Read the VNboards, Doom haters seem to have no problem with this "big announcement"
ummm, good for them ?
Um, miss the OP much? That's what *he* talked about
I'm sorry but, did you not say this ?
"Read the VNboards, Doom haters seem to have no problem with this "big announcement" "
I thought you did. You made a comment, I responded to the comment YOU MADE. Surely, you are able to comprehend the chain that ties my reply to your comment ?
Probably because quite a lot of those people have been Mythic customers longer than some of the people on MMORPG and sites like it have even been gaming. They are the ones who know the complexies of oRvR and how it should work. They were his original Beta testers that even made a game like Warhammer possible. Because they poke and prod him with sticks, its the reason you and other people here can go "Ohhh look honey... a Murder event is coming!... Slayers.. OMG! WOW!" and just focus on live events that tickle your fancy bone, while they are giving the proper feedback of what's wrong with classes and siege areas. They worry about the meat and potatoes of WAR, so you can enjoy the fluffy creme filling of the game and insult "haters" for dessert. They get out of line, but you have to remember, a LOT of those guys already KNOW MJ from DAoC very intimately because with that game, he used to talk a LOT. Makes no sense for him to go to a forum where people who know little about gaming and think everything is great or there are a "few problems to iron out" are just happy that MJ actually "spoke" to them! Woot! WAAAGGGH! Please.. jockriders. Why do you think MJ doesn't speak here? Its because the WAR board here used to be full of kiss butts. He gets that over at WHA and there are more sets of lips... why would he come here too? He goes to VN because there is an awful lot of gaming know how with those ex-DAoC people and he knows it. They hold his feet to the fire, but he actually gets most of his good ideas from people over there. The WAR board here is all "You don't know.. MJ is doing a great job. Mythic is a great company. You suck. Go get a life. Go find a game you like and .. blah blah blah." Just mostly fandom here so again, WHA gives him that already. I underlined your quote above to show exactly why MJ doesn't waste time with the WAR fans here.. exactly.
Anyway, he said this today over there.. read it for yourself:
All they post on these WAR boards is "OMGZZZ! Bestest game ever!" WAAAGGGH!
Well, at least you got to hear it from MJ.. through another board.
So VN boards are full of Daoc Vets and experienced beta testers who through tough love provide constructive critisism for the benefit of the game? While I am the casual gamer who is unable to provide "proper feedback"? Or am I a kiss butt too for not flaming him with gems of posts like those I read today like "100% epic fail", "another dissapointment" and "lol"? Yeah right, I don't think so buddy.
There is nothing constructive to 95% of the posts there. I did not call them haters, but there are most definetly trollers. They worry about the "meat and potatoes" of war? I dont think so. One third of the trollers (not posters who actually do something else other than whine) no longer play the game, the other third is simply dissapointed there were no patch notes nerfing witch elves and the last third are disgruntled DaoC vets who will never be happy until WAR is Daoc Redux. Nor should you make assumptions about how much I enjoy the game or understand the basic mechanics behind it.
Mark said he would post in VN exclusively because he thought that the posters there were friendly than the ones in WHA fyi. If he wants to continue to do so, it's up to him, but as he himself said:
"Thanks, but not really. Even if we did that (provide reports on development), there would still be people here complaining.
Mark "
I am amazed you consider that flaming constructive. I am also amused that you consider mmorpg.com a war-friendly site.
To be fair. It's not like people are whining because they want *that* stuff *now*. They are whining because they were expecting something entirely different. Mark was on the VN on threads about bugs and problems with the game and kept saying "Just wait till 29th of January" "just wait till", basically building up people's expectations that something would be said on a lot of that stuff. He even mentioned there would be details about balance, bugfixes etc etc. And then this comes, an announcement with no details about any current issues whatsoever, just an announcement with (very interesting mind you) stuff far into the future, a few events in between and basically "we're working on it" on everything else.
I see your point, but I still find today's anouncement to be satisfactory. I can't think of something that Mark could have posted to prevent the unnecessary flaming that's going on right now. Most VN posters obviously wanted a long list of patch notes to discuss about, true, and I admit I expected patch notes too. But I found the news of adding an rvr dungeon more exciting myself. Besides, Mythic always tries to balance classes and constantly provides bugfixes so I don't see why should be the prime focus of an important anouncement anyway. An expasion arc, as Mark likes to call it, seems more important than yet another long list of patch notes. What should he do? Post patch notes that are yet untested? There are already interviews of upcoming rvr changes, and mark noted that the team is looking into CC changes and fortress layout issues. I can't see how he can be more specific than this.
I see both of your points.
I like the announcements a lot (specially the DF part... although I will wait and see what they do).
My main concern was and is oRvR. So seeing this:
"3) RvR changes/improvements. - This is a rather lengthy list which includes a new scenario, changes to the Zone control system, lots of Keep Upgrades (this is only our first pass at it), oRvR events and additional rewards for Zone and Campaign captures."
I think the Domination System is essential to force people to defend (and finally force people to stop PvEing the RvR!). Improving keeps (and siege which is not mentioned) is very important to me... I want a siege equal or better than DAoC's one... not worst.
So seeing that text was good. It showed me that my main concern is very important for them too.
But I was waiting a more elavorated announced... more detailed... as Pheace mentioned most people were waiting. I think that is what made people get real upset. I was waiting for that "lengthy list" to be listed! Other people were waiting for the list of bugs to be fixed. Orthers wanted the list of class balance to come. No, not the patch notes but a list of things that were been address.
More effort could had been done in the announcement.
We are giving them time and they were fixing things... but since xmas they stoped doing much so we were waiting for the "big" announcement. And the big annoucement sounded... non-detailed... and we really were waiting for details.
I think the reaction is unfair and very "dramatic" (people love drama) but it's understandable.
I am still having fun in WAR. I will still play WAR. But Mythic is running out of time. The detailed list MJ didnt provide today will cost him some accounts. But if the next two months end up been a dissapointement... it will cost him a huge part of the population, imo.
For now, I am rolling alts (i suffer from altitis) and doing roaming groups in T4. But it wont keep me going forever... I need sieging and more appealing RvR. In this moment, for me, DAoC's RvR is still far superior than WAR's one.
So, imo, in the next two months they should address a very big amount of bugs (amount totally subjective for each of us, of course), put the 2 classes, set the Domination System and finally fix the Fortress problem (wihout cap or with a cap enough high not to leave many out) and they should address some class balance problems. I think that's their main plan but we will have to see if they deliver.
So VN boards are full of Daoc Vets and experienced beta testers who through tough love provide constructive critisism for the benefit of the game? While I am the casual gamer who is unable to provide "proper feedback"? Or am I a kiss butt too for not flaming him with gems of posts like those I read today like "100% epic fail", "another dissapointment" and "lol"? Yeah right, I don't think so buddy. There is nothing constructive to 95% of the posts there. I did not call them haters, but there are most definetly trollers. They worry about the "meat and potatoes" of war? I dont think so. One third of the trollers (not posters who actually do something else other than whine) no longer play the game, the other third is simply dissapointed there were no patch notes nerfing witch elves and the last third are disgruntled DaoC vets who will never be happy until WAR is Daoc Redux. Nor should you make assumptions about how much I enjoy the game or understand the basic mechanics behind it. Mark said he would post in VN exclusively because he thought that the posters there were friendly than the ones in WHA fyi. If he wants to continue to do so, it's up to him, but as he himself said: "Thanks, but not really. Even if we did that (provide reports on development), there would still be people here complaining. Mark " I am amazed you consider that flaming constructive. I am also amused that you consider mmorpg.com a war-friendly site.
Oh, I'm sorry but I didn't mean to suggest (or have you think) that MMORPG.com is a WAR "friendly" site. I've found the site (mods) to be extremely neutral in most cases and have even said so. Darkfall is Crazytown right now with all the "White Border" stuff and they let that run 60 pages or so, so they are neutral all around. I don't see heavy handedness here.
The reason MJ posts on VN more (esp now) is that he burned bridges at WHA and tried to make the Mod there look like a fool to cover a lie, which was revealed anyway.
The mod was commenting on something someone said about official WAR forums coming, the mod said "no matter what MJ says, never say never". I figure the mod had heard some info, but he let it lie there. MJ came on 3 hrs later with "Never. I said it many times, blah blah blah. Is that clear enough?", essentially making the mod look like a liar. Couple months later, the Mod releases info that even though MJ had said on NUMEROUS occasions there would NEVER be forums, the mod said he got plenty of info saying otherwise. The mod was vindicated and MJ proved a liar because, lo and behold, guess who is having official forums this year? Thats why he don't post on WHA. He's been proven a liar, so now the Comm Coords handle the bulk of the chat.
I also don't mean to suggest you are a fanboi. Or that you have no gaming knowledge. Or that you are kissing Mythic's butt like you're looking for a job. I would hope you would take what I say about a general forum and not personalize it. I was pretty much responding to your question as to why he posts there. Which, btw, you failed to comment that MJ stated he got good ideas from VN posters. I think if he thought it was "95%" negative, he wouldn't bother so that part is definitely coming out of your eye, not his. I noticed you took half of what I provided about MJ in that quote, but left out where he said what I just stated why he posts at VN. Very shrewd move.
Anyways, you made an obviously naive statement saying you "don't understand why he'd post only on VN" (which btw, he doesn't post ONLY on VN) and I provided you with the quote from MJ telling you exactly why. Then you now claim you know why MJ posts there with this:
Originally posted by Amanautor Mark said he would post in VN exclusively because he thought that the posters there were friendly than the ones in WHA fyi. If he wants to continue to do so, it's up to him, but as he himself said..
So you first claim in one post not to understand why he posts there, but now you claim to understand why he posts there. But you cannot find this quote where he supposedly said that? Okie dokey.
Read the VNboards, Doom haters seem to have no problem with this "big announcement"
ummm, good for them ?
Um, miss the OP much? That's what *he* talked about
I'm sorry but, did you not say this ?
"Read the VNboards, Doom haters seem to have no problem with this "big announcement" "
I thought you did. You made a comment, I responded to the comment YOU MADE. Surely, you are able to comprehend the chain that ties my reply to your comment ?
ummm, good for you ?
I feel sorry for you if thats the best reply you got after being put in your place.
Haha, what's sad is someone like you who goes through the trouble of making accounts like that to copy other people like an 8 year old actually thinks he's going to be taken seriously, buh-bye
For me that news feels like a half full/half empty glass situation.As many stated all these were supposed to be ingame at launch.The Land of Dead dungeon will definitely be a plus but what about the whole T4 boredomness?The ctds?
Like I said in another thread, MJ pulls out his "jokers" each time the situation starts to turn sour and people just rolled back to play their beloved class.
Anyway the game is getting where it was supposed to be,I won't resub now but will wait till July to see how things evolved.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
I hope some of the next Jokers we'll see are capital cities for the other racial pairing. Those I look forward to seeing in the game. And of course the addition of destructable / scalable keep walls as well, like in DAoC.
I hope some of the next Jokers we'll see are capital cities for the other racial pairing. Those I look forward to seeing in the game. And of course the addition of destructable / scalable keep walls as well, like in DAoC.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
i wonder how do the doomsayers and haters will reply to this news.
What the addition of 2 more classes will add to the gameplay?
I don't think that the lack of classes is the biggest problem for WAR.
Yes nice add, but nothing really groundbreaking.
If you think about it, those 2 classes were supposed to be launched at release, so they are months late.
I don't want to be a doomsayer, I just don't see why haters should be worried about this news.
Actually those 2 classes were not supposed to be in game at launch. The Choppa and the Hammerer were supposed to be released at launch. You forget about a lil fella called Slayer, he took the Hammerer's place.
I admit it was a small technicality but I did get ya on that technicality. lol
I'm currently not playing...but from everything I've read it seems Mythic is doing a great job. I look forward to sometime down the line resubscribing once the game is a little more rounded out and they have the last race cities in.
i wonder how do the doomsayers and haters will reply to this news.
What the addition of 2 more classes will add to the gameplay?
I don't think that the lack of classes is the biggest problem for WAR.
Yes nice add, but nothing really groundbreaking.
If you think about it, those 2 classes were supposed to be launched at release, so they are months late.
I don't want to be a doomsayer, I just don't see why haters should be worried about this news.
Actually those 2 classes were not supposed to be in game at launch. The Choppa and the Hammerer were supposed to be released at launch. You forget about a lil fella called Slayer, he took the Hammerer's place.
I admit it was a small technicality but I did get ya on that technicality. lol
Then if they had cut 12 classes before launch and put them back in now, you would be a genius. Just think of the point you are trying to take credit for? You are fighting over a pile of poop and are happy about it.
I agree, those 2 classes are nothing to brag about, they should be at launch, but they are also releasing new RvR area and many other things.
Sure its nothing unheard, but they are definately good aditions to the game and ppl should be happy with just what it is, instead of ranting about what should or shouldnt have been released at launch.
Its a game, if u like it, excellent, have fun, if you dont or you think you dont agree with the game politics, just move on, and find yourself another game and have fun!
Oh wow did not think this would reach 5 pages, sure some of this is old news in a way but it shows that mythic intends to show a faster response to thier customers, also with the news of an official forums thats a big step and the combat review patch (the careers overhaul) thats nice.
instead of adding a new dungeon what they need to do instead is take away the current method in capturing a city and do this instead.
for zone locks, they start as soon as the keeps and bos are all captured in the current zone by one side ,also that zone has a timer for when the zone that would be locked is locked . when it is locked , lets say a good 2 hours, the zone that then becomes unlocked next is then contested. if the zone that was contested gets won over by the opposing side and is held for 2 hours, then the last zone that was locked then becomes unlocked while the zone that was defended becomes locked for 3 hours if by then the zone that was currently captured ,the fortresses can then become contessed while the last zone becomes locked for 3 hours and is on a 3 hour time limit to be captured , when the time limit for when the fortress can be claimed there is a initial 2 hour time limit for the other side to try to recapture it, if they fail to do so then the city can be sieged .no more need for scenarios to be the deciding factor if a zone locks or not and when that side finally captures a fortress , only 1 fotrtress needed. then and only then a city siege can take place, and the burning and rapeing and pilaging can take place, best armor, best weapons, best sets end gear to come from doing the city siege and killing the king.
whoooooa. that was a lot to say. hope that makes sence.
this is return would cause more people to particapate in pvp /orvr.
ya cant argue with this . the whole point of the game is to kill the king of the enemy . why not make the root towards this curent method be the way ?
and dont give me none of this bs order is outnumbered . cause its about even on both sides.
the only reason it may seem like order is outnumbered is because they never show up for a fight unless there is no resistance .
The problem that Mythic has faced, from Beta and now, is that the development process is just too slow. They didn't have enough time to include what they wanted at release. Look at the timelines for this new content - April, May, June? Even if it's on time, which history shows as not very likely, that's 1/3 to 1/2 a YEAR ahead.
Players want, and expect, problems fixed in a timely fashion, but the developers can't deliver on the quickening expectations of the players. The game, and development team, that finds a way to speed up the SDC will be The Next Big Thing, in my opinion.
The problem that Mythic has faced, from Beta and now, is that the development process is just too slow. They didn't have enough time to include what they wanted at release. Look at the timelines for this new content - April, May, June? Even if it's on time, which history shows as not very likely, that's 1/3 to 1/2 a YEAR ahead. Players want, and expect, problems fixed in a timely fashion, but the developers can't deliver on the quickening expectations of the players. The game, and development team, that finds a way to speed up the SDC will be The Next Big Thing, in my opinion.
A decent sized update every month is reasonable.
Jesus Christ...do you think they just pull content out their ass? Be real now. It takes time.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
The problem that Mythic has faced, from Beta and now, is that the development process is just too slow. They didn't have enough time to include what they wanted at release. Look at the timelines for this new content - April, May, June? Even if it's on time, which history shows as not very likely, that's 1/3 to 1/2 a YEAR ahead. Players want, and expect, problems fixed in a timely fashion, but the developers can't deliver on the quickening expectations of the players. The game, and development team, that finds a way to speed up the SDC will be The Next Big Thing, in my opinion.
A decent sized update every month is reasonable.
Jesus Christ...do you think they just pull content out their ass? Be real now. It takes time.
With all due respect, if nothing major has happened long before June, the massive exodus the game is experiencing right now is just going to get much worse.
All in all, I'm fairly satisfied with the changes they've announced.
Yes, they are adding in classes that were cut from launch (and they have always stated that this was their intention). Yes, I'm sure they have some iteration of the other cities sitting around somewhere already.
I see a different problem with the cities than simply saving them for a PR blitz though.
For whatever wack reason, they had initially not planned on having keep sieges and what not...which I think was a particularly boneheaded move, but anyway, after the testers railed against it (yes, I was one.) They added them in.
The key thing here..they ADDED THEM IN halfway through development, which means a lot changed in their vision for the game.
Originally they had all the cities planned, but the progression to them was based off of scenarios alone I believe. When they changed this, they changed the fundamental mechanics of the game.
I don't honestly think the problem is that the cities weren't ready, or that they are saving them for later, but that having multiple cities simply doesn't fit into the design anymore.
Seriously, look at how large of a player base is needed at the moment just to take the war to a single city on each side....
Now consider the amount of active players that would be needed to take the war to a different city for each race simultaneously...I doubt anyones servers could handle that many people, even if they could keep that many people, and we know that the endgame is jacked up as it is, with server lag and zone crashes. How could they handle 3x the players on each server to even accomodate a war of that scale if they can barely handle (or not handle, depending on your view) the war that they have now?
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to never see the other cities, or not see them until way down the road, whether they swap them out, or add them in to the game in addition to the current cities. Regardless of what they decide to do, or not do with the cities, they have a lot of fundamental things to change in ORvR prior to changing the endgame, including fixing the endgame, and modifying keep sieges so that they are more fun and challenging all around, and I'm fairly confident that they know this.
There is still a lot of work to be done, and I'm sure everyone is dissapointed at how things turned out to some extent, but they are improving, and I'm having fun as it is, and will have more fun with the things they are adding in.
Is Mythic perfect? Far from it. But I still have confidence that even though they have made some mistakes, they will continue to improve on them as best they can.
This is good news. Mythic has been and is a good company. I've been enjoying WAR since launch, and for me it keeps getting better.
This pretty sums up my feelings; I have a few "spare" days and got to play about twenty hours over two days, and run around enjoying the scenary.
Before launch, we were concerned about appearance (me too). Actually it's shaping up nicely, give the constraints Mythic put in by design (not to create overwhelming lag); and one of the things I don't see is posters moaning about the appearance (which personally I feed led evidence to the trolls not actually playing this game). Collectively, we also had a fit about classes and captial cities getting cut - however a reasonable person can see that a commerical company can only sink so much into development before having to make some money
So, we have all the classes back, including the improvement of Slayers over Hammers - well done there that was a major mistake not to included what is probably the most icon class in Warhammer (originally). The promise of a nice new dugeon, and Darkness Falls will forever etched in my mind as the most exciting dungeon ever - I hope Mythic can recreate the magic of that.
My design for this new dungeon would take into account the following, Mythic pay attention You could go in DF at level 20, so please make it a progressive dungeon that you can go into at, say, rank 15; one of the nicest bits was seeing all the level 50 running through, blating the odd level 20 mob for you and tossing a heal and a rez when necessary). Also, when the dungeon changed hands, you would get a 50 running around pwning low levels; this actually added to the excitement and danger of the place (and I'm really not fond of 50 pwning 20s). One of the best battles I have ever had was where a group of 30s managed to take out a 50. So please leave that in.
To concluded, WAR is going places with tonnes of investment -this is good. New stuff is coming - this is good (no matter whether is should have been in at the start). And if the event scenario is as good as the Riekland Factory - it will be excellent.
So VN boards are full of Daoc Vets and experienced beta testers who through tough love provide constructive critisism for the benefit of the game? While I am the casual gamer who is unable to provide "proper feedback"? Or am I a kiss butt too for not flaming him with gems of posts like those I read today like "100% epic fail", "another dissapointment" and "lol"? Yeah right, I don't think so buddy.
There is nothing constructive to 95% of the posts there. I did not call them haters, but there are most definetly trollers. They worry about the "meat and potatoes" of war? I dont think so. One third of the trollers (not posters who actually do something else other than whine) no longer play the game, the other third is simply dissapointed there were no patch notes nerfing witch elves and the last third are disgruntled DaoC vets who will never be happy until WAR is Daoc Redux. Nor should you make assumptions about how much I enjoy the game or understand the basic mechanics behind it.
Mark said he would post in VN exclusively because he thought that the posters there were friendly than the ones in WHA fyi. If he wants to continue to do so, it's up to him, but as he himself said:
"Thanks, but not really. Even if we did that (provide reports on development), there would still be people here complaining.
Mark "
I am amazed you consider that flaming constructive. I am also amused that you consider mmorpg.com a war-friendly site.
Oh, I'm sorry but I didn't mean to suggest (or have you think) that MMORPG.com is a WAR "friendly" site. I've found the site (mods) to be extremely neutral in most cases and have even said so. Darkfall is Crazytown right now with all the "White Border" stuff and they let that run 60 pages or so, so they are neutral all around. I don't see heavy handedness here.
The reason MJ posts on VN more (esp now) is that he burned bridges at WHA and tried to make the Mod there look like a fool to cover a lie, which was revealed anyway.
The mod was commenting on something someone said about official WAR forums coming, the mod said "no matter what MJ says, never say never". I figure the mod had heard some info, but he let it lie there. MJ came on 3 hrs later with "Never. I said it many times, blah blah blah. Is that clear enough?", essentially making the mod look like a liar. Couple months later, the Mod releases info that even though MJ had said on NUMEROUS occasions there would NEVER be forums, the mod said he got plenty of info saying otherwise. The mod was vindicated and MJ proved a liar because, lo and behold, guess who is having official forums this year? Thats why he don't post on WHA. He's been proven a liar, so now the Comm Coords handle the bulk of the chat.
I also don't mean to suggest you are a fanboi. Or that you have no gaming knowledge. Or that you are kissing Mythic's butt like you're looking for a job. I would hope you would take what I say about a general forum and not personalize it. I was pretty much responding to your question as to why he posts there. Which, btw, you failed to comment that MJ stated he got good ideas from VN posters. I think if he thought it was "95%" negative, he wouldn't bother so that part is definitely coming out of your eye, not his. I noticed you took half of what I provided about MJ in that quote, but left out where he said what I just stated why he posts at VN. Very shrewd move.
Anyways, you made an obviously naive statement saying you "don't understand why he'd post only on VN" (which btw, he doesn't post ONLY on VN) and I provided you with the quote from MJ telling you exactly why. Then you now claim you know why MJ posts there with this:
Originally posted by Amanautor
Mark said he would post in VN exclusively because he thought that the posters there were friendly than the ones in WHA fyi. If he wants to continue to do so, it's up to him, but as he himself said..
So you first claim in one post not to understand why he posts there, but now you claim to understand why he posts there. But you cannot find this quote where he supposedly said that? Okie dokey.
Dunno why you'd get all touchy over that.
Unless a WA mod admits to a burning of the bridges I woun't believe it happened. I've been an activ eposter in WA for several years and at no point did I get the sense that there was any burning of bridges.
Most people who played DAOC already know that VNboards were the preferred boards for MJ to post in. It was not surprise and came as no surprise that come launch he'd put his focus there.
Decisions in business can be reversed and should be reversed to account for changing market conditions. What is 100% sure now can change tomorrow. Any sane businessman of any type would do the same thing. There is no such thing as "I am a man of my word" when it comes to decision makingl; because decisions can change.
It's only the bad decision makers that refuse to change their stance on certain things. There's a difference between someone who lies and reversing a decision. I am just surprised how many people simply don't understand the difference.
Unless a WA mod admits to a burning of the bridges I woun't believe it happened. I've been an activ eposter in WA for several years and at no point did I get the sense that there was any burning of bridges. Most people who played DAOC already know that VNboards were the preferred boards for MJ to post in. It was not surprise and came as no surprise that come launch he'd put his focus there. Decisions in business can be reversed and should be reversed to account for changing market conditions. What is 100% sure now can change tomorrow. Any sane businessman of any type would do the same thing. There is no such thing as "I am a man of my word" when it comes to decision makingl; because decisions can change. It's only the bad decision makers that refuse to change their stance on certain things. There's a difference between someone who lies and reversing a decision. I am just surprised how many people simply don't understand the difference.
Since official forums are on the way whether he changed his mind, was forced, or just lied, probably not worth talking about anymore, at least for me. I've always said official forums were a great idea. Glad he finally saw the light as well.
Comments
ummm, good for them ?
Um, miss the OP much? That's what *he* talked about
I'm sorry but, did you not say this ?
"Read the VNboards, Doom haters seem to have no problem with this "big announcement"
"
I thought you did. You made a comment, I responded to the comment YOU MADE. Surely, you are able to comprehend the chain that ties my reply to your comment ?
ummm, good for you ?
So VN boards are full of Daoc Vets and experienced beta testers who through tough love provide constructive critisism for the benefit of the game? While I am the casual gamer who is unable to provide "proper feedback"? Or am I a kiss butt too for not flaming him with gems of posts like those I read today like "100% epic fail", "another dissapointment" and "lol"? Yeah right, I don't think so buddy.
There is nothing constructive to 95% of the posts there. I did not call them haters, but there are most definetly trollers. They worry about the "meat and potatoes" of war? I dont think so. One third of the trollers (not posters who actually do something else other than whine) no longer play the game, the other third is simply dissapointed there were no patch notes nerfing witch elves and the last third are disgruntled DaoC vets who will never be happy until WAR is Daoc Redux. Nor should you make assumptions about how much I enjoy the game or understand the basic mechanics behind it.
Mark said he would post in VN exclusively because he thought that the posters there were friendly than the ones in WHA fyi. If he wants to continue to do so, it's up to him, but as he himself said:
"Thanks, but not really. Even if we did that (provide reports on development), there would still be people here complaining.
Mark "
I am amazed you consider that flaming constructive. I am also amused that you consider mmorpg.com a war-friendly site.
I see your point, but I still find today's anouncement to be satisfactory. I can't think of something that Mark could have posted to prevent the unnecessary flaming that's going on right now. Most VN posters obviously wanted a long list of patch notes to discuss about, true, and I admit I expected patch notes too. But I found the news of adding an rvr dungeon more exciting myself. Besides, Mythic always tries to balance classes and constantly provides bugfixes so I don't see why should be the prime focus of an important anouncement anyway. An expasion arc, as Mark likes to call it, seems more important than yet another long list of patch notes. What should he do? Post patch notes that are yet untested? There are already interviews of upcoming rvr changes, and mark noted that the team is looking into CC changes and fortress layout issues. I can't see how he can be more specific than this.
I see both of your points.
I like the announcements a lot (specially the DF part... although I will wait and see what they do).
My main concern was and is oRvR. So seeing this:
"3) RvR changes/improvements. - This is a rather lengthy list which includes a new scenario, changes to the Zone control system, lots of Keep Upgrades (this is only our first pass at it), oRvR events and additional rewards for Zone and Campaign captures."
I think the Domination System is essential to force people to defend (and finally force people to stop PvEing the RvR!). Improving keeps (and siege which is not mentioned) is very important to me... I want a siege equal or better than DAoC's one... not worst.
So seeing that text was good. It showed me that my main concern is very important for them too.
But I was waiting a more elavorated announced... more detailed... as Pheace mentioned most people were waiting. I think that is what made people get real upset. I was waiting for that "lengthy list" to be listed! Other people were waiting for the list of bugs to be fixed. Orthers wanted the list of class balance to come. No, not the patch notes but a list of things that were been address.
More effort could had been done in the announcement.
We are giving them time and they were fixing things... but since xmas they stoped doing much so we were waiting for the "big" announcement. And the big annoucement sounded... non-detailed... and we really were waiting for details.
I think the reaction is unfair and very "dramatic" (people love drama) but it's understandable.
I am still having fun in WAR. I will still play WAR. But Mythic is running out of time. The detailed list MJ didnt provide today will cost him some accounts. But if the next two months end up been a dissapointement... it will cost him a huge part of the population, imo.
For now, I am rolling alts (i suffer from altitis) and doing roaming groups in T4. But it wont keep me going forever... I need sieging and more appealing RvR. In this moment, for me, DAoC's RvR is still far superior than WAR's one.
So, imo, in the next two months they should address a very big amount of bugs (amount totally subjective for each of us, of course), put the 2 classes, set the Domination System and finally fix the Fortress problem (wihout cap or with a cap enough high not to leave many out) and they should address some class balance problems. I think that's their main plan but we will have to see if they deliver.
Oh, I'm sorry but I didn't mean to suggest (or have you think) that MMORPG.com is a WAR "friendly" site. I've found the site (mods) to be extremely neutral in most cases and have even said so. Darkfall is Crazytown right now with all the "White Border" stuff and they let that run 60 pages or so, so they are neutral all around. I don't see heavy handedness here.
The reason MJ posts on VN more (esp now) is that he burned bridges at WHA and tried to make the Mod there look like a fool to cover a lie, which was revealed anyway.
The mod was commenting on something someone said about official WAR forums coming, the mod said "no matter what MJ says, never say never". I figure the mod had heard some info, but he let it lie there. MJ came on 3 hrs later with "Never. I said it many times, blah blah blah. Is that clear enough?", essentially making the mod look like a liar. Couple months later, the Mod releases info that even though MJ had said on NUMEROUS occasions there would NEVER be forums, the mod said he got plenty of info saying otherwise. The mod was vindicated and MJ proved a liar because, lo and behold, guess who is having official forums this year? Thats why he don't post on WHA. He's been proven a liar, so now the Comm Coords handle the bulk of the chat.
I also don't mean to suggest you are a fanboi. Or that you have no gaming knowledge. Or that you are kissing Mythic's butt like you're looking for a job. I would hope you would take what I say about a general forum and not personalize it. I was pretty much responding to your question as to why he posts there. Which, btw, you failed to comment that MJ stated he got good ideas from VN posters. I think if he thought it was "95%" negative, he wouldn't bother so that part is definitely coming out of your eye, not his. I noticed you took half of what I provided about MJ in that quote, but left out where he said what I just stated why he posts at VN. Very shrewd move.
So you first claim in one post not to understand why he posts there, but now you claim to understand why he posts there. But you cannot find this quote where he supposedly said that? Okie dokey.Anyways, you made an obviously naive statement saying you "don't understand why he'd post only on VN" (which btw, he doesn't post ONLY on VN) and I provided you with the quote from MJ telling you exactly why. Then you now claim you know why MJ posts there with this:
Dunno why you'd get all touchy over that.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Awesome
Waaaaaaaagggghhhhhh!
ummm, good for them ?
Um, miss the OP much? That's what *he* talked about
I'm sorry but, did you not say this ?
"Read the VNboards, Doom haters seem to have no problem with this "big announcement"
"
I thought you did. You made a comment, I responded to the comment YOU MADE. Surely, you are able to comprehend the chain that ties my reply to your comment ?
ummm, good for you ?
I feel sorry for you if thats the best reply you got after being put in your place.
Haha, what's sad is someone like you who goes through the trouble of making accounts like that to copy other people like an 8 year old actually thinks he's going to be taken seriously, buh-bye
For me that news feels like a half full/half empty glass situation.As many stated all these were supposed to be ingame at launch.The Land of Dead dungeon will definitely be a plus but what about the whole T4 boredomness?The ctds?
Like I said in another thread, MJ pulls out his "jokers" each time the situation starts to turn sour and people just rolled back to play their beloved class.
Anyway the game is getting where it was supposed to be,I won't resub now but will wait till July to see how things evolved.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
The phrase 'same shit, different smell' comes to mind.
O_o o_O
I hope some of the next Jokers we'll see are capital cities for the other racial pairing. Those I look forward to seeing in the game. And of course the addition of destructable / scalable keep walls as well, like in DAoC.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...
What the addition of 2 more classes will add to the gameplay?
I don't think that the lack of classes is the biggest problem for WAR.
Yes nice add, but nothing really groundbreaking.
If you think about it, those 2 classes were supposed to be launched at release, so they are months late.
I don't want to be a doomsayer, I just don't see why haters should be worried about this news.
Actually those 2 classes were not supposed to be in game at launch. The Choppa and the Hammerer were supposed to be released at launch. You forget about a lil fella called Slayer, he took the Hammerer's place.
I admit it was a small technicality but I did get ya on that technicality. lol
I'm currently not playing...but from everything I've read it seems Mythic is doing a great job. I look forward to sometime down the line resubscribing once the game is a little more rounded out and they have the last race cities in.
What the addition of 2 more classes will add to the gameplay?
I don't think that the lack of classes is the biggest problem for WAR.
Yes nice add, but nothing really groundbreaking.
If you think about it, those 2 classes were supposed to be launched at release, so they are months late.
I don't want to be a doomsayer, I just don't see why haters should be worried about this news.
Actually those 2 classes were not supposed to be in game at launch. The Choppa and the Hammerer were supposed to be released at launch. You forget about a lil fella called Slayer, he took the Hammerer's place.
I admit it was a small technicality but I did get ya on that technicality. lol
Then if they had cut 12 classes before launch and put them back in now, you would be a genius. Just think of the point you are trying to take credit for? You are fighting over a pile of poop and are happy about it.
I agree, those 2 classes are nothing to brag about, they should be at launch, but they are also releasing new RvR area and many other things.
Sure its nothing unheard, but they are definately good aditions to the game and ppl should be happy with just what it is, instead of ranting about what should or shouldnt have been released at launch.
Its a game, if u like it, excellent, have fun, if you dont or you think you dont agree with the game politics, just move on, and find yourself another game and have fun!
Oh wow did not think this would reach 5 pages, sure some of this is old news in a way but it shows that mythic intends to show a faster response to thier customers, also with the news of an official forums thats a big step and the combat review patch (the careers overhaul) thats nice.
This is good news. Mythic has been and is a good company. I've been enjoying WAR since launch, and for me it keeps getting better.
instead of adding a new dungeon what they need to do instead is take away the current method in capturing a city and do this instead.
for zone locks, they start as soon as the keeps and bos are all captured in the current zone by one side ,also that zone has a timer for when the zone that would be locked is locked . when it is locked , lets say a good 2 hours, the zone that then becomes unlocked next is then contested. if the zone that was contested gets won over by the opposing side and is held for 2 hours, then the last zone that was locked then becomes unlocked while the zone that was defended becomes locked for 3 hours if by then the zone that was currently captured ,the fortresses can then become contessed while the last zone becomes locked for 3 hours and is on a 3 hour time limit to be captured , when the time limit for when the fortress can be claimed there is a initial 2 hour time limit for the other side to try to recapture it, if they fail to do so then the city can be sieged .no more need for scenarios to be the deciding factor if a zone locks or not and when that side finally captures a fortress , only 1 fotrtress needed. then and only then a city siege can take place, and the burning and rapeing and pilaging can take place, best armor, best weapons, best sets end gear to come from doing the city siege and killing the king.
whoooooa. that was a lot to say. hope that makes sence.
this is return would cause more people to particapate in pvp /orvr.
ya cant argue with this . the whole point of the game is to kill the king of the enemy . why not make the root towards this curent method be the way ?
and dont give me none of this bs order is outnumbered . cause its about even on both sides.
the only reason it may seem like order is outnumbered is because they never show up for a fight unless there is no resistance .
Destruction FTW !!!!!!
Dark Elf Realm pride !!!!!!!
WAAAAAAAAAGH
The problem that Mythic has faced, from Beta and now, is that the development process is just too slow. They didn't have enough time to include what they wanted at release. Look at the timelines for this new content - April, May, June? Even if it's on time, which history shows as not very likely, that's 1/3 to 1/2 a YEAR ahead.
Players want, and expect, problems fixed in a timely fashion, but the developers can't deliver on the quickening expectations of the players. The game, and development team, that finds a way to speed up the SDC will be The Next Big Thing, in my opinion.
Avatars are people too
A decent sized update every month is reasonable.
Jesus Christ...do you think they just pull content out their ass? Be real now. It takes time.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
A decent sized update every month is reasonable.
Jesus Christ...do you think they just pull content out their ass? Be real now. It takes time.
With all due respect, if nothing major has happened long before June, the massive exodus the game is experiencing right now is just going to get much worse.
All in all, I'm fairly satisfied with the changes they've announced.
Yes, they are adding in classes that were cut from launch (and they have always stated that this was their intention). Yes, I'm sure they have some iteration of the other cities sitting around somewhere already.
I see a different problem with the cities than simply saving them for a PR blitz though.
For whatever wack reason, they had initially not planned on having keep sieges and what not...which I think was a particularly boneheaded move, but anyway, after the testers railed against it (yes, I was one.) They added them in.
The key thing here..they ADDED THEM IN halfway through development, which means a lot changed in their vision for the game.
Originally they had all the cities planned, but the progression to them was based off of scenarios alone I believe. When they changed this, they changed the fundamental mechanics of the game.
I don't honestly think the problem is that the cities weren't ready, or that they are saving them for later, but that having multiple cities simply doesn't fit into the design anymore.
Seriously, look at how large of a player base is needed at the moment just to take the war to a single city on each side....
Now consider the amount of active players that would be needed to take the war to a different city for each race simultaneously...I doubt anyones servers could handle that many people, even if they could keep that many people, and we know that the endgame is jacked up as it is, with server lag and zone crashes. How could they handle 3x the players on each server to even accomodate a war of that scale if they can barely handle (or not handle, depending on your view) the war that they have now?
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to never see the other cities, or not see them until way down the road, whether they swap them out, or add them in to the game in addition to the current cities. Regardless of what they decide to do, or not do with the cities, they have a lot of fundamental things to change in ORvR prior to changing the endgame, including fixing the endgame, and modifying keep sieges so that they are more fun and challenging all around, and I'm fairly confident that they know this.
There is still a lot of work to be done, and I'm sure everyone is dissapointed at how things turned out to some extent, but they are improving, and I'm having fun as it is, and will have more fun with the things they are adding in.
Is Mythic perfect? Far from it. But I still have confidence that even though they have made some mistakes, they will continue to improve on them as best they can.
This pretty sums up my feelings; I have a few "spare" days and got to play about twenty hours over two days, and run around enjoying the scenary.
Before launch, we were concerned about appearance (me too). Actually it's shaping up nicely, give the constraints Mythic put in by design (not to create overwhelming lag); and one of the things I don't see is posters moaning about the appearance (which personally I feed led evidence to the trolls not actually playing this game). Collectively, we also had a fit about classes and captial cities getting cut - however a reasonable person can see that a commerical company can only sink so much into development before having to make some money
So, we have all the classes back, including the improvement of Slayers over Hammers - well done there that was a major mistake not to included what is probably the most icon class in Warhammer (originally). The promise of a nice new dugeon, and Darkness Falls will forever etched in my mind as the most exciting dungeon ever - I hope Mythic can recreate the magic of that.
My design for this new dungeon would take into account the following, Mythic pay attention
You could go in DF at level 20, so please make it a progressive dungeon that you can go into at, say, rank 15; one of the nicest bits was seeing all the level 50 running through, blating the odd level 20 mob for you and tossing a heal and a rez when necessary). Also, when the dungeon changed hands, you would get a 50 running around pwning low levels; this actually added to the excitement and danger of the place (and I'm really not fond of 50 pwning 20s). One of the best battles I have ever had was where a group of 30s managed to take out a 50. So please leave that in.
To concluded, WAR is going places with tonnes of investment -this is good. New stuff is coming - this is good (no matter whether is should have been in at the start). And if the event scenario is as good as the Riekland Factory - it will be excellent.
Oh, I'm sorry but I didn't mean to suggest (or have you think) that MMORPG.com is a WAR "friendly" site. I've found the site (mods) to be extremely neutral in most cases and have even said so. Darkfall is Crazytown right now with all the "White Border" stuff and they let that run 60 pages or so, so they are neutral all around. I don't see heavy handedness here.
The reason MJ posts on VN more (esp now) is that he burned bridges at WHA and tried to make the Mod there look like a fool to cover a lie, which was revealed anyway.
The mod was commenting on something someone said about official WAR forums coming, the mod said "no matter what MJ says, never say never". I figure the mod had heard some info, but he let it lie there. MJ came on 3 hrs later with "Never. I said it many times, blah blah blah. Is that clear enough?", essentially making the mod look like a liar. Couple months later, the Mod releases info that even though MJ had said on NUMEROUS occasions there would NEVER be forums, the mod said he got plenty of info saying otherwise. The mod was vindicated and MJ proved a liar because, lo and behold, guess who is having official forums this year? Thats why he don't post on WHA. He's been proven a liar, so now the Comm Coords handle the bulk of the chat.
I also don't mean to suggest you are a fanboi. Or that you have no gaming knowledge. Or that you are kissing Mythic's butt like you're looking for a job. I would hope you would take what I say about a general forum and not personalize it. I was pretty much responding to your question as to why he posts there. Which, btw, you failed to comment that MJ stated he got good ideas from VN posters. I think if he thought it was "95%" negative, he wouldn't bother so that part is definitely coming out of your eye, not his. I noticed you took half of what I provided about MJ in that quote, but left out where he said what I just stated why he posts at VN. Very shrewd move.
So you first claim in one post not to understand why he posts there, but now you claim to understand why he posts there. But you cannot find this quote where he supposedly said that? Okie dokey.Anyways, you made an obviously naive statement saying you "don't understand why he'd post only on VN" (which btw, he doesn't post ONLY on VN) and I provided you with the quote from MJ telling you exactly why. Then you now claim you know why MJ posts there with this:
Dunno why you'd get all touchy over that.
Unless a WA mod admits to a burning of the bridges I woun't believe it happened. I've been an activ eposter in WA for several years and at no point did I get the sense that there was any burning of bridges.
Most people who played DAOC already know that VNboards were the preferred boards for MJ to post in. It was not surprise and came as no surprise that come launch he'd put his focus there.
Decisions in business can be reversed and should be reversed to account for changing market conditions. What is 100% sure now can change tomorrow. Any sane businessman of any type would do the same thing. There is no such thing as "I am a man of my word" when it comes to decision makingl; because decisions can change.
It's only the bad decision makers that refuse to change their stance on certain things. There's a difference between someone who lies and reversing a decision. I am just surprised how many people simply don't understand the difference.
Since official forums are on the way whether he changed his mind, was forced, or just lied, probably not worth talking about anymore, at least for me. I've always said official forums were a great idea. Glad he finally saw the light as well.
"TO MICHAEL!"