Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
So DF IS level based then
1 out of every 25 skills points actually nets you a gain..with the other 24 points beign worthless other than a stepping stone towards the next set of worthless points to gain. this, intrinsically, IS a level system wrapped behind the facade of having no levels.
why AV why!
things that NEED to change atm:
running skill increasing when you havnt actually moved. COMON pokemon countered this form of abuse with their daycare center, you actually had to move from the same spot to get any exp. if you havnt moved out of a 5ft radius then you clearly are running into a wall to cheat/macro
spell skill gains without a target - WTF? what else needs to be said, if a spell isnt sucessfully hitting someone how can you gain a skill? simple blindness
lack of bot protection - im sure this was touted by Tasos my personal hero of 2008 (for being possibly the best spin doctor ever) as being something that was totally sorted and chats wouldnt happen at all.
too many things macroable with a huge drive to macro them - well i suppose atleast you could say that if its that boring people want to macro it then being able to isnt so bad - but the games been done for 8years how can they fail to tell what is fun
complete lack of proper beta testing - comon this is inarguable. the only people ive seen reviewing the game all say the same thing 'ive been playing for just over a month' profesional testers mite be able to find the bugs but they are no good at knowing whats fun they have the wrong mindset different to actuall players. all MMOs need months and months of good old fashioned player testing. theres a reason its a tried and tested method.
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
Comments
Not real positive about this, but from what i have seen the skill system is pretty near what the original UO system was.
As far as macros go, I read somewhere that there is game data that is stored client side that shouldn't be. I have yet to get anyone to really confirm this though.
DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness
ive read a number of botters and more specifically programmers say taht an unusually large amount is done client side (bad bad bad never trust the players literally the number 1 rule in mmo creation)
anyway i never really played UO but to advertise the game as level free when it is so blatently hidden behind a worthless shallow skill set is just poor. it is a levelling system if there are gains which take no effect on you.
again why AV why! i cant wait for someone to try and defend this tbh
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
For the most part yes. If a player has level 0 skill in 2h sword and a rank 20 weapon that player will do more damage than a player with level 25 skill and a rank 0 weapon. The weapon just decays faster if a player doesn't have the appropriate skill to use it.
way to completely miss my point!
if a skill does not gain in actually ability (OUTPUT) from 1-24 points, gains a bit at 25 points then carries on not gaining any output from 26-49 points this is EXACTLY the same as a level based system where the exp between level 1 and 2 is 'worthless' until it pops over into lvl 2.
thus making darkfall level based despite advertisement otherwise. stop trying to avoid the topic!
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
This will be my 1st and last post about Darkfall...
An MMORPG can't be done as sandbox at all. The RPG part of the MMO requires some growth in the character. And growth can only be obtained by adding levels to something, either that be skills, or phisical levels as we're used to...
I realy can't beleave that most ppl fail to see that
Its not a level system because A. there are no character levels, and B. There are no level restrictions.
Is there an increased numerical value that benefits the player over time?
yes ofcourse, its an MMO after all, but they are skill based, not level based.
-Darkstar
Yes, that's how the skill system works. There are a few exceptions. For instance, every magic school has 4 sub skills - one for duration, one for intensity, one for mana efficiency, and one for casting time.
Mana efficiency, at the very least, I can confirm to be .25% per point (so, 25% off at 100 skill), and it progresses in real time. In fact, I think it even advances on the tenths of points, and not just whole points.
Most of the "major" skills, though, really only see any appreciable difference at 25/50/75/100, and the rest of the points don't make a lick of difference.
Reality is any MMO has level's, even UO as without them there could be no character progression.
Just games like DF and UO don't have a single linear progresiion, rather multiple at the same time (aka skills)
I need a new MMO world to call home as Tom Chilton keeps destroying them
Edit: I miss read the OP, my bad.
I responded to the title not the actual post.
Delete!
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
"spell skill gains without a target - WTF? what else needs to be said, if a spell isnt sucessfully hitting someone how can you gain a skill? simple blindness"
Err no, use some common sense. Casting the spell is what makes you get better and casting the spell, not hitting somone, thats just the end product.
see it like this:
"if i were a mage in a real-life-fantasy-esqe-world, sat in my wizards tower casting a spell over and over to "perfect" it the way i would be doing that is to cast the spell over and over untill i had perfected it, you don't need to leave the castle, to me that is way more immersive, also you could have people practicing like knights of old did on each other in the castle grounds to skill-up without risking theirlife everytime."
hope that makes more sense on why magic should have to hit to skill up.
I think you're missing the point, Reizla.
You can have growth without a level system. The problem they're having is that some of the gains are meaningless. You don't actually experience an increase in character ability until every 25th point. There are games where you see improvement with every skill point gained. You'll notice slightly more damage output or accuracy, etc. In DF it doesn't work that way, you don't see any gains 24% of the time. It's basically an exp bar that shows every 4% of a level. It hasn't hindered me from wanting to play, though. I hope they implement some sort of gain for every skill point gained, even if its miniscule. I don't know the significance of a 25th point gain, since I'm not in the beta. If it's anything substantial, they can break that gain up into 25 increments of smaller, less significant increases that add up to the same substantial one you would have gotten at 25. Again, I haven't played the game, yet, so I don't know how much this will bother me, but I doubt it will be all that much. Here's hoping they change this to satisfy the playerbase. From what I've read about their patches, they seem to be listening to what their target demographic wants.
the stupidity on these boards never cease to amaze me....
it was a successfully cast, that's why? I guess spells can fizzle...aka not go off at all...
I have to assume that there are none-damage spells to...and I guess I can gain skill from those to.
You know its funny to see people compare DF's skill system to UO's skill system. UO has a true skill system where a point in a skill effects that skill. Where DF uses a system where only set points in a skill has an effect on the skills 25/50/100/ect for DF. The two systems are in noway similar other then that they are open ended as far as you can pick just about anything you want to within the skills.
Also UO is still byfar way ahead of DF in sheer gameplay. UO has a open ended system where you can place houses anywhere in the gameworld you want (pending its not in a city or a locked area and that you own the land rights to the area). DF you have fixed spots to build on and you can only build certain buildings on certain spots.
UO has loads of quests ranging from escorting to crafting to dungeon crawl quests. DF you have about 10-15 tutorial quests and thats it. Not a single other quest in the game.
It's going to be funny come release day and all the hacks hit the net. I think the funnest two are going to be the teleporting hacks and the wall walk hacks. As all collision data is stored client side only, anyone that has the hack will be able to walk right through trees, buildings, other people and mobs.
I love the idea of DF and the concept for a modern remake of UO in true 3d. But DF is the worst Implementation of it ever. I won't be the one to say I told you so, since I will let the game do that itself come release. People thought AoC's and Vanguards release was bad. Ohh this is about to go down in history.
I disagree. Standing in place casting a spell at the sky to level up a magic skill demonstrates bad game design, IMO. All it does is encourage laziness, macroing and botting in lieu of actually playing the game.
Using your argument, any spastic tool flailing a sword about without actually hitting anything should go up in skill level? Practice does NOT make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect, meaning that you have to practice something succesfully and apply it in order to get better. You should level up skills by successfully accomplishing a task, whether it be running, actually hitting an enemy with a sword, actually hitting an enemy with a spell, etc... In your example, that would mean actually using a target for practice. If you were using a target range, I'd agree with you.
~Ripper
Ryzom isn't a non targeting FPS combat system.
Eve isn't a non targetting FPS combat syste.
Both of these games are auto attack, hot bar, button queing combat that is determined by what skills, and gear (items) your character has, and very little to do with player skill.
Skill based system has nothing to do with the combat mechanics.
The whole idea in DF is that a new player with a skill of 10 is supposed to have a shot against someone with a skill level of 100
It takes more then just leveling skills to make you better.
Having better armor, weapons, and skills is only supposed to provide an advantage not give you a default I win, and if this is what you expect to happen you're probably going to be really disapointed when someone who hasn't played as long as you comes in and murders you becaue the are simply better at twitch styled FPS combat then you are.
The draw of a sandbox is to have a wide open world were I can be and do whatever I want.
DF is sandboxish in, but not a true sandbox in the sence that UO and Eve are sandboxes.
DF needs more then just combat, harveting, and crafting to be a full fledge sandbox. As it stands it's simply a skill based, FPS, pvp, and conquest game.
Honestly I think that anyone that would argue that others should just STFU, should take thier own advise.
The game is in beta, you idiot. QFT.
UO: "Land rights"? Since when? (not paid attention last few years)
As to the collision data in DF being in the client, if you are right all i can is "LoL muppets"
I need a new MMO world to call home as Tom Chilton keeps destroying them
It's also coming out in 5 days. If anyone thinks that DF will radically change between now and the 25th, they're kidding themselves.
There are no miracle patches. What is in the game now is what will be there when the game goes live. That's how it always is.
Exactly.. And people should treat it as such..
Exactly.. And people should treat it as such..
it should be treated and judged by what it was and still is advertised as.
edit: any way i LOVE the people trying to justify macroing through realism. grow some balls and admit you are going to macro it to the max. if you can whack a spell into the air and gain points why cant you flail your sword wildly until you also magically gain points.
anybody care to adress the horrendous amounts of calculations done client side? really? any takers? just going to sit and take it i suppose. ready for how many cheaters that will bring to the game? please, please save yoursleves the embaressment if you think of saying no-one will cheat and it will get dealt with.
beta testers are very open about how they cheated and nothing came of it. if AV were really on the ball they would have stopped the cheats working but left the cheaters in to come up with new ones to fix them too..but alas no reports of bans or even basic cheats that stopped working
no-one for the running on the spot exploit? do you guys just want an exploit fest is that where the crucial differnce between fanboys and people are? i really want this game to succeed, im not mindlessly bashing it, but obviously flaws are just that.
i said before and i really think its 100% true, nobody on the DF team has played an mmo since they started work on DF
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
LoL tard muffin I was bolstering your point.
Yes, and it is level based for both the character and skills. Skill levels are at 25, 50, 75, 100, and this where you will see small increments in damage and the levels that new spells open up at. Character levels are at every weapon rank; 20, 40, 60, 80, 100. A player that is wearing a full set of rank 20 gear will do 4 - 5 times more damage on a person using rank 0 gear.
I don't see a player of rank 0 having a chance against a rank 20, and there is no way a newb has any chance against a vet sporting rank 40+ gear.
It's also coming out in 5 days. If anyone thinks that DF will radically change between now and the 25th, they're kidding themselves.
There are no miracle patches. What is in the game now is what will be there when the game goes live. That's how it always is.
It doesn't need a radical change. They just need to change the multiplier for how skills progress for this problem to be solved. And my guess would be that it will happen in the next 5 days.
I'm in beta, and I don't think this game needs a "miracle patch" at all. And if you haven't noticed, Aventurine doesn't like to do things "the way they always are."
LoL tard muffin I was bolstering your point.
Yes, and it is level based for both the character and skills. Skill levels are at 25, 50, 75, 100, and this where you will see small increments in damage and the levels that new spells open up at. Character levels are at every weapon rank; 20, 40, 60, 80, 100. A player that is wearing a full set of rank 20 gear will do 4 - 5 times more damage on a person using rank 0 gear.
I don't see a player of rank 0 having a chance against a rank 20, and there is no way a newb has any chance against a vet sporting rank 40+ gear.
alright i'll forgive my own idioticness just caus tard muffin cracked me up summat good. also, people really need to let go of the 'its in beta' arguement that doesnt fly when its less than a week away. it might still techinically be in beta but thats ONLY because they are going straight into live
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
LoL tard muffin I was bolstering your point.
Yes, and it is level based for both the character and skills. Skill levels are at 25, 50, 75, 100, and this where you will see small increments in damage and the levels that new spells open up at. Character levels are at every weapon rank; 20, 40, 60, 80, 100. A player that is wearing a full set of rank 20 gear will do 4 - 5 times more damage on a person using rank 0 gear.
I don't see a player of rank 0 having a chance against a rank 20, and there is no way a newb has any chance against a vet sporting rank 40+ gear.
alright i'll forgive my own idioticness just caus tard muffin cracked me up summat good.
I agree.... tard muffin = win.