Seriously, people, are we going to debate every damn aspect of the SW:TOR v. WOW and Bioware VS. Blizzard argument for the next year+ until the game releases? It really is getting old and threads like these only invite fanboi/troll arguments and debates and nothing more. Honestly, debating Bioware and Blizzard games is like debating apples versus oranges. Blizzard make easy, very approachable, fun games that are designed to appeal to as many people as possible. Bioware makes major story driven RPG's, focused on excellent combat, that are fun but at the same time, a lot more in-depth than a Blizzard game. The two companies develop different games that, for the most part, represent some very large groups in the general gaming population. Debating it is pointless.
See, you can compare it just fine, it just takes some effort.
Two high quality companies both putting out well made mmos can only help us the customers. Neither one has to knock the other out and hopefully neither one will. Competition breeds better products for everyone.
Agreed. This is something that has been lacking for some time. I think WoW tapped all the elements of the shallow story, loot item based mmo. Its an era that is dying. The new age mmo is going to be story based and immersive.
and when you come to the end of the story?
For the sake of argument, let's assume an insanely fast leveling experience from start to max level, one month. That means that out of the box, you have a minimum of 8 months of story content to experience, one for each class. Then consider that the storylines branch. Even if there were only two branches for each class, a light and a dark, that gets us from 8 months to 16. If there is enough choice variety for 3 fairly distinctive experiences within each class, we are up to 24 months. This is all with the out of the box content, without considering either potential expansion content, or PvP and PvE content that takes place outside of the class story. Any classes added to the game later would add a likely *minimum* of 2 months worth of content, and would probably be introduced in pairs, one for each side, so a minimum of 4 months content.
All of this assumes an unrealistically fast leveling experience, and even doing that, you get 1-2 years of content out of the box. Sounds pretty good to me.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
If your statement is anywhere near the truth then your game is doomed. It's sad that you have to talk about your game in referrence to wow... sort of like bioware's trailer did. It means it can't stand well on its own like wow did. It's identity is wrapped up in beating another game... not good. Someone could develop a game "better" than wow but still not see anything near wow's success. Every post like this... in fact every link to a non-wow game here currently should be suffixed by this article and closed to all further discussion. The world waits for dev's to finally get it.
I like Bioware, but look who had the most games in the top 10 for years and years now, Blizzard. South Korea basically has sold it's soul to Starcraft, i don't see any other game company haveing that kind of following for a game so old..i dunno, Blizzard is in a whole other league. Bioware is awesome but they aren't at the level of Blizzard, just the way it is when you look at the big picture. If SWTOR end up with more subs then WoW then good for them, then again they would be beating a over 4 yr old game...not sure i would be overly proud of that lol. People get to caught up in this crap though, in the end it doesn't matter who has the Top MMO, it just matters about having a good time in the game of your choice. As long as Bioware keeps away from the "We need to beat blizzard" thinking then they should be fine and their game will be fun. I plan on playing, but i'm not giving up Warcraft. =D
Bioware games:
# Shattered Steel (1996)
# Baldur's Gate (1998)
# Baldur's Gate: Tales of the Sword Coast (1999)
# MDK2 (2000)
# Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn (2000)
# Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal (2001)
# Neverwinter Nights (2002)
# Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide (2003)
# Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark (2003)
# Neverwinter Nights: Kingmaker (2005)
# Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (2003)
# Jade Empire (2005)
# Mass Effect (2007)
Blizzard games:
RPM Racing[5] 1991 racing game
Battle Chess (Windows and Commodore 64 ports)[8] 1992 chess
Battle Chess II: Chinese Chess (Amiga port)[8] 1992 puzzle game
J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I (Amiga port)[8] 1992 role-playing game
Castles (Amiga port)[5] 1992 strategy
MicroLeague Baseball (Amiga port)[5] 1992 sport
Lexi-Cross (Macintosh port)[5] 1992 game show
Dvorak on Typing (Macintosh port)[5] 1992 education
The Death and Return of Superman[9] 1994 side-scrolling beat 'em up
Warcraft: Orcs & Humans 1994 fantasy real-time strategy game
The Lost Vikings II 1995 platform game
Justice League Task Force[10] 1995 fighting game
Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness 1995 fantasy real-time strategy game
Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal 1996 expansion pack
Diablo 1996 action-oriented fantasy role-playing game
StarCraft 1998 science fiction real-time strategy game
StarCraft: Brood War 1998 expansion pack
Warcraft II: Battle.net Edition 1999 fantasy real-time strategy game
Diablo II 2000 action-oriented fantasy role-playing game
Diablo II: Lord of Destruction 2001 expansion pack
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos 2002 fantasy real-time strategy game
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne 2003 expansion pack
World of Warcraft 2004 MMORPG set in the Warcraft universe.
World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade 2007 expansion pack
World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King
Looks pretty close race to me (expansions not colormarked). Blizzard made a lot of more games but they have about the same numbers of great hit games. The reason I don't count the expansions BTW is that an expansion to a hit game will sell automaticly but they have about the same number of expansions also.
You can't rule out that WoW had the number 1 spot until about 7 months before it release its expansion....which it gained it back for a few more monthes. Just tossing that in there
Bioware is the best RPG game company hands down...
Hello, Horkathane, I would like to introduce you to my friend Bethesda Softworks...
Bethesda hasn't made a real RPG since Daggerfall. Which yes, was a great game. Morrowind and Oblivion were both decent hack-and-slash, semi-shooteresque adventure games with statistics, but they don't deserve to be called RPGs. Where were the choices? The most complex choice in either of those core games was "Do this quest, or not do it." Once you made the decision to do it, there was one way to do it, only, with no choices. And they were both collections of *completely* unrelated quest chains. You could play the entire storyline for a given guild, it could only play out one way, and regardless of what you did it would have absolutely no effect on anything outside of that guild. Bethesda was once a great company that could have competed with BioWare. But not at any point over the last decade.
And that post-apocalyptic Oblivion with guns, a decent game judged solely on its own merits, but nowhere close to being deserving of the name Fallout.
Wether you want to call it Fallout or not, it was a smash hit and a best seller, and a RPG, just not the way you like it. Plus they are working on putting it into MMO.
Like someone said before, I lke my RPG's opened ended. I enjoy KOTOR very much, but I give credit to where credit is due. And Bethesda deserves more than what you are giving them
If your statement is anywhere near the truth then your game is doomed. It's sad that you have to talk about your game in referrence to wow... sort of like bioware's trailer did. It means it can't stand well on its own like wow did. It's identity is wrapped up in beating another game... not good. Someone could develop a game "better" than wow but still not see anything near wow's success. Every post like this... in fact every link to a non-wow game here currently should be suffixed by this article and closed to all further discussion. The world waits for dev's to finally get it.
LOL the only reason WoW got popular was becasue the idiots at Sony killed swg witht he CU. It was stated that Blizzard was worried that swg would kill them but lucky for them Sony likes to commit suicide.
If its a good game i dont care if it beats Blizzard or not. Would it be bad to have SWTOR only have 9 million subs instead of 10? If SWTOR does get more subs than WOW it doesnt mean Blizzard is going anywhere.
I will never understand why one has to "beat" the other one. They are two products, just go and put your money on the one you feel deserves it more compared to what you get out from it, and let the other people put their money where they wanto to and move on.
My dad is bigger than your dad. My dad is a fireman he beats your dad My dad is a policeman and he has a gun ... etc.
Basicaly - 5 year old behaviour :P
I will never understand why one has to "beat" the other one. They are two products, just go and put your money on the one you feel deserves it more compared to what you get out from it, and let the other people put their money where they wanto to and move on.
How dare you have a rational thought on this site.
Wether you want to call it Fallout or not, it was a smash hit and a best seller, and a RPG, just not the way you like it. Plus they are working on putting it into MMO. Like someone said before, I lke my RPG's opened ended. I enjoy KOTOR very much, but I give credit to where credit is due. And Bethesda deserves more than what you are giving them
I have purchased and enjoyed every major Bethesda "RPG," and freely admit that they make the best adventure games with statistics in the business. I won't even argue if you want to call them RPG-Lite. But the essence of real RPGs is player choice, and their take on Fallout was the first time they have even *attempted* to provide any meaningful player choice in a core game since the release of Daggerfall. And, unfortunately for story based RPG fans, few of the choices even in "Fallout" 3 were very meaningful, and they were for the most part scattered through the side quests, with the main story running on rails and having an incredibly poorly done ending. The most satisfying way (for me) to play that game is if you just ignore the main story completely, because it is by far the weakest link, and focus on some of the better written side quests.
I have far higher hopes for the Obsidian produced Fallout game in Vegas, they may not be quite up to the BioWare standard, but at least they make the same kind of games. It is all a matter of taste, and if your taste runs to well written stories which include a large degree of player choice, BioWare is indeed far greater than Bethesda. And Blizzard doesn't even belong in the conversation.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Hold up, wait, hold up wait! So you think Blizzard can balance classes like Wows classes better than Biowares balancing in Baulders gate? Hmm I think not. Bioware is the best RPG game company hands down now they are going to take that and make it massive. MMORPG? Hmm ok so you are saying...what?
Sorry but this really bothers me...
It's: BALDUR'S GATE not.... bah...
Creativity : The ability to transcend traditional ideas, rules, patterns, relationships, or the like, and to create meaningful new ideas, forms, methods or interpretations; using originality, progressiveness, or imagination.
If its a good game i dont care if it beats Blizzard or not. Would it be bad to have SWTOR only have 9 million subs instead of 10? If SWTOR does get more subs than WOW it doesnt mean Blizzard is going anywhere.
Does Star Wars appeal to Chineese? What everyone forgets is that more than 3/4 of WOW's population is in China. Me I think this game will bring in maybe 1 million players, but that is a pretty big number, thiers only a couple million North American mmo players and a couple million European mmo players, and alot of those players are already taken by the mmos out thier. I think its up to the market at the time this game launches. Will thier be a good population that will try this game? Me Ill play cause it looks like it will be a fun single player game, but will it appeal to a large population?
1. Blizzard made big on wow cause it was tailored to the mass population. Blizzard them selves made a game based on lore that was put in place but was able to twist it to fit thier MMO. Warcraft lore Vs Star Wars lore though is like compareing an apple to an orange
Warcraft is going to end with this Exp Blizzard has already started working on a New MMO that has not be announced yet but it has nothing to do with Warcraft/Starcraft or diablo. So meaning that Warcraft is coming to its end after Arthas dies nothing more it was blizzards intent to make WoW and play it out they never thought it would have been as big as it was.
Blizzard as a company is great at marketing thier games and we seen over the years the funny wow commericals on TV the interent advertisments ect ect. But when it comes to stories and content in my opnion Blizzard lacks.. All thier stuff has been rinse wash and repeat and they them selves have not really done anything amazing since the last Exp BC.
People more or less play wow now cause there really is not much else to choose from out there that has as easy of a playing curve as wow does or the games them selves are really old and people do not want to go to a Vet community. Lets be honest Raiding for one, how many of us out there like to raid with 24 other players that fall into one of these groups Kids/Married couples with limited play time/Teenagers who rather drink then raid anyways/Hardcore fanatics that scream in vent when you wipe on grobulas/Raid leaders who think thier way is the only way/ ect ect.... In my opnion wow is going to die yes it just is not going to happen as quick as everyone thinks. People said UO would die and hell they been around since 97 and still have an active community.
2. Bioware has proven they can make a compeling story with some great added twists... They have made some very good RPG titles but they lack the experiance in the MMO world there will be alot of hit and miss with this game, I do think however they will be good enough to overcome some short comings.
Now do I think right out of the box SW:TOR is going to solve all my MMO woes...Doubtful I will say the first 3 months of a MMO will make or break it and I hope they know the constant nerfs that most MMO's do the first 3 months will kill the game like AoC/WAR/Darkfall ect ect...... They need to have a great beta test and a workable balance between jedi and the other classes if they can manage that I would hold on to my seats cause Tor will be amazing...
While I also prefer BioWare games, it really isn't fair to say they make "better" games, because the two companies don't even work in the same genres. BioWare has never made a strategy game, and Blizzard has never made a story driven RPG focused on player choice. And no, the Diablo games, while fantastic on their own merits, would not fall into the same category as BioWare games. Until the two companies attempt to make games that are actually in the same genre, there is no basis for saying which is better.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
If your statement is anywhere near the truth then your game is doomed. It's sad that you have to talk about your game in referrence to wow... sort of like bioware's trailer did. It means it can't stand well on its own like wow did. It's identity is wrapped up in beating another game... not good. Someone could develop a game "better" than wow but still not see anything near wow's success. Every post like this... in fact every link to a non-wow game here currently should be suffixed by this article and closed to all further discussion. The world waits for dev's to finally get it.
LOL the only reason WoW got popular was becasue the idiots at Sony killed swg witht he CU. It was stated that Blizzard was worried that swg would kill them but lucky for them Sony likes to commit suicide.
Cu didnt kill SWG, NGE did, before that the game never even hit 450k players, CU it had around 200k. After the NGE, most of those 200k left for other games. LOTR came out and then AOC, besides the incredable F-ups with this game, more people left for new games than the incredible mistakes SOE and LA made. SWG just never appealed to the the general player and WOW did, besides the 9 million Chineese that play WOW, how many do you think are going to play SWTOR?
WTF Who cares who is better as long as they are great games to enjoy- 2 each their own! I will be happy as long as Bioware dont do a Conan bomb on us! And both developers are good. I really don't think none of them really flopped in any of their gamex in my opionion.
There are tons of other factors to consider and all of the "SW:TOR will equal or inherit WOW's succes" or the "SW:TOR will fail, it will only last as long as the main story line" opinions are highly hypothetical. We will have to see how it does three months post launch.
'The proof is in the pudding' a.k.a. if the endgame is awesome, they might just have a chance.
Why does anyone need to beat anyone? Lets just hope that SW:ToR isnt garbage.
QFT
There is not going to be a company that has the finacial power to beat Blizzard for a very long time. Let's just hope SW:TOR isn't a steaming pile of crap, and that it launches when it is actually finished.
1. Blizzard made big on wow cause it was tailored to the mass population. Blizzard them selves made a game based on lore that was put in place but was able to twist it to fit thier MMO. Warcraft lore Vs Star Wars lore though is like compareing an apple to an orange Warcraft is going to end with this Exp Blizzard has already started working on a New MMO that has not be announced yet but it has nothing to do with Warcraft/Starcraft or diablo. So meaning that Warcraft is coming to its end after Arthas dies nothing more it was blizzards intent to make WoW and play it out they never thought it would have been as big as it was. Blizzard as a company is great at marketing thier games and we seen over the years the funny wow commericals on TV the interent advertisments ect ect. But when it comes to stories and content in my opnion Blizzard lacks.. All thier stuff has been rinse wash and repeat and they them selves have not really done anything amazing since the last Exp BC. People more or less play wow now cause there really is not much else to choose from out there that has as easy of a playing curve as wow does or the games them selves are really old and people do not want to go to a Vet community. Lets be honest Raiding for one, how many of us out there like to raid with 24 other players that fall into one of these groups Kids/Married couples with limited play time/Teenagers who rather drink then raid anyways/Hardcore fanatics that scream in vent when you wipe on grobulas/Raid leaders who think thier way is the only way/ ect ect.... In my opnion wow is going to die yes it just is not going to happen as quick as everyone thinks. People said UO would die and hell they been around since 97 and still have an active community. 2. Bioware has proven they can make a compeling story with some great added twists... They have made some very good RPG titles but they lack the experiance in the MMO world there will be alot of hit and miss with this game, I do think however they will be good enough to overcome some short comings. Now do I think right out of the box SW:TOR is going to solve all my MMO woes...Doubtful I will say the first 3 months of a MMO will make or break it and I hope they know the constant nerfs that most MMO's do the first 3 months will kill the game like AoC/WAR/Darkfall ect ect...... They need to have a great beta test and a workable balance between jedi and the other classes if they can manage that I would hold on to my seats cause Tor will be amazing...
You know what I hate about post like these? People try to predict the end or doom of WoW and try to tie that in to the suces of their new up and coming game. This has been same COUNTLESS times about wow...COUNTLESS and has yet to be proved right. Everyone seems to have the answer...but it fall incorrect everytime.
What's even worse, these same guys chew others out who try to predict the doom or the failure of SWTOR. Can't have it both ways.
Blizzard is a thriving company that is more than capable of handling their share of business, and I can promise you that they are not going anywhere anytime soon. How did Blizz become the eveil empire anyways?
If your statement is anywhere near the truth then your game is doomed. It's sad that you have to talk about your game in referrence to wow... sort of like bioware's trailer did. It means it can't stand well on its own like wow did. It's identity is wrapped up in beating another game... not good. Someone could develop a game "better" than wow but still not see anything near wow's success. Every post like this... in fact every link to a non-wow game here currently should be suffixed by this article and closed to all further discussion. The world waits for dev's to finally get it.
LOL the only reason WoW got popular was becasue the idiots at Sony killed swg witht he CU. It was stated that Blizzard was worried that swg would kill them but lucky for them Sony likes to commit suicide.
Cu didnt kill SWG, NGE did, before that the game never even hit 450k players, CU it had around 200k. After the NGE, most of those 200k left for other games. LOTR came out and then AOC, besides the incredable F-ups with this game, more people left for new games than the incredible mistakes SOE and LA made. SWG just never appealed to the the general player and WOW did, besides the 9 million Chineese that play WOW, how many do you think are going to play SWTOR?
I have to say that your wrong with your numbers SWG the first 2 years had 2 million active users hence the 2 million copies sold. SWG was popular at one time most people though did not play long enough to be a huge part of the community. So about 6 out of 10 players left the first 6 months they played the game. Wow took most of thier Subs from EQ 2 witch was also a flop and the remaining people from the older games DAOC/UO/EQ/Asherons call all started loosing thier nunbers after the first year wow was out.
So more then to say SOE killed them selvs then anything cause with all thier games combined they may have 1 million users between all thier games Vs the 11 million that plays wow.
Think its more then Obvious that SOE should just quit and call it a life and never ruin another MMO.
If its a good game i dont care if it beats Blizzard or not. Would it be bad to have SWTOR only have 9 million subs instead of 10? If SWTOR does get more subs than WOW it doesnt mean Blizzard is going anywhere.
Does Star Wars appeal to Chineese? What everyone forgets is that more than 3/4 of WOW's population is in China. Me I think this game will bring in maybe 1 million players, but that is a pretty big number, thiers only a couple million North American mmo players and a couple million European mmo players, and alot of those players are already taken by the mmos out thier. I think its up to the market at the time this game launches. Will thier be a good population that will try this game? Me Ill play cause it looks like it will be a fun single player game, but will it appeal to a large population?
Chinese Players dont even count...no offense but read this flash paper article
Chinese players dont subscribe and pay by the hour which amounts to like 4 cents an hour. They do not have ANY real impact on $$ and sure once you get 10 million of them then you are making $100k. The MMO market is HIGHLY profitable ONLY from Western subscribers (NA, EU, Australia).
Comments
See, you can compare it just fine, it just takes some effort.
QFT
Is this a mirror thread ?
and when you come to the end of the story?
For the sake of argument, let's assume an insanely fast leveling experience from start to max level, one month. That means that out of the box, you have a minimum of 8 months of story content to experience, one for each class. Then consider that the storylines branch. Even if there were only two branches for each class, a light and a dark, that gets us from 8 months to 16. If there is enough choice variety for 3 fairly distinctive experiences within each class, we are up to 24 months. This is all with the out of the box content, without considering either potential expansion content, or PvP and PvE content that takes place outside of the class story. Any classes added to the game later would add a likely *minimum* of 2 months worth of content, and would probably be introduced in pairs, one for each side, so a minimum of 4 months content.
All of this assumes an unrealistically fast leveling experience, and even doing that, you get 1-2 years of content out of the box. Sounds pretty good to me.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
If your statement is anywhere near the truth then your game is doomed. It's sad that you have to talk about your game in referrence to wow... sort of like bioware's trailer did. It means it can't stand well on its own like wow did. It's identity is wrapped up in beating another game... not good. Someone could develop a game "better" than wow but still not see anything near wow's success. Every post like this... in fact every link to a non-wow game here currently should be suffixed by this article and closed to all further discussion. The world waits for dev's to finally get it.
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadfeature=3070&bhcp=1
Bioware games:
# Shattered Steel (1996)
# Baldur's Gate (1998)
# Baldur's Gate: Tales of the Sword Coast (1999)
# MDK2 (2000)
# Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn (2000)
# Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal (2001)
# Neverwinter Nights (2002)
# Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide (2003)
# Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark (2003)
# Neverwinter Nights: Kingmaker (2005)
# Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (2003)
# Jade Empire (2005)
# Mass Effect (2007)
Blizzard games:
RPM Racing[5] 1991 racing game
Battle Chess (Windows and Commodore 64 ports)[8] 1992 chess
Battle Chess II: Chinese Chess (Amiga port)[8] 1992 puzzle game
J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, Vol. I (Amiga port)[8] 1992 role-playing game
Castles (Amiga port)[5] 1992 strategy
MicroLeague Baseball (Amiga port)[5] 1992 sport
Lexi-Cross (Macintosh port)[5] 1992 game show
Dvorak on Typing (Macintosh port)[5] 1992 education
The Lost Vikings[9] 1992 platform game
Rock N' Roll Racing[9] 1993 racing game
Shanghai II: Dragon's Eye[8] 1994 mahjong solitaire
Blackthorne[9] 1994 cinematic platform game
The Death and Return of Superman[9] 1994 side-scrolling beat 'em up
Warcraft: Orcs & Humans 1994 fantasy real-time strategy game
The Lost Vikings II 1995 platform game
Justice League Task Force[10] 1995 fighting game
Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness 1995 fantasy real-time strategy game
Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal 1996 expansion pack
Diablo 1996 action-oriented fantasy role-playing game
StarCraft 1998 science fiction real-time strategy game
StarCraft: Brood War 1998 expansion pack
Warcraft II: Battle.net Edition 1999 fantasy real-time strategy game
Diablo II 2000 action-oriented fantasy role-playing game
Diablo II: Lord of Destruction 2001 expansion pack
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos 2002 fantasy real-time strategy game
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne 2003 expansion pack
World of Warcraft 2004 MMORPG set in the Warcraft universe.
World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade 2007 expansion pack
World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King
Looks pretty close race to me (expansions not colormarked). Blizzard made a lot of more games but they have about the same numbers of great hit games. The reason I don't count the expansions BTW is that an expansion to a hit game will sell automaticly but they have about the same number of expansions also.
You can't rule out that WoW had the number 1 spot until about 7 months before it release its expansion....which it gained it back for a few more monthes. Just tossing that in there
Hello, Horkathane, I would like to introduce you to my friend Bethesda Softworks...
Bethesda hasn't made a real RPG since Daggerfall. Which yes, was a great game. Morrowind and Oblivion were both decent hack-and-slash, semi-shooteresque adventure games with statistics, but they don't deserve to be called RPGs. Where were the choices? The most complex choice in either of those core games was "Do this quest, or not do it." Once you made the decision to do it, there was one way to do it, only, with no choices. And they were both collections of *completely* unrelated quest chains. You could play the entire storyline for a given guild, it could only play out one way, and regardless of what you did it would have absolutely no effect on anything outside of that guild. Bethesda was once a great company that could have competed with BioWare. But not at any point over the last decade.
And that post-apocalyptic Oblivion with guns, a decent game judged solely on its own merits, but nowhere close to being deserving of the name Fallout.
Wether you want to call it Fallout or not, it was a smash hit and a best seller, and a RPG, just not the way you like it. Plus they are working on putting it into MMO.
Like someone said before, I lke my RPG's opened ended. I enjoy KOTOR very much, but I give credit to where credit is due. And Bethesda deserves more than what you are giving them
"Its an era that is dying"
Care to back up that statement with some facts instead of just your opinion?
If your statement is anywhere near the truth then your game is doomed. It's sad that you have to talk about your game in referrence to wow... sort of like bioware's trailer did. It means it can't stand well on its own like wow did. It's identity is wrapped up in beating another game... not good. Someone could develop a game "better" than wow but still not see anything near wow's success. Every post like this... in fact every link to a non-wow game here currently should be suffixed by this article and closed to all further discussion. The world waits for dev's to finally get it.
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadfeature=3070&bhcp=1
LOL the only reason WoW got popular was becasue the idiots at Sony killed swg witht he CU. It was stated that Blizzard was worried that swg would kill them but lucky for them Sony likes to commit suicide.
If its a good game i dont care if it beats Blizzard or not. Would it be bad to have SWTOR only have 9 million subs instead of 10? If SWTOR does get more subs than WOW it doesnt mean Blizzard is going anywhere.
My dad is bigger than your dad.
My dad is a fireman he beats your dad
My dad is a policeman and he has a gun
... etc.
Basicaly - 5 year old behaviour :P
I will never understand why one has to "beat" the other one. They are two products, just go and put your money on the one you feel deserves it more compared to what you get out from it, and let the other people put their money where they wanto to and move on.
How dare you have a rational thought on this site.
I have purchased and enjoyed every major Bethesda "RPG," and freely admit that they make the best adventure games with statistics in the business. I won't even argue if you want to call them RPG-Lite. But the essence of real RPGs is player choice, and their take on Fallout was the first time they have even *attempted* to provide any meaningful player choice in a core game since the release of Daggerfall. And, unfortunately for story based RPG fans, few of the choices even in "Fallout" 3 were very meaningful, and they were for the most part scattered through the side quests, with the main story running on rails and having an incredibly poorly done ending. The most satisfying way (for me) to play that game is if you just ignore the main story completely, because it is by far the weakest link, and focus on some of the better written side quests.
I have far higher hopes for the Obsidian produced Fallout game in Vegas, they may not be quite up to the BioWare standard, but at least they make the same kind of games. It is all a matter of taste, and if your taste runs to well written stories which include a large degree of player choice, BioWare is indeed far greater than Bethesda. And Blizzard doesn't even belong in the conversation.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Sorry but this really bothers me...
It's: BALDUR'S GATE not.... bah...
Creativity : The ability to transcend traditional ideas, rules, patterns, relationships, or the like, and to create meaningful new ideas, forms, methods or interpretations; using originality, progressiveness, or imagination.
Does Star Wars appeal to Chineese? What everyone forgets is that more than 3/4 of WOW's population is in China. Me I think this game will bring in maybe 1 million players, but that is a pretty big number, thiers only a couple million North American mmo players and a couple million European mmo players, and alot of those players are already taken by the mmos out thier. I think its up to the market at the time this game launches. Will thier be a good population that will try this game? Me Ill play cause it looks like it will be a fun single player game, but will it appeal to a large population?
Why does anyone need to beat anyone? Lets just hope that SW:ToR isnt garbage.
bioware make better games than blizzard.
1. Blizzard made big on wow cause it was tailored to the mass population. Blizzard them selves made a game based on lore that was put in place but was able to twist it to fit thier MMO. Warcraft lore Vs Star Wars lore though is like compareing an apple to an orange
Warcraft is going to end with this Exp Blizzard has already started working on a New MMO that has not be announced yet but it has nothing to do with Warcraft/Starcraft or diablo. So meaning that Warcraft is coming to its end after Arthas dies nothing more it was blizzards intent to make WoW and play it out they never thought it would have been as big as it was.
Blizzard as a company is great at marketing thier games and we seen over the years the funny wow commericals on TV the interent advertisments ect ect. But when it comes to stories and content in my opnion Blizzard lacks.. All thier stuff has been rinse wash and repeat and they them selves have not really done anything amazing since the last Exp BC.
People more or less play wow now cause there really is not much else to choose from out there that has as easy of a playing curve as wow does or the games them selves are really old and people do not want to go to a Vet community. Lets be honest Raiding for one, how many of us out there like to raid with 24 other players that fall into one of these groups Kids/Married couples with limited play time/Teenagers who rather drink then raid anyways/Hardcore fanatics that scream in vent when you wipe on grobulas/Raid leaders who think thier way is the only way/ ect ect.... In my opnion wow is going to die yes it just is not going to happen as quick as everyone thinks. People said UO would die and hell they been around since 97 and still have an active community.
2. Bioware has proven they can make a compeling story with some great added twists... They have made some very good RPG titles but they lack the experiance in the MMO world there will be alot of hit and miss with this game, I do think however they will be good enough to overcome some short comings.
Now do I think right out of the box SW:TOR is going to solve all my MMO woes...Doubtful I will say the first 3 months of a MMO will make or break it and I hope they know the constant nerfs that most MMO's do the first 3 months will kill the game like AoC/WAR/Darkfall ect ect...... They need to have a great beta test and a workable balance between jedi and the other classes if they can manage that I would hold on to my seats cause Tor will be amazing...
While I also prefer BioWare games, it really isn't fair to say they make "better" games, because the two companies don't even work in the same genres. BioWare has never made a strategy game, and Blizzard has never made a story driven RPG focused on player choice. And no, the Diablo games, while fantastic on their own merits, would not fall into the same category as BioWare games. Until the two companies attempt to make games that are actually in the same genre, there is no basis for saying which is better.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
If your statement is anywhere near the truth then your game is doomed. It's sad that you have to talk about your game in referrence to wow... sort of like bioware's trailer did. It means it can't stand well on its own like wow did. It's identity is wrapped up in beating another game... not good. Someone could develop a game "better" than wow but still not see anything near wow's success. Every post like this... in fact every link to a non-wow game here currently should be suffixed by this article and closed to all further discussion. The world waits for dev's to finally get it.
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadfeature=3070&bhcp=1
LOL the only reason WoW got popular was becasue the idiots at Sony killed swg witht he CU. It was stated that Blizzard was worried that swg would kill them but lucky for them Sony likes to commit suicide.
Cu didnt kill SWG, NGE did, before that the game never even hit 450k players, CU it had around 200k. After the NGE, most of those 200k left for other games. LOTR came out and then AOC, besides the incredable F-ups with this game, more people left for new games than the incredible mistakes SOE and LA made. SWG just never appealed to the the general player and WOW did, besides the 9 million Chineese that play WOW, how many do you think are going to play SWTOR?
WTF Who cares who is better as long as they are great games to enjoy- 2 each their own! I will be happy as long as Bioware dont do a Conan bomb on us! And both developers are good. I really don't think none of them really flopped in any of their gamex in my opionion.
Big IP + Great company =/= WOW 2.0
Basically.
There are tons of other factors to consider and all of the "SW:TOR will equal or inherit WOW's succes" or the "SW:TOR will fail, it will only last as long as the main story line" opinions are highly hypothetical. We will have to see how it does three months post launch.
'The proof is in the pudding' a.k.a. if the endgame is awesome, they might just have a chance.
My brand new bloggity blog.
QFT
There is not going to be a company that has the finacial power to beat Blizzard for a very long time. Let's just hope SW:TOR isn't a steaming pile of crap, and that it launches when it is actually finished.
Doktar - 70 Troll Priest - Perenolde
You know what I hate about post like these? People try to predict the end or doom of WoW and try to tie that in to the suces of their new up and coming game. This has been same COUNTLESS times about wow...COUNTLESS and has yet to be proved right. Everyone seems to have the answer...but it fall incorrect everytime.
What's even worse, these same guys chew others out who try to predict the doom or the failure of SWTOR. Can't have it both ways.
Blizzard is a thriving company that is more than capable of handling their share of business, and I can promise you that they are not going anywhere anytime soon. How did Blizz become the eveil empire anyways?
If your statement is anywhere near the truth then your game is doomed. It's sad that you have to talk about your game in referrence to wow... sort of like bioware's trailer did. It means it can't stand well on its own like wow did. It's identity is wrapped up in beating another game... not good. Someone could develop a game "better" than wow but still not see anything near wow's success. Every post like this... in fact every link to a non-wow game here currently should be suffixed by this article and closed to all further discussion. The world waits for dev's to finally get it.
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadfeature=3070&bhcp=1
LOL the only reason WoW got popular was becasue the idiots at Sony killed swg witht he CU. It was stated that Blizzard was worried that swg would kill them but lucky for them Sony likes to commit suicide.
Cu didnt kill SWG, NGE did, before that the game never even hit 450k players, CU it had around 200k. After the NGE, most of those 200k left for other games. LOTR came out and then AOC, besides the incredable F-ups with this game, more people left for new games than the incredible mistakes SOE and LA made. SWG just never appealed to the the general player and WOW did, besides the 9 million Chineese that play WOW, how many do you think are going to play SWTOR?
I have to say that your wrong with your numbers SWG the first 2 years had 2 million active users hence the 2 million copies sold. SWG was popular at one time most people though did not play long enough to be a huge part of the community. So about 6 out of 10 players left the first 6 months they played the game. Wow took most of thier Subs from EQ 2 witch was also a flop and the remaining people from the older games DAOC/UO/EQ/Asherons call all started loosing thier nunbers after the first year wow was out.
So more then to say SOE killed them selvs then anything cause with all thier games combined they may have 1 million users between all thier games Vs the 11 million that plays wow.
Think its more then Obvious that SOE should just quit and call it a life and never ruin another MMO.
Does Star Wars appeal to Chineese? What everyone forgets is that more than 3/4 of WOW's population is in China. Me I think this game will bring in maybe 1 million players, but that is a pretty big number, thiers only a couple million North American mmo players and a couple million European mmo players, and alot of those players are already taken by the mmos out thier. I think its up to the market at the time this game launches. Will thier be a good population that will try this game? Me Ill play cause it looks like it will be a fun single player game, but will it appeal to a large population?
Chinese Players dont even count...no offense but read this flash paper article
www.scribd.com/doc/3559825/Mmorpg-Rage
Chinese players dont subscribe and pay by the hour which amounts to like 4 cents an hour. They do not have ANY real impact on $$ and sure once you get 10 million of them then you are making $100k. The MMO market is HIGHLY profitable ONLY from Western subscribers (NA, EU, Australia).
Sorry bub.
P.S. Slide 33 has the direct info