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Don't think twitch based combat in an MMORPG will work - play Mount and Blade first...
Teala
Member RarePosts: 7,627
Don't think twitch based combat in an MMORPG will work - play Mount and Blade first...then come back and give an opinion. Personally I think the combat in Mount and Blade could work and work very well in an MMORPG and I pray to the gamer Gods that be that some day an MMORPG will come along that uses the same combat mechanics as Mount and Blade.
Before it is said...no Darkfall does not have Mount and Blade combat mechanics. Neither does Mortal Online. Had to get that out of the way.
Seriously though. It would be incredibly awesome to see a game like Vanguard or Age of Conan use the Mount and Blade combat system. I do not know how they would handle magic...maybe they would have to come up with a whole new magic system for such a game...but the melee, ranged and combat from horeback would definitely rock!
Look...download the free demo of Mount and Blade and see how combat in MMORPGs should be.
Mount and Blade <<<< download demo here.
Comments
Couple of questions. I dont have time to play the demo, so I'd like your opinion. First, what is is about MO and DF that misses the style of combat that MB has, other than mounted ranged combat?
Secondly, What is it about the Vanguard and AoC platform that leads you to wish MB combat style would be incorporated in to them and not other titles?
Tried it. Hated it.
Not saying Devs shouldn't make games that cater to what the OP wants. If there's a market for it, and it can be done, someone should make it. But I won't be playing it.
I will play Call of Duty, or Battlefield now andx then, or whatever teh new shooter is, but it won't satisfy me when I want to play a Computer RPG.
I found Mount & Blade to be a lot of fun for a while. I'm always open to new ideas for the genre.
You can also try
Planetside
Savage 2: A Tortured Soul
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I played the demo a while ago, imo, the game is awful.
The combat is slow,clunky and without depth. It's clear the developes wanted it to be realistic but in this case, realistic equals boring,
Thanks, but I think I'll stick to something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGHxvr4K37E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TFZeV1Zg-4&feature=related
Mount & Blade twitch? hah, something as slow as that can hardly be considered twitch. Pop in Ninja Gaiden and you'll see what twitch in an action hack & slash (or Beat em up) game really is like.
Well, I'd like to see how it held up in a multpilayer game at least before trying to jump headlong into a MMO environment. I own the game, and found it an ok game for a few weeks, but gets repetitive after that (no multi-player).
That said, I wouldn't play a game just because it had a MB combat system. It's have to have ALOT more to it than just that. I've seen what happens when devs put all their money on "combat, combat,combat" and it led to a really dry-tasting game to me. Stick that combat in, add a crafting system on par with SWG's (pre NGE) and add in a really large, deep guild/alliances/land owning system/diplomatic system and then, I think you might have something.
Combat isn't king, and developers need to realize this. Putting all their eggs in the combat basket has gotten them, and this genre, nowhere.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Couple of questions. I dont have time to play the demo, so I'd like your opinion. First, what is is about MO and DF that misses the style of combat that MB has, other than mounted ranged combat?
Secondly, What is it about the Vanguard and AoC platform that leads you to wish MB combat style would be incorporated in to them and not other titles?
Sorry you don't have the time to download and play the demo, but it really is best for you to play the game to see what I am talking about. M&B combat is nothing like DF and MO's combat...in fact DF's and MO's are not even remotely close to M&B's combat. Your best bet to get a feel for twitch mele combat is to download the game and try it.
I'll assume you hated Morrowind, Oblivion, Gothic, Ultima Underworld, Arx Fatalis, Deus Ex and all the other CRPG's that used twitch combat.
LOL! Oh god, Mount and Blade is not an arcade game. It is a medieval sim game. As for speed of combat...you must have only played to the level 7 cap in the demo because the games combat picks up dramatically as your character progresses. Hehehe...my scimitar weilding bandit queen is awesome in melee combat.
LOL! Oh god, Mount and Blade is not an arcade game. It is a medieval sim game. As for speed of combat...you must have only played to the level 7 cap in the demo because the games combat picks up dramatically as your character progresses. Hehehe...my scimitar weilding bandit queen is awesome in melee combat.
But thats the whole problem with it, it's attempt at realism.
In my opinion, realism means restriction, A combat system like those found in Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry open up a lot more possibilities for depth and skill than a realistic combat system like in Mount & Blade.
I never really understood why so many indie devs want a "realistic combat system". It doesn't feel like i'm actually fighting at all, all it does is remind me how boring reality is.
If you're interested in real time action mmorpg's, you should look into TERA Online:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5R4X_0R-C4
See that is just it. I am saying take Mount and Blades combat system and put it into a game like Vanguard with all it's other game play - like crafting, town building, and what not. OMG how I would love M&B's combat in a game like Vangaurd! OMG! I would have a game gasm! ::huge grin::
Shields that actually block things! Combat from horse back!
Look, before casting judgement on M&B's combat system and character progression system...play it first. I am telling you. Once you play it and go to a game like WoW...you're going to be "God...let me have M&B's combat system now!"
LOL! Oh god, Mount and Blade is not an arcade game. It is a medieval sim game. As for speed of combat...you must have only played to the level 7 cap in the demo because the games combat picks up dramatically as your character progresses. Hehehe...my scimitar weilding bandit queen is awesome in melee combat.
But thats the whole problem with it, it's attempt at realism.
In my opinion, realism means restriction, A combat system like those found in Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry open up a lot more possibilities for depth and skill than a realistic combat system like in Mount & Blade.
I never really understood why so many indie devs want a "realistic combat system". It doesn't feel like i'm actually fighting at all, all it does is remind me how boring reality is.
If you're interested in real time action mmorpg's, you should look into TERA Online:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5R4X_0R-C4
You only played the demo...OMG. The character progression system in M&B is like old school UO in many ways and the more you use the skill the better your character becomes at it. The difference being that say you take up two handed swords...well your character will be clumsy and slow at first...but as it uses it...it becomes easier to use and faster. Just like in real life! That slow combat and awkwardness goes away with time...just like in real life. Combat becomes much more intense and timing becomes critical.
Did you actually get into a seige in M&B playing the demo? OMG...the wholesale carnage of a seige can get pretty intense.
Mount & Blade is a masterpiece. On the level of MULE, Baldurs Gate 2, God of War2, KOTOR2, Tetris, Pacman and Arcanoid.
Is made by a turk couple, so the production values are limited, but still... you get the impression there are more on the world that you will ever taste AND the gameplay is unlimited. Not like these Civi or Colonyzation games that end in 1900. Is infinite gameplay, much like how Elite was. Probably Mount & Blade is "Elite Plus" for the 2009.
I can write a fucking 2000 lines article about the damn game... and I am not a fanboy of it.
It is innovative in its game play and combat - that is for sure. OMG...first time that I played it and got into archery from horseback I was hooked!
Couple of questions. I dont have time to play the demo, so I'd like your opinion. First, what is is about MO and DF that misses the style of combat that MB has, other than mounted ranged combat?
Secondly, What is it about the Vanguard and AoC platform that leads you to wish MB combat style would be incorporated in to them and not other titles?
Sorry you don't have the time to download and play the demo, but it really is best for you to play the game to see what I am talking about. M&B combat is nothing like DF and MO's combat...in fact DF's and MO's are not even remotely close to M&B's combat. Your best bet to get a feel for twitch mele combat is to download the game and try it.
Again, I'd like your opinion. I understand twitch combat and have played it, but appreciate insight from other players on their rationale for a decision, really. So,
1. What is is about the twitch-style MO and DF combat that misses the style of combat that MB has, other than mounted ranged combat?
2. What is it about the Vanguard and AoC platform that leads you to wish MB combat style would be incorporated in to them and not other titles?
heyo..
@op.. there is a M&B online component coming out this summer as an expac including a new faction.
the online will be more arena esk, than campaign co-op BUT there is rumor that that might come later on, as an mmorpg should the community gathers more strength.
I am a huge fan of M&B and its playstyle. Keep in mind that the game itself was an indie pet that actually made it out of the free ware market and published with acclaim. (NOT the publishing house the actual word) the game itself is not for everyone, and the mechanics of combat are something that could use some polish, but I agree with you in the hopes that someday its budgeted for greater growth.
the M&B community is top notch and its following the appropriate progressions for an indie, starting with a single, then online, and hopefully mmo. but again as mentioned on the M&B forums its developement and future is based on its success as it is now, to help develop its future without "selling the farm".
it is afterall a dev team of less than 5 in its origin and at that a remarkable achievement. M&B is an incredible game for those looking for casual play or as a second hobby to a main mmorpg. It is a fantastic model for a future mmorpg release..
cheers
d
"He who reigns within himself and rules his passions, desires, and fears is more than a king."
"Where there is much desire to learn, there of necessity will be much argruing, much writting, many opinions; for opinions in good men is but knowledge in the making."
John Milton 1608-1674
Savage 2 is a RPG, RTS, FPS hybrid. You can play a limited version of it for free (only 1 hellborn unit etc.), but the "upgraded" version is cheep, and s2games deserve the cash.
Download it at http://savage2.com/en/
I'll assume you hated Morrowind, Oblivion, Gothic, Ultima Underworld, Arx Fatalis, Deus Ex and all the other CRPG's that used twitch combat.
Multi-player vs single player. Not the same thing.
I'll assume you hated Morrowind, Oblivion, Gothic, Ultima Underworld, Arx Fatalis, Deus Ex and all the other CRPG's that used twitch combat.
Multi-player vs single player. Not the same thing.
Multiplayer and single player has nothing to do with it. You enjoy RPG systems, insted of FPS or twitch based. This is not uncommon with RPG players.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I'll assume you hated Morrowind, Oblivion, Gothic, Ultima Underworld, Arx Fatalis, Deus Ex and all the other CRPG's that used twitch combat.
Multi-player vs single player. Not the same thing.
I guess having other players around has some influence on what type of combat system you like. Seems odd, but that's okay. I've seen stranger things before.
Couple of questions. I dont have time to play the demo, so I'd like your opinion. First, what is is about MO and DF that misses the style of combat that MB has, other than mounted ranged combat?
Secondly, What is it about the Vanguard and AoC platform that leads you to wish MB combat style would be incorporated in to them and not other titles?
Sorry you don't have the time to download and play the demo, but it really is best for you to play the game to see what I am talking about. M&B combat is nothing like DF and MO's combat...in fact DF's and MO's are not even remotely close to M&B's combat. Your best bet to get a feel for twitch mele combat is to download the game and try it.
Again, I'd like your opinion. I understand twitch combat and have played it, but appreciate insight from other players on their rationale for a decision, really. So,
1. What is is about the twitch-style MO and DF combat that misses the style of combat that MB has, other than mounted ranged combat?
Well in DF and MO you have one vertical and one horizontal strike. In M&B you have you can slash, you can swing down, thrust, and jab and all at different angles and you can parry as well. Shields actually do more than just add to your over all AC. You can block strikes with them! Block arrows! Weapons also vary in their style of use. A short sword does less damage, but it is a much faster weapon. A two hand axe is devastating and can even crush shields. Maces can not only crush shields, but can knock an opponent to the ground. You have thrown weapons like knives, axes, javelins, darts...and yeah...they do work and yeah they do show up in the target when you hit it. You can use any weapon you can get your hands on. Whether your characterr is profecient with it depends on if you are willing to spend the time using it. It is all skill based. So the more your character uses a weapon the better it becomes with it - just like an MMORPG.
Character stats like you find in an MMORPG play a part in M&B combat just like an MMORPG. For instance you might come across a sword that requires certain stats to be able to weild it - not unlike any other MMORPG on the market. The higher the skill of your character, the better the weapon it can wield. This doesn't mean you have one button to mash to win, like in MMORPG's though. Because you still have to aim your shots and hope the opponent doesn't block or parry your blow.
2. What is it about the Vanguard and AoC platform that leads you to wish MB combat style would be incorporated in to them and not other titles?
Because those games using M&B's combat system would rock. Imagine riding out into combat with plate mail, a shield and a lance. Can you do that in Vanguard? NO. Imagine defending a castle from a horde of orcs or what not. Can you stand on the walls of a castle and defend it from those orcs? No.
Imagine playing a ranger and you have to aim your bow. Depending on where you hit the target...you could kill it in one shot and tht would also depend on the creature or mob itself of course...but the dynamics of archery in M&B and an MMORPG are like night and day...and the archery in M&B beats any you find in games like AoC and Vanguard anyday..anywhere. M&B's archery is just totally awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'll assume you hated Morrowind, Oblivion, Gothic, Ultima Underworld, Arx Fatalis, Deus Ex and all the other CRPG's that used twitch combat.
Multi-player vs single player. Not the same thing.
I guess having other players around has some influence on what type of combat system you like. Seems odd, but that's okay. I've seen stranger things before.
Doesn't seem odd at all, since the play completely differently. IN an action RPG, yuou save game. You can play the same scenario over and over, till you overcome it, and then move on with the story. The A.I. NPC is going to do the same thing over and over. You can leave, skill up, level up, get better gear, etc. them come back later, and the obstacle will still be just like you left it so you can over come it.
That isn't anything like how a Multi player game works.
I did it all the time in Fallout 3. Oh, I've wondered somewhere that's a little bit to tough. No big deal, I'll come back and finish this off later. It will be just like I left it when I come back.
There are problems with twitch combat such as latency, hit detection and more, but I believe one developer might step it up in the future. I would love a System Shock 2 like MMORPG.
edit: M&B was a very fun game, and it does look like a realistic medieval sim as the developers claimed, combat involves momentum, equipment is not Diablo based, skills are meaninful (mostly). But there are still problems when implementing such twitch combat system in a MMORPG.
F' you all! Now I need to reinstall M&B and SS2. I haven't even finished Arx Fatalis yet and it was this forum that made me reinstall that one too. MMORPG.com made me reinstall all my single player games. Go figure!
I guess I needed SOMETHING to do until the next batch of MMOG's comes out.
I agree and we have seen other twitch based combat system that would work too, like in Daggerfall/Morrowwind/Oblivion.
I would like to see a slightly more advanced system then we seen before, maybe even one using a Wii controler.
DFs system however is just too simple in a melee game. A melee is a beutiful and quite advance thing, ask anyone who actually been in a mock one.
I saw a tournament with knights riding against eachother yesterday, it would be really cool to have a knight based MMO where you could hold tournaments as a PvP and PvE competition even on PvE servers. Lance is also something that works great with twitching
Mounted combat have been in many MMOs but it havn't been well done in a single one. I want knights to ride in formation with lances down, that is really cool stuf.