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PvP becomes appealing to me through my PvE achievements
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You're so far off the mark with this, but thanks for your comments.
The problem is he's not that far off the mark with complaining about you doing well in pvp after doing only pve.
Your saying that pvp becomes appealing to you because its a way to see how you've progressed in pve. Now if you were getting your ass beat because pvp gives the same rewards you wouldn't be here saying this. Most of the people who are going to flame you are the guys who couldn't/ didn't want to pve but do it for the rewards and hate having to conform to your playing style.
When you have pvp and pve rewards they will always be competing. One of them will win by being less of a time sink or one of them will win by giving better gear.
Wow is a terrible example because gear>skill 9/10. I know its changed alot but when I played pvp gear was never equal to raid gear in terms of time sunk getting it and the rewards for it.
Having them intermingled works best for me. It just seems stupid that a sword suddenly is worthless against a player, when I just killed a dragon with it. My character should be stronger with better gear against everything I face, regardless of how I obtain it. Just make gear obtainable through different modes of play and everyone SHOULD be happy. If the skill and decision making of the player has a big enough impact in the fight, than the system works. IN the end, we're still talking RPGs here and STATS should mean something. If they don't, I'd rather be playing COD4, CS or an online FPS with better gameplay, better graphics, better stability and better environents. Everything you do in a MMO should influence everything else in one way or another. At least thats what I find enjoyable. It makes the game world seem beleivable and immersive.
You didn't become godly at PvP, your gear did.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
The first MMO I was able to convince a friend to play with me, up to max level was Everquest 2 just after release.
Until that point, playing without friend I would just level to max and quit. A never ending rotation.
When we both played together and got to cap, we came to nearly the same conclusion as you in a PvE game. For as many people there are that claim to hate PvP, both of us said the same thing damn near finishing each others sentences, we were both 50 and in the best gear available at the time.
"Alright, we have this gear, now what?" Farming low level content isn't as appealing as it sounds when you are leveling (oh boy, I can't wait until we can two man this! It just isn't fun). We both wanted to go out and fight other players, similarly geared or not.
We sold our accounts (for good money, I was surprised EQ2 wasn't popular) and moved onto a PVP server in WoW. Got maxed out right before BWL was released and had the time of our life just doing world PvP. There was quite a bit of two shotting going on and with the gear we had fighting masses of people in blackrock mountain, the groups of ten coming in for an upper run. Sometimes being like OH F&(K, when you see the train of 40 on their way to MC or BWL that just rolls you.
Good times OP, now I've since quit WoW. It lost that epic world PvP that I so loved. Waita' get me all emotional.
There is nothing wrong with a mix of PvE and PvP per se. However some mixes are bad.
What youare describing, having the raid gear grind affect PvP significantly, is bad. It is a shallow and ultimately self-defeating design. It is only fun for you when you have uber gear. You are probably only medium good at PvP (good team work little else, a great PvP team has incredible teamwork and other things going for them). Alot of your fun comes from the feeling of power when you mop the floor with people.
This is not bad, it is simply not going to last or offer other people anything fun or meaningful. Only the top 10% will have fun and those guys will not have as much fun once they are not the top 10% which always happens fairly quicky. Anyone who has been part any raid scene in any game knows just how quickly a "world first" gets repeated by others.
Another bad paradigm is doing what WAR did and gating PvP via PvE grinds by having the Public Quests linked to campaign points and by having cock block geat sets be part of hte RvR boss fights. The other way around, having PvP gate a Darkness Falls mixed PvE/PvP dungeons seems to be OK.
Why is this the case? Why is what is good for the goos NOT good for the gander? Well if you think about it has already been answer by the OP. PvE can be planned and in fact the planning is part of the challenge/fun. You can plan to make a PvP push for Darkness Fall dungeon. You can plan out how you plan to do the PvE and watch for any PvP interference. But World PvP cannot be planned if you want a fight you never know whether it will be there or what, unless you get a battlegroudn scenario etc.
An interesting note here is that Aion seems to be following the Darkness Falls type paradigm, but on a zone wide scale, with the Abyss. I predict this will work pretty well. In some respects PvE tolerates a small amouint of of PvP interference much better than PvP tolerates PvE interference. PvP can really even add that certain elements of unpredictablness that PvE tends to lack in MMOs. MMOs have a problem when it comes to AI. Namely they have none. Once you get it down you get close to a 100% success rate. PvP interference can add an element of randomness. Of course if it brings your success rate down to 30% it will ruin the experience. But 80% success rate is actually better psychologically than 100% success rate even if you are "progressing" faster.
On the other hand adding PvE into PvP basically makes it more grindy and dull and just works against. This is one of WARs biggest flaws. Not understanding that this is not something you just throw into a pot and stir up. Having PvP enchance PvE can be good and maybe even make the PvE better. Although you must becareful as it can also make it unplayable for normal PvE players.
PvE type things can be used to enhance PvP, but it works completely different. You CAN gate a PvE dungeon with PvP. Most raider will work through that challenge to accomplish their goal. They will do all sorts of stupid things to get a raid boss and gleefully tell you they are stupid and part of the challenge You cannot gate a PvP scenario with PvE. Too many PvPers will tell you that is boring and not what they want. But you can add PvE mobs to balance out a PvP side, such as what happens in a WAR keep fight or in the Abyss with Aion where there is an NPC third faction.
Mixing the two is fine if done right. But throwing crap in a pot and stirring will more than likely simply ruion your game. You have to do it right and realize what you are trying to achieve. And you cannot let the main objective be ruined. If you have a PvE dungeon with PvP aspects to it. You have wasted your PvE design if all it ever is, is a PvP killing ground. Don't get me wrong some the of the shared dungeons fights in EQ2 PVP were awesome. But those became places where griefers just camped out and made the whole PvE aspects worthless most of the time. If something has significant dungeons crawl aspects to it you simply can't really design in to be a sort of raid progression type thing if PvPers are constantly running through it. You could make a dungeon with tons of NPCs and tons of PvPers but you should not make it a dungeon crawl and just make a PvP objective of some sort.
You could make such a thing a dungeon crawl. And occsionally or on off hours certain people will gear up for it. But you will have ruined it for the PvE-centic type people. If they only have 10% chance or getting what they want, depending on time of day, you will have ruined the entire progression aspect of their pleasure. Similarly if you have PvP stuff on raid lockout timers you will have ruined the instant and furious action many PvP players want.
There has been a big push in the last few years to try to reconcile the EQ/DIKU PvE with some kind of decent PvP. This started with DAOC but the big push came from WoW. But there seems to be very little understanding of the over-arching purpose of one versus the other. The two mechanics can mix to some degree and in certain ways. But the purpose of a dungeon crawl is completely contrary and not well suited to the purpose of PvP. Yes some PvE dungeons make excellent PvP battle grounds. And yes it could be a real accomplishment to finish a dungeons while constantly being hunted. But clearly a progressive dungeon crawl and a constant PvP hunt are at odds with each other. Some people say well that is part of the challenge. No it is not. That is like sayiong tying 10 pound wieghts to your arms is part of the challenge just because it makes your recactions slower. Sure its makes it harder but that is not the same thing. The problem is both of these cases are contrarty to the point of what they are doing. They are therefore frustrating due to the obvious counter-productiveness.
This has been the major failure point of PvE and PvP mixing. The devs often sabotage their own designs by forgetting what the point of something is and introducing something in a way that contradicts and then justifying it poorly. Or being in just plain denial.
Well said gestalt11. I'm glad I read your wall of text.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Many players will take the path of least resistance. In WoW, you can PvE with your guild and get PvP rewards. However, you can't get a nice PvP set and expect to get into an Ulduar raid. Why the double standard? I remember before the patch when PvP gear was on par if not better than PvE gear. What happened was you get 1/2 of your PvP team sitting idle the entire match, just to get the pvp gear so they could go raid. Imagine what would happen if you tried that in a PvE raid. Hell, you can't even buy PvP weapons anymore. You have to either have high arena rating or raid to get weapons that are worthwhile for PvP. How is that fair?
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
When I first got into World of Warcraft at launch I leveled up my character to a level 40 hunter. I enjoy every PvE centric game for the first month, then the content and repeated predictability and static nature of every computer controlled entity leaves me feeling safe, incomplete, bored.
I never thought of a PvE accomplishment against a coded entity to be a raid, but an overly glorified single-player rpg-style accomplishment with others within this static world; a mere extension of a single-player rpg with a server that handles many more players.
I never found there to be any more strategic accomplishment to PvE other than how do you find the weakness in the static and predictable nature of the human implemented code, that appears to be consistent from engagement to engagement and take advantage of it; payer vs code.
PvP isn’t for everyone by any means, but the static, linear, predictable, uncomplicated nature of PvE seems awfully unfulfilling and stale as opposed to an ecosystem that is literally alive with players that influence the nature of the game, its growth, the sense of safety and danger and accomplishment. Most people have held such a myopic view as to what the breadth and depth of pvp actually means by pigeonholing into this corner of one player(s) in combat only with another player(s).
But a game, not unlike some others, that can push the immersion envelope where I am actually escaping into another world that is free from the vast majority of predictability and computer controlled environments can push that envelope of the true meaning of dynamic and broadly implemented pvp as one that is all-encompassing, while complimented by PvE, but driven by players.
Im tired of the WoW, the scripted PvP of WAR, etc., but really look forward to an environmentally developed ecosystem with computer-controlled mobs that aren’t the central theme of an mmo, but are there to compliment and align with or combat against the player-driven environment of a game, that also enables fully free actions of players to sculpt the environment for good or evil. A really immersive and competitive and dynamic pvp game where trade, diplomacy, politics, city rule, region influence, resource gathering, crafting, adventuring, naval command, etc. is player vs player –and- player with player driven, with complimenting npc’s that don’t drive the game-play but play a background role.
This type of environment aint going to be for many players at all due to the relaxed and safe code-driven content and game-play of most other mmo's, I think.
That’s how I hope to enjoy my PvP.
MMOs should always integrate the PvE and PvP systems.
The reason that all the MMORPG these days are total shit is they aren't integrated anymore.
If you look at older games like EQ, you actually have a good system where nothing is instanced and you PvP other players to control zones & raid NPCs.
But look at a garbage game like WoW. Your raid are instanced, your BG and Arena are instanced too. It's really pointless. How does anyone find a game with loosely connected PvE and PvP enjoyable? it's mind boggling.
If the PvE and PvP are integrated then theres a stronger incentive to PvE. Because the more your guild PvEs, the stronger they become at PvP. So it keeps people competing. But they don't even have competition in games like WoW where everything is instanced. You just compete for worthless honor points with random people on random servers.
I wouldn't even consider WoW to have PvP in their game. I don't know how competing over worthless points is meaningful. The people you fight have no connection to your server, to your guild. They are just random people from the same battlegroup. I don't see the point in fighting people on different servers unless you are running a best of the best tournament or something. It's totally fucking irrelevant.
And btw, PvE only games are just plain boring. I don't know how anyone could tolerate blue servers in any game. Like, do you really enjoy killing NPCs over and over? When other players from diff guilds enter the mix, at least the game is fun. I remember playing EQ on a blue server and thinking, how the fuck do people play this shit? Then after going to a Zek server I realized that is the best setup for MMOs.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
IM going to take WoW out of the picture for a second and just talk abut something that bugs me in MMOs and your OP sparked this so here goes.
I Love games that give me the freedom to do what I want, how I want when I want.
I think a game should have just as much stuff do to as a pve guy than it does a pvp guy or a quest or crafting guy.
I think the stufff you achieve through your adventures should be good for everything.
Having to get pvp gear for pvp is limiting and limits suck ass!!!!! if i pvp and get gear that gear should be used for questing and raiding also and if I choose to farm that sword and pwnage in raid content I should beable to crack a bastard over the head with it in pvp.
Player limits are bullshit!
thanks for reading.
You are one clever poster! And you posted like 2nd in this thread. I don't know what to add to this- I agree 100%.
Guess I will highlight exactly what love about this post in green....
In EVE, I PVE for the 'money' I need for my ships to cover the initial costs. After that, if I die, I expect my Alliance to redeem my ship losses in PVP. Still, no matter how I get my money, I like that I can apply it for pve/pvp
Nice post. Yeah gamers do tend to just follow the carrots in games like this. The developer really needs to figure out how to get gamers to pursue these carrots in a meaningful way
Great argument you put forth there, genius.
It'd be nice if the WoW fanboys had some arguments, but the only thing they can say is "You're wrong, i'm right" basically.
Great argument you put forth there, genius.
It'd be nice if the WoW fanboys had some arguments, but the only thing they can say is "You're wrong, i'm right" basically.
How about this one? WOW's PvP mechanics completely destroy every other MMO out there currently. Thats what I find fun. Crisp responsive control. I don't need to OWN something, build something or gaurd something to have fun. If the fight is fun, its just fun. I don't NEED PvP to mean something to have fun in it. Besides, when playing on a PvP server it does MEAN something. It means the difference between questing and not questing, since you can force someone out of the zone you're in. If they can't kill anything they can't play and have to move elsewhere. How is that not meaningful? And battlegrounds and arenas CAN be fun, just like online FPSs can be fun. Its the same concept. By your logic, no one can possibly have fun playing COD4, because it doesn't MEAN anything? And guess what...that makes you WRONG, because you can't tell millions of people what fun is. They tell YOU what fun is! Good enough argument for you?
Great argument you put forth there, genius.
It'd be nice if the WoW fanboys had some arguments, but the only thing they can say is "You're wrong, i'm right" basically.
How about this one? WOW's PvP mechanics completely destroy every other MMO out there currently. Thats what I find fun. Crisp responsive control. I don't need to OWN something, build something or gaurd something to have fun. If the fight is fun, its just fun. I don't NEED PvP to mean something to have fun in it. Besides, when playing on a PvP server it does MEAN something. It means the difference between questing and not questing, since you can force someone out of the zone you're in. If they can't kill anything they can't play and have to move elsewhere. How is that not meaningful? And battlegrounds and arenas CAN be fun, just like online FPSs can be fun. Its the same concept. By your logic, no one can possibly have fun playing COD4, because it doesn't MEAN anything? And guess what...that makes you WRONG, because you can't tell millions of people what fun is. They tell YOU what fun is! Good enough argument for you?
PvP mechanics? What part of WoW's PvP system is good? The fact that PvP is dead in WoW, even on "PvP" servers? Or the fact thay you do the same instance over and over again and fight the same players over meaningless honor / AP?
You can force someone out of the zone you're in, in WoW? Are you serious? Did you play a PvP server? It's almost impossible to force someone out of a quest area, because they can just come back and rez. Because there is no death penalty in WoW, you have the same people coming back again and again. So how is that a fair PvP system? If someone dies, they should lose something. That way, if they think they can actually win, they will fight, but if not they will leave. But that doesn't happen in WoW, people just rez and attack you in the middle of a fight, and then the other person comes back and does the same. Pretty shitty system overall.
If you played a PvP server you would know how they work. Almost no one on the PvP servers actually participate in World PvP because it's so pointless. In fact, WoW is the kind of game where someone on the other team will attack you and your team mates will just keep grinding for exp. The people on PvP servers typically aren't PvPers, I honestly don't know why they are there.
You don't know what is fun, because you've probably only played carebear MMORPGs like WoW. If you played EQ, AC, or EVE, you would know what a real PvP system is. If WoW is anything, it's just a good timesink that has no almost no enjoyability. I don't see how anyone can play a game that doesn't have any PvP systems in it.
But yeah I seriously doubt you played a WoW PvP server. People just liked them because of the exp bonuses, but no one really PvPed. Why do you think Xenif was the world first 60? Think he PvPed? get real
Oh look, another obvious troll. Congrats! I played them all, UO on up. I was in WOW's closed beta. PLayed on Stormreaver when it went live on day 1. It sounds like you didn't even start playing for years, mentioning the whole EXP bonus thing. You're about 3 years behind the curve buddy=)
When I mention mechanics I mean control. The mechanics of the actual fight. How it plays out. WOW is as good as it gets for a MMO in how responsive everything is. Other MMOs have more meaning and purpose if you consider penalties meaningful, but to each his own. I won't respond to you again. You mentioned REAL PvP so I know where this is going.
You're a WOW hater, one of the cool d00ds. You have my deepest sympathies.
Oh look, another obvious troll. Congrats! I played them all, UO on up. I was in WOW's closed beta. PLayed on Stormreaver when it went live on day 1. It sounds like you didn't even start playing for years, mentioning the whole EXP bonus thing. You're about 3 years behind the curve buddy=)
When I mention mechanics I mean control. The mechanics of the actual fight. How it plays out. WOW is as good as it gets for a MMO in how responsive everything is. Other MMOs have more meaning and purpose if you consider penalties meaningful, but to each his own. I won't respond to you again. You mentioned REAL PvP so I know where this is going.
You're a WOW hater, one of the cool d00ds. You have my deepest sympathies.
3 years behind? I played wow since the beginning, on stormreaver, and anetheron. The game always sucked though. Unless you liked those pointless Tarren Mill battles that run 24 hours a day.
And lol at the PvP mechanics. Do you even know who are at the top of the Arena teams? Paladin DK combos. Yeah, great mechanics. Plus the fights are retarded, I mean who enjoys the garbage 1-shot kill PvP system in WoW? Mages etc. can take you from full to no hp in a second. Other classes have those kind of abilities too.
Their mechanics sucked so much they had to "balance PvP" by giving everyone good burn abilities. It's pretty rare for fights to last over 1-2 minutes in WoW. Usually they take 5-10 seconds. I don't think that is fun, especially coming from a game where fights last 20-30 minutes typically.
And nice job not responding to any of the other arguments.
Anyone who played & has beaten WoW hates it. Anyone who hasn't just is obsessed with it and will defend it to the death. What a joke
I love when PvP stands between you and your PvE progression.
That's what I loved about L2, the game is an unbearable grind for many, but for me, grinding was just a reason to meet enemies outside of the city, you wouldn't have so many fights if you didn't have to PvE that much and be exposed to it for hours and hours every day.
And then the epic bosses, where people would gather their biggest forces in order to get a mob killed, because they weren't the only ones who wanted to kill it.
I've been playing Aion lately and they've got this quest which involves talking to a raid boss that drops good stuff for the oppossite faction, loving it, like I love how they've placed rifts in front of the instances, so people can actually block you unless you beat them, that's the kind of PvP I enjoy, the PvP that matters.
The problem is he's not that far off the mark with complaining about you doing well in pvp after doing only pve.
Your saying that pvp becomes appealing to you because its a way to see how you've progressed in pve. Now if you were getting your ass beat because pvp gives the same rewards you wouldn't be here saying this. Most of the people who are going to flame you are the guys who couldn't/ didn't want to pve but do it for the rewards and hate having to conform to your playing style.
When you have pvp and pve rewards they will always be competing. One of them will win by being less of a time sink or one of them will win by giving better gear.
Wow is a terrible example because gear>skill 9/10. I know its changed alot but
when I played pvp gear was never equal to raid gear in terms of time sunk getting it and the rewards for it.
I hope you are saying that it took more time to get pvp gear than it did to get raiding gear....
Great argument you put forth there, genius.
It'd be nice if the WoW fanboys had some arguments, but the only thing they can say is "You're wrong, i'm right" basically.
How about this one? WOW's PvP mechanics completely destroy every other MMO out there currently. Thats what I find fun. Crisp responsive control. I don't need to OWN something, build something or gaurd something to have fun. If the fight is fun, its just fun. I don't NEED PvP to mean something to have fun in it. Besides, when playing on a PvP server it does MEAN something. It means the difference between questing and not questing, since you can force someone out of the zone you're in. If they can't kill anything they can't play and have to move elsewhere. How is that not meaningful? And battlegrounds and arenas CAN be fun, just like online FPSs can be fun. Its the same concept. By your logic, no one can possibly have fun playing COD4, because it doesn't MEAN anything? And guess what...that makes you WRONG, because you can't tell millions of people what fun is. They tell YOU what fun is! Good enough argument for you?
WTF are you talkkinga bout millions of people telling me what fun is?
I DECIDE WHATS FUN TO ME. Just because alot of people think its fun or dont think its fun doesnt really mean anything. I decide whats enjoyable FOR ME.
Are you one of those people that enjoys wow more because more people are playing it?
/sigh
It's not really that you have to work hard to get the good items. It's that you have to pour insane, almost dangerous ammounts of time into a game to get these items. That's when it aint fun.
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Real as Reality Television!!!
You are entitled to your idea of fun. My idea of fun specifically does not include the concept of "beating" the game. WoW and LotRO are fun for those of us who like them because we don't care about stats or playground dominance or having done every last thing in the game, least of all having gotten to anything first. It's two completely different mentalities. I find your outlook extremely tiresome, definitely not something I would pay to encounter over and over again in a game. I wonder if you guys ever consider that you ruined your own experience of WoW by being totally obsessed with dominance and PvP and control of other people's options. No? Okay, fine, go play something else. All the ad hominem attacks on "carebears" or whatever code for juvenile ideas of lack of toughness (often related to fear of homosexuals) you care to use doesn't affect the millions of people who never read this site and are having loads of fun every day. Your need to hate is kind of sad.
This is how gear should be in all MMO's.
1. Uber gear should not exist. There should not be a "Sword of Ultimate Pwnage" so that some kid can ... roll faces.
2. Gear should not take an excruciating long time to obtain via PvE or PvP. To me that isn't fun. I play MMO's because I like the combination of character development along with PvP battles. Player versus player combat is exciting while player versus environment fighting is monotonous.
3. Instead of adding an insane amount of damage or an insane amount of armor, gear should help aid in character development. Take guild wars for example. You want to be a warrior? Awesome. You can choose from several different weapon types. Swords, Axes, Hammers etc. And depending on your path you can equip gear that helps you boost your Sword play or what have you. Gear should help make your character unique by adding to your play style. And no...a Sword of Ultimate Pwnage that adds a shit ton of damage isn't a play style.
I'm not doing my third point enough justice with that warrior example. If you would like a pure example, check out Guild Wars. That game did PvP and gear correctly. The only thing that stopped me from playing the game was the small instanced pvp. Even the faction battlegrounds are too small in my opinion.
Every since D1 Blizzard's been making game where sweet loot was part of it's gaming systems. So all you crybabies callin foul should google what Blizzard's been doing for the last 15+ years. As far as PvP systems go I have to agree that Blizzard's system is THE most polished. Like most have said it's responsive, hit detection is spot on, characters "feel" anchored when the traverse the ground they walk, run or jump on, when you cast a spell the timing feels right and you know when it will release( I can watch my character's animation for cues when to hit the button next rather than spamming the button), hits from my sword, dagger, staff, claw, etc. feel solid, I can effortlessly link actions without worry of a unregistered keystroke and lag is rarely a factor in a loss.
If you doubt my experiences or the truth to my opinions, read some of those negative post further back and 100% failed to mention any complaint of user input to character response as a basis of any of their arguments. If anything they complain about gear, class balance or some issue they have with the level of satisfaction they get from the pvp system. THIS is the key to what those "fanboys" are trying to get across to you stubborn folks. Until other companies can perfect their game play mechanics to the point to where they are an afterthought in 100% of all other complaints, then they will continue to fail before they even make it to first base.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
1) Uber gear is fucking awesome. Have you ever seen a level 1 with 2 SoDs, Fungi Tunic, CCoM, etc? It's fucking godly. Why shouldn't players be able to have uber gear, and have uber twinks?
You can't even twink in WoW anymore. All the damn level caps on everything screw everything up. And they give you gear that upgrades w/ level now, but it still sucks. I should be able to throw level 80 items on level 1's. Sure it unbalances things but what if you want to get another level 80? Spend another like.. 2 months to get 80, even though you've done it a trillion times.
And god-gear should exist. It gives players an incentive to participate in PVE. In WoW, the gear you get in the end-game isnt overpowered enough, and a lot of people just hang out in the PvP arenas because they don't feel compellled to get PvE gear to improve their PvP.
So people now farm PvP BGs and Arenas, the most boring thing ever. They should be out there doing end-game shit and beating stuff that hasn't been beaten.
2) Godly gear should require lots of effort to get, and only a few people should have it. Unlike WoW where everyone has the same gear, other MMORPGs that are actually good had it so that maybe 5-10 people per server had an item.
I want the kind of MMO where, you can name an item, and then name all of the players on the server who have it. Too bad you can't do it with WoW because they gave every item away for free practically. Yeah its real difficult to get what everyone else has in the game. I feel like a fucking number when I play WoW because they put everyone on the same level.
To the guy saying WoW has a good PvP interface. Yeah, it does. And yeah, the PvP is polished. It's also pointless. You queue up from some safe zone, and go fight random people. How is that even fun? Like, you dont fight over anything meaningful except gear. You might as well go do a Pve instance because it's totally equivalent.
And the PVP endgame is totally fucking unbalanced. As someone who plays a paladin, I know that it's unbalanced. I go through BGs and can kill anyone who isnt an OPed class. And in the Arenas, don't act like that's somehow fair. You almost never see certain classes who are higher than 2k ranking. Most of the teams have paladins / DKs on them.
But yeah they gave the people w/o skill something to farm. Instead of having everyone farm PvP, they should have put in some difficult PvE instances. PvE shouldn't be optional. PvP should be the main point of an MMO, and PvP should be the incentive for PvE (get better gear to kill players). I have no idea why they seperated things the way they have.