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End of the biggest WOW botting company.
Furor
Member Posts: 374
Glider is the biggest paid botting wow company developer for wow, and it is getting shut down for good. Lets hope it is forever.
Good job blizzard.
The Glider outcome and copyright law
by Mike Schramm { 1 hour ago }
Feb 4th, 2009
Well, as you may have heard, Blizzard has all but finished off Glider -- pending one more appeal (which doesn't seem likely to win), Glider is getting shut down for good next week. Good news for Blizzard, but not so good for copyfighters? Blizzard used a controversial argument for copyright in its case -- they claimed that by circumventing the ToS, the Glider folks were actually breaking copyright law, and an interest group called Public Knowledge didn't take kindly to that. They argued that a decision for Blizzard would mean that any software developer could then prevent any customer from doing anything they didn't want to do, just by calling it a copyright infrigement. Blizzard responded that "buying" your WoW software was actually "licensing" it, but of course that didn't settle anyone down.
And now, Glider has lost -- so what next?
Tim Lee over at Ars Technica does call the decision "troubling" -- the Judge in the case made a distinction between the "literal elements" of Warcraft (the actual bits on the game disc), and the "non-literal" elements (the gameplay itself), and that Blizzard didn't control access to the "literal elements" (anyone can make copies of the game disc), but that they did control access to the "non-literal elements" (as the Warden program keeps you from using apps like Glider). If it sounds confusing, that's because it is, but the bottom line is this: the decision in this case does basically confirm that Glider circumvented part of Blizzard's copyright, and thus, if taken completely literally, this precedent could mean that anyone who did anything with any software that was against anything in the Terms of Use could be sued under copyright law.
Whew. Of course, we're not done yet -- the case is still moving on to a higher court, and if by some chance it passes appeal there, we could have another outcome. And this precedent is shaky to say the least -- another case could come along and knock that part of Blizzard's argument out (that wasn't the only argument they had against Glider). But despite the fact that Blizzard and many players are cheering that the bots lost, they may have opened up a rift in copyright law that interest groups on the other side may have a little trouble closing.
Comments
Cheating is Cheating regardless. Yes Bots are a big bissness. Unfortentely lazy so called gammers would rather let the bot grind for gold or loot. then spending the countless hours of doing it themself. To me that is a cheater. Bots also and these are better known as "GOLD TROLLS" go on the trade chat and beg ppl to go to there web site and buy FAKE gold with REAL money. Anyone stupid enough to do this deserve's to get caught. Im my book they are also CHEATERS. If you are a Pally Hack and you think you are all that because you can take on the highest elite out there with ease you are not a real gammer and I laugh in your face it is like "oooooo look at me i am a Pally god you cant touch me." I would not even give you the time of day for that matter.
A REAL gammer will grind his way to the top with the help from others who have been playing longer then he or she has and are a real help to "Newbs" because they once were a "Newb" So I appluad Blizz for taking on these CHEATERS!!!!
Botting is wrong, that much I agree with. But the way he's framing his response, though, makes me wonder whether there will be any impact on copyright law. Thankfully I don't live in the US, where you have all those limitations on reverse-engineering and such that made even talking about the infamous Sony Rootkit illegal.
I'm really happy of Blizzard winning the case since it means less bots. But at the same time I'm disappointed a how it came. Helping people to break rules of a game they agreed to and even earning by it remains legal and unpunishable, and copyright owners are granted even more rights as if those weren't too large already. Would it really be so hard to pass a law to make earning money by cheating in games or by helping other people to cheat in games illegal?
More Bad Law in WoW Glider Case
www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/02/more-bad-law-wow-glider-case
arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/01/judges-ruling-that-wow-bot-violates-dmca-is-troubling.ars
EQ2 fan sites
Glider + WoW + Ebay combined they can pay your bills buy you a car and lots of food ahh the good days.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/01/judges-ruling-that-wow-bot-violates-dmca-is-troubling.ars
Good job Blizzard? I dont think so.
Look, I understand why Blizz arent happy. But why dont Blizz ask themselves a few questions about WoW.
Why do people buy levelled characters, pay for levelling services or bot software? Because people are lazy, but also because levelling is sh1t boring and time wasting. Also, for anyone with a reasonable income, its actually cheaper to pay for someone else to level your character if your hourly wage is greater than the power levelling service cost. Basically, people time is more valuable then wasting it levelling from 1 to 80.
Why did Blizz make Character transfers between accounts available? That just enables people to glider-level and sell characters with less cost. It allows a current player to buy a new character into his current account. He doesnt need to maintain two subs. And Blizz charge a fee for the transfer. So they further enable character selling, they cash in on it, then they turn around and say oh no, botting is bad. What a load of sh1t.
And what does it matter if people bot. Does it affect your end-game? No. Does it ruin your raiding? No. In fact it probably helps, because your guild can just buy a cheap level 80 healer rather than live through the horror of levelling one. And hell, if you're levelling along, barely staying awake from boredom, and you see an enemy player botting, it atleast gives you an easy "pvp" kill.
Ask yourself this. If levelling from 1 to 80 was actually fun, how many people would buy/use botting software? How many people would buy characters? If MMOs were less timesink, more timefun.
Instead of preventing botting, they should look at removing the reasons why people bot. Or perhaps thats just too hard.
That just about says it all. There's also the fact that some people would only be happy if ALL games came complete with a big, shiny "I WIN" button, but they try to cover this up by spouting tired old cliches such as "they have a life" and "why shouldn't someone buy their way to success". I could easily pay to have people level my characters, and in fact I have family members who would love to play my characters for me, free of charge, should I feel so inclined, but I prefer to do it myself.
The three lowest forms of MMO players are gold buyers, botters and people who use power-levelling services. I have nothing but contempt for them and the services they use, and I'd report trash like them in a heartbeat.
As an aside, I really hope that the guy who wrote Glider has to hand over records of everyone who used his piece of shitware to Blizzard. I further hope that the costs of (eventually) losing his case ensures that he spends the next few years begging for loose change outside McDonalds. Ahhh, happy, happy thoughts...
That just about says it all. There's also the fact that some people would only be happy if ALL games came complete with a big, shiny "I WIN" button, but they try to cover this up by spouting tired old cliches such as "they have a life" and "why shouldn't someone buy their way to success". I could easily pay to have people level my characters, and in fact I have family members who would love to play my characters for me, free of charge, should I feel so inclined, but I prefer to do it myself.
The three lowest forms of MMO players are gold buyers, botters and people who use power-levelling services. I have nothing but contempt for them and the services they use, and I'd report trash like them in a heartbeat.
Number 4 is twinks; like the L19 muppets in WoW that hang around in Battlegrounds all day preying on legitimate low level characters who just fancied a bit of PvP fun as a break to the monotony of levelling.
I can "sort of" understand people who use powerlevelling services; after you've done it a few times the process is so dull and boring that leveling a new alt is just torturous and I can have some sympathy for wanting to avoid that .. not enough to do it myself, but still.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
That just about says it all. There's also the fact that some people would only be happy if ALL games came complete with a big, shiny "I WIN" button, but they try to cover this up by spouting tired old cliches such as "they have a life" and "why shouldn't someone buy their way to success". I could easily pay to have people level my characters, and in fact I have family members who would love to play my characters for me, free of charge, should I feel so inclined, but I prefer to do it myself.
The three lowest forms of MMO players are gold buyers, botters and people who use power-levelling services. I have nothing but contempt for them and the services they use, and I'd report trash like them in a heartbeat.
Number 4 is twinks; like the L19 muppets in WoW that hang around in Battlegrounds all day preying on legitimate low level characters who just fancied a bit of PvP fun as a break to the monotony of levelling.
I can "sort of" understand people who use powerlevelling services; after you've done it a few times the process is so dull and boring that leveling a new alt is just torturous and I can have some sympathy for wanting to avoid that .. not enough to do it myself, but still.
Yes, twinks who hang around like a fart in a spacesuit are a waste of space, but they're more to be laughed at than hated, at least to me. I find the "! wanna be a BIG fish in a VERY small pond" mentality pretty funny.
If you are able to make friends, you don't NEED powerlevelling services in MMOs. Friends can help ot with a boost here, a tough mob killed there, or maybe help out with a run of questing. Only sadsacks without real friends have to buy their way to the top - no-one wants to help them for free!
Amen. Games need to be about having fun, not grind.
This case, however, looks very bad for future legal implications.
i've seen some pretty ridiculous eulas, so this is kind of scary
More Bad Law in WoW Glider Case
www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/02/more-bad-law-wow-glider-case
arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/01/judges-ruling-that-wow-bot-violates-dmca-is-troubling.ars
I don't see what the issue is? Players agree to the EULA and should be held accountable if they break it. If players don't like it then don't break it or don't agree to it and don't play the game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
That's a bunch of BS. It was copyright infringement because they are minupulating the code in memory of the progarm. So yes that is copyright infringement. That is very much like reverse engineering.
IDK about the quality of judges,but they obviously are looking at it in a simplistic fashion.I am 100% against any TOS or FORCED license,because it basically gives the user NO rights.If you are spending money on this developer,you SHOULD have more rights than a promised exchange on a failing CD/DVD.The laws are VERY one sided and not fair what so ever.
I agree that the developer should have every right to their software,but they do not have the right to OWN the user,that is where the fine line is drawn.As far as i am concerned Blizzard does NOT have the right to imbed your system with any software outside of the purpose to witch you are buying the game.There is not one person out there that purchased WOW for the sake of getting a spyware program put onto their PC.
I think the law should be sort of simple and any judge /court should see the obvious reasoning behind certain decisions.One example is if a company tries to use ANYTHING from the game to profit for themselves,i do not believe anyone has a right to profit from the developers work.The problem that would arise is ALL the websites that make any kind of money by using a LOGO to link to their site.I believe this is ALWAYS in the copyright laws and should be,these sites need to ask for permission when using EXACT property.I saw this happen with HASBRO as they shut down many sites that did not get permission to post ANYTHING Hasbro related.
In the case of Blizzard claiming their Warden program is to safeguard their property,that is what the courts and laws are for,so they are pushing the laws to extend into the privacy of users ,and that IMO is breaking the law,this is what they should be fighting.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It is not only a victory for Blizzard, but one for this industry and the gaming community.
Well done!
One of the reasons I stopped playing WoW was because of people who thought I was a noob or noobish because I acuatlly wanted to play how I wanted to play. I didn't want to grind the same instance all day long waiting for "the uber sword" to drop... or I played BG when I wanted to..not just for a specific piece of gear cuz that's whatever one else did. I played a holy pally and I could heal like no one's business better than pallys who were geared better than me, but that's because I played the game. I didn't power lvl.. or use bots. Alot of the people who use bots or pay people to power lvl end up sucking because they didn't build the character themselves.
Anytime the game becomes boring or a chore.. it's time for a break...simple as that. I despise people who cheat their way to the top, because those are the same people who will steal from guild banks and basically some of the most undesireable people to play with. Since they don't earn things within the game, they place little value on things that are earned by others within the game.
MMORPG played in order played: Sims Online, WoW, CoX, EQ2, LinksRealm, LOTRO,TOR...and counting
Again, I don't see what the issue is. It's completely cut and dry.
Game Company: these are the things you can and cannot do while playing our game. Do you agree...
Player: "yes" I agree.
end of subject.
The only thing that I would say is that it players don't usually know the EULA until after they purchase the software. If something is added that seems to be repugnant to the player they really don't have a lot of recourse as open software is not returnable (usually).
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Good riddance.
But Blizzard should maybe sit down and think why bots are needed for many players, that means that a lot of players are spending a lot of in game time not having fun (not just Blizz but all MMO companies should). The point about a game is having fun and the more boring time you have the bigger the chanse that you loose your players even if the fun time are really fun.
Either it should be fun to grind or you shouldnt have to grind at all.
But that is of course not an excuse to cheat.
For better or for worse... Blizzard just opened up a can of worms for copyright laws.
There is no such thing as a FORCED ToS. A user who disagrees with the provisions of the ToS can simply decline to use the software. In the case of WoW (and many other MMOs) they can then return the software directly to the company for a refund.
If you do not want Warden installed on your computer then you simply uninstall WoW and Blizzard cannot force you to reinstall the game. When you are renting something, the renter has a right to require the rentee to use the property in a certain way and can reserve the right to monitor that you keep up your side of the agreement.
This is not good at all. Instead of just focusing on finding and banning botters, they go this route and open up a giant can of worms.
If MMO companies use this rule to prevent cheating, fine, but we all know big companies get out of hand. This could potentially hurt the mmo community.
The Official God FAQ
PLEASE PLEASE dont hate me. a long time ago SWG when it was pre cu, not pre nge but pre cu. anyway i baught some credits. I was really stupid back then or well ignorent. these services destroy games especially economy in games. actually the main reason for buying the credits was becuase the economy sucked in game, its kinda funny but our american goverment is kinda doing the same thing lol. anyway back on topic. i truly believe this is one of the major down falls of many MMO's. when the economy goes crafting and items on the bazar, trader, or auction go way up leaving the honest players out in the cold or doing endless grinding for in game money and then it causes a snow ball affect causing ingame money to be worth less. theres a lot to be learned here.
I have not buaght in game money since ive realized that is destroys games and makes the jerks who ruin these games rich. the only people who win are not the people buying the gold but the jerks who offer the services becuase in the long run your game will be ruined and palutted by gold farmers no econemy and well gold farming bots every where. face it it really takes away from the game when every charactor you walk up to gives you some fake reply or hey buy gold from us type crap.
as a true serius gamer i will not stand for it. I report all those tells i get about buying credits even if i know the GMs wont do anything about it. but we need to stand up and report these things send the GMs into tell hell so they will fix it. it will take a community to combat this these types of people i will not call them gamers becuase gamers they are not.
We may not all like Blizzard. But how can anyone defend the users and makers of Bots? Sure they call out the slippery slope argument (that way they dont defend the criminals directly ) but state "our liberty and american freedoms are at risk!!!"
I say, call a crook a crook. They made Bots! Of course they are in the wrong. IM sorry it took so many trials and judges to finally clarify it
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
Don't like the rules, don't play the game. If the EULA said you had to hand over your first born, you still don't have to click, "I agree". A videogame isn't a necessity. You don't NEED to play. You simply play something else. Thats competition.
I don't think BLizzard cares about whatever doomsayers cojur up. They care about THEIR game and Glider was allowing LOSERS to profit off of their hard earned work. If you made a game and some a-holes made a piece of software that was allowing them to profit off of your art, your sweat, your tears, you'd be doing everything in your power to shut them down and thats exactly what Blizzard did. If Blizzard actually loses money from this, because less people will buy the game, it only goes to show how much they actually care. They'd rather the game be played in the spirit THEY intended instead another few $100k a month or whatever Glider users amounted to..
You'd have to be pretty braindead not to realise the simplicity of it all. BLizzzard made a game. People who don't work for Blizzard are profiting off of the game they made. BLizzard doesn't want them to. Blizzard sues and wins. Everyone that actually matters is happy. Whats so difficult to understand?
Again, I don't see what the issue is. It's completely cut and dry.
Game Company: these are the things you can and cannot do while playing our game. Do you agree...
Player: "yes" I agree.
end of subject.
The only thing that I would say is that it players don't usually know the EULA until after they purchase the software. If something is added that seems to be repugnant to the player they really don't have a lot of recourse as open software is not returnable (usually).