I had the impression that WotC wanted to promote their newest campaign setting so they made DDO with Eberron. It's not up to Turbine which D&D franchice they get to choose for their next game. DDO was technically a very good and solid game with well designed dungeons. It had some shortcomings though. First of all I think it pissed all over the D&D brand when it tried to please the MMO crowd.
WotC did force Turbine to use Eberron, which comes back to show it was a huge mistake by WotC as DDO never took off and neither did the Eberron campaign setting.
I agree that DDO is a very good game. I also agree that it did make the error of catering to the MMO crowd a bit too much, as many die hard D&D tabletop gamers were excited about it before release only to have their hopes stepped on. Another shortcoming was restricting gamers to one location at release. That turned off a lot of people.
I do think that it goes a long a way to show the commitment Turbine has in DDO as they are still updating the game and adding new content. Mod 8 was an excellent addition to the game.
They can't live on LotRO forever and honestly it hasn't done that well.
This is incorrect.
Agree with the incorrect statement. It was the #2 MMO in the US in 2007and is either 2 or 3 right now- with Warhammer coming in 2 or 3.
The #2 and # 3 games do not have 12 million subs but that doesn't mean they "haven't done well". They are successes and profitable still.
And LoTRO is critically acclaimed. It might not have 12 million subs but it took so many PC GOTY and MMO GOTY awards that the game is considered a huge success. That's why Warner Brother/Times Warner chose Turbine to develop a game for them. They gave Turbine 40 million last year for development costs. I don't know if it's a MMO or a console game though. I'm hoping it's a console game because the profits are astronomical compared to a MMO. All we know for sure is it's a title that WB has the franchise rights to.
And if it is Harry Potter- it better be for the console because a Harry Potter MMO would be just silly.
I know Turbine doesn't release sub numbers but their European distibutor Codemasters let a number slip in an article. It was an interview with the CEO of Codemaster. He said that LoTRO had 300k in box sales in EU and double that in the US. So, back in 2007 when this game launched, if they sold 900k boxes- they minimally made 45 million in cash. I say minimally because the guy stated box sales- and I don't know if he was including digital downloads?
So, if Turbine made 45 mill from box sales- wouldn't that cover developmental costs? How many millions would you estimate it took to create LoTRO? Then the sub fees would be their profit and payroll money. Even at 250k-300k subs- that's still 2.5 -3 million dollars in sub fees per month they are pulling in. That's gotta be profitable.
They can't live on LotRO forever and honestly it hasn't done that well.
This is incorrect.
It is correct.
It is correct that they cant live on Lotro forever, but it is incorrect that it hasnt done well. Lotro has done very well, to state otherwise jus proves you are measuring all MMO's to WoW, which is being plain ignorant.
As Mrbloodworth said, Turbone already have a new unannounced MMO in development....
If it had done very well then they would have released sub numbers which they haven't so I'm right as usual.
Your reasoning seems waterproof, so I concur
Yeah, if LotRO is so successful as some people claims in this thread then I think that Turbine would have announced it with bells and whistles already.
I personally think that the sub numbers are less than 100k now but thats just my gut feeling.
It is correct that they cant live on Lotro forever, but it is incorrect that it hasnt done well. Lotro has done very well, to state otherwise jus proves you are measuring all MMO's to WoW, which is being plain ignorant.
As Mrbloodworth said, Turbone already have a new unannounced MMO in development....
If it had done very well then they would have released sub numbers which they haven't so I'm right as usual.
Your reasoning seems waterproof, so I concur
Yeah, if LotRO is so successful as some people claims in this thread then I think that Turbine would have announced it with bells and whistles already.
I personally think that the sub numbers are less than 100k now but thats just my gut feeling.
I should have put a /sarcasm on - /sarcasm off in my post, because you cleary didn't get it
After the fantastic job they did converting lord of the rings from book to game world I would love to see them attempt to create a harry potter online, sadly this may never happen
Personally I hope they go under as they have not improved the MMO world imo, even AC1 was poor and I would like to Codemaster,Turbine and SOE all go under and make room for other companies.
IMO SOE missed the chance to make the world rock by making EQII far better than they did and I do not believe they learnt nothing form EQI and also the SWG saga did them more harm than good.
As for D&D and Bored or the rings failed IMO too I hated both games. This just leaves Funcom who again IMO have hurt them selfs by having that saga with AoC. What we need are more companies to learn from the past and start to implament the vision for the future.
They can't live on LotRO forever and honestly it hasn't done that well.
This is incorrect.
It is correct.
It is correct that they cant live on Lotro forever, but it is incorrect that it hasnt done well. Lotro has done very well, to state otherwise jus proves you are measuring all MMO's to WoW, which is being plain ignorant.
As Mrbloodworth said, Turbone already have a new unannounced MMO in development....
If it had done very well then they would have released sub numbers which they haven't so I'm right as usual.
Your reasoning seems waterproof, so I concur
Yeah, if LotRO is so successful as some people claims in this thread then I think that Turbine would have announced it with bells and whistles already.
I personally think that the sub numbers are less than 100k now but thats just my gut feeling.
Less than 1 minute of googling found around 150k-200k subs at the end of 08.
They can't live on LotRO forever and honestly it hasn't done that well.
This is incorrect.
It is correct.
It is correct that they cant live on Lotro forever, but it is incorrect that it hasnt done well. Lotro has done very well, to state otherwise jus proves you are measuring all MMO's to WoW, which is being plain ignorant.
As Mrbloodworth said, Turbone already have a new unannounced MMO in development....
If it had done very well then they would have released sub numbers which they haven't so I'm right as usual.
Your reasoning seems waterproof, so I concur
Yeah, if LotRO is so successful as some people claims in this thread then I think that Turbine would have announced it with bells and whistles already.
I personally think that the sub numbers are less than 100k now but thats just my gut feeling.
Less than 1 minute of googling found around 150k-200k subs at the end of 08.
They can't live on LotRO forever and honestly it hasn't done that well.
This is incorrect.
It is correct.
It is correct that they cant live on Lotro forever, but it is incorrect that it hasnt done well. Lotro has done very well, to state otherwise jus proves you are measuring all MMO's to WoW, which is being plain ignorant.
As Mrbloodworth said, Turbone already have a new unannounced MMO in development....
If it had done very well then they would have released sub numbers which they haven't so I'm right as usual.
Your reasoning seems waterproof, so I concur
Yeah, if LotRO is so successful as some people claims in this thread then I think that Turbine would have announced it with bells and whistles already.
I personally think that the sub numbers are less than 100k now but thats just my gut feeling.
Less than 1 minute of googling found around 150k-200k subs at the end of 08.
They can't live on LotRO forever and honestly it hasn't done that well.
This is incorrect.
It is correct.
It is correct that they cant live on Lotro forever, but it is incorrect that it hasnt done well. Lotro has done very well, to state otherwise jus proves you are measuring all MMO's to WoW, which is being plain ignorant.
As Mrbloodworth said, Turbone already have a new unannounced MMO in development....
If it had done very well then they would have released sub numbers which they haven't so I'm right as usual.
Your reasoning seems waterproof, so I concur
Yeah, if LotRO is so successful as some people claims in this thread then I think that Turbine would have announced it with bells and whistles already.
I personally think that the sub numbers are less than 100k now but thats just my gut feeling.
Less than 1 minute of googling found around 150k-200k subs at the end of 08.
They can't live on LotRO forever and honestly it hasn't done that well.
This is incorrect.
It is correct.
It is correct that they cant live on Lotro forever, but it is incorrect that it hasnt done well. Lotro has done very well, to state otherwise jus proves you are measuring all MMO's to WoW, which is being plain ignorant.
As Mrbloodworth said, Turbone already have a new unannounced MMO in development....
If it had done very well then they would have released sub numbers which they haven't so I'm right as usual.
Arrogant much?
There is no rule saying that everyone MUST reveal their sales and subscriber figures. Some choose to, even if they are very low, others choose not to even if they are quite high.
As a player of the game though, I can say with great certainty that there are a LOT of people out there playing, just on the EU servers. The population is VERY healthy, with a good mix of level ranges present. There are a few trial players around the low level zones, but once you move up past about level 15, there's still loads of people around, and less and less trial players (you know they're not on trial because they are either playing the expansion exclusive classes, or they send you a whisper, if nothing else, these 2 things show they paid up for the game)
In short, not releasing subs proves nothing. If I don't tell you how much money I have, I could well only have a fiver, but I could also just as well have a few grand. Now go deflate that ego please, before it gets you into trouble.
------------------------------ Currently playing: Rift
former player of: DAoC, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, SWG (pre-NGE), WoW, Warhammer online, LotR:O
At least in my opinion I hope they don't make anymore. Their games are extremely boring too me. I would be very disapointed if I ever seen a IP I really liked. (Like Shadowrun for instance) being turned into a MMO by Turbine.
They can't live on LotRO forever and honestly it hasn't done that well.
This is incorrect.
It is correct.
It is correct that they cant live on Lotro forever, but it is incorrect that it hasnt done well. Lotro has done very well, to state otherwise jus proves you are measuring all MMO's to WoW, which is being plain ignorant.
As Mrbloodworth said, Turbone already have a new unannounced MMO in development....
If it had done very well then they would have released sub numbers which they haven't so I'm right as usual.
Your reasoning seems waterproof, so I concur
Yeah, if LotRO is so successful as some people claims in this thread then I think that Turbine would have announced it with bells and whistles already.
I personally think that the sub numbers are less than 100k now but thats just my gut feeling.
Less than 1 minute of googling found around 150k-200k subs at the end of 08.
Yet you provide no link.
Provide your link for the less than 100k subs then as gut feelings count for squat when your talking numbers.
After the fantastic job they did converting lord of the rings from book to game world I would love to see them attempt to create a harry potter online, sadly this may never happen
Personally I hope they go under as they have not improved the MMO world imo, even AC1 was poor and I would like to Codemaster,Turbine and SOE all go under and make room for other companies.
IMO SOE missed the chance to make the world rock by making EQII far better than they did and I do not believe they learnt nothing form EQI and also the SWG saga did them more harm than good.
As for D&D and Bored or the rings failed IMO too I hated both games. This just leaves Funcom who again IMO have hurt them selfs by having that saga with AoC. What we need are more companies to learn from the past and start to implament the vision for the future.
Bandit.
Wow, you have no idea who works for turbine now, and what turbine has done for this industry do you?
Wanting people to loose their jobs because IN YOUR OPINION you the game is not for you is about the most childish thing I have ever read.
Those New companies need to earn their place, just like the rest of the world.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
DDO bored the hell out of me. I tried it at launch as I was interested in what they would do with the D&D license, but the lack of accessible solo content and the rigidity of the class structures may have been true to the spirit of D&D, but were just not what I was looking for in an MMO.
I heard they mitigated this somewhat in recent updates; I haven't been back since quitting in the trial month. In the MMO world, first impressions count for a great deal.
LotRO was a tricky one. I love the IP, I wanted to love the MMO, and I did enjoy the social RP elements, but from a meta-game perspective, it felt just like a simplified WoW.
I was impressed with the stability and polish of LotRO, so if Turbine learn from their design mistakes I wouldn't think twice about trying out whatever their new MMO turns out to be.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
It really doesn't matter as they got 100 million or some such to make another game. So they're financially solvent unless they report otherwise come next April.
I really hope they make another mmo. I loved DDO and think it was awesome. LotRO was also a very nice game in most respects, but I think combat was mind numbingly boring. So little to do.
If they made a DDO 2 and made it a real MMO, with an open world etc, I would buy it no questions asked. DDO has the best, most fun combat system in any game I have ever played, and the dungeons are second to none.
DDO bored the hell out of me. I tried it at launch as I was interested in what they would do with the D&D license, but the lack of accessible solo content and the rigidity of the class structures may have been true to the spirit of D&D, but were just not what I was looking for in an MMO. I heard they mitigated this somewhat in recent updates; I haven't been back since quitting in the trial month. In the MMO world, first impressions count for a great deal. LotRO was a tricky one. I love the IP, I wanted to love the MMO, and I did enjoy the social RP elements, but from a meta-game perspective, it felt just like a simplified WoW. I was impressed with the stability and polish of LotRO, so if Turbine learn from their design mistakes I wouldn't think twice about trying out whatever their new MMO turns out to be.
You will find alot of dungeons have a solo tag now, also about the rigidity of the classes, I believe they went live with Multi-classing from release so you could have for instance a clr/war/mage as a build or rog/pal/monk or barb/sorc or clr/sorc the list is endless, so in essence the class system is one of the most flexible around other than your sandbox MMO's ofc, so not sure where you got the rigidity from, unless ofc your characters where lvl 1 only.
However DDO certainly isn't for everyone, it does take a different mindset to play a game where you only get rewarded after you've done the complete dungeon and some ppl like to see some sort of instant gratification apon killing a creature.
My old guild played it on the strength of the PnP version and most of them moved on after the trial month, I did aswell but I have returned many times to play alongside my son as I find it's a great family game with the instanced dungeons.
After the fantastic job they did converting lord of the rings from book to game world I would love to see them attempt to create a harry potter online, sadly this may never happen
Personally I hope they go under as they have not improved the MMO world imo, even AC1 was poor and I would like to Codemaster,Turbine and SOE all go under and make room for other companies.
IMO SOE missed the chance to make the world rock by making EQII far better than they did and I do not believe they learnt nothing form EQI and also the SWG saga did them more harm than good.
As for D&D and Bored or the rings failed IMO too I hated both games. This just leaves Funcom who again IMO have hurt them selfs by having that saga with AoC. What we need are more companies to learn from the past and start to implament the vision for the future.
Bandit.
Wow, you have no idea who works for turbine now, and what turbine has done for this industry do you?
Wanting people to loose their jobs because IN YOUR OPINION you the game is not for you is about the most childish thing I have ever read.
Those New companies need to earn their place, just like the rest of the world.
While you have one thing right, I do not have a clue, nor do i care who works for Turbine, as I am sure they get paid well for their work and move onto the next project as many do in this industry you claim to know so much about.
WTF are you ranting about as for me being childish about wanting people to lose their jobs, you could not be further from the truth. I believe you need to brush up on your English skills before you try laying the loss of jobs on my shoulders...
Indecently I doubt me complaining about these companies will cause the loss of any jobs and as I stated I was giving my opinion that I feel if they do go bust then they deserve too, perhaps if these companies provided the game they claim they were going to, or even stop breaking things which are not broken, then they would be able to employ more folks...
As for Codemasters, SOE and Turbine being new companies not sure how long you have been asleep my friend, or even what you have been drinking, but I'll have a pint of what you are on please!!
The reason I made my comments are that no company has a divine right to remain in business if they fail to provide the service which any customer is paying for. Like I pointed out if I invest in their product and it falls far short of what they claim, then YES I have a right to make my point and have done so.
My point was they failed to meet my expectation and many others too and if I ran my business like some of these software companies do then I would of been bankrupt many years ago, I pride myself on customer service and my products do what it says on the can.
I have yet to play any game which does what it claims and as far as I am concerned these companies should be made to address and put right many problems which they have in their unfinished games.
They get away with murder and many will die in this current climate if they do not get their acts together and I stick with my first statement I hope some of these companies pay the ultimate price and go down.
As for having no idea what Turbine have done for the industry, this is of course your opinion, of which you are entitled to, but I personally do not agree with you. I beta tested and played AC1, D&D, BoTr, SWG(SOE) and have had some issues with Codemasters customer services which suck big time, or should I say the lack of, so I can assure you I am well aware of these companies and the products they have made and also many more I didn't even bother to mention as it was an example, but again alas you lack of understanding of the statement seems to have you confused.
As you can see I have also said SOE this is not Turbine but another company this should of given it away, so I guess you are a fanboi of Turbine and i'm fine with that, whatever floats your boat and there is nothing wrong with defending a company which you like and I salute you for that but that does not mean I have to agree with you dude.
However I hope that I have enlightened you a little about what I was talking about to prevent you from sounding even more ridiculous. See what you have done, you have got me on my high horse now and I am a nice person normally, hence all my stars.
Because a certain trollish presence in this thread has gotten annoying:
Based on this statement, I estimate that as of August 2007 LotRO had approximately 200,000 subscribers. Inside sources place the number of active subscribers at 150,000 as of December 2007
Which is about the most knowledgable site you will find on MMO subscription levels out there. Even if it seems a bit inactive and hasn't accounted for any of the 2008 activity yet really.
After the fantastic job they did converting lord of the rings from book to game world I would love to see them attempt to create a harry potter online, sadly this may never happen
Personally I hope they go under as they have not improved the MMO world imo, even AC1 was poor and I would like to Codemaster,Turbine and SOE all go under and make room for other companies.
IMO SOE missed the chance to make the world rock by making EQII far better than they did and I do not believe they learnt nothing form EQI and also the SWG saga did them more harm than good.
As for D&D and Bored or the rings failed IMO too I hated both games. This just leaves Funcom who again IMO have hurt them selfs by having that saga with AoC. What we need are more companies to learn from the past and start to implament the vision for the future.
Bandit.
Wow, you have no idea who works for turbine now, and what turbine has done for this industry do you?
Wanting people to loose their jobs because IN YOUR OPINION you the game is not for you is about the most childish thing I have ever read.
Those New companies need to earn their place, just like the rest of the world.
While you have one thing right, I do not have a clue, nor do i care who works for Turbine, as I am sure they get paid well for their work and move onto the next project as many do in this industry you claim to know so much about.
WTF are you ranting about as for me being childish about wanting people to lose their jobs, you could not be further from the truth. I believe you need to brush up on your English skills before you try laying the loss of jobs on my shoulders...
Indecently I doubt me complaining about these companies will cause the loss of any jobs and as I stated I was giving my opinion that I feel if they do go bust then they deserve too, perhaps if these companies provided the game they claim they were going to, or even stop breaking things which are not broken, then they would be able to employ more folks...
As for Codemasters, SOE and Turbine being new companies not sure how long you have been asleep my friend, or even what you have been drinking, but I'll have a pint of what you are on please!!
The reason I made my comments are that no company has a divine right to remain in business if they fail to provide the service which any customer is paying for. Like I pointed out if I invest in their product and it falls far short of what they claim, then YES I have a right to make my point and have done so.
My point was they failed to meet my expectation and many others too and if I ran my business like some of these software companies do then I would of been bankrupt many years ago, I pride myself on customer service and my products do what it says on the can.
I have yet to play any game which does what it claims and as far as I am concerned these companies should be made to address and put right many problems which they have in their unfinished games.
They get away with murder and many will die in this current climate if they do not get their acts together and I stick with my first statement I hope some of these companies pay the ultimate price and go down.
As for having no idea what Turbine have done for the industry, this is of course your opinion, of which you are entitled to, but I personally do not agree with you. I beta tested and played AC1, D&D, BoTr, SWG(SOE) and have had some issues with Codemasters customer services which suck big time, or should I say the lack of, so I can assure you I am well aware of these companies and the products they have made and also many more I didn't even bother to mention as it was an example, but again alas you lack of understanding of the statement seems to have you confused.
As you can see I have also said SOE this is not Turbine but another company this should of given it away, so I guess you are a fanboi of Turbine and i'm fine with that, whatever floats your boat and there is nothing wrong with defending a company which you like and I salute you for that but that does not mean I have to agree with you dude.
However I hope that I have enlightened you a little about what I was talking about to prevent you from sounding even more ridiculous. See what you have done, you have got me on my high horse now and I am a nice person normally, hence all my stars.
Bandit.
EH? if you want a company to go under that usually means those ppl who work for that company will lose thier jobs well thats how the majority of ppl normally view it and if you didn't intend for it to come out that way it was a very poor choice of words for someone of your years and being a native English user.
Btw "Indecently"!!!!!!! you got other things on your mind while writing that last response??
Also SoE/Turbine/Funcom are providing a service, just not the service you obviously want, however other customers see ii very differently to you but this is an open forum we are all able to offer opinions, all of them count for squat to each other though.
As for these companies dying off in this economic downturn I think thats further from the truth than you can imagine, TV subscriptions are on the increase due to ppl staying at home more rather than going down to the pub, games both PC and board are becoming more popular again as ppl stay at home trying to cut down on costs, if I was to take my family out for a meal (5 of us) then that would cost me about £120 with drinks where as if we stay at home and watch Virgin Media it will cost me £30 plus add in the various subscriptions we have to various MMO's then that bill comes to about £60 per month and thats per month not just for 1 night out.
Had to laugh when you mentioned bad CS from Codemasters, I'l wager that everyone has had a bad experience with CS from any company, it's not just confined to 1 company heck I've had terrible service from Blizzard after my sons account was compromised, I had all the proof yet it still took more than 2 weeks for anything to happen and my son was still given a warning, ofc I had already told him off for going onto the Gold selling sites to browse (I was furious with him for even considering buying gold) but Blizzard should have been more sympathetic and moved the process along much quicker. However I accept that CS are usually overworked and understaffed.
Yeah, if LotRO is so successful as some people claims in this thread then I think that Turbine would have announced it with bells and whistles already.
I personally think that the sub numbers are less than 100k now but thats just my gut feeling.
I read someone that publicly traded company can't release their sub numbers, it has nothing to do with them being low.
And so what if the sub numbers are low, popular does not equal quality, just look at music.
If you are going to judge a game base only on popularity, than just go play WoW. And for your TV viewing I recommend Dancing with the stars.
Personally I believe the most creative devs at Turbine were the original group that made Asheron's Call 1. As to their current affairs,it appears they are "maintaining" themselves with Lotr. I would be greatly surprised if the money they make from DDO is anything more than the bare-minumum needed to keep running it and that could easily change for the worse.
So,two things come to my mind about the question at hand: is there enough Talent there to even consider making another mmo ( I can't say) and,more importantly do they even have the desire there to begin such a project. Asheron's call would certainly be worthy of a sequel if they wished to try it again. It remains to be seen wether or not after making too mmo's based on huge franchises that had built-in audiences that the courage is there to try and finally do justice to their original mmo or just stick with the "play-it-safe" mentality. I do not believe they would try to make an mmo that was completely new. I will say that if they ever made a new AC, I absolutely would have to try it,those were good times : )
Yeah, if LotRO is so successful as some people claims in this thread then I think that Turbine would have announced it with bells and whistles already.
I personally think that the sub numbers are less than 100k now but thats just my gut feeling.
I read someone that publicly traded company can't release their sub numbers, it has nothing to do with them being low.
They tried to release some sort of a sub numbers to gain other players intrested. But since their sub is low, they come out with this 4mil charac created...... thing.
Not that Turbine is a bad company, seeing they have improve with LOTR, but i really hope for their sake, they have more innovative idea, else their game will be very boring. If their next mmo fail ( less than 500k sub) than i think it will be their last venture in this gene.
Comments
WotC did force Turbine to use Eberron, which comes back to show it was a huge mistake by WotC as DDO never took off and neither did the Eberron campaign setting.
I agree that DDO is a very good game. I also agree that it did make the error of catering to the MMO crowd a bit too much, as many die hard D&D tabletop gamers were excited about it before release only to have their hopes stepped on. Another shortcoming was restricting gamers to one location at release. That turned off a lot of people.
I do think that it goes a long a way to show the commitment Turbine has in DDO as they are still updating the game and adding new content. Mod 8 was an excellent addition to the game.
This is incorrect.
Agree with the incorrect statement. It was the #2 MMO in the US in 2007and is either 2 or 3 right now- with Warhammer coming in 2 or 3.
The #2 and # 3 games do not have 12 million subs but that doesn't mean they "haven't done well". They are successes and profitable still.
And LoTRO is critically acclaimed. It might not have 12 million subs but it took so many PC GOTY and MMO GOTY awards that the game is considered a huge success. That's why Warner Brother/Times Warner chose Turbine to develop a game for them. They gave Turbine 40 million last year for development costs. I don't know if it's a MMO or a console game though. I'm hoping it's a console game because the profits are astronomical compared to a MMO. All we know for sure is it's a title that WB has the franchise rights to.
And if it is Harry Potter- it better be for the console because a Harry Potter MMO would be just silly.
I know Turbine doesn't release sub numbers but their European distibutor Codemasters let a number slip in an article. It was an interview with the CEO of Codemaster. He said that LoTRO had 300k in box sales in EU and double that in the US. So, back in 2007 when this game launched, if they sold 900k boxes- they minimally made 45 million in cash. I say minimally because the guy stated box sales- and I don't know if he was including digital downloads?
So, if Turbine made 45 mill from box sales- wouldn't that cover developmental costs? How many millions would you estimate it took to create LoTRO? Then the sub fees would be their profit and payroll money. Even at 250k-300k subs- that's still 2.5 -3 million dollars in sub fees per month they are pulling in. That's gotta be profitable.
This is incorrect.
It is correct.
It is correct that they cant live on Lotro forever, but it is incorrect that it hasnt done well. Lotro has done very well, to state otherwise jus proves you are measuring all MMO's to WoW, which is being plain ignorant.
As Mrbloodworth said, Turbone already have a new unannounced MMO in development....
If it had done very well then they would have released sub numbers which they haven't so I'm right as usual.
Your reasoning seems waterproof, so I concur
Yeah, if LotRO is so successful as some people claims in this thread then I think that Turbine would have announced it with bells and whistles already.
I personally think that the sub numbers are less than 100k now but thats just my gut feeling.
If it had done very well then they would have released sub numbers which they haven't so I'm right as usual.
Your reasoning seems waterproof, so I concur
Yeah, if LotRO is so successful as some people claims in this thread then I think that Turbine would have announced it with bells and whistles already.
I personally think that the sub numbers are less than 100k now but thats just my gut feeling.
I should have put a /sarcasm on - /sarcasm off in my post, because you cleary didn't get it
If you are lagging on Lotro you either A. have severe issues with your ISP or your system has issues.
I run it on a very old machine, with little to no lag.
BTW there is nothing wrong with DDO, it is strictly a niche product, definitely not for the pvp types.
As to another MMO, Turbine is working on one they have not announced yet. Isn't everyone?
Personally I hope they go under as they have not improved the MMO world imo, even AC1 was poor and I would like to Codemaster,Turbine and SOE all go under and make room for other companies.
IMO SOE missed the chance to make the world rock by making EQII far better than they did and I do not believe they learnt nothing form EQI and also the SWG saga did them more harm than good.
As for D&D and Bored or the rings failed IMO too I hated both games. This just leaves Funcom who again IMO have hurt them selfs by having that saga with AoC. What we need are more companies to learn from the past and start to implament the vision for the future.
Bandit.
Asbo
This is incorrect.
It is correct.
It is correct that they cant live on Lotro forever, but it is incorrect that it hasnt done well. Lotro has done very well, to state otherwise jus proves you are measuring all MMO's to WoW, which is being plain ignorant.
As Mrbloodworth said, Turbone already have a new unannounced MMO in development....
If it had done very well then they would have released sub numbers which they haven't so I'm right as usual.
Your reasoning seems waterproof, so I concur
Yeah, if LotRO is so successful as some people claims in this thread then I think that Turbine would have announced it with bells and whistles already.
I personally think that the sub numbers are less than 100k now but thats just my gut feeling.
Less than 1 minute of googling found around 150k-200k subs at the end of 08.
Playing: EVE
and you better care
This is incorrect.
It is correct.
It is correct that they cant live on Lotro forever, but it is incorrect that it hasnt done well. Lotro has done very well, to state otherwise jus proves you are measuring all MMO's to WoW, which is being plain ignorant.
As Mrbloodworth said, Turbone already have a new unannounced MMO in development....
If it had done very well then they would have released sub numbers which they haven't so I'm right as usual.
Your reasoning seems waterproof, so I concur
Yeah, if LotRO is so successful as some people claims in this thread then I think that Turbine would have announced it with bells and whistles already.
I personally think that the sub numbers are less than 100k now but thats just my gut feeling.
Less than 1 minute of googling found around 150k-200k subs at the end of 08.
Yet you provide no link.
This is incorrect.
It is correct.
It is correct that they cant live on Lotro forever, but it is incorrect that it hasnt done well. Lotro has done very well, to state otherwise jus proves you are measuring all MMO's to WoW, which is being plain ignorant.
As Mrbloodworth said, Turbone already have a new unannounced MMO in development....
If it had done very well then they would have released sub numbers which they haven't so I'm right as usual.
Your reasoning seems waterproof, so I concur
Yeah, if LotRO is so successful as some people claims in this thread then I think that Turbine would have announced it with bells and whistles already.
I personally think that the sub numbers are less than 100k now but thats just my gut feeling.
Less than 1 minute of googling found around 150k-200k subs at the end of 08.
Yet you provide no link.
And you provide no logic...
This is incorrect.
It is correct.
It is correct that they cant live on Lotro forever, but it is incorrect that it hasnt done well. Lotro has done very well, to state otherwise jus proves you are measuring all MMO's to WoW, which is being plain ignorant.
As Mrbloodworth said, Turbone already have a new unannounced MMO in development....
If it had done very well then they would have released sub numbers which they haven't so I'm right as usual.
Your reasoning seems waterproof, so I concur
Yeah, if LotRO is so successful as some people claims in this thread then I think that Turbine would have announced it with bells and whistles already.
I personally think that the sub numbers are less than 100k now but thats just my gut feeling.
Less than 1 minute of googling found around 150k-200k subs at the end of 08.
Is that based on the horrible retail sales?
This is incorrect.
It is correct.
It is correct that they cant live on Lotro forever, but it is incorrect that it hasnt done well. Lotro has done very well, to state otherwise jus proves you are measuring all MMO's to WoW, which is being plain ignorant.
As Mrbloodworth said, Turbone already have a new unannounced MMO in development....
If it had done very well then they would have released sub numbers which they haven't so I'm right as usual.
Arrogant much?
There is no rule saying that everyone MUST reveal their sales and subscriber figures. Some choose to, even if they are very low, others choose not to even if they are quite high.
As a player of the game though, I can say with great certainty that there are a LOT of people out there playing, just on the EU servers. The population is VERY healthy, with a good mix of level ranges present. There are a few trial players around the low level zones, but once you move up past about level 15, there's still loads of people around, and less and less trial players (you know they're not on trial because they are either playing the expansion exclusive classes, or they send you a whisper, if nothing else, these 2 things show they paid up for the game)
In short, not releasing subs proves nothing. If I don't tell you how much money I have, I could well only have a fiver, but I could also just as well have a few grand. Now go deflate that ego please, before it gets you into trouble.
------------------------------
Currently playing: Rift
former player of: DAoC, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, SWG (pre-NGE), WoW, Warhammer online, LotR:O
At least in my opinion I hope they don't make anymore.
Their games are extremely boring too me. I would be very disapointed if I ever seen a IP I really liked. (Like Shadowrun for instance) being turned into a MMO by Turbine.
This is incorrect.
It is correct.
It is correct that they cant live on Lotro forever, but it is incorrect that it hasnt done well. Lotro has done very well, to state otherwise jus proves you are measuring all MMO's to WoW, which is being plain ignorant.
As Mrbloodworth said, Turbone already have a new unannounced MMO in development....
If it had done very well then they would have released sub numbers which they haven't so I'm right as usual.
Your reasoning seems waterproof, so I concur
Yeah, if LotRO is so successful as some people claims in this thread then I think that Turbine would have announced it with bells and whistles already.
I personally think that the sub numbers are less than 100k now but thats just my gut feeling.
Less than 1 minute of googling found around 150k-200k subs at the end of 08.
Yet you provide no link.
Provide your link for the less than 100k subs then as gut feelings count for squat when your talking numbers.
Personally I hope they go under as they have not improved the MMO world imo, even AC1 was poor and I would like to Codemaster,Turbine and SOE all go under and make room for other companies.
IMO SOE missed the chance to make the world rock by making EQII far better than they did and I do not believe they learnt nothing form EQI and also the SWG saga did them more harm than good.
As for D&D and Bored or the rings failed IMO too I hated both games. This just leaves Funcom who again IMO have hurt them selfs by having that saga with AoC. What we need are more companies to learn from the past and start to implament the vision for the future.
Bandit.
Wow, you have no idea who works for turbine now, and what turbine has done for this industry do you?
Wanting people to loose their jobs because IN YOUR OPINION you the game is not for you is about the most childish thing I have ever read.
Those New companies need to earn their place, just like the rest of the world.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
DDO bored the hell out of me. I tried it at launch as I was interested in what they would do with the D&D license, but the lack of accessible solo content and the rigidity of the class structures may have been true to the spirit of D&D, but were just not what I was looking for in an MMO.
I heard they mitigated this somewhat in recent updates; I haven't been back since quitting in the trial month. In the MMO world, first impressions count for a great deal.
LotRO was a tricky one. I love the IP, I wanted to love the MMO, and I did enjoy the social RP elements, but from a meta-game perspective, it felt just like a simplified WoW.
I was impressed with the stability and polish of LotRO, so if Turbine learn from their design mistakes I wouldn't think twice about trying out whatever their new MMO turns out to be.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
It really doesn't matter as they got 100 million or some such to make another game. So they're financially solvent unless they report otherwise come next April.
I really hope they make another mmo. I loved DDO and think it was awesome. LotRO was also a very nice game in most respects, but I think combat was mind numbingly boring. So little to do.
If they made a DDO 2 and made it a real MMO, with an open world etc, I would buy it no questions asked. DDO has the best, most fun combat system in any game I have ever played, and the dungeons are second to none.
I know this won't happen but I would like to see them create The Forgotten Realms but in the style of LOTRO not DDO, but with D&D classes.
MMO Played-EQ, EQ2, WOW, DDO, GW, COH, Vanguard, WAR
MMOs Playing-LOTRO
You will find alot of dungeons have a solo tag now, also about the rigidity of the classes, I believe they went live with Multi-classing from release so you could have for instance a clr/war/mage as a build or rog/pal/monk or barb/sorc or clr/sorc the list is endless, so in essence the class system is one of the most flexible around other than your sandbox MMO's ofc, so not sure where you got the rigidity from, unless ofc your characters where lvl 1 only.
However DDO certainly isn't for everyone, it does take a different mindset to play a game where you only get rewarded after you've done the complete dungeon and some ppl like to see some sort of instant gratification apon killing a creature.
My old guild played it on the strength of the PnP version and most of them moved on after the trial month, I did aswell but I have returned many times to play alongside my son as I find it's a great family game with the instanced dungeons.
Personally I hope they go under as they have not improved the MMO world imo, even AC1 was poor and I would like to Codemaster,Turbine and SOE all go under and make room for other companies.
IMO SOE missed the chance to make the world rock by making EQII far better than they did and I do not believe they learnt nothing form EQI and also the SWG saga did them more harm than good.
As for D&D and Bored or the rings failed IMO too I hated both games. This just leaves Funcom who again IMO have hurt them selfs by having that saga with AoC. What we need are more companies to learn from the past and start to implament the vision for the future.
Bandit.
Wow, you have no idea who works for turbine now, and what turbine has done for this industry do you?
Wanting people to loose their jobs because IN YOUR OPINION you the game is not for you is about the most childish thing I have ever read.
Those New companies need to earn their place, just like the rest of the world.
While you have one thing right, I do not have a clue, nor do i care who works for Turbine, as I am sure they get paid well for their work and move onto the next project as many do in this industry you claim to know so much about.
WTF are you ranting about as for me being childish about wanting people to lose their jobs, you could not be further from the truth. I believe you need to brush up on your English skills before you try laying the loss of jobs on my shoulders...
Indecently I doubt me complaining about these companies will cause the loss of any jobs and as I stated I was giving my opinion that I feel if they do go bust then they deserve too, perhaps if these companies provided the game they claim they were going to, or even stop breaking things which are not broken, then they would be able to employ more folks...
As for Codemasters, SOE and Turbine being new companies not sure how long you have been asleep my friend, or even what you have been drinking, but I'll have a pint of what you are on please!!
The reason I made my comments are that no company has a divine right to remain in business if they fail to provide the service which any customer is paying for. Like I pointed out if I invest in their product and it falls far short of what they claim, then YES I have a right to make my point and have done so.
My point was they failed to meet my expectation and many others too and if I ran my business like some of these software companies do then I would of been bankrupt many years ago, I pride myself on customer service and my products do what it says on the can.
I have yet to play any game which does what it claims and as far as I am concerned these companies should be made to address and put right many problems which they have in their unfinished games.
They get away with murder and many will die in this current climate if they do not get their acts together and I stick with my first statement I hope some of these companies pay the ultimate price and go down.
As for having no idea what Turbine have done for the industry, this is of course your opinion, of which you are entitled to, but I personally do not agree with you. I beta tested and played AC1, D&D, BoTr, SWG(SOE) and have had some issues with Codemasters customer services which suck big time, or should I say the lack of, so I can assure you I am well aware of these companies and the products they have made and also many more I didn't even bother to mention as it was an example, but again alas you lack of understanding of the statement seems to have you confused.
As you can see I have also said SOE this is not Turbine but another company this should of given it away, so I guess you are a fanboi of Turbine and i'm fine with that, whatever floats your boat and there is nothing wrong with defending a company which you like and I salute you for that but that does not mean I have to agree with you dude.
However I hope that I have enlightened you a little about what I was talking about to prevent you from sounding even more ridiculous. See what you have done, you have got me on my high horse now and I am a nice person normally, hence all my stars.
Bandit.
Asbo
Because a certain trollish presence in this thread has gotten annoying:
Based on this statement, I estimate that as of August 2007 LotRO had approximately 200,000 subscribers. Inside sources place the number of active subscribers at 150,000 as of December 2007
Taken from: http://www.mmogchart.com/analysis-and-conclusions/
Which is about the most knowledgable site you will find on MMO subscription levels out there. Even if it seems a bit inactive and hasn't accounted for any of the 2008 activity yet really.
Personally I hope they go under as they have not improved the MMO world imo, even AC1 was poor and I would like to Codemaster,Turbine and SOE all go under and make room for other companies.
IMO SOE missed the chance to make the world rock by making EQII far better than they did and I do not believe they learnt nothing form EQI and also the SWG saga did them more harm than good.
As for D&D and Bored or the rings failed IMO too I hated both games. This just leaves Funcom who again IMO have hurt them selfs by having that saga with AoC. What we need are more companies to learn from the past and start to implament the vision for the future.
Bandit.
Wow, you have no idea who works for turbine now, and what turbine has done for this industry do you?
Wanting people to loose their jobs because IN YOUR OPINION you the game is not for you is about the most childish thing I have ever read.
Those New companies need to earn their place, just like the rest of the world.
While you have one thing right, I do not have a clue, nor do i care who works for Turbine, as I am sure they get paid well for their work and move onto the next project as many do in this industry you claim to know so much about.
WTF are you ranting about as for me being childish about wanting people to lose their jobs, you could not be further from the truth. I believe you need to brush up on your English skills before you try laying the loss of jobs on my shoulders...
Indecently I doubt me complaining about these companies will cause the loss of any jobs and as I stated I was giving my opinion that I feel if they do go bust then they deserve too, perhaps if these companies provided the game they claim they were going to, or even stop breaking things which are not broken, then they would be able to employ more folks...
As for Codemasters, SOE and Turbine being new companies not sure how long you have been asleep my friend, or even what you have been drinking, but I'll have a pint of what you are on please!!
The reason I made my comments are that no company has a divine right to remain in business if they fail to provide the service which any customer is paying for. Like I pointed out if I invest in their product and it falls far short of what they claim, then YES I have a right to make my point and have done so.
My point was they failed to meet my expectation and many others too and if I ran my business like some of these software companies do then I would of been bankrupt many years ago, I pride myself on customer service and my products do what it says on the can.
I have yet to play any game which does what it claims and as far as I am concerned these companies should be made to address and put right many problems which they have in their unfinished games.
They get away with murder and many will die in this current climate if they do not get their acts together and I stick with my first statement I hope some of these companies pay the ultimate price and go down.
As for having no idea what Turbine have done for the industry, this is of course your opinion, of which you are entitled to, but I personally do not agree with you. I beta tested and played AC1, D&D, BoTr, SWG(SOE) and have had some issues with Codemasters customer services which suck big time, or should I say the lack of, so I can assure you I am well aware of these companies and the products they have made and also many more I didn't even bother to mention as it was an example, but again alas you lack of understanding of the statement seems to have you confused.
As you can see I have also said SOE this is not Turbine but another company this should of given it away, so I guess you are a fanboi of Turbine and i'm fine with that, whatever floats your boat and there is nothing wrong with defending a company which you like and I salute you for that but that does not mean I have to agree with you dude.
However I hope that I have enlightened you a little about what I was talking about to prevent you from sounding even more ridiculous. See what you have done, you have got me on my high horse now and I am a nice person normally, hence all my stars.
Bandit.
EH? if you want a company to go under that usually means those ppl who work for that company will lose thier jobs well thats how the majority of ppl normally view it and if you didn't intend for it to come out that way it was a very poor choice of words for someone of your years and being a native English user.
Btw "Indecently"!!!!!!! you got other things on your mind while writing that last response??
Also SoE/Turbine/Funcom are providing a service, just not the service you obviously want, however other customers see ii very differently to you but this is an open forum we are all able to offer opinions, all of them count for squat to each other though.
As for these companies dying off in this economic downturn I think thats further from the truth than you can imagine, TV subscriptions are on the increase due to ppl staying at home more rather than going down to the pub, games both PC and board are becoming more popular again as ppl stay at home trying to cut down on costs, if I was to take my family out for a meal (5 of us) then that would cost me about £120 with drinks where as if we stay at home and watch Virgin Media it will cost me £30 plus add in the various subscriptions we have to various MMO's then that bill comes to about £60 per month and thats per month not just for 1 night out.
Had to laugh when you mentioned bad CS from Codemasters, I'l wager that everyone has had a bad experience with CS from any company, it's not just confined to 1 company heck I've had terrible service from Blizzard after my sons account was compromised, I had all the proof yet it still took more than 2 weeks for anything to happen and my son was still given a warning, ofc I had already told him off for going onto the Gold selling sites to browse (I was furious with him for even considering buying gold) but Blizzard should have been more sympathetic and moved the process along much quicker. However I accept that CS are usually overworked and understaffed.
Yeah, if LotRO is so successful as some people claims in this thread then I think that Turbine would have announced it with bells and whistles already.
I personally think that the sub numbers are less than 100k now but thats just my gut feeling.
I read someone that publicly traded company can't release their sub numbers, it has nothing to do with them being low.
And so what if the sub numbers are low, popular does not equal quality, just look at music.
If you are going to judge a game base only on popularity, than just go play WoW. And for your TV viewing I recommend Dancing with the stars.
Personally I believe the most creative devs at Turbine were the original group that made Asheron's Call 1. As to their current affairs,it appears they are "maintaining" themselves with Lotr. I would be greatly surprised if the money they make from DDO is anything more than the bare-minumum needed to keep running it and that could easily change for the worse.
So,two things come to my mind about the question at hand: is there enough Talent there to even consider making another mmo ( I can't say) and,more importantly do they even have the desire there to begin such a project. Asheron's call would certainly be worthy of a sequel if they wished to try it again. It remains to be seen wether or not after making too mmo's based on huge franchises that had built-in audiences that the courage is there to try and finally do justice to their original mmo or just stick with the "play-it-safe" mentality. I do not believe they would try to make an mmo that was completely new. I will say that if they ever made a new AC, I absolutely would have to try it,those were good times : )
lothlore
Yeah, if LotRO is so successful as some people claims in this thread then I think that Turbine would have announced it with bells and whistles already.
I personally think that the sub numbers are less than 100k now but thats just my gut feeling.
I read someone that publicly traded company can't release their sub numbers, it has nothing to do with them being low.
I dont think this is correct.
www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/loadNews/8872
They tried to release some sort of a sub numbers to gain other players intrested. But since their sub is low, they come out with this 4mil charac created...... thing.
Not that Turbine is a bad company, seeing they have improve with LOTR, but i really hope for their sake, they have more innovative idea, else their game will be very boring. If their next mmo fail ( less than 500k sub) than i think it will be their last venture in this gene.
RIP Orc Choppa