They had no idea so many people would be drawn to this type of gameplay at all. I bet their investors are kicking themselves over how much money they COULD loose if Aventurine doesn't turn this around.
Which in its self is wonder, they had estimated 200k on signup day and surely they knew how many signed up for beta?
but guess its been so long they figured they lost a few....
played M59,UO,lineage,EQ,Daoc,Entropia,SWG,Horizons,Lineage2.EQ2,Vangaurd,Irth online, DarkFall,Star Trek and many others that did not make the cut or i just plain forgetting about.
This niche is a goldmine waiting to happen. It's been neglected WAY to long. WoW may have introduced a lot of new people to the genre but more & more people are thirsting for a game with substance, like Darkfall.
For the last few years people have tried MANY diffferent MMO's, niche and otherwise. Big start up subscriptions doesn't mean they stick with it or that is is a popular long term game. It may well turn out to be wildly popular but I get the feeling a lot of people are just bored of the current crop of MMO's and are willing to try anything rather then there actually being that big a dedicated interest in the area.
My hope is though that the game developers haven't screwed the pooch already.
Hardcore / Old Skool PvPers would always talk on the boards of different games about wanting FFA PvP and Full Loot. Others would dismiss this as a small minority / small niche of players that actually wanted this kind of game play.
Even if Tasos and Friends are slacking on the game, we have to give them some credit because they FINALLY listened to this group of players and gave us what we wanted (even if they still have a whole lot more they need to give).
This niche is a goldmine waiting to happen. It's been neglected WAY to long. WoW may have introduced a lot of new people to the genre but more & more people are thirsting for a game with substance, like Darkfall.
More like the idea of Darkfall. Sadly the execution is very different from the idea
They didn't underestimate. I doubt they were too stupid to take 1 day to do some market research on how popular this particular type of MMORPG would have been.
Look at beta apps, look at forum interest/activity, look at demand for similar PvP games, look at how many played AC, UO, SB, etc.. Last, but not least, look at how many people were downloading their client prior to release.
They had easily accessable information at their fingertips. So either they are incredibly stupid, or are simply lying about underestimating the demand but don't have the management skills to have been properly prepared. The latter is clearly the true case.
Hardcore / Old Skool PvPers would always talk on the boards of different games about wanting FFA PvP and Full Loot. Others would dismiss this as a small minority / small niche of players that actually wanted this kind of game play. Even if Tasos and Friends are slacking on the game, we have to give them some credit because they FINALLY listened to this group of players and gave us what we wanted (even if they still have a whole lot more they need to give).
The amount of fucking time they have invested in developing this game, it deserves to do moderatly well if not better.
I swear if I was a developer on this game for EIGHT years and had put in so thousands of hours into it only to see it fail at the final hurdle....I'd stab a puppy
This niche is a goldmine waiting to happen. It's been neglected WAY to long. WoW may have introduced a lot of new people to the genre but more & more people are thirsting for a game with substance, like Darkfall.
More like the idea of Darkfall. Sadly the execution is very different from the idea
Worry more about the "follow through." That will decide the fate.
I do not think they did. They also wanted to start with a small player base and build up.
Most of the people applying for this are your normal fly by nighters. I was one in warhammer, not one in aoc cause i played that for a while.
even if the launch went perfectly 70-80% probably would leave the game anyhow after the first months. They would find they do not enjoy the griefing and the full loot. People are treating this like the launch of a major MMO its not, was never meant to be. But a bunch of kiddies think its warhammer number 2 and mobbing it.
One of the reasons this is going badly is because this is a niche game but everyone thinks they are part of the niche and as only time will tell alot won't be. I am not saying these people are not "HARDCORE" they will just not enjoy this type of game. They may like the ability to face people in even fights, they might want instant action, they may not like the 20-30 minute walks to kill something, they may not like the mobs harder to kill AI, they may want quests, they may want better crafting.
If they really wanted this game to have mass appeal they could of done the following. The the capital,starter cities, and surrounding areas and make them safe zones. Keep the hard mobs, but put in tons of rather well written quests. Have some sort of controled pvp like open arena, racial faction (same race) combat, and racial combat. This would act like empire space in eve. All the player controled cities however would be pull loot anf FFA. This would be like eve online basically.
This game will rule much like EVE because of the simple fact that players have an impact on the world. Territorial lines will constantly be shifting and it is this kind of dynamic world most seasoned and serious gamers want to experience.
Many of the people crying now to get into the first week of the game won't be here in month two because they think the niche is a lie and they won't die and get all their shit taken off them often and once they're in it will just be like wow.
If Warhammer proved one thing from its launch it's that there are well over 500000 mmo gamers who are currently bored with their current mmo or not playing one at all. Edit: and the 500000 that I mentioned are the ones that didn't continue subs after the first month.
Aventurine have tried all they can to keep darkfall low profile so they didnt get swamped (no advertising, essentially no official website, very few updates) yet still the masses clamour at the door.
I think a growing gold farmer market that failed to find business in AoC and WAR have something to do with the sign-up and pre-order problems.
I also think that economics forced a small business to release too early and without proper testing on even a very incomplete game.
But I also think they'll work their way through this, and the game itself in even this basic form is pretty good. I beta tested the last 3 weeks and loved it, and am keenly interested in playing while it grows.
Completly. They had no idea so many people would be drawn to this type of gameplay at all. I bet their investors are kicking themselves over how much money they COULD loose if Aventurine doesn't turn this around. Will they? only time....and money will tell.
Turn what around? They cant GET enough people in their game. That is not the sign of a sinking ship my friend. Having to many people interested in your game is not a problem in the long run.....may be a problem to a unprepared release..but not in the long run at all.
There are tons of people that are begging them to take our money so that we can play. The only people kicking themselves are the people that had the chance to invest in DF and did not.
I do not think they did. They also wanted to start with a small player base and build up.
Most of the people applying for this are your normal fly by nighters. I was one in warhammer, not one in aoc cause i played that for a while.
even if the launch went perfectly 70-80% probably would leave the game anyhow after the first months. They would find they do not enjoy the griefing and the full loot. People are treating this like the launch of a major MMO its not, was never meant to be. But a bunch of kiddies think its warhammer number 2 and mobbing it.
One of the reasons this is going badly is because this is a niche game but everyone thinks they are part of the niche and as only time will tell alot won't be. I am not saying these people are not "HARDCORE" they will just not enjoy this type of game. They may like the ability to face people in even fights, they might want instant action, they may not like the 20-30 minute walks to kill something, they may not like the mobs harder to kill AI, they may want quests, they may want better crafting.
If they really wanted this game to have mass appeal they could of done the following. The the capital,starter cities, and surrounding areas and make them safe zones. Keep the hard mobs, but put in tons of rather well written quests. Have some sort of controled pvp like open arena, racial faction (same race) combat, and racial combat. This would act like empire space in eve. All the player controled cities however would be pull loot anf FFA. This would be like eve online basically.
Thats fine from a players point of view and I agree hole heartly with what you said.
BUT, Aventurine is a business at the end of the day and has only one main goal in mind, and that is to make money, there not going to make it if they give off the appearance of being incompitant.
they should have allowed for the influx and then downgraded everything once the dust had settled and had "removed" all the dead wood...i.e Fly by night players.
This game will rule much like EVE because of the simple fact that players have an impact on the world. Territorial lines will constantly be shifting and it is this kind of dynamic world most seasoned and serious gamers want to experience.
Of course a lot of people that play games do so just to relax as they already have imortant things to do in the real world and such highly stressed activities in a "passtime" seem to be a little psycho or intence. Those that like these types of games will love it if it survives but I am guessing, as a previous poster pointed out, most will try it and move on to a game that is more relaxed and has a community not so highly strung.
If they really wanted this game to have mass appeal they could of done the following. The the capital,starter cities, and surrounding areas and make them safe zones. Keep the hard mobs, but put in tons of rather well written quests. Have some sort of controled pvp like open arena, racial faction (same race) combat, and racial combat. This would act like empire space in eve. All the player controled cities however would be pull loot anf FFA. This would be like eve online basically.
Yes, if they want mass appeal, they will have to do much of what you say. I do like how EVE has created their world, essentially creating Empire Space for the non-PvPers and people who just want a break from it. There's low-sec for people who want to be mildly challenged and zero-sec for those who want no holds barred PvP. And does any of that make EVE any less "hardcore?" Nope. Darkfall is so big that I can see the possibility of this. Or simply have great swaths of land around the starter cities be the equivalent of EVE's Empire Space. Maybe more guard towers that can serve as EVE's Concord Police.
Ultimately, I would like to see a massive world like Darkfall that combines all elements: world PvP, controlled PvP but mainly for arena type battles (more orderly competition based stuff like gladiators, etc), PvE, quests, dungeons and raiding. Give spaces for PvE'ers to thrive but make most of the world open PvP/full loot, etc. Just like EVE!
This game will rule much like EVE because of the simple fact that players have an impact on the world. Territorial lines will constantly be shifting and it is this kind of dynamic world most seasoned and serious gamers want to experience.
I have to disagree with your statement, but just with the word "most." This is a niche game, after all. I consider myself a "seasoned and serious gamer" and have no interest at all this game. I think you generalized a wee bit to much there.
Completly. They had no idea so many people would be drawn to this type of gameplay at all. I bet their investors are kicking themselves over how much money they COULD loose if Aventurine doesn't turn this around. Will they? only time....and money will tell.
Turn what around? They cant GET enough people in their game. That is not the sign of a sinking ship my friend. Having to many people interested in your game is not a problem in the long run.....may be a problem to a unprepared release..but not in the long run at all.
There are tons of people that are begging them to take our money so that we can play. The only people kicking themselves are the people that had the chance to invest in DF and did not.
I didn't mean it like that.
I meant they need to turn it around so that the investers wont loose prospective cash from all these player they never thought would buy into it.
Hense the reason I say they under estimated the demand.
This game will rule much like EVE because of the simple fact that players have an impact on the world. Territorial lines will constantly be shifting and it is this kind of dynamic world most seasoned and serious gamers want to experience.
This game will rule much like EVE because of the simple fact that players have an impact on the world. Territorial lines will constantly be shifting and it is this kind of dynamic world most seasoned and serious gamers want to experience.
This game will rule much like EVE because of the simple fact that players have an impact on the world. Territorial lines will constantly be shifting and it is this kind of dynamic world most seasoned and serious gamers want to experience.
Comments
Which in its self is wonder, they had estimated 200k on signup day and surely they knew how many signed up for beta?
but guess its been so long they figured they lost a few....
played M59,UO,lineage,EQ,Daoc,Entropia,SWG,Horizons,Lineage2.EQ2,Vangaurd,Irth online, DarkFall,Star Trek
and many others that did not make the cut or i just plain forgetting about.
This niche is a goldmine waiting to happen. It's been neglected WAY to long. WoW may have introduced a lot of new people to the genre but more & more people are thirsting for a game with substance, like Darkfall.
For the last few years people have tried MANY diffferent MMO's, niche and otherwise. Big start up subscriptions doesn't mean they stick with it or that is is a popular long term game. It may well turn out to be wildly popular but I get the feeling a lot of people are just bored of the current crop of MMO's and are willing to try anything rather then there actually being that big a dedicated interest in the area.
My hope is though that the game developers haven't screwed the pooch already.
Hardcore / Old Skool PvPers would always talk on the boards of different games about wanting FFA PvP and Full Loot. Others would dismiss this as a small minority / small niche of players that actually wanted this kind of game play.
Even if Tasos and Friends are slacking on the game, we have to give them some credit because they FINALLY listened to this group of players and gave us what we wanted (even if they still have a whole lot more they need to give).
More like the idea of Darkfall. Sadly the execution is very different from the idea
Preorder Diablo III | Preorder Guild Wars II
They didn't underestimate. I doubt they were too stupid to take 1 day to do some market research on how popular this particular type of MMORPG would have been.
Look at beta apps, look at forum interest/activity, look at demand for similar PvP games, look at how many played AC, UO, SB, etc.. Last, but not least, look at how many people were downloading their client prior to release.
They had easily accessable information at their fingertips. So either they are incredibly stupid, or are simply lying about underestimating the demand but don't have the management skills to have been properly prepared. The latter is clearly the true case.
The amount of fucking time they have invested in developing this game, it deserves to do moderatly well if not better.
I swear if I was a developer on this game for EIGHT years and had put in so thousands of hours into it only to see it fail at the final hurdle....I'd stab a puppy
More like the idea of Darkfall. Sadly the execution is very different from the idea
Worry more about the "follow through." That will decide the fate.
They didn't underestimate the market.
They underestimated their ability.
Fixed
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I am SOO glad I didn't pre-order this.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Fixed
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I am SOO glad I didn't pre-order this.
Damn you beat me too it!
I do not think they did. They also wanted to start with a small player base and build up.
Most of the people applying for this are your normal fly by nighters. I was one in warhammer, not one in aoc cause i played that for a while.
even if the launch went perfectly 70-80% probably would leave the game anyhow after the first months. They would find they do not enjoy the griefing and the full loot. People are treating this like the launch of a major MMO its not, was never meant to be. But a bunch of kiddies think its warhammer number 2 and mobbing it.
One of the reasons this is going badly is because this is a niche game but everyone thinks they are part of the niche and as only time will tell alot won't be. I am not saying these people are not "HARDCORE" they will just not enjoy this type of game. They may like the ability to face people in even fights, they might want instant action, they may not like the 20-30 minute walks to kill something, they may not like the mobs harder to kill AI, they may want quests, they may want better crafting.
If they really wanted this game to have mass appeal they could of done the following. The the capital,starter cities, and surrounding areas and make them safe zones. Keep the hard mobs, but put in tons of rather well written quests. Have some sort of controled pvp like open arena, racial faction (same race) combat, and racial combat. This would act like empire space in eve. All the player controled cities however would be pull loot anf FFA. This would be like eve online basically.
This game will rule much like EVE because of the simple fact that players have an impact on the world. Territorial lines will constantly be shifting and it is this kind of dynamic world most seasoned and serious gamers want to experience.
Many of the people crying now to get into the first week of the game won't be here in month two because they think the niche is a lie and they won't die and get all their shit taken off them often and once they're in it will just be like wow.
If Warhammer proved one thing from its launch it's that there are well over 500000 mmo gamers who are currently bored with their current mmo or not playing one at all. Edit: and the 500000 that I mentioned are the ones that didn't continue subs after the first month.
Aventurine have tried all they can to keep darkfall low profile so they didnt get swamped (no advertising, essentially no official website, very few updates) yet still the masses clamour at the door.
I think a growing gold farmer market that failed to find business in AoC and WAR have something to do with the sign-up and pre-order problems.
I also think that economics forced a small business to release too early and without proper testing on even a very incomplete game.
But I also think they'll work their way through this, and the game itself in even this basic form is pretty good. I beta tested the last 3 weeks and loved it, and am keenly interested in playing while it grows.
Once upon a time....
Turn what around? They cant GET enough people in their game. That is not the sign of a sinking ship my friend. Having to many people interested in your game is not a problem in the long run.....may be a problem to a unprepared release..but not in the long run at all.
There are tons of people that are begging them to take our money so that we can play. The only people kicking themselves are the people that had the chance to invest in DF and did not.
Thats fine from a players point of view and I agree hole heartly with what you said.
BUT, Aventurine is a business at the end of the day and has only one main goal in mind, and that is to make money, there not going to make it if they give off the appearance of being incompitant.
they should have allowed for the influx and then downgraded everything once the dust had settled and had "removed" all the dead wood...i.e Fly by night players.
Of course a lot of people that play games do so just to relax as they already have imortant things to do in the real world and such highly stressed activities in a "passtime" seem to be a little psycho or intence. Those that like these types of games will love it if it survives but I am guessing, as a previous poster pointed out, most will try it and move on to a game that is more relaxed and has a community not so highly strung.
Yes, if they want mass appeal, they will have to do much of what you say. I do like how EVE has created their world, essentially creating Empire Space for the non-PvPers and people who just want a break from it. There's low-sec for people who want to be mildly challenged and zero-sec for those who want no holds barred PvP. And does any of that make EVE any less "hardcore?" Nope. Darkfall is so big that I can see the possibility of this. Or simply have great swaths of land around the starter cities be the equivalent of EVE's Empire Space. Maybe more guard towers that can serve as EVE's Concord Police.
Ultimately, I would like to see a massive world like Darkfall that combines all elements: world PvP, controlled PvP but mainly for arena type battles (more orderly competition based stuff like gladiators, etc), PvE, quests, dungeons and raiding. Give spaces for PvE'ers to thrive but make most of the world open PvP/full loot, etc. Just like EVE!
I have to disagree with your statement, but just with the word "most." This is a niche game, after all. I consider myself a "seasoned and serious gamer" and have no interest at all this game. I think you generalized a wee bit to much there.
Turn what around? They cant GET enough people in their game. That is not the sign of a sinking ship my friend. Having to many people interested in your game is not a problem in the long run.....may be a problem to a unprepared release..but not in the long run at all.
There are tons of people that are begging them to take our money so that we can play. The only people kicking themselves are the people that had the chance to invest in DF and did not.
I didn't mean it like that.
I meant they need to turn it around so that the investers wont loose prospective cash from all these player they never thought would buy into it.
Hense the reason I say they under estimated the demand.
Fixed
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I am SOO glad I didn't pre-order this.
Ya that's what i meant hehe
Wait, didn't Shadowbane offer that?
Wait, didn't Shadowbane offer that?
ya...
this game will be dead within 4-6 weeks
Wait, didn't Shadowbane offer that?
ya...
this game will be dead within 4-6 decades
Fixed.