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The Problem with MMO Development and Small Studios
JJMicromegas
Member Posts: 17
Well I'm going to try and make a thread about something that is not directly DF related so that we can at least have a decent discussion about something substantiative.
There are some goods and services that require a large scale company to be able to do, examples of this would be something like a nuclear power plant, building sky scrapers, building a universal operating system. Because projects like this require such large investment and complicated co-ordination amongst multiple professions and disciplines, only organizations that are relatively large can pull off projects of this size. I'm not going to linger on this point, but trust me I have worked for both large and small companies in the power and energy industries so have seen both sides pretty well.
Using that analogy, it maybe that MMO's require large budget studios with a lot of cash to be able to pull off. The problem is that then these studios will want a large player base, meaning their games will be watered down for the masses (ie: carebear rules, guaranteed loot etc.). What we are seeing here is an independant company trying to cater to a niche market but without the proper critical mass to be able to pull it off.
There are exceptions of course, mainly EVE, but remember that that game almost failed completely and was on the brink of shutting down before they turned it around.
So anyway let's not flame Aventurine or DF, but instead let's have a real discussion about the MMO's and what's needed to pull one off.
I was once a mad scientist
Comments
Darkfall is not suffering because it is a small studio. It is suffering because they are full of hot air.
If Darkfall was for real, the devs would have released videos of real features of the game, not just of a few people running around an empty map. There would have been real progress reports on development and they would have allowed any press into the beta that wanted in. Small companies with small budgets should have been begging reviewers to play their game and get as much free press as possible. Darkfall should be one of those games where websites viewers get sick of hearing about dev chats and professional reviews.
The reason they aren't allowing reviews or allowing beta testers to talk is because there are no 'advanced' features. Even The Noob said none of that stuff was turned on. The only thing this game is is a big empty world with goblin scouts.
Darkfall is not suffering because it is a small studio. It is suffering because they are full of hot air.
If Darkfall was for real, the devs would have released videos of real features of the game, not just of a few people running around an empty map. There would have been real progress reports on development and they would have allowed any press into the beta that wanted in. Small companies with small budgets should have been begging reviewers to play their game and get as much free press as possible. Darkfall should be one of those games where websites viewers get sick of hearing about dev chats and professional reviews.
The reason they aren't allowing reviews or allowing beta testers to talk is because there are no 'advanced' features. Even The Noob said none of that stuff was turned on. The only thing this game is is a big empty world with goblin scouts.
well supposedly most of the stuff was turned on with the january 22nd patches.
Darkfall is not suffering because it is a small studio. It is suffering because they are full of hot air.
If Darkfall was for real, the devs would have released videos of real features of the game, not just of a few people running around an empty map. There would have been real progress reports on development and they would have allowed any press into the beta that wanted in. Small companies with small budgets should have been begging reviewers to play their game and get as much free press as possible. Darkfall should be one of those games where websites viewers get sick of hearing about dev chats and professional reviews.
The reason they aren't allowing reviews or allowing beta testers to talk is because there are no 'advanced' features. Even The Noob said none of that stuff was turned on. The only thing this game is is a big empty world with goblin scouts.
It is kind of silly that people still argue that the game is not real. Also you arguement that they should be begging ppl to review their game is pure ignorance. They have not markerted their game at all, and they are going to probley have more subscribers than they can handle..... with a small amount of people making the game, and a limited budget, their self multiplying fanbase is low on the priority list.
Also they have said they are going to gradually turn stuff on, and if you read the patch notes you would know this is what is happening.
Darkfall is not suffering because it is a small studio. It is suffering because they are full of hot air.
If Darkfall was for real, the devs would have released videos of real features of the game, not just of a few people running around an empty map. There would have been real progress reports on development and they would have allowed any press into the beta that wanted in. Small companies with small budgets should have been begging reviewers to play their game and get as much free press as possible. Darkfall should be one of those games where websites viewers get sick of hearing about dev chats and professional reviews.
The reason they aren't allowing reviews or allowing beta testers to talk is because there are no 'advanced' features. Even The Noob said none of that stuff was turned on. The only thing this game is is a big empty world with goblin scouts.
well supposedly most of the stuff was turned on with the january 22nd patches.
and you know that from whom? The NDA-bound friends/family? The journalists who have been allowed to play?
Everyone is still under and NDA.. so all you have is a lot of quessing.
tottaly agree! most people cant even imagine complexity of making that huge project. small companies have to be almost perfect otherwise they ll sink fast...
Aventurine marketing is VERY SMART. with almost no costs theirs advertisment is quite efficient.
its still bussines , take over it.
Darkfall is not suffering because it is a small studio. It is suffering because they are full of hot air.
If Darkfall was for real, the devs would have released videos of real features of the game, not just of a few people running around an empty map. There would have been real progress reports on development and they would have allowed any press into the beta that wanted in. Small companies with small budgets should have been begging reviewers to play their game and get as much free press as possible. Darkfall should be one of those games where websites viewers get sick of hearing about dev chats and professional reviews.
The reason they aren't allowing reviews or allowing beta testers to talk is because there are no 'advanced' features. Even The Noob said none of that stuff was turned on. The only thing this game is is a big empty world with goblin scouts.
well supposedly most of the stuff was turned on with the january 22nd patches.
and you know that from whom? The NDA-bound friends/family? The journalists who have been allowed to play?
Everyone is still under and NDA.. so all you have is a lot of quessing.
We know it from the patch server....fail more.
Darkfall is not suffering because it is a small studio. It is suffering because they are full of hot air.
If Darkfall was for real, the devs would have released videos of real features of the game, not just of a few people running around an empty map. There would have been real progress reports on development and they would have allowed any press into the beta that wanted in. Small companies with small budgets should have been begging reviewers to play their game and get as much free press as possible. Darkfall should be one of those games where websites viewers get sick of hearing about dev chats and professional reviews.
The reason they aren't allowing reviews or allowing beta testers to talk is because there are no 'advanced' features. Even The Noob said none of that stuff was turned on. The only thing this game is is a big empty world with goblin scouts.
well supposedly most of the stuff was turned on with the january 22nd patches.
and you know that from whom? The NDA-bound friends/family? The journalists who have been allowed to play?
Everyone is still under and NDA.. so all you have is a lot of quessing.
Or hes in the beta like a lot of other people.... And he Knows it for fact? He just can't say. Part of the cool think these beta guys have, is that its exclusive right now, and people are crying that there are no big leaks. I know if I knew something, I wouldn't be sharing it with people who scream, VAPORZZZ. WTF do I care what they think? I hope they don't buy it. I don't want to give them any of the bandwidth I might occupy.
Strongaxe (ROFL) Bye. Don''t get headshot-PKed and full-looted on your way out.
ROFL what are you doing here yellow-belly ?
Its hiliarious that a decent thread can't go without an invasion of fanboy posts.
I think the biggest problems with MMO development is the need for all the art, model, and level design. People play MMOs expecting to be awed by a huge land mass with lots of interesting areas and mobs. It takes a long time to create good and efficient models that can roam around on a diverse landscape. They also expect to have freedom in customization with their characters, and that takes a long time to make sure that the models work correctly.
Right, the fanboy invasion that responds to the second poster claiming their is no game. Or the fanboy invasion that responds to him saying the game will fail when their is no content...
Darn those fanboys and their logic.
I encourage you respond and argue my first points if you are going to call me a fanboy.."thinktank"
i think the biggest problem is with creating game system that is funny and safe
Incase you didn't know!! This is the darkfall forums, so people who are waiting for this game to release would of course reply to these posts.
Darkfall is not suffering because it is a small studio. It is suffering because they are full of hot air.
If Darkfall was for real, the devs would have released videos of real features of the game, not just of a few people running around an empty map. There would have been real progress reports on development and they would have allowed any press into the beta that wanted in. Small companies with small budgets should have been begging reviewers to play their game and get as much free press as possible. Darkfall should be one of those games where websites viewers get sick of hearing about dev chats and professional reviews.
The reason they aren't allowing reviews or allowing beta testers to talk is because there are no 'advanced' features. Even The Noob said none of that stuff was turned on. The only thing this game is is a big empty world with goblin scouts.
well supposedly most of the stuff was turned on with the january 22nd patches.
and you know that from whom? The NDA-bound friends/family? The journalists who have been allowed to play?
Everyone is still under and NDA.. so all you have is a lot of quessing.
official patch notes. maybe i can better phrase it and say alot of the stuff was turned on. Maybe theres still more thats not turned on yet.
Darkfall is not suffering because it is a small studio. It is suffering because they are full of hot air.
If Darkfall was for real, the devs would have released videos of real features of the game, not just of a few people running around an empty map. There would have been real progress reports on development and they would have allowed any press into the beta that wanted in. Small companies with small budgets should have been begging reviewers to play their game and get as much free press as possible. Darkfall should be one of those games where websites viewers get sick of hearing about dev chats and professional reviews.
The reason they aren't allowing reviews or allowing beta testers to talk is because there are no 'advanced' features. Even The Noob said none of that stuff was turned on. The only thing this game is is a big empty world with goblin scouts.
well supposedly most of the stuff was turned on with the january 22nd patches.
Kind of funny that 90% of the game is just now turned on for testing even though Darkfall was feature complete in November.
I'm sorry, but you can't trust these guys; totally full of hot air. There are NO videos of sieging, player housing, crafting... That's not fishy to you fanboys? Just because some videos of people running around a field doesn't mean DF is what it says it is.
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Darkfall is not suffering because it is a small studio. It is suffering because they are full of hot air.
If Darkfall was for real, the devs would have released videos of real features of the game, not just of a few people running around an empty map. There would have been real progress reports on development and they would have allowed any press into the beta that wanted in. Small companies with small budgets should have been begging reviewers to play their game and get as much free press as possible. Darkfall should be one of those games where websites viewers get sick of hearing about dev chats and professional reviews.
The reason they aren't allowing reviews or allowing beta testers to talk is because there are no 'advanced' features. Even The Noob said none of that stuff was turned on. The only thing this game is is a big empty world with goblin scouts.
well supposedly most of the stuff was turned on with the january 22nd patches.
Kind of funny that 90% of the game is just now turned on for testing even though Darkfall was feature complete in November.
I'm sorry, but you can't trust these guys; totally full of hot air. There are NO videos of sieging, player housing, crafting... That's not fishy to you fanboys? Just because some videos of people running around a field doesn't mean DF is what it says it is.
well its not neccesaarily a lie. they may have had all the features in november, and they decided to progressively test certain features rather than testing them all at once?
Darkfall is not suffering because it is a small studio. It is suffering because they are full of hot air.
If Darkfall was for real, the devs would have released videos of real features of the game, not just of a few people running around an empty map. There would have been real progress reports on development and they would have allowed any press into the beta that wanted in. Small companies with small budgets should have been begging reviewers to play their game and get as much free press as possible. Darkfall should be one of those games where websites viewers get sick of hearing about dev chats and professional reviews.
The reason they aren't allowing reviews or allowing beta testers to talk is because there are no 'advanced' features. Even The Noob said none of that stuff was turned on. The only thing this game is is a big empty world with goblin scouts.
well supposedly most of the stuff was turned on with the january 22nd patches.
Kind of funny that 90% of the game is just now turned on for testing even though Darkfall was feature complete in November.
I'm sorry, but you can't trust these guys; totally full of hot air. There are NO videos of sieging, player housing, crafting... That's not fishy to you fanboys? Just because some videos of people running around a field doesn't mean DF is what it says it is.
just because it wasn't patched in doesn't mean its undeveloped!!! IF you want people to test specific things, then I'm pretty sure you need to keep them doing what you want. How better to do so? You think they wrote all the new data in the last 3 months? 90% of the game in 3 months? (According to Troll)
Darkfall is not suffering because it is a small studio. It is suffering because they are full of hot air.
If Darkfall was for real, the devs would have released videos of real features of the game, not just of a few people running around an empty map. There would have been real progress reports on development and they would have allowed any press into the beta that wanted in. Small companies with small budgets should have been begging reviewers to play their game and get as much free press as possible. Darkfall should be one of those games where websites viewers get sick of hearing about dev chats and professional reviews.
The reason they aren't allowing reviews or allowing beta testers to talk is because there are no 'advanced' features. Even The Noob said none of that stuff was turned on. The only thing this game is is a big empty world with goblin scouts.
yawn no idea what your talking about
Darkfall is not suffering because it is a small studio. It is suffering because they are full of hot air.
If Darkfall was for real, the devs would have released videos of real features of the game, not just of a few people running around an empty map. There would have been real progress reports on development and they would have allowed any press into the beta that wanted in. Small companies with small budgets should have been begging reviewers to play their game and get as much free press as possible. Darkfall should be one of those games where websites viewers get sick of hearing about dev chats and professional reviews.
The reason they aren't allowing reviews or allowing beta testers to talk is because there are no 'advanced' features. Even The Noob said none of that stuff was turned on. The only thing this game is is a big empty world with goblin scouts.
well supposedly most of the stuff was turned on with the january 22nd patches.
Kind of funny that 90% of the game is just now turned on for testing even though Darkfall was feature complete in November.
I'm sorry, but you can't trust these guys; totally full of hot air. There are NO videos of sieging, player housing, crafting... That's not fishy to you fanboys? Just because some videos of people running around a field doesn't mean DF is what it says it is.
just because it wasn't patched in doesn't mean its undeveloped!!! IF you want people to test specific things, then I'm pretty sure you need to keep them doing what you want. How better to do so? You think they wrote all the new data in the last 3 months? 90% of the game in 3 months? (According to Troll)
because he doesnt know what Q/A testing is lol
I think every problem can be offset by the benefits. The reason small studios usually exist is to fill a niche market that large publishers and companies aren't filling. Publishers and producers across all genres are huge creative cloning facilities where they try to rehash and rip off anything successful. Every once in a while something good comes along, but within months to a year it is so overdone it is forgotten. Almost any truly classic and memorable song, movie, or game is done by indy organizations, or small scale projects. Once they blow up they lose the magic. This is where selling out comes from. It is sad that this is happening so adamantly with games now, but it is a cycle that rapes any creative venue.
Don't become a machine, a zombie, or lose your individuality. Support creativity over cloning and ripping off, and hope that these companies that get rich off of destroying creativity and originality don't take over the world because that would not be a world that I would want my children and grandchildren to grow up in.
Yep. I think they are doing a great job despite their limitations in budget/manpower. I actually prefer the lack of information. As long as they don't sell out, they can delay b/c of publishers or any other reason. Just deliver the features when it does launch and maintain the concepts behind the development post-launch. It costs me nothing to wait for a game to launch.
Better that than signing w/ a publisher that will bastardize the game post-launch for more subscribers. Keep the game's design, creative, and growth in the hands of the creators.
Darkfall is not suffering because it is a small studio. It is suffering because they are full of hot air.
If Darkfall was for real, the devs would have released videos of real features of the game, not just of a few people running around an empty map. There would have been real progress reports on development and they would have allowed any press into the beta that wanted in. Small companies with small budgets should have been begging reviewers to play their game and get as much free press as possible. Darkfall should be one of those games where websites viewers get sick of hearing about dev chats and professional reviews.
The reason they aren't allowing reviews or allowing beta testers to talk is because there are no 'advanced' features. Even The Noob said none of that stuff was turned on. The only thing this game is is a big empty world with goblin scouts.
well supposedly most of the stuff was turned on with the january 22nd patches.
and you know that from whom? The NDA-bound friends/family? The journalists who have been allowed to play?
Everyone is still under and NDA.. so all you have is a lot of quessing.
there are confirmed leaks, and ALOT of people were added into beta on the 22nd, but you won't believe anything anyway so it doesn't freaking matter.
When I'm energetic I'm:
the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
When I'm at default I'm:
WHITE/BLUE
Lol according to this I'm bipolar :O
Because it makes total sense to start fully testing an MMO a month before it launches.
I wish Aventurine luck, but right now all I can see are flashbacks to Vanguard's launch. I even went back to the VG forums here and went through the archives of the month before the game came out. It''s almost identical to this forum, and they had a larger staff and a larger budget.
For now i'm happy with the way Aventurine are handling their game. Could it be better? Yes. Could it be worse? Hell yes.
They're not good at guesstimating that's for sure but from the patch notes we can see that they are working hard on Darkfall and there seems to be a lot more work to be done. Will they manage by the Feb 25 date? Dunno. Will they release preorders and launch an unfinished game just to keep the date? Looking at their history, i doubt it. And that puts them waay higher than some specific companies in my book.
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
Because it makes total sense to start fully testing an MMO a month before it launches.
I wish Aventurine luck, but right now all I can see are flashbacks to Vanguard's launch. I even went back to the VG forums here and went through the archives of the month before the game came out. It''s almost identical to this forum, and they had a larger staff and a larger budget.
Actually, assuming you spent enough time on it, progressive testing would be far superior to regular "full-on" testing. It would be easier to locate problem areas and fix them when you are only really dealing with small areas of code per-phase, rather than the whole kit and kaboodle. Furthermore, it would be easier to locate related problems once you dealt with localized problems first.
Assuming you spent enough time GETTING to a full test...yeah, a month would be fine. By that point you should only REALLY be testing (assuming you did a good progressive test) server stability and code problems that are only found when multiple areas are interacting. A month would be more than enough.
IF they did the progressive test right.
Which we have no clue of.
And they aren't telling.