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It has no skills; it is based completely on what you can afford.
raykor
Member UncommonPosts: 326
in EVE Online
It has no skills; it is based completely on what you can afford.
The quote above is actually from another space sci-fi game in development—Infinity—that may take another decade to complete. But it made me think of EVE—a game I have never tried but have been tempted by for a long time. I simply cannot stomach the real-time, you-will-never-catch-up leveling system.
And so I wonder. In a game like EVE with such a robust and insanely competitive economy and such severe death penalties, why do they bother with a skill system?
I suspect they would attract a lot more people if they would abandon it entirely.
Comments
SP (skillpoints) is just a number heh
Okay, its slightly a little more. Someone with Evasive Manuevers V will outmanuver a noob
Someone with Large Hybrid Turret V will outdmg a noob
etc, etc
But there really is no "catch up". Not all ships are equal. Take the biggest ship ingame- Titan. From what I understand it can only fire once in awhile. Battleships can be taken down by frigates. so forth
Bigger != Better pound for pound
My old CEO he got ganked by a pure noob
Plus there really is no 1-vs-1 in this game. All times I have ever died it was to a gang. So, it's not really like that at all.
This really is not WoW/EQ where Gear makes the man. Here in eVE, the man with biggest balls, willing to risk the most, will win. It is risk/reward here- not always wear best items 24/7 and beat the crap out of all else
This game not like that. More skillpoints just make ya more diverse; not more powerful. Vets can merely fly more ships/. But they have millions and millipons of SP not in use
If you play the game you will know this is true
You have to try it before you condem it tbh, I played the 21 day free trail and was suprised how much fun it was, you can be new and still compete with vets provided you understand what skills you need and do not get tempted to spread your skill base away from what you need. This is a very clever game that's why it has lasted so long and grown over the years, I beta tested this game and can tell you it has come on leaps and bounds since day one some six years ago.
Death is no big issue nowdays compared to the early days when you lost everything if you got carried away with your ego, trust me I learnt the hard way once thinking I knew it all and then got jumped by two well equiped ships. In todays game you have ship insuance and are protected to some degree in 0.5 > 1.0 sectors but can still come unstuck in some areas so it's not entirely safe. But until you try this space spread sheet you will not understand why so many hold it dear to their hearts.
Try it you may be suprised, it has a very mature community and will also make the hair stand up on the back of your neck even when fighting PVE at times it is so intense.
Bandit.
Asbo
um because it works?
you can catch up to people skill wise( there are no levels) , but its common for people who dont know any better to think that.
Skills only open your options avail. The skill system opens the options you can do , you cant trade without leanring trade skills , you cant mine unless you learn mine skills then you hone them in and specialize ( its called a time sink mechanic , every game has it , all of them hell even 1st person shooters are adapting this now. some call it leveling , some call it training , some called it kills , etc..)
Its a hard game , the learning curve is insane , there is no mercy , no pity , no escape. you CAN die anywhere at anytime in space ( stations are safe , for now ..) the point isnt to cater to a simplistic game crowd , its to fill a niche and it does so , better than alot of games out there. Its not for everyone, and the creators know this and happy with it.
its not griefer heaven , its not all combat ( lots of players never ever ever even undock form jita 4-4 and cant fly anything bigger than a bantam) , but it does have its charm.
And besides the feeling you get from mastering a certain thing is amazing when you work for it and know that its not a promise ,only a chance to be successful :
for example in wow once you learn fireball - you can always cast fireball and do X damage .. everytime .
in eve you level up some trade skills and try some trick in the market and lose every ISK you own because the market shifted or some other player undercut you this time and stopped your planned market shift , or even worse some noob dropped something for a stupid low price and threw off the daily averages and messed up your price setting formulas. having the skills (levels) doesnt guarentee anything in eve ( hench the death of a braodsword (specialized high skill ship) to a fleet of nothing but noob free starter ships ...)
Thy it. its free. see what you think before you say it would atract more people donig this or that ...
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Btw I might be wrong about there is no 1-vs-1. I only fly in 0.0 where Alliance wars are rampant and the fuels of fire blaze high. I am sure ppl can find 1-on-1. I just think a lot of time when you see that lone fighter they just bait hehe (at least in 0.0).
for instance i once played bait and flew around solo in interceptor but my gang was on other side of gate waiting to jump in and rape
the only time i ever see 1 on 1 is if someone i can flipped actually shoots at me AND doesnt have 10 other people in local that are willing to come help.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
The SP system allows for specialization and diversification at the same time, depending how you choose to train.
If money translated directly into power it would dumb the game down quite a bit. Personally I have billions of ISK in my wallet but I choose to fly small ships - I'm specialized heavily into frig-class ships and I fly them extremely well. I can't think of any other MMO where a vet can use the exact same equipment as a two-week old noob and not be completely batshit crazy.
Also, it's really nice to be able to expand your skillset without having to actually use the skills you're training. In the beginning it's very important to master a role quickly, but after you've done so there's very little reason to fly in a different role that you're terrible at - it's much better (and a lot more fun) to just spend a month or two training it while you continue to perform your current function. It's kind of like saying in, say, WoW, "I'm tired of leveling as a Warrior and I want all my XP to go toward being a Priest" without having to actually make the change until you're ready.
As far as making such a sweeping change, I doubt it will ever happen. CCP isn't stupid and they know exactly what will happen if they alienate the niche they've spent the last six years building a strong reputation with - just look at SoE and what happened when they tried to 'mainstreamize' SWG with the NGE expansion. EvE is very much a love-it-or-hate game from the moment you first log in - the devs know this, they're OK with it. They make up for the fact that most noobs quit by having one of the highest vet retention rates in the MMO market.
And in the end it doesn't really matter all that much in teh big scheme of things anyway - once in you're a fleet bigger than 2 or 3 people your fleet make-up and tactics matter far more than the SPs of the individual pilots.
The skill system put me off at first, too, but I found that in about 6 to 8 weeks I was competitive and running a decent ship. How you fit your ship has way more impact on fights and/or productivity than skill points do, but of course, the more skill points you have the more options you have with ship fitting.
I don't play anymore for other reasons, but I wouldn't let the skill system stop you from trying it.
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I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave.
Skills give you something to work for and make the game have more depth and meaning. If you could use every item equally right off thebat the game would quickly feel shallow and there'd be no purpose to your character. It'd be like starting at level 80 in WoW, or r40 rr80 in warhammer.
sorry but as a 6 month player now....i can tell you skills mean more than items for the most part. If you both have the same loadout, but say one has small pulse lasers V and you have small pulse laser specialization V, your gonna whup him good.
say he has some small pulse tech I which are really high end, and you use some mediocre tech I or even low end tech I small pulse lasers with your small pulse laser specialization, you will still outdamage him, due to the skill giving you a 20% increase in damage using small pulse lasers. Not to mention other skills which help with firepower, like gunnery, targeting ,tracking, siege warfare, bonuses from "leader" roles, etc. For every system (armor, shields, lasers, missiles, drones, etc) there are a multitude of skills which help and reinforce that system
So yes, skills far outweigh the parts per tech level.
And why would they abandon skills? Skills are needed to operate machinary, targeting and such in real life. If i stuck you on a 747 airliner and told you here...fly and land the thing....you would have no clue how to. Sitting in a 8 hour class might help a little with the basics, while spending a week in the class would make you much more efficient. EVE is a space simulator...if you go in thinking it is a massive multiplayer online simulator rather than a mmorpg, the skills make PERFECT sense.
specilisation skills only apply to tech 2 gear.
also, just because you outskill someone doesnt mean you're going to win. what if you are in a megathron and your enemy decloaks 4 km away in a pilgrim?
What a NOOB Thread this is, how the hell can You say that? You can afford a Capital Ship but if your skills are not the good ones to fly that ship you will get killed very very fast and You will cry.
I really wished I had been the first to notice this topic, but now everything has already been said.
Anyways..
You should really play the game before flaming it. Just do the trial, find some people to help you out, and try it out.
Severe death penalties? I fail to see them. You update your clone, and you're safe. The only thing you lose is the ship and its fittings, which you should be able to afford before flying it around somewhere risky.
It's one of the most used phrases: Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
Besides, people earn billions of isk every day, and if they ditched the skills, they'd be able to make endless alts flying around in titans, carriers, dreads or some other cap. That'd destroy the gameplay, in my opinion.
You train skills based on what you want to do - the good thing is that you can change your career quickly, the bad thing is that it takes time to specialise.
Follow my tweet (:
specialization applies to any tech level within that group...taken from the skill description itself
"Specialist training in the operation of small pulse lasers. 2% bonus per skill level to the damage of small turrets requiring Small Pulse Laser Specialization."
This applies to all Small Pulse Lasers.
After playing for 2 years now, I can only say I disagree. Catching up will not happen, but it isn't needed either.
I guess you'd have to play it to understand.
No. It applies to all small pulse lasers that requires Small Pulse Laser Specialization.. And as far as I can see, that's only the tech 2 variants.
Dual Light Pulse Laser I requires Small Energy Turret I and Gunnery I
Dual Light Pulse Laser II requires Small Energy Turret V, Gunnery I and Small Pulse Laser Specialization I
Which of the above gains a bonus? (:
Follow my tweet (:
No. It applies to all small pulse lasers that requires Small Pulse Laser Specialization.. And as far as I can see, that's only the tech 2 variants.
Dual Light Pulse Laser I requires Small Energy Turret I and Gunnery I
Dual Light Pulse Laser II requires Small Energy Turret V, Gunnery I and Small Pulse Laser Specialization I
Which of the above gains a bonus? (:
Both, the Tech II requires specialization to USE the item, but the skill will still apply to both. Least i thought it did :P Regardless, my point is that skills play a huge factor, and if you have skills which reinforce your primary skills, your damage will be better than loot of a similar level (say gunner + seige warfare skills and tech 1 blasters > gunnery and tech 1 blasters, so yes , skills come into play greatly)
Heh, I've been following the Infinity: The Quest For Earth project for a few years now, from just before the launch of the first Infinity Combat Prototype, it's still a long way off but when it releases I'm pretty sure it'll be good competition for both EVE and Jumpgate's new version.
Will it 'kill' either one? No. Infinity has different gameplay and different aim from both, with EVE being more PVP-oriented and Jumpgate more PVE, Infinity will focus on exploration, building and balancing aspects.
EVE's skill system works as an incentive to retain people in the long term, and in keeping people away from just financing the best possible ships and stuff for alts. Don't know if it's actually working (other then the alt-limiting thing) but it's the way it's done in EVE.
Then the Pilg dies...
only the Tech 2 pulse laser requires pulse laser specialization, so that bonus will only apply if the t2 gun is fit.
Its one of the reason people fit t2 guns and use t1 or faction ammo...for the 2% damage bonus per skill level over fiting t1 Wothout the penalty of t2 ammo.
Then the Pilg dies...
i dont think a tracking disrupting neut boat orbiting under a mega's guns is really in any kind of danger tbh.
It seems like so but reality is different.
I have almost perfect skills, just some drone skills at 4, the rest at 5 and I can say Pilg is just very expensive fun boat if you want to fly solo.
Neut+ECM/Heavy drones ruins your day very fast. And that's a very common PvP fitting.
Pilg is fine support for gangs though - TD + RR (+ Probe), anything you fancy.
neut i can understand, but all my pvp fits are injected so i generally outlast that, large drones... not really a problem for such a small cruiser and ive not seen a mega with ecm for a while, plus recon sensor strength...
for ratter ganking i can think of no finer ship. except maybe a curse.
You can't tank the DPS of 5x heavy drones if you do not overload your dual reppers and you won't outlast him because you:
1) burn your reppers first
2) even boosters won't let you run 2 neuts + overloaded dual rep
3) 1 neut ruins your dual rep tank
4) combo of 5x heavy drones + neut is lethal to any cruiser sized ship
Recon sensor strength - joking, right?
ECM drones > dmg drones.
so we're fighting a mega with a large neut, 5 ogre 2s and 5 ec600s
im not going to tell you that what you are saying is wrong, you've obviously flown the ship extensivly, but why not try a single rep and plated setup, cap inject and keep your drones on his drones. 5 bonused med drones should tear through heavies, and he will cap out far before you do.
also i tend to encounter ratting ships set up with 7 railguns and a single salvager/tractor/cloak, very rarely a neut.
for the record a pilgrim has a sensor strength of 24. the same as a rokh. ecm drones would be very unlikely to get a single jam off before they were popped.
but still, i see what you're saying, a bit of pilot skill and a good setup will allow you to win against a bigger, or better ship. eve is a thinking mans game and most of the fight is won when you press undock.
If you try to kill his drones in extreme close range fight like this, he will just do the drone play - scoop/launch. That might prolong the fight but not much change the result of it.
Picking on ratters or mission runners
Sensor strength is joke. 5x medium ECM drones keeps you almost perma-jammed.
Killing unwebbed drones with other drones is difficult task because QR fucked up tracking and speeds. And as already said, drone play at close ranges >.>
Do you want to see something funny? Try to kill a light drone with your medium drones...
This is very very wrong assumption. Your skills as a player makes trendemous difference even though it might be not clear to see at first look.