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Contempt, or clulessness?
Obee
Member Posts: 1,550
The OBoards are in an uproar over the recently announced loot card additions to the card game, compounded by the revelation that the loot items are concieved, developed, and implemented by the SWG dev team at SOE Austin, which conflicts with the whole 'The SWG team has nothing to do with the card game so don't discuss it on the SWG forums!' meme. Adding to the fire was forum mod Elias calling a poster a liar, which seems to be a false charge, on top of being completely unprofessional.
Said forum mod posted the follo0wing thread in the OBoard announcement forum:
forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m
The title of the thread is "GET SOME HOT LOOT IN THIS WEEKEND'S STAR WARS GALAXIES™ TRADING CARD GAME LOOT TOURNAMENT!". Not only is the word loot used twice in the thread title, but the thread title consists completely of capital letters, something no other thread title in the announcement forum does.
The announcement post is an abvious display of the absolute contempt the folks at SOE have towards their customers. You would have to be quadruple jointed to attempt the contortions needed to justify the post as an innocent example of cluelessness on Elias' part.
It is a shame that a company not only allows such contempt to be displayed by an employee, but SOE seems to also encourage it. People constantly come to SOE's defense by claiming they are a business whose goal is simply to make money. That defense rings quite hollow when the folks at SOE continue to go out of their way to piss off their customers, and thus lose money.
If it wasn't for the fact that SOE's games themselves are enough to keep customers away, the open hostility towards their existing customers would be.
Comments
What I see happening is Devs makiing excuses the why we cant do this or that, because we have limited resources. No Duh its all going towards the TCG.
Guess what. People are going to buy packs in hopes of getting or trading for the loot they want. All the indignation in the world ain't gonna change that. I don't see anyone cancelling their account over this.
Always notice what you notice.
Some have said they will or have and some have canceled when they introduced the TCG to begin with.
You are correct people are going to buy the packs for the loot. That is why the TCG was added in the first place. Anyone saying otherwise does not live in reality.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
My post had nothing to do with the validity of the card game, or if people cancel their accounts. The point is the folks at SOE have a long history of showing outright contempt and hostility towards their customers. This is just the latest example. Given the forum riot happening on the OBoard, the announcement post was a not even slightly hidden slap back at the playerbase.
I honestly feel sorry for the current subscribers of SOE's games, and even more for those subscribed to SWG. It's quite sad an pathetic. Sure it is their own decision that allows them to accept such abuse, but it doesn't make it any less tragic. It is like watching a dog that is constantly beaten hesitantly approaching its master looking for some shred of affection, yet scared to death of being beaten again.
Some have said they will or have and some have canceled when they introduced the TCG to begin with.
You are correct people are going to buy the packs for the loot. That is why the TCG was added in the first place. Anyone saying otherwise does not live in reality.
I'd be willing to bet the card game makes more money than SWG itself does at this point. That is why the SWG dev team is making more items for the card game, while the size of the team is slowly being reduced.
I'd say clueless contempt.
Great answer!
Great answer!
Its true they have shown it time and again.
Strange words about a game that is merging servers. I guess things like this had no effect on anyone and people left for other reasons. Maybe, because there are so many reasons to choose from.
And I have seen people cancel over this, even people that used to staunchly defend the game.
Main issues were people losing a whack of cash gambling for virtual items and crafters getting the shaft by having crafted goods replaced by superior TCG loot items.
It's my opinion that SOE is testing how far they can push RMT gambling for virtual loot before SWTOR comes out. I believe that SWG is about to take a hit when its monopoly of the StarWars IP comes to an end. I don't know this for a fact because it involves the future, but I wouldn't be surprised. In light of this, it's my opinion that the game is being used as a test-bed for new business models that are severely lopsided in favour of the service provider. In other words, the service provider gets a ton of cash and the player ends up with very little, if anything, of value.
And I have seen people cancel over this, even people that used to staunchly defend the game.
Main issues were people losing a whack of cash gambling for virtual items and crafters getting the shaft by having crafted goods replaced by superior TCG loot items.
It's my opinion that SOE is testing how far they can push RMT gambling for virtual loot before SWTOR comes out. I believe that SWG is about to take a hit when its monopoly of the StarWars IP comes to an end. I don't know this for a fact because it involves the future, but I wouldn't be surprised. In light of this, it's my opinion that the game is being used as a test-bed for new business models that are severely lopsided in favour of the service provider. In other words, the service provider gets a ton of cash and the player ends up with very little, if anything, of value.
I'd bet that SOE is making more revenue from the card game than they are from SWG subscriptions. The folks who are upset over the card game are the ones that aren't spending money on it. The need to pacify the folks upset over the card game depends on the number of folks who are willing to cancel over it. I doubt very many who have accepted the abuse SOE has heaped upon them for the past several years are going to much more than accept the card game. I really doubt there is anything SOE could do at this point to cause any significant number of the small playerbase SWG has left to quit.
The only chance SWG has to exist for more than a couple months past the release of TOR is the card game. The EQ games are the ones being used as a test bed for SOE's upcoming games' revenue system. The Smed said as much in several interviews about the Station Cash system. SWG's TCG is little more than an added revenue stream that is likely keeping the game afloat.
And I have seen people cancel over this, even people that used to staunchly defend the game.
Main issues were people losing a whack of cash gambling for virtual items and crafters getting the shaft by having crafted goods replaced by superior TCG loot items.
It's my opinion that SOE is testing how far they can push RMT gambling for virtual loot before SWTOR comes out. I believe that SWG is about to take a hit when its monopoly of the StarWars IP comes to an end. I don't know this for a fact because it involves the future, but I wouldn't be surprised. In light of this, it's my opinion that the game is being used as a test-bed for new business models that are severely lopsided in favour of the service provider. In other words, the service provider gets a ton of cash and the player ends up with very little, if anything, of value.
I'd bet that SOE is making more revenue from the card game than they are from SWG subscriptions. The folks who are upset over the card game are the ones that aren't spending money on it. The need to pacify the folks upset over the card game depends on the number of folks who are willing to cancel over it. I doubt very many who have accepted the abuse SOE has heaped upon them for the past several years are going to much more than accept the card game. I really doubt there is anything SOE could do at this point to cause any significant number of the small playerbase SWG has left to quit.
The only chance SWG has to exist for more than a couple months past the release of TOR is the card game. The EQ games are the ones being used as a test bed for SOE's upcoming games' revenue system. The Smed said as much in several interviews about the Station Cash system. SWG's TCG is little more than an added revenue stream that is likely keeping the game afloat.
It's my guess that SOE is using EQ and SWG to test two different types of RMT. In EQ, you have the item shops, despite Smed saying in the past that he was against them. In SWG you have cash for virtual card packs, hoping that they may contain a loot item. I wouldn't be surprised if this is set up to determine which approach is more cash positive and tolerable for players.
I don't think the sole purpose is market research mind you; these RMT add-ons are another way to get additional cash from players without really adding much to the game. Things that you used to loot or craft in SWG for example, are now available only in the card packs, or on the market after someone has purchased enough card packs to get lucky.
And I have seen people cancel over this, even people that used to staunchly defend the game.
Main issues were people losing a whack of cash gambling for virtual items and crafters getting the shaft by having crafted goods replaced by superior TCG loot items.
It's my opinion that SOE is testing how far they can push RMT gambling for virtual loot before SWTOR comes out. I believe that SWG is about to take a hit when its monopoly of the StarWars IP comes to an end. I don't know this for a fact because it involves the future, but I wouldn't be surprised. In light of this, it's my opinion that the game is being used as a test-bed for new business models that are severely lopsided in favour of the service provider. In other words, the service provider gets a ton of cash and the player ends up with very little, if anything, of value.
I'd bet that SOE is making more revenue from the card game than they are from SWG subscriptions. The folks who are upset over the card game are the ones that aren't spending money on it. The need to pacify the folks upset over the card game depends on the number of folks who are willing to cancel over it. I doubt very many who have accepted the abuse SOE has heaped upon them for the past several years are going to much more than accept the card game. I really doubt there is anything SOE could do at this point to cause any significant number of the small playerbase SWG has left to quit.
The only chance SWG has to exist for more than a couple months past the release of TOR is the card game. The EQ games are the ones being used as a test bed for SOE's upcoming games' revenue system. The Smed said as much in several interviews about the Station Cash system. SWG's TCG is little more than an added revenue stream that is likely keeping the game afloat.
It's my guess that SOE is using EQ and SWG to test two different types of RMT. In EQ, you have the item shops, despite Smed saying in the past that he was against them. In SWG you have cash for virtual card packs, hoping that they may contain a loot item. I wouldn't be surprised if this is set up to determine which approach is more cash positive and tolerable for players.
I don't think the sole purpose is market research mind you; these RMT add-ons are another way to get additional cash from players without really adding much to the game. Things that you used to loot or craft in SWG for example, are now available only in the card packs, or on the market after someone has purchased enough card packs to get lucky.
EQ and EQ2 have had the Legends of Norrath TCG for quite a while before SWG got one. The EQ/EQ2 card game is set up exactly like the SWG one, except with the EQ games, there is an extremely small chance that you can loot a card off of an in-game MOB. They still have the blind lottery set up of having a small chance to buy a pack of cards that will give you some in-game item, and the EQ/EQ2 crowd have been complaining about the items for the same reasons the SWG crowd have, except EQ and EQ2 have much larger dev teams, so their card game doesn't impact the main games' development nearly as much.
The SWG card game came about because the EQ/EQ2 card game made SOE a bunch of money. As the old saying goes, "A fool and his money are soon parted", and SOE's products are definitely being marketed to fools.
And I have seen people cancel over this, even people that used to staunchly defend the game.
Main issues were people losing a whack of cash gambling for virtual items and crafters getting the shaft by having crafted goods replaced by superior TCG loot items.
It's my opinion that SOE is testing how far they can push RMT gambling for virtual loot before SWTOR comes out. I believe that SWG is about to take a hit when its monopoly of the StarWars IP comes to an end. I don't know this for a fact because it involves the future, but I wouldn't be surprised. In light of this, it's my opinion that the game is being used as a test-bed for new business models that are severely lopsided in favour of the service provider. In other words, the service provider gets a ton of cash and the player ends up with very little, if anything, of value.
I'd bet that SOE is making more revenue from the card game than they are from SWG subscriptions. The folks who are upset over the card game are the ones that aren't spending money on it. The need to pacify the folks upset over the card game depends on the number of folks who are willing to cancel over it. I doubt very many who have accepted the abuse SOE has heaped upon them for the past several years are going to much more than accept the card game. I really doubt there is anything SOE could do at this point to cause any significant number of the small playerbase SWG has left to quit.
The only chance SWG has to exist for more than a couple months past the release of TOR is the card game. The EQ games are the ones being used as a test bed for SOE's upcoming games' revenue system. The Smed said as much in several interviews about the Station Cash system. SWG's TCG is little more than an added revenue stream that is likely keeping the game afloat.
It's my guess that SOE is using EQ and SWG to test two different types of RMT. In EQ, you have the item shops, despite Smed saying in the past that he was against them. In SWG you have cash for virtual card packs, hoping that they may contain a loot item. I wouldn't be surprised if this is set up to determine which approach is more cash positive and tolerable for players.
I don't think the sole purpose is market research mind you; these RMT add-ons are another way to get additional cash from players without really adding much to the game. Things that you used to loot or craft in SWG for example, are now available only in the card packs, or on the market after someone has purchased enough card packs to get lucky.
Which items would that be Arc?
I was under the impression that all the stuff folks get from cards was entirely new, and never in game before. Would be interesting to know what items they took away, and gave to the card game. Not things discontinued prior either...but stuff they took out for the express purpose of putting into card game. Say this cause SOE got rid of mana stones, and other stuff in EQ, then put them in, to be gambled for, when they put in the plat sinks for a short time.
Speaking of the card game...do the usual supects, in the vet forum, think they have misrepresented things enough?
Seeing as I think every vet that is left, that still posts here reguarly that is, is in this thread...let me ask ya: How many more years you guys intend to be a joke to fellow gamers?
I tell ya...I have been gone from EQ for like 2 years, just re-upped to do some casual play this time around instead of raiding...EQ has been a pretty good game for me since 01. Some bad things...yeah SOE messed up stuff...but nothing like you guys make them out to be. Unless you were in a cutting edge raid guild, most folks didnt have to deal with expansions with unfinished end zones in expansions.
EQ2...my wife has made this her main game for like 3 yrs now. She is max lvl, and raids reguarly in guild. We have never purchased her a single card, and she seems to do well for herself. I hear no complaints about the card game destroying her guild. It has gotten a little worse since Scott Hartsman(think was his name) left...but still a great game overall.
Yet you guys try to make it out that all SOE customers are bent over backwards cause of changes. Granted we wouldnt be happy if they were selling end game gear, but if you check, it is all harmless fluff as far as I can tell. The day it crosses that line is when folks go ballistic...us included.
Cause even if the card game was killing SOE, or Smed was running around his office doing whatever it is that he does...does it really matter? It has been over 3 years now, and here you guys are...the same cast that day after day/week after week rehash the same topics over and over. Or you look for non-stories, and attempt to flame them into something major.
I dont care what anyone says...this type of obsession is mentally unhealthy. Are your family and friends aware of your compulsions over a video game? Do they understand you guys are rediculed for your actions in gaming circles.
Not that total strangers opinions should mean anything...so what about the folks in your lives? I dont care how guys attempt to sugar coat it...if truth was known, I would say better than 95% of Americans would feel you need help as well. So I am just curious if enough people around you know what you are up to.
Perhaps then someone might intervene, and get ya the help ya need.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
And I have seen people cancel over this, even people that used to staunchly defend the game.
Main issues were people losing a whack of cash gambling for virtual items and crafters getting the shaft by having crafted goods replaced by superior TCG loot items.
It's my opinion that SOE is testing how far they can push RMT gambling for virtual loot before SWTOR comes out. I believe that SWG is about to take a hit when its monopoly of the StarWars IP comes to an end. I don't know this for a fact because it involves the future, but I wouldn't be surprised. In light of this, it's my opinion that the game is being used as a test-bed for new business models that are severely lopsided in favour of the service provider. In other words, the service provider gets a ton of cash and the player ends up with very little, if anything, of value.
I'd bet that SOE is making more revenue from the card game than they are from SWG subscriptions. The folks who are upset over the card game are the ones that aren't spending money on it. The need to pacify the folks upset over the card game depends on the number of folks who are willing to cancel over it. I doubt very many who have accepted the abuse SOE has heaped upon them for the past several years are going to much more than accept the card game. I really doubt there is anything SOE could do at this point to cause any significant number of the small playerbase SWG has left to quit.
The only chance SWG has to exist for more than a couple months past the release of TOR is the card game. The EQ games are the ones being used as a test bed for SOE's upcoming games' revenue system. The Smed said as much in several interviews about the Station Cash system. SWG's TCG is little more than an added revenue stream that is likely keeping the game afloat.
It's my guess that SOE is using EQ and SWG to test two different types of RMT. In EQ, you have the item shops, despite Smed saying in the past that he was against them. In SWG you have cash for virtual card packs, hoping that they may contain a loot item. I wouldn't be surprised if this is set up to determine which approach is more cash positive and tolerable for players.
I don't think the sole purpose is market research mind you; these RMT add-ons are another way to get additional cash from players without really adding much to the game. Things that you used to loot or craft in SWG for example, are now available only in the card packs, or on the market after someone has purchased enough card packs to get lucky.
Which items would that be Arc?
I was under the impression that all the stuff folks get from cards was entirely new, and never in game before. Would be interesting to know what items they took away, and gave to the card game. Not things discontinued prior either...but stuff they took out for the express purpose of putting into card game. Say this cause SOE got rid of mana stones, and other stuff in EQ, then put them in, to be gambled for, when they put in the plat sinks for a short time.
Speaking of the card game...do the usual supects, in the vet forum, think they have misrepresented things enough?
Seeing as I think every vet that is left, that still posts here reguarly that is, is in this thread...let me ask ya: How many more years you guys intend to be a joke to fellow gamers?
I tell ya...I have been gone from EQ for like 2 years, just re-upped to do some casual play this time around instead of raiding...EQ has been a pretty good game for me since 01. Some bad things...yeah SOE messed up stuff...but nothing like you guys make them out to be. Unless you were in a cutting edge raid guild, most folks didnt have to deal with expansions with unfinished end zones in expansions.
EQ2...my wife has made this her main game for like 3 yrs now. She is max lvl, and raids reguarly in guild. We have never purchased her a single card, and she seems to do well for herself. I hear no complaints about the card game destroying her guild. It has gotten a little worse since Scott Hartsman(think was his name) left...but still a great game overall.
Yet you guys try to make it out that all SOE customers are bent over backwards cause of changes. Granted we wouldnt be happy if they were selling end game gear, but if you check, it is all harmless fluff as far as I can tell. The day it crosses that line is when folks go ballistic...us included.
Cause even if the card game was killing SOE, or Smed was running around his office doing whatever it is that he does...does it really matter? It has been over 3 years now, and here you guys are...the same cast that day after day/week after week rehash the same topics over and over. Or you look for non-stories, and attempt to flame them into something major.
I dont care what anyone says...this type of obsession is mentally unhealthy. Are your family and friends aware of your compulsions over a video game? Do they understand you guys are rediculed for your actions in gaming circles.
Not that total strangers opinions should mean anything...so what about the folks in your lives? I dont care how guys attempt to sugar coat it...if truth was known, I would say better than 95% of Americans would feel you need help as well. So I am just curious if enough people around you know what you are up to.
Perhaps then someone might intervene, and get ya the help ya need.
LOL! A poster obsessed enough to come into the vet refuge to obsess and whine over the posters he considers obsessed. Who needs help more? I suspect such 'concern' is nothing more than typical trollage. /yawn
And I have seen people cancel over this, even people that used to staunchly defend the game.
Main issues were people losing a whack of cash gambling for virtual items and crafters getting the shaft by having crafted goods replaced by superior TCG loot items.
It's my opinion that SOE is testing how far they can push RMT gambling for virtual loot before SWTOR comes out. I believe that SWG is about to take a hit when its monopoly of the StarWars IP comes to an end. I don't know this for a fact because it involves the future, but I wouldn't be surprised. In light of this, it's my opinion that the game is being used as a test-bed for new business models that are severely lopsided in favour of the service provider. In other words, the service provider gets a ton of cash and the player ends up with very little, if anything, of value.
I'd bet that SOE is making more revenue from the card game than they are from SWG subscriptions. The folks who are upset over the card game are the ones that aren't spending money on it. The need to pacify the folks upset over the card game depends on the number of folks who are willing to cancel over it. I doubt very many who have accepted the abuse SOE has heaped upon them for the past several years are going to much more than accept the card game. I really doubt there is anything SOE could do at this point to cause any significant number of the small playerbase SWG has left to quit.
The only chance SWG has to exist for more than a couple months past the release of TOR is the card game. The EQ games are the ones being used as a test bed for SOE's upcoming games' revenue system. The Smed said as much in several interviews about the Station Cash system. SWG's TCG is little more than an added revenue stream that is likely keeping the game afloat.
It's my guess that SOE is using EQ and SWG to test two different types of RMT. In EQ, you have the item shops, despite Smed saying in the past that he was against them. In SWG you have cash for virtual card packs, hoping that they may contain a loot item. I wouldn't be surprised if this is set up to determine which approach is more cash positive and tolerable for players.
I don't think the sole purpose is market research mind you; these RMT add-ons are another way to get additional cash from players without really adding much to the game. Things that you used to loot or craft in SWG for example, are now available only in the card packs, or on the market after someone has purchased enough card packs to get lucky.
Which items would that be Arc?
I was under the impression that all the stuff folks get from cards was entirely new, and never in game before. Would be interesting to know what items they took away, and gave to the card game. Not things discontinued prior either...but stuff they took out for the express purpose of putting into card game. Say this cause SOE got rid of mana stones, and other stuff in EQ, then put them in, to be gambled for, when they put in the plat sinks for a short time.
Speaking of the card game...do the usual supects, in the vet forum, think they have misrepresented things enough?
Seeing as I think every vet that is left, that still posts here reguarly that is, is in this thread...let me ask ya: How many more years you guys intend to be a joke to fellow gamers?
I tell ya...I have been gone from EQ for like 2 years, just re-upped to do some casual play this time around instead of raiding...EQ has been a pretty good game for me since 01. Some bad things...yeah SOE messed up stuff...but nothing like you guys make them out to be. Unless you were in a cutting edge raid guild, most folks didnt have to deal with expansions with unfinished end zones in expansions.
EQ2...my wife has made this her main game for like 3 yrs now. She is max lvl, and raids reguarly in guild. We have never purchased her a single card, and she seems to do well for herself. I hear no complaints about the card game destroying her guild. It has gotten a little worse since Scott Hartsman(think was his name) left...but still a great game overall.
Yet you guys try to make it out that all SOE customers are bent over backwards cause of changes. Granted we wouldnt be happy if they were selling end game gear, but if you check, it is all harmless fluff as far as I can tell. The day it crosses that line is when folks go ballistic...us included.
Cause even if the card game was killing SOE, or Smed was running around his office doing whatever it is that he does...does it really matter? It has been over 3 years now, and here you guys are...the same cast that day after day/week after week rehash the same topics over and over. Or you look for non-stories, and attempt to flame them into something major.
I dont care what anyone says...this type of obsession is mentally unhealthy. Are your family and friends aware of your compulsions over a video game? Do they understand you guys are rediculed for your actions in gaming circles.
Not that total strangers opinions should mean anything...so what about the folks in your lives? I dont care how guys attempt to sugar coat it...if truth was known, I would say better than 95% of Americans would feel you need help as well. So I am just curious if enough people around you know what you are up to.
Perhaps then someone might intervene, and get ya the help ya need.
Once again you state something is misrepresented but provide what exactly was misrepresented and nothing to back said statement up.
So..once again what was misrepresented?
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
Valaren....since I quoted it this time even..let me leave no doubt in your mind....
"Things that you used to loot or craft in SWG for example, are now available only in the card packs, or on the market after someone has purchased enough card packs to get lucky"
Total misrepresentation. Like I indicated before. SOE didnt take anything away, yet according to this they did.
As for the other guy, and his denial caption: You got that exactly right. The vet members posting here daily are about denial. I have said it several times the past 3 years...Dr Phil would have a field day with anyone that felt the need to protest about a video game for over 3 years. I get the "smack on the hand" award for still taking a peek ,at this train wreck, from time to time.
Mourning a person hardcore, for over 3 years, would be unhealthy, but we are talking about a game.
Until the vets that still post here daily let it go, I doubt any of them ever find another MMO to play. Instead they will lament the past 365 days a year.
As a fellow gamer, it is kind of sad when you think of it in those terms
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I would say that half the posters in here are still players. Or go back and play more than they admit to. Thats one thing SOE knows, is they always come back home to visit. Another thing is this is the only place to post any negative observations, SOE forum modds are worse than Nazis.
The other half would be the super pissed off ex-vets; thier posts about the current game are not very relevant. The only thing you can take from them is, the game used to be better. More complex and populated. But eh the rose colored goggles are blinding most of them. I played since start, and still do. I can tell you each game change had its positives and negatives.
What continues to drive this? They know they are right about the direction for the game. Ex-vets are right in that SWG should have been kept as a sandbox, and that development towards general mmo or WOW clone is not the best direction for the game. The game had so much potential in this area of open play, the best crafting system ever put into mmo. But all the aspects of the game have been slowely eliminated by the carebears. I can tell you that decay was a good thing for a sandbox.
Not really a misrepresentation just not stated properly. Before the TCG or the NGE for that matter new items introduced to the game were done via schematics. You cannot deny that fact. It is now a loot based game. All you have to do is look at the number of items introduced via the TCG vs. the game. Someone posted the ratio on the oboards but I do not have time to go digging for it.
The vets here are not about denial. They are about consumer advocacy. We all know the game that we liked is gone and the majority would never go back if SOE brought it back. Most vets here encourage people to try the game and make up their own minds.
Some tool on the oboards keeps lamenting the fact that SOE is in the business to make money and people should just shut up about the TCG. While true they want to make money a good business can make money without pissing off their customers eliciting even more spending on their product.
The last Friday Feature was all about the TCG even though according to SOE it is a separate game from SWG. The link they provided was all about the LOOT and not the card game. Separate game? My left foot.
That Friday Feature post from Elias was locked and unstickied because of the outcry. When was the last time that was done?
What is sad is people not seeing the TCG for what it is. Again good businesses can make money and make their customers pleased. SOE is certainly not one of them.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
I agree bullseye...That is one of the reasons why SOE only markets to former players. I try it everytime I get a vet trial offer hoping to find something to spark my interest but the alas it is dead for me.
One thing I disagree with is the carebear comment. The customer in this situation should not get the blame. This whole fiasco is soley the responsibility of management and their poor decisions. The sad thing is most of the problems from the bad decisions made were forseeable. It is one of the reasons SWG and SOE's management is a case study in what NOT to do in a MMO but unfortunately they seem to still make those bad decisions.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
The developer time spent to make those items, features and the entire structure/upkeep behind the whole subsystem of the card game comes directly from the swg game designers. That is something that was taken away, because you previously got 100% of their efforts as part of your subscription fee.
Just because they didn't tangibly take away items doesn't mean they are not taking away resources from the game. These items in the card game didn't just appear on their own.
Some of the items in the card game directly relate to classes that have been waiting years for a needed revamp or any sort of content, yet soe found some way to double charge customers for the same amount of effort. Who is really misrepresenting things in this thread?
And I have seen people cancel over this, even people that used to staunchly defend the game.
Main issues were people losing a whack of cash gambling for virtual items and crafters getting the shaft by having crafted goods replaced by superior TCG loot items.
It's my opinion that SOE is testing how far they can push RMT gambling for virtual loot before SWTOR comes out. I believe that SWG is about to take a hit when its monopoly of the StarWars IP comes to an end. I don't know this for a fact because it involves the future, but I wouldn't be surprised. In light of this, it's my opinion that the game is being used as a test-bed for new business models that are severely lopsided in favour of the service provider. In other words, the service provider gets a ton of cash and the player ends up with very little, if anything, of value.
Hi I'm one of the people who used to defend SWG who has quit over this.
Before I go on let me make a few things known. I'm not a fan of the Pre-CU System, really to tell the truth I felt the Pre-CU lacked a how did SOE put it... Star Wary's feel to the game. I'm no fan of this whole war over the damn thing. Really I am someone who was just happy as long as I could role play, find things to do or fly my X-Wing blast other ships.
I'm also someone who believes RMT Systems "can" be a good thing for MMO's if it is done right. I've talked to people who would love to play MMO's however they are turned off by the whole $10 to $15 dollars a month system that most use. If it was up to me, I would put a RMT system in whatever game, however have it based on a "point" system. Think how Microsoft and Nintendo use a point system for downloading new content or games. Leave the $15 a month idea in just now your monthly payment would allow you to get a sum of points every month. That you can spend or save on items... Still the idea would be keeping the game free to play, that way more people could get into it.
Getting off all of that let me get into why I dislike what SOE has done with this and a few other things...
First things first, this is not gambling. Before you scream at me about how it is, I am one who does gamble and I enjoy it. And there is some skill used in gambling, knowing the odd's or telling if that person across from you has a better hand then you do. There is also another thing that comes with gambling, a level of enjoyment! Yes you could lose or you could win but you can have fun when doing it!
The card game loot is just "random" there is no real enjoyment with it unless you really like the card game. And even then those loot cards are just too random, from what I have seen there are no odds or chances with the card game loot cards. Some drop a bit more then others... But still there isn't really any enjoyment that comes with it.
Still the fault with all of this is the level of time and money SOE is putting into this.
See my over all fault with this is what has ended up being the underlining fault with SWG as a whole. SOE just ignores everything that is wrong with SWG has a whole, something that in my eyes then have done from the goddamn frakking Beta till now. They put all their time and money into something that could work, ignore those who do play and *gasp* care about the game! And go about doing what a small group of people who chances are will run off to the next best thing want them to do.
Yeah MMO's in the end are about making a few bucks, but SOE could have found a better way to go about it.
Actually, your description of the TCG matches the process of gambling via lotteries like Powerball and Mega-Millions. There's no skill involved and no one sitting across from you to compete with when playing the lottery. There's no level of enjoyment, unless you win. And like you said, the loot cards are extremely random -- just like the lottery numbers in Powerball or Mega Millions. In both the TCG and Powerball/Mega-Millions, you have to pay to play (either a subscription fee or for a pack of cards in SWG).
The only differences are 1) SOE doesn't publish chances to win like Powerball and Mega Millions, and 2) PB and MM are regulated by state and federal agencies.
Other than that, it seems your description of the payment/distribution method employed by the TCG matches that of regulated gambling game like Powerball and Mega Millions.
under what rock have you been living??
this is nothing new at all, its SOE as we have known them for years. im not gonna go into the whole "is the gambling or not" but why do ppl expect SOE to change suddenly? or do you just like to rehash the same old crap everytime for the next decennia till SOE ceases to exist?
MMOs currently playing: -
About to play: Lord of the Rings Online
Played: Anarchy Online (alltime favorite) and lots of f2p titles (honorable mentions: 9Dragons, Martial Heroes, Dekaron, Atlantica Online)
And I have seen people cancel over this, even people that used to staunchly defend the game.
Main issues were people losing a whack of cash gambling for virtual items and crafters getting the shaft by having crafted goods replaced by superior TCG loot items.
It's my opinion that SOE is testing how far they can push RMT gambling for virtual loot before SWTOR comes out. I believe that SWG is about to take a hit when its monopoly of the StarWars IP comes to an end. I don't know this for a fact because it involves the future, but I wouldn't be surprised. In light of this, it's my opinion that the game is being used as a test-bed for new business models that are severely lopsided in favour of the service provider. In other words, the service provider gets a ton of cash and the player ends up with very little, if anything, of value.
I'd bet that SOE is making more revenue from the card game than they are from SWG subscriptions. The folks who are upset over the card game are the ones that aren't spending money on it. The need to pacify the folks upset over the card game depends on the number of folks who are willing to cancel over it. I doubt very many who have accepted the abuse SOE has heaped upon them for the past several years are going to much more than accept the card game. I really doubt there is anything SOE could do at this point to cause any significant number of the small playerbase SWG has left to quit.
The only chance SWG has to exist for more than a couple months past the release of TOR is the card game. The EQ games are the ones being used as a test bed for SOE's upcoming games' revenue system. The Smed said as much in several interviews about the Station Cash system. SWG's TCG is little more than an added revenue stream that is likely keeping the game afloat.
It's my guess that SOE is using EQ and SWG to test two different types of RMT. In EQ, you have the item shops, despite Smed saying in the past that he was against them. In SWG you have cash for virtual card packs, hoping that they may contain a loot item. I wouldn't be surprised if this is set up to determine which approach is more cash positive and tolerable for players.
I don't think the sole purpose is market research mind you; these RMT add-ons are another way to get additional cash from players without really adding much to the game. Things that you used to loot or craft in SWG for example, are now available only in the card packs, or on the market after someone has purchased enough card packs to get lucky.
Which items would that be Arc?
I was under the impression that all the stuff folks get from cards was entirely new, and never in game before. Would be interesting to know what items they took away, and gave to the card game. Not things discontinued prior either...but stuff they took out for the express purpose of putting into card game. Say this cause SOE got rid of mana stones, and other stuff in EQ, then put them in, to be gambled for, when they put in the plat sinks for a short time.
Speaking of the card game...do the usual supects, in the vet forum, think they have misrepresented things enough?
Seeing as I think every vet that is left, that still posts here reguarly that is, is in this thread...let me ask ya: How many more years you guys intend to be a joke to fellow gamers?
I tell ya...I have been gone from EQ for like 2 years, just re-upped to do some casual play this time around instead of raiding...EQ has been a pretty good game for me since 01. Some bad things...yeah SOE messed up stuff...but nothing like you guys make them out to be. Unless you were in a cutting edge raid guild, most folks didnt have to deal with expansions with unfinished end zones in expansions.
EQ2...my wife has made this her main game for like 3 yrs now. She is max lvl, and raids reguarly in guild. We have never purchased her a single card, and she seems to do well for herself. I hear no complaints about the card game destroying her guild. It has gotten a little worse since Scott Hartsman(think was his name) left...but still a great game overall.
Yet you guys try to make it out that all SOE customers are bent over backwards cause of changes. Granted we wouldnt be happy if they were selling end game gear, but if you check, it is all harmless fluff as far as I can tell. The day it crosses that line is when folks go ballistic...us included.
Cause even if the card game was killing SOE, or Smed was running around his office doing whatever it is that he does...does it really matter? It has been over 3 years now, and here you guys are...the same cast that day after day/week after week rehash the same topics over and over. Or you look for non-stories, and attempt to flame them into something major.
I dont care what anyone says...this type of obsession is mentally unhealthy. Are your family and friends aware of your compulsions over a video game? Do they understand you guys are rediculed for your actions in gaming circles.
Not that total strangers opinions should mean anything...so what about the folks in your lives? I dont care how guys attempt to sugar coat it...if truth was known, I would say better than 95% of Americans would feel you need help as well. So I am just curious if enough people around you know what you are up to.
Perhaps then someone might intervene, and get ya the help ya need.
"Which items would that be?" I'll respond to this part ^_^. To clarify my meaning, which is different than how it was interpreted, I'll pose two questions:
How did people used to get new vehicles and structures?
How are they getting new vehicles and structures now?
Hopefully that will clarify the point I was trying to communicate in my earlier post
. The meaning you derived from my comments was not my intended message. I see how my earlier comments could be interpreted in a number of ways, so hopefully this clarifies.
If that's still fuzzy, I think the clearest way to summarize would be to say people used to get vehicles and structures from crafters with ingame (fake) currency. Now they are hoping to obtain them by paying real cash to the Sony online store for virtual card packs. In other words, people used to obtain vehicles and structures one way, and now there is another model of delivery. It's my opinion that the previous model was more consumer-friendly.