The reason Felucca became a ghost town was that players, for the most part, will always go the route that offers less risk versus reward. As I've stated before and can easily be looked up; Trammel did not bring a huge amount of subscribers to UO. Sure there were more subscribers when UO:R was released, but that was true with every MMORPG that released expansions at the time. UO:T2A brought in a large number of new players as well. Sure the number of subscriptions jumped more with UO:R than with UO:T2A... but the growth wasn't really any bigger. Both expansions brought about the same percentage of growth. I know of several people who had quit uo prior to UO:R (not for looting reason etc, just boredom) who returned with UO:R mainly for the reason they could build houses. Previously they couldn't as there was no room left on Felucca. Of course they also wanted to try out the new game mechanics too (changes to combat skills etc.)
Please stop arguing that UO:R (Trammel) showed that full loot PvP didn't work, as it didn't bring about any significant growth to the game.
Except for the part where they have 350K people banging on their door to let them play, plus probably double that of which will buy it post release who havent heard of teh game from word of mouth... Yeah, im sure the game will have 5K subs. 150-250k is more than enough to keep the game running, anymore is just surplus. They are not blizzard, they arent in this for 100+millions, they are making a fun game for gamers to enjoy, not to pad there corporate pockets.
I see this same foolishness over and over from the DF community - that Avent is producing a game out of the goodness of their hearts to cater to a small set of "hardcore" players who believe they deserve to be able to play a certain type of game. Avent isn't doing it, or cares less, for money.
Hogwash.
Avent is making this game because they believe they see a niche void that they can fill, and hope they generate enough subs from players interested in that type of niche game.
They don't love you, and aren't doing it for humanitarian reasons. They want your money. To that end, if they later determine that an alternate ruleset server will make more money for them, they'll probably do it. Additionally, if that castrates the populations of the FFA full loot servers, that's only more proof that the people who enjoy that style of game (of which I am one) are so small a minority that they really don't merit a game that takes millions to produce and thousands of other players to make fun.
no one has completely good intentions (aside from like ghandi and the like). But if the devs really didn't care about delivering to the best of their ability, there were many other opportunities for them to make a big quick buck and leave (they could have released in 03, in 08, in January, etc.)
Secondly, yes you may be right in your guessings thou, PvP has always had less players than PvE, but my guess is that most of them simply do not know what they are missing, in a fun a strategic sort of way a NPC can never give you the same challenge to that of a real human opponent...
Actually, with all due respect this is not really the case.
Most people who don't like pvp really want a more controlled gameplay experience. They don't want to deal with players' e-peens or attitudes or getting ganked or everything else that comes with many pvp games.
A good many players play these games for story or social reasons. Some exploration as well and a chance to just experience an online world.
It takes a different type of personality to enjoy pvp, especially an open pvp environment.
It seems for the most part that players are not looking for challenge but for a more story driven experience. For example, they aren't looking to pit themselves and their skills against an opponent or to feel adrenaline induced gameplay.
They are more looking for the "I was on a road and came across bandits, they attacked but I lept into battle and defeated my foes so that I could get to castle [insert name here] in order to deliver my message to the king", gameplay experience.
This is not to say that some people won't enjoy pitting skills or the challenge of pvp but I don't really think it's correct to assume that they are not playing because they don't know what they are missing.
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It seems for the most part that players are not looking for challenge but for a more story driven experience. For example, they aren't looking to pit themselves and their skills against an opponent or to feel adrenaline induced gameplay.
I don't understand those people. Why don't they go play an RPG on their playstation?
This is an mmorpg. We're supposed to be playing with and against each other.
It seems for the most part that players are not looking for challenge but for a more story driven experience. For example, they aren't looking to pit themselves and their skills against an opponent or to feel adrenaline induced gameplay.
I don't understand those people. Why don't they go play an RPG on their playstation?
This is an mmorpg. We're supposed to be playing with and against each other.
There is no MMORPG law that states you are supposed to be playing against each other though...
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
The main reason why most game fail at PvP is becouse they are build to be PvE games and balanced for that purpose. I believe it not to be posible to balance a game to cater both hardcore PvE and hardcore PvP poeple.
This game will not be like anything else and will not have a changed ruleset later on, becouse I really have the feeling this game will a world of nothing without PvP and I do believe many none-pvp'ers might actualy start to love the game and PvP. I find PvE to be much more fun if you have to mistrust everyone and anyone close to you :P
Except for the part where they have 350K people banging on their door to let them play, plus probably double that of which will buy it post release who havent heard of teh game from word of mouth... Yeah, im sure the game will have 5K subs. 150-250k is more than enough to keep the game running, anymore is just surplus. They are not blizzard, they arent in this for 100+millions, they are making a fun game for gamers to enjoy, not to pad there corporate pockets.
I see this same foolishness over and over from the DF community - that Avent is producing a game out of the goodness of their hearts to cater to a small set of "hardcore" players who believe they deserve to be able to play a certain type of game. Avent isn't doing it, or cares less, for money.
Hogwash.
Avent is making this game because they believe they see a niche void that they can fill, and hope they generate enough subs from players interested in that type of niche game.
They don't love you, and aren't doing it for humanitarian reasons. They want your money. To that end, if they later determine that an alternate ruleset server will make more money for them, they'll probably do it. Additionally, if that castrates the populations of the FFA full loot servers, that's only more proof that the people who enjoy that style of game (of which I am one) are so small a minority that they really don't merit a game that takes millions to produce and thousands of other players to make fun.
no one has completely good intentions (aside from like ghandi and the like). But if the devs really didn't care about delivering to the best of their ability, there were many other opportunities for them to make a big quick buck and leave (they could have released in 03, in 08, in January, etc.)
Oh, I'm sure they are trying to produce the best quality product they can. That is also in their best self-interest - they stand to make and keep more subs (and more money) if the game is of good quality than if they release a really buggy game that lacks in content or fails to do what they claim it will do.
I just find it humorous that some people seem to think they have a "right" to be able to play a certain style of game, and that Avent is catering to them for humanitarian reasons. My point is - if Avent didn't think they were going to be able to corner a decent niche for themselves, and make money, they wouldn't have made DF.
It seems for the most part that players are not looking for challenge but for a more story driven experience. For example, they aren't looking to pit themselves and their skills against an opponent or to feel adrenaline induced gameplay.
I don't understand those people. Why don't they go play an RPG on their playstation?
This is an mmorpg. We're supposed to be playing with and against each other.
There is no MMORPG law that states you are supposed to be playing against each other though...
I know, I just don't understand why you wouldn't want to... It's like those guys who go to the park to play chess, except they'd all go sit in the park and play against a computer instead of each other.
MMO AI has never been on par with console AI (and probably never will be for obvious reasons), however MMO PvP beats any AI monster. To me, it's a million times more thrilling to play against a person with minor consequences, such as losing what amounts to maybe .05% of my total assets, than it is to play against a mindless monster.
It seems for the most part that players are not looking for challenge but for a more story driven experience. For example, they aren't looking to pit themselves and their skills against an opponent or to feel adrenaline induced gameplay.
I don't understand those people. Why don't they go play an RPG on their playstation?
This is an mmorpg. We're supposed to be playing with and against each other.
There is no MMORPG law that states you are supposed to be playing against each other though...
I know, I just don't understand why you wouldn't want to... It's like those guys who go to the park to play chess, except they'd all go sit in the park and play against a computer instead of each other.
MMO AI has never been on par with console AI (and probably never will be for obvious reasons), however MMO PvP beats any AI monster. To me, it's a million times more thrilling to play against a person with minor consequences, such as losing what amounts to maybe .05% of my total assets, than it is to play against a mindless monster.
I see what you're getting at, but you also got to think about the fact that sometimes playing against a real player is like playing against game AI.
But I agree, pvp does get the blood pumping when you are bored.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Feluccia in UO became a ghost town because of Tom Chilton, he created a carebear mirror universe and all the bad players and carebears flocked to it. With no one to kill in pvp on a pvp game the game began it's slow death.
DF is not a hybrid pve/pvp and it's not catering to pve it completely ignores carebear sentiments of cowardice. DF will more than likely have features carebears like though, especially crafting, which is why they want it to use WoW rules so badly, because with a hardcore ruleset most of them will not be able to handle DF either to scared or just not good enough to play it, and it scares them to death to have their inferiority challenged.
But if you want pve go play LOTR a high quality dungeon raid game, but DF is not the game for casual facerolling and gear advancement.
DF is not going to be a wow killer and it doesn't want to be, but it will do the job of seperating the A and B grade players from the Weak, and as we all know Carebears hate being shown for what they really are, unskilled players.
What they did with UO was a newbie mistake. Cutting servers in two instead of opening PvE shards followed by Transfers and Merges if needed, was the reason Felucca became a ghost town. You can't just cut a comunity in two and expect everything will be fine. Even if both sides have equal number of players, 50% PVErs and 50% PvPrs, you reduce by half the amount of people they can interact. A newbie mistake in a newbie industry.
This is what I think a few of the posters are asking for....its not that they want to totally change the game its that they want alternatives to the FFA PVP.......Darkfall may very well be a good game but the soloers and others have no chance against gank squads......I guess we'll jsut have to see how it plays out...... Then again if the game is as bad as those dev previews on youtube we wont have to worry about it anyway.
Because those "hardcore" games like Darkfall won't withstand bankruptcy. Let's say, and this is only an example, 100k people try Darkfall. Afterward, only 5k stay. You really think 5,000 subscribers will hold the game afloat?
EVE Online has arond 250,000 subscriptions. I'd say pvp is more hardcore in that because in darkfall, when you die, half of your equipment doesn't get wiped out (as far as i know).
Because those "hardcore" games like Darkfall won't withstand bankruptcy. Let's say, and this is only an example, 100k people try Darkfall. Afterward, only 5k stay. You really think 5,000 subscribers will hold the game afloat?
EVE Online has arond 250,000 subscriptions. I'd say pvp is more hardcore in that because in darkfall, when you die, half of your equipment doesn't get wiped out (as far as i know).
Never heard about that. I'm pretty sure the only things you can keep in Darkfall after death are rubbish starter weapons, it's probably stated in an old interview around.
EvE got safe zones, and supposedly in DF players can get killed even at towns (if the guard NPCs are going to instagib the pk'ers is another subject). I guess Darkfall got a higher risk environment. (I dislike the term "hardcore" because it's often used for e-peen flexing)
For people saying Darkfall will be a success because of EvE, the games aren't really the same, but I guess Darkfall has a chance to be successful simply because there's the pre-Trammel niche gap. Either way it's all up to the devs to make it live it's premises.
Please explain to me then why 0.0 battles in EVE are the main reason most people play that game? You lose EVERYTHING BUT YOUR SKILLS AND MONEY if you die. Your ship, your weapons, etc. But people LOVE it! It encourages a player based economy. But it does more than that.
Think of the strategy involved here. By killing more of the enemy guild than they kill of you, you are costing them equipment and valuable time. They will get that equipment back from their crafters. The question is, how long can they keep it up? In EVE Online, you always had to worry about keeping your corporation supplied. If you ran out of materials to build more ships/weapons, you likely lost, your stations would get destroyed, and the enemy would take control of your sector. Only in a full loot game can full scale wars be seen in every sense: tactical AND economic.
i dont understand there alot other games coming out and that others that are already out people can play why do you have to pick to change this one..... maybe we can add items stores everyone loves that lol
They always try to change games that are not geared for them.... seems they ride here on the short yellow bus to these forums with their rhetoric.
There is a huge error in the logic of making any comparison of today's MMO genre to the one of 10-12 years ago.
Back then it was a couple hundred thousand people at best, mostly from a very finite segment of the population. Read: Nerds. Super, Mega, Nerds. That time period cannot be used as a reference to indicate any trend of today.
Now you have tens of millions involved with the genre in some capacity, comprised of individuals from all walks of life. DF only needs to capture a tiny, tiny fraction of the MMO pie to achieve self-sufficient success.
So why does this thread keep going? No carebear compromises needed. End of discussion.
Because when you don't give your players a choice to play NON-PvP, and when they don't know the difference, chances are - their going to just play the game for what it gives them. The times have changed, I personally enjoyed pre-Kunark EQ, but - those days are gone. I do like to PvP, but let's face it - full-loot? That's Retarded, and only gankers and trolls will play this game for the sake of killing eachother worldwide over and over again - and guess what? That's nothing different compared to WoW - save for the fact that rather than playing in a battleground or whatnot, it's WORLDWIDE...... I'll probably try Darkfall, but after being ganked a bit I'll just quit and get my credit card company to reimburse my money. It's all good.
Sorry but you need to go play any of the 100eds of "please hold my hand while I complete this quest" games out there and leave this one to the people that have been robbed of a good game for the good part of 10 years thanx to EQ, WoW and thrash like that.
I hope you get a grip on reality and NOT try DFO, it will not have a happy ening for you. Wanna know why?
IT'S NOT BUILT FOR YOU, IT WILL NEVER BE CHANGED TO MEET YOUR SHITTY GAMING STANDARDS.
Now run away.
***************************** I have nothing clever to say.
Because those "hardcore" games like Darkfall won't withstand bankruptcy. Let's say, and this is only an example, 100k people try Darkfall. Afterward, only 5k stay. You really think 5,000 subscribers will hold the game afloat? Releasing with Full-PvP and Full-Loot will be great, sure, but after six months of it? No one ever read that one story about how a guy and his buddy spent two weeks in UO farming a shit-ton of items and money, then - out of nowhere - some asshole popped up and "literally" killed them and took TWO WEEKS of items/gold/silver. The right thing to do would make a Full-PvP, No-Loot server. Would that really hurt the game? If anything the Looters could just hang out on their server while the Non-Looters could do their thing on their own server. It makes sense. And I'll even place a bet that the Non-Loot server constantly remains over-populated. It's statistics. Think about it. If players aren't given a CHOICE, their going to go to another game, and if this game can't hold up subs, then it's going to eventually die off MUCH quicker than you could ever think of. And You're right, carebears do have their own games, but they want something new - something refreshing - I'm not looking at the interest of the mainstream, casual gamer - I'm looking at the interests of Aventurine keeping it's game afloat.
EDIT : And before anyone claims I'm a carebear, you're wrong - because as mentioned above - someone ganked and looted two guys - that someone is me. But I felt bad about it when I read the story. I will spend some time looking for it, give me a bit.
You truly are living in a dream world, thinking that everyone but 5k persons IN THE WORLD share your childish views of what makes a good game.
I will argue to you dera theampark-mindless-numb-quester that there are atleast half a million of gamers out there that will not only try dfo, but continue to sub to it, for years, and years to come.
On a side note, looking at your reasoning, I can deduct that you never got any further then "FFA/PVP Full loot" in the description of this game.
insnt it time for another raid in wow for you soon?
You clame not ot be carebear.. YOU ARE THE ESSENCE OF CAREBEAR, NOW LEAVE OUR GAME ALONE!
bbye now
***************************** I have nothing clever to say.
Im sorry but this player has all the same rights and freedoms you have. Just as you are allowed to like and say "keep it" to the open-pvp full loot system, others also have the exact same rights to say "Keep the game, but full loot and world-wide pvp? would be a great game if..." Also, he is right. There was a reason felucca became a ghost town- for a reason. That is a fact that cannot be disputed. There are obviously millions of players who would love Darkfall- for many of its other great features- but minus the forced-PvP. Be tolerant of other's opinions and you will become a much better person, and your brain will enlarge instead staying a close-minded fool. Realizing others have different opinions, and realizing they aren't wrong, is the first ket to intelligence and getting out of a close-minded ignorant hate-those-who-are-different (exact same as racism) box.
no, you are wrong, becase: You CANT remove the FFA/PVP full loot, from a game that have THAT AS ITS DRIVING FORCE, you just don't get it do you?
DFO is a FFA/PVP FULL LOOT MMORPG
it is NOT
A MMO with FFA/PVP FULL LOOT
Removing FFA/PVP and full loot would be like removing quests, dungeons, Arena and Raids from WoW, their would be NOTHING LEFT
geez
***************************** I have nothing clever to say.
some asshole popped up and "literally" killed them and took TWO WEEKS of items/gold/silver.
That story has to be bullshit. Who the fuck carried 2 weeks of items on them? They'd have to be retarded.
I took 2 weeks of gold from someone in UO once. I didnt do it by ganking them, I did it by impersonating a banker.
If you don't think that is hysterically funny, maybe darkfall isn't for you.
Ummm...
Didnt everyone just walk upto a bank and say *bank* to get thier lockbox to open?
At launch, the way you got into your bank was walk up to a banker character and (essentially) trade with it. They changed that fairly quickly exactly because of the impersonation exploit.
To impersonate a banker, all you had to do was name your character "Bob the Banker" and walk back and forth in the bank, occasionaly spouting the canned NPC lines. Then, just wait for some noob to talk to you.
The interface for a trade with a human and a trade with a banker NPC wasnt exactly the same, but it was sufficiently similar that anyone not paying close attention could get screwed.
This is what I think a few of the posters are asking for....its not that they want to totally change the game its that they want alternatives to the FFA PVP.......Darkfall may very well be a good game but the soloers and others have no chance against gank squads......I guess we'll jsut have to see how it plays out...... Then again if the game is as bad as those dev previews on youtube we wont have to worry about it anyway.
Well I wouldn't mind a different ruleset from the start for people liking it. The problem is that wouldn't be easy to implement due the nature of Darkfall.
PvE: Wouldn't work. Leaving aside the problem with Towns & Hamlets looks like the PvE content will be UOish style. Not enough for a modern full time PvEr, they are used to specialized PvE games, they would find Darkfall lacking.
Only Factions: This one could work better but has one problem: Friendly Fire. If you have it enabled then it becomes FFA, if you disable it you loose a thing that will make PvP shine in this game. Friendly Fire is the "Zerg+AoE fest" tactic killer. Nothing adds more brain in a PvP fight than Friendly fire.
Limited Loot: Well, can't think any real gamebreaking downsides to this one other that would reduce the need for crafted items. Half of the looted goods end up sold at NPCs for gold, removing them from the market.
Keep in mind that half the people here are just scared.
They fear that limited loot servers or non FFA ones, will lead to empty full loot FFA servers. They are scared to find that they are wrong and their prefered gamestyle has not enough followers to fill even one server. That lack of confidence brings their anger against whoever suggest a different ruleset.
I have confidence that FFA Full Loot servers will work and have healthy population, so I wouldn't mind alternate servers (If they make sense and are there from the start) for the people who prefer them but I don't see them as viable as it sounds on paper due the nature of Darkfall.
I am not a hardocre PvPr. I enjoy all facets of Sandbox games, played a Cook on Felucca and will try to do the same in Darkfall because I had fun doing so (leading a pacific business in a hostile enviroment is quite a challenge).
Keep in mind that half the people here are just scared.
They fear that limited loot servers or non FFA ones, will lead to empty full loot FFA servers. They are scared to find that they are wrong and their prefered gamestyle has not enough followers to fill even one server. That lack of confidence brings their anger against whoever suggest a different ruleset.
I have confidence that FFA Full Loot servers will work and have healthy population, so I wouldn't mind alternate servers (If they make sense and are there from the start) for the people who prefer them but I don't see them as viable as it sounds on paper due the nature of Darkfall.
It's not that we don't think there will be enough to fill one server. I'm sure there would be enough to fill at least three or four. However, it would negatively effect the populations of regular servers. As I've stated before most players will opt for least risk versus reward, and most players who didn't plan on being some sort of PK would play the alternate servers. This may not seem like a bad thing, but it destroys the balance you need for a full PvP / Loot game to be good (or imho any game to be good). Personally I could live with this, if it weren't the only negative aspect of offering alternative rulesets.
However, in addition to destroying the population balance; it would hurt the game as a whole for everyone. Since DF has be designed with PvP and full loot to be a core feature, the non PvP / Loot servers would require gameplay changes to not only make it fun, but ensure the crafting economy keeps going. These changes would likely affect everyone who plays DF, hurting the gameplay for the people the game was originally designed for. Too many changes would be needed.
If you change the game too much, you no longer have DF; the game most of us have been following for years.
you guys have to realize that alot of people are anxious to try this game out because of all its unique features in a sandbox environment. But they are just trying it at teh very least. Hardcore rules sets are not for most, or otherwise most peole would play hardcore games. So dont expect to see over 100k players after 6 months on this game, unless they do have another server that dumbs down teh ruleset abit. they biggest issue i see without playing it will be the full looting. Some people think they will like it, untill they play and realize it isnt all that fun. But it makes death alot more srious, which is what will drive many others to it.
Comments
The reason Felucca became a ghost town was that players, for the most part, will always go the route that offers less risk versus reward. As I've stated before and can easily be looked up; Trammel did not bring a huge amount of subscribers to UO. Sure there were more subscribers when UO:R was released, but that was true with every MMORPG that released expansions at the time. UO:T2A brought in a large number of new players as well. Sure the number of subscriptions jumped more with UO:R than with UO:T2A... but the growth wasn't really any bigger. Both expansions brought about the same percentage of growth. I know of several people who had quit uo prior to UO:R (not for looting reason etc, just boredom) who returned with UO:R mainly for the reason they could build houses. Previously they couldn't as there was no room left on Felucca. Of course they also wanted to try out the new game mechanics too (changes to combat skills etc.)
Please stop arguing that UO:R (Trammel) showed that full loot PvP didn't work, as it didn't bring about any significant growth to the game.
I see this same foolishness over and over from the DF community - that Avent is producing a game out of the goodness of their hearts to cater to a small set of "hardcore" players who believe they deserve to be able to play a certain type of game. Avent isn't doing it, or cares less, for money.
Hogwash.
Avent is making this game because they believe they see a niche void that they can fill, and hope they generate enough subs from players interested in that type of niche game.
They don't love you, and aren't doing it for humanitarian reasons. They want your money. To that end, if they later determine that an alternate ruleset server will make more money for them, they'll probably do it. Additionally, if that castrates the populations of the FFA full loot servers, that's only more proof that the people who enjoy that style of game (of which I am one) are so small a minority that they really don't merit a game that takes millions to produce and thousands of other players to make fun.
no one has completely good intentions (aside from like ghandi and the like). But if the devs really didn't care about delivering to the best of their ability, there were many other opportunities for them to make a big quick buck and leave (they could have released in 03, in 08, in January, etc.)
When I'm energetic I'm:
the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
When I'm at default I'm:
WHITE/BLUE
Lol according to this I'm bipolar :O
Actually, with all due respect this is not really the case.
Most people who don't like pvp really want a more controlled gameplay experience. They don't want to deal with players' e-peens or attitudes or getting ganked or everything else that comes with many pvp games.
A good many players play these games for story or social reasons. Some exploration as well and a chance to just experience an online world.
It takes a different type of personality to enjoy pvp, especially an open pvp environment.
It seems for the most part that players are not looking for challenge but for a more story driven experience. For example, they aren't looking to pit themselves and their skills against an opponent or to feel adrenaline induced gameplay.
They are more looking for the "I was on a road and came across bandits, they attacked but I lept into battle and defeated my foes so that I could get to castle [insert name here] in order to deliver my message to the king", gameplay experience.
This is not to say that some people won't enjoy pitting skills or the challenge of pvp but I don't really think it's correct to assume that they are not playing because they don't know what they are missing.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I don't understand those people. Why don't they go play an RPG on their playstation?
This is an mmorpg. We're supposed to be playing with and against each other.
I don't understand those people. Why don't they go play an RPG on their playstation?
This is an mmorpg. We're supposed to be playing with and against each other.
There is no MMORPG law that states you are supposed to be playing against each other though...
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
The main reason why most game fail at PvP is becouse they are build to be PvE games and balanced for that purpose. I believe it not to be posible to balance a game to cater both hardcore PvE and hardcore PvP poeple.
This game will not be like anything else and will not have a changed ruleset later on, becouse I really have the feeling this game will a world of nothing without PvP and I do believe many none-pvp'ers might actualy start to love the game and PvP. I find PvE to be much more fun if you have to mistrust everyone and anyone close to you :P
I see this same foolishness over and over from the DF community - that Avent is producing a game out of the goodness of their hearts to cater to a small set of "hardcore" players who believe they deserve to be able to play a certain type of game. Avent isn't doing it, or cares less, for money.
Hogwash.
Avent is making this game because they believe they see a niche void that they can fill, and hope they generate enough subs from players interested in that type of niche game.
They don't love you, and aren't doing it for humanitarian reasons. They want your money. To that end, if they later determine that an alternate ruleset server will make more money for them, they'll probably do it. Additionally, if that castrates the populations of the FFA full loot servers, that's only more proof that the people who enjoy that style of game (of which I am one) are so small a minority that they really don't merit a game that takes millions to produce and thousands of other players to make fun.
no one has completely good intentions (aside from like ghandi and the like). But if the devs really didn't care about delivering to the best of their ability, there were many other opportunities for them to make a big quick buck and leave (they could have released in 03, in 08, in January, etc.)
Oh, I'm sure they are trying to produce the best quality product they can. That is also in their best self-interest - they stand to make and keep more subs (and more money) if the game is of good quality than if they release a really buggy game that lacks in content or fails to do what they claim it will do.
I just find it humorous that some people seem to think they have a "right" to be able to play a certain style of game, and that Avent is catering to them for humanitarian reasons. My point is - if Avent didn't think they were going to be able to corner a decent niche for themselves, and make money, they wouldn't have made DF.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
I don't understand those people. Why don't they go play an RPG on their playstation?
This is an mmorpg. We're supposed to be playing with and against each other.
There is no MMORPG law that states you are supposed to be playing against each other though...
I know, I just don't understand why you wouldn't want to... It's like those guys who go to the park to play chess, except they'd all go sit in the park and play against a computer instead of each other.
MMO AI has never been on par with console AI (and probably never will be for obvious reasons), however MMO PvP beats any AI monster. To me, it's a million times more thrilling to play against a person with minor consequences, such as losing what amounts to maybe .05% of my total assets, than it is to play against a mindless monster.
I don't understand those people. Why don't they go play an RPG on their playstation?
This is an mmorpg. We're supposed to be playing with and against each other.
There is no MMORPG law that states you are supposed to be playing against each other though...
I know, I just don't understand why you wouldn't want to... It's like those guys who go to the park to play chess, except they'd all go sit in the park and play against a computer instead of each other.
MMO AI has never been on par with console AI (and probably never will be for obvious reasons), however MMO PvP beats any AI monster. To me, it's a million times more thrilling to play against a person with minor consequences, such as losing what amounts to maybe .05% of my total assets, than it is to play against a mindless monster.
I see what you're getting at, but you also got to think about the fact that sometimes playing against a real player is like playing against game AI.
But I agree, pvp does get the blood pumping when you are bored.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Feluccia in UO became a ghost town because of Tom Chilton, he created a carebear mirror universe and all the bad players and carebears flocked to it. With no one to kill in pvp on a pvp game the game began it's slow death.
DF is not a hybrid pve/pvp and it's not catering to pve it completely ignores carebear sentiments of cowardice. DF will more than likely have features carebears like though, especially crafting, which is why they want it to use WoW rules so badly, because with a hardcore ruleset most of them will not be able to handle DF either to scared or just not good enough to play it, and it scares them to death to have their inferiority challenged.
But if you want pve go play LOTR a high quality dungeon raid game, but DF is not the game for casual facerolling and gear advancement.
DF is not going to be a wow killer and it doesn't want to be, but it will do the job of seperating the A and B grade players from the Weak, and as we all know Carebears hate being shown for what they really are, unskilled players.
This is what I think a few of the posters are asking for....its not that they want to totally change the game its that they want alternatives to the FFA PVP.......Darkfall may very well be a good game but the soloers and others have no chance against gank squads......I guess we'll jsut have to see how it plays out...... Then again if the game is as bad as those dev previews on youtube we wont have to worry about it anyway.
EVE Online has arond 250,000 subscriptions. I'd say pvp is more hardcore in that because in darkfall, when you die, half of your equipment doesn't get wiped out (as far as i know).
EVE Online has arond 250,000 subscriptions. I'd say pvp is more hardcore in that because in darkfall, when you die, half of your equipment doesn't get wiped out (as far as i know).
Never heard about that. I'm pretty sure the only things you can keep in Darkfall after death are rubbish starter weapons, it's probably stated in an old interview around.
EvE got safe zones, and supposedly in DF players can get killed even at towns (if the guard NPCs are going to instagib the pk'ers is another subject). I guess Darkfall got a higher risk environment. (I dislike the term "hardcore" because it's often used for e-peen flexing)
For people saying Darkfall will be a success because of EvE, the games aren't really the same, but I guess Darkfall has a chance to be successful simply because there's the pre-Trammel niche gap. Either way it's all up to the devs to make it live it's premises.
Please explain to me then why 0.0 battles in EVE are the main reason most people play that game? You lose EVERYTHING BUT YOUR SKILLS AND MONEY if you die. Your ship, your weapons, etc. But people LOVE it! It encourages a player based economy. But it does more than that.
Think of the strategy involved here. By killing more of the enemy guild than they kill of you, you are costing them equipment and valuable time. They will get that equipment back from their crafters. The question is, how long can they keep it up? In EVE Online, you always had to worry about keeping your corporation supplied. If you ran out of materials to build more ships/weapons, you likely lost, your stations would get destroyed, and the enemy would take control of your sector. Only in a full loot game can full scale wars be seen in every sense: tactical AND economic.
They always try to change games that are not geared for them.... seems they ride here on the short yellow bus to these forums with their rhetoric.
I post a perfectly legitimate post that leads to engaging discussion and it gets deleted. Yet this obvious troll post goes on for 100+ posts.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
There is a huge error in the logic of making any comparison of today's MMO genre to the one of 10-12 years ago.
Back then it was a couple hundred thousand people at best, mostly from a very finite segment of the population. Read: Nerds. Super, Mega, Nerds. That time period cannot be used as a reference to indicate any trend of today.
Now you have tens of millions involved with the genre in some capacity, comprised of individuals from all walks of life. DF only needs to capture a tiny, tiny fraction of the MMO pie to achieve self-sufficient success.
So why does this thread keep going? No carebear compromises needed. End of discussion.
QFT
Sorry but you need to go play any of the 100eds of "please hold my hand while I complete this quest" games out there and leave this one to the people that have been robbed of a good game for the good part of 10 years thanx to EQ, WoW and thrash like that.
I hope you get a grip on reality and NOT try DFO, it will not have a happy ening for you. Wanna know why?
IT'S NOT BUILT FOR YOU, IT WILL NEVER BE CHANGED TO MEET YOUR SHITTY GAMING STANDARDS.
Now run away.
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I have nothing clever to say.
You truly are living in a dream world, thinking that everyone but 5k persons IN THE WORLD share your childish views of what makes a good game.
I will argue to you dera theampark-mindless-numb-quester that there are atleast half a million of gamers out there that will not only try dfo, but continue to sub to it, for years, and years to come.
On a side note, looking at your reasoning, I can deduct that you never got any further then "FFA/PVP Full loot" in the description of this game.
insnt it time for another raid in wow for you soon?
You clame not ot be carebear.. YOU ARE THE ESSENCE OF CAREBEAR, NOW LEAVE OUR GAME ALONE!
bbye now
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I have nothing clever to say.
no, you are wrong, becase: You CANT remove the FFA/PVP full loot, from a game that have THAT AS ITS DRIVING FORCE, you just don't get it do you?
DFO is a FFA/PVP FULL LOOT MMORPG
it is NOT
A MMO with FFA/PVP FULL LOOT
Removing FFA/PVP and full loot would be like removing quests, dungeons, Arena and Raids from WoW, their would be NOTHING LEFT
geez
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I have nothing clever to say.
That story has to be bullshit. Who the fuck carried 2 weeks of items on them? They'd have to be retarded.
I took 2 weeks of gold from someone in UO once. I didnt do it by ganking them, I did it by impersonating a banker.
If you don't think that is hysterically funny, maybe darkfall isn't for you.
Ummm...
Didnt everyone just walk upto a bank and say *bank* to get thier lockbox to open?
At launch, the way you got into your bank was walk up to a banker character and (essentially) trade with it. They changed that fairly quickly exactly because of the impersonation exploit.
To impersonate a banker, all you had to do was name your character "Bob the Banker" and walk back and forth in the bank, occasionaly spouting the canned NPC lines. Then, just wait for some noob to talk to you.
The interface for a trade with a human and a trade with a banker NPC wasnt exactly the same, but it was sufficiently similar that anyone not paying close attention could get screwed.
Well I wouldn't mind a different ruleset from the start for people liking it. The problem is that wouldn't be easy to implement due the nature of Darkfall.
PvE: Wouldn't work. Leaving aside the problem with Towns & Hamlets looks like the PvE content will be UOish style. Not enough for a modern full time PvEr, they are used to specialized PvE games, they would find Darkfall lacking.
Only Factions: This one could work better but has one problem: Friendly Fire. If you have it enabled then it becomes FFA, if you disable it you loose a thing that will make PvP shine in this game. Friendly Fire is the "Zerg+AoE fest" tactic killer. Nothing adds more brain in a PvP fight than Friendly fire.
Limited Loot: Well, can't think any real gamebreaking downsides to this one other that would reduce the need for crafted items. Half of the looted goods end up sold at NPCs for gold, removing them from the market.
Keep in mind that half the people here are just scared.
They fear that limited loot servers or non FFA ones, will lead to empty full loot FFA servers. They are scared to find that they are wrong and their prefered gamestyle has not enough followers to fill even one server. That lack of confidence brings their anger against whoever suggest a different ruleset.
I have confidence that FFA Full Loot servers will work and have healthy population, so I wouldn't mind alternate servers (If they make sense and are there from the start) for the people who prefer them but I don't see them as viable as it sounds on paper due the nature of Darkfall.
I am not a hardocre PvPr. I enjoy all facets of Sandbox games, played a Cook on Felucca and will try to do the same in Darkfall because I had fun doing so (leading a pacific business in a hostile enviroment is quite a challenge).
Keep in mind that half the people here are just scared.
They fear that limited loot servers or non FFA ones, will lead to empty full loot FFA servers. They are scared to find that they are wrong and their prefered gamestyle has not enough followers to fill even one server. That lack of confidence brings their anger against whoever suggest a different ruleset.
I have confidence that FFA Full Loot servers will work and have healthy population, so I wouldn't mind alternate servers (If they make sense and are there from the start) for the people who prefer them but I don't see them as viable as it sounds on paper due the nature of Darkfall.
It's not that we don't think there will be enough to fill one server. I'm sure there would be enough to fill at least three or four. However, it would negatively effect the populations of regular servers. As I've stated before most players will opt for least risk versus reward, and most players who didn't plan on being some sort of PK would play the alternate servers. This may not seem like a bad thing, but it destroys the balance you need for a full PvP / Loot game to be good (or imho any game to be good). Personally I could live with this, if it weren't the only negative aspect of offering alternative rulesets.
However, in addition to destroying the population balance; it would hurt the game as a whole for everyone. Since DF has be designed with PvP and full loot to be a core feature, the non PvP / Loot servers would require gameplay changes to not only make it fun, but ensure the crafting economy keeps going. These changes would likely affect everyone who plays DF, hurting the gameplay for the people the game was originally designed for. Too many changes would be needed.
If you change the game too much, you no longer have DF; the game most of us have been following for years.
you guys have to realize that alot of people are anxious to try this game out because of all its unique features in a sandbox environment. But they are just trying it at teh very least. Hardcore rules sets are not for most, or otherwise most peole would play hardcore games. So dont expect to see over 100k players after 6 months on this game, unless they do have another server that dumbs down teh ruleset abit. they biggest issue i see without playing it will be the full looting. Some people think they will like it, untill they play and realize it isnt all that fun. But it makes death alot more srious, which is what will drive many others to it.