say what about "Revenge of the Nerds"; the nerds became popular in the end. Well that is far to complex to discuss at this moment and had a lot to do with robots.
Everyone who plays an MMORPG is a nerd by default. "Normal people" are supposed to be out clubbing and having real friends and engaging in real life social situations with real life people. Existing in a simulated world alone is enough to win you the nerd title for life.
That said, we are talking about "simulated worlds" here. Thats what MMORPG's are. All people play them to be "immersed" for whatever reason they have. The correct phrase you're looking for is maybe "lore nerd" in which case I can assure you thats not what any of the SWG "immersion nerds" are talking about. Because if that was what they were talking about they wouldve quit the game without a second thought because there was so many Jedi running around, which even the most casual Star Wars fan would tell you is not the way the story says its supposed to be.
I would suggest in the future if you're going to be a huge nerd yourself and commit so much time and effort to analyzing another group of nerds, that you at least do so in a way that makes it look like you at least know what you're talking about.
Have a nice day.
PS. Did you just try to say that playing World of Warcraft does not come with a social stigma of nerdiness?
Again let me assure you, if you play WoW you are a nerd. About the only video games you are allowed to play and not be a nerd are FPS's and maybe mario. Other than that you can not claim immunity to being a nerd just because there are more nerds playing your game than any other nerd games.
Everyone who plays an MMORPG is a nerd by default. "Normal people" are supposed to be out clubbing and having real friends and engaging in real life social situations with real life people. Existing in a simulated world alone is enough to win you the nerd title for life.
That said, we are talking about "simulated worlds" here. Thats what MMORPG's are. All people play them to be "immersed" for whatever reason they have. The correct phrase you're looking for is maybe "lore nerd" in which case I can assure you thats not what any of the SWG "immersion nerds" are talking about. Because if that was what they were talking about they wouldve quit the game without a second thought because there was so many Jedi running around, which even the most casual Star Wars fan would tell you is not the way the story says its supposed to be.
I would suggest in the future if you're going to be a huge nerd yourself and commit so much time and effort to analyzing another group of nerds, that you at least do so in a way that makes it look like you at least know what you're talking about.
Have a nice day.
PS. Did you just try to say that playing World of Warcraft does not come with a social stigma of nerdiness?
Again let me assure you, if you play WoW you are a nerd. About the only video games you are allowed to play and not be a nerd are FPS's and maybe mario. Other than that you can not claim immunity to being a nerd just because there are more nerds playing your game than any other nerd games.
Thanks Dr Phil ! Now armed with this information we will all magically (if that is not too nerdy) become as cool as you so we all can go clubbing with you - what a bunch of BS.
Comments
SWG Pre-CU was a great Sandbox game but like Bandits in the night those dogs at SOE first changed the game with the CU ( Which I previewed at the Celebrations 3 SWG breakfast - Man , peeps were pissed).
Then those Skin Flints created an abomination we have come to know and love as the New game Edition without consulting or considering the player customer who they were trying to please. You can not blame over 200k customers leaving in a huff.
As I mention to Bagdersmacker , I applaud those that withstand such disconcern but no one should slight the Vets in their desire to have a game that is similar to a game removed without recourse.
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan
Why would you not be allowed to discuss an MMO on and MMO site?
Answer quoted from MMORPG.com staff:
"MMORPG.com does not allow the discussion of free servers or emulation servers; this includes any emulators or free servers for SWG or SWG pre-CU. I understand that some users feel that these topics are allowed by SOE, but until and unless SOE releases an official statement regarding these projects we are not allowing emu discussions on our boards. For any questions, please contact community@MMORPG.com."
FYI
Well said brother
So your assertion is that Blizzard Polish doesn't just add good content, fix bugs, and stream line the game mechanics, but that it polishes away the fun from the game? Interesting.
But it would only polish away the fun for the "nerds" and the general public would love the game?
Only for the immersion/sandbox nerds. Not every kind of nerd.
The "normal" person aka the general public just aren't that picky about such things. They HATE inconvience, as far as immersion they just want it to be plausible.
The reverse is true of an immersion nerd. They HATE immersion inconsistency but will go through what other people consider torturous to get whatever they consider immersion.
All you need to do is look at the stereotypical Star Trek nerd who constantly questions William Shatner about some script inconsistency in episode 23 at some Star Trek Convention.
In the end it is really just about numbers and who is in the majority and to some extent ereveryone is nerdy about something. But that stereotypical Star Trek nerd is the person that gets made fun off because they have a peculiar (ie. outside the norm) obsession with a certain thing being "correct" and disregard the currently in place norms of letting things slide for the sake of social "grease".
Many of the things immersion nerds want are directly opposed to what other "normal" people will consider fun. Even worse, since they are nerds and tend to be obesessive, controling, and lack social grace. They therefore attempt to force the entire system to revolve around their desires and lack any kind of will to compromise. In fact at the hint of compromise they go into a Rainman like fit. This puts "normal" people off. The games associated with these people are considered strange and undesirable like they have a disease.
Not that the other way around is really any better. But the reason I am framing it this way is to communicate the derision that many people feel for these games. These are social games. They obey social rules. Worrying about "correctness" = "not being cool".
The reason WoW has succeeded is only partially about quality. It is more about the fact that they minmized the pain in the ass portions of EQ combined with a fairly bug free experience. That is the part where "the general public" dislikes inconvience. But they also made the game cool and fun and all that. That is more than just "having things to do", it is also not getting all crazy about things. About being cool. This might sound juvenile, but this is really the way all social phenomenon play out. I am not talking about marketing. I am talking about not doing ridiculously punishing things for some stupid made up concept ideal like "Risk vs Reward" or "Immersion".
The general public may seem stupid. They may even justify themselves in ways that are patently stupid. But they are not as stupid as they seem. As an atomic sort of "hive-mind" the "General public" has an extremely sensitive nose for when things are getting out of hand. And when things do get out of hand the response is derision. Because the "general public" wants things to move smoothly and towards social comrpomise and when something as burdensome and subjective as immersion comes in and gets rigorouslyand arbitrarily enforced they get pissed and puke you out. And when that happens they get pissed and do various political-style things to marginlize that thing.
The point being that both SWG and EQ had elements that were just out of hand, over the deep end for most normal people. There are a number of people who like those games and look back with nostalgia and completely gloss over all the negative things that they themselves even complained about.
The hologrind was insane and sucked ass. To people who played SWG it was a burden to be born, or something bitch about or just some other thing to do. To people on the outside it is literally alarming, they say to themselve "Oh my, I don't want to be caught dead associating with that kind of insane crap. That is just plain sick". As soon outsiders are judging those sorts of game mechanics as "sick" there is a major problem. This is differentiated from the sick individuals seen in any MMORPG who play to much. It is when the game itself is viewed this way that it gets socially derided.
Both SWG and EQ had this stigma. And they had it for a reason. And most of those are rooted in these "nerdy" narrowly focused things. I purposely used "nerdy" for a reason. I didn't even use geek. I specifically mean that derided type of person who lacks social grace and all that. And that is the major difference between WoW and EQ1 that "social grace". As far as design philosophy. Some people will say its not graceful at all. Well that is fine. Socialization can be a dirty business. But bulling your way past or being blind to social issues is just as dirty and imperfect even if you are convinced you are "in the right". Which is one of the hallmarks of nerdiness.
Now you might say what about "Revenge of the Nerds"; the nerds became popular in the end. Well that is far to complex to discuss at this moment and had a lot to do with robots.
Everyone who plays an MMORPG is a nerd by default. "Normal people" are supposed to be out clubbing and having real friends and engaging in real life social situations with real life people. Existing in a simulated world alone is enough to win you the nerd title for life.
That said, we are talking about "simulated worlds" here. Thats what MMORPG's are. All people play them to be "immersed" for whatever reason they have. The correct phrase you're looking for is maybe "lore nerd" in which case I can assure you thats not what any of the SWG "immersion nerds" are talking about. Because if that was what they were talking about they wouldve quit the game without a second thought because there was so many Jedi running around, which even the most casual Star Wars fan would tell you is not the way the story says its supposed to be.
I would suggest in the future if you're going to be a huge nerd yourself and commit so much time and effort to analyzing another group of nerds, that you at least do so in a way that makes it look like you at least know what you're talking about.
Have a nice day.
PS. Did you just try to say that playing World of Warcraft does not come with a social stigma of nerdiness?
Again let me assure you, if you play WoW you are a nerd. About the only video games you are allowed to play and not be a nerd are FPS's and maybe mario. Other than that you can not claim immunity to being a nerd just because there are more nerds playing your game than any other nerd games.
Everyone who plays an MMORPG is a nerd by default. "Normal people" are supposed to be out clubbing and having real friends and engaging in real life social situations with real life people. Existing in a simulated world alone is enough to win you the nerd title for life.
That said, we are talking about "simulated worlds" here. Thats what MMORPG's are. All people play them to be "immersed" for whatever reason they have. The correct phrase you're looking for is maybe "lore nerd" in which case I can assure you thats not what any of the SWG "immersion nerds" are talking about. Because if that was what they were talking about they wouldve quit the game without a second thought because there was so many Jedi running around, which even the most casual Star Wars fan would tell you is not the way the story says its supposed to be.
I would suggest in the future if you're going to be a huge nerd yourself and commit so much time and effort to analyzing another group of nerds, that you at least do so in a way that makes it look like you at least know what you're talking about.
Have a nice day.
PS. Did you just try to say that playing World of Warcraft does not come with a social stigma of nerdiness?
Again let me assure you, if you play WoW you are a nerd. About the only video games you are allowed to play and not be a nerd are FPS's and maybe mario. Other than that you can not claim immunity to being a nerd just because there are more nerds playing your game than any other nerd games.
Thanks Dr Phil ! Now armed with this information we will all magically (if that is not too nerdy) become as cool as you so we all can go clubbing with you - what a bunch of BS.
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan