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Consensus of the Quest Helper
Rayx0r
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,902
Curious, are players embracing this or rejecting it? Something about having to fully understand the quest objective really set this game apart from some of the newer games.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Comments
I am against it.
I loved the adventure element, having to read and understand quest descriptions. It made me feel like i am playing real RPG
And in some cases when you end up clueless , you could always check lotrodb , or lorebook sites...
But there it is, the new simplification. LOTRO now more than ever moves towards casual play, solo play, and easy mode.
Perhaps Turbine realized this is their target market...
I myself left. Reason would probably be total neglect for Burglar class ... but also the state of MMOs (all of them today)
Maybe in future some company decides to bring back complexity to MMO...but it seems we will have to wait for another decade...
Not really sure what to think yet... Im against quest tracker and hated it in WAR and AoC... but at the same time Im pretty lazy and check on the internet all the time so I will use it and save me some frustration
Lobo you really think Burglars are that bad now? I havent heard much complaint and I dont have much problems with mine. I hope they buff conjunctions thou..
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Burglars are ok for soloing. But they completely lost their place in groups. If you try to do /who search you will see Burglars are least played class. Which just shows where this class is heading.
It doesn't bother me, people can turn it off if they don't want to use it. At least I won't have to go to lotro mmodb anymore.
Playing - FFXIV, ESO
Played - FFXI, WoW, Lineage 2, Guild Wars, Aion, SWToR, LotRO, GW2, TERA, Rift, ArcheAge, TSW
Here you go...
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=253278
A giant thread about it. Enjoy!
And there are others.. this is just the largest. You should be able to get a very good idea about how the forum users feel.
And for the record (and my participation in that thread will also indicate) I would agree with you.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
*embracing it* Just means less trips to mmodb. If you dont want it/dont like it.. TURN IT OFF. I dont understand whats so hard to comprehend.
Regarding burgs being the least played class, that doesnt mean anything. Anytime you have multiple options (in this case, classes), there will be a least chosen one. Ok, so they buff Burgs so a lot of people decide to play them; then say LMs are the least chosen class so they start crying they need a buff because they are the least played class... its an endless cycle. Now i'm not saying their isnt anything wrong with burgs (I dont play one), i'm just saying that 'arguement' is no good.
Utterly reject.
Removes the exploration and adventure aspect from the game and caters to the impatiet who need to level cap asap.
Personally I won't turn it on.
BTW, I downloaded Atlantica online just to check it out. It has a quest guide mode where you click on a button and it literally runs you to the next person/mob/objective...even going through portals. You can just click a button, get up and leave you computer, come back and you'll be standing right next to the next person in the quest line or mobs you have to kill. It's utterly ridiculous...and funny as hell.
I don;t have a problem with it personally, but I can understand the frustration of others. It's easy to say you can turn it off, but knowing it's there somehow weighs on you. Not to mention, I have to be REALLY stumped to bother checking the DB, but if it's right there I think the temptation will be greater.
This will come of as elitist crap to some folks, apologies ahead of time.
I worry about the effect the feature will have on our community. Right now "ADD WoW kiddies" and the like tend to lose patience with the LoTRO and move on to other games fairly quickly. Not bashing WoW, but there is a certain type of gamer that will go in for WoW, AoC, GW or other fast paced MMOs and utterly miss the point of LoTRO. And quite honestly, based on my experience other MMOs, a lot of those players are assholes. The fact that you have to read, think, and sometimes even do some nearly aimless wandering to figure out quests in game means that only an extremely patient "smell the roses" type of gamer will dig LoTRO.
You can see the community that this leads to. By far one of the most mature and freindly communities I've encountered in an MMO. In my entire time in LoTRO, I can count on one hand the players that I've had to ignore (barring gold farmers near launch before Turbine got a handle on them). That is amazing. I think the fact that LoTRO bores the impatient (or those that cannot appreciate subltey) to tears has a lot to do with this. I worry that the quest helper will change that.
Atr the same time, Turbine is a buissiness. If dumbing the game down will expand the market appeal of LoTRO, they'd be pretty stupid not to do it. I just hope community that develops over the next few months isn't the trash that I'm used to in more popular MMOs.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Slippery slope.
I don't think that adding an optional tool for people who opt to use it; necessarily spells the end of mature gaming and the onset of a flood of "ADD Wow Kiddies".
I also don't think that people going to a third party site for quest directions for in game quests is intuitive.
The people who visit these sites will likely see this new tool as a boon, as it complements their existing preference for this sort of in game assistance. Those who do not uses these tools, and enjoy mostly or exclusively relying on text to find their next objective will in all likelihood continue to do without.
Truth is, how someone chooses to enjoy their time online is perfectly fine with me; it's their monthly sub to do as they wish with. If the option presented was:
Then I'd see an issue with it.
World of Warcraft is not a kiddie game, but it is extremely accessible. It's fun for a lot of people and the kind of people that would enjoy that type of MMO. The reason people don't play LOTRO has as many reasons, and on some level there is an unknown percentage of people who "might" be interested in playing LOTRO if they felt it was more accessible to "them".
Way I see it, the more people who choose to play LOTRO for WHATEVER their personal reason for doing so is a good thing. If LOTRO continues to succeed, it opens the door for new MMOs to stake their claim too. The worst thing that can happen is that the top 1-3 MMO's dominate the market, effectively stifling production of new titles as many will find the cost of creating and competing to build an MMO to be prohibitive.
This is happening currently, and in many cases design studios or publishers merging with their former competitors instead of competing with them. It's more cost effective and they can leverage huge resources together to provide a more "market friendly" set of games that the general public will consume.
So instead of looking down on a great feature that a select few of the LOTRO player base will use; the question we should be asking is what can we do as gamer's to support companies like Turbine to ensure that there are good titles like this for us to play in the years to come instead of:
World of Starcraft XXII: The Space King Returns...Again.
Burglars are ok for soloing. But they completely lost their place in groups. If you try to do /who search you will see Burglars are least played class. Which just shows where this class is heading.
Burglars are ok in general. You must have been absent for quite a while from the game.
Also note we are getting a nice buff in Book7.
Burglars are ok for soloing. But they completely lost their place in groups. If you try to do /who search you will see Burglars are least played class. Which just shows where this class is heading.
Burglars are ok in general. You must have been absent for quite a while from the game.
Also note we are getting a nice buff in Book7.
No we are not getting nice buff in book 7. All long treads on forums and negotiations with ZombieColumbus( burg and rk dev) yielded nothing. Cause they claim burgs are just fine as they are. But all we got for 60-60 new skills are 3 , conditional skills on 10 minutes timer (yes you read right 10 minutes) And to make it even more ridicilous 2 of 3 are uselles skills.
Still you can say its fine cause Burglars are totally capable of soloing (although Champion can solo 3x times enemies that would kill Burg)
Problem is related to groups.
Burglars used to bring a lot to groups. That was class original design.
They made conjuctions - Now LM or Guardian make more conjuctions than Burg can ever do. Plus Turbine nerfed Conjuctions
No need for Burglar...
They had CC.
LM have much much more powerfull CC. Even powerhouses Hunters have more powerfull CC
No need for Burg
They used to have good DPS
Now only class with lower DPS is Guardian
They used to be able to off tank
Not anymore - Turbine nerfed Evade
So they took all that made Burglar class valuable for groups. Nerfed the class over and over. And never gave us new skill or some benefit.
The new book 7 patch -
It made one useless skill on 10 minutes timer, have 5 minutes timer - but still remain uselles (even when slotted)
And it made "Gambler" trait line that nobody was using , bit faster (and nerfed it a bit , just to be consistent)
Burglars are ok for soloing. But they completely lost their place in groups. If you try to do /who search you will see Burglars are least played class. Which just shows where this class is heading.
Burglars are ok in general. You must have been absent for quite a while from the game.
Also note we are getting a nice buff in Book7.
No we are not getting nice buff in book 7. All long treads on forums and negotiations with ZombieColumbus( burg and rk dev) yielded nothing. Cause they claim burgs are just fine as they are. But all we got for 60-60 new skills are 3 , conditional skills on 10 minutes timer (yes you read right 10 minutes) And to make it even more ridicilous 2 of 3 are uselles skills.
Still you can say its fine cause Burglars are totally capable of soloing (although Champion can solo 3x times enemies that would kill Burg)
Problem is related to groups.
Burglars used to bring a lot to groups. That was class original design.
They made conjuctions - Now LM or Guardian make more conjuctions than Burg can ever do. Plus Turbine nerfed Conjuctions
No need for Burglar...
They had CC.
LM have much much more powerfull CC. Even powerhouses Hunters have more powerfull CC
No need for Burg
They used to have good DPS
Now only class with lower DPS is Guardian
They used to be able to off tank
Not anymore - Turbine nerfed Evade
So they took all that made Burglar class valuable for groups. Nerfed the class over and over. And never gave us new skill or some benefit.
The new book 7 patch -
It made one useless skill on 10 minutes timer, have 5 minutes timer - but still remain uselles (even when slotted)
And it made "Gambler" trait line that nobody was using , bit faster (and nerfed it a bit , just to be consistent)
Burglars are not a DPS class anyway.
Forums always are about complaints and people seem to never be happy.
According to people on forums all classes are broken and need fixing...
You're totally off by saying LM and Guardian pop up conj's more than Burg and lost me there. Nobody uses Gambler ? 6 out of 9 of our Burgs are Gamblers in kin, same in other burgs I've talked to...
To be honest, you just enjoy whining, sorry to say.
Enjoy your waiting for the perfect MMO but try not to impose your sadness on others by saying whatever comes to your mind, you probably haven't played Lotro for a long time?
Me and a friend have recently resub'd and are enjoying LoTRO once again, I personally enjoy the depth of the quest desriptions but I've always been one of those players thats had an issue in being able to focus my game-play, if the location of the quest is not readily available to me I tend to drift off and do something else along the way, yes it means I get to explore the game world but all of a sudden I've got a quest log full of grey/green quests that I keep losing track of.
I want this new tool to help me focus my time online, what little I have of it due to family life, as it's a tool that can be toggled, both sides of the argument get their own way, either stay as you are and discover the quest through exploration or turn the tool on and go directly to point a and complete the task.
I still want to enjoy the world around me and I'l still probably meander off and do something totally different to the current quest, but at least this time around I'l have a damn good idea what path I need to take to get back on track.
Great idea! I've only just started but I'm seeing a lot of stupid 'where is..' in the advice channel over and over again. It should help those people. Once I'm in the game a while, levelled up etc. I may get all elitist and scorn it but at the moment I like.
I can't understand LOTRO gamers who believe the addition of quest markers will "dumb" down LOTRO. First LOTRO isn't a mentally challenging game, period. No MMO has ever mentally challenged me. Reason I find them enjoyable, they are simple entertainment that has a nice social element and requires little thought. MMOs tend to be my relaxation after a hard day at work. If I want thought provoking, or challenging gaming, I definitely do not look at an MMO.
Second point, I believe the vast majority use MMODB. Those new to LOTRO do not know about MMODB and the addition of in game assistance is a great help. Those who know about MMODB and do not want the quest objectives because they are massochist can turn them off, although very likely they already know the locations having played through them previously. Basically these "elitists" need to stop whining so much.
I say BRAVO Turbine for adding the quest locations. Really if someone wants me to travel miles and kill off some goblins and collect some ears, they damn well better tell me EXACTLY where these goblins are located. Its the least they can do considering they typicall only pay a few silver for my services.
I don't get the crying about quest helper. I'm so sick of everyone that thinks they know best what features should be in a game and feel the need to try to force others to accept their decrees. NO ONE has to use it. Patch notes say the default is "OFF". You won't even have to change your UI to turn it off. Someone using quest helper isn't negatively impacting you unless you run a website that people currently use to find things so DON"T WORRY ABOUT IT.
Disclaimer: I want to be clear that I really enjoy the writing in lotro quests. It may not come off that way when in this post, but the game has much better story telling elements than most other mmos.
The problem isn't exactly this feature. It is the trend that is happening across most mmos right now with quests and immersion.
Check this option to turn on hints, this option to remove quest text delay, this option to turn on waypoints to your objectives, this option to make quest items flash and blink, this option to remove the story from the mechanical tasks in the quest, etc etc. It is getting so bad that you don't even need to loot monsters to get their head anymore in warhammer. I can be 100 yards away when I kill something with a doombolt and its head just appears in my inventory. *shrug*
Now I am speaking in broad strokes about features in many games, but they are slowly and steadily converging into one massive dumbed down aspect of gaming. I honestly have a hard time calling most of these quests anymore. They play more like tasks and chores. Go fetch someone a dozen fairy cakes, kill ten spiders that have been harrassing town, collect 60 owlbear feathers (with a drop rate of about 1 in 8). Grinding experience on randomly roaming mobs is slowly being replaced by running between to premarked locations on a minimap.
It seems every game is taking their turn in removing the importance of interacting with the game world, learning about its places and people, adventuring out to discover what mystery you are unfolding and where it might take you.
I see all these claims gamemakers have made the last several years about their games having 1,000's of quests, but most of them are just becoming bland little errands that npcs send you on to get a chunk of experience. Somehow quantity is replacing quality. XP is replacing experience [as in gameplay experience].
In my opinion, the genre is moving form one extreme (aimlessly grinding mobs) to the other (aimlessly grinding quests). The actions of gamemakers removing the need to explore, read text and interact with the npcs and quest information just signals how uninspiring the content is becoming. It is a white flag of surrender that suggests the developers know players are not having fun doing the actual quests and just want to get them over with in the most effecient manner possible.
I may be one of the few people that actually prefer grinding mobs over being a glorified Orkin or Fedex guy, but I don't see how dull, unimaginative quests that are so prevalent in most MMOs is any more or less dumbed down than going to a camp of mobs for an hour or two and killing them over and over until they change "con" color and you move on to another spot. Some of the LotRO questlines are quite good, but many of them are also LOL stupid, especially in the Shire IMO.
I agree the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of quest grinding. I'd like to see both mob grinding and questing as equally viable leveling options. I don't really see adding an optional system like quest helper as dumbing down. That's like saying radio presets is dumbing down radios or google is dumbing down the internet. You're just giving people an optional tool to make things more convenient.
Yeah, the shire quests leave a lot to be desired. Way to much fetching food for fat lazy hobbits. Now I understand the true reason the shire was burned to the ground.
As for mob grinding and quest grinding, that is exactly the point I was trying to make and I agree with your assesment as well. They can be enjoyable diversions, but it seems it is the core element (singular) now. Previously it was mob grinding and now it is becoming quest grinding. There is almost no middle ground and everything swinging towards the far extreme.
As for quest helper, it does dumb down the game, even though it might be optional now it is a trend. I don't know the specifics of how it works in lotro, but every other game that has this feature can make even well designed quests nothing more than mindless run/kill/collect tasks.
You can complete quests now without even knowing what it is you are doing, because almost every aspect is spelled out in either a flashing object, a system message across the screen or big giant X on the map. While I don't want to tell people how to play this does speak about the content of a game from a developers standpoint. The developers are putting in mechanics into the game that allow players to ignore the games content. The fact that developers feel there is a need for such an option speaks volumes about the gameplay being something that is worth skipping.
I've already commented on this ad infinitum on the main site but it seems that it bears repeating here.
It's not about forcing someone to do something or making them play the way you want to or that other people go to outside sources for this information or that it's "optional" and that one can turn it off and that that fact is hard to understand.
The inclusion of such a feature will not ruin the game nor will affect people who don't want to use it.
However, the inclusion of this feature as well as the inclusion of such things as the rune keeper, of the changing of the old forest, as well as several other recent changes begs the question as to where the game is headed.
So sure, there are people who don't really care about the game sticking to the source material or that it even is lord of the rings as some have said that they never liked the books or story but find the game fun.
But there is a contingent of people who are playing this because of it being close to the source material, and that it was initially more about the stories and journey of the game and less about loot grinds, rep grinds and end game raiding. The game really was about exploring the landscape and a sense of immersion that this brings.
However, with the inclusion of the quest tracker, handy though it is, it does start to make people wonder, in light of all the other changes, what lengths will be travelled to make the game more accessible and essentially remove a lot of what initially brought and retained many players.
It is very understandable why people would be upset at such prospects.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Never been Mentally challenged in an MMO? Look elsewhere for thought provoking or challenging gameplay? Evidently you have never attempted to play EVE online. It will cause your head to explode.
Note regarding quest tracker (from Turbine):
Quest Guide (BETA)
PLEASE NOTE: The Quest Guide feature is being released as BETA and will be turned off by default. If you would like to check it out, it can be enabled in your Options panel. We welcome bug reports and feedback on this new feature!
There are numerous quests that do not currently display objectives correctly with Quest Guide
I've already commented on this ad infinitum on the main site but it seems that it bears repeating here.
It's not about forcing someone to do something or making them play the way you want to or that other people go to outside sources for this information or that it's "optional" and that one can turn it off and that that fact is hard to understand.
The inclusion of such a feature will not ruin the game nor will affect people who don't want to use it.
However, the inclusion of this feature as well as the inclusion of such things as the rune keeper, of the changing of the old forest, as well as several other recent changes begs the question as to where the game is headed.
So sure, there are people who don't really care about the game sticking to the source material or that it even is lord of the rings as some have said that they never liked the books or story but find the game fun.
But there is a contingent of people who are playing this because of it being close to the source material, and that it was initially more about the stories and journey of the game and less about loot grinds, rep grinds and end game raiding. The game really was about exploring the landscape and a sense of immersion that this brings.
However, with the inclusion of the quest tracker, handy though it is, it does start to make people wonder, in light of all the other changes, what lengths will be travelled to make the game more accessible and essentially remove a lot of what initially brought and retained many players.
It is very understandable why people would be upset at such prospects.
I think if they forced people to use the quest helper or in some way changed the quest dialog so that they effectively force you to use the quest tracker, then that would qualify as dumbing down. I won't use it much, but I like the option in case I'm looking for something for an hour and can't find it.. Right now the only place I can think of where I used a 3rd party map was in the Old Forest looking for a couple of those stupid flowers to finish the trait. My first time through a MMO I like to explore every inch and do every quest I can find. My main is level 28 and I have played every class to 20 except Wardens (didn't like them for some reason) just to get a feel for what I like best, so I'm hardly the type to rush through a game.
I played for 2 months at launch and quit until very recently, so I'm not familiar with or can't remember Old Forest changes so I can't comment on those, but I see the Runekeeper as more of a lore break to attract new players than dumbing down. You'll die a lot playing that class if you don't know what you're doing is my reasoning on that not qualifying as dumbing down. So far it seems noob RKs can wipe a group faster than any other class I've seen in action because of those stones hehe.
I understand dislike of rep grinds, loot grinds, and end game raiding, but what else do you want to do once you hit 60? I remember a big complaint at release was there was nothing to do at endgame. Not everyone is an altoholic or wants to PvMP or sit around and RP at 60 (no offense). Of course no one wants the stereotypical WoW player to infest what is easily the best community I've seen in a MMO, but it's a business and they want to attract new players.
The way the write quests are not going to change, why would they?
Also, all of you should stop speculating, and log in. Try it before you dismiss it.
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