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So, what is wrong with player housing, harvesting raw materials and player made economies? I never played SWG but I won't touch this game if it only turns out to be an 'mmo' rather than an 'mmoRPG'.
In my opinion there is nothing wrong with player housing.. EXCEPT when groups of people start putting medium size houses side by side to make it into a fort (using the houses as walls) Most of the decor wasn't finished.. Infact I remember all the interior decorating contest (which many were very creative) becuase what was given to us was crap by itself.. Plus there were problems bugs at times, but that improved in time..
I have no problem with harvesting and collecting raw materials.. SWG had good intentions, but it was designed incorrectly.. WoW's and LoTRO crafting it very good, and could be tweaked a bit more .. but I would stay away from anything that looks like a SOE crafting thing.. SWG failed, EQ2 failed, and EQ1 was mediocre and Vanguard SUCKS totally.. The crafting process must be fun and simple.. but plenty of it. (meaning recipes)..
As for the player made economies.. SOE is known for EPIC failure at ALL their games. Every single one of them.. I wont' get into the HUGE list why most player made economies fail, because that would take 3 pages and a day to go thru.. Lets make this simple.. YOU wouldn't expect a person with a business degree to design a computer game.. SO what makes you think a person with a computer degree can design an economy? Get my point.. One of the biggest problems in most MMO's.. SOE's games come to mind.. is that the Dev's have an ego that can't be satisfied.. Their ego's are so huge that they honestly believe they can design and do everything, and require no outside help in anything..
In conclusion.. Why was SOE mention so much in this response.. because I'm reminded that a portion of the SOE staff that helped create one of the industries BIGGEST mistakes (SWG) is now employed with Bioware sticking their hands in TOR.. I think this would be reason of concern.. If that is true, I hope they learned from their mistakes..
I'm sorry but where do you get all this? Crafting and Economy failed in SWG? I wonder what game i was playing before CU and NGE hit. hmmm.. Let me think.
I played SWG for more than 1 year before the changes. First time there, i ran up to a Bazaar and got myself some new clothes. I was in Naboo and believe me, the player run economy was anything BUT failing. For that year i bought and sold items as i pleased, everything i wanted i found on a bazaar and if i wanted something more specific of much higher quality i went and searched for a vendor. Pure and simple. You could even place custom orders and crafters would do it, as long as you had the money.
I myself made a crafter alt. I played every game SOE has, i played WOW, i played a whole lot of other games with crafting in them and i STILL wish someone would just copy SWGs crafting. If you don't like it, that's fine. Go and play a game where crafting doesn't involve thinking, just pre made recipes and all you do is click away. In SWG what materials you used matter. Different materials would make the end item different. The challenge (and the fun) was finding the right materials for the right job. And considering that resource zones were reset every so often, you had to always be on the hunt for new materials.
In other games, you find a node, mine it, smelt it, craft it. Pure, simple, and totally brain dead (not saying all of them, just the ones i played.). It was SWGs crafting that fueled the player run economy until the massive fuck-star decided to hit the game.
Right now I'm playing a WOW clone, with crafting for the brain dead. And guess what? How can there be player run economy when everyone has crafting skills so easely available to them? I'm making my own Armour and weapons as i go, i don't need to buy anything.
Did I read someone say "crafting for the brain dead"?
Hmmm let me think here..
1) walk out to open land and put down a harvester
2) come back 4 days later and collect resources.
3) go back to home or public machine and hit "crafting macro 1"
4) come back 12 hours later and proclaim youself "Master (insert title)"
Any you didn't call this brain dead? HELL.. you didn't even need to be at the computer to level.. combat or crafting.. or dancing.. lmaoooooo Macro'ing was one major KILLER to SWG.. Why was there so much macro'ing? Because so many people were leaving the game that others ended up getting a 2nd, 3rd and even 4th account to place macro bots in cantinas.. I believe SWG peaked at about 200,000 accounts (verified by mmocharts.com) Of those 200,000 accounts I bet there was only truely 100,000 people.. Even I had 2 accounts since we were limited to 1 character per server..
Having variable quality resources was a great idea.. but that wasn't enough to save the sinking ship.. sorry..
Marco'ing was an aspect of the game sunshine, not the crafting alone.
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
Currently playing: Law Degree, American Football.
I don't like MMORPG Housing...i didn't like it in SWG(Pre-CU or otherwise). So i agree mostly here; however, if it must be done i would not at all object to a FFXI solution or something similar. Player houses only became a problem for me when i had to see them everywhere some randome guy decided to plot down 10 buildings on top of my mission objectives(and also resouces in SWG's case).
I felt the Crafting in SWG(Mostly Pre-CU player) was quite good. I havn't experienced vanguard. WoW's crafting is a rather borring nessecity now. If 100 players make...lets say 100 blaster guns each ...is there an fathomable reason why every one of those 10,000 blaster guns should be EXACTLY the same? Other then simplifying game design and database usage, i can't think of one. In SWG if there was somone so inclined to do so, you could find a person who could and would make far and away the BEST gun for you....and his blaster guns would be worth much more then the guns made the other 99 people. This was a very good thing for both player customization(on anumber of levels) and also economic diversity and growth.
Group Crafting...being ignorant of vanguard crafting mechanics, i'll just make an assumption that you mean 5 guys have to come together all at the same time(make a crafting group) to make 1 thing(a blaster for example). That sounds Bad. I don't want that, i can't understand how anyone really would. *If on the other hand, you mean that it takes the materials gathered by "a group" of people of varying skill choices or playstyles to make a blaster, then that sounds interesting(read: not bad). As long as there is some form of a readily available method for exchanging goods that can be viewed from "anywhere"...this sounds far from bad...i might even say it sounds ideal. Just to toss a few buzz names out there...SWG pretty much had this, EVE has this, WoW almost has this. Just off the ones from the top of my head, 2 of them are still in the succesful mmo category...1 isn't. The logical conclusion is that the Economy of the third(faild game) in this case is a not a reason for its loss of player base.
***
Being a fairly hardcore player of the Pre-CU, i'll go ahead and drop my reasons for leaving SWG here....they probably arn't terribly different from most people who played back then. Starting with Pre-CU:
And then Durring and after the CU patches:
Just to point out clearly, the Economy and crafting were not at all reasons why i left the game. If anything, i would say that they were in many ways the "stronger" things that SWG had going for it at the time that i played.
***
That aside, i do not mean to further derail a SW:TOR thread with pre-cu SWG reminicence...i'm quite sure Bioware(and EA?! Really?
) have a very specific plan for their star wars mmo. If dynamic crafting, houses and economies are not part of it then i seriously doubt that there is anything we can suggest that will make them change thier development goals. If they did change thier plans on such a large scale(or even a half arsed one) just because forum goers want player houses then i'm afraid that the game wouldn't be worth playing anymore.
That Said, very much in favor of entertainers(dancers and musicians) being in TOR. That was an extreemly inovative and original game mechanic that could be a very relaxing thing to do if so desired. Obvioulsy this diddn't and doesn't appeal to everyone....but well...i don't expect anyone is going to force your twillek to dance in a thong for a few credits , so whats the harm in letting the people who want to :P
It's quite sad to see that ppl can not allow a new game to develop in it's own unique way.
Why do ppl have to try to measure a game against an older one and tell everyone else thats what it needs to be a success? and that if they fail to put those features in they will fail to craw in customers, I say thats a load of old crap.
Judge the game on what it delivers, not by comparing it to a different game, give the devs your ideas by all means but don't expect them to like being force fed things that they feel won't work for thier game.
I like the whole direction Bioware are going with this Starwars MMO, yes I played SWG from the start and really enjoyed my time in the game, however I would rather try a new approach to an old IP than a rehash of SWG.
Thats because they are all sanbox fans and perhaps not really Star Wars fans. Even the Star Wars movies had a story and a linear path, perhaps they didn't like the movies either.
I just hope BioWare puts in classic Pre-CU servers....oh wait...*sniffle*
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
LoL, you guys should redirect all those pre-cu players to Earthrise, only Sci-Fi sandbox MMO worth mentioning coming out soon...well sooner then Swtor....=P
Don't make me laugh, WoW doesn't have 11 million subscribers because of the crafting system, nor would that number fluctuate if they changed it.. You probably hated the crafting system in Vanguard because you found it too hard. I can't quite tell what you are trying to say with your point on player housing, if you are making a reference to SWG, then you need to look harder. People left the game for a number of reasons, and the NGE was a high risk strategy that failed; point to note: it did not eliminate player housing.
"Craftering": You want it to be soloable? Great, I'm not disputing that, but you would agree with me that with such an easy crafting system that produces shit items, there isn't much point, yes?
Player economy in WoW? There isn't one. Don't try and tell me the AH in WoW is the driving force behind the economy, because if that was the case, people wouldn't farm instances for items. The only useful crafting professions in WoW are alchemy, tailoring (for bags) and enchanting/incsribing. Besides, where you got 25,000 from, I don't know. SWG isn't a commercial success like WoW, but that doesn't mean to say player economies are the be all and end all of a successful game...
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
Currently playing: Law Degree, American Football.
So, what is wrong with player housing, harvesting raw materials and player made economies? I never played SWG but I won't touch this game if it only turns out to be an 'mmo' rather than an 'mmoRPG'.
So harvesting, housing and player made economy turns a MMO into a MMORPG? Didnt know that definition of RPG yet. Those are 3 things that are not needed for a RPG.
Don't make me laugh, WoW doesn't have 11 million subscribers because of the crafting system, nor would that number fluctuate if they changed it.. You probably hated the crafting system in Vanguard because you found it too hard. I can't quite tell what you are trying to say with your point on player housing, if you are making a reference to SWG, then you need to look harder. People left the game for a number of reasons, and the NGE was a high risk strategy that failed; point to note: it did not eliminate player housing.
"Craftering": You want it to be soloable? Great, I'm not disputing that, but you would agree with me that with such an easy crafting system that produces shit items, there isn't much point, yes?
Player economy in WoW? There isn't one. Don't try and tell me the AH in WoW is the driving force behind the economy, because if that was the case, people wouldn't farm instances for items. The only useful crafting professions in WoW are alchemy, tailoring (for bags) and enchanting/incsribing. Besides, where you got 25,000 from, I don't know. SWG isn't a commercial success like WoW, but that doesn't mean to say player economies are the be all and end all of a successful game...
If I got a nickle for everytime I heard 11mil and WoW together in the same sentence...lol
Don't make me laugh, WoW doesn't have 11 million subscribers because of the crafting system, nor would that number fluctuate if they changed it.. You probably hated the crafting system in Vanguard because you found it too hard. WAIT I can't quite tell what you are trying to say with your point on player housing, am I the only one that remembers the mess up of players in SWG turning player cities into forts using medium size houses as walls, placing covert scanners at space ports to make someone TEF so that the city militia can gank them? This became such a problem it was removed from the game BEFORE NGE if you are making a reference to SWG, then you need to look harder. People left the game for a number of reasons,ty for admitting there was multiple screw ups by SOE devs and the NGE was a high risk strategy that failed; point to note: it did not eliminate player housing.
"Craftering": You want it to be soloable? Great, I'm not disputing that, BUT you just did in the previous paragraph, that was WHY Vanguard had terrible crafting you were NOT only required to wear "crafting clothes" to craft, but you were required to be in a group to make anything worth a darn but you would agree with me that with such an easy crafting system that produces shit items, Yeah, making recipes drops for the sunwell plateau was terrible.. LOL.. and who would ever want to wear titansteel armor or titanium jewelery there isn't much point, yes?
Player economy in WoW? There isn't one. Don't try and tell me the AH in WoW is the driving force behind the economy,I can only assume you've never played WoW of late? because if that was the case, people wouldn't farm instances for items. No one does that much anymore.. People farm instances for RAW resources like cloth, gems, ore.. Anythign from instances that is of any quality is BOP. LOL The only useful crafting professions in WoW are alchemy, tailoring (for bags) and enchanting/incsribing.Don't forget Blasksmithing for the titalsteel items, and jewelcrafting for the gems and jewelery.. I'm sensing you haven't played WoW at all .. Besides, where you got 25,000 from, I don't know. SWG isn't a commercial success like WoW, but that doesn't mean to say player economies are the be all and end all of a successful game...
Whats the issue? SWTOR would be infinitely better if Bioware took some of the better aspect and features of SWG and applied them to their game. Player housing and player cities add a huge immersion factor and give people a LOT more things to do.
The profession trees are incredibly better than any halfwitted, thoughtless class/talent system that every MMO mindlessly throws into their game.
The crafting is SWG was second to none(LOL if you think WoW's crafting is good. That truely is funny. WoW has the most simplistic, boring, pointless crafting I have ever seen).
I don't know how you expect anyone to craft if they aren't harvesting raw materials, so I don't quite understand your qualm here.
Player made economies make games much more than a grind for the next shiny. This means crafted goods are worth crafting, players are dependent on one another, and gear usually becomes a little less important than the actual skill of the player.
Whats wrong with an entertainer class? If people enjoy it, than why should your needs be met before theirs?
Pre-CU is dead for a bad reason, and that is poor management by SOE. Nothing more, nothing less. Before SOE ruined SWG is had one of the highest stable populations of any pay to play game. Yes, more than WAR, more than AoC, more than LotRO.
The real issue here isn't that you don't necessarily want those specific features in this game, but that you don't want a thought invoking, deep game that SWG used to be. Just come out and say it. You want a brain dead WoW clone with a Star Wars skin, and you could save yourself a lot of typing.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Don't make me laugh, WoW doesn't have 11 million subscribers because of the crafting system, nor would that number fluctuate if they changed it.. You probably hated the crafting system in Vanguard because you found it too hard. WAIT I can't quite tell what you are trying to say with your point on player housing, am I the only one that remembers the mess up of players in SWG turning player cities into forts using medium size houses as walls, placing covert scanners at space ports to make someone TEF so that the city militia can gank them? This became such a problem it was removed from the game BEFORE NGE if you are making a reference to SWG, then you need to look harder. People left the game for a number of reasons,ty for admitting there was multiple screw ups by SOE devs and the NGE was a high risk strategy that failed; point to note: it did not eliminate player housing.
"Craftering": You want it to be soloable? Great, I'm not disputing that, BUT you just did in the previous paragraph, that was WHY Vanguard had terrible crafting you were NOT only required to wear "crafting clothes" to craft, but you were required to be in a group to make anything worth a darn but you would agree with me that with such an easy crafting system that produces shit items, Yeah, making recipes drops for the sunwell plateau was terrible.. LOL.. and who would ever want to wear titansteel armor or titanium jewelery there isn't much point, yes?
Player economy in WoW? There isn't one. Don't try and tell me the AH in WoW is the driving force behind the economy,I can only assume you've never played WoW of late? because if that was the case, people wouldn't farm instances for items. No one does that much anymore.. People farm instances for RAW resources like cloth, gems, ore.. Anythign from instances that is of any quality is BOP. LOL The only useful crafting professions in WoW are alchemy, tailoring (for bags) and enchanting/incsribing.Don't forget Blasksmithing for the titalsteel items, and jewelcrafting for the gems and jewelery.. I'm sensing you haven't played WoW at all .. Besides, where you got 25,000 from, I don't know. SWG isn't a commercial success like WoW, but that doesn't mean to say player economies are the be all and end all of a successful game...
Well thats funny, when I played Vanguard as a ranger, my mate who played blacksmith could craft a lot of stuff for me without requiring me to do much at all. Seeing as you only played beta, your statements aren't well founded.
How you can sit there and argue WoW has an efficient crafting system is beyond a joke. Titansteel armour? Titanium Jewelry? You speak of these fantastic items, but lets break it down; you need Crafting level (blacksmithing) 440/450 to craft Titansteel gear. Can you honestly tell me, does all that shit you can craft prior to at least lvl 300 get used at all (in vast quantities, i.e. majority of people who are able to craft it)?
And no, grinding instances to harvest raw materials which you simply bring to a max skilled BS doesn't count as a player stimulated economy, its just an elongated version of the process used before, whose only effect is to add another time sink to progression whilst Blizzard thinks of the next batch of features to keep subscription levels constant.
Honestly. Your debating skills are questionable to say the least; you barely analyse anything from both sides, and when you do, it isn't in depth enough, you focus on very niche exceptions, and in this case you've drifted completely off topic. We were discussing the pros and cons of SWG's crafting system, how VG got drawn into this for its loose affiliation to SWG through SOE is a bit stupid if you ask me, and if it was me who mentioned it, I apologise, but if you think WoW is your idyllic game because the crafting is, in your opinion, spectacular, then why are you bothering us here and why don't you go and join your 10,999,999 other chums in utopia?
---------------------
On player housing, use it, but to the bereft of compromise (i.e. you) it can be regulated so it doesn't turn out like SWG.
On Crafting, it should be a separate profession altogether, with a few exceptions, (i.e. Jedis being able to craft their own lightsabres for example)
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
Currently playing: Law Degree, American Football.
Nope.. I want a SWTOR game.. not a remake of the failed SWG.. but obviously some still can't remember or let go of the past..
Nope.. I want a SWTOR game.. not a remake of the failed SWG.. but obviously some still can't remember or let go of the past..
I'll let go of the past when an MMO is released that is half as good as SWG used to be, instead of these regurgitated piles of crap so many people seem to scarf down with pleasure. I'm not saying SWG wasn't without it's flaws, it had too many to count. But the basic ideas and mechanics behind it are still unmatched to this day, no matter how bad SOE botched the rest of it. Taking the best of what that game offered would be an evolution in the genre, and if the current trend shows us anything, evolving is something this genre isn't doing.
It just amazes me that people are too dense to look passed a buggy implementation to see the quality of the basic idea.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
LoL, you ppl need to stop bring up WoW all the time, the game is iconic. That's what made it so successful and that's why every game that's tried to copy it has failed. Trying to figure out why WoW is so big is like trying to figure out why Nintendo turned a fat blue collar Italian man that fights midget dinosaurs in a land of mushrooms and sewage pipes into the mascot of their entire company...0o
Nope.. I want a SWTOR game.. not a remake of the failed SWG.. but obviously some still can't remember or let go of the past..
I'll let go of the past when an MMO is released that is half as good as SWG used to be. I'm not saying SWG wasn't without it's flaws, it had too many to count. But the basic ideas and mechanics behind it are still unmatched to this day, no matter how bad SOE botched the rest of it. Taking the best of what that game offered would be an evolution in the genre, and if the current trend shows us anything, evolving is something this genre isn't doing.
Well you can forget SWGstyle playercities and houses. That needs a world engine that is designed to support it. Housing like in SWG cant be put in as an afterthought.
And without the typical SWG features it doesnt automatically turn into a braindead WoW clone. Maybe for the first time we will get a MMO with great character development, lore and questarcs. If you arent interested in lore or questarcs, but want preCU style SWG back, then you should ask for other developers.
You really have to be blind or completely uninformed to still think that there is a chance that BIoware will make a SWGstyle mmo.
Nope.. I want a SWTOR game.. not a remake of the failed SWG.. but obviously some still can't remember or let go of the past..
I'll let go of the past when an MMO is released that is half as good as SWG used to be. I'm not saying SWG wasn't without it's flaws, it had too many to count. But the basic ideas and mechanics behind it are still unmatched to this day, no matter how bad SOE botched the rest of it. Taking the best of what that game offered would be an evolution in the genre, and if the current trend shows us anything, evolving is something this genre isn't doing.
Well you can forget SWGstyle playercities and houses. That needs a world engine that is designed to support it. Housing like in SWG cant be put in as an afterthought.
I agree, but seeing as Bioware is using the Hero Engine, it is entirely dependent on whether the Hero Engine supports player housing or not, which I'm not sure about. In either case, it can be an afterthought for Bioware as it isn't up to them but up to the Hero Engine and it's capabilities.
And without the typical SWG features it doesnt automatically turn into a braindead WoW clone. Maybe for the first time we will get a MMO with great character development, lore and questarcs. If you arent interested in lore or questarcs, but want preCU style SWG back, then you should ask for other developers.
You are right, and I hope it does have great character development, lore, and questarcs. But there is no reason we can't have both. None of these people are asking for those things to be removed, they are simply asking for features which I, and obviously they, both really liked.
You really have to be blind or completely uninformed to still think that there is a chance that BIoware will make a SWGstyle mmo.
I don't expect a Pre-CU style game from Bioware. But including some of the better features from SWG pre-CU doesn't make TOR a Pre-CU style game, it just makes it a better game.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Nah, I'd just like TOR to be more than:
1) Get Mission
2) read alot of text than what is normally used for quest and that is "better" (subjective) written
3) Pew Pew
4) Turn in quest, repeat.
Now, I don't think anywhere I have said that I want a remake of SWG. But just at Blizzard took good ideas from previous games and put together WoW, I see no reason any game in production, not just TOR, couldn't learn a quality lesson from the crafting and housing aspects of SWG and build upon it. It gives people more to do, which isn't a bad thing.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Nope.. I want a SWTOR game.. not a remake of the failed SWG.. but obviously some still can't remember or let go of the past..
I'll let go of the past when an MMO is released that is half as good as SWG used to be, instead of these regurgitated piles of crap so many people seem to scarf down with pleasure. I'm not saying SWG wasn't without it's flaws, it had too many to count. But the basic ideas and mechanics behind it are still unmatched to this day, no matter how bad SOE botched the rest of it. Taking the best of what that game offered would be an evolution in the genre, and if the current trend shows us anything, evolving is something this genre isn't doing.
It just amazes me that people are too dense to look passed a buggy implementation to see the quality of the basic idea.
First of all, you need to recognize that SWTOR is NOT WOW 2 and NOT SWG 2. It's KOTOR 3. Secondly, SWG was crap and was not like Star Wars at all. The essence wasn't there. SW =/= sandbox game. Where was the part of the movie where Luke's story was undefined and he just sat around dancing for money or other such nonsense? No, Star Wars is story and action, NOT sandbox.
I tried to get into SWG at 3 separate times, and each time I got tired of it. My final thoughts were that it was just and Everquest 1 clone with a SW coat of paint. The action wasn't paced correctly and the story was not there. How anybody can equate a SW coat of paint on Everquest to a great SW game is beyond me. I thought you couldn't polish a turd.
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Nope.. I want a SWTOR game.. not a remake of the failed SWG.. but obviously some still can't remember or let go of the past..
I'll let go of the past when an MMO is released that is half as good as SWG used to be, instead of these regurgitated piles of crap so many people seem to scarf down with pleasure. I'm not saying SWG wasn't without it's flaws, it had too many to count. But the basic ideas and mechanics behind it are still unmatched to this day, no matter how bad SOE botched the rest of it. Taking the best of what that game offered would be an evolution in the genre, and if the current trend shows us anything, evolving is something this genre isn't doing.
It just amazes me that people are too dense to look passed a buggy implementation to see the quality of the basic idea.
First of all, you need to recognize that SWTOR is NOT WOW 2 and NOT SWG 2. It's KOTOR 3. Secondly, SWG was crap and was not like Star Wars at all. The essence wasn't there. SW =/= sandbox game. Where was the part of the movie where Luke's story was undefined and he just sat around dancing for money or other such nonsense? No, Star Wars is story and action, NOT sandbox.
I tried to get into SWG at 3 separate times, and each time I got tired of it. My final thoughts were that it was just and Everquest 1 clone with a SW coat of paint. The action wasn't paced correctly and the story was not there. How anybody can equate a SW coat of paint on Everquest to a great SW game is beyond me. I thought you couldn't polish a turd.
This where you are absolutly wrong. Completly and utterly wrong. The Star Wars universe was brought to the pencil and paper gaming world a LONG time ago. Pencil and paper games in the mold of DnD are sandboxes. SW IS sandbox.
No, Luke didn't sit around dancing (though I can't imagine sitting down and dancing...I guess break dancing??). But he did spend alot of time building/repairing droids for his uncles moisture farm. Pretty sandbox to me. Chewbacca, putting C3PO back together after being dismantled on Bespin. All of the mechanics/crews you see working on star ships/fighters/stations in the various scenes of all the movies. The folks driving the public transportation vehicles in Corellian scenes. The people selling wares on the streets of Tantooine. The Bartender who remarks "We don't serve their kind in here".
No, I suppose you could take all of that out because it is sandbox and isn't Star Wars. Be one screwed up looking movie, though.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Nope.. I want a SWTOR game.. not a remake of the failed SWG.. but obviously some still can't remember or let go of the past..
I'll let go of the past when an MMO is released that is half as good as SWG used to be, instead of these regurgitated piles of crap so many people seem to scarf down with pleasure. I'm not saying SWG wasn't without it's flaws, it had too many to count. But the basic ideas and mechanics behind it are still unmatched to this day, no matter how bad SOE botched the rest of it. Taking the best of what that game offered would be an evolution in the genre, and if the current trend shows us anything, evolving is something this genre isn't doing.
It just amazes me that people are too dense to look passed a buggy implementation to see the quality of the basic idea.
First of all, you need to recognize that SWTOR is NOT WOW 2 and NOT SWG 2. It's KOTOR 3. Secondly, SWG was crap and was not like Star Wars at all. The essence wasn't there. SW =/= sandbox game. Where was the part of the movie where Luke's story was undefined and he just sat around dancing for money or other such nonsense?
Where was the part of the movie where the musician's in the Mos Eisley cantina destroyed the Death Star? So everybody has to be Luke in a Star Wars game? People aren't allowed to be any arbitrary character that wasn't flashing a glowstick and saving the galaxy? How do you form that into an MMO? Where everyone is the hero? Everyone is saving the galaxy? You can't and that is just stupid. The great thing about SWG was that you could be anything and anyone, simply living in the SW universe. Just because someone wasn't the main character of a movie doesn't mean they didn't have an interesting life, or that there aren't people out their that want to recreate something similar to them. Oh, And there was that whole part about Luke being a Farmer for 18 years of his life. That just wasn't shown in the movie.
No, Star Wars is story and action, NOT sandbox.
If you can't look deeper than the flash of a glowstick than I could see how you would assume this. Unfortunately you are very very wrong. I could look at the very simple things about the movies that point to how a "sandbox" style environment fits it perfectly, and completely ignore all of the EU that supports it. How about Luke and Obiwan owning houses on Tatooine? How about everyone have multiple skills and abilities not defined by a predetermined class? You know, Luke being a farmer, a pilot, an engineer(fixing the droids), a soldier, all before becoming a Jedi. Han being a Smuggler, a pilot, a soldier, a commando, an officer, an ship engineer. Many simple things about the movie lay claim to the immense universe that it took place in. But if you are too mesmorized by special effects to notice the deeper surroundings, than that is your shortcoming.
I tried to get into SWG at 3 separate times, and each time I got tired of it. My final thoughts were that it was just and Everquest 1 clone with a SW coat of paint.
So EQ 1 was a skill based sandbox with a completely player driven economy? I had no idea.
The action wasn't paced correctly and the story was not there. How anybody can equate a SW coat of paint on Everquest to a great SW game is beyond me. I thought you couldn't polish a turd.
The story was there, you were just too dense and ignorant to see it. The story was YOUR OWN. Yes, you were supposed to make your own story and live it out, not be held by the hand through a pre-determined story. Sorry you missed the point on that one.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I've seen this comparison often on this site, and it makes no sense to me.
EQ1 and SWG couldn't be more different. One is the grandaddy of the directed-content/themepark model. The other is/was a true sandbox where, once you got tired of hitting up terminals for quenker-killing missions, there was literally nothing to do other than make your own content.
I highlight that last bit because that's what SWG was: a canvas for creative players to paint on. It was not directed-content, it was not quest-driven, and it was not raid/group/item-focuses like EQ1 was.
I'm not saying one is better than the other, though I definitely have a preference, but equating EQ1 and SWG is completely off base. It can't be done.
Nope.. I want a SWTOR game.. not a remake of the failed SWG.. but obviously some still can't remember or let go of the past..
I'll let go of the past when an MMO is released that is half as good as SWG used to be, instead of these regurgitated piles of crap so many people seem to scarf down with pleasure. I'm not saying SWG wasn't without it's flaws, it had too many to count. But the basic ideas and mechanics behind it are still unmatched to this day, no matter how bad SOE botched the rest of it. Taking the best of what that game offered would be an evolution in the genre, and if the current trend shows us anything, evolving is something this genre isn't doing.
It just amazes me that people are too dense to look passed a buggy implementation to see the quality of the basic idea.
First of all, you need to recognize that SWTOR is NOT WOW 2 and NOT SWG 2. It's KOTOR 3. Secondly, SWG was crap and was not like Star Wars at all. The essence wasn't there. SW =/= sandbox game. Where was the part of the movie where Luke's story was undefined and he just sat around dancing for money or other such nonsense?
Where was the part of the movie where the musician's in the Mos Eisley cantina destroyed the Death Star? So everybody has to be Luke in a Star Wars game? People aren't allowed to be any arbitrary character that wasn't flashing a glowstick and saving the galaxy? How do you form that into an MMO? Where everyone is the hero? Everyone is saving the galaxy? You can't and that is just stupid. The great thing about SWG was that you could be anything and anyone, simply living in the SW universe. Just because someone wasn't the main character of a movie doesn't mean they didn't have an interesting life, or that there aren't people out their that want to recreate something similar to them. Oh, And there was that whole part about Luke being a Farmer for 18 years of his life. That just wasn't shown in the movie.
No, Star Wars is story and action, NOT sandbox.
If you can't look deeper than the flash of a glowstick than I could see how you would assume this. Unfortunately you are very very wrong. I could look at the very simple things about the movies that point to how a "sandbox" style environment fits it perfectly, and completely ignore all of the EU that supports it. How about Luke and Obiwan owning houses on Tatooine? How about everyone have multiple skills and abilities not defined by a predetermined class? You know, Luke being a farmer, a pilot, an engineer(fixing the droids), a soldier, all before becoming a Jedi. Han being a Smuggler, a pilot, a soldier, a commando, an officer, an ship engineer. Many simple things about the movie lay claim to the immense universe that it took place in. But if you are too mesmorized by special effects to notice the deeper surroundings, than that is your shortcoming.
I tried to get into SWG at 3 separate times, and each time I got tired of it. My final thoughts were that it was just and Everquest 1 clone with a SW coat of paint.
So EQ 1 was a skill based sandbox with a completely player driven economy? I had no idea.
The action wasn't paced correctly and the story was not there. How anybody can equate a SW coat of paint on Everquest to a great SW game is beyond me. I thought you couldn't polish a turd.
The story was there, you were just too dense and ignorant to see it. The story was YOUR OWN. Yes, you were supposed to make your own story and live it out, not be held by the hand through a pre-determined story. Sorry you missed the point on that one.
Q.E.D.
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
Currently playing: Law Degree, American Football.