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MMORPGs not catering to casual gamers?
animeba
Member Posts: 5
Besides World of Warcraft, which uses the "rest" system to reward the casual players slightly, has any other mmorpg even made the attempt to attract casual gamers?
My point is this: A power gamer can power level and reach max level in 1-2months. Total cost: $50+2x$15 = approx $80.
A casual gamer usualy takes around a year to reach max level. Total cost: $50+12x$15 = $230.
Both spends the same amount of time to reach max level, but the casual gamer has to pay $150 dollars more to experience the same in game content! How fair is that!
Just wanted to know other people's thoughts on this.
Comments
Hmmm... I hadn't considered it that way: having to pay more money to access the same game content.
This works out nicely in favour of the game developers - why should they alter it to appeal to casual gamers? Keeping people playing for months is their bread and butter.
The carrot on the end of the grinding stick is finally being able to access the whole game you paid for when you bought the box.
Hey waitaminnit... we're being had!!!
if you think about it thats a hard thing to fix. If you lower the grind the power gamers will still get there faster than the casual gamer. I think the rest system was a pretty invative way of dealing with this.
I was in the first stress test for wow. the only probel IMO was that your rested status didnt last nearly long enogh. dont know if they have changed that since then since iwent to eq2
It might seem like the hardcore gamer is winning out economically, but the casual gamer is doing other things while the loser spends his valuable (or not so valuable) time doing NOTHING but gaming.
For every hour wasted on the game, the hardcore gamer loses >= 5 $ an hour playing games, while the monthly cost is equivalent to three hours of work. There are exceptions (ex. like Russia or China) where the opportunity cost of gaming is very low, because of the fat, rich Americans that purchase online gear.
Yes, you will be experiencing more content for a smaller price, but you are concomitantly losing money, opportunities to get laid and the other joys of life while you are experiencing it.
And once it has been experienced by the hardcore gamer, there will be an alternative that costs around 80$ so that the $/time spent is >= to that of the casual gamer.
If it were not for the hardcore gamer then competition would be severely limited, since content would last much longer so that the demand curve would be shifted down (if you assume that casual gamers play as long as the content lasts). Hardcore gamers are beneficial for the gaming industry, since they induce change and insure high quality content (until devs gain the ability to pull a new game out of their ass in less than a year).
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Why are you guy sstuck with the levelling games? Just play eve online, your character trains skills while youre OFFLINE (or online too). You start trianing a skill and it trains no matter wha tyou do, at the same speed as everyone else.
I hate those level games, they're so linear.
I think they all make "an attempt" to bring in casual gamers. The real difference is the priority that it takes over other aspects. EQ2 made an attempt by making many quests soloable (even if that means doing green quests most of the time) and having mobs in that are designed for solo players. However, I think their priorities are with the group game. Probably the real reason to bring in casual gamers is to make hard-core gamers out of them...
People seem to always forget the motivation for companies NOT to make a "casual" MMORPG. By casual most people think of the following:
The thing with MMORPGs though is they want your monthly fee. Casual ideas go against the idea of making the best money possible:
Gaming sessions of no more than an hour or so - If you are not justifying the time you spend in the game, then you may not feel you are getting your money's worth and cancel your account. Players who spend only four hours a week playing an MMORPG may not continue their subscriptions past a couple months as other things eat up more of their time. It is in the MMORPG company's interest to have you sucking up most of your free time playing, just like it is in the interest of a casino for you to stay as long as possible (labyrinth-like with no clocks). Many differences, admittedly, but you see what I am saying. Bottom line is if you are spending lots of time doing something, it will be harder for you to completely give it up later. Sure you may take breaks, but cancelling your account altogether is much harder when you have more vested in the game.
Not having to group all the time - This means you will make fewer friends in-game, but it's friends that keep players around when the content gets stale. This is why the EQ franchise is built on the aspect of "forced-grouping". How many people do you meet if you just solo--especially if you just solo for an hour at a time? They know that grouping keeps people playing and paying.
Getting good reward for little effort - This is easy. If you advance too quickly, then content just gets stale more quickly. Little rewards given often, but each one not too much better than the last, is what makes money. Pavlovian theory at its finest!
That is why many of your AAA MMORPGs are not going to be casual friendly. They have servers to pay for and staff to keep onhand.
So the simple solution to the thread starter's issue would be to pay per hour of gameplay, that way the casual gamer pays the same ammount as the hardcore gamer.
Your not making sence.
You pay for access to the severs. You are not paying for play time, or levels. (you can buy levels on ebay)
I pay 80 bucks a month for cable. I only watch 2-3 hours a week of TV. The average is 24 hours a week. How fair is that?
What if you small and can get full and half a cheese burger? Is that fair, since most people can eat a whole cheese burger?
Just how everyone defines what a casual player is, so does everyone define what is fair. To some they might not consider it fair they have to play on a sever where people play less than them. After all it's not fair someone has to go just when things are getting good.
You can level as quick or as slow as you wish, it's up to you, not the game makers. It's there job to keep the severs on-line, the game in working condition so you are able to play.
If you don't like what your paying for, stop paying for it.
Just for the record, the average Achiever (so called powergamers) play 17-20 hours a week, Soicalizers play 20-27.5 hours on average 7.5 hours more averagely. Your talkers are the ones racking up the game time.
If you play smart, you do not need to play allot.
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/000758.php
o see this thread that dispells myths about power gamers
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm?load=forums&loadClass=35&loadForum=51&loadThread=12156
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I agree they miss a huge percenage of possible users/customers ( some folk have to work
) you have to wonder what most Devs/companys are thinking when they design these games when they force a certain playstyle or reward the minority who log on the longest.
As Deides mentioned EVE-Online has an offline skill training system which does address the skill/exp vs timesink issue, In fact I cant imagine playing a mmorpg without such a system now its probably one of the reasons I still play after so long.
Largely I agree with clever_glove and I am no so called "power-gamer" I have to many other hobbies in life to do that. However I don't damn a player who plays faster and with more endurance then me either. In fact most "power-gamers" I know (and I know 'a few':)) actually help me along in the game more than hinder me.
If you really want games that have a casual play style, pick older games. Most fast players have already reached end game and left, so there is lots of room for us slackers to drift around the zones MEMORIZING EVERYTHING.
Though I feel a trend comming on of games geared more toward the casual player. Early examples might be CoH and WoW. This could be so called "3rd Gen MMORPG", the Generation of More Faster Now. Whereby even casual gamers get all the content and at a reasonable speed. Might be to easy for the real hard liner challenge gamer but hell... there are many games out there that have not "finished" creating their end-game yet, for them.
So yeah.. umm don't fret it. Your paying for the server not the content. The content you willpay about 70bucks for and it will come in a box. That we all pay the same price for (well except you game reviewers out there).
Play as you like... just dont break my toys.
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It's only natural to reward those who put more work into something.
It's also only natural for people to whine about that which you don't have.
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In wow prolly you will be as powergamer in 3weeks lvl60:P
The xp for resting is not realy a bonus,it help little when you not play for few days,but in meanwhile powergamer gets normal xp and go fast to lvl cap in wow that you wil prolly think how the hell he can be that fats such high lvl while they say i get rest xp bonus 200% and they got normal xp hehe.
Point is you will not see any differents casual will still be fast behind powergamers 2 a 3 weeks lvl60 casual 4 a 5 months lvl60
I use to think the same thing, but now.. I can do 12-16+ hours on a good (bad) day.
Well, all I can say about this is that all MMORPGs can be played by casual players. Just avoid the fact that power gamers will be 4 times the level you are in a few months and forget about them. There will always be newer players to group with, or even ex-power gamers who got bored with one char, so they create a new one and will be at the same level as you.
Heck even in Dark Ages of Camelot which I played last month, 90% of the people I met were already at high levels, but the other 10% of people were new players still trying out the game AND long-time players that had a new lower lever char that helped me out.
So if you don't want to get bored of any MMORPG, forget about competition, forget about being the best and uber, forget about all those that are uber, forget about the fact you can't play with your uber power gamer friends that are 4 times the level you are... just play the game for what it is.
I'm always comparing with Star Wars Galaxies, but simply cause it's the best example. It's so easy to power grind in SWG that anyone can do everything and explore everything within 2-3 months. Which is sad. So you gotta not do that and play the game for what it is.
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OMG ! You made a chart....thats awesome , but I think that is putting way too much thought into it
But hey who am i to talk ? I am reading message boards to curb my game withdrawl intill release .
You are missing a HUGE point!
The casual gamer has far more fun. The powergamer does not. The powergamer burns theirselves out quickly.
The issue is not about money. Since ALL computer games are a "waste of money" since computer games are a leisure activity - not a necessity. The point is about how much fun is one getting from this leisure activity? Casual gamers have longer lasting fun than powergamers.
Last, many gamers are both casual and powergamers.
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I have to agree that all games are a waste of cash. I mean are you actually accomplishing anything? Gaming is just something to do at home when you have nothing else to do. And those who play games to the exclusion to everything else do burn out on a game a great deal faster.
But to answer one of your questions, Eve Online is geared to casual players with their real time skill learning. You dont even have to be online to develop your skills. The only difference between casual players and hardcore players is a how much cash you have. After all they are there working at it more than a casual player.
Kinda of like the ranking on this site. You generally have a higher rank here if you troll the boards more often than a casual on-looker. lol.
I know NCSoft has introduced "Casual" type servers for lineage in Korea, which limits the amount of time players can play on that server. At least that means casual players can play alongside other casual players and dont have to feel there miles behind the player standing next to them in terms of level and equipment in most cases.
Many games could implement this technology and make it an option for people, clearly the technology exists. This would be one step in the right direction.
From a design perspective its extremely difficult to create a casual game that doesnt end up favouring hardcore players. People say WoW is casual. Lets see how long it takes before casual players start complaining that they are getting left behind by the l33t hardcore. My bet is a couple of months max. Any game can be played casually, any game can be driven hard - its the gamers decision.
Gratz goes out to any developer that can overcome that problem though, at the very least it would be nice to see more devs try to tackle the casual gamer.
Question though. Do you think gamers you might classify as "casual" would play an MMO and not stick to there xbox and ps2 like most do? Personally i think thats debatable. Im not so sure there are hundreds of thousands of untapped casual MMO players out there.
I think if anyone practices any given thing more than other folks, they should be better and more advanced. Whether it's playing a game for 3 hours a day everyday, or practicing the drums, or jogging around the track, or eating hot dogs and blueberry pie.
I don't expect to be as good or as high level as someone who puts in twice the time I do. I bought the game and agreed to pay the monthly fee knowing how much time I can play that game ahead of time. I don't complain when I get beat on the basketball court, why should I complain when I see better players online?
And someone else mentioned they don't think there is a vast wealth of untapped MMORPG players out there. I agree. Most gamers are hip to the game already. I do think they can and will do much more multiplaying with consoles, but not MMORPGS or even MMOGs. More like ladders and such on sports games, RTS, and FPS.
They should just create a morg that can be soloed better. im so tired of the forced group bs. there is your untapped market, the solo players. we get bored from not being able to progress and dying alot because of the group based content, so we cancel our accounts. If they can make a game for us and groups then there would be a winner.
just my 2 cents.
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I agree with a lot of what's being said. I have at most 2 hrs or so per weeknight and a fair amount of time on weekends but after 4 years of fighting to solo my way through EQ, I finally gave up. The forced grouping / guild belonging is a very negative point for me. Although, I like to group with friends, grouping with the leetspeakers and powergamers who are always pushing for loots etc, drives me nuts. That's the main reason I did pre-order WoW. I was able to successfully level a hunter, warrior, mage, paladin and shaman to level 10 in the 2 weeks of open beta. I never grouped once and completed most of the quests available to them. Thus, I'd say wow is much better for casual gamers and powergamers will get bored with it. Just my 2cp.
Tacklebury --}>>>
Man you guys have strange idea about powergamers first offall not all powergamers talk trash or speak l337,second not all powergamers are fast bored and surtenly not in pvp,im powergamer and played same mmorpgs for 1year or longer at least.
Powergamers like me help manytimes also other players like casual and i pay to if i wanne powergame why complain im very fast at high end of game whats problem with that?
When i would talk l337 or come down to newbee areas to grief yes then im annoying powergamer that casual dislike but im not that guy.
And dream on about wow powergamers like me wil be in 3 weeks lvl60 np maybe sooner depends on if blizzard will slow down xping?
And then pvp will come or wait untill more at that lvl i go farm instance to get better and better gear.
I think most casual gamers would love to be in 3 weeks max lvl but they cant becouse they cant or will play that much.
And start whining about powergamers. hypocrits i say only powergamers that brag grief and talk l337 are losers but not all powergamers are like that.
And many casual try cheating becouse they wanne be that max lvl that would take months for them getting there or that same casual gamer that buy his account max lvl character and start showing off with character he bought lol (ebay idiots mostly casual gamers who do that and thats even more loser ):P
Well Forestdutch, perhaps some of what you say is true dependant of what your definition of a powergamer is... In my book powergamers are those who have inordinate amounts of time and constantly push for camps and feel the need to overpower casual gamers who could never keep up. So in per my definition, you fall outside this category. And I shouldn't say leetspeakers really, because only a few of the worst powergamers I've ran into did this at all. lol They were pretty idiotic though.
Finally, I didn't make it to max level in 3 weeks and no I wouldn't like a game that was that easy. I simply played several classes to 10th level to get a feel for the game and I don't think that came across clearly in my previous post. Anyway, I have a lot of casual gamer friends and none of them have ever ebay'd Uber Characters, it's always those who have tons of time to play that can get a character quickly high enough to be sellable that usually fall into that category. It took me 4 years to get my ranger to 62nd level in EQ to put it in perspective. Not too uber nor sellable...
Tacklebury --}>>>