In my post I listed three myths that apply to Every sandbox game...easily. The forth i agreed with but then gave my tips to new players since both Ryzom and DF (the only two current sandbox mmos other then eve) are easier to play as a crafter/gatherer if you level combat skills to defend yourself. it was more of a "make the game easier for yourself" tip. I knew by writing the fourth people would disagree, but I hoped people would understand what I meant. they clearly didnt, they even are accusing me of actually taking shit about sandbox mmos lol. Saying sandbox MMOs has a basic leveling system, have gated sections of a game world through mob difficulty and that there is a power gap between a new player and a vet is totally true, so there really isnt much else to say to be honest. You say it doesn't apply to every game? but it does
It doesn't apply to every game. In fact, I'm fairly certain I gave you an example: Second Life. Second Life is a sandbox game where vets/noobs are no different in skill values and can travel to any of the same areas of the game world. I agree that the vast majority of games have differences between vets and noobs and that exploration is limited by character skill level, that's a given, but not all games do. Once again, please do not try to make a comprehensive feature list for sandbox games, there are very few game mechanics that apply to all of them.
Also, EvE, Ryzom, and Darkfall are not the only sandboxes out right now, so please do research before making claims that apply to "all sandbox" games. Sure, most of the claims you made do apply to EvE, Ryzom, and Darkfall, but that doesn't mean they apply to all sandbox games.
Seriously enough with the second life crap, Once it stops being a player run AD campaign i'll consider it a game.
Now for a list of sandbox games that arent like Secondlife? Eve,Ryzom,Wurm,ToD,Mabinogi and the hybrids? AO and Runescape. Did i miss any that weren't real cash scams like SL?
Hell I could add in about 5 sandbox games coming out before 2010 also, believe me I know whats out there.
Hell I've only been playing sandbox games since UO, I guess I know nothing
You did miss some which I named some in my posts. But you selectively ignored my posts.
Seriously enough with the second life crap, Once it stops being a player run AD campaign i'll consider it a game. Now for a list of sandbox games that arent like Secondlife? Eve,Ryzom,Wurm,ToD,Mabinogi and the hybrids? AO and Runescape. Did i miss any that weren't real cash scams like SL? Hell I could add in about 5 sandbox games coming out before 2010 also, believe me I know whats out there. Hell I've only been playing sandbox games since UO, I guess I know nothing
First of all, I'm not going to get in an argument with you about whether Second Life is a game or not. That would just lead to us arguing over the definition of a "game," and that's completely off topic. Point is, Second Life breaks those myths, whether it's a game or not.
Secondly, you originally said EvE, Ryzom, and Darkfall were the only sandbox games, except you seem to be systematically adding to the list. There are likely more sandbox games than you know about, and there are likely more sandbox games than I know about as well, which is exactly my point. It is close to impossible to classify all sandbox games with certain "myths," especially when you don't even list (or know about) all the games out there.
Finally, please stop with the martyrdom. I respect your opinions, but when you omit or neglect to find evidence, it hurts your argument.
Oh, and you've been playing sandbox games since UO? Funny how that didn't appear on the list...
Two of the biggest features (IMO), that separate the themepark MMOs from the non-linear MMOs.
1) Narrow class systems. It's not so much the fact that they're class based, but more about how cookie cutter they are. Very little customization options or spec options. Some times this is intentional, some times things turn out this way as players discover that most of the skills/specs just don't work. So, you end up with a situation where every character of a specfic class is almost exactly the same.
2) Quest based. This was a big turning point that shuffled MMORPGs much closer to linear-single-player-RPG territory. Now, every thing is about quests. Development is completely focused on churning out more quests and you're rewarded more for questing than any thing else. You just managed to solo a tough group of mobs? Great! Too bad you only got 1/10th the xp you could have made from one of those mindless fed-ex quests. Zones are built around quest hubs that support a tiny level range and you're basically hand held from one quest hub to the next. No exploring the game world for you.
Seriously enough with the second life crap, Once it stops being a player run AD campaign i'll consider it a game. Now for a list of sandbox games that arent like Secondlife? Eve,Ryzom,Wurm,ToD,Mabinogi and the hybrids? AO and Runescape. Did i miss any that weren't real cash scams like SL? Hell I could add in about 5 sandbox games coming out before 2010 also, believe me I know whats out there. Hell I've only been playing sandbox games since UO, I guess I know nothing
First of all, I'm not going to get in an argument with you about whether Second Life is a game or not. That would just lead to us arguing over the definition of a "game," and that's completely off topic. Point is, Second Life breaks those myths, whether it's a game or not.
Secondly, you originally said EvE, Ryzom, and Darkfall were the only sandbox games, except you seem to be systematically adding to the list. There are likely more sandbox games than you know about, and there are likely more sandbox games than I know about as well, which is exactly my point. It is close to impossible to classify all sandbox games with certain "myths," especially when you don't even list (or know about) all the games out there.
Finally, please stop with the martyrdom. I respect your opinions, but when you omit or neglect to find evidence, it hurts your argument.
Oh, and you've been playing sandbox games since UO? Funny how that didn't appear on the list...
UO isnt the same game. I consider it more of a Hybrid now.
Swg is a Hybrid also imo (thats going to get me flamed LOL!)
Wurm, Mabinogi and ToD are very small population wise and F2p. on this forum F2p games aren't even considered MMOs lol! I try not to wake the trolls. Once I start listing every freaking F2p these guys will BBQ me.
anyway since you seem to know so much about every freaking game thats labeled Sandbox care to make a list for us all?
Hell if im missing some that arent like second life (Player driven Ad campaign disguised as a game) let me know.
Also i went through the thread again real quick I didnt see any post naming games I didn't list from you. If you could quote it for me that would be great.
Two of the biggest features (IMO), that separate the themepark MMOs from the non-linear MMOs. 1) Narrow class systems. It's not so much the fact that they're class based, but more about how cookie cutter they are. Very little customization options or spec options. Some times this is intentional, some times things turn out this way as players discover that most of the skills/specs just don't work. So, you end up with a situation where every character of a specfic class is almost exactly the same. 2) Quest based. This was a big turning point that shuffled MMORPGs much closer to linear-single-player-RPG territory. Now, every thing is about quests. Development is completely focused on churning out more quests and you're rewarded more for questing than any thing else. You just managed to solo a tough group of mobs? Great! Too bad you only got 1/10th the xp you could have made from one of those mindless fed-ex quests. Zones are built around quest hubs that support a tiny level range and you're basically hand held from one quest hub to the next. No exploring the game world for you.
you got a point... there are too many of the quest/class based mmo's altough quest based just makes it another wow copy, and hell we got too many of those already! class based well that is ok since its not wow copy but still no fun... sandbox games are what quite a number of people like but its to hard for people to create a real sandbox:( so in the end they focuse on those two and it just becomes alot more of those copies! more games like eve and perhaps wurm (no monthly payment ofcourse a one time payment is enough) is whats preferred a free game (i mean free like in action free, money free would never happen to a good game) where we got lotsa things to do.
so in the end a quest based game just ends up with 1 try and its booring noone wants to repeat everything they did over and over again just because they are done with all the quests! so that concludes my version no reply wanted because i won't read it anyway:P
" Sandbox " is not a type or genre of games. It is a feature that is normally included in games. The most prevelant that comes to mind is in the GTA series. " Sandbox " is a feature that means nothing more than allowing a player to ignore the current story / progression line and do whatever they want in the world.
UO isnt the same game. I consider it more of a Hybrid now. Swg is a Hybrid also imo (thats going to get me flamed LOL!) Wurm, Mabinogi and ToD are very small population wise and F2p. on this forum F2p games aren't even considered MMOs lol! I try not to wake the trolls. Once I start listing every freaking F2p these guys will BBQ me. anyway since you seem to know so much about every freaking game thats labeled Sandbox care to make a list for us all? Hell if im missing some that arent like second life (Player driven Ad campaign disguised as a game) let me know. Also i went through the thread again real quick I didnt see any post naming games I didn't list from you. If you could quote it for me that would be great.
You're proving my point for me. If you get to determine what falls into the sandbox category and what doesn't, then the myths you're disproving have no standing. I can say "all sandbox games are in space" because EvE is the only game I consider to be a real sandbox game, but that doesn't make it true. Sandbox games are too hard to classify with "myths," so there's no point in trying. As you've shown, the only way to do it is to count out certain games that people can easily argue are part of the sandbox genre.
Why so hostile? I never said anything about knowing "every freaking game" (in fact I admitted that I did not know about every sandbox game on the market). I'm sorry if you're taking personal offence to my posts or something, but I'm merely pointing out your faulty reasoning.
I'm assuming the last part was not directed at me because I never said anything about naming games.
I have seen many a post in the Ryzom forums of newbies complaining that being a gatherer only was very difficult.
Hard yes... but not impossible. There's always low level players to sell stuff to, and they need lower Q mats.
Regretfully, not many "sandbox" games are like Ryzom...
Ryzom is what a third of the sandbox market.
We have three games Eve, Ryzom and Wurm and im being nice by adding wurm (it has like 100 players)
Swg is no more and UO is shit compared to what it used to be.
Hell, If you add in Darkfall im 100% right on the button.
It's a little hard to compare Eve but even my beloved Eve has gated content, Ever warp into a 0.0 belt with a starter frigate?? lol *insta pop*
I want to jump in here and give ryzom some recognition.
Its a great skill based game. There is pvp but ryzom is not pvp focused. This one is for the pve fans. For now its 100% free until some means of charging a monthly fee is developed. A new publisher / dev team has acquired the game.
The community for me has been helpful and overall mature. Chat is often busy with questions, answers and general topics.
Its different than any other mmorpg out there imo. The learning curve might be steep for some but its not eve online steep. There is a pdf maual available. If you like sandbox type gameplay you should give it a try.
Comments
It doesn't apply to every game. In fact, I'm fairly certain I gave you an example: Second Life. Second Life is a sandbox game where vets/noobs are no different in skill values and can travel to any of the same areas of the game world. I agree that the vast majority of games have differences between vets and noobs and that exploration is limited by character skill level, that's a given, but not all games do. Once again, please do not try to make a comprehensive feature list for sandbox games, there are very few game mechanics that apply to all of them.
Also, EvE, Ryzom, and Darkfall are not the only sandboxes out right now, so please do research before making claims that apply to "all sandbox" games. Sure, most of the claims you made do apply to EvE, Ryzom, and Darkfall, but that doesn't mean they apply to all sandbox games.
Seriously enough with the second life crap, Once it stops being a player run AD campaign i'll consider it a game.
Now for a list of sandbox games that arent like Secondlife? Eve,Ryzom,Wurm,ToD,Mabinogi and the hybrids? AO and Runescape. Did i miss any that weren't real cash scams like SL?
Hell I could add in about 5 sandbox games coming out before 2010 also, believe me I know whats out there.
Hell I've only been playing sandbox games since UO, I guess I know nothing
You did miss some which I named some in my posts. But you selectively ignored my posts.
I wonder why that is?
First of all, I'm not going to get in an argument with you about whether Second Life is a game or not. That would just lead to us arguing over the definition of a "game," and that's completely off topic. Point is, Second Life breaks those myths, whether it's a game or not.
Secondly, you originally said EvE, Ryzom, and Darkfall were the only sandbox games, except you seem to be systematically adding to the list. There are likely more sandbox games than you know about, and there are likely more sandbox games than I know about as well, which is exactly my point. It is close to impossible to classify all sandbox games with certain "myths," especially when you don't even list (or know about) all the games out there.
Finally, please stop with the martyrdom. I respect your opinions, but when you omit or neglect to find evidence, it hurts your argument.
Oh, and you've been playing sandbox games since UO? Funny how that didn't appear on the list...
Two of the biggest features (IMO), that separate the themepark MMOs from the non-linear MMOs.
1) Narrow class systems. It's not so much the fact that they're class based, but more about how cookie cutter they are. Very little customization options or spec options. Some times this is intentional, some times things turn out this way as players discover that most of the skills/specs just don't work. So, you end up with a situation where every character of a specfic class is almost exactly the same.
2) Quest based. This was a big turning point that shuffled MMORPGs much closer to linear-single-player-RPG territory. Now, every thing is about quests. Development is completely focused on churning out more quests and you're rewarded more for questing than any thing else. You just managed to solo a tough group of mobs? Great! Too bad you only got 1/10th the xp you could have made from one of those mindless fed-ex quests. Zones are built around quest hubs that support a tiny level range and you're basically hand held from one quest hub to the next. No exploring the game world for you.
First of all, I'm not going to get in an argument with you about whether Second Life is a game or not. That would just lead to us arguing over the definition of a "game," and that's completely off topic. Point is, Second Life breaks those myths, whether it's a game or not.
Secondly, you originally said EvE, Ryzom, and Darkfall were the only sandbox games, except you seem to be systematically adding to the list. There are likely more sandbox games than you know about, and there are likely more sandbox games than I know about as well, which is exactly my point. It is close to impossible to classify all sandbox games with certain "myths," especially when you don't even list (or know about) all the games out there.
Finally, please stop with the martyrdom. I respect your opinions, but when you omit or neglect to find evidence, it hurts your argument.
Oh, and you've been playing sandbox games since UO? Funny how that didn't appear on the list...
UO isnt the same game. I consider it more of a Hybrid now.
Swg is a Hybrid also imo (thats going to get me flamed LOL!)
Wurm, Mabinogi and ToD are very small population wise and F2p. on this forum F2p games aren't even considered MMOs lol! I try not to wake the trolls. Once I start listing every freaking F2p these guys will BBQ me.
anyway since you seem to know so much about every freaking game thats labeled Sandbox care to make a list for us all?
Hell if im missing some that arent like second life (Player driven Ad campaign disguised as a game) let me know.
Also i went through the thread again real quick I didnt see any post naming games I didn't list from you. If you could quote it for me that would be great.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
you got a point... there are too many of the quest/class based mmo's altough quest based just makes it another wow copy, and hell we got too many of those already! class based well that is ok since its not wow copy but still no fun... sandbox games are what quite a number of people like but its to hard for people to create a real sandbox:( so in the end they focuse on those two and it just becomes alot more of those copies! more games like eve and perhaps wurm (no monthly payment ofcourse a one time payment is enough) is whats preferred a free game (i mean free like in action free, money free would never happen to a good game) where we got lotsa things to do.
so in the end a quest based game just ends up with 1 try and its booring noone wants to repeat everything they did over and over again just because they are done with all the quests! so that concludes my version no reply wanted because i won't read it anyway:P
" Sandbox " is not a type or genre of games. It is a feature that is normally included in games. The most prevelant that comes to mind is in the GTA series. " Sandbox " is a feature that means nothing more than allowing a player to ignore the current story / progression line and do whatever they want in the world.
You're proving my point for me. If you get to determine what falls into the sandbox category and what doesn't, then the myths you're disproving have no standing. I can say "all sandbox games are in space" because EvE is the only game I consider to be a real sandbox game, but that doesn't make it true. Sandbox games are too hard to classify with "myths," so there's no point in trying. As you've shown, the only way to do it is to count out certain games that people can easily argue are part of the sandbox genre.
Why so hostile? I never said anything about knowing "every freaking game" (in fact I admitted that I did not know about every sandbox game on the market). I'm sorry if you're taking personal offence to my posts or something, but I'm merely pointing out your faulty reasoning.
I'm assuming the last part was not directed at me because I never said anything about naming games.
Hard yes... but not impossible. There's always low level players to sell stuff to, and they need lower Q mats.
Regretfully, not many "sandbox" games are like Ryzom...
Ryzom is what a third of the sandbox market.
We have three games Eve, Ryzom and Wurm and im being nice by adding wurm (it has like 100 players)
Swg is no more and UO is shit compared to what it used to be.
Hell, If you add in Darkfall im 100% right on the button.
It's a little hard to compare Eve but even my beloved Eve has gated content, Ever warp into a 0.0 belt with a starter frigate?? lol *insta pop*
I want to jump in here and give ryzom some recognition.
Its a great skill based game. There is pvp but ryzom is not pvp focused. This one is for the pve fans. For now its 100% free until some means of charging a monthly fee is developed. A new publisher / dev team has acquired the game.
The community for me has been helpful and overall mature. Chat is often busy with questions, answers and general topics.
Its different than any other mmorpg out there imo. The learning curve might be steep for some but its not eve online steep. There is a pdf maual available. If you like sandbox type gameplay you should give it a try.