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What's going on in Great Brittan?
vonomous
Member Posts: 357
I heard Gordan Brown getting grilled by Parliament. Is this normal? If so thats pretty awesome that your leaders have the balls to tell your PM to shove it. I wish our congress were so bold.
So then I read about the new terror alert from the Home Secretary. And I'm thinking, you Brits better chill out and do what the bankers say at G20. Or something like this is bound to happen...
What degree of social unrest are you guys experiencing over there right now?
"If you can't out wit them, report them till they're banned!"- PopinJ'
Comments
People are just getting sick of liberals and the ones in power are fearing a nation wide revolt.
i think every political party has its disadvantage. maybe changing another political party to rule the country, the ppl will also find a lot of dissatisfaction.
Having the PM grilled by Parlament is not a new thing. it happens all the time be the PM liberal or conservative. Brown has to do it, Blair , John Major, Thatcher, even Churchill and beyond all went through it. It's not a revolt against liberals as one other poster put it. It's a part of the running the British govenment.
I don't know but its Bush's fault
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
But on a more serious note
a little of this
and alot of this
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
Britain has a problem with radical Islam.
Police identify 200 children as potential terrorists
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-identify-200-children-as-potential-terrorists-1656027.html
As American, do not underestimate my love and esteem for the British people.
It is a great country and a great people.
The mess with Gordon Brown, in MY view, with DEEP respect to the British people, the deepest respect, is that he was not able to assess or explain the "economic" problem. He actually blamed, at least I thought so, the American sub-prime market for the British sub-prime market, which was just dishonest. It had the sense of, hey, we are not at fault, it was the Americans, which is not trust. The British people, in MY view, knew that was not true. I think he actually does not know how to fully assess the extent of this economic crisis.
As American, i dunno what's going on in Britain. Just wish everything will be alright
Anti-Capitalism once again
Samuel Brittan: Remarks on Civil Society, by Michael Edwards, Polity Press 2004
Delivered at Foreign Policy Centre 30/01/04
It is misleading to start with a verbal concept, such as civil society, and then look round for entities which it might to which it might apply. This is to commit the sin of what Karl Popper called essentialism - that is to assume that words have essential meanings and that progress can be made by searching for them. He preferred to try to understand what was happening in the world and try to formulate practical and concrete remedies, using whatever words came to hand.
I first came across the term civil society during the period of the break up of the European communist regimes. These regimes tried to control, regiment and sometimes forbid all intermediate associations between the individual and the state. Of course there were numerous clubs, organisations and societies - ranging from so-called peace movements to sporting clubs - which the communist regimes fostered. But it was always on their own terms and subject to many conditions and guidelines.
The term was continued in use after the collapse of the Iron Curtain. The suggestion was that - in contrast to de Tocqueville's United States - the absence of genuine voluntary civil associations made it very difficult for liberal democracies to emerge. Despite parliamentary elections and privatisation, habits of cronyism, bribery, cynical manipulation and even gang violence were the legacies of state systems, imposed by the Soviet Union, and which were distrusted not only by the citizens by the Eastern European rulers themselves.
This seems to me what Edwards means by his first category "associational life." The author is clearly not satisfied to stop here. Running through this book and so many others of this kind is a deep distrust of market relationships based mainly on general assertions which continental sociologists comfort each other and which they do not bother to check against available data, let alone the writings of serious scholars of varying political persuasions who try to study how modern globalised functions actually function.
Some ideas of Friedrich Hayek do help me at least to understand what is going on. If his name is simply a hate figure to you - as Margaret Thatcher's guru - and you want to rule out anything he might have said without reading it - that is tough luck. I have one or two minutes more. Hayek made a distinction between what he called the Great Society, a system of relations covering most of the globe in which we benefit from exchange with people of very different habits, politics and beliefs by means of contractual relationships based on market prices, and the enclosed tribal societies based often consisting of only a couple of hundred inter-related people, in which the human race has spent by far the greater part of its time on earth. In these small tribal societies it was possible to made decisions on face to face terms. Unlike anthropologists such as Margaret Mead, I will not glamorise such activities. But at least decisions on how to distribute the carcass of a newly killed animal were made by specific individuals - whether chiefs or medicine men or tribal assemblies - who could be identified, praised or blamed.
It is therefore hardly surprising that many human beings have found the market relationships of the Great Society, cold, impersonal and threatening. And although they have led to a vast improvement in living standards they did not bring about anything like "equality". The search, often hypocritical, for equality has been the bane of progressive movements in the past two centuries or more. It has often been sought at the expense of liberty and fraternity. It is of course never achieved except in the graveyard and not even really there. Indeed the denunciation of inequality is often a substitute for concrete measures to ameliorate poverty and hardship.
I am sure that some speakers have already come out with the blindingly original statement that man is a social animal. There is nothing in the Great Society or liberal political economy to discourage people from forming as many voluntary groups as they like. So long as they are genuinely voluntary and not coercive groups like unions maintaining their position by means of a closed shop and such like devices.
Even so we can go too far in romanticising them. The line between purely voluntary and coercive groups is difficult to draw. My favourite example is from Richard Wagner's Meistersinger von Nuremburg. The Guild of Music Masters was in principle a voluntary society. But it could ensure that anyone who wanted to perform without observing their increasingly pedantic rules would life very difficult indeed. It is pretty clear that their role was also to limit the number who would compete with them not only at music festivals but in their day jobs where they relied on Guild restrictions to keep out new entrants.
We have seen the demise both of hard socialism of the communist bloc and the soft socialism that has been tried in democratic countries. But people who have been brought up as collectivists are desperately looking for ways of continuing the struggle under different labels.
A few years ago the slogan was communitarism. When this was found to be pretty empty as a political doctrine, the label changed to civil society. It was a fig leaf so that those who adopted new labels could still carry on with their stock in trade of denigrating capitalism and all its works. But there is a still more fundamental difference. On one side there are those who take the individual as the primary unit and there are those who put their emphasis on the group, which is what Tony Blair claimed to do when he re-wrote Clause Four of the Labour Party constitution. Those who believe in genuinely voluntary civil associations are on the individualist side; but those who want to use state power to promote them or to twist their aims are the enemies of freedom. And if this sounds like old fashioned anti-communist language then so be it.
Soft socialism...thats whats happen
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
HAHAHAHA
sure
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I find it funny how Churchill didn't get voted in again after WW2......
Business as normal here. Parliament is always like that.
But Gordon Brown has to go abroad before they really get to grill him. Parliament has a self-envigilation system that keeps it down to a minimum. (What kind of questions you can ask, who gets to ask what specific question and when. Only the leader of the opposition gets free choice to ask any 3 questions he pleases once a week).
The latest terror alert was about a guy who got caught spraying grafitti on a wall (bankers are gay or some such). He was found to own imitation weapons and some fireworks. The definition of terrorist round here is pretty broad.
In ireland there are people making car bombs and burning down schools, but that doesn't count. It isn't allowed to be called terrorism because that would mean all the politicians who took credit for ending the violence would be liars. As I said the definition of terrorism here is pretty broad. Hence the gunning down of British soliders in Ireland by the IRA last month was murder, and grafitti on a wall in Plymouth was terrorism.
There have been marches in London again this week. Thats' twice in one week. There is no great civil unrest. The marches are not allowed anywhere near the world leaders at the G20. The anti capitalists are there so there will probably be some argy bargy with the police before the day is through. The one last week was entirely peaceful and so far today's has been too.
Hopefully we will manage to completely ignore what the bankers say at G20, and also our politicians. Everyone at G20 is pushing their own self serving agenda's. We need to be doing the same. Our economies and banking sectors are not all modelled on theirs, theirs are all modelled on ours. Independance from them all is what has made us so many trillions of pounds in the last few decades. We might be down, but now is not the time to go out.
There isn't a significant British sub prime market. We use a different system. Social housing. Low income families get free housing on the government, not enforced mortgages. British banks collapsed due to their exposure to the U.S. sub prime market.
It's not just the British politicians who blame the American sub prime market for the banking collapse, the entire world does.
I agree however this is a handy scapegoat to peg all our economies woes upon, neatly sidestepping who was responsable for all the many of our own entirely domestically created economic woes.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, im sorry but that is god damn awful even for you precusor..who the hell told you that? Nationwide revolt..omg...his popularity is increasing again. The only reason why his popularity was low in the first palce was some events out of hands and the general economic downturn in which people generally tend to blame the government. and your other post on radical islam...dumbest thing i've ever heard, i've learnt to never trust any of your evidence given or most of your posts...please read up on Britain PORPERLY before making a stupid comment like that. I actually live in Britain btw..just in case your thinking how can i talk...
"If they can make Penicillin out of mouldy bread, they can sure make something out of you," - Muhammed Ali
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, im sorry but that is god damn awful even for you precusor..who the hell told you that? Nationwide revolt..omg...his popularity is increasing again. The only reason why his popularity was low in the first palce was some events out of hands and the general economic downturn in which people generally tend to blame the government. and your other post on radical islam...dumbest thing i've ever heard, i've learnt to never trust any of your evidence given or most of your posts...please read up on Britain PORPERLY before making a stupid comment like that. I actually live in Britain btw..just in case your thinking how can i talk...
You can speak to Great Britain's intentions just as every American poster here speaks to America's intentions.
I'm thinking you can talk with your mouth though, I know stuff is different across the pond, but I wasn't wondering how you can talk.
------------------
Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
April 1st and 2nd and 3rd....see you in the streets..
WTO video
Britain soon to ask for IMF money
The Tory leader said that "the money will run out" very soon if Gordon Brown is allowed to continue with his financial recovery plan.
"Then you will see the return of what happened under Labour in the 1970s, including emergency cuts to many of the public services on which a progressive society depends.
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
That's an old one matey, the money has run out since he wrote that. The government is in debt and people aren't buying government bonds.
From now on it's tax rises and government cuts only.
And while opinion poles certain don't provide any evidence of Browns rising popularity, quite the opposite, Precursors Muslim hatreds are most certainly not in anyway indicative of British opinion or life. This is a secular culture.
Muslims are far more popular here than extreme right wingers and facists.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, im sorry but that is god damn awful even for you precusor..who the hell told you that? Nationwide revolt..omg...his popularity is increasing again. The only reason why his popularity was low in the first palce was some events out of hands and the general economic downturn in which people generally tend to blame the government. and your other post on radical islam...dumbest thing i've ever heard, i've learnt to never trust any of your evidence given or most of your posts...please read up on Britain PORPERLY before making a stupid comment like that. I actually live in Britain btw..just in case your thinking how can i talk...
You can speak to Great Britain's intentions just as every American poster here speaks to America's intentions.
I'm thinking you can talk with your mouth though, I know stuff is different across the pond, but I wasn't wondering how you can talk.
i don't think you understood what i meant by 'how can i talk' figure of speech...
"If they can make Penicillin out of mouldy bread, they can sure make something out of you," - Muhammed Ali
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, im sorry but that is god damn awful even for you precusor..who the hell told you that? Nationwide revolt..omg...his popularity is increasing again. The only reason why his popularity was low in the first palce was some events out of hands and the general economic downturn in which people generally tend to blame the government. and your other post on radical islam...dumbest thing i've ever heard, i've learnt to never trust any of your evidence given or most of your posts...please read up on Britain PORPERLY before making a stupid comment like that. I actually live in Britain btw..just in case your thinking how can i talk...
You can speak to Great Britain's intentions just as every American poster here speaks to America's intentions.
I'm thinking you can talk with your mouth though, I know stuff is different across the pond, but I wasn't wondering how you can talk.
i don't think you understood what i meant by 'how can i talk' figure of speech...
LOl he understood.. turn your /sarcasm detector on.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, im sorry but that is god damn awful even for you precusor..who the hell told you that? Nationwide revolt..omg...his popularity is increasing again. The only reason why his popularity was low in the first palce was some events out of hands and the general economic downturn in which people generally tend to blame the government. and your other post on radical islam...dumbest thing i've ever heard, i've learnt to never trust any of your evidence given or most of your posts...please read up on Britain PORPERLY before making a stupid comment like that. I actually live in Britain btw..just in case your thinking how can i talk...
You can speak to Great Britain's intentions just as every American poster here speaks to America's intentions.
I'm thinking you can talk with your mouth though, I know stuff is different across the pond, but I wasn't wondering how you can talk.
i don't think you understood what i meant by 'how can i talk' figure of speech...
LOl he understood.. turn your /sarcasm detector on.
lol aah i misread lol sorry
"If they can make Penicillin out of mouldy bread, they can sure make something out of you," - Muhammed Ali
LOL I'm still getting up to speed on how power is divided over there..i was completely unaware how the lower house has no power what so ever..Not sure if you call it lower house tho,your post have helped tho.keep up the good work mate..I love it when you use that phrase.Matey,HA
but I just have to ask..do you think the UK will hit IMF up for some loans.
And what do you think about the fact the UK will be the first to pull out of the EU.as you know many are speculating that their is a real chance that it just might happen.Or is it just a bunch of back lash talk.
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
LOL I'm still getting up to speed on how power is divided over there..i was completely unaware how the lower house has no power what so ever..Not sure if you call it lower house tho,your post have helped tho.keep up the good work mate..I love it when you use that phrase.Matey,HA
but I just have to ask..do you think the UK will hit IMF up for some loans.
And what do you think about the fact the UK will be the first to pull out of the EU.as you know many are speculating that their is a real chance that it just might happen.Or is it just a bunch of back lash talk.
Nah i dont think they will leave the Eu, they'll probably take it furhter and adopt the Euro if the pound weakens even more. Btw the lower house i.e House of Commons has all the power, the lower house (house of Lords) is there to scrutinise laws and only have the power to send bills back to the house of commons upto 2 times before it is forced past house of lords.
"If they can make Penicillin out of mouldy bread, they can sure make something out of you," - Muhammed Ali
LOL I'm still getting up to speed on how power is divided over there..i was completely unaware how the lower house has no power what so ever..Not sure if you call it lower house tho,your post have helped tho.keep up the good work mate..I love it when you use that phrase.Matey,HA
but I just have to ask..do you think the UK will hit IMF up for some loans.
And what do you think about the fact the UK will be the first to pull out of the EU.as you know many are speculating that their is a real chance that it just might happen.Or is it just a bunch of back lash talk.
Nah i dont think they will leave the Eu, they'll probably take it furhter and adopt the Euro if the pound weakens even more. Btw the lower house i.e House of Commons has all the power, the lower house (house of Lords) is there to scrutinise laws and only have the power to send bills back to the house of commons upto 2 times before it is forced past house of lords.
Can they just boot Brown,or does it take a special election, I mean Brown looks like he is getting the tar beat out of him.
You think he will last.
I see,thx for clearing that up for me.
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
They can't boot him easily. If the opposition leader was in power they could boot him quite easily.
Each party has it's own system of electing and deselecting it's leaders. I've no idea how the Labour Party do it, if they ever have done, they haven't in my lifetime.
Will Brown last? He will last as long as his first election, then he will be gone. He hasn't had one yet, and knowing he can't survive one, he won't call one. So he will leave it to the very last day he is allowed to stay in power and then call one and lose his job the same day. Good riddence. (He is not a very special Prime Minister to say the least, but he was a catastrophic Chancellor of the Exchequor and deserves his day of reckoning).
Will they take an IMF loan? Possibly, but I don't think so and I don't think the IMF has enough money in it's bank to offer one worth taking. The last time we took one, was during the previous Labour government's term in the 1970's. So it isn't beyond imagination and it isn't something I haven't seen them do before.
Will Britain leave the EU? Public opinion would support it and even vote for it if allowed, but they will never be allowed to. The political classes want the EU. I think it would take a world event like a war or plague (or ZOMBIES!) or something to get Britain out of the EU.
Other countries in danger of leaving are Ireland (who do get to vote, and to revote when they vote wrong), Italy, Hungary and Czech. But I don't think it is a particulalry great danger for any of them. More wishful thinking on the part of those who want out. If anyone ever does vote to leave the EU, they will just get asked to vote to join the EU again every year for the rest of eternity until they just give up.
I want an EU to prevent EU nations from killing each other and requiring Uncle Sam (U.S. farm boys and inner-city youth) to go there and clean house. Too costly, in blood and treasure.
Does the UK need an EU?
So much of its "finance" industry is involved with swaps of the pound.
I love the UK and wish it the best, with everything.