You seem to have an issue. Let's back up and examine it, shall we?
Pot, meet kettle.
You posted a couple quotes and then made this statement:
There is no way, reading that article, or the FAQ excerpt, that any reasonable or honest person could conclude that PvE wasn't an important factor in the game to them. Hell, based on the FAQ question, "I don't like PvP..." and the response given, it would seem to me that they saw it being equally feasible for both PvP and PvE gameplay.
To which my reply was:
The PVE in Darkfall does, in fact, help you skill up and train for PVP, so the first statement is not untrue, based on the game as it currently stands.
So, here we see that you state a position and I respond to your stated position.
Okay...
Let's first get one thing out of the way that seems to be clouding your perspective...
This thread isn't about what I think about PvE. It's not about what you think about PvE. It's not about any personal "perspective" or "position". It's about an obvious misperception of what DF is designed to be by its fans, in post after post, as proven out by actual statements from Aventurine themselves.
It's about the lack of PvE in the game. A lack of PvE has been called out and acknowledged by many people. And every time it's brought up, that lack of PvE content has been bitterly defended and praised by various fans who quite openly consider any PvE content to be the domain of "kiddie themeparks". The fans aren't denying a lack of PvE. Not even close. Rather, they're outright defending and cheering it on.
That said...
Let's start with the thread subject, shall we?
"DF (lack of) content was not intentional"
That subject is, to anyone who follows these threads and reads the various comments from both sides, referring to how the *fans* of Darkfall insist that the game is not about PvE; that it's a hardcore, FFA sandbox MMO and that PvE content, like quests and such, has no place in it. That it lacks PvE because AV designed it that way. This is, if you will, the fans' "position" on the game.
It has been argued by at least one fan that they don't have more PvE because "they understand the PvP mentality" (something to that effect). Others have argued that AV didn't implement more PvE because they're catering specifically to the PvP and/or sandbox community who, by their own say-so don't need PvE content because they can make their own.
Time and again, when someone mentions the lack of PvE content in DF, the response they get - again, from the fans - is "DF isn't a kiddie themepark. Go back to WoW if you need your hand held" - or other variants of that.
The sum belief being expressed by the fans, time and again, is that Darkfall doesn't have more PvE content *by design*; because Aventurine deliberately and specifically designed it that way.
The point of agreement between fans and nay-sayers is that there's a lack of PvE. The only disagreement is whether it's intentional or not. The nay-sayers say it isn't. The fans say it is.
The subject of this thread is basically saying the fans' claim isn't correct. The lack of PvE in DF is neither intentional, nor by design.
My post, wherein I cite specific passages from AV themselves, clearly supports the subject as they themselves discuss the importance they place on PvE, as being equally important to PvP, and then go on to give specific examples... such as quest content... crafting... mobs with very advanced AI, and so forth.
Thus... I am supporting the OP of this thread in showing that, despite the claims of fans who say otherwise, Aventurine *did* in fact intend there to be more PvE content in the game.... by their own say-so. Not only that, but that someone who doesn't even want to PvP could find plenty to do.
In a nutshell: The fans claim DF wasn't designed for PvE. Aventurine, by their own say-so, clearly states otherwise. Thus the OP's statement is correct.
Now... If you personally don't agree with other fans, and believe that PvE does have a place in the game... fine. Obviously the subject of this thread doesn't pertain to you.
After which, you began in with this whole concept of what my "position" on PvE is.. which, again, is irrelevant, as I'm not discussing personal opinions. I'm discussing what the fans state about the game, versus what AV themself states and the obvious contradiction between the two.
This is why I keep saying I don't have a position on it, and that it's irrelevant. Because, in the context of this thread and my post in particular, it is. My opinion on what constitutes PvE in a MMO has absolutely *zero* relevance to the topic.
I think the disconnect here, is that you're seeking an argument that has no place in this thread.
I understand all this. Perhaps your responses to me where simply misplaced, as I never said anything to the effect that Darkfall was solely meant to be a hardcore PVP game and had no room for PVE players.
On the contrary, I view Darkfall as a sandbox game, where the player decides what it is he wants to do.
Additionally, I do not view Darkfall as having a lack of content. I view it as a developing virtual world, one which has the core game play in place. I also view it as being similar in this respect, though currently in a far less matured state to another game I currently play, EVE Online.
You seem to have an issue. Let's back up and examine it, shall we?
Pot, meet kettle.
You posted a couple quotes and then made this statement:
There is no way, reading that article, or the FAQ excerpt, that any reasonable or honest person could conclude that PvE wasn't an important factor in the game to them. Hell, based on the FAQ question, "I don't like PvP..." and the response given, it would seem to me that they saw it being equally feasible for both PvP and PvE gameplay.
To which my reply was:
The PVE in Darkfall does, in fact, help you skill up and train for PVP, so the first statement is not untrue, based on the game as it currently stands.
So, here we see that you state a position and I respond to your stated position.
Okay...
Let's first get one thing out of the way that seems to be clouding your perspective...
This thread isn't about what I think about PvE. It's not about what you think about PvE. It's not about any personal "perspective" or "position". It's about an obvious misperception of what DF is designed to be by its fans, in post after post, as proven out by actual statements from Aventurine themselves.
It's about the lack of PvE in the game. A lack of PvE has been called out and acknowledged by many people. And every time it's brought up, that lack of PvE content has been bitterly defended and praised by various fans who quite openly consider any PvE content to be the domain of "kiddie themeparks". The fans aren't denying a lack of PvE. Not even close. Rather, they're outright defending and cheering it on.
That said...
Let's start with the thread subject, shall we?
"DF (lack of) content was not intentional"
That subject is, to anyone who follows these threads and reads the various comments from both sides, referring to how the *fans* of Darkfall insist that the game is not about PvE; that it's a hardcore, FFA sandbox MMO and that PvE content, like quests and such, has no place in it. That it lacks PvE because AV designed it that way. This is, if you will, the fans' "position" on the game.
It has been argued by at least one fan that they don't have more PvE because "they understand the PvP mentality" (something to that effect). Others have argued that AV didn't implement more PvE because they're catering specifically to the PvP and/or sandbox community who, by their own say-so don't need PvE content because they can make their own.
Time and again, when someone mentions the lack of PvE content in DF, the response they get - again, from the fans - is "DF isn't a kiddie themepark. Go back to WoW if you need your hand held" - or other variants of that.
The sum belief being expressed by the fans, time and again, is that Darkfall doesn't have more PvE content *by design*; because Aventurine deliberately and specifically designed it that way.
The point of agreement between fans and nay-sayers is that there's a lack of PvE. The only disagreement is whether it's intentional or not. The nay-sayers say it isn't. The fans say it is.
The subject of this thread is basically saying the fans' claim isn't correct. The lack of PvE in DF is neither intentional, nor by design.
My post, wherein I cite specific passages from AV themselves, clearly supports the subject as they themselves discuss the importance they place on PvE, as being equally important to PvP, and then go on to give specific examples... such as quest content... crafting... mobs with very advanced AI, and so forth.
Thus... I am supporting the OP of this thread in showing that, despite the claims of fans who say otherwise, Aventurine *did* in fact intend there to be more PvE content in the game.... by their own say-so. Not only that, but that someone who doesn't even want to PvP could find plenty to do.
In a nutshell: The fans claim DF wasn't designed for PvE. Aventurine, by their own say-so, clearly states otherwise. Thus the OP's statement is correct.
Now... If you personally don't agree with other fans, and believe that PvE does have a place in the game... fine. Obviously the subject of this thread doesn't pertain to you.
After which, you began in with this whole concept of what my "position" on PvE is.. which, again, is irrelevant, as I'm not discussing personal opinions. I'm discussing what the fans state about the game, versus what AV themself states and the obvious contradiction between the two.
This is why I keep saying I don't have a position on it, and that it's irrelevant. Because, in the context of this thread and my post in particular, it is. My opinion on what constitutes PvE in a MMO has absolutely *zero* relevance to the topic.
I think the disconnect here, is that you're seeking an argument that has no place in this thread.
I understand all this. Perhaps your responses to me where simply misplaced, as I never said anything to the effect that Darkfall was solely meant to be a hardcore PVP game and had no room for PVE players.
On the contrary, I view Darkfall as a sandbox game, where the player decides what it is he wants to do.
Additionally, I do not view Darkfall as having a lack of content. I view it as a developing virtual world, one which has the core game play in place. I also view it as being similar in this respect, though currently in a far less matured state to another game I currently play, EVE Online.
Holy crap, let me sit down...
Oh wait I am.
We might actually be at a point of agreement here.
Again... your perspective on the game is fine. AV might very well deliver on everything they say they intend to in time (and boy won't that be a disappointment to the anti-PvE crowd). That has not been what I was arguing :-p
Anyway... as they say in L2 after a PvP battle:
"Good Fight"
And... to answer your question...
I think PvE in a PvP MMO is perfectly fine. I xp'd on mobs, did quests, and so forth in Lineage 2 all the time. I enjoy PvP... but sometimes I like "something different".
So, to me... I think it's great if/when AV fill out their ideas for PvE in DF.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You seem to have an issue. Let's back up and examine it, shall we?
Pot, meet kettle.
You posted a couple quotes and then made this statement:
There is no way, reading that article, or the FAQ excerpt, that any reasonable or honest person could conclude that PvE wasn't an important factor in the game to them. Hell, based on the FAQ question, "I don't like PvP..." and the response given, it would seem to me that they saw it being equally feasible for both PvP and PvE gameplay.
To which my reply was:
The PVE in Darkfall does, in fact, help you skill up and train for PVP, so the first statement is not untrue, based on the game as it currently stands.
So, here we see that you state a position and I respond to your stated position.
Okay...
Let's first get one thing out of the way that seems to be clouding your perspective...
This thread isn't about what I think about PvE. It's not about what you think about PvE. It's not about any personal "perspective" or "position". It's about an obvious misperception of what DF is designed to be by its fans, in post after post, as proven out by actual statements from Aventurine themselves.
It's about the lack of PvE in the game. A lack of PvE has been called out and acknowledged by many people. And every time it's brought up, that lack of PvE content has been bitterly defended and praised by various fans who quite openly consider any PvE content to be the domain of "kiddie themeparks". The fans aren't denying a lack of PvE. Not even close. Rather, they're outright defending and cheering it on.
That said...
Let's start with the thread subject, shall we?
"DF (lack of) content was not intentional"
That subject is, to anyone who follows these threads and reads the various comments from both sides, referring to how the *fans* of Darkfall insist that the game is not about PvE; that it's a hardcore, FFA sandbox MMO and that PvE content, like quests and such, has no place in it. That it lacks PvE because AV designed it that way. This is, if you will, the fans' "position" on the game.
It has been argued by at least one fan that they don't have more PvE because "they understand the PvP mentality" (something to that effect). Others have argued that AV didn't implement more PvE because they're catering specifically to the PvP and/or sandbox community who, by their own say-so don't need PvE content because they can make their own.
Time and again, when someone mentions the lack of PvE content in DF, the response they get - again, from the fans - is "DF isn't a kiddie themepark. Go back to WoW if you need your hand held" - or other variants of that.
The sum belief being expressed by the fans, time and again, is that Darkfall doesn't have more PvE content *by design*; because Aventurine deliberately and specifically designed it that way.
The point of agreement between fans and nay-sayers is that there's a lack of PvE. The only disagreement is whether it's intentional or not. The nay-sayers say it isn't. The fans say it is.
The subject of this thread is basically saying the fans' claim isn't correct. The lack of PvE in DF is neither intentional, nor by design.
My post, wherein I cite specific passages from AV themselves, clearly supports the subject as they themselves discuss the importance they place on PvE, as being equally important to PvP, and then go on to give specific examples... such as quest content... crafting... mobs with very advanced AI, and so forth.
Thus... I am supporting the OP of this thread in showing that, despite the claims of fans who say otherwise, Aventurine *did* in fact intend there to be more PvE content in the game.... by their own say-so. Not only that, but that someone who doesn't even want to PvP could find plenty to do.
In a nutshell: The fans claim DF wasn't designed for PvE. Aventurine, by their own say-so, clearly states otherwise. Thus the OP's statement is correct.
Now... If you personally don't agree with other fans, and believe that PvE does have a place in the game... fine. Obviously the subject of this thread doesn't pertain to you.
After which, you began in with this whole concept of what my "position" on PvE is.. which, again, is irrelevant, as I'm not discussing personal opinions. I'm discussing what the fans state about the game, versus what AV themself states and the obvious contradiction between the two.
This is why I keep saying I don't have a position on it, and that it's irrelevant. Because, in the context of this thread and my post in particular, it is. My opinion on what constitutes PvE in a MMO has absolutely *zero* relevance to the topic.
I think the disconnect here, is that you're seeking an argument that has no place in this thread.
I understand all this. Perhaps your responses to me where simply misplaced, as I never said anything to the effect that Darkfall was solely meant to be a hardcore PVP game and had no room for PVE players.
On the contrary, I view Darkfall as a sandbox game, where the player decides what it is he wants to do.
Additionally, I do not view Darkfall as having a lack of content. I view it as a developing virtual world, one which has the core game play in place. I also view it as being similar in this respect, though currently in a far less matured state to another game I currently play, EVE Online.
Holy crap, let me sit down...
Oh wait I am.
We might actually be at a point of agreement here.
Again... your perspective on the game is fine. AV might very well deliver on everything they say they intend to in time (and boy won't that be a disappointment to the anti-PvE crowd). That has not been what I was arguing :-p
Anyway... as they say in L2 after a PvP battle:
"Good Fight"
LOL, I do not believe I have ever said anything different...
Darkfall is a PvP game without leveling so one may think that we wouldn't pay that much attention to PvE. It's quite the opposite. PvPers have much higher standards for their combat experience, they like to be challenged, they like to have fun, they have to train, and I believe that those needs are fully satisfied in Darkfall's AI system.
Dude.... this quote proves exactly what I was saying: the PVE exists only to fuel the PVP. An untrained monkey could see that. Allow me to emphasise the key parts:
"Darkfall is a PvP game"
and the most key phrase:
"PvPers have much higher standards for their combat experience, they like to be challenged, they like to have fun, they have to train, and I believe that those needs are fully satisfied in Darkfall's AI system"
Note how even the PVE elements of the game are framed in the context of "PVPers"?
if you want to play quotes, i can find a few dozen that say "Darkfall is a PVP game" for you...can you link us a quote where is says "Darkfall is a PVE game"?
wake up and smell the coffee indeed.
Does darkfall have PVE? yes. does it have WOW's level's of (totally pervasive, compulsory) PVE? Hell no. and like i said, you would have to be delusional to think or expect that DF was ever going to even come close to [WOW or WOW clone game] PVE.
wake up and smell the coffee.
I don't like PvP, why should I even consider trying out Darkfall?
If you give it a chance, you'll discover that Darkfall is an extremely well rounded game. For example, there's as much effort going into the quest engine and the crafting process, as there is going into the combat design. Darkfall features the ultimate player based economy, more useful trade skills than any other released MMORPG to date, advanced NPC and monster AI, and a quest engine constantly creating new and challenging content. Furthermore, the game world is huge; you could move to a remote area with your friends and try to create a safe haven for other like-minded players.
That right there proves that DF concept includes PvE as a standalone (separate from PvP) feature. Accoring to that quote, PvE is NOT something to prepare for PvP. Its something to do INSTEAD of PvP. The question is very specific.
so what you are saying about PvE not being an integral (important AND separate from PvP) directly contradicts from that FAQ quote.
I don't like PvP, why should I even consider trying out Darkfall?
If you give it a chance, you'll discover that Darkfall is an extremely well rounded game. For example, there's as much effort going into the quest engine and the crafting process, as there is going into the combat design. Darkfall features the ultimate player based economy, more useful trade skills than any other released MMORPG to date, advanced NPC and monster AI, and a quest engine constantly creating new and challenging content. Furthermore, the game world is huge; you could move to a remote area with your friends and try to create a safe haven for other like-minded players.
That right there proves that DF concept includes PvE as a standalone (separate from PvP) feature. Accoring to that quote, PvE is NOT something to prepare for PvP. Its something to do INSTEAD of PvP. The question is very specific.
so what you are saying about PvE not being an integral (important AND separate from PvP) directly contradicts from that FAQ quote.
Whether or not there will be a significant amount of quest based PVE, is yet to be seen. Currently the quests are very basic. Of course, actually completeing them, especially those not in close proximity to towers, is another matter. In this respect, Darkfall has some of the hardest quests I have ever done, lol.
I said this earlier, but I will say it again. In order to do most of the things one wishes to do, besides simple PKing, one must interact with PVE. Whether this is simply gathering, or finding a specific type of mob that drops a needed material, it is an intregal part of the game. Anyone that says differently is mistaken.
All this being said, this does not mean that it is in anyway "separate from PVP", as everything in this game is PVP, in one way or another, but the same is almost true the other way around.
Wow... after reading about 7 pages on this topic... I came forth with a discovery!!!...
now... everyone start using their imagnations... (if you got one)... imagine a ugly little lonely boy living on the streets... no one loves him... everyone looks at him with disgust and pity...
then comes a man... a less than average man... who happens to be very stupid in life... he still believes the world is flat... he still thinks that Apollo pulls the the sun into the sky with his chariot every morning...
and this man... goes up to this ugly little lonely boy... gives him some food... and provides him a new home to live in... a bed... a chair... and a window in the room... thats it... the ugly little lonely boy now lives in a house in a room with a bed / chair / window...
now... this is less than average man is very stupid... low IQ... BUT... do you think ugly little lonely boy will see it?... i doubt it... this ugly little lonely boy is going to WORSHIP this man... no matter how stupid or stubborn this man is... this ugly little lonely boy will listen and believe everything this man tells him...
NOW... what I have discovered is... ALL DARKFALL FANBOIZ ARE... this ugly little lonely boy...
you see... the population of the "sandbox loving fanboiz" (who happens to be gamers) is very small... I mean out of the overall population of gamers around the world... (includes FPS / RTS / Racing / Adventure / RPG / Simulations)... the "sandbox loving fanboiz" are only a tiny mini wini portion of the world of gamers... and here is the thing... ALMOST all game companies out there DOESN'T GIVE A F**K about them... because they won't help any of the companies make money... it is such a tiny mini wini amount of people... so ya... the world doesn't care for Darkfall fanboiz... but FINALLY... A SINGLE COMPANY IN THIS ENTIRE WORTHLESS PATHETIC WORLD MAKES ONE SINGLE GAME FOR THESE UGLY LITTLE LONELY SANDBOX LOVING FANBOIZ...
and so... this is why all darkfall fanboiz can't see reasoning... therefore... darkfall fanboiz are the "ugly little lonely boy"...
I just wish the fanboys would stop confusing "Sandbox" with "Empty". One is good, the other is a lazy, half assed attempt at a game.
Isn't one of the most popular sandbox style games GTA? Sure you can do whatever you like, but you're tripping over actual content everytime you turn around in those games.
Yeah I played DF for a while, wasn't my cup of tea but could have potential. However anyone that even attempts to gloss over the vast amount of missing features and content is simply deluded.
funny, people say EVE is empty and boring too; others (including me) say it's full of content.
Darkfall is the same. There is tons of content; it just depends on what *you* define as content.
Case in point: I think WOW has very little content - you can either: do mindnumbing copy'n'paste quests, re-run copy'n'paste instances, or re-run one of a small number of BGs/arenas. sure there are thing to *do*, but none of it *appeals* to me. thus, to me, WOW has little content.
funny, people say EVE is empty and boring too; others (including me) say it's full of content.
Darkfall is the same. There is tons of content; it just depends on what *you* define as content.
Case in point: I think WOW has very little content - you can either: do mindnumbing copy'n'paste quests, re-run copy'n'paste instances, or re-run one of a small number of BGs/arenas. sure there are thing to *do*, but none of it *appeals* to me. thus, to me, WOW has little content.
Right. But, as it is with all the opinions, in order to come to something even close enough to comparison, we must pick an average to compare with. In that perspective, I would say WoW or EQ2 would be the average bar to compare PvE to. So when DF dev claims that PvE is separate and independent from PvP feature of the game, one would expect it to be close to the level of that average PvE. And when the fall short, that generates attention. It seems that most people consider DF to have poor PvE, so the statement from the developers seems to be misinformation. Just like Funcom misinformed everyone when they promised DX10 at the release.
So this discussion is not about whether you consider PvE to be good enough or someone else considering it to be bad enough. You cant compare opinions of 2 different people. This is about comparing to something average.
WoW, EQ2 and other games with heavy questing and PvE raised the average bar since EQ1 days. People expect more then just several generic quests.
Oh i see the trolls now bullying another fan of these game. Moderators can we please have a "DarkFall Forum" for the people who play the game ? Put the tards on there own forum please, call it "DarkFall trolls" or something . The daily insults on personally level on any intrested fan of the game is beyond endurance. MMORPG.com DO SOMETHING FOR THE GAME YOU HAVE LISTED HERE ! DO SOMETHING FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE INTRESTED IN IT ! IT HAD GIVEN YOU THE MOST HITS FOR DAMN OVER A YEAR DON'T TREAT IT LIKE SHIT !
imho I think they are defending it so strongly just because it is nothing like WoW... and to many people thats enough... i have yet to be able to play the game yet so my opinion doesn't really matter but my hopes are that other ''sandbox'' games will be able to learn from darkfalls highpoints and lowpoints
I think that is an insightful observation. However, I dont think that players who enjoy this game are all 'deluded'
Some people actualy like Darkfall even with its flaws. Yet we berate them for it as if we were scolding a small child. NOt everyone is a 'Fanboi', they are just players.
Basically this is true. If you create a game and hype it as hardcore, sandbox, make it FFA pvp with full loot and you will find 10,000 who will play it. Out of 100 million people playing online games now, if you create the 'fight' between trolls and fanboys, it is easy to find 10,000 people who will fight for your game after launch just because of their pre-launch hope... ie ego.
Your comment about players not all being deluded is spot on. The problem is 'for how long'. Almost every mmorpg is fun for the first few weeks... what will kill darkfall is what is killing warhammer... very soon even the most hardcore pvpers will say " is this it? are we just going to run around naked month after month fighting the same towns/people". There just are not enough gameplay and features in Darkfall to make it a real MMORPG... while people probably really do find it fun now.. will they really think it's fun after they've recaptured the same town 50 times in the next month?
Sadly, Counter-Strike wishes to argue about the "fun for a few weeks" The maps are all the same repeated over and over again.. and there are thousands upon thousans of people who play Counter-Strike..
Yeah, except Counter-strike doesn't have a monthly fee. Darkfall is like a half-assed version of a FPS, but it charges a monthly fee and has more hacks and exploits.
Ding ding ding ding.. We Have a winner!!!!!!!
When in an FPS do you build your own city to defend? (Half assed feature in the game, but nontheless a feature), and when in an FPS did you gain levels and change your gear? When in an FPS did you use dipolmacy? When in an FPS did you accually "own" territory that wasn't instanced in lobbies? When in an FPS do you interact with more than 32 people at a time? GG its very much like Counter-Strike with the exception of its major features.
Actually, Joint Ops (best online FPS to date) had servers that were able to support up to 164 players at a time. The BF series has player levels (termed "ranks") that increase with gaming experience. They also unlock gear changes which you can apply to your characters.
Maybe not as detailed or specific as you can find in an MMORPG, these features do exist in online FPSes.
As for diplomacy and owned territory, PlanetSide might offer some of that, but my experience with that game is rather limited.
Speaking of which, I can't wait for Huxley. Now that will be REAL twitched based combat.
funny, people say EVE is empty and boring too; others (including me) say it's full of content.
Darkfall is the same. There is tons of content; it just depends on what *you* define as content.
Case in point: I think WOW has very little content - you can either: do mindnumbing copy'n'paste quests, re-run copy'n'paste instances, or re-run one of a small number of BGs/arenas. sure there are thing to *do*, but none of it *appeals* to me. thus, to me, WOW has little content.
Content can be quantified and measured, it is not an opinion like you seem to think. WoW has tons and tons of content, just because you do not like what the content is does not mean it does not exist.
DF on the other hand does not have a tiny fraction of the content WoW or EQ2 have in terms of PvE. Delude yourself all you want, doesn't change the facts that have been presented MANY times to you.
Content can be quantified and measured, it is not an opinion like you seem to think. WoW has tons and tons of content, just because you do not like what the content is does not mean it does not exist.
This.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Content can be quantified and measured, it is not an opinion like you seem to think. WoW has tons and tons of content, just because you do not like what the content is does not mean it does not exist.
This.
if "This" is true that it applies for DarkFall too.
DarkFall has tons of content, instead of killing a mob for the loot you kill a player , pleanty of content is running around and you go hunt it and it fights better back then a NPC mob, instaed of intstance raids you do clan city raids and enemy racial raids, there is tons of DF content just because OP do not like what the content is does not mean it does not exist and he is elligible to start troll topics.
People need to accept and respect the tons of content of Darkfall and go find theselves a hobby or something instead of sitting in forums of games they do not like.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
The biggest thing Aventurine could do to improve their PvE is to actually implement the Features they said would be in the game.
How about Mobs attacking player cities? That would go a long ways towards improving PvE. Some marauding bands of pirates landing on the beaches and making an attack on cities with harbors would be very cool.
How about migrating Mobs? Players having to "explore" to "re-find" their favorite Mobs would help to keep things fresh.
How about Weather? Having to fight through a blinding snow-storm, or a flooded river-bed, or a thick pea-soup fog... all those would spice up a rather dull PvE environment.
How about populating Dungeons/NPC cities with Mobs? There are quite a few posts even on the official forums with screenshots of some interesting looking places that are completely devoid of life. Entire castles... empty. Entire dungeons... empty. Entire NPC cities... empty. No matter how long a person waits... nothing spawns. That is depressing.
Anyway... The PvE in DarkFall is not going to impress very many gamers. The PvP will be what determines if a player likes DarkFall or not. Unfortunately, there are a number of issues even with the PvP that will need to be fixed soon to prevent even more players leaving. Here is an example of some of those issues as expressed by leaders of some of the Bigger Alliances in DarkFall. - Exploits/Cheating/Hacks
- Ordering/Buying of the game
- Missing Advertised Features
- Lack of Working City Siege Features
- The Grind
- Macroing
- No Doors/Gates for Cities
- Lack of meaninful/varied Political Options
- Poor Design of Cities
- Non-optimized Server for Massive Siege Warfare
I have a hard time believing any game developer company will revamp their games after the release. Sounds awesome, but say weather for example, I believe they just abandoned the idea during development (maybe it was a resource hog?), it's a small chance we'll be seeing climate changes in Darkfall gameplay. Could also apply to other features. Call me a pessimist, but you'll hardly see companies doing major improvements in their games, not counting expansions of course.
Originally posted by Routver I have a hard time believing any game developer company will revamp their games after the release. Sounds awesome, but say weather for example, I believe they just abandoned the idea during development (maybe it was a resource hog?), it's a small chance we'll be seeing climate changes in Darkfall gameplay. Could also apply to other features. Call me a pessimist, but you'll hardly see companies doing major improvements in their games, not counting expansions of course.
Weather was partially up, for a short period, during beta. I believe that the intention is, still, to put it in.
Migrating mobs, additional mob populations, etc, we'll have to wait and see.
funny, people say EVE is empty and boring too; others (including me) say it's full of content.
Darkfall is the same. There is tons of content; it just depends on what *you* define as content.
Case in point: I think WOW has very little content - you can either: do mindnumbing copy'n'paste quests, re-run copy'n'paste instances, or re-run one of a small number of BGs/arenas. sure there are thing to *do*, but none of it *appeals* to me. thus, to me, WOW has little content.
Content can be quantified and measured, it is not an opinion like you seem to think. WoW has tons and tons of content, just because you do not like what the content is does not mean it does not exist.
DF on the other hand does not have a tiny fraction of the content WoW or EQ2 have in terms of PvE. Delude yourself all you want, doesn't change the facts that have been presented MANY times to you.
...and actual players create FAR more content than Blizzard developers ever could. WOW has tons of SCRIPTED quest and boss fight content and tons of ways to make you grind for miniscule rewards. Darkfall has tons of player-created content.
the only reason you would not "get" Darkfall's content is if you're not into PVP and you'd rather fight dumbed-down AI.
i'm really getting tird of having to say it: if you want to fight stupid AI, scripted bosses and grind out repetitive quests, then get a fucking clue and GTFO of Darkfall. you will *never* convince us that PVE is better than PVP.
stop comparing DF with counterstrike, or fps' in general, its definately an mmo, and has enough features of an mmo to be called one (unlike, say, Guild Wars), for one, unlike CS, the world is persistent...
Anyway, agree with the OP, the devs ran out of money and just put the framework of the game in, with enough of the content that interested people to justify the "completed" title. This is what nearly every mmo does, no one delivers on HALF of their promises and they put it off for later. But how DF with other mmo's is that other mmo's devs have common sense; some of the features in game were put in the worst way possible, and patches create as many problems as they fix.
...and actual players create FAR more content than Blizzard developers ever could. WOW has tons of SCRIPTED quest and boss fight content and tons of ways to make you grind for miniscule rewards. Darkfall has tons of player-created content.
Why is it that only fanboys keep bringing up WoW in these threads? What's your point since this thread doesn't have anything to do with any PVE vs PVP argument to begin with?
the only reason you would not "get" Darkfall's content is if you're not into PVP and you'd rather fight dumbed-down AI.
Darkfall fanboys apparently need to retake English 101. "Getting" PVP has nothing to do with this thread. Nice try at redirection, though. Darkfall fanboys have gotten very good at that.
i'm really getting tird of having to say it: if you want to fight stupid AI, scripted bosses and grind out repetitive quests, then get a fucking clue and GTFO of Darkfall. you will *never* convince us that PVE is better than PVP.
This thread is not about people's interest in PVE or PVP, so take it to another thread. Fanboys like you keep saying PVE was never an intentional component of Darkfall. Several intelligent posters have corrected you, with quotes directly from the Darkfall website. If you can't see the forest for the trees I think nobody can help you at this point.
Originally posted by Katrar This thread is not about people's interest in PVE or PVP, so take it to another thread. Fanboys like you keep saying PVE was never an intentional component of Darkfall. Several intelligent posters have corrected you, with quotes directly from the Darkfall website. If you can't see the forest for the trees I think nobody can help you at this point.
My responses
And they would be wrong.
PVE is an intregal component of Darkfall and, as a matter of fact, is what many players spend the majority of their time, in game, actually doing.
This thread seems to be populated by the majority of people who don't play Darkfall and don't like the idea of it. So?
Don't play it
The game is full of people who do play and do like it. Enough people that there isnt room for more at the moment. Demand of this game easily outstrips supply, so It is not going to fail.
What most of you need to do is get used to the fact that other people have differing opinions and likes/dislikes to you.
I really dont understand how humans can trash people who think differently to them.
1) I did play darkfall
2) I like the idea of it
3) Darkfall has been a failure, worst MMO launch in history...
4) I don't play it, I got a refund from that shitty company... THANK GOD
5) "DFO caters to the people who like what it has. You don't, thats fine, forget it exists and play something else."
KINDA HARD TO DO WHEN THEY LIED TO THEIR CUSTOMERS ABOUT CONTENT THAT WAS NEVER ACTUALLY IN GAME! THATS CALLED FALSE ADVERTISING!! Well fanbois would never understand...
Originally posted by prow 1) I did play darkfall 2) I like the idea of it 3) Darkfall has been a failure, worst MMO launch in history... 4) I don't play it, I got a refund from that shitty company... THANK GOD 5) "DFO caters to the people who like what it has. You don't, thats fine, forget it exists and play something else." KINDA HARD TO DO WHEN THEY LIED TO THEIR CUSTOMERS ABOUT CONTENT THAT WAS NEVER ACTUALLY IN GAME! THATS CALLED FALSE ADVERTISING!! Well fanbois would never understand... 6) DFO = FAIL
Who cares about what was advertised or what wasnt? The entire point to advertising is to sell a product noone would buy, be it a MMORPG or shampoo. Thats what living in our society should teach you. You do realise that the women on the adverts for shampoo are wearing wigs of synthetic hair don't you?
What we have left is the game, not that which was advertised, but that which was released. So instead of argueing about osme virtual idea of a game, talk about what is really there.
Instead of getting on with your life and putting a bad experiance behind you, you attack those who enjoy what you dont?
Comments
You seem to have an issue. Let's back up and examine it, shall we?
Pot, meet kettle.
You posted a couple quotes and then made this statement:
There is no way, reading that article, or the FAQ excerpt, that any reasonable or honest person could conclude that PvE wasn't an important factor in the game to them. Hell, based on the FAQ question, "I don't like PvP..." and the response given, it would seem to me that they saw it being equally feasible for both PvP and PvE gameplay.
To which my reply was:
The PVE in Darkfall does, in fact, help you skill up and train for PVP, so the first statement is not untrue, based on the game as it currently stands.
So, here we see that you state a position and I respond to your stated position.
Okay...
Let's first get one thing out of the way that seems to be clouding your perspective...
This thread isn't about what I think about PvE. It's not about what you think about PvE. It's not about any personal "perspective" or "position". It's about an obvious misperception of what DF is designed to be by its fans, in post after post, as proven out by actual statements from Aventurine themselves.
It's about the lack of PvE in the game. A lack of PvE has been called out and acknowledged by many people. And every time it's brought up, that lack of PvE content has been bitterly defended and praised by various fans who quite openly consider any PvE content to be the domain of "kiddie themeparks". The fans aren't denying a lack of PvE. Not even close. Rather, they're outright defending and cheering it on.
That said...
Let's start with the thread subject, shall we?
"DF (lack of) content was not intentional"
That subject is, to anyone who follows these threads and reads the various comments from both sides, referring to how the *fans* of Darkfall insist that the game is not about PvE; that it's a hardcore, FFA sandbox MMO and that PvE content, like quests and such, has no place in it. That it lacks PvE because AV designed it that way. This is, if you will, the fans' "position" on the game.
It has been argued by at least one fan that they don't have more PvE because "they understand the PvP mentality" (something to that effect). Others have argued that AV didn't implement more PvE because they're catering specifically to the PvP and/or sandbox community who, by their own say-so don't need PvE content because they can make their own.
Time and again, when someone mentions the lack of PvE content in DF, the response they get - again, from the fans - is "DF isn't a kiddie themepark. Go back to WoW if you need your hand held" - or other variants of that.
The sum belief being expressed by the fans, time and again, is that Darkfall doesn't have more PvE content *by design*; because Aventurine deliberately and specifically designed it that way.
The point of agreement between fans and nay-sayers is that there's a lack of PvE. The only disagreement is whether it's intentional or not. The nay-sayers say it isn't. The fans say it is.
The subject of this thread is basically saying the fans' claim isn't correct. The lack of PvE in DF is neither intentional, nor by design.
My post, wherein I cite specific passages from AV themselves, clearly supports the subject as they themselves discuss the importance they place on PvE, as being equally important to PvP, and then go on to give specific examples... such as quest content... crafting... mobs with very advanced AI, and so forth.
Thus... I am supporting the OP of this thread in showing that, despite the claims of fans who say otherwise, Aventurine *did* in fact intend there to be more PvE content in the game.... by their own say-so. Not only that, but that someone who doesn't even want to PvP could find plenty to do.
In a nutshell: The fans claim DF wasn't designed for PvE. Aventurine, by their own say-so, clearly states otherwise. Thus the OP's statement is correct.
Now... If you personally don't agree with other fans, and believe that PvE does have a place in the game... fine. Obviously the subject of this thread doesn't pertain to you.
After which, you began in with this whole concept of what my "position" on PvE is.. which, again, is irrelevant, as I'm not discussing personal opinions. I'm discussing what the fans state about the game, versus what AV themself states and the obvious contradiction between the two.
This is why I keep saying I don't have a position on it, and that it's irrelevant. Because, in the context of this thread and my post in particular, it is. My opinion on what constitutes PvE in a MMO has absolutely *zero* relevance to the topic.
I think the disconnect here, is that you're seeking an argument that has no place in this thread.
I understand all this. Perhaps your responses to me where simply misplaced, as I never said anything to the effect that Darkfall was solely meant to be a hardcore PVP game and had no room for PVE players.
On the contrary, I view Darkfall as a sandbox game, where the player decides what it is he wants to do.
Additionally, I do not view Darkfall as having a lack of content. I view it as a developing virtual world, one which has the core game play in place. I also view it as being similar in this respect, though currently in a far less matured state to another game I currently play, EVE Online.
You seem to have an issue. Let's back up and examine it, shall we?
Pot, meet kettle.
You posted a couple quotes and then made this statement:
There is no way, reading that article, or the FAQ excerpt, that any reasonable or honest person could conclude that PvE wasn't an important factor in the game to them. Hell, based on the FAQ question, "I don't like PvP..." and the response given, it would seem to me that they saw it being equally feasible for both PvP and PvE gameplay.
To which my reply was:
The PVE in Darkfall does, in fact, help you skill up and train for PVP, so the first statement is not untrue, based on the game as it currently stands.
So, here we see that you state a position and I respond to your stated position.
Okay...
Let's first get one thing out of the way that seems to be clouding your perspective...
This thread isn't about what I think about PvE. It's not about what you think about PvE. It's not about any personal "perspective" or "position". It's about an obvious misperception of what DF is designed to be by its fans, in post after post, as proven out by actual statements from Aventurine themselves.
It's about the lack of PvE in the game. A lack of PvE has been called out and acknowledged by many people. And every time it's brought up, that lack of PvE content has been bitterly defended and praised by various fans who quite openly consider any PvE content to be the domain of "kiddie themeparks". The fans aren't denying a lack of PvE. Not even close. Rather, they're outright defending and cheering it on.
That said...
Let's start with the thread subject, shall we?
"DF (lack of) content was not intentional"
That subject is, to anyone who follows these threads and reads the various comments from both sides, referring to how the *fans* of Darkfall insist that the game is not about PvE; that it's a hardcore, FFA sandbox MMO and that PvE content, like quests and such, has no place in it. That it lacks PvE because AV designed it that way. This is, if you will, the fans' "position" on the game.
It has been argued by at least one fan that they don't have more PvE because "they understand the PvP mentality" (something to that effect). Others have argued that AV didn't implement more PvE because they're catering specifically to the PvP and/or sandbox community who, by their own say-so don't need PvE content because they can make their own.
Time and again, when someone mentions the lack of PvE content in DF, the response they get - again, from the fans - is "DF isn't a kiddie themepark. Go back to WoW if you need your hand held" - or other variants of that.
The sum belief being expressed by the fans, time and again, is that Darkfall doesn't have more PvE content *by design*; because Aventurine deliberately and specifically designed it that way.
The point of agreement between fans and nay-sayers is that there's a lack of PvE. The only disagreement is whether it's intentional or not. The nay-sayers say it isn't. The fans say it is.
The subject of this thread is basically saying the fans' claim isn't correct. The lack of PvE in DF is neither intentional, nor by design.
My post, wherein I cite specific passages from AV themselves, clearly supports the subject as they themselves discuss the importance they place on PvE, as being equally important to PvP, and then go on to give specific examples... such as quest content... crafting... mobs with very advanced AI, and so forth.
Thus... I am supporting the OP of this thread in showing that, despite the claims of fans who say otherwise, Aventurine *did* in fact intend there to be more PvE content in the game.... by their own say-so. Not only that, but that someone who doesn't even want to PvP could find plenty to do.
In a nutshell: The fans claim DF wasn't designed for PvE. Aventurine, by their own say-so, clearly states otherwise. Thus the OP's statement is correct.
Now... If you personally don't agree with other fans, and believe that PvE does have a place in the game... fine. Obviously the subject of this thread doesn't pertain to you.
After which, you began in with this whole concept of what my "position" on PvE is.. which, again, is irrelevant, as I'm not discussing personal opinions. I'm discussing what the fans state about the game, versus what AV themself states and the obvious contradiction between the two.
This is why I keep saying I don't have a position on it, and that it's irrelevant. Because, in the context of this thread and my post in particular, it is. My opinion on what constitutes PvE in a MMO has absolutely *zero* relevance to the topic.
I think the disconnect here, is that you're seeking an argument that has no place in this thread.
I understand all this. Perhaps your responses to me where simply misplaced, as I never said anything to the effect that Darkfall was solely meant to be a hardcore PVP game and had no room for PVE players.
On the contrary, I view Darkfall as a sandbox game, where the player decides what it is he wants to do.
Additionally, I do not view Darkfall as having a lack of content. I view it as a developing virtual world, one which has the core game play in place. I also view it as being similar in this respect, though currently in a far less matured state to another game I currently play, EVE Online.
Holy crap, let me sit down...
Oh wait I am.
We might actually be at a point of agreement here.
Again... your perspective on the game is fine. AV might very well deliver on everything they say they intend to in time (and boy won't that be a disappointment to the anti-PvE crowd). That has not been what I was arguing :-p
Anyway... as they say in L2 after a PvP battle:
"Good Fight"
And... to answer your question...
I think PvE in a PvP MMO is perfectly fine. I xp'd on mobs, did quests, and so forth in Lineage 2 all the time. I enjoy PvP... but sometimes I like "something different".
So, to me... I think it's great if/when AV fill out their ideas for PvE in DF.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You seem to have an issue. Let's back up and examine it, shall we?
Pot, meet kettle.
You posted a couple quotes and then made this statement:
There is no way, reading that article, or the FAQ excerpt, that any reasonable or honest person could conclude that PvE wasn't an important factor in the game to them. Hell, based on the FAQ question, "I don't like PvP..." and the response given, it would seem to me that they saw it being equally feasible for both PvP and PvE gameplay.
To which my reply was:
The PVE in Darkfall does, in fact, help you skill up and train for PVP, so the first statement is not untrue, based on the game as it currently stands.
So, here we see that you state a position and I respond to your stated position.
Okay...
Let's first get one thing out of the way that seems to be clouding your perspective...
This thread isn't about what I think about PvE. It's not about what you think about PvE. It's not about any personal "perspective" or "position". It's about an obvious misperception of what DF is designed to be by its fans, in post after post, as proven out by actual statements from Aventurine themselves.
It's about the lack of PvE in the game. A lack of PvE has been called out and acknowledged by many people. And every time it's brought up, that lack of PvE content has been bitterly defended and praised by various fans who quite openly consider any PvE content to be the domain of "kiddie themeparks". The fans aren't denying a lack of PvE. Not even close. Rather, they're outright defending and cheering it on.
That said...
Let's start with the thread subject, shall we?
"DF (lack of) content was not intentional"
That subject is, to anyone who follows these threads and reads the various comments from both sides, referring to how the *fans* of Darkfall insist that the game is not about PvE; that it's a hardcore, FFA sandbox MMO and that PvE content, like quests and such, has no place in it. That it lacks PvE because AV designed it that way. This is, if you will, the fans' "position" on the game.
It has been argued by at least one fan that they don't have more PvE because "they understand the PvP mentality" (something to that effect). Others have argued that AV didn't implement more PvE because they're catering specifically to the PvP and/or sandbox community who, by their own say-so don't need PvE content because they can make their own.
Time and again, when someone mentions the lack of PvE content in DF, the response they get - again, from the fans - is "DF isn't a kiddie themepark. Go back to WoW if you need your hand held" - or other variants of that.
The sum belief being expressed by the fans, time and again, is that Darkfall doesn't have more PvE content *by design*; because Aventurine deliberately and specifically designed it that way.
The point of agreement between fans and nay-sayers is that there's a lack of PvE. The only disagreement is whether it's intentional or not. The nay-sayers say it isn't. The fans say it is.
The subject of this thread is basically saying the fans' claim isn't correct. The lack of PvE in DF is neither intentional, nor by design.
My post, wherein I cite specific passages from AV themselves, clearly supports the subject as they themselves discuss the importance they place on PvE, as being equally important to PvP, and then go on to give specific examples... such as quest content... crafting... mobs with very advanced AI, and so forth.
Thus... I am supporting the OP of this thread in showing that, despite the claims of fans who say otherwise, Aventurine *did* in fact intend there to be more PvE content in the game.... by their own say-so. Not only that, but that someone who doesn't even want to PvP could find plenty to do.
In a nutshell: The fans claim DF wasn't designed for PvE. Aventurine, by their own say-so, clearly states otherwise. Thus the OP's statement is correct.
Now... If you personally don't agree with other fans, and believe that PvE does have a place in the game... fine. Obviously the subject of this thread doesn't pertain to you.
After which, you began in with this whole concept of what my "position" on PvE is.. which, again, is irrelevant, as I'm not discussing personal opinions. I'm discussing what the fans state about the game, versus what AV themself states and the obvious contradiction between the two.
This is why I keep saying I don't have a position on it, and that it's irrelevant. Because, in the context of this thread and my post in particular, it is. My opinion on what constitutes PvE in a MMO has absolutely *zero* relevance to the topic.
I think the disconnect here, is that you're seeking an argument that has no place in this thread.
I understand all this. Perhaps your responses to me where simply misplaced, as I never said anything to the effect that Darkfall was solely meant to be a hardcore PVP game and had no room for PVE players.
On the contrary, I view Darkfall as a sandbox game, where the player decides what it is he wants to do.
Additionally, I do not view Darkfall as having a lack of content. I view it as a developing virtual world, one which has the core game play in place. I also view it as being similar in this respect, though currently in a far less matured state to another game I currently play, EVE Online.
Holy crap, let me sit down...
Oh wait I am.
We might actually be at a point of agreement here.
Again... your perspective on the game is fine. AV might very well deliver on everything they say they intend to in time (and boy won't that be a disappointment to the anti-PvE crowd). That has not been what I was arguing :-p
Anyway... as they say in L2 after a PvP battle:
"Good Fight"
LOL, I do not believe I have ever said anything different...
Dude.... this quote proves exactly what I was saying: the PVE exists only to fuel the PVP. An untrained monkey could see that. Allow me to emphasise the key parts:
"Darkfall is a PvP game"
and the most key phrase:
"PvPers have much higher standards for their combat experience, they like to be challenged, they like to have fun, they have to train, and I believe that those needs are fully satisfied in Darkfall's AI system"
Note how even the PVE elements of the game are framed in the context of "PVPers"?
if you want to play quotes, i can find a few dozen that say "Darkfall is a PVP game" for you...can you link us a quote where is says "Darkfall is a PVE game"?
wake up and smell the coffee indeed.
Does darkfall have PVE? yes. does it have WOW's level's of (totally pervasive, compulsory) PVE? Hell no. and like i said, you would have to be delusional to think or expect that DF was ever going to even come close to [WOW or WOW clone game] PVE.
wake up and smell the coffee.
I don't like PvP, why should I even consider trying out Darkfall?
If you give it a chance, you'll discover that Darkfall is an extremely well rounded game. For example, there's as much effort going into the quest engine and the crafting process, as there is going into the combat design. Darkfall features the ultimate player based economy, more useful trade skills than any other released MMORPG to date, advanced NPC and monster AI, and a quest engine constantly creating new and challenging content. Furthermore, the game world is huge; you could move to a remote area with your friends and try to create a safe haven for other like-minded players.
That right there proves that DF concept includes PvE as a standalone (separate from PvP) feature. Accoring to that quote, PvE is NOT something to prepare for PvP. Its something to do INSTEAD of PvP. The question is very specific.
so what you are saying about PvE not being an integral (important AND separate from PvP) directly contradicts from that FAQ quote.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
I don't like PvP, why should I even consider trying out Darkfall?
If you give it a chance, you'll discover that Darkfall is an extremely well rounded game. For example, there's as much effort going into the quest engine and the crafting process, as there is going into the combat design. Darkfall features the ultimate player based economy, more useful trade skills than any other released MMORPG to date, advanced NPC and monster AI, and a quest engine constantly creating new and challenging content. Furthermore, the game world is huge; you could move to a remote area with your friends and try to create a safe haven for other like-minded players.
That right there proves that DF concept includes PvE as a standalone (separate from PvP) feature. Accoring to that quote, PvE is NOT something to prepare for PvP. Its something to do INSTEAD of PvP. The question is very specific.
so what you are saying about PvE not being an integral (important AND separate from PvP) directly contradicts from that FAQ quote.
Whether or not there will be a significant amount of quest based PVE, is yet to be seen. Currently the quests are very basic. Of course, actually completeing them, especially those not in close proximity to towers, is another matter. In this respect, Darkfall has some of the hardest quests I have ever done, lol.
I said this earlier, but I will say it again. In order to do most of the things one wishes to do, besides simple PKing, one must interact with PVE. Whether this is simply gathering, or finding a specific type of mob that drops a needed material, it is an intregal part of the game. Anyone that says differently is mistaken.
All this being said, this does not mean that it is in anyway "separate from PVP", as everything in this game is PVP, in one way or another, but the same is almost true the other way around.
Wow... after reading about 7 pages on this topic... I came forth with a discovery!!!...
now... everyone start using their imagnations... (if you got one)... imagine a ugly little lonely boy living on the streets... no one loves him... everyone looks at him with disgust and pity...
then comes a man... a less than average man... who happens to be very stupid in life... he still believes the world is flat... he still thinks that Apollo pulls the the sun into the sky with his chariot every morning...
and this man... goes up to this ugly little lonely boy... gives him some food... and provides him a new home to live in... a bed... a chair... and a window in the room... thats it... the ugly little lonely boy now lives in a house in a room with a bed / chair / window...
now... this is less than average man is very stupid... low IQ... BUT... do you think ugly little lonely boy will see it?... i doubt it... this ugly little lonely boy is going to WORSHIP this man... no matter how stupid or stubborn this man is... this ugly little lonely boy will listen and believe everything this man tells him...
NOW... what I have discovered is... ALL DARKFALL FANBOIZ ARE... this ugly little lonely boy...
you see... the population of the "sandbox loving fanboiz" (who happens to be gamers) is very small... I mean out of the overall population of gamers around the world... (includes FPS / RTS / Racing / Adventure / RPG / Simulations)... the "sandbox loving fanboiz" are only a tiny mini wini portion of the world of gamers... and here is the thing... ALMOST all game companies out there DOESN'T GIVE A F**K about them... because they won't help any of the companies make money... it is such a tiny mini wini amount of people... so ya... the world doesn't care for Darkfall fanboiz... but FINALLY... A SINGLE COMPANY IN THIS ENTIRE WORTHLESS PATHETIC WORLD MAKES ONE SINGLE GAME FOR THESE UGLY LITTLE LONELY SANDBOX LOVING FANBOIZ...
and so... this is why all darkfall fanboiz can't see reasoning... therefore... darkfall fanboiz are the "ugly little lonely boy"...
I just wish the fanboys would stop confusing "Sandbox" with "Empty". One is good, the other is a lazy, half assed attempt at a game.
Isn't one of the most popular sandbox style games GTA? Sure you can do whatever you like, but you're tripping over actual content everytime you turn around in those games.
Yeah I played DF for a while, wasn't my cup of tea but could have potential. However anyone that even attempts to gloss over the vast amount of missing features and content is simply deluded.
funny, people say EVE is empty and boring too; others (including me) say it's full of content.
Darkfall is the same. There is tons of content; it just depends on what *you* define as content.
Case in point: I think WOW has very little content - you can either: do mindnumbing copy'n'paste quests, re-run copy'n'paste instances, or re-run one of a small number of BGs/arenas. sure there are thing to *do*, but none of it *appeals* to me. thus, to me, WOW has little content.
Right. But, as it is with all the opinions, in order to come to something even close enough to comparison, we must pick an average to compare with. In that perspective, I would say WoW or EQ2 would be the average bar to compare PvE to. So when DF dev claims that PvE is separate and independent from PvP feature of the game, one would expect it to be close to the level of that average PvE. And when the fall short, that generates attention. It seems that most people consider DF to have poor PvE, so the statement from the developers seems to be misinformation. Just like Funcom misinformed everyone when they promised DX10 at the release.
So this discussion is not about whether you consider PvE to be good enough or someone else considering it to be bad enough. You cant compare opinions of 2 different people. This is about comparing to something average.
WoW, EQ2 and other games with heavy questing and PvE raised the average bar since EQ1 days. People expect more then just several generic quests.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Your wish is my command...
forums.darkfallonline.com/
You're welcome...enjoy your sentence...I mean stay.
I think that is an insightful observation. However, I dont think that players who enjoy this game are all 'deluded'
Some people actualy like Darkfall even with its flaws. Yet we berate them for it as if we were scolding a small child. NOt everyone is a 'Fanboi', they are just players.
Basically this is true. If you create a game and hype it as hardcore, sandbox, make it FFA pvp with full loot and you will find 10,000 who will play it. Out of 100 million people playing online games now, if you create the 'fight' between trolls and fanboys, it is easy to find 10,000 people who will fight for your game after launch just because of their pre-launch hope... ie ego.
Your comment about players not all being deluded is spot on. The problem is 'for how long'. Almost every mmorpg is fun for the first few weeks... what will kill darkfall is what is killing warhammer... very soon even the most hardcore pvpers will say " is this it? are we just going to run around naked month after month fighting the same towns/people". There just are not enough gameplay and features in Darkfall to make it a real MMORPG... while people probably really do find it fun now.. will they really think it's fun after they've recaptured the same town 50 times in the next month?
Sadly, Counter-Strike wishes to argue about the "fun for a few weeks" The maps are all the same repeated over and over again.. and there are thousands upon thousans of people who play Counter-Strike..
Yeah, except Counter-strike doesn't have a monthly fee. Darkfall is like a half-assed version of a FPS, but it charges a monthly fee and has more hacks and exploits.
Ding ding ding ding.. We Have a winner!!!!!!!
When in an FPS do you build your own city to defend? (Half assed feature in the game, but nontheless a feature), and when in an FPS did you gain levels and change your gear? When in an FPS did you use dipolmacy? When in an FPS did you accually "own" territory that wasn't instanced in lobbies? When in an FPS do you interact with more than 32 people at a time? GG its very much like Counter-Strike with the exception of its major features.
Actually, Joint Ops (best online FPS to date) had servers that were able to support up to 164 players at a time. The BF series has player levels (termed "ranks") that increase with gaming experience. They also unlock gear changes which you can apply to your characters.
Maybe not as detailed or specific as you can find in an MMORPG, these features do exist in online FPSes.
As for diplomacy and owned territory, PlanetSide might offer some of that, but my experience with that game is rather limited.
Speaking of which, I can't wait for Huxley. Now that will be REAL twitched based combat.
Content can be quantified and measured, it is not an opinion like you seem to think. WoW has tons and tons of content, just because you do not like what the content is does not mean it does not exist.
DF on the other hand does not have a tiny fraction of the content WoW or EQ2 have in terms of PvE. Delude yourself all you want, doesn't change the facts that have been presented MANY times to you.
Content can be quantified and measured, it is not an opinion like you seem to think. WoW has tons and tons of content, just because you do not like what the content is does not mean it does not exist.
This.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Content can be quantified and measured, it is not an opinion like you seem to think. WoW has tons and tons of content, just because you do not like what the content is does not mean it does not exist.
This.
if "This" is true that it applies for DarkFall too.
DarkFall has tons of content, instead of killing a mob for the loot you kill a player , pleanty of content is running around and you go hunt it and it fights better back then a NPC mob, instaed of intstance raids you do clan city raids and enemy racial raids, there is tons of DF content just because OP do not like what the content is does not mean it does not exist and he is elligible to start troll topics.
People need to accept and respect the tons of content of Darkfall and go find theselves a hobby or something instead of sitting in forums of games they do not like.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
I have a hard time believing any game developer company will revamp their games after the release. Sounds awesome, but say weather for example, I believe they just abandoned the idea during development (maybe it was a resource hog?), it's a small chance we'll be seeing climate changes in Darkfall gameplay. Could also apply to other features. Call me a pessimist, but you'll hardly see companies doing major improvements in their games, not counting expansions of course.
Well, I'm playing Darkfall and I'm having fun.
Weather was partially up, for a short period, during beta. I believe that the intention is, still, to put it in.
Migrating mobs, additional mob populations, etc, we'll have to wait and see.
Content can be quantified and measured, it is not an opinion like you seem to think. WoW has tons and tons of content, just because you do not like what the content is does not mean it does not exist.
DF on the other hand does not have a tiny fraction of the content WoW or EQ2 have in terms of PvE. Delude yourself all you want, doesn't change the facts that have been presented MANY times to you.
...and actual players create FAR more content than Blizzard developers ever could. WOW has tons of SCRIPTED quest and boss fight content and tons of ways to make you grind for miniscule rewards. Darkfall has tons of player-created content.
the only reason you would not "get" Darkfall's content is if you're not into PVP and you'd rather fight dumbed-down AI.
i'm really getting tird of having to say it: if you want to fight stupid AI, scripted bosses and grind out repetitive quests, then get a fucking clue and GTFO of Darkfall. you will *never* convince us that PVE is better than PVP.
stop comparing DF with counterstrike, or fps' in general, its definately an mmo, and has enough features of an mmo to be called one (unlike, say, Guild Wars), for one, unlike CS, the world is persistent...
Anyway, agree with the OP, the devs ran out of money and just put the framework of the game in, with enough of the content that interested people to justify the "completed" title. This is what nearly every mmo does, no one delivers on HALF of their promises and they put it off for later. But how DF with other mmo's is that other mmo's devs have common sense; some of the features in game were put in the worst way possible, and patches create as many problems as they fix.
When I'm energetic I'm:
the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
When I'm at default I'm:
WHITE/BLUE
Lol according to this I'm bipolar :O
/Agree with OP
Followed the game for 3 and a half years
Played the beta
Played for a full month (expecting it to get at least a bit better)
Even I wasn't prepared for the emptiness. The PvP is there, but it needs a decent game underneath.
Right now all you can do is gank, farm, or grind (macro)
...and actual players create FAR more content than Blizzard developers ever could. WOW has tons of SCRIPTED quest and boss fight content and tons of ways to make you grind for miniscule rewards. Darkfall has tons of player-created content.
Why is it that only fanboys keep bringing up WoW in these threads? What's your point since this thread doesn't have anything to do with any PVE vs PVP argument to begin with?
the only reason you would not "get" Darkfall's content is if you're not into PVP and you'd rather fight dumbed-down AI.
Darkfall fanboys apparently need to retake English 101. "Getting" PVP has nothing to do with this thread. Nice try at redirection, though. Darkfall fanboys have gotten very good at that.
i'm really getting tird of having to say it: if you want to fight stupid AI, scripted bosses and grind out repetitive quests, then get a fucking clue and GTFO of Darkfall. you will *never* convince us that PVE is better than PVP.
This thread is not about people's interest in PVE or PVP, so take it to another thread. Fanboys like you keep saying PVE was never an intentional component of Darkfall. Several intelligent posters have corrected you, with quotes directly from the Darkfall website. If you can't see the forest for the trees I think nobody can help you at this point.
My responses
My responses
And they would be wrong.
PVE is an intregal component of Darkfall and, as a matter of fact, is what many players spend the majority of their time, in game, actually doing.
This thread seems to be populated by the majority of people who don't play Darkfall and don't like the idea of it.
So?
Don't play it
The game is full of people who do play and do like it. Enough people that there isnt room for more at the moment.
Demand of this game easily outstrips supply, so It is not going to fail.
DFO caters to the people who like what it has. You don't, thats fine, forget it exists and play something else.
What most of you need to do is get used to the fact that other people have differing opinions and likes/dislikes to you.
I really dont understand how humans can trash people who think differently to them.
1) I did play darkfall
2) I like the idea of it
3) Darkfall has been a failure, worst MMO launch in history...
4) I don't play it, I got a refund from that shitty company... THANK GOD
5) "DFO caters to the people who like what it has. You don't, thats fine, forget it exists and play something else."
KINDA HARD TO DO WHEN THEY LIED TO THEIR CUSTOMERS ABOUT CONTENT THAT WAS NEVER ACTUALLY IN GAME! THATS CALLED FALSE ADVERTISING!! Well fanbois would never understand...
6) DFO = FAIL
Who cares about what was advertised or what wasnt? The entire point to advertising is to sell a product noone would buy, be it a MMORPG or shampoo. Thats what living in our society should teach you. You do realise that the women on the adverts for shampoo are wearing wigs of synthetic hair don't you?
What we have left is the game, not that which was advertised, but that which was released. So instead of argueing about osme virtual idea of a game, talk about what is really there.
Instead of getting on with your life and putting a bad experiance behind you, you attack those who enjoy what you dont?
I feel sorry for you, I really do