One charecter is fine as long as its like FF11 and you can chnage your job anytime as mush as you like.
This was one of the best features in FF11.
1. The UI from console to PC.
Amen Brother preach on.
One final thing. I dont know if it changed but when FF11 released you couldn't select your server. That had to be the absolute worst feature ever put into an MMO. I know a friend could get on a server and level a little bit and give you a key but come on hehe.
Yeah, man for sure. The server thing needs to be addresed. Getting a world pass was just a pain in the ass. Hopefully they make it like most MMO's and you can just choose it at the beginning and that's it.
They need to keep the things that made the game difficult while taking away things that made the game tedious.
Some of the things that FF11 did(and I am currently playing) were done purposely to create longtime players, but I think they were cruelly taking advantage of the human beings ability to become addicted. AF2 can be difficult.. but near impossible is not fun. I dont know if I think things should take 2 or 3 years to get... Maybe they could just create new things instead of making us do the same thing for 3 years to get something(drops, hnms, bcnms, etc)
I dont know if me difficult vs. tedious point is very clear. But I just found myself constantly depressed by the fact that people I met and befriended had been doing the same things for a few years and were only halfway towards a goal...and some were only doing it because they were addicted, not out of enjoyment...very much the sort of "asian grindy" sort of feel people complain about... I enjoyed aspects of the difficulty, such as no "!" or "?" for quests and such... which promoted friends helping friends and community... but tedium created to create addicts and therefore longterm subs... well it only snagged around 500k and its mean... so I am hoping for different tactics this time ie. a little less addiction based on tedium and more based on fun
Also, the release better be universal if they intend to have multi nation/console servers... because leet-JP players is no fun.
I would really dig it if they removed the whole playonline system, I found it to be clunky and in the way. Just a simple standalone client, so I don't have to manage numerous usernames and passwords, and that I wouldn't have to install extra proprietary software just to play the game.
Biggest pain was when I ever got the itch to play FFXI again, I'd have to go dig up my old manuals with all the info scribbled in the back of em.
I still play FFXI, and it has come along way since it was launched. For the person who said they only got 500k, that's actually where the number is now, 7 years after launch. At one point they had around 1 million subscribers, and was number one before wow eventually dethroned it.
I would love to see the subjobs, all jobs with one character, the depth of endgame, the lower stats on armor (not that godly wow armor crap...its ridicoulous). I would also want them to make sure they don't make any areas obsolote, like blizzard has done with WoW. I like that in FFXI sky and dyna still have vital armor in them, and that they aren't obosolete. Also, keep skillchains, magic bursts, and exp pts. Maybe make it to where it's easier for someone to solo stuff for 100xp-120xp with less downtime, but still make it so that xps get the 200-300 xp, so we don't lose one of the best leveling systems in all of mmos.
Keep a player ran economy going, not this ghetto economy found in most mmos now. Keep jobs balanced on a per role basis, not the jack of all trades system that wow has. Would hate to see the new ff turned into a battle of how does the most damage, or who does the most healing. Support jobs are a great addition to an mmo, that ppl who only played wow have yet to experience.
Keep the strategy. This game take some serious strategy, make ffxiv the same way. Make it challenging, and as gratifying as ffxi is. When I beat CoP, man, did that feel good. Never felt that good playing any video game, ever. Keep crazy stuff like salvage (which has terrible drop rates, but is still fun as hell).
Keep the story, but maybe change the instances to be more interactive like LoTRO. Voice the quests and missions (similar to Age of Conan, but much better voice actors please). Add something like the public quest system that Warhammer has. And definitely keep levey sync.
Also, keep the macro system about the same (more lines per macro would be better), and still create armor that is really only usefull as macro pieces.
Keep crafting important, but, maybe make the grind a little easier. Too many games these days the crafting is a joke. Atleast in FFXI you can find a very usefull recipe in almost every crafting tier. Can't say the same about WoW, LoTRO, etc.
I doubt we will get too many customization options for the characters, so how about just making it to where we can dye our armor, so everyone doesn't wear the same color. I'd have some purple and black homam, ffs.
Fix up the linkshell interface, please. Warhammer has a good guild interface you should look at SE.
Let us have our houses in instanced neighberhoods, or even in the game world, and allow us to have more options with them.
Also, keep the weather, day of week, moon cycle, and all those little elements that play important roles behind the scene. You have the deepest mmo of all the modern mmos already, so just carry some of that over and ppl can't cry that their is a lack of depth at launch.
Keep the campaign, and besieged style battles. Also, keep the BCNM's, KSNM's, etc. ISNM's are such a great way to make money, leave that option in the game for ppl who don't like to craft.
Reduce the healing time between battles, but don't elimanate it (or we would lose the reason we have brds, rdms, cors). Fix the smn, so it can actually have it's smns out and isn't a ghetto healer. Fix the beast so it will get pt invites. Ban all ppl who say lolpup (XD).
If you have a blue mage, please, for the love of god...don't make learning the spells that damn tedious.
Speed up combat some, but not too much. Don't need it to be so fast that it takes the strategy out of each fight.
I don't care about pvp much, but if you add it, maybe make it like an arena battle, and some instanced battleground sort of crap. But, don't balance the jobs for pvp. Make it to wear the player has to do that on his own depending on subjobs etc. Or maybe, make it to where a proper group setup is important in pvp. But, in the end, make it to where pvp can award xp.
KEEP XP LOSS. nothign worse than always shelling out money to repair gear, or having an item break in a dungeon. Keep it so players are punished for death, not just tickled with a feather.
SE, you've made so many changes to XI over the years, that the game is by far my favorite. It is different than any other mmo out there, and that's why I love it. If you can make XiV different, and still challenging and rewarding, and not a joke like modern mmos, then I will be playing both games at launch. But, if you cater to the casual gamer, who typically is fickle and fairweather, then, you will lose the hardcore base that has made FFXI one of the most successfull mmos (No server merges since launch, and more subscribers than everygame that came out after it except wow). Keep the japanese design philoshpy, and keep it a ff.
PS...Keep all regions on the same server, this elimanates the problems of peak/off times that a lot of games have. I never have problems finding ppl to play with in ffxi, and that auto transalate feature is the bomb.
I loved FFXI, and like most here, it was bittersweet due to many of the mechanics. Below I've bulleted a few keeps and changes I'd like to see.
Keeps:
Story via cutscenes - this was brilliant. First time I'd seen it in an MMO and I'll never forget them.
Job System - so much flexibility and customization could be built into this. I love it.
XP loss on death - this was a real penalty. none of this "ghost-run round 2" stuff. Think before you act, I say.
HNMs
Advanced jobs
Linkshells - LOVE this system. It was awesome that I wasn't tied to one specific LS.
Changes:
Soloabilty - Idealy, I'd like to see solo specific zones off all level ranges AND zones containing mosters that require a group. Group mobs would reward more XP and loot, obviously, but not having this option at all is what turned me away from this FFXI in the first place.
UI / Macros - I loved the ease of use of macros, but I hated that everything had to be macroed in order to be used effectively. The obvious solution is to have a console specific UI and a PC specific UI.
Storage - Limited storage on characters was nothing more than a shameless effort to get another dollar per month out of me, and it never sat very well with me.
AH - This needed a bit of reorganizing and streamlining
Housing - loved that I had a house, but hated that others couldn't visit. Take a look at LoTRO's housing. This is instanced housing done right.
One charecter is fine as long as its like FF11 and you can chnage your job anytime as mush as you like.
Why? Why just dont give the option to have few characters per server so everyone can have different classes & races?
you can be every single class in the game with that one charecter ff11 lets you change class anytime.
What happens when you need extra inventory space? Or when you get to where I am in FFXI where I only need a few hundred more lvls to cap my exp on every job? Would I have to change servers to make a new character to continue leveling with friends?
For the love of god they better change the horrible UI and control scheme.
AMEN please dont be so macro/menu dependant.
Well, for those using gamepads it would still make sense since that's the setup FFXI was originally designed for on PS2. They later ported it over to PC and so it ended up being a bit "off" (though you do get used to it before long).
However, since they're launching on PC and PS3 simultaneously, I'm expecting they'll have better support for PC controls... more intuitive mouse/keyboard.
And *hopefully* , they keep the clients independent enough that even as the PS3 ages over the years (as it will), XIV isn't held back because of it. I hope they learned that lesson with FFXI as well, because they could have done *a lot* more with XI on the PC if it didn't have the PS2's limitations anchoring it down.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
NO. Sorry, but I made friends in FFXI not based on leveling with them. Matter of fact, I never had a static leveling party. NOt having the static leveling party, for many people, is the reason I and many others were drawn away by games like WoW and LOTRO. I play FF for the story anyway and the world building and music and the DEPTH of the game mechanics. Getting friends out of that is an added bonus. I have MORE friends in games like WoW and LOTRO because I was never hindered by the leveling mechanic. FFXI hindered me with time spent and having to rely on other people for an aspect of the game that shouldn't rely on other people. The rest of the game(the non leveling part)is what parties are for.
/agree 100%
Forced grouping to do anything in the game is very archaeic and bad system that simply would not fly with the vast majority of MMO players these days.
But highly encouraged grouping? There ya go.
It's the basic idea of negative versus positive reinforcement.
Do you punish/prevent for not doing something or reward for doing something?
Forced grouping is punishing/preventing people for NOT doing something.
Encouraged grouping is rewarding people for doing something.
Much better on the human psych, and much better results in a MMO as we have seen.
Things I would like them to keep is the slower-paced combat, the Job system, and everything everyone else said. Now, what I would like changed is the ability to choose which server you want to join (Back when I started playing, it was randomly selected for you... might be different now). Also, I would like to be able to roll multiple characters on the same server. I may want a Galka PLD/WAR, and a Taru BRD/WHM, but I still want to play with the same friends!
Also... KEEP THE PUPPETMASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111!!!!1one!!!1!!
Forced grouping to do anything in the game is very archaeic and bad system that simply would not fly with the vast majority of MMO players these days.
Yet most of the semi-popular solo games, AoC, WAR, EQII, VSoH, DDO, EQ, SWG...etc etc are all doing eh when it comes to subscriptions. Then you look at FFXI 7 years later, with enforced grouping and it has more subs than all those MMO combined and rising. Its only getting more and more popular with FFXIV having been finally announced.
9th Vana'diel Census can't come soon enough....I swear I'm refreshing PlayOnline News 10-20 times a day waiting for it to release!
The only things I would change was the deleveling and the fact you can not solo at all.
Because thats what stopped me from getting into the game. Starting as a warrior was fail because i couldnt solo and i was a shitty tank even with a shield.
And deleveling was horrible, transportation pissed me off as well. If they made all those things a little less annoying and possible id be all over the game again.
I am hoping that they really keep the party system and the world HNM spawns as they made the game for me. There could be some more solo content but no giant ? over npcs saying heres a quest!. FFXI was a game where finding out how to do something took time and effort, not just okay heres a person lets just do the same thing we did on the other ones. The only real thing I would like to see changed would be the graphics as they are outdated now. They also need more lines in the macros as having two macros to change out your gear is a pain..
Yet most of the semi-popular solo games, AoC, WAR, EQII, VSoH, DDO, EQ, SWG...etc etc are all doing eh when it comes to subscriptions. Then you look at FFXI 7 years later, with enforced grouping and it has more subs than all those MMO combined and rising. Its only getting more and more popular with FFXIV having been finally announced.
But you see you are missing the big picture.
The WoW formula for forced grouping was successful because Blizzard managed to perfect the learning curve.
You started out solo to learn the game and get the basics down, then you'd wander into your first instances and group quests through quests chains branched off the solo quests.
This would teach you how to play in a group and the role you could fill.
Later the instances would get more difficult and then at "end-game" you'd have the jump to heroics instances, which taught you not only how to play together as a group but how to play well.
After that you took what you learned in heroic 5-person dungeons and applied it on a larger scale to 10 and then 25 person raids.
It was this progression system of solo to forced-grouping that is one of the main reasons WOW was/is so successful. It naturally funnelled players towards similar goals and encouraged them, then later forced them to play together and play well together to continue to advance.
FFXI started nearly at the beginning with the forced grouping.
WOW also gave you a lot of game play that you could do solo if you didn't want to group. But it'd still encourage and intice you to do so.
The difference is you have/had stuff to do while you wait for your group to form instead of sitting around waiting for the group because you HAD to have a group to do anything.
After reading the first page, if there is one thing that NEEDS to stay in place, it is the leveling system. With the recent updates (over the last year or so, maybe less) leveling has become very great, and you can even gain some exp while looking for a party. What I do not want to see is even the slightest amount of soloability that breaks the game's focus on group play to advance. Bitch and moan about waiting half an hour before for finding a group, but if the game has the same soloability as WoW (not end game) or as LOTRO, etc. then FFXVI minus well just be labeled as any other MMO, just thrown into a new FF world. I was thinking about coming back to FFXI recently because after trying to find a new MMO for the past couple of months, I realized what was missing was the grouping aspect. I tried WoW for a few years, and loved how it was more casual after I had quit FFXI. However, after you have one max level in WoW, most people I talk to tend to not feel as excited about leveling another character because it leads back to solo'ing. Vanilla WoW has been ruined with the permanent easy difficulty setting, and if FFXIV becomes that easy, a lot of the current people will go back to FFXI after tryingt XIV.
There are a surplus of extremely casual games out there, making FFXIV as casual as some of you want it to be would destroy what has been in the works for years. Keep the group oriented system, with some minor soloability for when finding a group gets tough, make it worth your time, but make it a less valued option to when you actually find a group.
I'd also like to see a better UI for PC users. I HATE CONTROLLERS with a passion. There is a reason I am a PC gamer, and not a Console gamer. I am hoping that there will be the option to simply click an ability, and not have to make some major detour. I hope there is also the option to bind spells and abilites to any button on the keyboard. It's not hard to implement a custom control-scheme into a game, and every game develloper should do so. For example, I want my 4 movement buttons to be ESDF as opposed to WASD, I should be able to do do. I'm not saying I would make mine ESDF, because I LOVE my standard WASD, but if someone wants to do so, he/she should be able to. User customization FTW.
Yet most of the semi-popular solo games, AoC, WAR, EQII, VSoH, DDO, EQ, SWG...etc etc are all doing eh when it comes to subscriptions. Then you look at FFXI 7 years later, with enforced grouping and it has more subs than all those MMO combined and rising. Its only getting more and more popular with FFXIV having been finally announced.
But you see you are missing the big picture.
The WoW formula for forced grouping was successful because Blizzard managed to perfect the learning curve.
You started out solo to learn the game and get the basics down, then you'd wander into your first instances and group quests through quests chains branched off the solo quests.
This would teach you how to play in a group and the role you could fill.
Later the instances would get more difficult and then at "end-game" you'd have the jump to heroics instances, which taught you not only how to play together as a group but how to play well.
After that you took what you learned in heroic 5-person dungeons and applied it on a larger scale to 10 and then 25 person raids.
It was this progression system of solo to forced-grouping that is one of the main reasons WOW was/is so successful. It naturally funnelled players towards similar goals and encouraged them, then later forced them to play together and play well together to continue to advance.
FFXI started nearly at the beginning with the forced grouping.
WOW also gave you a lot of game play that you could do solo if you didn't want to group. But it'd still encourage and intice you to do so.
The difference is you have/had stuff to do while you wait for your group to form instead of sitting around waiting for the group because you HAD to have a group to do anything.
You have a good point, but what I feel would happen if they follow the same formula as WoW is just making it the same. Think about it this way.
I have played WoW for plenty of years, I had an 80 DK in LK, a 71 Rogue, a 30~ Shaman, and some lower levels, so I know how it's changed and how it is. The thing with WoW that you brought up is a little more fantasy than reality. In WoW, you solo almost completely until 80, with a few instances in between with either friends, for a quest you want a blue from, or with some guiildies. However, with how popular it is to look up some help on fast leveling, which almost everyone does, people are almost always told that going through the hassle to find a party before 80 is usually worthless since you get gear upgrades almost, if not every, level. So a lvl 20 groups for a shiny blue, gets it after a few attempts, and then finds an upgrade at level 23 or 24 that is mroe common. They then notice that they went through harder work just to get something that wouldn't last them, so their future experiences will tell them to just party when they are bored, and not really to level up b/c leveling up is a more sure fire way that you won't get people that can't play their class right or don't know a dungeon, etc.
This leads to an almost exclusive solo leveling experience, and the person will reach max level in about 3-4 months, and will really start grouping at 80. A lot, just as what happened in LK, will try to run heroics right away, and since the game is easier than ever, it will be no real problem. In the end, they will gain their essential grouping experience when they are already max level. That's how WoW is designed nowadays. What you were refering to is more so vanilla wow, when armor actually stayed with you longer because it was still useful and people ran a lot of dungeons to get that longer lasting equipment and to gain some good experience.
For FFXI, you learn the ropes up until level 9-11 by solo'ing, and mostly killing shit. Since there aren't obvious marks to tell you where everything is (easy mode), you would usually resort to shouting out in the open to ask for some help, and this is where the real close-knit grouping system starts to turn on. In WoW, the quest tells you everything, so most of the time when someone asks for help, someoen else would tell them to read the quest again since it tells you exactly where to go. In FFXI, there isn't much that is obvious, so people remember this from when they were leveling up and usually tend to help you, with the exceptional wise-crack (pretty rare from my time playing). Since the leveling is also much slower, and solo'ing isn't a good option, you group up near the beginning and start meeting people already and play with them for a few hours, really remembering them if they were decent or better. These are the people you run into later that might help you out, or vice versa, and you start making better relationships with people. Furthermore, FFXI's class system where the same character can change class rather than having to make a new one, you won't pass by other people you know but can't recognize because they have a new character. Seeing the same people often, you tend to be more open towards them, you associate with them more, etc.
The recent level sync enforces this more now than ever, since it's even easier to find a group member, but at the same time the game isn't enforcing solo'ing like WoW practically does. If there is one grand thing, in my opinion, that really seperates WoW and FFXI in the leveling realm, it's quests. Quests in WoW are 90% of the time soloable (even some grouping recommended quests can be done solo by most classes), and since you know that you can rely on yourself rather than relying on someone else who has been solo'ing, you tend to stray away from the risky grouping section of the game until you reach max level, where good gear is almost exclusive to grouping. And even then, with the introduction of welfare epics in PvP, better gear from quests at 80~, people are solo'ing even more in PvP for gear they will use in PvE, or soloing those group quests for their gear.
All in all, keep FFXIV a group oriented game with minor soloability for when you get bored or are LFG, no the other way around.
EDIT: One thing I would like changed is the deleveling. Make it so you can lose exp, that is fine in my book, but that if you have 100 exp past the level you just got, you don't delevel, you just lose your exp. Losing exp is fine, but don't make a person you just got 75 get a train of mobs onto him, he dies, delevels, and has to get into a group for about 5 hours just to get his level again.
Again you assume these things based off a game that is five years old and where 90% or more of the players are at max level.
It was a VERY smart idea for them to make leveling faster and more solo friendly because the vast majority of players are sitting at end-game level content like PvP and PvE raids etc.
In a "high concept" level having to go back to level 1 for your subjob in FFXI and level it up is the same as leveling a new alt character from level 1 in WOW.
The big difference is that in FFXI it is required if you pick up subjobs (which everyone does) or when you unlock new more advanced jobs. You never "have" to make alts in WOW.
What this does it garauntee that people will have to go back to the starter zones and lowbie stuff, so a new player starting at level 1 for the first time has the potential to find groups easier, and allows content to be reused thus prolonging gameplay.
Throw in the level synce system and it's not so bad.
I agree with you that there is very little incentive to go back to the low level content in WOW and most people don't do so unless they are helping a friend/guildy (power leveling) or leveling an alt themselves.
Would WOW benefit from a level sync feature? I'd debate that EVERY level based MMO would benefit from a level sync feature.
But going back and leveling your sub-jobs and unlocked jobs is no more fun nor interesting then leveling an alt in WOW. In fact it is more painful and tedius because you really can't do most of it solo.
You say WOW is a game where you level up solo and then group at end game and you are correct.
But the game was designed to have grouping the entire way up, and it did back when the game was first released and whenever new expansions have come out. It's just a product of the games age.
FFXI the low level grouping is a product of the game's design, and while I agree with the idea of returning to older content I do not agree with power leveling or rehashing old stuff simply for grinding purposes.
Hopefully FF XIV comes up with a creative solution to this issue.
Gonna have to agree with pretty everything thats been said in this thread so far, alot of really good points on both sides
on a side note (sorry to derail a sec) i just wanna say that this community is already extremely enjoyable and the fact that we can have constructive conversation/posts like this is a sign that no matter how the game goes the community will likely be very enjoyable. (done derailing)
"SE has indicated that FFXIV will use a job system like the one so popular in FFXI, but the company also said that it would feel different from the one in its previous MMO. Most of the speculation in this area stems from the SE response to IGN’s question about the importance of weapons. SE told IGN that weapons greatly influence character development and that fans should inspect the FFXIV logo for clues. SE further explained that the concept is a “wheel” of warriors trying to cover the backs of their comrades.
Popular theories for the meaning of these clues is that weapons will grant stat bonuses as people use them or that they will define the job of the character equipping them and have abilities that can be learned from them.
The FFXIV logo displays what appears to be a group of casters and support jobs surrounded by allies with short- and long-range melee weapons, prompting speculation that combat may involve a front and rear guard with casters in the middle."
"Will the same character be able to learn any job?
The answer to this question is unknown at this time. SE admitted that character development is the main focus of FFXIV and that it will not involve a traditional experience points system. This has led to conjecture that the game will employ a skill up system like the one used in Darkfall or an Ability Points (AP) system like the one used in Final Fantasy Tactics.
A skill up system would result in a character getting better at wielding long swords the longer he fights with them. Meanwhile, the AP system has players earn points to unlock abilities. AP earned while a white mage could only buy white mage abilities."
Comments
Amen Brother preach on.
One final thing. I dont know if it changed but when FF11 released you couldn't select your server. That had to be the absolute worst feature ever put into an MMO. I know a friend could get on a server and level a little bit and give you a key but come on hehe.
Yeah, man for sure. The server thing needs to be addresed. Getting a world pass was just a pain in the ass. Hopefully they make it like most MMO's and you can just choose it at the beginning and that's it.
They need to keep the things that made the game difficult while taking away things that made the game tedious.
Some of the things that FF11 did(and I am currently playing) were done purposely to create longtime players, but I think they were cruelly taking advantage of the human beings ability to become addicted. AF2 can be difficult.. but near impossible is not fun. I dont know if I think things should take 2 or 3 years to get... Maybe they could just create new things instead of making us do the same thing for 3 years to get something(drops, hnms, bcnms, etc)
I dont know if me difficult vs. tedious point is very clear. But I just found myself constantly depressed by the fact that people I met and befriended had been doing the same things for a few years and were only halfway towards a goal...and some were only doing it because they were addicted, not out of enjoyment...very much the sort of "asian grindy" sort of feel people complain about... I enjoyed aspects of the difficulty, such as no "!" or "?" for quests and such... which promoted friends helping friends and community... but tedium created to create addicts and therefore longterm subs... well it only snagged around 500k and its mean... so I am hoping for different tactics this time ie. a little less addiction based on tedium and more based on fun
Also, the release better be universal if they intend to have multi nation/console servers... because leet-JP players is no fun.
WOOT
www.eorzeapedia.com
(Great FF14 source)
I would really dig it if they removed the whole playonline system, I found it to be clunky and in the way. Just a simple standalone client, so I don't have to manage numerous usernames and passwords, and that I wouldn't have to install extra proprietary software just to play the game.
Biggest pain was when I ever got the itch to play FFXI again, I'd have to go dig up my old manuals with all the info scribbled in the back of em.
Current Games:
FFXIV will not be using POL
I hated it too.
For the love of god they better change the horrible UI and control scheme.
AMEN please dont be so macro/menu dependant.
I still play FFXI, and it has come along way since it was launched. For the person who said they only got 500k, that's actually where the number is now, 7 years after launch. At one point they had around 1 million subscribers, and was number one before wow eventually dethroned it.
I would love to see the subjobs, all jobs with one character, the depth of endgame, the lower stats on armor (not that godly wow armor crap...its ridicoulous). I would also want them to make sure they don't make any areas obsolote, like blizzard has done with WoW. I like that in FFXI sky and dyna still have vital armor in them, and that they aren't obosolete. Also, keep skillchains, magic bursts, and exp pts. Maybe make it to where it's easier for someone to solo stuff for 100xp-120xp with less downtime, but still make it so that xps get the 200-300 xp, so we don't lose one of the best leveling systems in all of mmos.
Keep a player ran economy going, not this ghetto economy found in most mmos now. Keep jobs balanced on a per role basis, not the jack of all trades system that wow has. Would hate to see the new ff turned into a battle of how does the most damage, or who does the most healing. Support jobs are a great addition to an mmo, that ppl who only played wow have yet to experience.
Keep the strategy. This game take some serious strategy, make ffxiv the same way. Make it challenging, and as gratifying as ffxi is. When I beat CoP, man, did that feel good. Never felt that good playing any video game, ever. Keep crazy stuff like salvage (which has terrible drop rates, but is still fun as hell).
Keep the story, but maybe change the instances to be more interactive like LoTRO. Voice the quests and missions (similar to Age of Conan, but much better voice actors please). Add something like the public quest system that Warhammer has. And definitely keep levey sync.
Also, keep the macro system about the same (more lines per macro would be better), and still create armor that is really only usefull as macro pieces.
Keep crafting important, but, maybe make the grind a little easier. Too many games these days the crafting is a joke. Atleast in FFXI you can find a very usefull recipe in almost every crafting tier. Can't say the same about WoW, LoTRO, etc.
I doubt we will get too many customization options for the characters, so how about just making it to where we can dye our armor, so everyone doesn't wear the same color. I'd have some purple and black homam, ffs.
Fix up the linkshell interface, please. Warhammer has a good guild interface you should look at SE.
Let us have our houses in instanced neighberhoods, or even in the game world, and allow us to have more options with them.
Also, keep the weather, day of week, moon cycle, and all those little elements that play important roles behind the scene. You have the deepest mmo of all the modern mmos already, so just carry some of that over and ppl can't cry that their is a lack of depth at launch.
Keep the campaign, and besieged style battles. Also, keep the BCNM's, KSNM's, etc. ISNM's are such a great way to make money, leave that option in the game for ppl who don't like to craft.
Reduce the healing time between battles, but don't elimanate it (or we would lose the reason we have brds, rdms, cors). Fix the smn, so it can actually have it's smns out and isn't a ghetto healer. Fix the beast so it will get pt invites. Ban all ppl who say lolpup (XD).
If you have a blue mage, please, for the love of god...don't make learning the spells that damn tedious.
Speed up combat some, but not too much. Don't need it to be so fast that it takes the strategy out of each fight.
I don't care about pvp much, but if you add it, maybe make it like an arena battle, and some instanced battleground sort of crap. But, don't balance the jobs for pvp. Make it to wear the player has to do that on his own depending on subjobs etc. Or maybe, make it to where a proper group setup is important in pvp. But, in the end, make it to where pvp can award xp.
KEEP XP LOSS. nothign worse than always shelling out money to repair gear, or having an item break in a dungeon. Keep it so players are punished for death, not just tickled with a feather.
SE, you've made so many changes to XI over the years, that the game is by far my favorite. It is different than any other mmo out there, and that's why I love it. If you can make XiV different, and still challenging and rewarding, and not a joke like modern mmos, then I will be playing both games at launch. But, if you cater to the casual gamer, who typically is fickle and fairweather, then, you will lose the hardcore base that has made FFXI one of the most successfull mmos (No server merges since launch, and more subscribers than everygame that came out after it except wow). Keep the japanese design philoshpy, and keep it a ff.
PS...Keep all regions on the same server, this elimanates the problems of peak/off times that a lot of games have. I never have problems finding ppl to play with in ffxi, and that auto transalate feature is the bomb.
I loved FFXI, and like most here, it was bittersweet due to many of the mechanics. Below I've bulleted a few keeps and changes I'd like to see.
Keeps:
Changes:
Why? Why just dont give the option to have few characters per server so everyone can have different classes & races?
you can be every single class in the game with that one charecter ff11 lets you change class anytime.
What happens when you need extra inventory space? Or when you get to where I am in FFXI where I only need a few hundred more lvls to cap my exp on every job? Would I have to change servers to make a new character to continue leveling with friends?
AMEN please dont be so macro/menu dependant.
Well, for those using gamepads it would still make sense since that's the setup FFXI was originally designed for on PS2. They later ported it over to PC and so it ended up being a bit "off" (though you do get used to it before long).
However, since they're launching on PC and PS3 simultaneously, I'm expecting they'll have better support for PC controls... more intuitive mouse/keyboard.
And *hopefully* , they keep the clients independent enough that even as the PS3 ages over the years (as it will), XIV isn't held back because of it. I hope they learned that lesson with FFXI as well, because they could have done *a lot* more with XI on the PC if it didn't have the PS2's limitations anchoring it down.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
/agree 100%
Forced grouping to do anything in the game is very archaeic and bad system that simply would not fly with the vast majority of MMO players these days.
But highly encouraged grouping? There ya go.
It's the basic idea of negative versus positive reinforcement.
Do you punish/prevent for not doing something or reward for doing something?
Forced grouping is punishing/preventing people for NOT doing something.
Encouraged grouping is rewarding people for doing something.
Much better on the human psych, and much better results in a MMO as we have seen.
I wasnt a huge fan of FF11 but I did play it for sometime and enjoyed myself. Here's my list of changes...
1.) Less Grinding
2.) Atleast Early on in the game to much time was spent travelling to places.
3.) Accessability, make 14 easier to pick up and play. 11 was some what intimidating to new comers (imo)
Absolutely many gamers I've met in RL said that they picked the game up and were so lost they just gave up.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
Things I would like them to keep is the slower-paced combat, the Job system, and everything everyone else said. Now, what I would like changed is the ability to choose which server you want to join (Back when I started playing, it was randomly selected for you... might be different now). Also, I would like to be able to roll multiple characters on the same server. I may want a Galka PLD/WAR, and a Taru BRD/WHM, but I still want to play with the same friends!
Also... KEEP THE PUPPETMASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111!!!!1one!!!1!!
Yet most of the semi-popular solo games, AoC, WAR, EQII, VSoH, DDO, EQ, SWG...etc etc are all doing eh when it comes to subscriptions. Then you look at FFXI 7 years later, with enforced grouping and it has more subs than all those MMO combined and rising. Its only getting more and more popular with FFXIV having been finally announced.
9th Vana'diel Census can't come soon enough....I swear I'm refreshing PlayOnline News 10-20 times a day waiting for it to release!
The only things I would change was the deleveling and the fact you can not solo at all.
Because thats what stopped me from getting into the game. Starting as a warrior was fail because i couldnt solo and i was a shitty tank even with a shield.
And deleveling was horrible, transportation pissed me off as well. If they made all those things a little less annoying and possible id be all over the game again.
I am hoping that they really keep the party system and the world HNM spawns as they made the game for me. There could be some more solo content but no giant ? over npcs saying heres a quest!. FFXI was a game where finding out how to do something took time and effort, not just okay heres a person lets just do the same thing we did on the other ones. The only real thing I would like to see changed would be the graphics as they are outdated now. They also need more lines in the macros as having two macros to change out your gear is a pain..
But you see you are missing the big picture.
The WoW formula for forced grouping was successful because Blizzard managed to perfect the learning curve.
You started out solo to learn the game and get the basics down, then you'd wander into your first instances and group quests through quests chains branched off the solo quests.
This would teach you how to play in a group and the role you could fill.
Later the instances would get more difficult and then at "end-game" you'd have the jump to heroics instances, which taught you not only how to play together as a group but how to play well.
After that you took what you learned in heroic 5-person dungeons and applied it on a larger scale to 10 and then 25 person raids.
It was this progression system of solo to forced-grouping that is one of the main reasons WOW was/is so successful. It naturally funnelled players towards similar goals and encouraged them, then later forced them to play together and play well together to continue to advance.
FFXI started nearly at the beginning with the forced grouping.
WOW also gave you a lot of game play that you could do solo if you didn't want to group. But it'd still encourage and intice you to do so.
The difference is you have/had stuff to do while you wait for your group to form instead of sitting around waiting for the group because you HAD to have a group to do anything.
After reading the first page, if there is one thing that NEEDS to stay in place, it is the leveling system. With the recent updates (over the last year or so, maybe less) leveling has become very great, and you can even gain some exp while looking for a party. What I do not want to see is even the slightest amount of soloability that breaks the game's focus on group play to advance. Bitch and moan about waiting half an hour before for finding a group, but if the game has the same soloability as WoW (not end game) or as LOTRO, etc. then FFXVI minus well just be labeled as any other MMO, just thrown into a new FF world. I was thinking about coming back to FFXI recently because after trying to find a new MMO for the past couple of months, I realized what was missing was the grouping aspect. I tried WoW for a few years, and loved how it was more casual after I had quit FFXI. However, after you have one max level in WoW, most people I talk to tend to not feel as excited about leveling another character because it leads back to solo'ing. Vanilla WoW has been ruined with the permanent easy difficulty setting, and if FFXIV becomes that easy, a lot of the current people will go back to FFXI after tryingt XIV.
There are a surplus of extremely casual games out there, making FFXIV as casual as some of you want it to be would destroy what has been in the works for years. Keep the group oriented system, with some minor soloability for when finding a group gets tough, make it worth your time, but make it a less valued option to when you actually find a group.
I'd also like to see a better UI for PC users. I HATE CONTROLLERS with a passion. There is a reason I am a PC gamer, and not a Console gamer. I am hoping that there will be the option to simply click an ability, and not have to make some major detour. I hope there is also the option to bind spells and abilites to any button on the keyboard. It's not hard to implement a custom control-scheme into a game, and every game develloper should do so. For example, I want my 4 movement buttons to be ESDF as opposed to WASD, I should be able to do do. I'm not saying I would make mine ESDF, because I LOVE my standard WASD, but if someone wants to do so, he/she should be able to. User customization FTW.
But you see you are missing the big picture.
The WoW formula for forced grouping was successful because Blizzard managed to perfect the learning curve.
You started out solo to learn the game and get the basics down, then you'd wander into your first instances and group quests through quests chains branched off the solo quests.
This would teach you how to play in a group and the role you could fill.
Later the instances would get more difficult and then at "end-game" you'd have the jump to heroics instances, which taught you not only how to play together as a group but how to play well.
After that you took what you learned in heroic 5-person dungeons and applied it on a larger scale to 10 and then 25 person raids.
It was this progression system of solo to forced-grouping that is one of the main reasons WOW was/is so successful. It naturally funnelled players towards similar goals and encouraged them, then later forced them to play together and play well together to continue to advance.
FFXI started nearly at the beginning with the forced grouping.
WOW also gave you a lot of game play that you could do solo if you didn't want to group. But it'd still encourage and intice you to do so.
The difference is you have/had stuff to do while you wait for your group to form instead of sitting around waiting for the group because you HAD to have a group to do anything.
You have a good point, but what I feel would happen if they follow the same formula as WoW is just making it the same. Think about it this way.
I have played WoW for plenty of years, I had an 80 DK in LK, a 71 Rogue, a 30~ Shaman, and some lower levels, so I know how it's changed and how it is. The thing with WoW that you brought up is a little more fantasy than reality. In WoW, you solo almost completely until 80, with a few instances in between with either friends, for a quest you want a blue from, or with some guiildies. However, with how popular it is to look up some help on fast leveling, which almost everyone does, people are almost always told that going through the hassle to find a party before 80 is usually worthless since you get gear upgrades almost, if not every, level. So a lvl 20 groups for a shiny blue, gets it after a few attempts, and then finds an upgrade at level 23 or 24 that is mroe common. They then notice that they went through harder work just to get something that wouldn't last them, so their future experiences will tell them to just party when they are bored, and not really to level up b/c leveling up is a more sure fire way that you won't get people that can't play their class right or don't know a dungeon, etc.
This leads to an almost exclusive solo leveling experience, and the person will reach max level in about 3-4 months, and will really start grouping at 80. A lot, just as what happened in LK, will try to run heroics right away, and since the game is easier than ever, it will be no real problem. In the end, they will gain their essential grouping experience when they are already max level. That's how WoW is designed nowadays. What you were refering to is more so vanilla wow, when armor actually stayed with you longer because it was still useful and people ran a lot of dungeons to get that longer lasting equipment and to gain some good experience.
For FFXI, you learn the ropes up until level 9-11 by solo'ing, and mostly killing shit. Since there aren't obvious marks to tell you where everything is (easy mode), you would usually resort to shouting out in the open to ask for some help, and this is where the real close-knit grouping system starts to turn on. In WoW, the quest tells you everything, so most of the time when someone asks for help, someoen else would tell them to read the quest again since it tells you exactly where to go. In FFXI, there isn't much that is obvious, so people remember this from when they were leveling up and usually tend to help you, with the exceptional wise-crack (pretty rare from my time playing). Since the leveling is also much slower, and solo'ing isn't a good option, you group up near the beginning and start meeting people already and play with them for a few hours, really remembering them if they were decent or better. These are the people you run into later that might help you out, or vice versa, and you start making better relationships with people. Furthermore, FFXI's class system where the same character can change class rather than having to make a new one, you won't pass by other people you know but can't recognize because they have a new character. Seeing the same people often, you tend to be more open towards them, you associate with them more, etc.
The recent level sync enforces this more now than ever, since it's even easier to find a group member, but at the same time the game isn't enforcing solo'ing like WoW practically does. If there is one grand thing, in my opinion, that really seperates WoW and FFXI in the leveling realm, it's quests. Quests in WoW are 90% of the time soloable (even some grouping recommended quests can be done solo by most classes), and since you know that you can rely on yourself rather than relying on someone else who has been solo'ing, you tend to stray away from the risky grouping section of the game until you reach max level, where good gear is almost exclusive to grouping. And even then, with the introduction of welfare epics in PvP, better gear from quests at 80~, people are solo'ing even more in PvP for gear they will use in PvE, or soloing those group quests for their gear.
All in all, keep FFXIV a group oriented game with minor soloability for when you get bored or are LFG, no the other way around.
EDIT: One thing I would like changed is the deleveling. Make it so you can lose exp, that is fine in my book, but that if you have 100 exp past the level you just got, you don't delevel, you just lose your exp. Losing exp is fine, but don't make a person you just got 75 get a train of mobs onto him, he dies, delevels, and has to get into a group for about 5 hours just to get his level again.
Again you assume these things based off a game that is five years old and where 90% or more of the players are at max level.
It was a VERY smart idea for them to make leveling faster and more solo friendly because the vast majority of players are sitting at end-game level content like PvP and PvE raids etc.
In a "high concept" level having to go back to level 1 for your subjob in FFXI and level it up is the same as leveling a new alt character from level 1 in WOW.
The big difference is that in FFXI it is required if you pick up subjobs (which everyone does) or when you unlock new more advanced jobs. You never "have" to make alts in WOW.
What this does it garauntee that people will have to go back to the starter zones and lowbie stuff, so a new player starting at level 1 for the first time has the potential to find groups easier, and allows content to be reused thus prolonging gameplay.
Throw in the level synce system and it's not so bad.
I agree with you that there is very little incentive to go back to the low level content in WOW and most people don't do so unless they are helping a friend/guildy (power leveling) or leveling an alt themselves.
Would WOW benefit from a level sync feature? I'd debate that EVERY level based MMO would benefit from a level sync feature.
But going back and leveling your sub-jobs and unlocked jobs is no more fun nor interesting then leveling an alt in WOW. In fact it is more painful and tedius because you really can't do most of it solo.
You say WOW is a game where you level up solo and then group at end game and you are correct.
But the game was designed to have grouping the entire way up, and it did back when the game was first released and whenever new expansions have come out. It's just a product of the games age.
FFXI the low level grouping is a product of the game's design, and while I agree with the idea of returning to older content I do not agree with power leveling or rehashing old stuff simply for grinding purposes.
Hopefully FF XIV comes up with a creative solution to this issue.
Gonna have to agree with pretty everything thats been said in this thread so far, alot of really good points on both sides
on a side note (sorry to derail a sec) i just wanna say that this community is already extremely enjoyable and the fact that we can have constructive conversation/posts like this is a sign that no matter how the game goes the community will likely be very enjoyable. (done derailing)
pvp, simple as that, if they put halph the time they invest in pve on pvp that this game would have such a bigger crowd.
From TenTonHammer:
"SE has indicated that FFXIV will use a job system like the one so popular in FFXI, but the company also said that it would feel different from the one in its previous MMO. Most of the speculation in this area stems from the SE response to IGN’s question about the importance of weapons. SE told IGN that weapons greatly influence character development and that fans should inspect the FFXIV logo for clues. SE further explained that the concept is a “wheel” of warriors trying to cover the backs of their comrades.
Popular theories for the meaning of these clues is that weapons will grant stat bonuses as people use them or that they will define the job of the character equipping them and have abilities that can be learned from them.
The FFXIV logo displays what appears to be a group of casters and support jobs surrounded by allies with short- and long-range melee weapons, prompting speculation that combat may involve a front and rear guard with casters in the middle."
"Will the same character be able to learn any job?
The answer to this question is unknown at this time. SE admitted that character development is the main focus of FFXIV and that it will not involve a traditional experience points system. This has led to conjecture that the game will employ a skill up system like the one used in Darkfall or an Ability Points (AP) system like the one used in Final Fantasy Tactics.
A skill up system would result in a character getting better at wielding long swords the longer he fights with them. Meanwhile, the AP system has players earn points to unlock abilities. AP earned while a white mage could only buy white mage abilities."
Thoughts?