Except for the part where they have 350K people banging on their door to let them play, plus probably double that of which will buy it post release who havent heard of teh game from word of mouth... Yeah, im sure the game will have 5K subs.
In case you haven't noticed, there is a trend with mmorgs. As soon as a game starts accepting closed beta applications or gets close to some sort of 'open' beta phase, all the parasites come out of the woodwork looking for something free to play (testing be damned). A good percentage of your '350k' are looking for something to play for free and will have no intention of ever buying the game. They will just move on to the next game that offers a chance of playing a game for free.
Given that a lot of people displaying interest in Darkfall have had no real background in a full-loot, FFA-PvP gaming environment (its easy to talk tough on the internet), many are going to be in for a bit of a shock when they continuously find themselves facedown in the dirt and respawning with starter gear on a daily basis. I would be surprised if after the first 30 days, Darkfall had more than 25k subscribers (I am not expecting many to make it past the 30 day trial if there is one), and most probably a few thousand less after the 60 day mark. After that the population should stabilise, but I doubt the game is going to be the "massive hit" that the game's fans so desperately want.
Full loot doesn't work in a game like WoW because the loot you have is priceless. In UO, there were little (if any) priceless items that people carried on them. When you died, it sucked because you lost your pride and some items, but you could restock fairly easy. That is why full loot worked. If a person had an average of 30,000 coins in their bank. Then when they died, they lost about 2,000 to 3,000 worth of items - it was not crippling. It stung, but you didn't want to quit the game over it. You just wanted to go back and kill the asshole who killed you - creating an intensely entertaining PvP system. If you took away full loot, the game would have been boring.
Some did some didn't. Trammel killed Felucca not because it was carebear it killed it because carebears didn't want to play on felluca. They would have left UO for greener pastures anyway if there had been no Trammel. Darkfall will see a lot of that and those people will leave. Then it may have the same problem that plauged Felucca and Shadowbane. Big empty world syndrome. It's a very real issue with open PvP games. We'll just have to see how big the market is for full loot open PvP.
Shadowbane was a bad game, period.
The point is, if someone made a quality PvP oriented game,it would do fine. Whether Darkfall is one, is highly debatable, but to say that a PvP based game with full loot can never be successful is wrong.
Ah, here we go again.
The Hardcore's Alternate History of Gaming, Chapter XV: "Shadowbane failed because of its glitches, not its premise".
How convenient. If Darkfall fails, we can already expect that one: It wasn't because of full-loot PvP, it was because of the bugs and glitches. Every FFA PvP game that comes out and fails, it will never be because it's full-loot, it will always be something else that gets the blame...
Thats like saying Horizons failed because it had playable dragons. No other successfull mmorpgs before or since Horizons has had playable dragons. Does this mean an mmorpg with playable dragons can never be a success? Could it possibly be that the game failed because it SUCKED IN NEARLY EVERY WAY, and that it had nothing to do with the dragons?
The truth is that nobody knows how a well executed full loot pvp game will do in todays market, because it hasnt been done. All you and others can do is point at UO and SB with different takes on what really happened. I like how you refer to "every ffa pvp game" as if there are loads of them, when the only ones that has ever existed of significance were UO, SB, EVE(which is pretty damn successful by the way) and to an extent AC(because it was just 1 server, but thats the server AC is remembered by, not the white worlds). White games have had dozens, if not hundreds. Just take one look to the left of your screen, its almost all of them. Many of them suck badly. Is it so unreasonable to grasp the concept of one full loot pvp game being inherently bad(sb)?
(Talking to everyone now)
Darkfall is a niche game, and theres no reason for anyone to come here trying to turn it into a theme park. I don't go to McDonalds when I want a gourmet meal. I don't go to the video game store when I am looking to buy some clothes. If you don't like bondage, you dont go to the BDSM store, demanding that they open an alternative store for you. The main problem with a game like Darkfall opening up non-loot servers is that the developers then has to cater to the needs of both crowds, ending in a compromise that hurts both servers leaving neither happy. This happened in Asheron's Call.
It does baffle me to see what people seem to be trying here. Attempting to turn one game out of hundreds to be the same as every other game on the market. It is as if they feel threatened by a new game concept, by innovation and the courage to do something different. As if they are afraid it will turn the genre away from the concept they enjoy. As if all developers have a duty to respond to their needs with every single game. You are spoiled. Try putting yourself in the shoes of those that enjoy this type of game for a moment. Imagine that every mmo on the market was like Darkfall, and that you didnt get your theme park(wow, lotro, war, conan, whichever you choose) even once since Everquest. Then finally, one day, someone releases a game similar to Everquest, and we'd all try to stop it from happening, trying to stop you from getting a game you enjoy to play. The whole thing is disgusting to me.
If Darkfall is successful, you should congratulate the developers for daring to try. You shouldnt try to keep innovation down. If it turns out to flop, you should shrug and move on, and play whatever it is that you play. One day someone will try again, and maybe they will get it right. Just because you see a concept as doomed to fail, that doesnt mean that others arent willing to spend millions on trying, because THEY believe in it. Then who the fuck are you to say they cant.
Because when you don't give your players a choice to play NON-PvP, and when they don't know the difference, chances are - their going to just play the game for what it gives them. The times have changed, I personally enjoyed pre-Kunark EQ, but - those days are gone. I do like to PvP, but let's face it - full-loot? That's Retarded, and only gankers and trolls will play this game for the sake of killing eachother worldwide over and over again - and guess what? That's nothing different compared to WoW - save for the fact that rather than playing in a battleground or whatnot, it's WORLDWIDE...... I'll probably try Darkfall, but after being ganked a bit I'll just quit and get my credit card company to reimburse my money. It's all good.
Well, the idiots like you are exactly the ones that push this genre further and further into the dust.
You obviously don't have any clear understanding over what is going on around here. The gamers want change and a different experience. There are plenty of people out there who enjoy dieing and losing everything because you have the possibility of winning and looting everything. It's fun to sit in your chair and play a game that raises your heartbeat by 40-60%. I can't tell you how fun that is.. It's just an incredible feeling. One moment you're sitting there with a rate of about 100. Then BAM!! In the matter of a single moment your heart just sits in your throat and starts racing at 156!! You start sweating and thinking fast. .. And when you get away you get reaaaal fucking pleased with yourself. But, when you dont you're ready to scream so loud that the whole neighbourhood wakes up. I think that is cool.
I have my dought about the game big time. but if you have a strong guid [and that is what the game is supposed to be about] then the gankers will soon find themselves the ganked. that's just how real life games work . Paintball is fun cause that damn ball hurts when it hits you!
Originally posted by fyerwall I think your missing the point. It has nothing to do with PKers. It has nothing to do with loot or PvP in general. The community is both inside the game and outside the game on forums. When you have a community that is as negative and vocal as a KKK rally, you drive potential players, new players and even vet players away from a game. People can ask for resource links and, as with a lot of what is seen on these forums, be told in snide/rude ways to "STFU and google". When the community is a one sided "holier than thou" collection of players, it has a negative impact on the game itself. That is what causes a game to either crash and burn or pull a 180 like UO did with the splits.
You're basing it too much on your own personal experience.
I never posted on the forums. Nobody I knew in the game posted on the forums.
Most people on there were fun to play with. I loved the game and I disagree that the community is what tore it apart. For most people, the only reason to continue playing after Trammel was because of the community... although without conflict, the community became boring and stale... so even that couldn't keep us in the game.
You need assholes and "villains" to have "good guys" and "heroes" in a game.
I have a different view point. I think any game with levels doesn't work for PvP. Levels ruin PvP. I'm not against level games, they're just not for me.
The other thing is the whole sandbox vs story that we've all seen around. I for one am heartily sick of storyline games. I don't want quests with arrows pointing the way to the solution. I don't want any arrows telling me which town I have to go to next.
I'm all for people that like those games getting what they want, but this game isn't it.
To me, this game isn't UO or AoC, and definitely not Vanguard, it's more Eve, but on ground. That's what I'm hoping for and holding out for. I don't think it's going to be smooth, but if it gets there then it'll be worth it for me.
It has nothing to do with PKers. It has nothing to do with loot or PvP in general.
The community is both inside the game and outside the game on forums. When you have a community that is as negative and vocal as a KKK rally, you drive potential players, new players and even vet players away from a game. People can ask for resource links and, as with a lot of what is seen on these forums, be told in snide/rude ways to "STFU and google".
When the community is a one sided "holier than thou" collection of players, it has a negative impact on the game itself. That is what causes a game to either crash and burn or pull a 180 like UO did with the splits.
I will agree that Darkfall has one of the worst communities around. But even a godly community would react like they do with the way newcomers post.
In Darkfall forums (when they were up) people were creating threads (4 or 5 each day sometimes) asking the same basic things that a simple Search would have answered. What do you expect when, day after day, people ask the same because they don't bother to search?
Look at this same thread. The OP is asking for flames. He could have made this same thread using a bit of intelligence and get better results. Instead he just calls the community Gankers, Trolls and tags full loot as retarded in his first post.
Do you really expect polite answers to people like this? They just don't deserve them.
He does have a point though. Seriously guys, a lot of us love the ideas this game brings, but with the newer crowd of MMO goers being the WOW generation, I do expect to see a high rise at the start and a huge drop of players eventually. Nowhere near the 5k subs he suspects, but full loot ffa pvp isn't for everyone. We shall see how it pans out after release. I'm just going to take a wild guess at MAYBE a steady 100k subs after 6 months depending on the state of the game at release, but I could be horribly wrong too and this could very well hit 500k+ and growing at that time.
If you don't like non-consenual pvp and full-loot, that's fine. That's your preference.
But if you say a game will automatically fail because of it, you're wrong. If done correctly, a game like this can be successful or even the most successful mmo out there.
Is darkfall that game? Maybe. Based on what I've seen, I doubt it would be the most succesful, but it definitely has a shot at at least being successful.
Because those "hardcore" games like Darkfall won't withstand bankruptcy. Let's say, and this is only an example, 100k people try Darkfall. Afterward, only 5k stay. You really think 5,000 subscribers will hold the game afloat? Releasing with Full-PvP and Full-Loot will be great, sure, but after six months of it? No one ever read that one story about how a guy and his buddy spent two weeks in UO farming a shit-ton of items and money, then - out of nowhere - some asshole popped up and "literally" killed them and took TWO WEEKS of items/gold/silver. The right thing to do would make a Full-PvP, No-Loot server. Would that really hurt the game? If anything the Looters could just hang out on their server while the Non-Looters could do their thing on their own server. It makes sense. And I'll even place a bet that the Non-Loot server constantly remains over-populated. It's statistics. Think about it. If players aren't given a CHOICE, their going to go to another game, and if this game can't hold up subs, then it's going to eventually die off MUCH quicker than you could ever think of. And You're right, carebears do have their own games, but they want something new - something refreshing - I'm not looking at the interest of the mainstream, casual gamer - I'm looking at the interests of Aventurine keeping it's game afloat.
EDIT : And before anyone claims I'm a carebear, you're wrong - because as mentioned above - someone ganked and looted two guys - that someone is me. But I felt bad about it when I read the story. I will spend some time looking for it, give me a bit.
Except for the part where they have 350K people banging on their door to let them play, plus probably double that of which will buy it post release who havent heard of teh game from word of mouth... Yeah, im sure the game will have 5K subs.
150-250k is more than enough to keep the game running, anymore is just surplus. They are not blizzard, they arent in this for 100+millions, they are making a fun game for gamers to enjoy, not to pad there corporate pockets.
hahaha. if you say so buddy.
They're in for as much as they can get. The rules apply to all corporate entities. -Money First-
Why not offer more than FFA PVP? I think what the OP is getting at is once Trammell came about that very few players ever went to Felucca to PVP......Also their sub numbers increased considerably when Trammell was introduced.......Maybe all the OP is aksing is that there be other alternatives to the FFA PVP ruleset (ie alternate ruleset servers)........
What's going to happen is only the small minority of gamers out there, the "hardcore," live in mom's basement, 300 lb'ers will play Darkfall bc of the FFA PvP.
Then, in an effort to acutally make some money (which is the goal of all game companies), they'll open a "Trammel." Then the subs will roll in, and the game witll be fun for a majority of gamers.
Why not cut through the inevitable and create the Trammel-version now?
Felucca became a ghost town because all of us were busy finding ways around the carebear rules in Trammel. Like joining guilds and killing guildies then looting their corpses and dropping guild. Splitting into fel/tram was the first step to UO's downfall.
Also, certain "precious" items were not lootable in UO. This included House Deeds, House Keys, Rune Books, and newbie gear. Those were basically some of the only invaluable items in the game. Everything else cost the equivalent of a bag of ramen in real world terms.
Sorry, pre-Trammel, you could lose ANYTHING. Including the items you listed above.
House deeds, keys unlootable? Lol, yes they were.
Runebooks and your "newbie" weapon? Yep again, but only if it was kept anywhere except in your main pack.
Please, if you are going to try to tell how UO "was", at least get it right.
Trammel removed the tamers, bards, and crafters from fel. Thus, removing PKs as well. What did you expect to happen to fel when you remove one side of the battle? Good vs Evil .... Red Vs blue..... They took the goods and blues to trammel and the reds and evils quit. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out things like this.
... let's face it - full-loot? That's Retarded, and only gankers and trolls will play this game...
Okay...your an EQ lover and thats fine. Dont like a player-driven and influenced sandbox, which is what this is....move along...dont waste your time by trolling here. The EQ forums need you.
i dont understand there alot other games coming out and that others that are already out people can play why do you have to pick to change this one..... maybe we can add items stores everyone loves that lol
Originally posted by Respit House deeds, keys unlootable? Lol, yes they were.
Your right, the troll is wrong. I remember my first fresh deed..a 2-story. Hehe...I lost it while getting ganked looking for that perfect location. I wouldnt have changed a thing....sure it hurt, but the openess is worth more to me.
Sorry, pre-Trammel, you could lose ANYTHING. Including the items you listed above. House deeds, keys unlootable? Lol, yes they were. Runebooks and your "newbie" weapon? Yep again, but only if it was kept anywhere except in your main pack. Please, if you are going to try to tell how UO "was", at least get it right. Thanks.
Those items (most of them, iirc) were made unlootable/stealable before trammel. But you're right, at one time they were lootable (which I admit sucked).
And why would anyone put their runebook in a seperate pack if that made it lootable? That one was just common sense.
Either way, nobody carried a house deed around carelessly. I remember anytime someone in my guild bought a house, we all went together (just in case) to go place it. And you know what? That was pretty exciting shit for a video game.
What's going to happen is only the small minority of gamers out there, the "hardcore," live in mom's basement, 300 lb'ers will play Darkfall bc of the FFA PvP. Then, in an effort to acutally make some money (which is the goal of all game companies), they'll open a "Trammel." Then the subs will roll in, and the game witll be fun for a majority of gamers. Why not cut through the inevitable and create the Trammel-version now?
The 300lbers are the WoW players who literally cry their eyes out for a videogame. The other, stable people, will not be crying when we die because we realize that this is a VIDEO GAME and losing some of your items is not the end of the world.
People who hate non-consenual PvP and full-loot play MMOs for different reasons. They play because they have no outlet for socializing and want to be their avatar with all of his shiny objects. People who enjoy non-consenual PvP enjoy a good game, they enjoy competiing in a game against real people and understand that to lose is part of the game. That's right it's a game. It's not real life. When you lose your pixels, it's not the end of the world.
After awhile they made it like that, I remember being a spy for one guild. when the guild that i was spying on bought thier first keep, i remember being outside it with the guild master with the key in hisbags, In mean time i was on ICQ relayng the info to my real guild, so they ended up comeing over and we ganked the guild master and looted the keeps key LOL free keep for us. Yea it was pretty harsh but very funny at same time
Sorry, pre-Trammel, you could lose ANYTHING. Including the items you listed above. House deeds, keys unlootable? Lol, yes they were. Runebooks and your "newbie" weapon? Yep again, but only if it was kept anywhere except in your main pack. Please, if you are going to try to tell how UO "was", at least get it right. Thanks.
Those items (most of them, iirc) were made unlootable/stealable before trammel. But you're right, at one time they were lootable (which I admit sucked).
And why would anyone put their runebook in a seperate pack if that made it lootable? That one was just common sense.
Either way, nobody carried a house deed around carelessly. I remember anytime someone in my guild bought a house, we all went together (just in case) to go place it. And you know what? That was pretty exciting shit for a video game.
For the purpose of this thread, we are talking about pre-1999 UO. That era of UO everything with the exception of your starter item (which was basically a class item) was lootable. That's why when you rezzed, you had a Deathrobe. Because you were literally without anything cept your under clothes.
Runebooks didn't even exist before 1999, and it was less than a year after their introduction that Trammel came into being.
To the best that I can recall, house deeds were always lootable up until the introduction of the Housing Tool. Which was also after Trammel.
As to why anyone would do anything that seems like common sense not to do? I would say, because untill something happens like that to you, or to someone you know, and if you don't care to keep up with every litle aspect of the game on a 24/7 basis, things will happen. After a few of these "suprises", people the mainstream player (even some of the ones that enjoy PvP) will decide it is not worth the effort to put another suit of armour together, or that spellbook full of spells, etc....
Which leads us to the Achilles heal of Open World, Full Loot PvP 24/7. After a while, the only ones left are the players pretty well versed in the concept. And it isn't too long before what I term the "Crocodile Syndrome" sets in. Where the adults will eat there young if hungry. I.E. Felucca.
Will Darkfall fail? I don't know. Personally, I don't feel that it will be able to support itself in today's economy without having mass market appeal in some way.
I'll give it a shot when/if it launches in the US. Untill then, I'll just stand in the road and kick it in.
Comments
In case you haven't noticed, there is a trend with mmorgs. As soon as a game starts accepting closed beta applications or gets close to some sort of 'open' beta phase, all the parasites come out of the woodwork looking for something free to play (testing be damned). A good percentage of your '350k' are looking for something to play for free and will have no intention of ever buying the game. They will just move on to the next game that offers a chance of playing a game for free.
Given that a lot of people displaying interest in Darkfall have had no real background in a full-loot, FFA-PvP gaming environment (its easy to talk tough on the internet), many are going to be in for a bit of a shock when they continuously find themselves facedown in the dirt and respawning with starter gear on a daily basis. I would be surprised if after the first 30 days, Darkfall had more than 25k subscribers (I am not expecting many to make it past the 30 day trial if there is one), and most probably a few thousand less after the 60 day mark. After that the population should stabilise, but I doubt the game is going to be the "massive hit" that the game's fans so desperately want.
Some did some didn't. Trammel killed Felucca not because it was carebear it killed it because carebears didn't want to play on felluca. They would have left UO for greener pastures anyway if there had been no Trammel. Darkfall will see a lot of that and those people will leave. Then it may have the same problem that plauged Felucca and Shadowbane. Big empty world syndrome. It's a very real issue with open PvP games. We'll just have to see how big the market is for full loot open PvP.
Shadowbane was a bad game, period.
The point is, if someone made a quality PvP oriented game,it would do fine. Whether Darkfall is one, is highly debatable, but to say that a PvP based game with full loot can never be successful is wrong.
Ah, here we go again.
The Hardcore's Alternate History of Gaming, Chapter XV: "Shadowbane failed because of its glitches, not its premise".
How convenient. If Darkfall fails, we can already expect that one: It wasn't because of full-loot PvP, it was because of the bugs and glitches. Every FFA PvP game that comes out and fails, it will never be because it's full-loot, it will always be something else that gets the blame...
Thats like saying Horizons failed because it had playable dragons. No other successfull mmorpgs before or since Horizons has had playable dragons. Does this mean an mmorpg with playable dragons can never be a success? Could it possibly be that the game failed because it SUCKED IN NEARLY EVERY WAY, and that it had nothing to do with the dragons?
The truth is that nobody knows how a well executed full loot pvp game will do in todays market, because it hasnt been done. All you and others can do is point at UO and SB with different takes on what really happened. I like how you refer to "every ffa pvp game" as if there are loads of them, when the only ones that has ever existed of significance were UO, SB, EVE(which is pretty damn successful by the way) and to an extent AC(because it was just 1 server, but thats the server AC is remembered by, not the white worlds). White games have had dozens, if not hundreds. Just take one look to the left of your screen, its almost all of them. Many of them suck badly. Is it so unreasonable to grasp the concept of one full loot pvp game being inherently bad(sb)?
(Talking to everyone now)
Darkfall is a niche game, and theres no reason for anyone to come here trying to turn it into a theme park. I don't go to McDonalds when I want a gourmet meal. I don't go to the video game store when I am looking to buy some clothes. If you don't like bondage, you dont go to the BDSM store, demanding that they open an alternative store for you. The main problem with a game like Darkfall opening up non-loot servers is that the developers then has to cater to the needs of both crowds, ending in a compromise that hurts both servers leaving neither happy. This happened in Asheron's Call.
It does baffle me to see what people seem to be trying here. Attempting to turn one game out of hundreds to be the same as every other game on the market. It is as if they feel threatened by a new game concept, by innovation and the courage to do something different. As if they are afraid it will turn the genre away from the concept they enjoy. As if all developers have a duty to respond to their needs with every single game. You are spoiled. Try putting yourself in the shoes of those that enjoy this type of game for a moment. Imagine that every mmo on the market was like Darkfall, and that you didnt get your theme park(wow, lotro, war, conan, whichever you choose) even once since Everquest. Then finally, one day, someone releases a game similar to Everquest, and we'd all try to stop it from happening, trying to stop you from getting a game you enjoy to play. The whole thing is disgusting to me.
If Darkfall is successful, you should congratulate the developers for daring to try. You shouldnt try to keep innovation down. If it turns out to flop, you should shrug and move on, and play whatever it is that you play. One day someone will try again, and maybe they will get it right. Just because you see a concept as doomed to fail, that doesnt mean that others arent willing to spend millions on trying, because THEY believe in it. Then who the fuck are you to say they cant.
I pretty much feel the same as you OP, but I'm addicted to roleplaying in a realistic environment, and that Darkfall might provide.
Of course if it is a gankfest bringing frustration after frustration, then it won't be the game for me.
Well, the idiots like you are exactly the ones that push this genre further and further into the dust.
You obviously don't have any clear understanding over what is going on around here. The gamers want change and a different experience. There are plenty of people out there who enjoy dieing and losing everything because you have the possibility of winning and looting everything. It's fun to sit in your chair and play a game that raises your heartbeat by 40-60%. I can't tell you how fun that is.. It's just an incredible feeling. One moment you're sitting there with a rate of about 100. Then BAM!! In the matter of a single moment your heart just sits in your throat and starts racing at 156!! You start sweating and thinking fast. .. And when you get away you get reaaaal fucking pleased with yourself. But, when you dont you're ready to scream so loud that the whole neighbourhood wakes up. I think that is cool.
I have my dought about the game big time. but if you have a strong guid [and that is what the game is supposed to be about] then the gankers will soon find themselves the ganked. that's just how real life games work . Paintball is fun cause that damn ball hurts when it hits you!
You're basing it too much on your own personal experience.
I never posted on the forums. Nobody I knew in the game posted on the forums.
Most people on there were fun to play with. I loved the game and I disagree that the community is what tore it apart. For most people, the only reason to continue playing after Trammel was because of the community... although without conflict, the community became boring and stale... so even that couldn't keep us in the game.
You need assholes and "villains" to have "good guys" and "heroes" in a game.
I have a different view point. I think any game with levels doesn't work for PvP. Levels ruin PvP. I'm not against level games, they're just not for me.
The other thing is the whole sandbox vs story that we've all seen around. I for one am heartily sick of storyline games. I don't want quests with arrows pointing the way to the solution. I don't want any arrows telling me which town I have to go to next.
I'm all for people that like those games getting what they want, but this game isn't it.
To me, this game isn't UO or AoC, and definitely not Vanguard, it's more Eve, but on ground. That's what I'm hoping for and holding out for. I don't think it's going to be smooth, but if it gets there then it'll be worth it for me.
Asdar
I will agree that Darkfall has one of the worst communities around. But even a godly community would react like they do with the way newcomers post.
In Darkfall forums (when they were up) people were creating threads (4 or 5 each day sometimes) asking the same basic things that a simple Search would have answered. What do you expect when, day after day, people ask the same because they don't bother to search?
Look at this same thread. The OP is asking for flames. He could have made this same thread using a bit of intelligence and get better results. Instead he just calls the community Gankers, Trolls and tags full loot as retarded in his first post.
Do you really expect polite answers to people like this? They just don't deserve them.
He does have a point though. Seriously guys, a lot of us love the ideas this game brings, but with the newer crowd of MMO goers being the WOW generation, I do expect to see a high rise at the start and a huge drop of players eventually. Nowhere near the 5k subs he suspects, but full loot ffa pvp isn't for everyone. We shall see how it pans out after release. I'm just going to take a wild guess at MAYBE a steady 100k subs after 6 months depending on the state of the game at release, but I could be horribly wrong too and this could very well hit 500k+ and growing at that time.
If you don't like non-consenual pvp and full-loot, that's fine. That's your preference.
But if you say a game will automatically fail because of it, you're wrong. If done correctly, a game like this can be successful or even the most successful mmo out there.
Is darkfall that game? Maybe. Based on what I've seen, I doubt it would be the most succesful, but it definitely has a shot at at least being successful.
Except for the part where they have 350K people banging on their door to let them play, plus probably double that of which will buy it post release who havent heard of teh game from word of mouth... Yeah, im sure the game will have 5K subs.
150-250k is more than enough to keep the game running, anymore is just surplus. They are not blizzard, they arent in this for 100+millions, they are making a fun game for gamers to enjoy, not to pad there corporate pockets.
hahaha. if you say so buddy.
They're in for as much as they can get. The rules apply to all corporate entities. -Money First-
Its all about risk vs reward and adrenaline rush...
Dont u like adrenaline rushs? OP?
Go play poker with playmoney or play WoW PvP if u dont,
Cuz aventurine wont setup up non risk servers.
QFT.
What's going to happen is only the small minority of gamers out there, the "hardcore," live in mom's basement, 300 lb'ers will play Darkfall bc of the FFA PvP.
Then, in an effort to acutally make some money (which is the goal of all game companies), they'll open a "Trammel." Then the subs will roll in, and the game witll be fun for a majority of gamers.
Why not cut through the inevitable and create the Trammel-version now?
Felucca became a ghost town because all of us were busy finding ways around the carebear rules in Trammel. Like joining guilds and killing guildies then looting their corpses and dropping guild. Splitting into fel/tram was the first step to UO's downfall.
My theme song.
Sorry, pre-Trammel, you could lose ANYTHING. Including the items you listed above.
House deeds, keys unlootable? Lol, yes they were.
Runebooks and your "newbie" weapon? Yep again, but only if it was kept anywhere except in your main pack.
Please, if you are going to try to tell how UO "was", at least get it right.
Thanks.
DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness
Trammel removed the tamers, bards, and crafters from fel. Thus, removing PKs as well. What did you expect to happen to fel when you remove one side of the battle? Good vs Evil .... Red Vs blue..... They took the goods and blues to trammel and the reds and evils quit. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out things like this.
Okay...your an EQ lover and thats fine. Dont like a player-driven and influenced sandbox, which is what this is....move along...dont waste your time by trolling here. The EQ forums need you.
i dont understand there alot other games coming out and that others that are already out people can play why do you have to pick to change this one..... maybe we can add items stores everyone loves that lol
Your right, the troll is wrong. I remember my first fresh deed..a 2-story. Hehe...I lost it while getting ganked looking for that perfect location. I wouldnt have changed a thing....sure it hurt, but the openess is worth more to me.
Those items (most of them, iirc) were made unlootable/stealable before trammel. But you're right, at one time they were lootable (which I admit sucked).
And why would anyone put their runebook in a seperate pack if that made it lootable? That one was just common sense.
Either way, nobody carried a house deed around carelessly. I remember anytime someone in my guild bought a house, we all went together (just in case) to go place it. And you know what? That was pretty exciting shit for a video game.
The 300lbers are the WoW players who literally cry their eyes out for a videogame. The other, stable people, will not be crying when we die because we realize that this is a VIDEO GAME and losing some of your items is not the end of the world.
People who hate non-consenual PvP and full-loot play MMOs for different reasons. They play because they have no outlet for socializing and want to be their avatar with all of his shiny objects. People who enjoy non-consenual PvP enjoy a good game, they enjoy competiing in a game against real people and understand that to lose is part of the game. That's right it's a game. It's not real life. When you lose your pixels, it's not the end of the world.
One group can't handle losing in a game.
The other can.
After awhile they made it like that, I remember being a spy for one guild. when the guild that i was spying on bought thier first keep, i remember being outside it with the guild master with the key in hisbags, In mean time i was on ICQ relayng the info to my real guild, so they ended up comeing over and we ganked the guild master and looted the keeps key LOL free keep for us. Yea it was pretty harsh but very funny at same time
Those items (most of them, iirc) were made unlootable/stealable before trammel. But you're right, at one time they were lootable (which I admit sucked).
And why would anyone put their runebook in a seperate pack if that made it lootable? That one was just common sense.
Either way, nobody carried a house deed around carelessly. I remember anytime someone in my guild bought a house, we all went together (just in case) to go place it. And you know what? That was pretty exciting shit for a video game.
For the purpose of this thread, we are talking about pre-1999 UO. That era of UO everything with the exception of your starter item (which was basically a class item) was lootable. That's why when you rezzed, you had a Deathrobe. Because you were literally without anything cept your under clothes.
Runebooks didn't even exist before 1999, and it was less than a year after their introduction that Trammel came into being.
To the best that I can recall, house deeds were always lootable up until the introduction of the Housing Tool. Which was also after Trammel.
As to why anyone would do anything that seems like common sense not to do? I would say, because untill something happens like that to you, or to someone you know, and if you don't care to keep up with every litle aspect of the game on a 24/7 basis, things will happen. After a few of these "suprises", people the mainstream player (even some of the ones that enjoy PvP) will decide it is not worth the effort to put another suit of armour together, or that spellbook full of spells, etc....
Which leads us to the Achilles heal of Open World, Full Loot PvP 24/7. After a while, the only ones left are the players pretty well versed in the concept. And it isn't too long before what I term the "Crocodile Syndrome" sets in. Where the adults will eat there young if hungry. I.E. Felucca.
Will Darkfall fail? I don't know. Personally, I don't feel that it will be able to support itself in today's economy without having mass market appeal in some way.
I'll give it a shot when/if it launches in the US. Untill then, I'll just stand in the road and kick it in.
DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness
Ya I have to agree, full PVP with loot just won't work. Simply look at other MMO's that have PVP servers... low numbers wasteland.