This probably has been said before... and I'm sure there's an existing thread but I have limited time to search through hundreds of pages and find the exact same thing. :P So, I'll come right out with it.
I realize that the game is being devloped by a different company than Star Wars Galaxies. But damn it... that game used to be so good. It embodied what the TRUE Star Wars saga is all about. Then, come these idiotic, no-plot, ridiculous acting, bore-fests (Episode I-III) and it turns the whole thing upside and ruins it as afar as I'm concerned.
So the original trilogy of movies was about....overpopulating Tattoine with empty houses? About BeastMasters with pet rancors on every corner of Mos Eisley? About Uncle Owen managing his moisture Farm? About Twi'lek girls dancing in a cantina all day? Funny, I seem to remember the movie being about the -EPIC- jounrey of a young man from being a silly little farmboy to becoming a -HERO- of the galaxy along with his trusted -COMPANIONS-. About one of the last -JEDI- fighting the -SITH- sitting on the throne of a Galactic Empire? Weird. I must have seen the wrong movies.
Galaxies goes into the crapper because now EVERYONE has to be a friggen Jedi, and the game because it's so unbalanced had to be tweaked into something completely different. I played the game from Closed Beta on, and it's most definitely NOT what it used to be.
Agree. SWG is not what it used to be.
Now we get this new game. It has a lot of potential due to the newest technologies and so forth. But damn it... why Jedi again?! We have Clone Wars tv shows, and the Jedi Order books are endless now (more so than when SWG started). I feel like the saga that I grew up with, that I watched as a child is gone. It's replaced by flashing lights and nonsense that these kids and even adults sadly, are soaking up. What happened?
Because the Old Republic is a setting in which BioWare made one of their most successful games. Because there is a HUGE following of people out there who LOVE this setting. And because in that setting, Jedi and Sith were quite numerous.
So what do I expect from this upcoming game? I think a better title would be, "Star Wars:The Same Old Republic" because I can't see a lot of new stuff being implemented. It's Jedi again, and instead of being against the Empire or bad guys in general, now it's the Sith.
It's funny you should say Jedi -again-. Because in the end, that's at least a big part of what the original trilogy was about, wasn't it? I mean...even one of the movies was named "Return of the Jedi". Kinda weird if you would just take them out of the whole thing, no?
It just blows me away that the whole original saga, the FOUNDATION of Star Wars had so much going for it. Thousands of named planets, characters, weapons, vehicles, and countless other items that could have been added along the way. SWG could have been the longest running, most updated MMO in history. It could have been something of greatness... but of course, the Jedi ruined it. The new movies, and tv shows did it in. This new game seems like a ploy to drag in more of the mindless hordes of people that got sucked into this Jedi craze.
The original Saga also has something going against it as a gaming world: It is established, the events have happened and the STORY is told. There is very little room for creative freedom. Whereas in the Old Republic timeline, specifically the timeline TOR is set in, the developers have a lot of room to implement new stories and new content. Make sense?
I've read their forums... looked at everything they have to offer. I've been registered there for months (been registered here for years). But I just don't see this game capturing what Star Wars is for me, and anyone who lived during the early 80's. This is a new generation and I think that's who this game is geared towards. Unless they expand on the available classes (to allow more non-Jedi), I can't see it being anything other than an upgraded version of Star Wars: Galaxies post NGE. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
So far, two classes have been announced. BOTH non-Jedi. It is more or less guaranteed that Jedi and Sith will be a class, too. That'd be 2 out of (probably) 8 classes being Jedi/Sith. Yeah, wow. There will be NO choice whatsoever here.
Thoughts?
My thoughts? These kind of posts get old. People who want SWG version 2.0 are disappointed with TOR, I get that. Because it will most definately not be. People on the other hand who loved the KOTOR games, might be more happy about that.
What makes you right and us wrong? Or to put it more bluntly, Star Wars Galaxies had its shot. SOE ruined it. Time for the next episode. And until you have more info on it, you might want to be a little more careful with your -story- and if you want to stick with it. After all, neither you nor I know how this game is going to play out.
All we know is, it won't be SWG version 2.0. If that alone makes you angry, then I would advise you to ignore this game and look for one of the upcoming Sandbox titles, such as Earthrise, Fallen Earth, Mortal Online etc. You might even wanna check out EVE.
Wow I didn't see this one coming lol. We get it, you are anti-player housing and anti-crafting, you bring up the same exaggerated player housing and moisture farmer bit every time someone references SWG and it gets really old. Guess what? People like crafting and they like harvesting. If they didn't, neither would be in every successful MMO in some form or another.
I enjoyed KOTOR too but after spending a week or two going thru each game, it was just another single player game to remove and move on. To keep players paying a monthly fee there has to be some alternative advancement in place, like crafting, harvesting, pvp or something other than questing or it will be the same thing, play for a week or two, and uninstall. Excellent story writing will keep people interested for a little while but most people skip the fluff and will expect the normal things that keep them coming back month after month.
Wow I didn't see this one coming lol. We get it, you are anti-player housing and anti-crafting, you bring up the same exaggerated player housing and moisture farmer bit every time someone references SWG and it gets really old. Guess what? People like crafting and they like harvesting. If they didn't, neither would be in every successful MMO in some form or another.
I enjoyed KOTOR too but after spending a week or two going thru each game, it was just another single player game to remove and move on. To keep players paying a monthly fee there has to be some alternative advancement in place, like crafting, harvesting, pvp or something other than questing or it will be the same thing, play for a week or two, and uninstall. Excellent story writing will keep people interested for a little while but most people skip the fluff and will expect the normal things that keep them coming back month after month.
No. You got me completely wrong.
I have no problem with crafting. I have no problem with housing. I didn't even have a huge problem with player-housing as it was implemented in SWG. I didn't much care for it, but hey, to each their own.
But to say that the original Star Wars was about -THAT- is just blatantly wrong. Period. The original Star Wars was an epic story, about Luke and his friends, fighting an evil emperor and rescuing a princess in the process. It was about dramatic fights, it was about moral dilemmas. It was _NOT- about building your own home and being a moisture farmer on Tattooine.
I simply detest people who tell me that the original Trilogy was all about the "Little Man" and about "Life" in the Star Wars universe, because it was not. It was about -HEROES- in the Star Wars universe.
That's what I pointed out and if you would watch the original movies again, you might actually see that it is true.
Crafting and Community aspects are important in MMO's. To varying degrees. I've called for strong social functionality in this game before. Social hubs, cantinas and the like, I personally don't care much for crafting, but I know it is a necessary component in such a game because people enjoy it. Quit reading into my posts what you want to see so you can try to bash them.
This probably has been said before... and I'm sure there's an existing thread but I have limited time to search through hundreds of pages and find the exact same thing. :P So, I'll come right out with it.
I realize that the game is being devloped by a different company than Star Wars Galaxies. But damn it... that game used to be so good. It embodied what the TRUE Star Wars saga is all about. Then, come these idiotic, no-plot, ridiculous acting, bore-fests (Episode I-III) and it turns the whole thing upside and ruins it as afar as I'm concerned.
So the original trilogy of movies was about....overpopulating Tattoine with empty houses? About BeastMasters with pet rancors on every corner of Mos Eisley? About Uncle Owen managing his moisture Farm? About Twi'lek girls dancing in a cantina all day? Funny, I seem to remember the movie being about the -EPIC- jounrey of a young man from being a silly little farmboy to becoming a -HERO- of the galaxy along with his trusted -COMPANIONS-. About one of the last -JEDI- fighting the -SITH- sitting on the throne of a Galactic Empire? Weird. I must have seen the wrong movies.
Galaxies goes into the crapper because now EVERYONE has to be a friggen Jedi, and the game because it's so unbalanced had to be tweaked into something completely different. I played the game from Closed Beta on, and it's most definitely NOT what it used to be.
Agree. SWG is not what it used to be.
Now we get this new game. It has a lot of potential due to the newest technologies and so forth. But damn it... why Jedi again?! We have Clone Wars tv shows, and the Jedi Order books are endless now (more so than when SWG started). I feel like the saga that I grew up with, that I watched as a child is gone. It's replaced by flashing lights and nonsense that these kids and even adults sadly, are soaking up. What happened?
Because the Old Republic is a setting in which BioWare made one of their most successful games. Because there is a HUGE following of people out there who LOVE this setting. And because in that setting, Jedi and Sith were quite numerous.
So what do I expect from this upcoming game? I think a better title would be, "Star Wars:The Same Old Republic" because I can't see a lot of new stuff being implemented. It's Jedi again, and instead of being against the Empire or bad guys in general, now it's the Sith.
It's funny you should say Jedi -again-. Because in the end, that's at least a big part of what the original trilogy was about, wasn't it? I mean...even one of the movies was named "Return of the Jedi". Kinda weird if you would just take them out of the whole thing, no?
It just blows me away that the whole original saga, the FOUNDATION of Star Wars had so much going for it. Thousands of named planets, characters, weapons, vehicles, and countless other items that could have been added along the way. SWG could have been the longest running, most updated MMO in history. It could have been something of greatness... but of course, the Jedi ruined it. The new movies, and tv shows did it in. This new game seems like a ploy to drag in more of the mindless hordes of people that got sucked into this Jedi craze.
The original Saga also has something going against it as a gaming world: It is established, the events have happened and the STORY is told. There is very little room for creative freedom. Whereas in the Old Republic timeline, specifically the timeline TOR is set in, the developers have a lot of room to implement new stories and new content. Make sense?
I've read their forums... looked at everything they have to offer. I've been registered there for months (been registered here for years). But I just don't see this game capturing what Star Wars is for me, and anyone who lived during the early 80's. This is a new generation and I think that's who this game is geared towards. Unless they expand on the available classes (to allow more non-Jedi), I can't see it being anything other than an upgraded version of Star Wars: Galaxies post NGE. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
So far, two classes have been announced. BOTH non-Jedi. It is more or less guaranteed that Jedi and Sith will be a class, too. That'd be 2 out of (probably) 8 classes being Jedi/Sith. Yeah, wow. There will be NO choice whatsoever here.
Thoughts?
My thoughts? These kind of posts get old. People who want SWG version 2.0 are disappointed with TOR, I get that. Because it will most definately not be. People on the other hand who loved the KOTOR games, might be more happy about that.
What makes you right and us wrong? Or to put it more bluntly, Star Wars Galaxies had its shot. SOE ruined it. Time for the next episode. And until you have more info on it, you might want to be a little more careful with your -story- and if you want to stick with it. After all, neither you nor I know how this game is going to play out.
All we know is, it won't be SWG version 2.0. If that alone makes you angry, then I would advise you to ignore this game and look for one of the upcoming Sandbox titles, such as Earthrise, Fallen Earth, Mortal Online etc. You might even wanna check out EVE.
So, you are saying the correct Star Wars ---MMO--- should be everyone plays as Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader?
Does no one these days realize that an MMO is inherently different from a single player game / movie / book?
______________________ Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
Wow I didn't see this one coming lol. We get it, you are anti-player housing and anti-crafting, you bring up the same exaggerated player housing and moisture farmer bit every time someone references SWG and it gets really old. Guess what? People like crafting and they like harvesting. If they didn't, neither would be in every successful MMO in some form or another.
I enjoyed KOTOR too but after spending a week or two going thru each game, it was just another single player game to remove and move on. To keep players paying a monthly fee there has to be some alternative advancement in place, like crafting, harvesting, pvp or something other than questing or it will be the same thing, play for a week or two, and uninstall. Excellent story writing will keep people interested for a little while but most people skip the fluff and will expect the normal things that keep them coming back month after month.
No. You got me completely wrong.
I have no problem with crafting. I have no problem with housing. I didn't even have a huge problem with player-housing as it was implemented in SWG. I didn't much care for it, but hey, to each their own.
But to say that the original Star Wars was about -THAT- is just blatantly wrong. Period. The original Star Wars was an epic story, about Luke and his friends, fighting an evil emperor and rescuing a princess in the process. It was about dramatic fights, it was about moral dilemmas. It was _NOT- about building your own home and being a moisture farmer on Tattooine.
I simply detest people who tell me that the original Trilogy was all about the "Little Man" and about "Life" in the Star Wars universe, because it was not. It was about -HEROES- in the Star Wars universe.
That's what I pointed out and if you would watch the original movies again, you might actually see that it is true.
Crafting and Community aspects are important in MMO's. To varying degrees. I've called for strong social functionality in this game before. Social hubs, cantinas and the like, I personally don't care much for crafting, but I know it is a necessary component in such a game because people enjoy it. Quit reading into my posts what you want to see so you can try to bash them.
Double post.
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
So, you are saying the correct Star Wars ---MMO--- should be everyone plays as Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader? Does no one these days realize that an MMO is inherently different from a single player game / movie / book?
No. I'm saying the original trilogy was about heroes and about epic stories, not about everyday life. *sighs*
Why are you people so adamant about the opinion that a good game has to be a Life-Simulator? If you are so eager to play a normal life, I hear Second Life is the perfect Sandbox. And there's always The Sims if you want to play offline.
Wow I didn't see this one coming lol. We get it, you are anti-player housing and anti-crafting, you bring up the same exaggerated player housing and moisture farmer bit every time someone references SWG and it gets really old. Guess what? People like crafting and they like harvesting. If they didn't, neither would be in every successful MMO in some form or another.
I enjoyed KOTOR too but after spending a week or two going thru each game, it was just another single player game to remove and move on. To keep players paying a monthly fee there has to be some alternative advancement in place, like crafting, harvesting, pvp or something other than questing or it will be the same thing, play for a week or two, and uninstall. Excellent story writing will keep people interested for a little while but most people skip the fluff and will expect the normal things that keep them coming back month after month.
No. You got me completely wrong.
I have no problem with crafting. I have no problem with housing. I didn't even have a huge problem with player-housing as it was implemented in SWG. I didn't much care for it, but hey, to each their own.
But to say that the original Star Wars was about -THAT- is just blatantly wrong. Period. The original Star Wars was an epic story, about Luke and his friends, fighting an evil emperor and rescuing a princess in the process. It was about dramatic fights, it was about moral dilemmas. It was _NOT- about building your own home and being a moisture farmer on Tattooine.
I simply detest people who tell me that the original Trilogy was all about the "Little Man" and about "Life" in the Star Wars universe, because it was not. It was about -HEROES- in the Star Wars universe.
That's what I pointed out and if you would watch the original movies again, you might actually see that it is true.
Crafting and Community aspects are important in MMO's. To varying degrees. I've called for strong social functionality in this game before. Social hubs, cantinas and the like, I personally don't care much for crafting, but I know it is a necessary component in such a game because people enjoy it. Quit reading into my posts what you want to see so you can try to bash them.
Three characters. You cannot emulate the story of three characters and transpose them to what Bioware hope to be hundreds of thousands of characters. How individual do you really think these story paths are going to be? How original? How unique?
You also cite this "moisture farmer" nonsense in reference to . You're quoting directly from SOE's marketing team when they were trying to plug the NGE, perhaps that is the game for you...?
You also try to argue that
Yeah, I'm using a term widely known in the Star Wars universe. Shame on me. Oh my god. -.-
And how dependand are you on other players to make your gaming experience fun and entertaining? You're saying you cannot enjoy a game where the possibility exists that someone else has done the same thing you have done a couple of times? You should stop playing MMO's then.
For crying out loud. You act as though it is impossible to enjoy a game if there's even a slim chance that someone else has the same experience as you do. What's so frikkin bad about that? Never mind that, if you are creative enough, you can adjust your story to your own needs any time, in any game.
And if you want a Life-Simulator, as I stated above, there's Second Life. I hear they have some excellent Star Wars areas, too (serious).
Edit: Also, I am mostly looking forward to TOR because it is set in the Old Republic universe. Sorry, no NGE can give me that. ^^
So, you are saying the correct Star Wars ---MMO--- should be everyone plays as Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader? Does no one these days realize that an MMO is inherently different from a single player game / movie / book?
No. I'm saying the original trilogy was about heroes and about epic stories, not about everyday life. *sighs*
Why are you people so adamant about the opinion that a good game has to be a Life-Simulator? If you are so eager to play a normal life, I hear Second Life is the perfect Sandbox. And there's always The Sims if you want to play offline.
So you don't think that everyone being a "hero" doesn't ruin what the point of being a "hero" is? And if my assumption is correct, it would mean that it is infact your philosophy that wants to get rid of the heroicness and epicness from the movies, not mine.
______________________ Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
Yeah, I'm using a term widely known in the Star Wars universe. Shame on me. Oh my god. -.-
And how dependand are you on other players to make your gaming experience fun and entertaining? You're saying you cannot enjoy a game where the possibility exists that someone else has done the same thing you have done a couple of times? You should stop playing MMO's then.
For crying out loud. You act as though it is impossible to enjoy a game if there's even a slim chance that someone else has the same experience as you do. What's so frikkin bad about that? Never mind that, if you are creative enough, you can adjust your story to your own needs any time, in any game.
And if you want a Life-Simulator, as I stated above, there's Second Life. I hear they have some excellent Star Wars areas, too (serious).
Edit: Also, I am mostly looking forward to TOR because it is set in the Old Republic universe. Sorry, no NGE can give me that. ^^
The entire point of MMOs is to play WITH other people. If you think people shouldn't be dependent on others for fun, maybe it is you that shouldn't be playing MMOs then. Also, the NGE is actually very similar to what TOR is trying to do (minus the single player KOTOR story).
______________________ Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
So, you are saying the correct Star Wars ---MMO--- should be everyone plays as Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader? Does no one these days realize that an MMO is inherently different from a single player game / movie / book?
No. I'm saying the original trilogy was about heroes and about epic stories, not about everyday life. *sighs*
Why are you people so adamant about the opinion that a good game has to be a Life-Simulator? If you are so eager to play a normal life, I hear Second Life is the perfect Sandbox. And there's always The Sims if you want to play offline.
So you don't think that everyone being a "hero" doesn't ruin what the point of being a "hero" is?
No, actually, I do not. Not in an MMO.
Let me explain why: There can be more than -one- hero at a time in a galaxy. Now you will say, "but it's THOUSANDS" of heroes. Well, given that our lovely Earth has about 7 billion inhabitants right now, let's say we use that same number for average, then apply it to a Star Wars world. Couldn't it be possible that in a galaxy of (let's say we only have 10 planets in the game) 60 billion people, we have a couple of thousand heroes? Why is that so hard to imagine.
Isn't every soldier fighting in the war for their cause, risking their life to save that which they believe in or that which they love a hero? Isn't every medic who saves a life of a soldier on the battlefield, or saving a civilian who got in the crossfire a hero? Isn't every mechanic who manages to keep the engines of the ship running in the heat of battle while risking their lives to do so, a hero?
Just because you are the hero, it doesn't mean you are the only heroic person around. The bulk of the galaxy (in other words, the NPC's) are the normal people in these games. Those people running around on the streets controlled by the computer. The player controlled characters are the heroes. Those who stand out, those who rise above the average. *shrug* I don#t see why there is a problem if there is more than one of those.
Yeah, I'm using a term widely known in the Star Wars universe. Shame on me. Oh my god. -.-
And how dependand are you on other players to make your gaming experience fun and entertaining? You're saying you cannot enjoy a game where the possibility exists that someone else has done the same thing you have done a couple of times? You should stop playing MMO's then.
For crying out loud. You act as though it is impossible to enjoy a game if there's even a slim chance that someone else has the same experience as you do. What's so frikkin bad about that? Never mind that, if you are creative enough, you can adjust your story to your own needs any time, in any game.
And if you want a Life-Simulator, as I stated above, there's Second Life. I hear they have some excellent Star Wars areas, too (serious).
Edit: Also, I am mostly looking forward to TOR because it is set in the Old Republic universe. Sorry, no NGE can give me that. ^^
The entire point of MMOs is to play WITH other people. If you think people shouldn't be dependent on others for fun, maybe it is you that shouldn't be playing MMOs then. Also, the NGE is actually very similar to what TOR is trying to do (minus the single player KOTOR story).
Yes. -WITH- other people. But why do you have to have a completely different gaming experience from the other person? What do you care if the other player has played the same quest just now? What do you care if he started out on the same world, or has the same class?
And as I stated above, the NGE is not for me for several reasons, one of them being that I like the Old Republic timeline much better. Not to mention that there is a difference if you design a game from the ground up towards a certain goal, or if you suddenly change it from one thing to another.
Yeah, I'm using a term widely known in the Star Wars universe. Shame on me. Oh my god. -.-
And how dependand are you on other players to make your gaming experience fun and entertaining? You're saying you cannot enjoy a game where the possibility exists that someone else has done the same thing you have done a couple of times? You should stop playing MMO's then.
For crying out loud. You act as though it is impossible to enjoy a game if there's even a slim chance that someone else has the same experience as you do. What's so frikkin bad about that? Never mind that, if you are creative enough, you can adjust your story to your own needs any time, in any game.
And if you want a Life-Simulator, as I stated above, there's Second Life. I hear they have some excellent Star Wars areas, too (serious).
Edit: Also, I am mostly looking forward to TOR because it is set in the Old Republic universe. Sorry, no NGE can give me that. ^^
The entire point of MMOs is to play WITH other people. If you think people shouldn't be dependent on others for fun, maybe it is you that shouldn't be playing MMOs then. Also, the NGE is actually very similar to what TOR is trying to do (minus the single player KOTOR story).
Yes. -WITH- other people. But why do you have to have a completely different gaming experience from the other person? What do you care if the other player has played the same quest just now? What do you care if he started out on the same world, or has the same class?
And as I stated above, the NGE is not for me for several reasons, one of them being that I like the Old Republic timeline much better. Not to mention that there is a difference if you design a game from the ground up towards a certain goal, or if you suddenly change it from one thing to another.
I'll reply to both (don't feel like quoting both though).
I think there is a very critical distinction to be made. First of all, I think that a lot of players' experiences should be similar. "I've killed a rat." "So have I!" Here is the problem: when you introduce the gameplay as an "epic/heroic/etc." story, it should only be done once. You can't have two people kill the criminal boss who can only really die once. In an MMO, a single player story like this doesn't work simply because it is an MMO. Small tasks / non-epic tasks should routinely be done by many, but a single player story should only be done by a single player. How should stories be done in MMOs then? Developers need to expand upon what they have already done - except make it vastly better. For example, in SWG there was once a droid invasion of Bestine. (I use SWG to keep the Star Wars motiff - but pretty much most MMOs pre-wow have had community events). How was this story resolved? By the masses of players. Sure, many players missed out, but that is why developers need to figure out good ways of doing these sorts of things / regularly having content. I'm not saying everything needs to be done by everyone. People can go off and do parts on their own (or the majority if you will) - BUT these things have to make sense. You can't tell everyone to go kill Jabba the Hutt (and have everyone succeed). Why? Because it is not possible lore-wise and because it completely breaks the immersion (which is a major part of stories). Hell, the immersion in TOR is broken right off the bat because you know you aren't really making any decisions.
Now on to the other one: You hit the nail right on the head! Yes, all players in an MMO should be above "common folk". (In a sandbox - players should be whatever they want). How far above though? Everyone who has ever made the argument that they should be just like it was in the movies - which is everyone who supports TOR - is aiming way too high. How many Luke Skywalkers were there in the Galaxy? One. How many soldiers were there in the Galaxy? I don't know...there were vast amounts doing many heroic things. There's a vast difference between a hero / someone important and a legendary, epic, hero of all time. What TOR aims to do (LucasArts and EA LOVE this), is translate the movies into an MMO, but they have zero regard for what an MMO actually is. It is like shoving square pegs into round holes. It is actually more like filling a banana with air (which doesn't even make sense). You CAN have the playerbase be heroic, but you CAN'T have the playerbase be legends (which is what they are aiming to do - even you won't deny this). It defeats its own purpose. It's like making a game were every is (here come the buzzwords) saintly, divine, pure, and ultimately good - yet you make the only playable class in the game Satan (it defeats the purpose).
______________________ Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
Wow I didn't see this one coming lol. We get it, you are anti-player housing and anti-crafting, you bring up the same exaggerated player housing and moisture farmer bit every time someone references SWG and it gets really old. Guess what? People like crafting and they like harvesting. If they didn't, neither would be in every successful MMO in some form or another.
I enjoyed KOTOR too but after spending a week or two going thru each game, it was just another single player game to remove and move on. To keep players paying a monthly fee there has to be some alternative advancement in place, like crafting, harvesting, pvp or something other than questing or it will be the same thing, play for a week or two, and uninstall. Excellent story writing will keep people interested for a little while but most people skip the fluff and will expect the normal things that keep them coming back month after month.
No. You got me completely wrong.
I have no problem with crafting. I have no problem with housing. I didn't even have a huge problem with player-housing as it was implemented in SWG. I didn't much care for it, but hey, to each their own.
But to say that the original Star Wars was about -THAT- is just blatantly wrong. Period. The original Star Wars was an epic story, about Luke and his friends, fighting an evil emperor and rescuing a princess in the process. It was about dramatic fights, it was about moral dilemmas. It was _NOT- about building your own home and being a moisture farmer on Tattooine.
I simply detest people who tell me that the original Trilogy was all about the "Little Man" and about "Life" in the Star Wars universe, because it was not. It was about -HEROES- in the Star Wars universe.
That's what I pointed out and if you would watch the original movies again, you might actually see that it is true.
Crafting and Community aspects are important in MMO's. To varying degrees. I've called for strong social functionality in this game before. Social hubs, cantinas and the like, I personally don't care much for crafting, but I know it is a necessary component in such a game because people enjoy it. Quit reading into my posts what you want to see so you can try to bash them.
A few characters. You cannot emulate the story of a few characters and transpose them to what Bioware hopes to be hundreds of thousands of virtual characters. How individual do you really think these story paths are going to be? How original? How unique? It just does not work. The clue is in the name of the genre: MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER. That means that the inferred heroism they want to make you feel is lost in translation when you consider everyone is just as good. Therein lies the problem.
MMOs do not give god like status to individual players, you are a small part of something big.
You cite this "moisture farmer" nonsense in reference to the gaming experience of SWG. You're quoting directly from SOE's marketing team when they were trying to plug the NGE, perhaps that is the game for you...? Do you honestly think that is an accurate description of SWG? What you seem to forget about SWG are its finer points, rather than the shit parts. Granted, urban sprawl was a bit of a joke, and there were plenty of other problems like fight clubs etc, but you dispute men with pet rancors? The ugly topless guy in Jabba's palace was the rancor's master, read the lore, and in a universe where pissy little cells in someone's blood can be somehow used to telekinetically manipulate objects would suggest that having a pet alien would not be too far removed from reality, don't you think?
Did you ever play SWG properly? Some of my best moments in MMO gaming came in SWG, defending my guild town, attacking our rivals, launching attacks on Star Destroyers, but there was also a good social element, like meeting people in the cantina or waiting in the starport for a shuttle. Not to mention how the players ran the economy. You don't find it fun, that's fine, but don't patronise the people that did enjoy it.
You also try to argue that the Jedi's dominace of the story is justification for everyone being able to be Jedi in the game simply because "back then there were loads" (TOR era). If consistency is what you base your argument on, tell me how a grunt is supposed to confidently take on a Jedi, and win? You might argue they are "elite". Trite. If the path to becoming a Jedi is so hard, A) why should you be simply allowed to click your mouse and become one (seeing as that would enormously inconsistent with the story) and why would someone with such prowess and potential even bother becoming trying to become a Jedi seeing as he could simply become "elite" and not put himself through the hassle? In fact, what would be the point in the Jedi anyway if they were so martially inept? What kind of a feared and respected organisation would the Jedi Order be if an average joe could bully their members? THAT would be inconsistency, no?
To further this Jedi point, I really cannot see how someone can justify the point "there were plenty of jedi back then". By plenty, we'd be talking thousands here, as that is how many people will play them. Its a small selective order ! Do you honestly think such a small organisation could sufficiently scout that many force sensitive beings across the galaxy, and then oversee the training of THOUSANDS of aspiring Jedi whilst still possessing the wit to ensure NONE of them are tempted by the dark side on top of maintaning an exorbitant standard of training to ensure their quality is unquestionable? I don't see it buddy. The Jedi order is not a factory, and if it had the capability to produce thousands in the TOR era, why would they have stopped this practice (you don't see thousands of Jedi in E1-3).
With regard to the other classes, they don't excite me; trooper and bounty hunter, along with 2 jedi classes. I wonder what they are going to be? Its kind of obvious, don't you think? There is nothing original here. The hype this game has received based unfounded. Bioware could lead you blindfolded off the edge of a cliff, and many people would happily follow. What are you basing this on, previous titles? Based on what I've seen so far (a few planets and the same bog standard player professions) this game is neither unique nor worth of all its attention. Sufficient certainty is what should be looked for in a game in development, not chasing of shadows and expectation. As good as KOTOR1&2 were, the were single player games, you could be the hero, Leeds Utd and the Miami Dolphins used to dominate their respective sports. Where are they now? I honestly believe that the developer's secrecy is down to the fact that they are only hatching another WoW clone.
Res Ipsa Loqitur....
PS I don't care for SWG anymore.
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
I'll reply to both (don't feel like quoting both though). I think there is a very critical distinction to be made. First of all, I think that a lot of players' experiences should be similar. "I've killed a rat." "So have I!" Here is the problem: when you introduce the gameplay as an "epic/heroic/etc." story, it should only be done once. You can't have two people kill the criminal boss who can only really die once. In an MMO, a single player story like this doesn't work simply because it is an MMO. Small tasks / non-epic tasks should routinely be done by many, but a single player story should only be done by a single player. How should stories be done in MMOs then? Developers need to expand upon what they have already done - except make it vastly better. For example, in SWG there was once a droid invasion of Bestine. (I use SWG to keep the Star Wars motiff - but pretty much most MMOs pre-wow have had community events). How was this story resolved? By the masses of players. Sure, many players missed out, but that is why developers need to figure out good ways of doing these sorts of things / regularly having content. I'm not saying everything needs to be done by everyone. People can go off and do parts on their own (or the majority if you will) - BUT these things have to make sense. You can't tell everyone to go kill Jabba the Hutt (and have everyone succeed). Why? Because it is not possible lore-wise and because it completely breaks the immersion (which is a major part of stories). Hell, the immersion in TOR is broken right off the bat because you know you aren't really making any decisions.
Since we have no idea yet how BioWare is going to implement these stories, I urge caution. Yes, I see you rproblem with it. The old "hey, I just killed Darth vader!" "No, you can't have done that, we killed him last night!" routine. I understand that and I do not know how BioWare will adress that, or even IF they will adress it. So we will have to wait and see. Frankly though, I do not have as much problem with this as others seem to have. I'll wait to see how the character stories in this game actually play out. If the choices actually have a viable effect on your outcome, then the individual stories might actually be varied enough to make it very different from what we have seen so far. Now on to the other one: You hit the nail right on the head! Yes, all players in an MMO should be above "common folk". (In a sandbox - players should be whatever they want). How far above though? Everyone who has ever made the argument that they should be just like it was in the movies - which is everyone who supports TOR - is aiming way too high. How many Luke Skywalkers were there in the Galaxy? One. How many soldiers were there in the Galaxy? I don't know...there were vast amounts doing many heroic things. There's a vast difference between a hero / someone important and a legendary, epic, hero of all time. What TOR aims to do (LucasArts and EA LOVE this), is translate the movies into an MMO, but they have zero regard for what an MMO actually is. It is like shoving square pegs into round holes. It is actually more like filling a banana with air (which doesn't even make sense). You CAN have the playerbase be heroic, but you CAN'T have the playerbase be legends (which is what they are aiming to do - even you won't deny this). It defeats its own purpose. It's like making a game were every is (here come the buzzwords) saintly, divine, pure, and ultimately good - yet you make the only playable class in the game Satan (it defeats the purpose).
Again, we do not know how the s´player stories will pan out. That remains to be seen and I do not know if it will be that every player is a "Luke Skywalker" or if every player is a "Biggs Darklighter" (excluding the dying part). There could be -tons- of Biggs Darklighters and the world would still make sense and they would still be heroic.
And actually, I will not deny or confirm they aim to make the players "Legends". Heroes, yes, Legends...I don't know. Possibly, but I don't know yet. And again, as above, If we are to say everyone is a Legend, then that may not be as immersive as some might wish it to be, but there, for me, comes in my own creativity. As i said, we shall see.
Thanks actually, for bringing the posts together. ^^
Originally posted by singsofdeath I have no problem with crafting. I have no problem with housing. I didn't even have a huge problem with player-housing as it was implemented in SWG. I didn't much care for it, but hey, to each their own.
But to say that the original Star Wars was about -THAT- is just blatantly wrong. Period. The original Star Wars was an epic story, about Luke and his friends, fighting an evil emperor and rescuing a princess in the process. It was about dramatic fights, it was about moral dilemmas. It was _NOT- about building your own home and being a moisture farmer on Tattooine.
I simply detest people who tell me that the original Trilogy was all about the "Little Man" and about "Life" in the Star Wars universe, because it was not. It was about -HEROES- in the Star Wars universe.
That's what I pointed out and if you would watch the original movies again, you might actually see that it is true.
Crafting and Community aspects are important in MMO's. To varying degrees. I've called for strong social functionality in this game before. Social hubs, cantinas and the like, I personally don't care much for crafting, but I know it is a necessary component in such a game because people enjoy it. Quit reading into my posts what you want to see so you can try to bash them.
No one has said Star Wars was about crafting or harvesting or player housing, you are just implying that those were the only features available in SWG. They were each in SWG because they keep people playing between large battles and quests. People want to craft, people want to harvest, some of us even want player housing, it doesn't mean that those are the only things that should be in the game.
There are plenty of people out there that do not want to be Darth Vader or Princess Leia, and forcing them into that type role will just alienate them. There are entire guilds and communities willing to try this game out but by alienating those who enjoy playing "the little man" you limit your potential player-base.
A few characters. You cannot emulate the story of a few characters and transpose them to what Bioware hopes to be hundreds of thousands of virtual characters. How individual do you really think these story paths are going to be? How original? How unique? It just does not work. The clue is in the name of the genre: MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER. That means that the inferred heroism they want to make you feel is lost in translation when you consider everyone is just as good. Therein lies the problem. MMOs do not give god like status to individual players, you are a small part of something big.
Who made that rule? Why can#t you be a -BIG- part of something -BIGGER-? Just because you think it shouldn't be that way?
You cite this "moisture farmer" nonsense in reference to the gaming experience of SWG. You're quoting directly from SOE's marketing team when they were trying to plug the NGE, perhaps that is the game for you...? Do you honestly think that is an accurate description of SWG? What you seem to forget about SWG are its finer points, rather than the shit parts. Granted, urban sprawl was a bit of a joke, and there were plenty of other problems like fight clubs etc, but you dispute men with pet rancors? The ugly topless guy in Jabba's palace was the rancor's master, read the lore, and in a universe where pissy little cells in someone's blood can be somehow used to telekinetically manipulate objects would suggest that having a pet alien would not be too far removed from reality, don't you think?
Would you mind quitting telling me I supposedly quote something from SOE's marketing team? Just because they use the term moisture farmers doesn't mean i got it from there, thank you very much. Fact is, that is what quite a few people have asked to -BE- in many posts, including in some on this forum. Now to move on. To your Pet Rancor theory. Yeah, fine. Of course there were Beast masters. But were they a huge part of the movies? No, they were not. Were they standing around on every corner INSIDE Mos Eisley? No, they did not. That' swhat I pointed out, no more no less. Did you ever play SWG properly? Some of my best moments in MMO gaming came in SWG, defending my guild town, attacking our rivals, launching attacks on Star Destroyers, but there was also a good social element, like meeting people in the cantina or waiting in the starport for a shuttle. Not to mention how the players ran the economy. You don't find it fun, that's fine, but don't patronise the people that did enjoy it.
I enjoyed SWG for a long time. I liked the community in the game. The game itself, not so much. It certainly had its pluses, but it had a LOT of faults. Community was excellent though. Thanks again for making assumptions about people. I'm not patronising anyone. I pointed out the flaw in the logic of saying the original Star Wars movies were in the same "spirit" as SWG. Read. My. Post. You also try to argue that the Jedi's dominace of the story is justification for everyone being able to be Jedi in the game simply because "back then there were loads" (TOR era). If consistency is what you base your argument on, tell me how a grunt is supposed to confidently take on a Jedi, and win? You might argue they are "elite". Trite. If the path to becoming a Jedi is so hard, A) why should you be simply allowed to click your mouse and become one (seeing as that would enormously inconsistent with the story) and why would someone with such prowess and potential even bother becoming trying to become a Jedi seeing as he could simply become "elite" and not put himself through the hassle? In fact, what would be the point in the Jedi anyway if they were so martially inept? What kind of a feared and respected organisation would the Jedi Order be if an average joe could bully their members? THAT would be inconsistency, no? Are you kidding me? This is a frikking GAME! Have you spent countless hours doing weapons training, squad tactics and physical conditioning so you can be a good Trooper...in a GAME? No? Well then why should anyone be allowed to just -click- and make a Republic Trooper? Huh? Fact is, in the Old Republic, you had quite a lot of Jedi. Thus, many Jedi's running around in the game is NOT inconsistent with the lore. Period. To further this Jedi point, I really cannot see how someone can justify the point "there were plenty of jedi back then". By plenty, we'd be talking thousands here, as that is how many people will play them. Its a small selective order ! Do you honestly think such a small organisation could sufficiently scout that many force sensitive beings across the galaxy, and then oversee the training of THOUSANDS of aspiring Jedi whilst still possessing the wit to ensure NONE of them are tempted by the dark side on top of maintaning an exorbitant standard of training to ensure their quality is unquestionable? I don't see it buddy. The Jedi order is not a factory, and if it had the capability to produce thousands in the TOR era, why would they have stopped this practice (you don't see thousands of Jedi in E1-3). Errr...actually, yes I do believe that is possible. Should I now point out how many sentient beings are probably alive in the Star Wars Galaxy? Gazillions? Think that a thousand exceptional individuals amongst BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of people is...weird? Personally, I really don't think so. With regard to the other classes, they don't excite me; trooper and bounty hunter, along with 2 jedi classes. I wonder what they are going to be? Its kind of obvious, don't you think? There is nothing original here. The hype this game has received based unfounded. Bioware could lead you blindfolded off the edge of a cliff, and many people would happily follow. What are you basing this on, previous titles? Based on what I've seen so far (a few planets and the same bog standard player professions) this game is neither unique nor worth of all its attention. Sufficient certainty is what should be looked for in a game in development, not chasing of shadows and expectation. As good as KOTOR1&2 were, the were single player games, you could be the hero, Leeds Utd and the Miami Dolphins used to dominate their respective sports. Where are they now? I honestly believe that the developer's secrecy is down to the fact that they are only hatching another WoW clone. Yes, I am basing my own hopes for this game on my previous experiences with BioWare. I enjoyed every single one of their games. I have no reason to not trust them to make a good game again. I do not -KNOW- if it will be good. never said that. I just give them the benefit of the doubt, while all you do is complain that their game does not correspond with YOUR vision of how a game for Star Wars should be made.
Oh, and I -love- the Old Republic timeline. Another factor for me why i am excited about this. Is that a problem? Res Ipsa Loqitur....
Originally posted by singsofdeath I have no problem with crafting. I have no problem with housing. I didn't even have a huge problem with player-housing as it was implemented in SWG. I didn't much care for it, but hey, to each their own.
But to say that the original Star Wars was about -THAT- is just blatantly wrong. Period. The original Star Wars was an epic story, about Luke and his friends, fighting an evil emperor and rescuing a princess in the process. It was about dramatic fights, it was about moral dilemmas. It was _NOT- about building your own home and being a moisture farmer on Tattooine.
I simply detest people who tell me that the original Trilogy was all about the "Little Man" and about "Life" in the Star Wars universe, because it was not. It was about -HEROES- in the Star Wars universe.
That's what I pointed out and if you would watch the original movies again, you might actually see that it is true.
Crafting and Community aspects are important in MMO's. To varying degrees. I've called for strong social functionality in this game before. Social hubs, cantinas and the like, I personally don't care much for crafting, but I know it is a necessary component in such a game because people enjoy it. Quit reading into my posts what you want to see so you can try to bash them.
No one has said Star Wars was about crafting or harvesting or player housing, you are just implying that those were the only features available in SWG. They were each in SWG because they keep people playing between large battles and quests. People want to craft, people want to harvest, some of us even want player housing, it doesn't mean that those are the only things that should be in the game.
There are plenty of people out there that do not want to be Darth Vader or Princess Leia, and forcing them into that type role will just alienate them. There are entire guilds and communities willing to try this game out but by alienating those who enjoy playing "the little man" you limit your potential player-base.
*sigh*
OK, for the last time: I took someone's post, someone who claimed that Star Wars galaxies represented the spirit of the original trilogy. I disputed this. I -NEVER- said crafting shouldn#t be in a game. I never said social activities shouldn#t be in a game. Nor did I say housing shouldn't be in a game.
But I -DID- point out that the original Star Wars was a -HEROIC- story. Period. The spirit of the original Star Wars was not about the droid engineer in his back-yard shop (tired of being accused of using SOE pep talk), or about a dancer in a cantina. That's -ALL- I said in my post.
Sure Star Wars Galaxies had other things to it. Never claimed otherwise. I played it for 2 years and played in Beta. I -do- know what the game had to offer.
A few characters. You cannot emulate the story of a few characters and transpose them to what Bioware hopes to be hundreds of thousands of virtual characters. How individual do you really think these story paths are going to be? How original? How unique? It just does not work. The clue is in the name of the genre: MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER. That means that the inferred heroism they want to make you feel is lost in translation when you consider everyone is just as good. Therein lies the problem. MMOs do not give god like status to individual players, you are a small part of something big.
Who made that rule? Why can#t you be a -BIG- part of something -BIGGER-? Just because you think it shouldn't be that way? The industry made that rule. Name me one commercially viable MMO where heroism of individual players is the epicentre of the game. You cite this "moisture farmer" nonsense in reference to the gaming experience of SWG. You're quoting directly from SOE's marketing team when they were trying to plug the NGE, perhaps that is the game for you...? Do you honestly think that is an accurate description of SWG? What you seem to forget about SWG are its finer points, rather than the shit parts. Granted, urban sprawl was a bit of a joke, and there were plenty of other problems like fight clubs etc, but you dispute men with pet rancors? The ugly topless guy in Jabba's palace was the rancor's master, read the lore, and in a universe where pissy little cells in someone's blood can be somehow used to telekinetically manipulate objects would suggest that having a pet alien would not be too far removed from reality, don't you think?
Would you mind quitting telling me I supposedly quote something from SOE's marketing team? Just because they use the term moisture farmers doesn't mean i got it from there, thank you very much. Fact is, that is what quite a few people have asked to -BE- in many posts, including in some on this forum. Now to move on. If you honestly felt like a moisture farmer whilst you player SWG, and kept playing, doesn't that make you a chump? You ARE quoting SOE's marketing team, thats their quote. I'm fairly sure you didn't start the Uncle Owen/Mositure Farmer profile of SWG. To your Pet Rancor theory. Yeah, fine. Of course there were Beast masters. But were they a huge part of the movies? No, they were not. Were they standing around on every corner INSIDE Mos Eisley? No, they did not. That' swhat I pointed out, no more no less. Would you mind not getting so worked up about a video game? Spies wren't a huge part of the movies, doctors weren't a huge part of the movies, rangers weren't a huge part of the movies, droid engineers weren't a huge part of the movies, commandos weren't a huge part of the movies, teras kasi artists weren't a huge part of the movies, image designers weren't a huge part of the movies. Need I continue? Why were they there? Simple! They were part of a community, and they were options given to players to be part of that community. Jesus Christ, are we to assume doctors don't exist in Star Wars because they were round every corner in Mos Eisley? I forgot Mos Eisley wasn't just a shitpot town in the middle of the desert and not a window into the Star Wars galaxy representing everything and anything in it. Tool. Did you ever play SWG properly? Some of my best moments in MMO gaming came in SWG, defending my guild town, attacking our rivals, launching attacks on Star Destroyers, but there was also a good social element, like meeting people in the cantina or waiting in the starport for a shuttle. Not to mention how the players ran the economy. You don't find it fun, that's fine, but don't patronise the people that did enjoy it.
I enjoyed SWG for a long time. I liked the community in the game. The game itself, not so much. It certainly had its pluses, but it had a LOT of faults. Community was excellent though. Thanks again for making assumptions about people. I'm not patronising anyone. I pointed out the flaw in the logic of saying the original Star Wars movies were in the same "spirit" as SWG. Read. My. Post. If you were as good as expressing yourself as you were at moping, maybe I'd understand what you mean by the "spirit". You also try to argue that the Jedi's dominace of the story is justification for everyone being able to be Jedi in the game simply because "back then there were loads" (TOR era). If consistency is what you base your argument on, tell me how a grunt is supposed to confidently take on a Jedi, and win? You might argue they are "elite". Trite. If the path to becoming a Jedi is so hard, A) why should you be simply allowed to click your mouse and become one (seeing as that would enormously inconsistent with the story) and why would someone with such prowess and potential even bother becoming trying to become a Jedi seeing as he could simply become "elite" and not put himself through the hassle? In fact, what would be the point in the Jedi anyway if they were so martially inept? What kind of a feared and respected organisation would the Jedi Order be if an average joe could bully their members? THAT would be inconsistency, no? Are you kidding me? This is a frikking GAME! Have you spent countless hours doing weapons training, squad tactics and physical conditioning so you can be a good Trooper...in a GAME? No? Well then why should anyone be allowed to just -click- and make a Republic Trooper? Huh? Fact is, in the Old Republic, you had quite a lot of Jedi. Thus, many Jedi's running around in the game is NOT inconsistent with the lore. Period. You've ignored the point (once again). Why. Would. A. Person. Capable. Of. Becoming. A. Jedi. Become. One. If. It. Gave. Him. No. Advantage. Over. A. Non-Jedi. Combatant? How would the Jedi Order function if they had no offensive clout? This is a point about class balance. Making a Jedi as powerful as a trooper is completely inconsistent with the lore. And when I played KOTOR, I don't remember seeing thousands of Jedi. Many, yes, but thousands? Having Jedi has a starting profession raises balance issues. Would a lightsabre not just cut through a troopers battle armour in the movies? Is that not why Jedi are superior? In your idyllic TOR, this would not be the case, what the hell is the point of a lightsabre if you can't use it to dispatch your enemies quickly!? To further this Jedi point, I really cannot see how someone can justify the point "there were plenty of jedi back then". By plenty, we'd be talking thousands here, as that is how many people will play them. Its a small selective order ! Do you honestly think such a small organisation could sufficiently scout that many force sensitive beings across the galaxy, and then oversee the training of THOUSANDS of aspiring Jedi whilst still possessing the wit to ensure NONE of them are tempted by the dark side on top of maintaning an exorbitant standard of training to ensure their quality is unquestionable? I don't see it buddy. The Jedi order is not a factory, and if it had the capability to produce thousands in the TOR era, why would they have stopped this practice (you don't see thousands of Jedi in E1-3). Errr...actually, yes I do believe that is possible. Should I now point out how many sentient beings are probably alive in the Star Wars Galaxy? Gazillions? Think that a thousand exceptional individuals amongst BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of people is...weird? Personally, I really don't think so. Rrrrright. And how are these force sensitives found again? They are stumbled upon in their childhood. You don't send your curriculum vitae into the Jedi Order and hope to hear back from them numbnuts, nor did the Jedi Order send people door to door to find out if there were any potential recruits. Practicality is what this point is all about: 1. Find force sensitive Jedi who is young enough. 2. Train potential Jedi for a number of years 3. Ensure this Jedi does not become tempted by the Dark Side during his training. 4. Find a Jedi Master to train the pupil. 5. Repeat stages 1 through 4 for, apparently, thousands of other aspiring Jedi. 6. Mysteriously stop this practice of training thousands of Jedi before the era of the films.
Bit of an administrative nightmare, don't you think? Its all about capacity, does the Jedi Order have the capacity to train so many Jedi? You claim they do, yet you have offerred no evidence in support of this.
You've also completely ignored the point about the Jedi, for some reason, halting this production before Episodes 1 through 3. If they were capable of producing so many, why did they stop? With regard to the other classes, they don't excite me; trooper and bounty hunter, along with 2 jedi classes. I wonder what they are going to be? Its kind of obvious, don't you think? There is nothing original here. The hype this game has received based unfounded. Bioware could lead you blindfolded off the edge of a cliff, and many people would happily follow. What are you basing this on, previous titles? Based on what I've seen so far (a few planets and the same bog standard player professions) this game is neither unique nor worth of all its attention. Sufficient certainty is what should be looked for in a game in development, not chasing of shadows and expectation. As good as KOTOR1&2 were, the were single player games, you could be the hero, Leeds Utd and the Miami Dolphins used to dominate their respective sports. Where are they now? I honestly believe that the developer's secrecy is down to the fact that they are only hatching another WoW clone. Yes, I am basing my own hopes for this game on my previous experiences with BioWare. I enjoyed every single one of their games. I have no reason to not trust them to make a good game again. I do not -KNOW- if it will be good. never said that. I just give them the benefit of the doubt, while all you do is complain that their game does not correspond with YOUR vision of how a game for Star Wars should be made. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig. Your choice. Oh, and I -love- the Old Republic timeline. Another factor for me why i am excited about this. Is that a problem? Liek omgosh, did I say there was a problem? Can you please quit making statements about what I am trying to infer from your drivel!!!!???1111//// Res Ipsa Loqitur.... You probably don't know what this means.
PS I don't care for SWG anymore.
Sigh....
F. For Fail. Thats what I grade your analysis of my post.
You've managed to completely miss everything I've said. I would like to try and explain what I've said in a more basic, rudimentary way, although I'm afraid you'll get your little red marker pen out and whine about how you're right and I'm wrong. Honestly, I don't know how I could simplify this further. I could have more constructive conversation with a shit chucking ape.
Perhaps you should crawl back into the TOR forum, where your fanboi friends will accept you back into their non-moisture farm, non-sandbox, pro-Bioware, high octane intense action, non crafting camraderie and then when the game fails, you can blame the SWG Vets for being negative.
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
Sigh.... F. For Fail. Thats what I grade your analysis of my post. You've managed to completely miss everything I've said. I would like to try and explain what I've said in a more basic, rudimentary way, although I'm afraid you'll get your little red marker pen out and whine about how you're right and I'm wrong. Honestly, I don't know how I could simplify this further. I could have more constructive conversation with a shit chucking ape. Perhaps you should crawl back into the TOR forum, where your fanboi friends will accept you back into their non-moisture farm, non-sandbox, pro-Bioware, high octane intense action, non crafting camraderie and then when the game fails, you can blame the SWG Vets for being negative.
I have no idea why you make this personal. Really, I don't. The fact is, -YOU- missed what point I was trying to make in my original post. All you did was complain that I am (in your eyes) a whiney, mopey person, complaining that SWG was not what I wanted it to be (or something to that effect).
In reality, I only pointed out that the Star Wars movies were an epic story and that's that. Comparing Star Wars Galaxies to the original movies and saying the game was everything the movies were just does not fit. Didn't say anything else. Whatever other issues you brought up have nothing to do with that anymore. You went on to complain about the Old Republic setting, about too many Jedi about god knows what.
Why you need to resort to insults to strengthen your arguments, I don't know. Maybe you get the same kind of pleasure from it as you get from putting phrases at the end of a post that you can feel smug about knowing where others don't know? Because no, I do not know what it means. I could google it, but frankly, you are not worth the effort anymore. Not after degrading your own, so far quite interesting posts into an insult-fling-fest.
I shall indeed -crawl- back to the TOR forums, where I can have a decent conversation and write my stories and be glad about a game coming out, being made by a company I believe in.
For every other poster I have argued with in this thread: Star Wars Galaxies was a fun game. I enjoyed it while I played it, -DESPITE- its flaws which were there. But no, I did not think it captured the spirit of the original Trilogy movies. The person I have quoted obviously cannot differentiate between the two things.
I'm going to refrain from going back and quoting every point I want to make (reply to someone else) so I'll leave them in one response.
The Jedi were not the focal point of the original trilogy. Yes, his powers and the fact that his father was a Jedi... meeting of Obi Wan, etc had Jedi elements to it, it wasn't the primary focus. The focus was a battle between "good" and "evil" (I liked the Empire myself) in a world that was forced into a civil war between the Rebellion and the Empire. The fact that Moff's came into power to control planets, Admirals of fleets, Generals of Stormtrooper Armies had NOTHING to do with the force. The reason he made those movies first is because they had substance. The other three were very bland.
I don't want to play a pre-quel game, or anything having to do with the era before it. The Knights games were ok... nothing spectacular, and I played them all. After the first for PC it really wasn't revolutionary anymore. It was a sci-fi game set in a world distant from what I know as Star Wars. Of course all the new fans of the saga will only know the new trilogy... and I use that term trilogy lightly. They've read the NJO books, watched the tv show, and played the games all centered on the clone wars.
It's silly to me, sorry but Jedi, Sith, none of that interests me. I'd love nothing more than to sport a Stormtrooper uniform, and do battle on Hoth against hundreds of other players. Maybe steer an AT-AT or other such vehicle. But, we'll never see that outside of the already completed games until people get a grasp on their senses.
Honestly... what are half if not more of population going to be in that game if they have the right off the bat choice? Of course they're going to pick a force user. I don't care if you balance the classes out (which they never will be), you'll still have these fools running all over the place with lightsabers in their hands. LAME.
What these devs don't understand is that a class like Jedi can NOT be made available easily. The best part about pre-CU was that it took CONSIDERABLE effort to get Jedi. Even then I think it was way too easy. One a month is what I proposed on the forums... don't let any more than that be made. Of course they didn't listen and then they had too many. Same will happen here. People will try out the other classes, but they will want to be a Jedi. Why? Because that's what the movies, books, and shows are doing.
The days of Timothy Zahn's Empire and the Galactic Civil War are over. Until people start re-seeding their roots, we'll never go full circle. They'll keep making these "Same Old Republic" games until people are completely put off on Star Wars.
The problem is the fan base pre-prequel... is small. It rose a bit when they re-released the movies as the younger generation finally got their taste, but the fact is anyone who saw the original in the theater probably has a full time job, family, etc and doesn't play games like they used to. The younger crowd is what's taking over and unfortunately they just don't know.
SWG had the biggest player base, and most innovative system (allowing for ENDLESS possibilities in crafting, housing, entertainment professions, and with the mix and match system of the class trees) that made it a very enjoyable game. It only failed because it tried to capture the new generation and forget where it came from. They had HUGE success on the original trilogy era, and should have stuck with it. I remember servers packed to the gills with troopers, rebels, RPers, non-RPers, dancers, doctors, pilots... etc. It was a fantastic world created on the one thing I loved most at the time. But after it dove face first into the ground and LucasArts/LucasFilms or whoever is responsible now, turned it into the mess it is now, I have a hard time loving it like I used to.
This game wont solve that. This game wont appease the masses that felt left out after the SWG crash and burn. This wont appease the fan base that rose this franchise to its height. I wish it was the solution, and that it'll be great... but I'm sorry but anything involving Jedi as a selectable class is very suspect. I'll give it a try, don't get me wrong... but I can't say this will be anything we've not seen before.
Sigh.... F. For Fail. Thats what I grade your analysis of my post. You've managed to completely miss everything I've said. I would like to try and explain what I've said in a more basic, rudimentary way, although I'm afraid you'll get your little red marker pen out and whine about how you're right and I'm wrong. Honestly, I don't know how I could simplify this further. I could have more constructive conversation with a shit chucking ape. Perhaps you should crawl back into the TOR forum, where your fanboi friends will accept you back into their non-moisture farm, non-sandbox, pro-Bioware, high octane intense action, non crafting camraderie and then when the game fails, you can blame the SWG Vets for being negative.
I have no idea why you make this personal. Really, I don't. The fact is, -YOU- missed what point I was trying to make in my original post. All you did was complain that I am (in your eyes) a whiney, mopey person, complaining that SWG was not what I wanted it to be (or something to that effect).
In reality, I only pointed out that the Star Wars movies were an epic story and that's that. Comparing Star Wars Galaxies to the original movies and saying the game was everything the movies were just does not fit. Didn't say anything else. Whatever other issues you brought up have nothing to do with that anymore. You went on to complain about the Old Republic setting, about too many Jedi about god knows what.
Why you need to resort to insults to strengthen your arguments, I don't know. Maybe you get the same kind of pleasure from it as you get from putting phrases at the end of a post that you can feel smug about knowing where others don't know? Because no, I do not know what it means. I could google it, but frankly, you are not worth the effort anymore. Not after degrading your own, so far quite interesting posts into an insult-fling-fest.
I shall indeed -crawl- back to the TOR forums, where I can have a decent conversation and write my stories and be glad about a game coming out, being made by a company I believe in.
For every other poster I have argued with in this thread: Star Wars Galaxies was a fun game. I enjoyed it while I played it, -DESPITE- its flaws which were there. But no, I did not think it captured the spirit of the original Trilogy movies. The person I have quoted obviously cannot differentiate between the two things.
Good night and enjoy the continuing discussions.
Oh purleaaaaaaaaaaaaase.
I write a step by step debunking of ALL of your points and you pick the most feeble parts of my argument to discuss backing it up with no evidence, that in itself is infuriating, so much of my original post you have simply ignored has you have no response to it and you have done it again this time focussing only on some light hearted banter. What's wrong, not got anything else to say?
I put the phrase at the end because it rounds off my post rather nicely, if you chose pride, ignorance and laziness over knowledge, what does that say about you..?
If you want to play TOR, go ahead, no one is stopping you, but for you to feel offended by what I've said means you need to get a grip mate. Personally, I find it patronising when you write posts and feel I am not quite able enough to take account of your emphasis on certain things by putting a - either side of a word, but I wouldn't ignore the main point of your post because I don't have nothing to respond. Have I said anything about it before now? No, because unlike you, I was focussing on the matter at hand rather than going off on a completely different tangent.
If you can't accept a different opinion, as well as compromise, you should not be posting yours..
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
ok so you dont like biowares idea. Thats too bad, because im pretty sure its going to be a fun ride. What your looking for is not what the mass market is looking for anymore im afraid. The days of the sandbox mmo have come to a close as far as I can see, which is a shame, I love them too, but I can learn to love something different. If you cant learn to evolve with the video game industry your going to miss out bub.
I question that what the video game industry is doing could actually be called "evolving" A lot of times it seems more like "stagnating" to me as far as creativity and innovation are concerned. In any event I feel the OPs' pain as far as Jedi and SWG goes. That was what ruined it for me also. I didn't even mind the combat and class changes as much. If they had gotten rid of the Jedi there's a good chance I'd stil be playing. Having said that, I haven't completely written this new game off. Although it has Jedi I realize it's a different game and I'll wait for more info before deciding to try it or not. I have become less interested in it though, especially since I just learned they are planning on some kind of RMT system.
Well, even if it IS stagnateing as you say, thats evolution if you want to get technical, but in the end I disagree with your assement...
Yeah that's fine. I think for the most part it's probably a subjective topic anyway, no absolute rights or wrongs. I'm not claiming that it definitely is stagnating, just that lately it frequently seems that way to me. But my real point was this: I don't believe that all changes are good just because they are change, some can be negative as well, and I'm not obligated or required to embrace or love every new change as something great and positive simply because it is a change.
Originally posted by Dosska Yeah that's fine. I think for the most part it's probably a subjective topic anyway, no absolute rights or wrongs. I'm not claiming that it definitely is stagnating, just that lately it frequently seems that way to me. But my real point was this: I don't believe that all changes are good just because they are change, some can be negative as well, and I'm not obligated or required to embrace or love every new change as something great and positive simply because it is a change.
Yeah I could care less what someone calls it at this point. Things just kinda blow at this point. We have a bunch of companies drooling over Blizzards success and instead of creating the next big thing, everyone's trying to create something to compete with WoW. Blizzard proved that there are millions of gamers out there waiting for the right game to come along but everyone seems hellbent on fighting over WoWs customers.
Well I can see where the OP is coming from. No space flight and you can bet far too many People playing Jedi are significant negatives that stand out from the information we have available to us at the moment.
We will just have to wait and see how Bioware overcomes these deficiencies. Remember Bioware has zero experience doing MMO's. This is a huge step up from their successful games of the past.
I am taking a wait and see attitude at the moment, but I will laugh heartily at anyone extolling this game too.
If SWG did what EVE Online has done the last 6 years, building upon their foundation, fixing bugs, tweaking features and adding more content, then SWG would have more then 600k subs.
Greetings
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Comments
My thoughts? These kind of posts get old. People who want SWG version 2.0 are disappointed with TOR, I get that. Because it will most definately not be. People on the other hand who loved the KOTOR games, might be more happy about that.
What makes you right and us wrong? Or to put it more bluntly, Star Wars Galaxies had its shot. SOE ruined it. Time for the next episode. And until you have more info on it, you might want to be a little more careful with your -story- and if you want to stick with it. After all, neither you nor I know how this game is going to play out.
All we know is, it won't be SWG version 2.0. If that alone makes you angry, then I would advise you to ignore this game and look for one of the upcoming Sandbox titles, such as Earthrise, Fallen Earth, Mortal Online etc. You might even wanna check out EVE.
Wow I didn't see this one coming lol. We get it, you are anti-player housing and anti-crafting, you bring up the same exaggerated player housing and moisture farmer bit every time someone references SWG and it gets really old. Guess what? People like crafting and they like harvesting. If they didn't, neither would be in every successful MMO in some form or another.
I enjoyed KOTOR too but after spending a week or two going thru each game, it was just another single player game to remove and move on. To keep players paying a monthly fee there has to be some alternative advancement in place, like crafting, harvesting, pvp or something other than questing or it will be the same thing, play for a week or two, and uninstall. Excellent story writing will keep people interested for a little while but most people skip the fluff and will expect the normal things that keep them coming back month after month.
No. You got me completely wrong.
I have no problem with crafting. I have no problem with housing. I didn't even have a huge problem with player-housing as it was implemented in SWG. I didn't much care for it, but hey, to each their own.
But to say that the original Star Wars was about -THAT- is just blatantly wrong. Period. The original Star Wars was an epic story, about Luke and his friends, fighting an evil emperor and rescuing a princess in the process. It was about dramatic fights, it was about moral dilemmas. It was _NOT- about building your own home and being a moisture farmer on Tattooine.
I simply detest people who tell me that the original Trilogy was all about the "Little Man" and about "Life" in the Star Wars universe, because it was not. It was about -HEROES- in the Star Wars universe.
That's what I pointed out and if you would watch the original movies again, you might actually see that it is true.
Crafting and Community aspects are important in MMO's. To varying degrees. I've called for strong social functionality in this game before. Social hubs, cantinas and the like, I personally don't care much for crafting, but I know it is a necessary component in such a game because people enjoy it. Quit reading into my posts what you want to see so you can try to bash them.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My thoughts? These kind of posts get old. People who want SWG version 2.0 are disappointed with TOR, I get that. Because it will most definately not be. People on the other hand who loved the KOTOR games, might be more happy about that.
What makes you right and us wrong? Or to put it more bluntly, Star Wars Galaxies had its shot. SOE ruined it. Time for the next episode. And until you have more info on it, you might want to be a little more careful with your -story- and if you want to stick with it. After all, neither you nor I know how this game is going to play out.
All we know is, it won't be SWG version 2.0. If that alone makes you angry, then I would advise you to ignore this game and look for one of the upcoming Sandbox titles, such as Earthrise, Fallen Earth, Mortal Online etc. You might even wanna check out EVE.
So, you are saying the correct Star Wars ---MMO--- should be everyone plays as Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader?
Does no one these days realize that an MMO is inherently different from a single player game / movie / book?
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
No. You got me completely wrong.
I have no problem with crafting. I have no problem with housing. I didn't even have a huge problem with player-housing as it was implemented in SWG. I didn't much care for it, but hey, to each their own.
But to say that the original Star Wars was about -THAT- is just blatantly wrong. Period. The original Star Wars was an epic story, about Luke and his friends, fighting an evil emperor and rescuing a princess in the process. It was about dramatic fights, it was about moral dilemmas. It was _NOT- about building your own home and being a moisture farmer on Tattooine.
I simply detest people who tell me that the original Trilogy was all about the "Little Man" and about "Life" in the Star Wars universe, because it was not. It was about -HEROES- in the Star Wars universe.
That's what I pointed out and if you would watch the original movies again, you might actually see that it is true.
Crafting and Community aspects are important in MMO's. To varying degrees. I've called for strong social functionality in this game before. Social hubs, cantinas and the like, I personally don't care much for crafting, but I know it is a necessary component in such a game because people enjoy it. Quit reading into my posts what you want to see so you can try to bash them.
Double post.
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
Currently playing: Law Degree, American Football.
No. I'm saying the original trilogy was about heroes and about epic stories, not about everyday life. *sighs*
Why are you people so adamant about the opinion that a good game has to be a Life-Simulator? If you are so eager to play a normal life, I hear Second Life is the perfect Sandbox. And there's always The Sims if you want to play offline.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
No. You got me completely wrong.
I have no problem with crafting. I have no problem with housing. I didn't even have a huge problem with player-housing as it was implemented in SWG. I didn't much care for it, but hey, to each their own.
But to say that the original Star Wars was about -THAT- is just blatantly wrong. Period. The original Star Wars was an epic story, about Luke and his friends, fighting an evil emperor and rescuing a princess in the process. It was about dramatic fights, it was about moral dilemmas. It was _NOT- about building your own home and being a moisture farmer on Tattooine.
I simply detest people who tell me that the original Trilogy was all about the "Little Man" and about "Life" in the Star Wars universe, because it was not. It was about -HEROES- in the Star Wars universe.
That's what I pointed out and if you would watch the original movies again, you might actually see that it is true.
Crafting and Community aspects are important in MMO's. To varying degrees. I've called for strong social functionality in this game before. Social hubs, cantinas and the like, I personally don't care much for crafting, but I know it is a necessary component in such a game because people enjoy it. Quit reading into my posts what you want to see so you can try to bash them.
Three characters. You cannot emulate the story of three characters and transpose them to what Bioware hope to be hundreds of thousands of characters. How individual do you really think these story paths are going to be? How original? How unique?
You also cite this "moisture farmer" nonsense in reference to . You're quoting directly from SOE's marketing team when they were trying to plug the NGE, perhaps that is the game for you...?
You also try to argue that
Yeah, I'm using a term widely known in the Star Wars universe. Shame on me. Oh my god. -.-
And how dependand are you on other players to make your gaming experience fun and entertaining? You're saying you cannot enjoy a game where the possibility exists that someone else has done the same thing you have done a couple of times? You should stop playing MMO's then.
For crying out loud. You act as though it is impossible to enjoy a game if there's even a slim chance that someone else has the same experience as you do. What's so frikkin bad about that? Never mind that, if you are creative enough, you can adjust your story to your own needs any time, in any game.
And if you want a Life-Simulator, as I stated above, there's Second Life. I hear they have some excellent Star Wars areas, too (serious).
Edit: Also, I am mostly looking forward to TOR because it is set in the Old Republic universe. Sorry, no NGE can give me that. ^^
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
No. I'm saying the original trilogy was about heroes and about epic stories, not about everyday life. *sighs*
Why are you people so adamant about the opinion that a good game has to be a Life-Simulator? If you are so eager to play a normal life, I hear Second Life is the perfect Sandbox. And there's always The Sims if you want to play offline.
So you don't think that everyone being a "hero" doesn't ruin what the point of being a "hero" is? And if my assumption is correct, it would mean that it is infact your philosophy that wants to get rid of the heroicness and epicness from the movies, not mine.
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
The entire point of MMOs is to play WITH other people. If you think people shouldn't be dependent on others for fun, maybe it is you that shouldn't be playing MMOs then. Also, the NGE is actually very similar to what TOR is trying to do (minus the single player KOTOR story).
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
No. I'm saying the original trilogy was about heroes and about epic stories, not about everyday life. *sighs*
Why are you people so adamant about the opinion that a good game has to be a Life-Simulator? If you are so eager to play a normal life, I hear Second Life is the perfect Sandbox. And there's always The Sims if you want to play offline.
So you don't think that everyone being a "hero" doesn't ruin what the point of being a "hero" is?
No, actually, I do not. Not in an MMO.
Let me explain why: There can be more than -one- hero at a time in a galaxy. Now you will say, "but it's THOUSANDS" of heroes. Well, given that our lovely Earth has about 7 billion inhabitants right now, let's say we use that same number for average, then apply it to a Star Wars world. Couldn't it be possible that in a galaxy of (let's say we only have 10 planets in the game) 60 billion people, we have a couple of thousand heroes? Why is that so hard to imagine.
Isn't every soldier fighting in the war for their cause, risking their life to save that which they believe in or that which they love a hero? Isn't every medic who saves a life of a soldier on the battlefield, or saving a civilian who got in the crossfire a hero? Isn't every mechanic who manages to keep the engines of the ship running in the heat of battle while risking their lives to do so, a hero?
Just because you are the hero, it doesn't mean you are the only heroic person around. The bulk of the galaxy (in other words, the NPC's) are the normal people in these games. Those people running around on the streets controlled by the computer. The player controlled characters are the heroes. Those who stand out, those who rise above the average. *shrug* I don#t see why there is a problem if there is more than one of those.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
The entire point of MMOs is to play WITH other people. If you think people shouldn't be dependent on others for fun, maybe it is you that shouldn't be playing MMOs then. Also, the NGE is actually very similar to what TOR is trying to do (minus the single player KOTOR story).
Yes. -WITH- other people. But why do you have to have a completely different gaming experience from the other person? What do you care if the other player has played the same quest just now? What do you care if he started out on the same world, or has the same class?
And as I stated above, the NGE is not for me for several reasons, one of them being that I like the Old Republic timeline much better. Not to mention that there is a difference if you design a game from the ground up towards a certain goal, or if you suddenly change it from one thing to another.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
The entire point of MMOs is to play WITH other people. If you think people shouldn't be dependent on others for fun, maybe it is you that shouldn't be playing MMOs then. Also, the NGE is actually very similar to what TOR is trying to do (minus the single player KOTOR story).
Yes. -WITH- other people. But why do you have to have a completely different gaming experience from the other person? What do you care if the other player has played the same quest just now? What do you care if he started out on the same world, or has the same class?
And as I stated above, the NGE is not for me for several reasons, one of them being that I like the Old Republic timeline much better. Not to mention that there is a difference if you design a game from the ground up towards a certain goal, or if you suddenly change it from one thing to another.
I'll reply to both (don't feel like quoting both though).
I think there is a very critical distinction to be made. First of all, I think that a lot of players' experiences should be similar. "I've killed a rat." "So have I!" Here is the problem: when you introduce the gameplay as an "epic/heroic/etc." story, it should only be done once. You can't have two people kill the criminal boss who can only really die once. In an MMO, a single player story like this doesn't work simply because it is an MMO. Small tasks / non-epic tasks should routinely be done by many, but a single player story should only be done by a single player. How should stories be done in MMOs then? Developers need to expand upon what they have already done - except make it vastly better. For example, in SWG there was once a droid invasion of Bestine. (I use SWG to keep the Star Wars motiff - but pretty much most MMOs pre-wow have had community events). How was this story resolved? By the masses of players. Sure, many players missed out, but that is why developers need to figure out good ways of doing these sorts of things / regularly having content. I'm not saying everything needs to be done by everyone. People can go off and do parts on their own (or the majority if you will) - BUT these things have to make sense. You can't tell everyone to go kill Jabba the Hutt (and have everyone succeed). Why? Because it is not possible lore-wise and because it completely breaks the immersion (which is a major part of stories). Hell, the immersion in TOR is broken right off the bat because you know you aren't really making any decisions.
Now on to the other one: You hit the nail right on the head! Yes, all players in an MMO should be above "common folk". (In a sandbox - players should be whatever they want). How far above though? Everyone who has ever made the argument that they should be just like it was in the movies - which is everyone who supports TOR - is aiming way too high. How many Luke Skywalkers were there in the Galaxy? One. How many soldiers were there in the Galaxy? I don't know...there were vast amounts doing many heroic things. There's a vast difference between a hero / someone important and a legendary, epic, hero of all time. What TOR aims to do (LucasArts and EA LOVE this), is translate the movies into an MMO, but they have zero regard for what an MMO actually is. It is like shoving square pegs into round holes. It is actually more like filling a banana with air (which doesn't even make sense). You CAN have the playerbase be heroic, but you CAN'T have the playerbase be legends (which is what they are aiming to do - even you won't deny this). It defeats its own purpose. It's like making a game were every is (here come the buzzwords) saintly, divine, pure, and ultimately good - yet you make the only playable class in the game Satan (it defeats the purpose).
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
No. You got me completely wrong.
I have no problem with crafting. I have no problem with housing. I didn't even have a huge problem with player-housing as it was implemented in SWG. I didn't much care for it, but hey, to each their own.
But to say that the original Star Wars was about -THAT- is just blatantly wrong. Period. The original Star Wars was an epic story, about Luke and his friends, fighting an evil emperor and rescuing a princess in the process. It was about dramatic fights, it was about moral dilemmas. It was _NOT- about building your own home and being a moisture farmer on Tattooine.
I simply detest people who tell me that the original Trilogy was all about the "Little Man" and about "Life" in the Star Wars universe, because it was not. It was about -HEROES- in the Star Wars universe.
That's what I pointed out and if you would watch the original movies again, you might actually see that it is true.
Crafting and Community aspects are important in MMO's. To varying degrees. I've called for strong social functionality in this game before. Social hubs, cantinas and the like, I personally don't care much for crafting, but I know it is a necessary component in such a game because people enjoy it. Quit reading into my posts what you want to see so you can try to bash them.
A few characters. You cannot emulate the story of a few characters and transpose them to what Bioware hopes to be hundreds of thousands of virtual characters. How individual do you really think these story paths are going to be? How original? How unique? It just does not work. The clue is in the name of the genre: MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER. That means that the inferred heroism they want to make you feel is lost in translation when you consider everyone is just as good. Therein lies the problem.
MMOs do not give god like status to individual players, you are a small part of something big.
You cite this "moisture farmer" nonsense in reference to the gaming experience of SWG. You're quoting directly from SOE's marketing team when they were trying to plug the NGE, perhaps that is the game for you...? Do you honestly think that is an accurate description of SWG? What you seem to forget about SWG are its finer points, rather than the shit parts. Granted, urban sprawl was a bit of a joke, and there were plenty of other problems like fight clubs etc, but you dispute men with pet rancors? The ugly topless guy in Jabba's palace was the rancor's master, read the lore, and in a universe where pissy little cells in someone's blood can be somehow used to telekinetically manipulate objects would suggest that having a pet alien would not be too far removed from reality, don't you think?
Did you ever play SWG properly? Some of my best moments in MMO gaming came in SWG, defending my guild town, attacking our rivals, launching attacks on Star Destroyers, but there was also a good social element, like meeting people in the cantina or waiting in the starport for a shuttle. Not to mention how the players ran the economy. You don't find it fun, that's fine, but don't patronise the people that did enjoy it.
You also try to argue that the Jedi's dominace of the story is justification for everyone being able to be Jedi in the game simply because "back then there were loads" (TOR era). If consistency is what you base your argument on, tell me how a grunt is supposed to confidently take on a Jedi, and win? You might argue they are "elite". Trite. If the path to becoming a Jedi is so hard, A) why should you be simply allowed to click your mouse and become one (seeing as that would enormously inconsistent with the story) and
why would someone with such prowess and potential even bother becoming trying to become a Jedi seeing as he could simply become "elite" and not put himself through the hassle? In fact, what would be the point in the Jedi anyway if they were so martially inept? What kind of a feared and respected organisation would the Jedi Order be if an average joe could bully their members? THAT would be inconsistency, no?
To further this Jedi point, I really cannot see how someone can justify the point "there were plenty of jedi back then". By plenty, we'd be talking thousands here, as that is how many people will play them. Its a small selective order ! Do you honestly think such a small organisation could sufficiently scout that many force sensitive beings across the galaxy, and then oversee the training of THOUSANDS of aspiring Jedi whilst still possessing the wit to ensure NONE of them are tempted by the dark side on top of maintaning an exorbitant standard of training to ensure their quality is unquestionable? I don't see it buddy. The Jedi order is not a factory, and if it had the capability to produce thousands in the TOR era, why would they have stopped this practice (you don't see thousands of Jedi in E1-3).
With regard to the other classes, they don't excite me; trooper and bounty hunter, along with 2 jedi classes. I wonder what they are going to be? Its kind of obvious, don't you think? There is nothing original here. The hype this game has received based unfounded. Bioware could lead you blindfolded off the edge of a cliff, and many people would happily follow. What are you basing this on, previous titles? Based on what I've seen so far (a few planets and the same bog standard player professions) this game is neither unique nor worth of all its attention. Sufficient certainty is what should be looked for in a game in development, not chasing of shadows and expectation. As good as KOTOR1&2 were, the were single player games, you could be the hero, Leeds Utd and the Miami Dolphins used to dominate their respective sports. Where are they now? I honestly believe that the developer's secrecy is down to the fact that they are only hatching another WoW clone.
Res Ipsa Loqitur....
PS I don't care for SWG anymore.
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
Currently playing: Law Degree, American Football.
Thanks actually, for bringing the posts together. ^^
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
No one has said Star Wars was about crafting or harvesting or player housing, you are just implying that those were the only features available in SWG. They were each in SWG because they keep people playing between large battles and quests. People want to craft, people want to harvest, some of us even want player housing, it doesn't mean that those are the only things that should be in the game.
There are plenty of people out there that do not want to be Darth Vader or Princess Leia, and forcing them into that type role will just alienate them. There are entire guilds and communities willing to try this game out but by alienating those who enjoy playing "the little man" you limit your potential player-base.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
No one has said Star Wars was about crafting or harvesting or player housing, you are just implying that those were the only features available in SWG. They were each in SWG because they keep people playing between large battles and quests. People want to craft, people want to harvest, some of us even want player housing, it doesn't mean that those are the only things that should be in the game.
There are plenty of people out there that do not want to be Darth Vader or Princess Leia, and forcing them into that type role will just alienate them. There are entire guilds and communities willing to try this game out but by alienating those who enjoy playing "the little man" you limit your potential player-base.
*sigh*
OK, for the last time: I took someone's post, someone who claimed that Star Wars galaxies represented the spirit of the original trilogy. I disputed this. I -NEVER- said crafting shouldn#t be in a game. I never said social activities shouldn#t be in a game. Nor did I say housing shouldn't be in a game.
But I -DID- point out that the original Star Wars was a -HEROIC- story. Period. The spirit of the original Star Wars was not about the droid engineer in his back-yard shop (tired of being accused of using SOE pep talk), or about a dancer in a cantina. That's -ALL- I said in my post.
Sure Star Wars Galaxies had other things to it. Never claimed otherwise. I played it for 2 years and played in Beta. I -do- know what the game had to offer.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Sigh....
F. For Fail. Thats what I grade your analysis of my post.
You've managed to completely miss everything I've said. I would like to try and explain what I've said in a more basic, rudimentary way, although I'm afraid you'll get your little red marker pen out and whine about how you're right and I'm wrong. Honestly, I don't know how I could simplify this further. I could have more constructive conversation with a shit chucking ape.
Perhaps you should crawl back into the TOR forum, where your fanboi friends will accept you back into their non-moisture farm, non-sandbox, pro-Bioware, high octane intense action, non crafting camraderie and then when the game fails, you can blame the SWG Vets for being negative.
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
Currently playing: Law Degree, American Football.
I have no idea why you make this personal. Really, I don't. The fact is, -YOU- missed what point I was trying to make in my original post. All you did was complain that I am (in your eyes) a whiney, mopey person, complaining that SWG was not what I wanted it to be (or something to that effect).
In reality, I only pointed out that the Star Wars movies were an epic story and that's that. Comparing Star Wars Galaxies to the original movies and saying the game was everything the movies were just does not fit. Didn't say anything else. Whatever other issues you brought up have nothing to do with that anymore. You went on to complain about the Old Republic setting, about too many Jedi about god knows what.
Why you need to resort to insults to strengthen your arguments, I don't know. Maybe you get the same kind of pleasure from it as you get from putting phrases at the end of a post that you can feel smug about knowing where others don't know? Because no, I do not know what it means. I could google it, but frankly, you are not worth the effort anymore. Not after degrading your own, so far quite interesting posts into an insult-fling-fest.
I shall indeed -crawl- back to the TOR forums, where I can have a decent conversation and write my stories and be glad about a game coming out, being made by a company I believe in.
For every other poster I have argued with in this thread: Star Wars Galaxies was a fun game. I enjoyed it while I played it, -DESPITE- its flaws which were there. But no, I did not think it captured the spirit of the original Trilogy movies. The person I have quoted obviously cannot differentiate between the two things.
Good night and enjoy the continuing discussions.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
I'm going to refrain from going back and quoting every point I want to make (reply to someone else) so I'll leave them in one response.
The Jedi were not the focal point of the original trilogy. Yes, his powers and the fact that his father was a Jedi... meeting of Obi Wan, etc had Jedi elements to it, it wasn't the primary focus. The focus was a battle between "good" and "evil" (I liked the Empire myself) in a world that was forced into a civil war between the Rebellion and the Empire. The fact that Moff's came into power to control planets, Admirals of fleets, Generals of Stormtrooper Armies had NOTHING to do with the force. The reason he made those movies first is because they had substance. The other three were very bland.
I don't want to play a pre-quel game, or anything having to do with the era before it. The Knights games were ok... nothing spectacular, and I played them all. After the first for PC it really wasn't revolutionary anymore. It was a sci-fi game set in a world distant from what I know as Star Wars. Of course all the new fans of the saga will only know the new trilogy... and I use that term trilogy lightly. They've read the NJO books, watched the tv show, and played the games all centered on the clone wars.
It's silly to me, sorry but Jedi, Sith, none of that interests me. I'd love nothing more than to sport a Stormtrooper uniform, and do battle on Hoth against hundreds of other players. Maybe steer an AT-AT or other such vehicle. But, we'll never see that outside of the already completed games until people get a grasp on their senses.
Honestly... what are half if not more of population going to be in that game if they have the right off the bat choice? Of course they're going to pick a force user. I don't care if you balance the classes out (which they never will be), you'll still have these fools running all over the place with lightsabers in their hands. LAME.
What these devs don't understand is that a class like Jedi can NOT be made available easily. The best part about pre-CU was that it took CONSIDERABLE effort to get Jedi. Even then I think it was way too easy. One a month is what I proposed on the forums... don't let any more than that be made. Of course they didn't listen and then they had too many. Same will happen here. People will try out the other classes, but they will want to be a Jedi. Why? Because that's what the movies, books, and shows are doing.
The days of Timothy Zahn's Empire and the Galactic Civil War are over. Until people start re-seeding their roots, we'll never go full circle. They'll keep making these "Same Old Republic" games until people are completely put off on Star Wars.
The problem is the fan base pre-prequel... is small. It rose a bit when they re-released the movies as the younger generation finally got their taste, but the fact is anyone who saw the original in the theater probably has a full time job, family, etc and doesn't play games like they used to. The younger crowd is what's taking over and unfortunately they just don't know.
SWG had the biggest player base, and most innovative system (allowing for ENDLESS possibilities in crafting, housing, entertainment professions, and with the mix and match system of the class trees) that made it a very enjoyable game. It only failed because it tried to capture the new generation and forget where it came from. They had HUGE success on the original trilogy era, and should have stuck with it. I remember servers packed to the gills with troopers, rebels, RPers, non-RPers, dancers, doctors, pilots... etc. It was a fantastic world created on the one thing I loved most at the time. But after it dove face first into the ground and LucasArts/LucasFilms or whoever is responsible now, turned it into the mess it is now, I have a hard time loving it like I used to.
This game wont solve that. This game wont appease the masses that felt left out after the SWG crash and burn. This wont appease the fan base that rose this franchise to its height. I wish it was the solution, and that it'll be great... but I'm sorry but anything involving Jedi as a selectable class is very suspect. I'll give it a try, don't get me wrong... but I can't say this will be anything we've not seen before.
I have no idea why you make this personal. Really, I don't. The fact is, -YOU- missed what point I was trying to make in my original post. All you did was complain that I am (in your eyes) a whiney, mopey person, complaining that SWG was not what I wanted it to be (or something to that effect).
In reality, I only pointed out that the Star Wars movies were an epic story and that's that. Comparing Star Wars Galaxies to the original movies and saying the game was everything the movies were just does not fit. Didn't say anything else. Whatever other issues you brought up have nothing to do with that anymore. You went on to complain about the Old Republic setting, about too many Jedi about god knows what.
Why you need to resort to insults to strengthen your arguments, I don't know. Maybe you get the same kind of pleasure from it as you get from putting phrases at the end of a post that you can feel smug about knowing where others don't know? Because no, I do not know what it means. I could google it, but frankly, you are not worth the effort anymore. Not after degrading your own, so far quite interesting posts into an insult-fling-fest.
I shall indeed -crawl- back to the TOR forums, where I can have a decent conversation and write my stories and be glad about a game coming out, being made by a company I believe in.
For every other poster I have argued with in this thread: Star Wars Galaxies was a fun game. I enjoyed it while I played it, -DESPITE- its flaws which were there. But no, I did not think it captured the spirit of the original Trilogy movies. The person I have quoted obviously cannot differentiate between the two things.
Good night and enjoy the continuing discussions.
Oh purleaaaaaaaaaaaaase.
I write a step by step debunking of ALL of your points and you pick the most feeble parts of my argument to discuss backing it up with no evidence, that in itself is infuriating, so much of my original post you have simply ignored has you have no response to it and you have done it again this time focussing only on some light hearted banter. What's wrong, not got anything else to say?
I put the phrase at the end because it rounds off my post rather nicely, if you chose pride, ignorance and laziness over knowledge, what does that say about you..?
If you want to play TOR, go ahead, no one is stopping you, but for you to feel offended by what I've said means you need to get a grip mate. Personally, I find it patronising when you write posts and feel I am not quite able enough to take account of your emphasis on certain things by putting a - either side of a word, but I wouldn't ignore the main point of your post because I don't have nothing to respond. Have I said anything about it before now? No, because unlike you, I was focussing on the matter at hand rather than going off on a completely different tangent.
If you can't accept a different opinion, as well as compromise, you should not be posting yours..
Played: SWG, Tibia, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, WAR, LotRO, Guild Wars.
Currently playing: Law Degree, American Football.
I question that what the video game industry is doing could actually be called "evolving" A lot of times it seems more like "stagnating" to me as far as creativity and innovation are concerned. In any event I feel the OPs' pain as far as Jedi and SWG goes. That was what ruined it for me also. I didn't even mind the combat and class changes as much. If they had gotten rid of the Jedi there's a good chance I'd stil be playing. Having said that, I haven't completely written this new game off. Although it has Jedi I realize it's a different game and I'll wait for more info before deciding to try it or not. I have become less interested in it though, especially since I just learned they are planning on some kind of RMT system.
Well, even if it IS stagnateing as you say, thats evolution if you want to get technical, but in the end I disagree with your assement...
Yeah that's fine. I think for the most part it's probably a subjective topic anyway, no absolute rights or wrongs. I'm not claiming that it definitely is stagnating, just that lately it frequently seems that way to me. But my real point was this: I don't believe that all changes are good just because they are change, some can be negative as well, and I'm not obligated or required to embrace or love every new change as something great and positive simply because it is a change.
Yeah I could care less what someone calls it at this point. Things just kinda blow at this point. We have a bunch of companies drooling over Blizzards success and instead of creating the next big thing, everyone's trying to create something to compete with WoW. Blizzard proved that there are millions of gamers out there waiting for the right game to come along but everyone seems hellbent on fighting over WoWs customers.
Well I can see where the OP is coming from. No space flight and you can bet far too many People playing Jedi are significant negatives that stand out from the information we have available to us at the moment.
We will just have to wait and see how Bioware overcomes these deficiencies. Remember Bioware has zero experience doing MMO's. This is a huge step up from their successful games of the past.
I am taking a wait and see attitude at the moment, but I will laugh heartily at anyone extolling this game too.
Rip SWG
If SWG did what EVE Online has done the last 6 years, building upon their foundation, fixing bugs, tweaking features and adding more content, then SWG would have more then 600k subs.
Greetings
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
What about the original SWG embodied the TRUE Star Wars saga?
Was it the walking around everywhere, the home decorating, or killing of millions of vicous giant chickens to become a master of kung foo?
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im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good