But still, how fast someone draws, is based on their reflexes, not some statistical modifier and die roll.
You lost even much more as very few MMO players want combat based on reflexes.
There's a thing that's missing in a western MMO it's monters. Players will be bored pretty fast to kill humans, wolves and serpents only.
But I agree it could be a Fun Game.
Perhaps, but in my opinion, we've seen that gun-based RPG games have a tough time catching on. See case Tabula Rasa. If you make this a pure PRG in that sense of the word, I think it's just in that grey area where it could be so much neater. If you're going to have guns, FPS is the way to go IMO.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
In a MMORPG there is progression. I think it would be difficult to put in any meaningful progression a shooting game. What "classes" would there be and what abilities would you give them without looking ridiculous? Remember this would be based off a real life time period so I don't think you would be snaring people and tanking .. healing. There couldn't be any tanks or healers .. where would group strategy come in? Everyone just shooting? I think it would work for a massive fps game but that is it .. nothing persistant.
There were plenty of Doctors back then. A plausible healing system could be done with bandages and whiskey. Course there's always cauterizing the wound too.
Scars as involuntary customization!
I know! Talk about character customization. And not limited to just the character creation at the beginning.
I think I'd have it so that the guy that drew second, if he killed the guy the law wouldn't be after him. If the guy who drew first won, then yeah, the law dogs would be after him. Course, if we are going "hardcore", once you go down the path of the lawless, there is no going back. Since an item like jail time, where a character would have to sit in jail real time to do time for the crime, wouldn't be implemented, well, then, you go bad, you stay bad. KOS in all town with lawmen and KOS to every law abiding character.
I'd even go so far as no "bad guy" cities. The lawless would have to truly live off their victims. Multiple accounts per server, but if one character on your account goes bad, they all get the stigma. No buying ammo or supplies with a "good character" and dropping the supplies off in the wilds so you can log in with your outlaw and get them.
Sorry I miss typed it, I agree with you, that was my idea.... Draw second and win, you get rewarded... Draw first and win, the law is after you unless you have a justifiable reason.
Native Americans.... All, you, have, to, do, is, portray, them, realistically. THATS IT. Native Americans want to be respected, if they're not made realistically, then they'd get angry. If they are? No "serious" problems.
And if you have read any of the literature, historical debate or recent writings on or from them you should know that there is nothing even vaguely resembling a concesus of what that "realistic" portrayal would be...which is why it's a virtual impossibility for a gaming company.
As for the FPS thing, it really just doesn't work unless there is no pvp or no consequences to dying. There are just too many things that can mess up a "twitch" based game for most people to accept it. Latency, lag, lost packets, computer hiccups, differing server locations and relay distances etc. Players deal with that in games like WW2O because there is NO permanence to the character and no real loss, they won't in a game with permanent character progression unless there is no downside to losing.
However there are lots of non-class based systems which could work and plenty of non-twitch combat options without falling back on the EQ standard press auto-attack or the current craze of special manuever wheels and trays with cooldowns.
I can see it now, a truly sandbox wild west MMO. Why limit it to reputation? Why not have the ability to run your own town in the Wild West?
Here's my pitch for a Wild West MMO...
Player Built Cities
Very in depth, you can open your own barbershop, Butcher shop, hotel or casino and rake in the cash. In the beginning all there would be is maybe an NPC town and guilds gathering enough resources to build their own city and stake claim.
Trade Routes
There would be the ability to build trains, connect cities to one another, travel from one city to the next with a wagon, be wary though, you could get hijacked, hire guards to protect your loot. Your town might have the biggest gold mine around but that town next to you has the coal you need!
FPSMMO
We don't need mobs, just scenerios really. How silly would the Wild West look if you were sent on a quest to kill 10 Wolves. You are going to hunt them down with your revolver? Or you just farmed experience by killing the loitering level 5 Thieves outside of town? It wouldn't work. Don't use auto aim like in Tabula Rasa either, just point and shoot like counter strike.
Specialize
You could focus on more fighting power, be a guard, mercenary or bandit. Or you could focus on professionalism such as Doctor, Businessman or Carpenter! All the way up to financing yourself with your skill at poker! Why fight and risk losing your life if you could hire others to do it for you?
Health System
Ok, I've been mortally wounded by that wolf I was killing. Just let me sit down for a few moments and I'll be good as new in 10 seconds! Ahh yes... I'm completely fine! Why not be innovative here? If you get shot in the leg you need a Doctor! Not only that but your run speed isn't going to be too great is it?
Reputation System
With more reputation, you can exert more power, high enough and you can apply for that local sherriff position! You'd be more valued at whatever you did. If you gained most of your reputation guarding trains, guess what? You could ask for a bigger salary, or get hired to guard more valuable assets. Be warned though, the more reputation you have the more someone else is going to want to hunt you down, and the more money they'll get if they succeed too!
Bounty System
You can place your own bounties on players. Whether they might be competition for your business or it's personal revenge. Go to the local Bounty Hunter meeting place and you'll just need to stick a picture on the wall and REWARD $1,000 underneath. Someone is bound to attempt to take them out if it's worth the difficulty!
ALTERNATIVE
This type of MMO can always be done in the same way Eve was done. Simply have countless towns, possibly named after current towns and historic locations. In the east you'd have "High Sec", and the further you got west it would become "Low Sec" and finally 0 sec! Basically just Eve, Wild West style.
Interesting idea to be sure. I think a Weird West setting would have more appeal but a brave developer could try for a more historical setting.
It would be interesting to see how Guilds would develop in such a game.
Since guilds will always form in a MMO, it would be helpful to have a form of Factions - Territory Government and Outlaws.
Guild aligned as Outlaws would just be roaming bands of banditos and robbers and such.
Guilds aligned with the Territory Government would be like patrolling calvavry units or marshal gangs or such and permitted access to gear like matching uniforms etc.
Without such some system of factions, all guilds would just be roaming outlaw bands. That's more of a post-apocalytic setting rather than a classic Old West setting IMO
Besides how cool would it be to play as a small group that runs into a large band of bandits, flee from them and then have a calvary guild show up? lol
a mmo with guns without manual aiming would be awful. twitch mmos are slowly emerging, as technology improves hopefully there will be a cool western mmo.
they should just make a gunslinger mmo. be like a cross between western and post apolcalyptic.
But still, how fast someone draws, is based on their reflexes, not some statistical modifier and die roll.
You lost even much more as very few MMO players want combat based on reflexes.
There's a thing that's missing in a western MMO it's monters. Players will be bored pretty fast to kill humans, wolves and serpents only.
But I agree it could be a Fun Game.
Perhaps, but in my opinion, we've seen that gun-based RPG games have a tough time catching on. See case Tabula Rasa. If you make this a pure PRG in that sense of the word, I think it's just in that grey area where it could be so much neater. If you're going to have guns, FPS is the way to go IMO.
Tabula Rasa was a heap of steaming..well, leave it at that, with or without guns. The game itself was the failure.
Look at a game like AO, it had guns and it ran well for quite awhile.
Also lets see how something like Huxly works out.
I honestly think that a wild west game could be great, I am a fan of RPG and FPS, and I know they will have a suitable combonation eventually.
But still, how fast someone draws, is based on their reflexes, not some statistical modifier and die roll.
You lost even much more as very few MMO players want combat based on reflexes.
There's a thing that's missing in a western MMO it's monters. Players will be bored pretty fast to kill humans, wolves and serpents only.
But I agree it could be a Fun Game.
Perhaps, but in my opinion, we've seen that gun-based RPG games have a tough time catching on. See case Tabula Rasa. If you make this a pure PRG in that sense of the word, I think it's just in that grey area where it could be so much neater. If you're going to have guns, FPS is the way to go IMO.
Tabula Rasa was a heap of steaming..well, leave it at that, with or without guns. The game itself was the failure.
Look at a game like AO, it had guns and it ran well for quite awhile.
Also lets see how something like Huxly works out.
I honestly think that a wild west game could be great, I am a fan of RPG and FPS, and I know they will have a suitable combonation eventually.
Doesn't Planetside have a small following too?
TR had its problems, but the whole "FPS-like RPG experience" I think is what really turned people off at a core level. The game wasn't a gem, but lesser games have made it further.
Huxley and Planetside, as well as The Agency should give us a better idea of what an FPS/MMO can do. I think as far as this particular idea is concerned, I was thinking much closer to The Agency than Planetside, which to me is just "too open."
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Danas' reputation idea is a good idea, higher rep to permit you to take on those more impressive events but it'll prompt more 'heat' as others attempt to feed on your rep and earn a 'name' for themselves. And a note to the poster who mentioned the high death rate... 'Billy the Kid' was an infamous bloke yet only has 21 kills to his record, I'm sure this wasn't counting those that history either missed or didn't care about (sorry to any mexicans & chinese in his path), but its still not a huge number compared with the number possible in a day of mmo play. Hence most gun-fights can end with everyone alive(ish). Of course we need to have a greater cost than just rep, else it'll be a free-for-all, with bullets flying everywhere. The apparent imperritive for KOS status can be linked to the rep system, hence you'll only be 'spotted' if you create a big enough disturbance or your high enough rep given the skill of the local law-folk; this links to the EVEesk security sectors, hence more developed locations can have a positive modifier to the lawfolks ability to red-flag lower rep criminal types, and so enable the KOS. Without the 'permission' of the law you will be restricted from firing on each other unless you're willing to accept that you'll be gaining a rep and not a good one. I think this means you can have two reps added together a good and a bad, hence doing a lot of 'bad' things will earn you name as an infamous criminal, but doing a lot of 'good' can still result in a famous name. And high rep either godd/bad or a combination of the two would be used for 'quest' access.
The FPS sounds reasonable, but I think some measure of character skill should be incorporated into combat, perhaps permitting faster response to a 'fire' command, as well as faster reloading. A 'gun shake' ideas already been mentioned, as has the ability to zoom in- with both zoom factor and zoom rate. Hence some could be better at slower but more accurate shots, while others are more reliant upon shooting from the hip. I imagine some degree of improved 'bullet dodge' would mitigate the worst shots and so reduce the amount of time spent being patched up... not quite as realistic, but who wants to spend all their time hiding and even running from cover to cover (no matter how sensible), its supposed to be a sterotype of the wild west rather than the real thing. This resilience can be developed with different character styles having different rationals for such resilience, eg: grizzled mountain men simply shrugging off puny pistol rounds, while experienced gun-slingers just seem to stand in the right place at the right time. Of course to maintain the idea of a kid shooting down the big name we cant make this resilience as effective as the difference in capabilties experienced upon many mmos... a difficult one to judge.
As for the arguement for/against a wider race base, I'd simply say: sure why not permit a much wider set of player models, but I wouldn't get caught up on trying to model every potential culture, if possible- I'd love it, but lets face it, we want a game thats pretty good today (and may sire a great many potentially better clones) rather than waiting for that super game that never seems to arrive (someone please prove me wrong).
a friend of mine made up a DnD campaign based on Oregon Trail.
it was AWESOME! Amish was a race and classes were Banker, Snake Oil Peddler etc... Farmers were the tanks, and the skill Farmer's Tan allowed them to absorb some damage.
there wasn't any magic. altho i see an appeal in mixing fantasy elements and magic with the wild west, i think the current market is ready to distance themselves from that. (anyone remember Wild ARMS 3?)
Oregon was an entire continent, ready to be explo(red)(ited)(ded).
anyway, THIS article is really focused on the whole outlaw thing and i would want to see the scope widened. i dont want to be limited to either robbing trains or, uh... killing people trying to rob trains...
alot of folks would be content to pan for gold or fur trap, slap their goods on a burro, and build a trade empire... ya know, eventually build and own a railroad or two?
a friend of mine made up a DnD campaign based on Oregon Trail.
it was AWESOME! Amish was a race and classes were Banker, Snake Oil Peddler etc... Farmers were the tanks, and the skill Farmer's Tan allowed them to absorb some damage. there wasn't any magic. altho i see an appeal in mixing fantasy elements and magic with the wild west, i think the current market is ready to distance themselves from that. (anyone remember Wild ARMS 3?) Oregon was an entire continent, ready to be explo(red)(ited)(ded).
anyway, THIS article is really focused on the whole outlaw thing and i would want to see the scope widened. i dont want to be limited to either robbing trains or, uh... killing people trying to rob trains... alot of folks would be content to pan for gold or fur trap, slap their goods on a burro, and build a trade empire... ya know, eventually build and own a railroad or two?
True points. I was trying to stay under 1200 words
I would envision both the outlaw and lawman track, but also the trader, crafter, explorer types as well. I also kind of glossed over the PvP aspects. Honestly, I wasn't thinking 100% open PvP everywhere, but more akin to levels of PvP available depending on who you are, who they are and where you are. More similar to say Old UO.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
One of these days I am going to get off my behind and finish putting down all of my ideas from my experience in MMO's/RPG's/FPS games and do a kinda work sheet on what elements a MMO is going to need. Then sell it. Because I know I don't have the ability to build it myself.
But back to topic.....One of my biggest things about current MMO's is that the community is way too big. You don't know, or get to know anyone. In the early days Meridian59 had like 300 people on a server at it's peak. When you logged on and said hello in the OOC channel, people responded, and you have played with most of them for a long time.
So I am wondering....with the wild west theme, can we have player built towns seperated enough that it actually took a lot of effort to get from one town to the next. This would build small communities. These communities would most likely help eachother build up the town to defend it from outlaws, indians, etc...
This was the best column done in *years* at MMORPG.com - well thought out and it presented a concept that could be gold if the right developer picked it up.
I always wanted a wild west mmo,instead of classes they would choose there profession,i.e Sherrif,blacksmtih,barman,outlaw etc etc and then find a town were there trade was needed,it could then take on a life of its own(the way mmo's should). Quests could be any manner of thing but even say a barman could join posse's to hunt down outlaws etc....tbh it could be endless what you could fit into a game of this type,though with no mage running in and nuking everyone is there a dev willing to take this on?
Man, it's funny how people come up with the same ideas. This is posted from a file on my HD titled "Wild West MMO" that I was kicking around ideas for a couple years ago:
Wild West MMO
Tycoon class, not much for combat, but the only ones who can run guilds, build financial empires, etc.
Gunfighter/Thug/Whatever, the ones who battle it out for resourses/rights/etc. on behalf of the Tycoons. Paid a salary when employed.
Lawmen, stop the thugs, mess with Tycoons, etc. Bounty Hunter would be a subclass
Skinner/Mountain man, resource gatherer with combat ability
Doc, medic with combat ability
Miner, resource gatherer with combat ability
Railroads take you between servers, and are player created and owned (AI operated). Require lots of resources to build, and a partner on the other end.
Stagecoach lines travel between zones, and are player created and owned (AI operated).
I have always thought a game like this would work very well. The way it has been laid out in the article is extremeley well done, and has possibility.
Sandbox with the ability to fight in town to an extent. Like the ability t play cards as a mini game in a saloon with other players, and you catch a racally varmint cheating you could shoot him at the table, or go outside for a duel in the street. If you shoot a guy at the table you have to get out of town because you have a timer where AI Law enforcment is comming for you, as well as law type / abiding players..
Very well thought out and written article.
And again, I cant stress this enough.. the mustache customization.. nuff said.
Originally posted by sudsboy Railroads take you between servers, and are player created and owned (AI operated). Require lots of resources to build, and a partner on the other end.
This line right here might get you in trouble with the Chinese...didn't they get forced to build most of the railroads back then? So far we run the risk of upsetting three "minorities" and thats before we even discuss Mexico.
Originally posted by sudsboy Railroads take you between servers, and are player created and owned (AI operated). Require lots of resources to build, and a partner on the other end.
This line right here might get you in trouble with the Chinese...didn't they get forced to build most of the railroads back then? So far we run the risk of upsetting three "minorities" and thats before we even discuss Mexico.
I think it's a non-issue if you're collecting resources, then turning it in to some kind of claims office or whatever. It's not like you have to put little guys in game building the thing. Even if you wanted to do that, who says you can't make everything a mixture of races and sexes? Frankly, I think a game inspired by history would do better and have more license for creativity than a historical recreation game.
All of these ideas kinda sound like an Eve Online setup with avatars in the old west. Pretty intriguing. A pity forum posters would have a hard time raising capital, putting a team together, and making this game. It would be a fun one.
In a MMORPG there is progression. I think it would be difficult to put in any meaningful progression a shooting game. What "classes" would there be and what abilities would you give them without looking ridiculous? Remember this would be based off a real life time period so I don't think you would be snaring people and tanking .. healing. There couldn't be any tanks or healers .. where would group strategy come in? Everyone just shooting? I think it would work for a massive fps game but that is it .. nothing persistant.
Progression would be the reputation of your Char, the NPCs would start to offer you bigger and better jobs or contracts.
Classes? No need for classes. Skills would be the way to go. Off the top of my head skill list.
Horse riding
Duel pistols
Rifles
Shotguns
reload - pistols
reload - rifles
reload - shotugns
accuracy - pistols
accuracy - rifles
accuracy - shotguns
speed draw - pistols
speed draw - rilfes
Med wounds - healer type - heal gun shot wounds
gunsmith
ammo smith
leathersmith - saddles, bags, ect
Whiskey making
Drinking
Leadership
Short list off the top of my head
Still with the stuff you mentioned how would put together a strategic raid without it just being shoot it or in pvp raids ... people just shoot each other .. with no healing crowd control strategy would be out the window .. it would be just a big shoot em up .... I don't see how far that could go.
In a MMORPG there is progression. I think it would be difficult to put in any meaningful progression a shooting game. What "classes" would there be and what abilities would you give them without looking ridiculous? Remember this would be based off a real life time period so I don't think you would be snaring people and tanking .. healing. There couldn't be any tanks or healers .. where would group strategy come in? Everyone just shooting? I think it would work for a massive fps game but that is it .. nothing persistant.
Heck, if you wanted to you could even allow perma death, with your new character using the same last name (kinda like TR) and retaining your possessions. That certainly would make the feel of the game interesting, but I don't know if enough people would go for it. Maybe eventually, people would ban together to gun down the "mad dog" types and civilization would start to come to the West.
Man, I'm totally wishing I was playing this game right now
Comments
You lost even much more as very few MMO players want combat based on reflexes.
There's a thing that's missing in a western MMO it's monters. Players will be bored pretty fast to kill humans, wolves and serpents only.
But I agree it could be a Fun Game.
Perhaps, but in my opinion, we've seen that gun-based RPG games have a tough time catching on. See case Tabula Rasa. If you make this a pure PRG in that sense of the word, I think it's just in that grey area where it could be so much neater. If you're going to have guns, FPS is the way to go IMO.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
There were plenty of Doctors back then. A plausible healing system could be done with bandages and whiskey. Course there's always cauterizing the wound too.
Scars as involuntary customization!
I know! Talk about character customization. And not limited to just the character creation at the beginning.
@TdogSkal
I think I'd have it so that the guy that drew second, if he killed the guy the law wouldn't be after him. If the guy who drew first won, then yeah, the law dogs would be after him. Course, if we are going "hardcore", once you go down the path of the lawless, there is no going back. Since an item like jail time, where a character would have to sit in jail real time to do time for the crime, wouldn't be implemented, well, then, you go bad, you stay bad. KOS in all town with lawmen and KOS to every law abiding character.
I'd even go so far as no "bad guy" cities. The lawless would have to truly live off their victims. Multiple accounts per server, but if one character on your account goes bad, they all get the stigma. No buying ammo or supplies with a "good character" and dropping the supplies off in the wilds so you can log in with your outlaw and get them.
Sorry I miss typed it, I agree with you, that was my idea.... Draw second and win, you get rewarded... Draw first and win, the law is after you unless you have a justifiable reason.
Sooner or Later
And if you have read any of the literature, historical debate or recent writings on or from them you should know that there is nothing even vaguely resembling a concesus of what that "realistic" portrayal would be...which is why it's a virtual impossibility for a gaming company.
As for the FPS thing, it really just doesn't work unless there is no pvp or no consequences to dying. There are just too many things that can mess up a "twitch" based game for most people to accept it. Latency, lag, lost packets, computer hiccups, differing server locations and relay distances etc. Players deal with that in games like WW2O because there is NO permanence to the character and no real loss, they won't in a game with permanent character progression unless there is no downside to losing.
However there are lots of non-class based systems which could work and plenty of non-twitch combat options without falling back on the EQ standard press auto-attack or the current craze of special manuever wheels and trays with cooldowns.
Sometimes I wonder if Deadlands has ever been considered as a base for an MMORPG. The tabletop game owns and I see a lot of potential here.
I can see it now, a truly sandbox wild west MMO. Why limit it to reputation? Why not have the ability to run your own town in the Wild West?
Here's my pitch for a Wild West MMO...
Player Built Cities
Very in depth, you can open your own barbershop, Butcher shop, hotel or casino and rake in the cash. In the beginning all there would be is maybe an NPC town and guilds gathering enough resources to build their own city and stake claim.
Trade Routes
There would be the ability to build trains, connect cities to one another, travel from one city to the next with a wagon, be wary though, you could get hijacked, hire guards to protect your loot. Your town might have the biggest gold mine around but that town next to you has the coal you need!
FPSMMO
We don't need mobs, just scenerios really. How silly would the Wild West look if you were sent on a quest to kill 10 Wolves. You are going to hunt them down with your revolver? Or you just farmed experience by killing the loitering level 5 Thieves outside of town? It wouldn't work. Don't use auto aim like in Tabula Rasa either, just point and shoot like counter strike.
Specialize
You could focus on more fighting power, be a guard, mercenary or bandit. Or you could focus on professionalism such as Doctor, Businessman or Carpenter! All the way up to financing yourself with your skill at poker! Why fight and risk losing your life if you could hire others to do it for you?
Health System
Ok, I've been mortally wounded by that wolf I was killing. Just let me sit down for a few moments and I'll be good as new in 10 seconds! Ahh yes... I'm completely fine! Why not be innovative here? If you get shot in the leg you need a Doctor! Not only that but your run speed isn't going to be too great is it?
Reputation System
With more reputation, you can exert more power, high enough and you can apply for that local sherriff position! You'd be more valued at whatever you did. If you gained most of your reputation guarding trains, guess what? You could ask for a bigger salary, or get hired to guard more valuable assets. Be warned though, the more reputation you have the more someone else is going to want to hunt you down, and the more money they'll get if they succeed too!
Bounty System
You can place your own bounties on players. Whether they might be competition for your business or it's personal revenge. Go to the local Bounty Hunter meeting place and you'll just need to stick a picture on the wall and REWARD $1,000 underneath. Someone is bound to attempt to take them out if it's worth the difficulty!
ALTERNATIVE
This type of MMO can always be done in the same way Eve was done. Simply have countless towns, possibly named after current towns and historic locations. In the east you'd have "High Sec", and the further you got west it would become "Low Sec" and finally 0 sec! Basically just Eve, Wild West style.
Interesting idea to be sure. I think a Weird West setting would have more appeal but a brave developer could try for a more historical setting.
It would be interesting to see how Guilds would develop in such a game.
Since guilds will always form in a MMO, it would be helpful to have a form of Factions - Territory Government and Outlaws.
Guild aligned as Outlaws would just be roaming bands of banditos and robbers and such.
Guilds aligned with the Territory Government would be like patrolling calvavry units or marshal gangs or such and permitted access to gear like matching uniforms etc.
Without such some system of factions, all guilds would just be roaming outlaw bands. That's more of a post-apocalytic setting rather than a classic Old West setting IMO
Besides how cool would it be to play as a small group that runs into a large band of bandits, flee from them and then have a calvary guild show up? lol
a mmo with guns without manual aiming would be awful. twitch mmos are slowly emerging, as technology improves hopefully there will be a cool western mmo.
they should just make a gunslinger mmo. be like a cross between western and post apolcalyptic.
My blog:
I think The Dark Tower could make for a great MMO.
"The series incorporates themes from multiple genres, including fantasy fiction, science fantasy, horror and western elements."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Tower_(series)
www.stephenking.com/DarkTower/
Sorry, but I'm not smart enough to make nice links.
You lost even much more as very few MMO players want combat based on reflexes.
There's a thing that's missing in a western MMO it's monters. Players will be bored pretty fast to kill humans, wolves and serpents only.
But I agree it could be a Fun Game.
Perhaps, but in my opinion, we've seen that gun-based RPG games have a tough time catching on. See case Tabula Rasa. If you make this a pure PRG in that sense of the word, I think it's just in that grey area where it could be so much neater. If you're going to have guns, FPS is the way to go IMO.
Tabula Rasa was a heap of steaming..well, leave it at that, with or without guns. The game itself was the failure.
Look at a game like AO, it had guns and it ran well for quite awhile.
Also lets see how something like Huxly works out.
I honestly think that a wild west game could be great, I am a fan of RPG and FPS, and I know they will have a suitable combonation eventually.
Doesn't Planetside have a small following too?
Not so nice guy!
You lost even much more as very few MMO players want combat based on reflexes.
There's a thing that's missing in a western MMO it's monters. Players will be bored pretty fast to kill humans, wolves and serpents only.
But I agree it could be a Fun Game.
Perhaps, but in my opinion, we've seen that gun-based RPG games have a tough time catching on. See case Tabula Rasa. If you make this a pure PRG in that sense of the word, I think it's just in that grey area where it could be so much neater. If you're going to have guns, FPS is the way to go IMO.
Tabula Rasa was a heap of steaming..well, leave it at that, with or without guns. The game itself was the failure.
Look at a game like AO, it had guns and it ran well for quite awhile.
Also lets see how something like Huxly works out.
I honestly think that a wild west game could be great, I am a fan of RPG and FPS, and I know they will have a suitable combonation eventually.
Doesn't Planetside have a small following too?
TR had its problems, but the whole "FPS-like RPG experience" I think is what really turned people off at a core level. The game wasn't a gem, but lesser games have made it further.
Huxley and Planetside, as well as The Agency should give us a better idea of what an FPS/MMO can do. I think as far as this particular idea is concerned, I was thinking much closer to The Agency than Planetside, which to me is just "too open."
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Danas' reputation idea is a good idea, higher rep to permit you to take on those more impressive events but it'll prompt more 'heat' as others attempt to feed on your rep and earn a 'name' for themselves. And a note to the poster who mentioned the high death rate... 'Billy the Kid' was an infamous bloke yet only has 21 kills to his record, I'm sure this wasn't counting those that history either missed or didn't care about (sorry to any mexicans & chinese in his path), but its still not a huge number compared with the number possible in a day of mmo play. Hence most gun-fights can end with everyone alive(ish). Of course we need to have a greater cost than just rep, else it'll be a free-for-all, with bullets flying everywhere. The apparent imperritive for KOS status can be linked to the rep system, hence you'll only be 'spotted' if you create a big enough disturbance or your high enough rep given the skill of the local law-folk; this links to the EVEesk security sectors, hence more developed locations can have a positive modifier to the lawfolks ability to red-flag lower rep criminal types, and so enable the KOS. Without the 'permission' of the law you will be restricted from firing on each other unless you're willing to accept that you'll be gaining a rep and not a good one. I think this means you can have two reps added together a good and a bad, hence doing a lot of 'bad' things will earn you name as an infamous criminal, but doing a lot of 'good' can still result in a famous name. And high rep either godd/bad or a combination of the two would be used for 'quest' access.
The FPS sounds reasonable, but I think some measure of character skill should be incorporated into combat, perhaps permitting faster response to a 'fire' command, as well as faster reloading. A 'gun shake' ideas already been mentioned, as has the ability to zoom in- with both zoom factor and zoom rate. Hence some could be better at slower but more accurate shots, while others are more reliant upon shooting from the hip. I imagine some degree of improved 'bullet dodge' would mitigate the worst shots and so reduce the amount of time spent being patched up... not quite as realistic, but who wants to spend all their time hiding and even running from cover to cover (no matter how sensible), its supposed to be a sterotype of the wild west rather than the real thing. This resilience can be developed with different character styles having different rationals for such resilience, eg: grizzled mountain men simply shrugging off puny pistol rounds, while experienced gun-slingers just seem to stand in the right place at the right time. Of course to maintain the idea of a kid shooting down the big name we cant make this resilience as effective as the difference in capabilties experienced upon many mmos... a difficult one to judge.
As for the arguement for/against a wider race base, I'd simply say: sure why not permit a much wider set of player models, but I wouldn't get caught up on trying to model every potential culture, if possible- I'd love it, but lets face it, we want a game thats pretty good today (and may sire a great many potentially better clones) rather than waiting for that super game that never seems to arrive (someone please prove me wrong).
a friend of mine made up a DnD campaign based on Oregon Trail.
it was AWESOME! Amish was a race and classes were Banker, Snake Oil Peddler etc... Farmers were the tanks, and the skill Farmer's Tan allowed them to absorb some damage.
there wasn't any magic. altho i see an appeal in mixing fantasy elements and magic with the wild west, i think the current market is ready to distance themselves from that. (anyone remember Wild ARMS 3?)
Oregon was an entire continent, ready to be explo(red)(ited)(ded).
anyway, THIS article is really focused on the whole outlaw thing and i would want to see the scope widened. i dont want to be limited to either robbing trains or, uh... killing people trying to rob trains...
alot of folks would be content to pan for gold or fur trap, slap their goods on a burro, and build a trade empire... ya know, eventually build and own a railroad or two?
True points. I was trying to stay under 1200 words
I would envision both the outlaw and lawman track, but also the trader, crafter, explorer types as well. I also kind of glossed over the PvP aspects. Honestly, I wasn't thinking 100% open PvP everywhere, but more akin to levels of PvP available depending on who you are, who they are and where you are. More similar to say Old UO.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
I am still hoping Superstition Studios is working on a Deadlands MMORPG.
Just the mustache customization alone.. Oh the possibilities.
One of these days I am going to get off my behind and finish putting down all of my ideas from my experience in MMO's/RPG's/FPS games and do a kinda work sheet on what elements a MMO is going to need. Then sell it. Because I know I don't have the ability to build it myself.
But back to topic.....One of my biggest things about current MMO's is that the community is way too big. You don't know, or get to know anyone. In the early days Meridian59 had like 300 people on a server at it's peak. When you logged on and said hello in the OOC channel, people responded, and you have played with most of them for a long time.
So I am wondering....with the wild west theme, can we have player built towns seperated enough that it actually took a lot of effort to get from one town to the next. This would build small communities. These communities would most likely help eachother build up the town to defend it from outlaws, indians, etc...
Not so nice guy!
This was the best column done in *years* at MMORPG.com - well thought out and it presented a concept that could be gold if the right developer picked it up.
Thanks for renewing my faith Dana!
Man, it's funny how people come up with the same ideas. This is posted from a file on my HD titled "Wild West MMO" that I was kicking around ideas for a couple years ago:
Wild West MMO
Tycoon class, not much for combat, but the only ones who can run guilds, build financial empires, etc.
Gunfighter/Thug/Whatever, the ones who battle it out for resourses/rights/etc. on behalf of the Tycoons. Paid a salary when employed.
Lawmen, stop the thugs, mess with Tycoons, etc. Bounty Hunter would be a subclass
Skinner/Mountain man, resource gatherer with combat ability
Doc, medic with combat ability
Miner, resource gatherer with combat ability
Railroads take you between servers, and are player created and owned (AI operated). Require lots of resources to build, and a partner on the other end.
Stagecoach lines travel between zones, and are player created and owned (AI operated).
I have always thought a game like this would work very well. The way it has been laid out in the article is extremeley well done, and has possibility.
Sandbox with the ability to fight in town to an extent. Like the ability t play cards as a mini game in a saloon with other players, and you catch a racally varmint cheating you could shoot him at the table, or go outside for a duel in the street. If you shoot a guy at the table you have to get out of town because you have a timer where AI Law enforcment is comming for you, as well as law type / abiding players..
Very well thought out and written article.
And again, I cant stress this enough.. the mustache customization.. nuff said.
This line right here might get you in trouble with the Chinese...didn't they get forced to build most of the railroads back then? So far we run the risk of upsetting three "minorities" and thats before we even discuss Mexico.
Not so nice guy!
This line right here might get you in trouble with the Chinese...didn't they get forced to build most of the railroads back then? So far we run the risk of upsetting three "minorities" and thats before we even discuss Mexico.
I think it's a non-issue if you're collecting resources, then turning it in to some kind of claims office or whatever. It's not like you have to put little guys in game building the thing. Even if you wanted to do that, who says you can't make everything a mixture of races and sexes? Frankly, I think a game inspired by history would do better and have more license for creativity than a historical recreation game.
All of these ideas kinda sound like an Eve Online setup with avatars in the old west. Pretty intriguing. A pity forum posters would have a hard time raising capital, putting a team together, and making this game. It would be a fun one.
Progression would be the reputation of your Char, the NPCs would start to offer you bigger and better jobs or contracts.
Classes? No need for classes. Skills would be the way to go. Off the top of my head skill list.
Horse riding
Duel pistols
Rifles
Shotguns
reload - pistols
reload - rifles
reload - shotugns
accuracy - pistols
accuracy - rifles
accuracy - shotguns
speed draw - pistols
speed draw - rilfes
Med wounds - healer type - heal gun shot wounds
gunsmith
ammo smith
leathersmith - saddles, bags, ect
Whiskey making
Drinking
Leadership
Short list off the top of my head
Still with the stuff you mentioned how would put together a strategic raid without it just being shoot it or in pvp raids ... people just shoot each other .. with no healing crowd control strategy would be out the window .. it would be just a big shoot em up .... I don't see how far that could go.
I would play a Wildwest MMO, but only if it was set in the historical real Wild West.
Heck, if you wanted to you could even allow perma death, with your new character using the same last name (kinda like TR) and retaining your possessions. That certainly would make the feel of the game interesting, but I don't know if enough people would go for it. Maybe eventually, people would ban together to gun down the "mad dog" types and civilization would start to come to the West.
Man, I'm totally wishing I was playing this game right now