Like it or not but I don't see massively world PvP in GW. That's because it's not the point in GW as explained in my earlier post. Nor do I see the 71 deep talent settings in that game for each class. Every class has 150+ skills. There are 10 classes in total and every character is a dual-class so the number of different eight skill variations is rather huge. I really don't know why you bring this up. Advertisement? So saying that GW has PvP mechanics ok, but not even remotely diverse as the 40vs40 AV or unlimited number of Lake Wintergrasp either. I understand this is a ripoff from GW's GvG? Somebody other than Zorn could confirm this. And the Wow Arena competition tournaments are played with FREE to choose gear on maxed out characters, so skill primes gear in those 200.000 dollar WOW tournaments. This is an improvement on WoW's part but casual matches are still based on gear. Not to mention you have to level up your character to do it properly. The CC and tactics combined with fast fluid control of your avatars make for an unmatched control in fast PvP fights. Tuned through arena data and constantly fine tuned by Blizzard patches and the famous polishment of Blizzard. Dude. GW patches itself while you're playing. It is hardly unique. I posted a bug report and saw a patch in 20min where it was fixed. Talking about polish to a GW player isn't an argument. GW released as one of the most polished game out there and had a very succesful launch which seems to be quite rare these days. Some call Wow more a FPS experience due to these facts. Yeah, they say that about GW too... Should I be impressed? Call it Bla Bla as you want, but facts are facts. So MORE PVP playing options in present day Wow than in the instanced GW's. (and purely instanced because of graphics loading). Again man, get your facts straight. GW is instanced for the sole purpose that it is significantly cheaper to run (server costs). That is why it needs no subscription.
You haven't played GW, haven't you? EIther that or you're a troll. Even if you tried GW PvP, I bet you got your ass handed to you in the random arenas. Sorry man, it's hardly PvP. Everyone's just goofing there or killing time.
Gotta tell ya Zorn. You're my favorite fanboi. Love your rantings!
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I've seen this by a few people. I admit I haven't played EvE for an extensive period of time (usually I'll resub for a month, just for a different type of game play) and it probably isn't my type of game. However, I really would like to know what makes the pvp in this game superior to everyone elses (other than the death penalty). The space combat in the game just doesn't do it for me.
Edit: On a WoW side note, I looked on the first 2 pages on their pvp forum on WoW's site, nothing but complaints. I didn't see one positive comment. Now I realize forums are mostly for people to whine and complain but I would think some people would be satisfied or happy there. WoW is a great pve game, but their pvp is an after thought.
The only MMORPG games that deserve to be talked to as having PvP are those games with a built in arena system. Wow, GW and the newly launched ROM come to mind. Why? They have things to be discussed with ...... data back up Without ANY data you can't even speak of PvP balancing tools between classes. You all may hate Arena PvP, but it is the ONLY in game tool to ensure developpers can see the results of class interactions. Designers have the ingame data stats, while players can see result data (which are NOT the same of course) based on 3vs3 or 5v5 or whatever elements in WELL defined and controlled settings. What's the use of having a PvP game in which you don't have ANY data to compare how good the interactive mechanics are. ---- So conclusion ------- 1 First: The best PvP based game must have the BEST in game analysis tx to DATA mining of the fights in well pre-defined settings 2. Secondly: the best PvP game must have fluid fast and very responsive controls and spell casts to allow immediate and controlled actions and counter actions. You battle the enemy not the mechanics.
All the rest is Bblablabblablabla (RvR, FFA, Full loot , etc, etc ...) Because if point 1 nor point 2 are there: you don't have anything meaningful to .... DISCUSS.
Ill have a take on you. Old wow player here.
Truth before wotlk came out wow's pvp in arena was UNBALACED. I DAMN DARE YOU TO TELL ME THE CONTRARY.
3 classes dominated the arenas. Shamans were cannonfodder . RESTO Druids were gods. The same formula plagued wow for years till wotlk came out. I know this because i did play a shaman. even as a resto shaman i couldnt even beat the resto druids shadow. I was easly taken out i had NO absolutely no ability to escape a focus fire attack while resto druids had plenty of ways to get out of it.
WOTLK came out and i played a DK to lvl 80 . Wintergrasp was a joke, infact I NEVER SEEN ON MY SERVER A 100 VS 100 WINTERGRASP WAR. that pure bull i have seen prob the most 20 vs 30 but many of em were just a few players on each side, the lesser side getting buffs.
The only good thing that WOTLK started to bring back were city raids but this was more due to the achivements and the black bear mount. Once i got mines it was pointless to go back. So in due time those famous city raids will die out.
I have been on and off of WoW and its pvp was NOT one of the reasons to go back to it. WoW is king in the pve depo it really shines there and when major updates come i flock back to wow just to see what new pve it has. Its pvp is pointless and in arenas its all sided to a few classes. Soon a group of classes will once again reign king in the arenas , especially 3v3 since thats where the tournaments focus on. All other class combos will suck to the best combo found which means only 3 of all the classes will be worth investing you time for it.
That completely negates your statement on how blizard gets their data. Cuz if that was true. healers other than the druid would have been used in the arenas. Let us not forget of the vids of the blizzard staff using a shaman in their set up and how the team that trounced them mocked them with bringing only 2 players to the fight and still kicking their ass.
Wows pvp is basicly going thru groundhog day. its pointless, it does nothing to affect the players save wintergrasp. and that is negated that as soon as the few hours pass if you want to do the boss fight all you need to do is go to any major city, announce that wintergrasp is comming and have a huge amount of people go. Pointless.
If i want my fix in pvp games ill go to those games where pvp affects the enviorment. War is out of the question with that statement alone. L2 , Eve and other games like them win the title. I cant comment on darkfall but after reading some of the threads on the forumfall pvp has alot to do with the game. destroying clan cities ect. Eve takes the crown because if you die in pvp, it affects not only you, but your corp and your allience. pvp in not only just ship blasting in eve. you can pvp in the economy. work politics to your favor. theres just much more than sending a fleet to attack a place and thats what makes it great.
There are many fantasy games that have many features close to eve but wow is NOT one of them. You die and come back to life and get back into the battle. In eve you die, you have to get a new clone, get into another ship and fly back to the battlefield there is a high chance when you get back its over.
Thats where it counts. Games like wow they have to give you an objective to finish a battle. be it kill some npc or capture an object. If those were non exsistant the pvp will never end . Eve the pvp ends as soon as one side loses its ships. you just can run back to the battle. In darkfall on what ive read you respawn after a min from dying and your completely nakid. while you can get back to the battle your gimped to hell vs people with armor, youll die again. in both eve and darkfalls battles have a meaning to it they end. you lose and you lost territory. You dont lose shit in wow.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
I think Guild Wars has the best PvP. The first release was designed for you to learn the basics of your character, build skill and unlock mods through the endgame, then go to the Battle Isles and use your skills in PvP. There are more arguments, even today, about skill balances than any other subject. Their max level is intended as a stepping stone for your character, not the endgame. PvP is multi-tiered, with competitive missions, Random Arenas and Alliance Battles, progressing through Team arenas and Heroes Ascent, to Guild vs Guild fights for rankings. While the game has added more PvE content as it gained popularity, PvP hasn't suffered, sticking to the philosophy of skill>time played. For me, that is more important than being able to farm or buy your way to success in PvP.
Other than the "turd" issue explained so eloquently, the issue I have with EVE is that, if you got into the game less than a year or two ago, you will never be able to achieve the flexibility at the high end that someone playing the game a few years will have. True, you can still become well adept in one or two skill sets, but you can;t switch roles or characters and still be a valuable asset to your team. In GW, I can switch from a Monk to a Necro to a War, depending on the team's need. It allows you to understand the workings of the different professions in the meta, without needing to put weeks or months(or years, in EVE) building a character up. It also keeps the PvP interesting.
A lot of people make a big deal about the huge battles and raids in WAR or WoW. Thing is, this A) requires little individual skill, and leads to the winner, nine times out of ten, being a numbers game. Whoever has greater numbers and better gear, in most cases, WILL WIN! Play 8 vs 8, with all of them having access to the same skills and mods, and it comes down to the team with the best strategy and synergy winning. In Guild Wars, the only motivation for getting different armors is aesthetic. Other than looks, there is no advantage in paying 150k for a set of armor as opposed to 10k.
The thing I like best about the game is the way the classes are treated. The best Warriors aren't "tanks". In fact, mentioning paladin on the forums will get enough flames to rival the sun. They kill stuff, and kill it well. The trinity is not guaranteed to be the best way to win. A team of Necros can steamroll through some battles, depending on the skill of the players. While Build Wars does sometimes happen, most times the devs will nerf a few skills if a build or builds becomes too over-powered. Few PvP OP builds ever last more than a month.
Finally, no other game has the Mesmer. Never have I been more cursed at or caused more crying than when playing this girl.
MMO games played or tested: EQ, DAoC, Archlord, Auto Assault, CoH, CoV, EQ2, EVE, Guild Wars, Hellgate: London, Linneage II, LOTRO, MxO, Planetside, SWG, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WWIIOL, WOW, Age of Conan
Neocron WAS Darkfall done right (with the exception of full looting). But one wonders, what is the point to full looting if the loot doesn't make a whole shit a difference when equipped? Just stating as I have never played the game.
To the OP - did you ever think your buddy at work is just a jerk?
Seriously if you like the game you're playing and are having fun tell him to STFU!
No one on this thread or any other has ever agreed on what 'perfect' PvP is!
You have the instanced PvP group - arenas/BGS/Scenarios
The ganking lowbies crowd that spends hours killing others that give them no honor/no rep, but they get to sit and giggle to themselves
The no loss it's not PvP set - "you didn't lose all your loot it's carebear"
Structured PvP - RvR lakes, etc.
World PvP Raids/group fights
Other
Darkfall is suppose to be PvP focused, but what does that mean? No PvE? You just wander around killing people randomly? That in theory sounds like it would get boring fairly quickly. I haven't tried it though as I'm waiting for the game kinks to be worked out.
I've never played EvE (same thing I don't want to be a ship!), but have heard it's addictively fun. WoW, AoC, WAR, LoTRO, EQ2, GW and the rest of the MMO's have elements of PvP and some parts are fun in each but none are the - must play for the PvP game of the day!
Personally I've found something in each that was fun and something that I detested, so play what you're comfortable with and enjoy yourself - heck it's your money you should be enjoying your time!
I would have to say your poll is very unbalanced,you have games that are very much pvp and other's that are some what pvp,also there are a couple of game's that spring to mind that should have been in the poll.
I think you have taken your own grasp on pvp and made a poll and not a mmo player's grasp on pvp,while polls are maybe nice it is maybe best to start them with the views of others in mind,maybe that is why "other"is doing quite well.
If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"
It's completely subjective as one person's good pvp is another person's bad pvp. For instance, from your list i would say Lineage 2 and Guild Wars. However they are both extremely different. Lineage 2, regardless of some of the recent changes that were made to make things easier for players, still requires a time commitment and has a heavy pve component in order to level up. Not to mention the hard economy. There is more consequence if one loses. However, it has an open world and relies more on player interaction and politics. Guild Wars doesn't require a PvE component (though there is one) and one could do nothing but PvP all the time. However, it is more arena pvp and matches and ladder ratings so it's more gladitorial without much of of consequence if one loses. So choose your poison.
i didnt do much pvp in the time i spent playing lineage 2 tbh so i cant vote for it. all i did was pve and occassionally got ganked. there is no point pvp'ing in lineage 2 till your 60+ and that takes a long time to get to.
I think it's hard to compare EVE to the rest of that list, since in EVE you play as a spaceship, and the rest of the games (I think) you play as a humanoid. I know the topic is PvP, not what your character is, but it would seem hard to compare the two. Maybe if you had a version of EVE with similar combat structure, where you played a person and not a ship would be a lot easier to compare.
C'mon use your imagination Ship = your armor, mount and weapons all in one. Add a z-axis to the battlefield and there you go.
(I know it is more complex since you can fly in different classes of ships which make the encounters much more diverse but I see that as an advantage for EVE, tbh.)
PVP in EVE is diverse, challenging and pretty much skill / tactics based. Damn good pvp mmorpg, even though it is in space. (Maybe it was because it was my first mmorpg, but after EVE and a few times in WOW, I have never sat behind my keyboard, trembling my friggin' ass off during a pvp encounter).
Yes, I get it. My point was, I don't want to play a ship, so it's going to be hard to compare something I have absolutey no interest in, to games that actually interest me, no matter how good the PvP is.
Think of it this way. A game has what is a potentially awesome PvP system, but you play it as a turd. It's going to be hard to say it's great compared to a game that may or many not have as awesome of a PvP system, but you don't play as a turd.
You're saying, just forget you're a turd, and concentrate on teh PvP System! I can't. I"m still going to give the edge to the game where I don't play as a turd.
I"d prefer DAoC before any expansions, with updated graphics.
Their original RvR system is the best PvP design for MMORPGs so far, IMO.
You make a game like EVE where I walk around as a person, and never get in a spaceship, then maybe I'll change my mind.
and no one wants to play as a turd in space lmfao.
It depends , but it certainly surpasses everything else on the market at the moment in massively played action.
I think it's got a long way to go before it comes anywhere near EVE, but it's a good start. That aside, since the combat doesn't affect the game world any, WOW numbers are kind of immaterial for this particular poll.
It affects the game world. First owning the Lake Wintergrasp zone opens up a Raid instance to have better PvP gear (even the best in game).
Secondly, every other end game dungeons drop extra loot when owning the open world PvP Zone.
I was talking of Fantasy mmorpg's only of course (both in arena way and in fluid control movement principles).
I didn't say anything on games like EVE or PotBS sea battles.
wow is not a pvp game dummy hence why its not on the list. you are a horrible fanboy.
Originally posted by Zorndorf Like it or not but I don't see massively world PvP in GW. Nor do I see the 71 deep talent settings in that game for each class. So saying that GW has PvP mechanics ok, but not even remotely diverse as the 40vs40 AV or unlimited number of Lake Wintergrasp either. And the Wow Arena competition tournaments are played with FREE to choose gear on maxed out characters, so skill primes gear in those 200.000 dollar WOW tournaments. The CC and tactics combined with fast fluid control of your avatars make for an unmatched control in fast PvP fights. Tuned through arena data and constantly fine tuned by Blizzard patches and the famous polishment of Blizzard. Some call Wow more a FPS experience due to these facts. Call it Bla Bla as you want, but facts are facts. So MORE PVP playing options in present day Wow than in the instanced GW's. (and purely instanced because of graphics loading).
Firstly, you don't seem to be understanding the fact that Guild Wars PvP is not "massive" because it is balanced. The Hall of Heroes is the most people you'll see in a battle together and for a very good reason. The game is a balancing act and introducing more players in certain matches, for example, will result in some very unwanted results. Healers could outheal damage dealers and make teams impossible to beat, for example.
Secondly, I'm sorry but have you even played Guild Wars? Your greatest argument is that "In WoW you can have more players!" That's not the point and definitely not what PvP is about. It seems like your idea of PvP involves grabbing a group of people and mobbing the other team. Guild Wars works very, very differently. It encourages players to create a build that works with the rest of their team's, and encourages teamwork. You can beat another team without any armor or weapons if you know what you're doing and play your build correctly. You can also have exactly the same build as another player and beat them easily.
Your WoW Arena Competition is...cute...but in Guild Wars you can create maximum level PvP characters with completely free gear and weapons whenever you want. Add to that the fact that not only are there monthly tournaments in which anyone can get involved/rewarded for following, but they can view the matches in real time via observer mode. Apart from that, there is also the $100 000 Guild Wars tournament that is held.
Have you ever watched a high-end Guild Wars PvP battle? Guild Wars combat is BY FAR the most fast-paced there is out there. You have low health and energy with fast regeneration rates for a reason. Many spells and abilities range from insta-cast to 1 second casts, with the most being around 4 seconds for extremely powerful spells. With regards to patches and polish...you clearly weren't there when WoW launched were you? The launch was plagued with problems. Blizzard have managed to sort that out nicely, but Guild Wars had one of the, if not the smoothest MMO launch yet. They release updates on a very regular basis that balance skills, fix bugs (which are so rare it honestly puts other companies to shame - by far the most polished MMO I've played) etc.
And lastly, I find your comparison of WoW to a FPS utterly laughable. I'm a fan of both games but oh goodness, you're really fooling yourself if you think that. If either of the games can be compared to one it's Guild Wars (though I still don't know why you would want to compare it to a totally different genre). Guild Wars allows you to manually dodge arrows and projectiles, body-block the enemy in order to stop them from moving in a particular direction, interrupt your target's actions etc.
Ultimately, I think you're trying to excuse WoW's PvP being a game of numbers, stats and gear with the number of players that can enter battle. All one really needs to do is google a gear/talent build and grind until you can run it, then from there on out you don't really need to do much at all other than trust in your stats doing the job for you. Guild Wars is a game of skill. There really is no arguing it. The worst of trolls simply can't deny the fact. One has to adapt one's skill build to different situations. One can swap and change between builds and secondary professions, as well as attributes whenever one wants to for free (unlike WoW's talent and gear system...which I find to be pathetic). Guild Wars was designed AROUND PvP and the evidence is undeniable. World of Warcraft added PvP as an afterthought.
Originally posted by Zorndorf NO BG's, NO open world PvP, NO massive fights with destructable towers or Keeps, They do have Arena's, yes but all other options aren't even in their game. So I play the game with more options. As do the 11.500.000 other ones who PAY for the game and not run for a free to play surrogat with AWFUL controls btw.
Guild Wars has GvG, skirmishes, Random Arenas, Team Arenas, Heroe's Ascent, Hero Battles, Alliance Battles, Fort Aspenwood (siege battle), The Jade Quarry, various other level-specific arenas etc. Not to mention holiday-specific arenas such as the Snowball Arena or Rollerbeetle Racing! All of these forms of PvP are very different to each other. Exactly how many of these are in WoW? Yeah...I thought so. World of Warcraft has nowhere near as much diversity. Honestly, if ArenaNet wanted to all they'd need to do is create an arena and up the player limit to something like 40 per side and we'd have a WoW battleground. Oh joy!
6 million people have bought Guild Wars for a reason. For a completely new company with no other games behind its name, that number is excellent.
And lastly, Guild Wars' controls are exactly the same as WoW...what are you going on about? Not only is there WASD movement but also click-to-move should you prefer that. Seriously people...try actually playing a game before mindlessly bashing it as it really results in a loss of credibility on your part.
Your *only* argument thus far is that because WoW has more players it is somehow a better PvP game. LMAO. Ever heard of PvE? The very large majority of my WoW friendbase hardly touch PvP because, quite frankly, they think it sucks. As a PvE game, I find WoW excellent. As a PvP game, it has some serious issues. If you plan on convincing anyone that it's a good PvP game, you're going to have to come up with something other than "we can have more people in a single battle!!!1" and "more people play WoW so tis a better PvP game!!"
is it really that important to convince others too play your mmorpg that your currently addicted to? lol ive been seeing a lot of that on here lately.. pvp wise...i wouldnt say for everyone any game would be considered best...so many different styles of pvp depending on size and game style.. i played wow for awhile...don't really get into the pvp there..just not for me.. arenas are fun sure for a little bit,, WG was ok...part from the mega server lagggg...but WoW has always had a bit of a grinnddd to it...which i cant stand...thats why i stopped playing.. currently playing WAR..which i do enjoy...i think its hilarious though that everyone is so pissed off about career balance and such... sure there are days where i get owned over and over...but then the tables turn...WAR is totally different style and i wouldnt say takes as much brain power or reasoning on which spell/skill to use at 1.5 seconds in...lol...but thats what i love about it...anyways..theres my thoughts..
1. WotLK is the ONLY Fantasy MMORPG these days where EVERY night you have multiple massive WORLD fights of at least 100/100 over a destructable Keep and with destructable (offensively owned) towers with riding artillery, tank to tank battles, collapsable walls .... on EVERY server and NON instanced btw.
100 vs 100 battles on every server every night? Nice!
Multiple times. And with Tanks, destructable walls, collapsable towers and Keep, siege artillery that actually can be driven,
OK I'll admit above 4 Raids against 4 (160/160) is a bit laggy, but at least I can have them whenever I WANT too. ))
Not including Wow as a PvP game is an insult to millions of Wow PvP players.
Including WoW as a PvP game is an insult to anyone that knows what balanced PvP is.
The fact that you say this means that you know what a balanced PvP game is and NOT ... Blizzard with its staff of dozens of game designers.
Good for you. It shows you're a self declared genious.
But I doubt it you know it better than a company who has developped it all and ... have millions of arena data to track anything you would like to add as an insult to the best MMORPG developpers in recent years.
You don't deserve a game as polished as Wow, that's a certainty.
Apparently I do know it better. If you think WoW PvP is balanced then you obviously don't play the game. What, one spec is "arena viable" per class for Arenas? And even with everyone in "the spec", certain classes completely dominate over others? Yeah, that sounds like balance to me.
So now Blizzard is the best MMORPG developers? Hmm. On what basis are we judging them? Polish? Sure, with the time it takes them to actually make new content, it better be polished. But they do make polished games, I'll give them that. Are we going to judge them on creativity? Originality? Complexity? They come pretty close to last on all of those.
Polish does not make a game great. Mechanics are more important than polish. SWG was my favorite game of all time, and it was a buggy mess. I would play that game over WoW any day, as it offered more than a simple gear tredmill.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Comments
Best PvP game I ever played was Ultima Online hands down before AOS expansion, and even before UOR was better
Now I like WAR, Is it perfect? Not by a long shot, but it at least has kept me entertain for 5 months now.
You haven't played GW, haven't you? EIther that or you're a troll. Even if you tried GW PvP, I bet you got your ass handed to you in the random arenas. Sorry man, it's hardly PvP. Everyone's just goofing there or killing time.
Gotta tell ya Zorn. You're my favorite fanboi. Love your rantings!
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
EvE
/thread
I've seen this by a few people. I admit I haven't played EvE for an extensive period of time (usually I'll resub for a month, just for a different type of game play) and it probably isn't my type of game. However, I really would like to know what makes the pvp in this game superior to everyone elses (other than the death penalty). The space combat in the game just doesn't do it for me.
Edit: On a WoW side note, I looked on the first 2 pages on their pvp forum on WoW's site, nothing but complaints. I didn't see one positive comment. Now I realize forums are mostly for people to whine and complain but I would think some people would be satisfied or happy there. WoW is a great pve game, but their pvp is an after thought.
Ill have a take on you. Old wow player here.
Truth before wotlk came out wow's pvp in arena was UNBALACED. I DAMN DARE YOU TO TELL ME THE CONTRARY.
3 classes dominated the arenas. Shamans were cannonfodder . RESTO Druids were gods. The same formula plagued wow for years till wotlk came out. I know this because i did play a shaman. even as a resto shaman i couldnt even beat the resto druids shadow. I was easly taken out i had NO absolutely no ability to escape a focus fire attack while resto druids had plenty of ways to get out of it.
WOTLK came out and i played a DK to lvl 80 . Wintergrasp was a joke, infact I NEVER SEEN ON MY SERVER A 100 VS 100 WINTERGRASP WAR. that pure bull i have seen prob the most 20 vs 30 but many of em were just a few players on each side, the lesser side getting buffs.
The only good thing that WOTLK started to bring back were city raids but this was more due to the achivements and the black bear mount. Once i got mines it was pointless to go back. So in due time those famous city raids will die out.
I have been on and off of WoW and its pvp was NOT one of the reasons to go back to it. WoW is king in the pve depo it really shines there and when major updates come i flock back to wow just to see what new pve it has. Its pvp is pointless and in arenas its all sided to a few classes. Soon a group of classes will once again reign king in the arenas , especially 3v3 since thats where the tournaments focus on. All other class combos will suck to the best combo found which means only 3 of all the classes will be worth investing you time for it.
That completely negates your statement on how blizard gets their data. Cuz if that was true. healers other than the druid would have been used in the arenas. Let us not forget of the vids of the blizzard staff using a shaman in their set up and how the team that trounced them mocked them with bringing only 2 players to the fight and still kicking their ass.
Wows pvp is basicly going thru groundhog day. its pointless, it does nothing to affect the players save wintergrasp. and that is negated that as soon as the few hours pass if you want to do the boss fight all you need to do is go to any major city, announce that wintergrasp is comming and have a huge amount of people go. Pointless.
If i want my fix in pvp games ill go to those games where pvp affects the enviorment. War is out of the question with that statement alone. L2 , Eve and other games like them win the title. I cant comment on darkfall but after reading some of the threads on the forumfall pvp has alot to do with the game. destroying clan cities ect. Eve takes the crown because if you die in pvp, it affects not only you, but your corp and your allience. pvp in not only just ship blasting in eve. you can pvp in the economy. work politics to your favor. theres just much more than sending a fleet to attack a place and thats what makes it great.
There are many fantasy games that have many features close to eve but wow is NOT one of them. You die and come back to life and get back into the battle. In eve you die, you have to get a new clone, get into another ship and fly back to the battlefield there is a high chance when you get back its over.
Thats where it counts. Games like wow they have to give you an objective to finish a battle. be it kill some npc or capture an object. If those were non exsistant the pvp will never end . Eve the pvp ends as soon as one side loses its ships. you just can run back to the battle. In darkfall on what ive read you respawn after a min from dying and your completely nakid. while you can get back to the battle your gimped to hell vs people with armor, youll die again. in both eve and darkfalls battles have a meaning to it they end. you lose and you lost territory. You dont lose shit in wow.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
I think Guild Wars has the best PvP. The first release was designed for you to learn the basics of your character, build skill and unlock mods through the endgame, then go to the Battle Isles and use your skills in PvP. There are more arguments, even today, about skill balances than any other subject. Their max level is intended as a stepping stone for your character, not the endgame. PvP is multi-tiered, with competitive missions, Random Arenas and Alliance Battles, progressing through Team arenas and Heroes Ascent, to Guild vs Guild fights for rankings. While the game has added more PvE content as it gained popularity, PvP hasn't suffered, sticking to the philosophy of skill>time played. For me, that is more important than being able to farm or buy your way to success in PvP.
Other than the "turd" issue explained so eloquently, the issue I have with EVE is that, if you got into the game less than a year or two ago, you will never be able to achieve the flexibility at the high end that someone playing the game a few years will have. True, you can still become well adept in one or two skill sets, but you can;t switch roles or characters and still be a valuable asset to your team. In GW, I can switch from a Monk to a Necro to a War, depending on the team's need. It allows you to understand the workings of the different professions in the meta, without needing to put weeks or months(or years, in EVE) building a character up. It also keeps the PvP interesting.
A lot of people make a big deal about the huge battles and raids in WAR or WoW. Thing is, this A) requires little individual skill, and
leads to the winner, nine times out of ten, being a numbers game. Whoever has greater numbers and better gear, in most cases, WILL WIN! Play 8 vs 8, with all of them having access to the same skills and mods, and it comes down to the team with the best strategy and synergy winning. In Guild Wars, the only motivation for getting different armors is aesthetic. Other than looks, there is no advantage in paying 150k for a set of armor as opposed to 10k.
The thing I like best about the game is the way the classes are treated. The best Warriors aren't "tanks". In fact, mentioning paladin on the forums will get enough flames to rival the sun. They kill stuff, and kill it well. The trinity is not guaranteed to be the best way to win. A team of Necros can steamroll through some battles, depending on the skill of the players. While Build Wars does sometimes happen, most times the devs will nerf a few skills if a build or builds becomes too over-powered. Few PvP OP builds ever last more than a month.
Finally, no other game has the Mesmer. Never have I been more cursed at or caused more crying than when playing this girl.
GuildWars hands down.
Warhammer hands down for me, I did not have this much fun in a mmorpg since.......I don't know, it's been that long.
Sinister Savant MMORPG Community
Chronicles of Spellborn should be on this poll. I think spellborn has the best combat system that brings a entire new level of game play to PvP.
amen
MMO games played or tested: EQ, DAoC, Archlord, Auto Assault, CoH, CoV, EQ2, EVE, Guild Wars, Hellgate: London, Linneage II, LOTRO, MxO, Planetside, SWG, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WWIIOL, WOW, Age of Conan
Neocron had the best PVP to date.
Neocron WAS Darkfall done right (with the exception of full looting). But one wonders, what is the point to full looting if the loot doesn't make a whole shit a difference when equipped? Just stating as I have never played the game.
To the OP - did you ever think your buddy at work is just a jerk?
Seriously if you like the game you're playing and are having fun tell him to STFU!
No one on this thread or any other has ever agreed on what 'perfect' PvP is!
Darkfall is suppose to be PvP focused, but what does that mean? No PvE? You just wander around killing people randomly? That in theory sounds like it would get boring fairly quickly. I haven't tried it though as I'm waiting for the game kinks to be worked out.
I've never played EvE (same thing I don't want to be a ship!), but have heard it's addictively fun. WoW, AoC, WAR, LoTRO, EQ2, GW and the rest of the MMO's have elements of PvP and some parts are fun in each but none are the - must play for the PvP game of the day!
Personally I've found something in each that was fun and something that I detested, so play what you're comfortable with and enjoy yourself - heck it's your money you should be enjoying your time!
Proud member of Hammerfist Clan Gaming Community.
Currently playing: RIFT, EQ2, WoW, LoTRO
Retired: Warhammer, AoC, EQ
Waiting: SWToR & GW2
Ignore the Zorndorf guy, he just keeps talking until everyone gives up.
Then probably chafes himself to the wotlk box.
I would have to say your poll is very unbalanced,you have games that are very much pvp and other's that are some what pvp,also there are a couple of game's that spring to mind that should have been in the poll.
I think you have taken your own grasp on pvp and made a poll and not a mmo player's grasp on pvp,while polls are maybe nice it is maybe best to start them with the views of others in mind,maybe that is why "other"is doing quite well.
If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/235780/page/8
i didnt do much pvp in the time i spent playing lineage 2 tbh so i cant vote for it. all i did was pve and occassionally got ganked. there is no point pvp'ing in lineage 2 till your 60+ and that takes a long time to get to.
C'mon use your imagination
Ship = your armor, mount and weapons all in one. Add a z-axis to the battlefield and there you go.
(I know it is more complex since you can fly in different classes of ships which make the encounters much more diverse but I see that as an advantage for EVE, tbh.)
PVP in EVE is diverse, challenging and pretty much skill / tactics based. Damn good pvp mmorpg, even though it is in space. (Maybe it was because it was my first mmorpg, but after EVE and a few times in WOW, I have never sat behind my keyboard, trembling my friggin' ass off during a pvp encounter).
Yes, I get it. My point was, I don't want to play a ship, so it's going to be hard to compare something I have absolutey no interest in, to games that actually interest me, no matter how good the PvP is.
Think of it this way. A game has what is a potentially awesome PvP system, but you play it as a turd. It's going to be hard to say it's great compared to a game that may or many not have as awesome of a PvP system, but you don't play as a turd.
You're saying, just forget you're a turd, and concentrate on teh PvP System! I can't. I"m still going to give the edge to the game where I don't play as a turd.
I"d prefer DAoC before any expansions, with updated graphics.
Their original RvR system is the best PvP design for MMORPGs so far, IMO.
You make a game like EVE where I walk around as a person, and never get in a spaceship, then maybe I'll change my mind.
and no one wants to play as a turd in space lmfao.
It depends , but it certainly surpasses everything else on the market at the moment in massively played action.
I think it's got a long way to go before it comes anywhere near EVE, but it's a good start. That aside, since the combat doesn't affect the game world any, WOW numbers are kind of immaterial for this particular poll.
It affects the game world. First owning the Lake Wintergrasp zone opens up a Raid instance to have better PvP gear (even the best in game).
Secondly, every other end game dungeons drop extra loot when owning the open world PvP Zone.
I was talking of Fantasy mmorpg's only of course (both in arena way and in fluid control movement principles).
I didn't say anything on games like EVE or PotBS sea battles.
wow is not a pvp game dummy hence why its not on the list. you are a horrible fanboy.
Firstly, you don't seem to be understanding the fact that Guild Wars PvP is not "massive" because it is balanced. The Hall of Heroes is the most people you'll see in a battle together and for a very good reason. The game is a balancing act and introducing more players in certain matches, for example, will result in some very unwanted results. Healers could outheal damage dealers and make teams impossible to beat, for example.
Secondly, I'm sorry but have you even played Guild Wars? Your greatest argument is that "In WoW you can have more players!" That's not the point and definitely not what PvP is about. It seems like your idea of PvP involves grabbing a group of people and mobbing the other team. Guild Wars works very, very differently. It encourages players to create a build that works with the rest of their team's, and encourages teamwork. You can beat another team without any armor or weapons if you know what you're doing and play your build correctly. You can also have exactly the same build as another player and beat them easily.
Your WoW Arena Competition is...cute...but in Guild Wars you can create maximum level PvP characters with completely free gear and weapons whenever you want. Add to that the fact that not only are there monthly tournaments in which anyone can get involved/rewarded for following, but they can view the matches in real time via observer mode. Apart from that, there is also the $100 000 Guild Wars tournament that is held.
Have you ever watched a high-end Guild Wars PvP battle? Guild Wars combat is BY FAR the most fast-paced there is out there. You have low health and energy with fast regeneration rates for a reason. Many spells and abilities range from insta-cast to 1 second casts, with the most being around 4 seconds for extremely powerful spells. With regards to patches and polish...you clearly weren't there when WoW launched were you? The launch was plagued with problems. Blizzard have managed to sort that out nicely, but Guild Wars had one of the, if not the smoothest MMO launch yet. They release updates on a very regular basis that balance skills, fix bugs (which are so rare it honestly puts other companies to shame - by far the most polished MMO I've played) etc.
And lastly, I find your comparison of WoW to a FPS utterly laughable. I'm a fan of both games but oh goodness, you're really fooling yourself if you think that. If either of the games can be compared to one it's Guild Wars (though I still don't know why you would want to compare it to a totally different genre). Guild Wars allows you to manually dodge arrows and projectiles, body-block the enemy in order to stop them from moving in a particular direction, interrupt your target's actions etc.
Ultimately, I think you're trying to excuse WoW's PvP being a game of numbers, stats and gear with the number of players that can enter battle. All one really needs to do is google a gear/talent build and grind until you can run it, then from there on out you don't really need to do much at all other than trust in your stats doing the job for you. Guild Wars is a game of skill. There really is no arguing it. The worst of trolls simply can't deny the fact. One has to adapt one's skill build to different situations. One can swap and change between builds and secondary professions, as well as attributes whenever one wants to for free (unlike WoW's talent and gear system...which I find to be pathetic). Guild Wars was designed AROUND PvP and the evidence is undeniable. World of Warcraft added PvP as an afterthought.
Guild Wars has GvG, skirmishes, Random Arenas, Team Arenas, Heroe's Ascent, Hero Battles, Alliance Battles, Fort Aspenwood (siege battle), The Jade Quarry, various other level-specific arenas etc. Not to mention holiday-specific arenas such as the Snowball Arena or Rollerbeetle Racing! All of these forms of PvP are very different to each other. Exactly how many of these are in WoW? Yeah...I thought so. World of Warcraft has nowhere near as much diversity. Honestly, if ArenaNet wanted to all they'd need to do is create an arena and up the player limit to something like 40 per side and we'd have a WoW battleground. Oh joy!
6 million people have bought Guild Wars for a reason. For a completely new company with no other games behind its name, that number is excellent.
And lastly, Guild Wars' controls are exactly the same as WoW...what are you going on about? Not only is there WASD movement but also click-to-move should you prefer that. Seriously people...try actually playing a game before mindlessly bashing it as it really results in a loss of credibility on your part.
Your *only* argument thus far is that because WoW has more players it is somehow a better PvP game. LMAO. Ever heard of PvE? The very large majority of my WoW friendbase hardly touch PvP because, quite frankly, they think it sucks. As a PvE game, I find WoW excellent. As a PvP game, it has some serious issues. If you plan on convincing anyone that it's a good PvP game, you're going to have to come up with something other than "we can have more people in a single battle!!!1" and "more people play WoW so tis a better PvP game!!"
have you tried? lvcifer.mybrute.com
its fun! altho its not your typical "mmo" game!
MyBrute = addicting mini online game!
is it really that important to convince others too play your mmorpg that your currently addicted to? lol ive been seeing a lot of that on here lately.. pvp wise...i wouldnt say for everyone any game would be considered best...so many different styles of pvp depending on size and game style.. i played wow for awhile...don't really get into the pvp there..just not for me.. arenas are fun sure for a little bit,, WG was ok...part from the mega server lagggg...but WoW has always had a bit of a grinnddd to it...which i cant stand...thats why i stopped playing.. currently playing WAR..which i do enjoy...i think its hilarious though that everyone is so pissed off about career balance and such... sure there are days where i get owned over and over...but then the tables turn...WAR is totally different style and i wouldnt say takes as much brain power or reasoning on which spell/skill to use at 1.5 seconds in...lol...but thats what i love about it...anyways..theres my thoughts..
100 vs 100 battles on every server every night? Nice!
Multiple times. And with Tanks, destructable walls, collapsable towers and Keep, siege artillery that actually can be driven,
OK I'll admit above 4 Raids against 4 (160/160) is a bit laggy, but at least I can have them whenever I WANT too.
))
Not including Wow as a PvP game is an insult to millions of Wow PvP players.
Including WoW as a PvP game is an insult to anyone that knows what balanced PvP is.
The fact that you say this means that you know what a balanced PvP game is and NOT ... Blizzard with its staff of dozens of game designers.
Good for you. It shows you're a self declared genious.
But I doubt it you know it better than a company who has developped it all and ... have millions of arena data to track anything you would like to add as an insult to the best MMORPG developpers in recent years.
You don't deserve a game as polished as Wow, that's a certainty.
Apparently I do know it better. If you think WoW PvP is balanced then you obviously don't play the game. What, one spec is "arena viable" per class for Arenas? And even with everyone in "the spec", certain classes completely dominate over others? Yeah, that sounds like balance to me.
So now Blizzard is the best MMORPG developers? Hmm. On what basis are we judging them? Polish? Sure, with the time it takes them to actually make new content, it better be polished. But they do make polished games, I'll give them that. Are we going to judge them on creativity? Originality? Complexity? They come pretty close to last on all of those.
Polish does not make a game great. Mechanics are more important than polish. SWG was my favorite game of all time, and it was a buggy mess. I would play that game over WoW any day, as it offered more than a simple gear tredmill.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
what he said
You're lying, plain & simple. And it's funny, cause you're trying to lie to people who actually played the game you're shilling for.
I doubt you even play WoW. But maybe you do, with a helper to assist with your mental disability.
Just drop it and let the adults talk about real PvP games. I'm actually interested in what else is out there.
Lineage 2 is the only real open pvp game .