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Customer Support is killing this game...
odessabo
Member Posts: 24
For a little background, I gave up on 4 years and two accounts of WoW because I have less time to play. However, I decided to come back to LOTRO for a little less stressful environment. $15 a month is not that bad and I can really wind down after a long week in Middle Earth. I let my 5 yr old play a couple of hours after pre-school and I usually have it on the weekends. He's pretty good in not playing on my server and he's just proud that his hunter is level 12.
Everything was going fine with the game until the server problems last week.
So, with the servers being down last week, I decided to remove the TDM and install the full client. The TDM was giving me fits for a while now and thought it would be a good time to go to the full client.
Didnt back into the game until Saturday, when my 5 yr old said the game was broke. I went to login, but got the message I was banned. According to Turbine, if a person is banned, they get an email explaining why. I got no such email. So now I'm wondering, what in the world could a 5 yr old do to get a ban? He cant understand what people are saying around him. He just goes around killing mobs around him, maybe straying too far from beginning towns and gets killed by a red or purple mob. The worst I saw him do was one day he was following a guy around and I saw the guy type..."DUDE STOP FOLLOWING ME!" I explained to him that people get upset when you just follow them around. But that was about 2 weeks ago and I havent noticed anything else.
First thought with the ban was that he did it again, but a quick check of the LOTRO forums that day and was releived that other people were having similar problems getting logged in too and figured my issue was this. I tried calling customer support, but the recording said their CS hours were changed to M-F 4:00p - 8:45p.
What is weird is, the game lets me log in, but I'm stuck at the launcher with a banned message. From there, if I click on ACCOUNT, it takes me to my account via the brower, there it shows my account renews on 5/2/2009. This means, they reupped my monthly fee on Thursday. But below that is a message that my account is banned until 8/18/2036.
So, I submitted email to customer support a couple of times, posted in the forums on various threads, which is a mistake right off the bat (ie "can i have your stuffz?") and I called on MON, TUE & WED, only to be stuck in phone queue from 6:00 on (i dont get home til 5:30).
Here is their response on WED via email:
Hello Jim,
Thanks for the inquiry.
We apologize for the error with your account. This issue affected some users' ability to log into the game, and has been resolved.
Please let us know if you need additional assistance in this or any other matter by replying to this email.
Thank you,
Turbine Customer Support
Very canned. But I was still banned. Frustrated with Turbine and their lack of support, I realized that they never checked my account situation and I cancelled my account and i replied with:
Hello back,
Well my issue has not been resolved as your email states and still shows the same 'banned' message. It's a shame I get a copy and pasted reply to a weeks' worth of emails and long waits on the phone. As of today, my account has been canceled. I hope your lack of customer support in this issue was worth the last month's worth of payment.
Today I get the email reply:
Thanks for the response.
We apologize for not discovering this earlier. Your account has been banned by In-Game Support for a Code of Conduct violation.
For more information on this matter, please email turbinesupportexperience@turbine.com
No specifics, no nothing. This is the same email address I had been sending all my emails to. Hey, if we did something banable, let me know what it is. Don't give me a generalized paste job. If it were him following people around and annoying them, is that worth a 30 year ban? I get no warning, no 1 or 3 day suspension? Thanks for nothing Turbine. And as far as your customer service center..what is up with your M-F 4p - 8:45p calling hours? You running that out of a garage somewhere?
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Electric football is 'old school' gaming.
Comments
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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Its a wierd situation as I have found support to be pretty decent in the past. Saying that, I am sorry for all your troubles, it seems Turbine owe you a big apology. One thing that is odd is the forum responses, it really doesn't fit in with the community to have responses along the lines of 'can I have your stuffz' ...
They will give you details of the offense that led to the ban, I would investigate further as it is very unlikely they impose a 30 year ban without giving you the reason. I hope you get it sorted out
And you better not try European Lotro customer support, which is as stated by many even worse. My experience with their in-game support was terrible. Not that the gm's would be amateurs or rude, but they have no competence to help you with anything whatsoever. For example, if you losed an item due to a mail bug some time ago, you wouldn't get it back.
REALITY CHECK
Can I be the one to post the obvious? Don't let a 5 year old play an online MMO if you don't want to risk him doing something wrong and not knowing.
As you said he's too young to understand, which includes the rules. In the future get an account for yourself and one for your kid to mess around on in case he breaks the rules without knowing.
Like the guy above said, Id keep your kid on a seperate account. Someone that youngs bound to get banned eventually. In fact I've had to get a number of kids that age banned. Not to say your kid deserved it. I don't know the details. Generally Im friends with the GM's so I dont have issues. I actually talk to them when I log on lol. Friendly folks with a pile full of shit in front of them every day.
Your response has nothing to do with the poor treatment the OP has received at the hands of Turbine's customer support. Why didn't you post something helpful?
I let my grandchildren play on my GW accounts, and one of them got a ban. I asked him what he had done and he said, of course, nothing. It didn't take much effort of my part to find out that he got the ban for spamming that he wanted to buy a certain item, and had received a warning once before for the same offense. The information was readily available, so there can't be a big problem with providing the custormer with information about their account, especially something as important as a 30-year ban. Way to go Turbine.
Not everyone can be the GM's pets and get special attention.
Not everyone can be the GM's pets and get special attention.
I dont think there is any need to resort to insults ....
Not everyone can be the GM's pets and get special attention.
I dont think there is any need to resort to insults ....
Not an insult, just an observation.
Not everyone can be the GM's pets and get special attention.
I dont think there is any need to resort to insults ....
Not an insult, just an observation.
seriously, dont try and suggest that your 'pet' comment wasn't anything but insulting. Referring to anyone as someone's pet in this scenario is simply insulting. Techleo highlights a decent point, being friendly and approachable makes people want to help you all the more.
Back on topic, it looks as though Turbines support is slipping and that needs to be addressed as it could be a game-breaker for some and thats lost income for a rescuable reason.
Like my OP stated, if its an banable offense, fine, ban the account. But tell me what it was. Dont give me a canned bot-response.
What I find ironic is this, I was about to go and get a second copy, because my current account was only SoA. My highest toon was only now closing in on the content of Moria and I hadnt bought the upgrade yet. All this time I've subscribed and they collected money from me and my toon was a lowbie. I just wasnt sure on whether or not to upgrade my existing account or open a second because I had to buy the whole game anyways for either path.
Because of this, they get no soup.
My poor 5 yrs now goes back to playing Clifford & Spore Creature Creator.
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Electric football is 'old school' gaming.
Not everyone can be the GM's pets and get special attention.
I dont think there is any need to resort to insults ....
Not an insult, just an observation.
seriously, dont try and suggest that your 'pet' comment wasn't anything but insulting. Referring to anyone as someone's pet in this scenario is simply insulting. Techleo highlights a decent point, being friendly and approachable makes people want to help you all the more.
Back on topic, it looks as though Turbines support is slipping and that needs to be addressed as it could be a game-breaker for some and thats lost income for a rescuable reason.
I'm not insulting anyone. Techno bragged about being friends with the GMs and therefore he didn't have any problems (ie. special consideration). If anything, he is implying that he uses his friendship with the GMs for his personal benefit.
Your response has nothing to do with the poor treatment the OP has received at the hands of Turbine's customer support. Why didn't you post something helpful?
I let my grandchildren play on my GW accounts, and one of them got a ban. I asked him what he had done and he said, of course, nothing. It didn't take much effort of my part to find out that he got the ban for spamming that he wanted to buy a certain item, and had received a warning once before for the same offense. The information was readily available, so there can't be a big problem with providing the custormer with information about their account, especially something as important as a 30-year ban. Way to go Turbine.
A company does not have to remind you of how you broke the rules and got banned. So if you are sharing the account with someone else, family or otherwise, (sharing accounts, no matter how innocent, tends to be against the rules in many MMOs anyways) make sure that person isn't going to lie to you when they get the account banned.
Interesting that pointing out the truth isn't helpful, clearly every OP on the forums is innocent and harmed by the companies and as such everyone should agree with those posters and share their pain. The truth is the company is under no obligation to tell you why you were banned. Especially since it is supposed to be your account and you were supposed to be the one sitting there playing and as such should know why you got banned. Is it unfortunate that his kid got the account banned, sure. Should he have been letting the kid use his account if he wasn't ready to deal with something like that happening, no.
Even though he said he tried calling a couple times and was on hold, if you really desire the information the phone is probably a better way to get it so try calling again. And any ban over a year is generally just typed in as a lifetime ban which is where the 30 years comes from.
I suppose you could have contested the ban though that could be tough. I'm sure that game companies are aware that parents sometimes let their kids play their accounts but that doesn't mean that the rules shouldn't be followed.
It is not uncommon for game companies to tell a player that they are banned but not be specific. NC Soft would do this as well.
From my experience Turbine customer service is well meaning but not always perfect.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I'm sorry that you got your account banned, however any parent, myself included runs the risk of these issues when we allow our children to play an MMO.
My daughter is 7yrs old, I don't allow her to play any of my subscription MMO's as I have seen all to often scenario's that the OP has stated, however there are enough F2P MMO's out there for children to play and as such my daughter currently plays Wizard 101 and is very happy in that game.
I've never encountered any issues while dealing with the CS and I have had issues with my account before and had them resolved quickly and without fuss.
CS for you has killed your game, I don't think it's fair to say it's doing the same for everybody else though.
Also whats wrong with CS being from 4pm til 8.45pm, wouldn't that actually suit ppl who work? which I would understand as being the majority of bill payers for the game, you can actually sort problems out when you get home rather than trying to fit it within a busy work day.
I couldn't agree more.
Turbine CS has been excellent in my experiences. I recently had un-used refferal credits on my inactive account, that I was unable to use for some reason. I contacted support and within a day they had added the credits to my account and I was re-instated to Active status.
Fast and efficient in my experiences.
I suppose you could have contested the ban though that could be tough. I'm sure that game companies are aware that parents sometimes let their kids play their accounts but that doesn't mean that the rules shouldn't be followed.
It is not uncommon for game companies to tell a player that they are banned but not be specific. NC Soft would do this as well.
From my experience Turbine customer service is well meaning but not always perfect.
well if this is the case, it is bad policy. a pissed off GM can ruin a player's experience with a game and/or the game company. so my account should lie in the balance based on a mood and whim of a GM?
I have actually had a similar occasion a couple years back with the 'BIG' MMO and they reveiwed the logs and found in my favor. why? because they took the time to review it. dont just generalize and say..."oh, this GM banned you so it must be so."
i'm sure glad the legal system doesnt work this way and the police on the street aren't the judges & jury.
and furthermore, i cannot imagine a game where a 5 year old can do something in game that constitutes a lifetime ban, no questions asked...can you?
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Electric football is 'old school' gaming.
You are highly underestimating the mind of a five year old child.
Anything they see around home, they will replicate online, and I mean ANYTHING.
Food for thought, I'm sure it's convenient to assume you are not at fault in any way, shape or form, but that simply is not the reality of the situation. You let the child play, that makes you directly responsible for anything that took place on the account in question.
Sorry to hear you were banned, next time I'd advise against letting a small child play games that involve an online environment. When you buy a game, that rating on the box isn't just for show...
4p - 8:45p wouldnt be bad if I actually got through. I never did. I tried 3 days in a row, twice running my battery on my phone dead while listening to the music (at least i liked the music).
the thrid day ran until 8:45 and I got dropped, called back and got the dreaded.."thank you for calling turbine. yada yada yada *click*
you guys are missing the point anyways. i have said multiple times, if it was a banable offense..fine. tell me what it was and I'll move on. dont give me "in-game conduct" one liners. I'm sure it was. maybe i stole a sour GM's iron ore node and it wasnt my son's fault at all. And to those who say Turbine doesn't need to explain why...where do you live in which you are not entitled to know what charges are being held against you?
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Electric football is 'old school' gaming.
Your response has nothing to do with the poor treatment the OP has received at the hands of Turbine's customer support. Why didn't you post something helpful?
I let my grandchildren play on my GW accounts, and one of them got a ban. I asked him what he had done and he said, of course, nothing. It didn't take much effort of my part to find out that he got the ban for spamming that he wanted to buy a certain item, and had received a warning once before for the same offense. The information was readily available, so there can't be a big problem with providing the custormer with information about their account, especially something as important as a 30-year ban. Way to go Turbine.
A company does not have to remind you of how you broke the rules and got banned. So if you are sharing the account with someone else, family or otherwise, (sharing accounts, no matter how innocent, tends to be against the rules in many MMOs anyways) make sure that person isn't going to lie to you when they get the account banned.
Interesting that pointing out the truth isn't helpful, clearly every OP on the forums is innocent and harmed by the companies and as such everyone should agree with those posters and share their pain. The truth is the company is under no obligation to tell you why you were banned. Especially since it is supposed to be your account and you were supposed to be the one sitting there playing and as such should know why you got banned. Is it unfortunate that his kid got the account banned, sure. Should he have been letting the kid use his account if he wasn't ready to deal with something like that happening, no.
Even though he said he tried calling a couple times and was on hold, if you really desire the information the phone is probably a better way to get it so try calling again. And any ban over a year is generally just typed in as a lifetime ban which is where the 30 years comes from.
Actually, Turbine is located in the US and is incorporated as a US company. They are not located in Russia or China, or any other repressive government. Because they deprived the OP of something of value that was his (ie., the remainder of his subscription for the month), they are legally required to provide a reason for the banning. Not to do so would constitute illegal taking. They know this but for some reason are ignoring their obligation to the OP. I guess they feel they have enough subs so that they don't care about one unhappy former sub.
Also, I don't understand your self-righteous tone in your posts. Are you a Turbine employee trying to justify the actions of your employer?
4p - 8:45p wouldnt be bad if I actually got through. I never did. I tried 3 days in a row, twice running my battery on my phone dead while listening to the music (at least i liked the music).
the thrid day ran until 8:45 and I got dropped, called back and got the dreaded.."thank you for calling turbine. yada yada yada *click*
you guys are missing the point anyways. i have said multiple times, if it was a banable offense..fine. tell me what it was and I'll move on. dont give me "in-game conduct" one liners. I'm sure it was. maybe i stole a sour GM's iron ore node and it wasnt my son's fault at all. And to those who say Turbine doesn't need to explain why...where do you live in which you are not entitled to know what charges are being held against you?
Ok, now that some people have had a chance to blow off steam, let's get real for a second. Entitlement is analogous to a right, and most everyone who plays a computer game signs a user agreement that specifies what "rights" he or she has under the contract. Violations of the contract, no matter how unwitting, may entail severe consequences. Please don't attempt to use a criminal analogy to a contract scenario, because it just doesn't fit.
The first thing I would recommend is reading the EULA. If you haven't read the EULA, please don't scream about what rights you have, because you really don't know. Personally, I haven't read the EULA for LOTRO, but I do know that in some games, even letting someone else use your account can be a bannable violation.
As to the customer service issue, I feel bad that it took so long for the poor fellow to get an initial response, but if a different department is in charge of dealing with EULA violations, then it's not inappropriate in the least for the general customer service team to refer him to that department. In fact, it's standard business practice.
Your response has nothing to do with the poor treatment the OP has received at the hands of Turbine's customer support. Why didn't you post something helpful?
I let my grandchildren play on my GW accounts, and one of them got a ban. I asked him what he had done and he said, of course, nothing. It didn't take much effort of my part to find out that he got the ban for spamming that he wanted to buy a certain item, and had received a warning once before for the same offense. The information was readily available, so there can't be a big problem with providing the custormer with information about their account, especially something as important as a 30-year ban. Way to go Turbine.
A company does not have to remind you of how you broke the rules and got banned. So if you are sharing the account with someone else, family or otherwise, (sharing accounts, no matter how innocent, tends to be against the rules in many MMOs anyways) make sure that person isn't going to lie to you when they get the account banned.
Interesting that pointing out the truth isn't helpful, clearly every OP on the forums is innocent and harmed by the companies and as such everyone should agree with those posters and share their pain. The truth is the company is under no obligation to tell you why you were banned. Especially since it is supposed to be your account and you were supposed to be the one sitting there playing and as such should know why you got banned. Is it unfortunate that his kid got the account banned, sure. Should he have been letting the kid use his account if he wasn't ready to deal with something like that happening, no.
Even though he said he tried calling a couple times and was on hold, if you really desire the information the phone is probably a better way to get it so try calling again. And any ban over a year is generally just typed in as a lifetime ban which is where the 30 years comes from.
Actually, Turbine is located in the US and is incorporated as a US company. They are not located in Russia or China, or any other repressive government. Because they deprived the OP of something of value that was his (ie., the remainder of his subscription for the month), they are legally required to provide a reason for the banning. Not to do so would constitute illegal taking. They know this but for some reason are ignoring their obligation to the OP. I guess they feel they have enough subs so that they don't care about one unhappy former sub.
Also, I don't understand your self-righteous tone in your posts. Are you a Turbine employee trying to justify the actions of your employer?
It has nothing to do with self righteous it has purely to do with being tired of players feeling entitled to things they're not. So many threads on these boards are along the lines of I did something wrong and so now I'm mad that I got punished. It's wrong to have a 5 year old playing an mmo in the first place.
You read threads all day long like " I created a difficult to report name in darkfall so I could exploit/cheat without being banned and now darkfall is banning my account this is stupid" people have this sense of entitlement when they're the ones who did things wrong. It gets old to read so I am finally posting on these threads letting people know it's their own fault. Take it as self righteous that I don't agree with defending him if you want I really don't care.
And no they're not required to give you a reason for anything. You agree to their Terms of Service/Code of Conduct by playing, most companies ToS/CoC has something along the lines of being able to terminate your account at any time for any reason they feel. Once again this "I'm an American I'm owed everything" mentality it ridiculous, learn the actual rules before complaining and thinking you are owed.
Your response has nothing to do with the poor treatment the OP has received at the hands of Turbine's customer support. Why didn't you post something helpful?
I let my grandchildren play on my GW accounts, and one of them got a ban. I asked him what he had done and he said, of course, nothing. It didn't take much effort of my part to find out that he got the ban for spamming that he wanted to buy a certain item, and had received a warning once before for the same offense. The information was readily available, so there can't be a big problem with providing the custormer with information about their account, especially something as important as a 30-year ban. Way to go Turbine.
A company does not have to remind you of how you broke the rules and got banned. So if you are sharing the account with someone else, family or otherwise, (sharing accounts, no matter how innocent, tends to be against the rules in many MMOs anyways) make sure that person isn't going to lie to you when they get the account banned.
Interesting that pointing out the truth isn't helpful, clearly every OP on the forums is innocent and harmed by the companies and as such everyone should agree with those posters and share their pain. The truth is the company is under no obligation to tell you why you were banned. Especially since it is supposed to be your account and you were supposed to be the one sitting there playing and as such should know why you got banned. Is it unfortunate that his kid got the account banned, sure. Should he have been letting the kid use his account if he wasn't ready to deal with something like that happening, no.
Even though he said he tried calling a couple times and was on hold, if you really desire the information the phone is probably a better way to get it so try calling again. And any ban over a year is generally just typed in as a lifetime ban which is where the 30 years comes from.
Actually, Turbine is located in the US and is incorporated as a US company. They are not located in Russia or China, or any other repressive government. Because they deprived the OP of something of value that was his (ie., the remainder of his subscription for the month), they are legally required to provide a reason for the banning. Not to do so would constitute illegal taking. They know this but for some reason are ignoring their obligation to the OP. I guess they feel they have enough subs so that they don't care about one unhappy former sub.
Also, I don't understand your self-righteous tone in your posts. Are you a Turbine employee trying to justify the actions of your employer?
It has nothing to do with self righteous it has purely to do with being tired of players feeling entitled to things they're not. So many threads on these boards are along the lines of I did something wrong and so now I'm mad that I got punished. It's wrong to have a 5 year old playing an mmo in the first place.
You read threads all day long like " I created a difficult to report name in darkfall so I could exploit/cheat without being banned and now darkfall is banning my account this is stupid" people have this sense of entitlement when they're the ones who did things wrong. It gets old to read so I am finally posting on these threads letting people know it's their own fault. Take it as self righteous that I don't agree with defending him if you want I really don't care.
And no they're not required to give you a reason for anything. You agree to their Terms of Service/Code of Conduct by playing, most companies ToS/CoC has something along the lines of being able to terminate your account at any time for any reason they feel. Once again this "I'm an American I'm owed everything" mentality it ridiculous, learn the actual rules before complaining and thinking you are owed.
what i find the most amazing are those of you that rally behind this policy with your flags waving...
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Electric football is 'old school' gaming.
Your response has nothing to do with the poor treatment the OP has received at the hands of Turbine's customer support. Why didn't you post something helpful?
I let my grandchildren play on my GW accounts, and one of them got a ban. I asked him what he had done and he said, of course, nothing. It didn't take much effort of my part to find out that he got the ban for spamming that he wanted to buy a certain item, and had received a warning once before for the same offense. The information was readily available, so there can't be a big problem with providing the custormer with information about their account, especially something as important as a 30-year ban. Way to go Turbine.
A company does not have to remind you of how you broke the rules and got banned. So if you are sharing the account with someone else, family or otherwise, (sharing accounts, no matter how innocent, tends to be against the rules in many MMOs anyways) make sure that person isn't going to lie to you when they get the account banned.
Interesting that pointing out the truth isn't helpful, clearly every OP on the forums is innocent and harmed by the companies and as such everyone should agree with those posters and share their pain. The truth is the company is under no obligation to tell you why you were banned. Especially since it is supposed to be your account and you were supposed to be the one sitting there playing and as such should know why you got banned. Is it unfortunate that his kid got the account banned, sure. Should he have been letting the kid use his account if he wasn't ready to deal with something like that happening, no.
Even though he said he tried calling a couple times and was on hold, if you really desire the information the phone is probably a better way to get it so try calling again. And any ban over a year is generally just typed in as a lifetime ban which is where the 30 years comes from.
Actually, Turbine is located in the US and is incorporated as a US company. They are not located in Russia or China, or any other repressive government. Because they deprived the OP of something of value that was his (ie., the remainder of his subscription for the month), they are legally required to provide a reason for the banning. Not to do so would constitute illegal taking. They know this but for some reason are ignoring their obligation to the OP. I guess they feel they have enough subs so that they don't care about one unhappy former sub.
Also, I don't understand your self-righteous tone in your posts. Are you a Turbine employee trying to justify the actions of your employer?
It has nothing to do with self righteous it has purely to do with being tired of players feeling entitled to things they're not. So many threads on these boards are along the lines of I did something wrong and so now I'm mad that I got punished. It's wrong to have a 5 year old playing an mmo in the first place.
Is this your personal opinion or can you give a link to support your statement?
You read threads all day long like " I created a difficult to report name in darkfall so I could exploit/cheat without being banned and now darkfall is banning my account this is stupid" people have this sense of entitlement when they're the ones who did things wrong. It gets old to read so I am finally posting on these threads letting people know it's their own fault. Take it as self righteous that I don't agree with defending him if you want I really don't care.
And no they're not required to give you a reason for anything. You agree to their Terms of Service/Code of Conduct by playing, most companies ToS/CoC has something along the lines of being able to terminate your account at any time for any reason they feel. Once again this "I'm an American I'm owed everything" mentality it ridiculous, learn the actual rules before complaining and thinking you are owed.
You are indeed a delight to companies that refuse to deal with their customers as human beings.
Ok, odessabo, now you're just getting annoying. Your post implies that your own subjective opinion of "fairness" should somehow trump the contract that you yourself agreed to, and that anyone who disagrees is somehow to be ridiculed. While I feel for the fact that you had difficulty getting an initial response from Turbine, my empathy is quickly disappearing.
You brought the situation on yourself. You screwed up. Learn from it. Don't diminish your credibility by posting one line crap that is just spiteful and wrong. Read the contract next time before agreeing to it. Once you read it and enter into it, try to abide by it. You'll be a much happier and better informed person in the long run for having done it.