I really like the idea of the Shared Death Penalty. I think it works in everyone's favor and is an incentive to pay attention to what you are doing.
Many of us will be new to the game and all the 'tricks' to playing it. I won't be getting upset with people who get me killed as I'll likely return the favor more than I care to. lol
Besides, it's a game. It's a new game. It's a new idea. Why not see how it works out?
In my MMORPG exp. some classes just die more then others. One that comes to mind from EQLive is chanters. After mezing all the additional mobs that came on a pull they would hold a ton of agroo. And if the tank didn't take a little time and taunt 3 or 4 times before braking the mez the mob would go over and eat the chanter. Now as a casting class chanteres never had more then 600-800 HP at end game and would drop really quick. My ex GF played a chanter and even in really good groups would die atleast 2 times a day on endgame content. Which in meny cases what 2 more times then everyone else.
With the shared xp debt everyone is responsable for the well being of the group. There's not more looking out for number one. You take care of everyone and do what you can. The shared xp also makes it so that there will not be a single class that dies less then everyone else making them level faster. In alot of ways the xp debt is there as a balinceing tool. To keep the field even... Anyways, just got home from work and am heading to bed, hope that made sence. Late!
if there will be proffessions that are more likely to die
and you can be sure there will be, they will have it harder finding teams as they have a greater chance of giving Shared Death Penalty to the party they join.
Deathseeker, I understand your point, but having played the game up to a 15 Level Sorcerer with not as many hitpoints as tanks, etc., I was always welcomed because of the high level damage I could deal (plus I tried not to be a moron and pull too many mobs on our group).
Also, the Heroic Opportunities sometimes require a caster to make the chain more powerful (BTW, I found this to be a really cool feature).
On another interesting note about death: a priest-type has the ability to cast on any party member a special item that allows them to resurrect one player in the group (I forget what it's called and I'm not sure what level it requires). This was very convenient and I was in quite a few groups where we used this frequently.
Originally posted by TalionNelson On another interesting note about death: a priest-type has the ability to cast on any party member a special item that allows them to resurrect one player in the group (I forget what it's called and I'm not sure what level it requires). This was very convenient and I was in quite a few groups where we used this frequently.
This was called Favor of the Phoenix (changed the name to Divine Awakening at last spell re-vamp). It's only allowed to raise a priest type person. I'm not sure it can be used on other party members like tanks.
I'm on the fence about the death xp penalty. I certainly see the plus side to it. Keeping ppl on their toes, less AFKers and it does make the battles more intense.
But like any good idea it does have it drawbacks. One bad experience i had with this system was:
A group i was in decided to move our camp and go kill some giants. As we made the journey across commonlands ppl in the group started picking up aggro (myself included) because the leader of the group dragged us through the mobs. the group scatters. the leader had 3 ppl with him and me and another player tried to catch up to them but they wouldnt wait. the second it looked like we were going to die they just kicked us out of the group.
Now granted, this is not the kind of group i really wanted to be in, disorganized as it was. But i can see this happening to other ppl in other groups. "Crap he's gonna die, kick him." and then reinvite him afterwards, especially in "instancing".
I just think this will bring an unnessasary amount of stress to groups that will make the game less fun and casual to more of a militant style of play...u stay here and do this, u go here and do that, no stupid not like that...heheh well u know what i mean.
Only time will tell.
A.K.A. Wrython
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Originally posted by TalionNelson That being said, the debt expires over real-life time, too. I don't know how long exactly, but I had logged out with experience debt and didn't have it when I logged back in over 24 hours later. (I read this on the beta boards, but honestly, I didn't pay much attention to them since I was too busy playing the game).
That is a really cool idea, I didn't know debt went away over time (I would have liked that in CoH at times, heh). I tend to be an alt-aholic, so that sounds good to me...I can just play an alt for a while if I rack up too much debt. Nice.
-Gobbo Knight
"Tie two birds together...they have four wings, but cannot fly." -Blind man, Circle of Iron
-Gobbo Knight
"Tie two birds together...they have four wings, but cannot fly." -Blind man, Circle of Iron
Originally posted by remyburke I'm on the fence about the death xp penalty. I certainly see the plus side to it. Keeping ppl on their toes, less AFKers and it does make the battles more intense. But like any good idea it does have it drawbacks. One bad experience i had with this system was: A group i was in decided to move our camp and go kill some giants. As we made the journey across commonlands ppl in the group started picking up aggro (myself included) because the leader of the group dragged us through the mobs. the group scatters. the leader had 3 ppl with him and me and another player tried to catch up to them but they wouldnt wait. the second it looked like we were going to die they just kicked us out of the group. Now granted, this is not the kind of group i really wanted to be in, disorganized as it was. But i can see this happening to other ppl in other groups. "Crap he's gonna die, kick him." and then reinvite him afterwards, especially in "instancing". I just think this will bring an unnessasary amount of stress to groups that will make the game less fun and casual to more of a militant style of play...u stay here and do this, u go here and do that, no stupid not like that...heheh well u know what i mean. Only time will tell.
A.K.A. Wrython
if my group kicked me and tried to re-invite me, i'd only have this response:
Exemple: In old EQ, a necromancer with FD should still have it own single self penalty, not sharing in anyway. I dont see why a cleric should focus on healing the necromancer who can FD to save his hide rather then focus on keeping the group in health, I dont see either why the say necromancer should be affected by the fact the tank or the healer is lame. The main issue of this resolve around this argument...a soloer, that add to a group but is still...a soloer...should NOT be draw into more then they are...unless you want to disgust them completely of the grouping system. Why should a rogue pay a XP debt because the puller, the tank or the cleric is lame? Each class have their edges, and you remove a STRONG edge from the support/solo group members.
I agree that the puller, the tank and the healer should be linked completely, but the support who have no role in this? *shrug* Why play a FD or a evade/stealth class? To save 1/6 of the debt(on a group wipe)? Hardly worth such a feature, rather get something else.
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Many, many years as a front line fighter in groups I can tell you this, is a wonderful addition. It promotes teamwork within a group, and know the debt is spread out equally among tanks, healers, rogues, bards, etc. If you have a jerk in your group, kick them. I had to do this only once or twice in Beta. Sure, you will get exp debt from others in your group, but having a group will none-the-less let you adventure much further than solo attempts will, allowing you a much larger exp reward in the long run. The debt is easy to work through, especially when in a good grouping. Thsi game has amazed me with the true "teamwork" feel to grouping. You come to enjoy and quite honestly "need" some of varying professions in your group. Too many of one can be very bad, as I have seen with tanks & magic users alike. Each profession, in grouping in EQ II, has been made to compliment the others quite well. Having the shared exp debt only promotes teamwork. I time and time again gave away many looted items to the professions taht needed it in my group, when I won a lotto, for free. I also was the beneficiary of the same. It all boils down to your grouping experience. Pay attention to the people you group with, add friends, ignore morons, and your time spent in Norrath will be most enjoyed. I am very excited to log in my pre-created characters and start fresh. If you don;t like the shared exp debt, then see hopw far you can get solo. I was stuck in my beserker quest, on the last mission, since no one would group with me. There was 1 day left and I did not see my friends online like I did prior to that. Oh well, the chance to do it again will be in a week or so, having obtained that lvl in about 10 days in Beta.
Comments
I really like the idea of the Shared Death Penalty. I think it works in everyone's favor and is an incentive to pay attention to what you are doing.
Many of us will be new to the game and all the 'tricks' to playing it. I won't be getting upset with people who get me killed as I'll likely return the favor more than I care to. lol
Besides, it's a game. It's a new game. It's a new idea. Why not see how it works out?
Maybe I'm just wierd.
A Voice From Within
A Voice From Within
In my MMORPG exp. some classes just die more then others. One that comes to mind from EQLive is chanters. After mezing all the additional mobs that came on a pull they would hold a ton of agroo. And if the tank didn't take a little time and taunt 3 or 4 times before braking the mez the mob would go over and eat the chanter. Now as a casting class chanteres never had more then 600-800 HP at end game and would drop really quick. My ex GF played a chanter and even in really good groups would die atleast 2 times a day on endgame content. Which in meny cases what 2 more times then everyone else.
With the shared xp debt everyone is responsable for the well being of the group. There's not more looking out for number one. You take care of everyone and do what you can. The shared xp also makes it so that there will not be a single class that dies less then everyone else making them level faster. In alot of ways the xp debt is there as a balinceing tool. To keep the field even... Anyways, just got home from work and am heading to bed, hope that made sence. Late!
well it looks like most find this feature good or at least
interesting. Myself finds the Shared Death Penalty is not
something that i would like to reach the final game...
Why ?
if there will be proffessions that are more likely to die
and you can be sure there will be, they will have it harder finding teams
as they have a greater chance of giving Shared Death Penalty to
the party they join.
Deathseeker, I understand your point, but having played the game up to a 15 Level Sorcerer with not as many hitpoints as tanks, etc., I was always welcomed because of the high level damage I could deal (plus I tried not to be a moron and pull too many mobs on our group).
Also, the Heroic Opportunities sometimes require a caster to make the chain more powerful (BTW, I found this to be a really cool feature).
On another interesting note about death: a priest-type has the ability to cast on any party member a special item that allows them to resurrect one player in the group (I forget what it's called and I'm not sure what level it requires). This was very convenient and I was in quite a few groups where we used this frequently.
I'm on the fence about the death xp penalty. I certainly see the plus side to it. Keeping ppl on their toes, less AFKers and it does make the battles more intense.
But like any good idea it does have it drawbacks. One bad experience i had with this system was:
A group i was in decided to move our camp and go kill some giants. As we made the journey across commonlands ppl in the group started picking up aggro (myself included) because the leader of the group dragged us through the mobs. the group scatters. the leader had 3 ppl with him and me and another player tried to catch up to them but they wouldnt wait. the second it looked like we were going to die they just kicked us out of the group.
Now granted, this is not the kind of group i really wanted to be in, disorganized as it was. But i can see this happening to other ppl in other groups. "Crap he's gonna die, kick him." and then reinvite him afterwards, especially in "instancing".
I just think this will bring an unnessasary amount of stress to groups that will make the game less fun and casual to more of a militant style of play...u stay here and do this, u go here and do that, no stupid not like that...heheh well u know what i mean.
Only time will tell.
A.K.A. Wrython
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
-Gobbo Knight
"Tie two birds together...they have four wings, but cannot fly." -Blind man, Circle of Iron
-Gobbo Knight
"Tie two birds together...they have four wings, but cannot fly." -Blind man, Circle of Iron
if my group kicked me and tried to re-invite me, i'd only have this response:
screw you
Some class should be completely excluded from it.
Exemple: In old EQ, a necromancer with FD should still have it own single self penalty, not sharing in anyway. I dont see why a cleric should focus on healing the necromancer who can FD to save his hide rather then focus on keeping the group in health, I dont see either why the say necromancer should be affected by the fact the tank or the healer is lame. The main issue of this resolve around this argument...a soloer, that add to a group but is still...a soloer...should NOT be draw into more then they are...unless you want to disgust them completely of the grouping system. Why should a rogue pay a XP debt because the puller, the tank or the cleric is lame? Each class have their edges, and you remove a STRONG edge from the support/solo group members.
I agree that the puller, the tank and the healer should be linked completely, but the support who have no role in this? *shrug* Why play a FD or a evade/stealth class? To save 1/6 of the debt(on a group wipe)? Hardly worth such a feature, rather get something else.
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
~Yeti
Desolation Guild Officer - http://www.desolation-guild.org/
EQ II Beta Tester
~Yeti
I love the idea, everyone in the group is at least partly responsible for someone dying. Bring it on.
Ulfaro
"Mature gamers from the Pacific"
http://www.californiagamer.com