Management, the dev team, the economy, Whiting - they are all to blame - it just more complicated than saying it is just Jenson and Whiting - they all had a part in the screw-up - no doubt.
Then were did the rumor come from that he is only in the office 2 days a week.
When Jensen started, he did not relocate to Arizona (maybe he never did relocate) and he was commuting weekly from CA to AZ, staying in a corporate apartment. He was only in the office a few days a week.
I'm sure it cost a boat load for all that travel and apartment rent! Just the kind of costs a start-up should incur.
While he might have been working 6 days a week, his focus was not on Stargate 100%. It was also divided among all the other studios, investments, and other companies.
“who cares what Gary does - this is a Stargate Worlds forum” We care! Gary & Crew had enough funds to finish Stargate. They made some bad investments with the original investor money and those mistakes continued or compound to where we are today.
“Jenson never did anything wrong” Okay, like the SEC loves to ruin people’s careers and keep them from running public companies just because their former employer didn’t want to pay severance? I’ll take what you’re smoking, along with the cool aid you’re drinking!
“Whiting has pissed off lots of people” Thanks for re-confirming that! Bet I see him flying back to Utah with body guards next time.
“It is just interesting that when funding wasn't a problem, then no one had concerns about Whiting” Oh yes they did! Many questioned all those bad investments made by Whiting & Crew. Seriously, does a software company need to invest in another Mexican restaurant in the Phoenix area? What about those Spanish movie kiosks? Not enough space to list them all.
“A few months ago, people were applauding what a great development team, Jenson had put together” Really? Who has been blowing smoke up your ass? I guess the proof will be in the putting when SGW comes out. We'll see how great they all are.
“More focus by everyone to work together and less finger pointing - less distractions” Not sure you can boss people around on these forums. They are not moderated like SGW. I suppose if CME just paid their employees, vendors and gave investors a good feeling about the game coming out, there would be no distractions.
If after beta testing it,you still want it released ???? If your answer is yes, then you havent beta tested it. If you can get a sample of this game thru beta testing, i dont think you would care whether or not it ever gets released.
TO OP ----- FYI---- VULTURES DONT ATTACK THEY SCAVENGE THINGS THAT ARE ALL READY DEAD---THE VULTURES KNOW ITS DEAD NOW THEY JUST PICK APART THE CORPSE OF A CRAPTASTIC GAME
So I wonder if it should be ok to say you beta tested it now. I mean simply because beta shut down how many months ago? Quite frankly I'll be suprised if another "beta stage" ever begins.
Or are you supposed to be under NDA forever for a test that may or may not ever start up again.
Oh and yes its true Vultures pretty much eat things that are already dead. Sharks would have probably been a better reference as they do "frenzy" over the scent of blood....
I think Kyriesunset had it right for the most part. I am not sure where she got her facts regarding some bad investment - Whiting is involved in lots of companies - but none of the CME money went to anything but buidling games. Regarding her SEC comments - if you've ever been involved in an IRS audit or other government action - yes they love to ruin peoples lives and they have no accountability for their actions. CME did not invest in any Mexican restaurant or Spanish movie kiosks. The forums are great places for people to let it all out - but don't base any life decisions on their accuracy.
Don't know for sure, but I think the original strategy for CME was to raise a little of $100 million and open 10 studios - only one is building Stargate Worlds. Stargate Worlds is the largest project and fundraising and development was going on schedule until mid-2008 when funding dried up and CME stopped adding studio and currently are only running three studios.
Larger investors are skeptical about investing in a one-product company, so CME has had more success fundraising with multiple products - that is how they raised the $40 million - they could have never done this for Stargate alone.
Whiting is an entrepreneur - he has started up more than 20 businesses. But from the track records - he is not a businessman. MMOGULs is another one of Whiting start-ups. He wanted to use a highly commissioned direct sales force or MLM (multi-level marketing company) to sell Stargate Worlds. Jenson is not a fan of MLM's and didn't want to, so Whiting started a new company. It is not affiliated with CME, but it is another Whiting company. Separate from CME and its subsidiaries, Whiting probably still has over 15 other companies involved in software, real estate, social networking, coupons, etc. etc. - People often lump CME in with other Whiting companies - but there are separately owned and operated.
Don't know for sure, but I think the original strategy for CME was to raise a little of $100 million and open 10 studios - only one is building Stargate Worlds. Stargate Worlds is the largest project and fundraising and development was going on schedule until mid-2008 when funding dried up and CME stopped adding studio and currently are only running three studios.
I'm looking at the original business plan for Stargate right now. There is no mention of 10 stuidos anywhere!
Oh lookie, I also have an updated plan dated January 2008, no mention of any other game or studio! The figures needed to compete SGW are reasonable. Seriously, if they shit canned the dead weight they could maybe still get SGW done and out the door.
Perhaps the funding for the other studios couldnt happen unless they were lumped with Stargate? I know I would rather invest in a known brand.
I think the Stargate Worlds business plan is only about Stargate, CME planned on opening other studio and building other games - I think the other studios and games have their own business plans.
I think investors had the option of investing in just Stargate or in the parent company. While I think the Stargate game was the biggest draw, most investors were looking to invest in a company with multiple games - that is why most invested in CME rather than directly into Stargate.
Ok, if everyone wants to relate the company history, don't you think attempting to create/edit a wikipedia entry would be better than spamming this thread?
If anyone needs help getting started, here's a link:
With all this nonsense going on behind the scenes, you can forget about "Angel investors". Anyone that does any due dilligence isn't going to want to be within a thousand miles of this train wreck. You'd be better off taking your money to Vegas and play roulette. Shame too, the game itself was really looking promising.
A smart instituition investor can structure a deal around the train wreck and protect itself - hopefully they can find one.
During an economic crisis? I'd say the chances are somewhere between slim and none.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
A smart instituition investor can structure a deal around the train wreck and protect itself - hopefully they can find one.
A smarter one would probably wait for a bankruptcy, then buy the assets at pennies on the dollar.
The trouble is that it's not just a train wreck, it looks like a toxic train wreck.
The whole MMOGULS thing started it, as MLMs already have a shady reputation. (However, in another thread, after thinking about it, I believe that the entire structure of the CME slate of companies and business strategy was set up FOR MMOGULS, and it wasn't an afterthought by Whiting at all).
Next, if they are missing payroll again, then they are probably well into debt. So any money you'd provide as an investor would first be thrown into that hole to fill it.
But now, you also have allegations of improper or questionable money transfers from MMOGULS to... Whiting, I presume, and likely CME (from MMOGULS numbers, they raised about US$1 million, and as that was happening, back pay started flowing). This leaves the company vulnerable to a lawsuit perhaps, which is another liabilty an investor would really want to avoid.
FYI, the one group of people I don't lay any blame on at all are the developers themselves. While there are rumors about the quality of the alpha/beta, that may not be their fault. The current debacle is management's fault entirely.
No sane investor is going to jump into a situation where there is this kind of potential to have the companies assets tied up in litigation. Assuming some-one saw potential for this product, the smart play is to wait until the company goes belly up... have a court oversee the disposal of the companies assets and then pick-up what you view as valuable from the liquidation.
That way you get the same asset but without all the risk of liability attached.
I think Kyriesunset had it right for the most part. I am not sure where she got her facts regarding some bad investment - Whiting is involved in lots of companies - but none of the CME money went to anything but buidling games. Regarding her SEC comments - if you've ever been involved in an IRS audit or other government action - yes they love to ruin peoples lives and they have no accountability for their actions. CME did not invest in any Mexican restaurant or Spanish movie kiosks. The forums are great places for people to let it all out - but don't base any life decisions on their accuracy.
Hopefully you are still lurking around these boards Orgill3!! I had a hard time remembering the name of the company, but then it came to me! Cinemundo! Actually it's Cine Mundo, LLC Here is a link to something about their public filing as a company, and look! They have Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment as their management ! Maybe some of you board folks can dig up the rest.
Since I'm sure you didnt outright lie to us, could you please refresh us as to what Cinemundo did if it wasn’t Spanish movie kiosks? Also, I was curious what you did with all those Kiosks …. Are they the ones that “itzYourMall” is now using through the mesa metropolitan area?
Now, if I could only remember the name of that restaurant...
I think Kyriesunset had it right for the most part. I am not sure where she got her facts regarding some bad investment - Whiting is involved in lots of companies - but none of the CME money went to anything but buidling games. Regarding her SEC comments - if you've ever been involved in an IRS audit or other government action - yes they love to ruin peoples lives and they have no accountability for their actions. CME did not invest in any Mexican restaurant or Spanish movie kiosks. The forums are great places for people to let it all out - but don't base any life decisions on their accuracy.
Hopefully you are still lurking around these boards Orgill3!! I had a hard time remembering the name of the company, but then it came to me! Cinemundo! Actually it's Cine Mundo, LLC Here is a link to something about their public filing as a company, and look! They have Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment as their management ! Maybe some of you board folks can dig up the rest.
Since I'm sure you didnt outright lie to us, could you please refresh us as to what Cinemundo did if it wasn’t Spanish movie kiosks? Also, I was curious what you did with all those Kiosks …. Are they the ones that “itzYourMall” is now using through the mesa metropolitan area?
Now, if I could only remember the name of that restaurant...
Just when you though it was safe to invest in CME,
der, de ... der, de ..... du,de,du,du, du, de, du, DU, DE, DU, DU,
" TIBURON!!!!"
Coming to a Spanish movie kiosk near you! With a new and exciting cast,
FanOri = The Amity Town council, that believe SGW is safe for gamers and deny any danger exists.
Zhiroc = Chief Martin Brody, who's trying to protect the FanOri and eliminate the threat to gamers.
Kyriesunset = Matt Hooper, MMORPG industry analyst recruited to assist Zhiroc in hunting down the threat.
Agricola = Quint, slightly insane but trustworthy scumbag hunter recruited by Zhiroc.
Gary Whiting = Tiburon (Jaws), massive Shark that has got a taste for gamers and has been eating surfers alive!
Just when you thought it was safe to surf again, TIBURON!
It seems no matter how many floatation barrels you harpoon Whiting with he always seems to have the ability to sink even lower, makes Tiburon look like a noob!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
They have Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment as their management ! Maybe some of you board folks can dig up the rest.
Since I'm sure you didnt outright lie to us, could you please refresh us as to what Cinemundo did if it wasn’t Spanish movie kiosks? Also, I was curious what you did with all those Kiosks …. Are they the ones that “itzYourMall” is now using through the mesa metropolitan area?
Now, if I could only remember the name of that restaurant...
Cine-mundo did exist and there was even a temporary website for it. A contractor was paid thousands to help design the site. Cine-mundo started as one of those... Investor A will invest in CME if CME helps Investor A with his business idea. The CEO (Jenson) of CME thought it was such a good idea he hired the guy. (Isn't that odd... investor invests.. then gets all his money back in salary). Cine-mundo was never very big (had one internal employee) but it had large amounts of CME executive time and money.
CME had gone so far as to stake out several movie theatres in the East Valley in Mesa to buy and renovate. The whole business plan was predicated on buying old abandoned 4-6 theatre buildings, renovate them to modern movie theatres and show fully translated spanish movies (the kind that show in Mexico, modern Hollywood releases with their spanish translation, not sub titles) and market to the rather large hispanic population in Phoenix.
Thankfully CME never actually bought any Movie theatre realestate but it was very close at times. Most of this happened during CME's 1st and 2nd years, cine-mundo died away after the business plan was proven to be unsound and the "employee" was part of marketing for awhile. He eventually quit. While the whole thing was a blunder and a bad idea, CME probably broke even on it between the money invested and what the guy was paid in salary. But it was definately a serious serious sign of the shakey business decisions being made at the top of the food chain. No money was ever raised for Cine-Mundo so any money spent on it came straight from SGW funds (same for every other studio, they were all started on SGW funds, not their own. S ome inccurred small investments later, but all the moeny went into one large pot).
ItzYourMall's kiosks existed long before Cine-Mundo as part of Gary's previous failed business. ItzYourMall is a legitimate company it just generates zero profit and operates at a loss. It's Kiosk technology basically emounts to a Point of Sale unit that let's you buy discounted stuff (that IYMall gets at bulk rates). Disney Tickets, movie tickets, concerts, that kind of thing. Gary has of course offered it as a "value add" to the MMOGULs offering now but the Kiosks and Cinemundo really never went anywhere and were only slightly related.
Okay we are on a roll now! I'll try and remember all the failed/bad investments -- might take me forever, but eventually they will all come out!
Tigam, what was Cafe Rumba -- the Mexican restaurant they didn’t have (which is now closed, another sound investment!)
Not sure about Cafe Rumba. There was definately a deal between itzyourmall and Cafe Rumba to sell Cafe Rumba gift certificates via the ItzYourMall kiosks. There was also a time period where the investment team handed out Cafe Rumba gift cards to SGW leadership and others. I have no idea if CME invested in Cafe Rumba or not, I don't think they did but I couldn't prove it one way or the other. It's possible the owner of Cafe Rumba invested in CME. More likely though, Cafe Rumba was mormon owned and most (not all) of the investment team was/is Mormon and they knew the owner and were trying to help him drum up some business.
Cafe Rumba, I've been there once, was much like a Chipotle. Fresh mexican food, typical tortilla, black/pinto beans, rice, burritos etc.
Comments
Management, the dev team, the economy, Whiting - they are all to blame - it just more complicated than saying it is just Jenson and Whiting - they all had a part in the screw-up - no doubt.
When Jensen started, he did not relocate to Arizona (maybe he never did relocate) and he was commuting weekly from CA to AZ, staying in a corporate apartment. He was only in the office a few days a week.
I'm sure it cost a boat load for all that travel and apartment rent! Just the kind of costs a start-up should incur.
While he might have been working 6 days a week, his focus was not on Stargate 100%. It was also divided among all the other studios, investments, and other companies.
What about this previous post by Kyriesunset:
“who cares what Gary does - this is a Stargate Worlds forum” We care! Gary & Crew had enough funds to finish Stargate. They made some bad investments with the original investor money and those mistakes continued or compound to where we are today.
“Jenson never did anything wrong” Okay, like the SEC loves to ruin people’s careers and keep them from running public companies just because their former employer didn’t want to pay severance? I’ll take what you’re smoking, along with the cool aid you’re drinking!
“Whiting has pissed off lots of people” Thanks for re-confirming that! Bet I see him flying back to Utah with body guards next time.
“It is just interesting that when funding wasn't a problem, then no one had concerns about Whiting” Oh yes they did! Many questioned all those bad investments made by Whiting & Crew. Seriously, does a software company need to invest in another Mexican restaurant in the Phoenix area? What about those Spanish movie kiosks? Not enough space to list them all.
“A few months ago, people were applauding what a great development team, Jenson had put together” Really? Who has been blowing smoke up your ass? I guess the proof will be in the putting when SGW comes out. We'll see how great they all are.
“More focus by everyone to work together and less finger pointing - less distractions” Not sure you can boss people around on these forums. They are not moderated like SGW. I suppose if CME just paid their employees, vendors and gave investors a good feeling about the game coming out, there would be no distractions.
So I wonder if it should be ok to say you beta tested it now. I mean simply because beta shut down how many months ago? Quite frankly I'll be suprised if another "beta stage" ever begins.
Or are you supposed to be under NDA forever for a test that may or may not ever start up again.
Oh and yes its true Vultures pretty much eat things that are already dead. Sharks would have probably been a better reference as they do "frenzy" over the scent of blood....
I think Kyriesunset had it right for the most part. I am not sure where she got her facts regarding some bad investment - Whiting is involved in lots of companies - but none of the CME money went to anything but buidling games. Regarding her SEC comments - if you've ever been involved in an IRS audit or other government action - yes they love to ruin peoples lives and they have no accountability for their actions. CME did not invest in any Mexican restaurant or Spanish movie kiosks. The forums are great places for people to let it all out - but don't base any life decisions on their accuracy.
How is CME different from Stargate? Why is there a separation.
Don't know for sure, but I think the original strategy for CME was to raise a little of $100 million and open 10 studios - only one is building Stargate Worlds. Stargate Worlds is the largest project and fundraising and development was going on schedule until mid-2008 when funding dried up and CME stopped adding studio and currently are only running three studios.
If funding is a problem, why don't they scrap everything and focus just on Stargate so they can at least get something out the door.
Larger investors are skeptical about investing in a one-product company, so CME has had more success fundraising with multiple products - that is how they raised the $40 million - they could have never done this for Stargate alone.
What is all this chat about MMOGULS - what is that?
Whiting is an entrepreneur - he has started up more than 20 businesses. But from the track records - he is not a businessman. MMOGULs is another one of Whiting start-ups. He wanted to use a highly commissioned direct sales force or MLM (multi-level marketing company) to sell Stargate Worlds. Jenson is not a fan of MLM's and didn't want to, so Whiting started a new company. It is not affiliated with CME, but it is another Whiting company. Separate from CME and its subsidiaries, Whiting probably still has over 15 other companies involved in software, real estate, social networking, coupons, etc. etc. - People often lump CME in with other Whiting companies - but there are separately owned and operated.
I'm looking at the original business plan for Stargate right now. There is no mention of 10 stuidos anywhere!
Oh lookie, I also have an updated plan dated January 2008, no mention of any other game or studio! The figures needed to compete SGW are reasonable. Seriously, if they shit canned the dead weight they could maybe still get SGW done and out the door.
Perhaps the funding for the other studios couldnt happen unless they were lumped with Stargate? I know I would rather invest in a known brand.
I think the Stargate Worlds business plan is only about Stargate, CME planned on opening other studio and building other games - I think the other studios and games have their own business plans.
I think investors had the option of investing in just Stargate or in the parent company. While I think the Stargate game was the biggest draw, most investors were looking to invest in a company with multiple games - that is why most invested in CME rather than directly into Stargate.
Ok, if everyone wants to relate the company history, don't you think attempting to create/edit a wikipedia entry would be better than spamming this thread?
If anyone needs help getting started, here's a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Worlds
With all this nonsense going on behind the scenes, you can forget about "Angel investors". Anyone that does any due dilligence isn't going to want to be within a thousand miles of this train wreck. You'd be better off taking your money to Vegas and play roulette. Shame too, the game itself was really looking promising.
A smart instituition investor can structure a deal around the train wreck and protect itself - hopefully they can find one.
During an economic crisis? I'd say the chances are somewhere between slim and none.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
A smarter one would probably wait for a bankruptcy, then buy the assets at pennies on the dollar.
The trouble is that it's not just a train wreck, it looks like a toxic train wreck.
The whole MMOGULS thing started it, as MLMs already have a shady reputation. (However, in another thread, after thinking about it, I believe that the entire structure of the CME slate of companies and business strategy was set up FOR MMOGULS, and it wasn't an afterthought by Whiting at all).
Next, if they are missing payroll again, then they are probably well into debt. So any money you'd provide as an investor would first be thrown into that hole to fill it.
But now, you also have allegations of improper or questionable money transfers from MMOGULS to... Whiting, I presume, and likely CME (from MMOGULS numbers, they raised about US$1 million, and as that was happening, back pay started flowing). This leaves the company vulnerable to a lawsuit perhaps, which is another liabilty an investor would really want to avoid.
FYI, the one group of people I don't lay any blame on at all are the developers themselves. While there are rumors about the quality of the alpha/beta, that may not be their fault. The current debacle is management's fault entirely.
Zhiroc is right,
No sane investor is going to jump into a situation where there is this kind of potential to have the companies assets tied up in litigation. Assuming some-one saw potential for this product, the smart play is to wait until the company goes belly up... have a court oversee the disposal of the companies assets and then pick-up what you view as valuable from the liquidation.
That way you get the same asset but without all the risk of liability attached.
Hopefully you are still lurking around these boards Orgill3!! I had a hard time remembering the name of the company, but then it came to me! Cinemundo! Actually it's Cine Mundo, LLC Here is a link to something about their public filing as a company, and look! They have Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment as their management ! Maybe some of you board folks can dig up the rest.
Since I'm sure you didnt outright lie to us, could you please refresh us as to what Cinemundo did if it wasn’t Spanish movie kiosks? Also, I was curious what you did with all those Kiosks …. Are they the ones that “itzYourMall” is now using through the mesa metropolitan area?
Now, if I could only remember the name of that restaurant...
Hopefully you are still lurking around these boards Orgill3!! I had a hard time remembering the name of the company, but then it came to me! Cinemundo! Actually it's Cine Mundo, LLC Here is a link to something about their public filing as a company, and look! They have Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment as their management ! Maybe some of you board folks can dig up the rest.
Since I'm sure you didnt outright lie to us, could you please refresh us as to what Cinemundo did if it wasn’t Spanish movie kiosks? Also, I was curious what you did with all those Kiosks …. Are they the ones that “itzYourMall” is now using through the mesa metropolitan area?
Now, if I could only remember the name of that restaurant...
Just when you though it was safe to invest in CME,
der, de ... der, de ..... du,de,du,du, du, de, du, DU, DE, DU, DU,
" TIBURON!!!!"
Coming to a Spanish movie kiosk near you! With a new and exciting cast,
FanOri = The Amity Town council, that believe SGW is safe for gamers and deny any danger exists.
Zhiroc = Chief Martin Brody, who's trying to protect the FanOri and eliminate the threat to gamers.
Kyriesunset = Matt Hooper, MMORPG industry analyst recruited to assist Zhiroc in hunting down the threat.
Agricola = Quint, slightly insane but trustworthy scumbag hunter recruited by Zhiroc.
Gary Whiting = Tiburon (Jaws), massive Shark that has got a taste for gamers and has been eating surfers alive!
Just when you thought it was safe to surf again, TIBURON!
It seems no matter how many floatation barrels you harpoon Whiting with he always seems to have the ability to sink even lower, makes Tiburon look like a noob!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Cine-mundo did exist and there was even a temporary website for it. A contractor was paid thousands to help design the site. Cine-mundo started as one of those... Investor A will invest in CME if CME helps Investor A with his business idea. The CEO (Jenson) of CME thought it was such a good idea he hired the guy. (Isn't that odd... investor invests.. then gets all his money back in salary). Cine-mundo was never very big (had one internal employee) but it had large amounts of CME executive time and money.
CME had gone so far as to stake out several movie theatres in the East Valley in Mesa to buy and renovate. The whole business plan was predicated on buying old abandoned 4-6 theatre buildings, renovate them to modern movie theatres and show fully translated spanish movies (the kind that show in Mexico, modern Hollywood releases with their spanish translation, not sub titles) and market to the rather large hispanic population in Phoenix.
Thankfully CME never actually bought any Movie theatre realestate but it was very close at times. Most of this happened during CME's 1st and 2nd years, cine-mundo died away after the business plan was proven to be unsound and the "employee" was part of marketing for awhile. He eventually quit. While the whole thing was a blunder and a bad idea, CME probably broke even on it between the money invested and what the guy was paid in salary. But it was definately a serious serious sign of the shakey business decisions being made at the top of the food chain. No money was ever raised for Cine-Mundo so any money spent on it came straight from SGW funds (same for every other studio, they were all started on SGW funds, not their own. S ome inccurred small investments later, but all the moeny went into one large pot).
ItzYourMall's kiosks existed long before Cine-Mundo as part of Gary's previous failed business. ItzYourMall is a legitimate company it just generates zero profit and operates at a loss. It's Kiosk technology basically emounts to a Point of Sale unit that let's you buy discounted stuff (that IYMall gets at bulk rates). Disney Tickets, movie tickets, concerts, that kind of thing. Gary has of course offered it as a "value add" to the MMOGULs offering now but the Kiosks and Cinemundo really never went anywhere and were only slightly related.
Okay we are on a roll now! I'll try and remember all the failed/bad investments -- might take me forever, but eventually they will all come out!
Tigam, what was Cafe Rumba -- the Mexican restaurant they didn’t have (which is now closed, another sound investment!)
Not sure about Cafe Rumba. There was definately a deal between itzyourmall and Cafe Rumba to sell Cafe Rumba gift certificates via the ItzYourMall kiosks. There was also a time period where the investment team handed out Cafe Rumba gift cards to SGW leadership and others. I have no idea if CME invested in Cafe Rumba or not, I don't think they did but I couldn't prove it one way or the other. It's possible the owner of Cafe Rumba invested in CME. More likely though, Cafe Rumba was mormon owned and most (not all) of the investment team was/is Mormon and they knew the owner and were trying to help him drum up some business.
Cafe Rumba, I've been there once, was much like a Chipotle. Fresh mexican food, typical tortilla, black/pinto beans, rice, burritos etc.