For your viewing pleasure, we have yet another interview where a lot of the same information is being presented. Enjoy these next 3 minutes and 23 seconds of marketing bliss. I'm sure I've missed some interviews somewhere. Can someone point out where something new has been provided aside from the cinematic everyone is drooling over? This is E3, ladies and gentlemen.
You people really need to start researching a bit if you want to keep pointing fingers. The storylines ARE group friendly, there is even a mechanic in place to let all party members influence conversations at the same time. What don't you consider a grind??? Do you want to pay for the mmo and have your character at max level with all best items so you can say "I win???" Every class has a different storyline that has the ability to stand on its own as its own game, if that's the only part of the game you ever played. Is KOTOR grind all the way until the end???? No, its not. Plus, I say again, raids and PvP have already been confirmed. Please stop with the speculative posting without at least SOME research... please???
Agreed about the research part.
I find a lot of speculation like this (the entire thread) can be solved by clicking a few links, reading/watching and going, "Oh, question answered then." If Bioware hasn't released any gameplay info to the general public well guess what that means? Nothing. Unless you're an investor they don't answer to you. WE, the consumer, have zero rights to demand information for something we arent paying for.
Bioware has confirmed the usual MMO faire as far as gameplay goes and you can get very brief glimpses as to how the classes they have posted will feel from the videos. If you want more information then you really only have a few options: 1. Email them (good luck with that, hahah!) 2. Become a portion investor in the game or stockholder - they'd be legally obligated to release info to you, but you'd be under a very legally-binding NDA. 3. Stop following their product, don't buy it and move on.
Those are your only real options. Creating these grand schemes based purely off of conjecture and inuendo is more than a little ludicrous. Also keep in mind we still have no idea of an even vague release date beyond -maybe- Q1 of 2010. They still haven't even finalized any of their classes. Any information we know now could be changed six months from now.
Ok right ahead: I am very serious with this, and I dont intend to provoke you, but this is the result of weeks and months of thinking and following news and info, and I would really be interested in your (thoughtful) critique. Here comes the thesis first: Bioware is either deceiting themselves about what a success SWTOR can be, OR they are deceiving us about the nature of the game.
Now to the analysis. I will try to keep it a brief as possible. I hope I dont create loopholes by shortage, but I may add to it, if some parts are unclear. I.) Bioware, EA and LucasArts always emphasize "story". In fact we have not heard of a single gameplay sphere any detail other than that. There is that suspicious fact we hear NO other "usually expected" detail whatsoever, now for a long time. Which is no argument in itself, yes, just a hint. The central point here is: they always emphasized, that ALL of SWTOR is story driven. ALL is heroic and there is NO usual grind, no "un-heroic" battle like "kill 20 rats". Point 1.
I read about this far. The main reason I read this far is because reading your sentences is like having a puzzle. I have to fill in words in spots there should be words. I have to assume sometimes that you meant to put a word here or spell this word correctly. Spelling and grammar is important because it helps the people you are talking to understand exactly what you mean. If you had everything spelled correctly in this I would have read more. I don't like to read things where I have to try to deduce what you are "trying" to tell me. Sorry...the internet is not an excuse for the retardation of the English language or an excuse to bypass all the rules of grammar. Next time you want to make a serious post please put some time and effort into spelling things correctly and putting in words where they should be.
Ok right ahead: I am very serious with this, and I dont intend to provoke you, but this is the result of weeks and months of thinking and following news and info, and I would really be interested in your (thoughtful) critique. Here comes the thesis first: Bioware is either deceiting themselves about what a success SWTOR can be, OR they are deceiving us about the nature of the game.
Now to the analysis. I will try to keep it a brief as possible. I hope I dont create loopholes by shortage, but I may add to it, if some parts are unclear. I.) Bioware, EA and LucasArts always emphasize "story". In fact we have not heard of a single gameplay sphere any detail other than that. There is that suspicious fact we hear NO other "usually expected" detail whatsoever, now for a long time. Which is no argument in itself, yes, just a hint. The central point here is: they always emphasized, that ALL of SWTOR is story driven. ALL is heroic and there is NO usual grind, no "un-heroic" battle like "kill 20 rats". Point 1.
I read about this far. The main reason I read this far is because reading your sentences is like having a puzzle. I have to fill in words in spots there should be words. I have to assume sometimes that you meant to put a word here or spell this word correctly. Spelling and grammar is important because it helps the people you are talking to understand exactly what you mean. If you had everything spelled correctly in this I would have read more. I don't like to read things where I have to try to deduce what you are "trying" to tell me. Sorry...the internet is not an excuse for the retardation of the English language or an excuse to bypass all the rules of grammar. Next time you want to make a serious post please put some time and effort into spelling things correctly and putting in words where they should be.
I think English is his second language, no need to be rude about it.
Ok right ahead: I am very serious with this, and I dont intend to provoke you, but this is the result of weeks and months of thinking and following news and info, and I would really be interested in your (thoughtful) critique. Here comes the thesis first: Bioware is either deceiting themselves about what a success SWTOR can be, OR they are deceiving us about the nature of the game.
Now to the analysis. I will try to keep it a brief as possible. I hope I dont create loopholes by shortage, but I may add to it, if some parts are unclear. I.) Bioware, EA and LucasArts always emphasize "story". In fact we have not heard of a single gameplay sphere any detail other than that. There is that suspicious fact we hear NO other "usually expected" detail whatsoever, now for a long time. Which is no argument in itself, yes, just a hint. The central point here is: they always emphasized, that ALL of SWTOR is story driven. ALL is heroic and there is NO usual grind, no "un-heroic" battle like "kill 20 rats". Point 1.
I read about this far. The main reason I read this far is because reading your sentences is like having a puzzle. I have to fill in words in spots there should be words. I have to assume sometimes that you meant to put a word here or spell this word correctly. Spelling and grammar is important because it helps the people you are talking to understand exactly what you mean. If you had everything spelled correctly in this I would have read more. I don't like to read things where I have to try to deduce what you are "trying" to tell me. Sorry...the internet is not an excuse for the retardation of the English language or an excuse to bypass all the rules of grammar. Next time you want to make a serious post please put some time and effort into spelling things correctly and putting in words where they should be.
I think English is his second language, no need to be rude about it.
doubtful. everyones crapping their pants over this game is quite funny. some people seem to have the impression this game is going to release next month or something with how vehemently they demand to know every detail of the game and how it needs to be out now. patience is a virtue. this game may be out in two years or next year who knows. details of the game will be given out on a need to know basis. right now none of us need to know. quit crapping your depends.
First, english is my 4th language- in before anyone attacks, and it is 05:30 in the morning, so I will not even make that great of an effort to get everything right.
Second, I don't agree fully with the OP extrapolations due to the fact they are extrapolations. Until we/I get some real factology about SW:TOR attempting to guess things is a very risky subject,
Still, there is one thing , that the OP states, that I kind of feel in my bones; Many, many people (not me, since I do keep a prettu open mind and am willing to accept noveltry) will have a huge deception with SW;TOR, not because it will be a bad game, rather because it will not be what they are expecting .
We kind of already know that crafting and grouping are not the main focus. We already know about the henchman aspect, and based on the footage of gameplay it looks they are pushing into a "wowish action type of gameplay" direction - what is ok I might add, but also might alienate some players that consider anything close to wow the spawn of satan.
And, third, one thing that MIGHT cause some deception is the possibility of EA using , adding or incorporating a "micro transaction bussiness model" to SW:TOR. EA is already advancing to that with the Asiatic localization of Warhammer - that for all that we know , might be just a testbed for the future. And I do know that i'll be flamed by second guessing this last aspect, but- and it is a big but- I do recall EA's CEO stating, some months ago, that EA planned to implement such kind of bussiness model to MMO's.
Having said all of that, must state that I am not "worried". I don't expect a second comming of SWG like many or a return to the MMO UO times, and expect Bioware to deliver a working, functional , well designed game - that I might like or not. Future will say.
I don't expect them to make a bad game, BUT from the details leaked so far it doesn't look like the kinda of MMO I want to pay a monthly fee for.
When I want story driven games I prefer standalone RPG's. For MMO's I prefer a game thats more community oriented. Not that it forces community, that would suck, but it should encourage or promote community.
But like I said, I don't expect them to make a bad game so I'll just stick with waiting until 6 months after launch and a free trial and I'll be happy to try it out.
Ok right ahead: I am very serious with this, and I dont intend to provoke you, but this is the result of weeks and months of thinking and following news and info, and I would really be interested in your (thoughtful) critique. Here comes the thesis first: Bioware is either deceiting themselves about what a success SWTOR can be, OR they are deceiving us about the nature of the game.
Now to the analysis. I will try to keep it a brief as possible. I hope I dont create loopholes by shortage, but I may add to it, if some parts are unclear. I.) Bioware, EA and LucasArts always emphasize "story". In fact we have not heard of a single gameplay sphere any detail other than that. There is that suspicious fact we hear NO other "usually expected" detail whatsoever, now for a long time. Which is no argument in itself, yes, just a hint. The central point here is: they always emphasized, that ALL of SWTOR is story driven. ALL is heroic and there is NO usual grind, no "un-heroic" battle like "kill 20 rats". Point 1.
I read about this far. The main reason I read this far is because reading your sentences is like having a puzzle. I have to fill in words in spots there should be words. I have to assume sometimes that you meant to put a word here or spell this word correctly. Spelling and grammar is important because it helps the people you are talking to understand exactly what you mean. If you had everything spelled correctly in this I would have read more. I don't like to read things where I have to try to deduce what you are "trying" to tell me. Sorry...the internet is not an excuse for the retardation of the English language or an excuse to bypass all the rules of grammar. Next time you want to make a serious post please put some time and effort into spelling things correctly and putting in words where they should be.
Right back at ya. Why don't you try picking a font color that doesn't blind nearly half the people trying to read it. Oh, and welcome to the internet. There is a rumor going around that there are non native english speakers on it that probably have a greater command of second and third languages than you do of common decency and tact.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
You know what? What may be different about the stories in TOR is this…. I think they are aiming to really provoke emotion in these stories to steer your decisions in this game. Wouldn't surprise me if they convinced the docs to hire a psychologist, since they hinted at a certain type of “research, and thought study” going into this game well before we heard it was TOR. I thought that was strange when I heard it. What if there were at least a few parts of your story arc where you go "WTF?" And you may even feel sadness, happiness, anger, fear, humor in an MMO story. When is the last time you felt that type of emotion in an MMO? Or any game for that mater? Was it as good as it could have been? Perhaps playing a BioWare game? Imagine the possibilities. It’ll be interesting to see if they pull this off. If you get pas the mechanical aspects of game grinding and pew pewing you may actually feel immersed. That’s the problem with gamers these days, they never take enough time to slow down and actually enjoy a game and its plot the way it was meant to be enjoyed, unless you are forced, or steered. BioWare will force you to slow down by making decisions in the game mater because they can actually effect you long term.
Assuming they do contract out psychologists they only need to elicit the following emotion for amazing financial success... Anger
1) PVP: Make sure the classes are unbalanced on a 3 month rotational basis so PvP'ers have lots to get angry over.
2) Story Arc: You hit the nail on the head. Get the role-players angry and they will get Emo and keep subscribing.
3) Loot/Quest Items: Make a micro transaction system so people have to shell out RL money to look/be uber in a game. This one is obvious.
4) Forums: Create an online forum where all the players can drag their drama amongst each other inside the game and rip each others throats out.
You, like many others in this forum, are assuming an awful lot. Gaming companies release limited information on upcoming games for a reason - to provoke discussion and 'hype'.
Look what this did for 'Darkfail' - probably the worst MMO ever to hit the market.
Anyways, you are right about one thing. Soloing is becoming very prominent in current and future MMO's. Why? Because a lot of people want to solo, but be aware that other people are still around and creating a dynamic environment that can be joined when and if they feel like it. I am one of these people. Generally, I find a lot of asswipes in MMO's that I want as little to do with as possible. If I need to group to accomplish certain goals etc, then I will do it and then move on to enjoy the game predominantly by myself.
Do I enjoy playing in guilds where dweebs who are failures in real life, can mould a group of people into doing their bidding and playing the game to suit their own needs? No, I don't. I haven't joined a guild in an MMO for quite a long time, and the odd ones I do join I last about 10 minutes.
You talk about 'community' creating the 'story' and determining the foundation of any particular server. The problem is that nowadays the community turn most servers into vile, polluted cesspits, full of teenage angst and an environment that enables these 'creatures' to get away with behaviour that under normal conditions would result in their decapitation.
The more solo content in MMO's the better, as far as I am concerned.
Btw, I enjoy games that offer the PvP style of environment where solo play is an awful lot of fun. I particularly enjoy the system that AoC has, where the tears and anger of these other other players can quite literaly be tasted. It is so sweet.
An analysis based on pure speculation = pure speculation.
This.
At this point, analysis of gameplay in SW:TOR is like analysis of the 2014 baseball season. You can't "analyze" something that we know next to nothing about.
I love the willful ignorance of people when they fall in love with a game. I saw the same thing happen with Conan (and several other past games), and it turned out to be an epic joke. Someone actually quoted how much EA payed to buy Bioware as a reason why this game cannot fail. Hahaha.. now that is classic. Id be interested to know what possible motivation Bioware would have for hiding gameplay mechanics such as crafting, resource gathering, RPG elements and mechanics, and other non-combat gameplay from us if these features exist in the game to any substantial level. It seems to me that these elements are being purposfully downplayed in importance to the overall scope of the game.
I also love the willful ignorance of people when they decide from day one that they're not going to like a game, and rail against it even though they don't know shit about it.
An analysis based on pure speculation = pure speculation.
This.
At this point, analysis of gameplay in SW:TOR is like analysis of the 2014 baseball season. You can't "analyze" something that we know next to nothing about.
First, I simply deny that we know next to nothing about it. They have said much more than many are aware of. Like it wont be heavily instanced. That people don't listen, is not my fault. They still repeat it will be a GW like game, which they have said several times it wont be. Sure, there is a substantial lot of stuff they have not elaborated on. But is this the first MMO we have ever seen?
I think there are not so few informations, that it is commonly assumed, even tho still many parts are very vague. But with a bit experience on the previous 100+ existing MMOs, of which I have at least experienced about 30 or so by now, and with a bit common sense what works with people and what doesnt, I dont think it is so difficult to construct a picture.
Humans function after quite predicable patterns. Sociology is based on this idea. So when you observe a certain amount of MMOs you can see what works and what doesn't. For instance, need creates communites. Making games too easy and too soloable kills a big portion of community, since people by nature are egoistic. I find it HILARIOUS that Bioware seriously says, some Jedi accompanies a Smuggler friend just for the sake of friendship! Thats preposterous to assume! People are way less "kind" to do that, outside of close RL friends maybe. So when you like groups you can not build a game which is "all the way soloable" as Bioware claims. That WILL mean little community, if you do even so much as a little MMO research.
Or that you have to place game hubs to encourage communities. One reason that greatly hindered the community forming of VG. People reached hubs only at mid level range and all the early level people were alone in their many areas. That is something that is nice in terms of story, since VG was able to tell stories of the various races in the starter areas, but it was VERY BAD for the community spirit. All people were scattered all over the game world, and consequently the idea was killed with the Starter Isle, which is usually seen as progress. Thats why I assume letting every class start somewhere else will be damaging to community spirit, and people will in the end for said reasons be highly disinclined to group. It is not such a wild assumption IMO.
The only alternative would be Bioware lied to us, and they DO have "normal MMO stuff". Which is btw what I hope for. Better lied to in the past than have a bad MMO in the future.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I.) Bioware, EA and LucasArts always emphasize "story". In fact we have not heard of a single gameplay sphere any detail other than that. There is that suspicious fact we hear NO other "usually expected" detail whatsoever, now for a long time. Which is no argument in itself, yes, just a hint. The central point here is: they always emphasized, that ALL of SWTOR is story driven. ALL is heroic and there is NO usual grind, no "un-heroic" battle like "kill 20 rats". Point 1. The game is still very much in development and it is very common for companies to keep some gameplay elements secret until closer to release. Just because the heroic story is what they are focusing on right now does not mean that it is the entire focus. They have already mentioned that the game will have all the usual trimmings of an MMORPG, so I don't really see where you are getting the idea that this will be so different. We may not have the details on things like the combat system yet, but from what I read from those who tested it at E3, it will be very fun and engaging.
II.) They have hinted every class has its planet. With the map circling around we have 16 planets, that makes 8 class bound planet. So 50% granted solo game. Or at best intra-class co-op. Tho why should you when its "your class story". Not waterproof, but a measure of balance. In other games, every race has their own starting cities and areas. This does not mean that these areas are closed off to other races/classes or that there will be nothing of value to others in those areas. I'm sure there will be something to do on every planet for every class. I seriously doubt that Bioware has the intention of segregating everyone into their own planets entirely based off class.
III.) We know we have combat companions, and we know Bioware said, the game can be entirely soloed. Fact! Now what is crystal clear to me: the easier quests are, the more soloable, the less grouping happens. Grouping is what happens when people need to group. Now sure the rise of soloing can be seen. But the fact is, most people who can solo will solo. With NPC companion. Now the life-force of any MMO is it's community. Communites form through grouping for a large part. By shared experiences. But from my POV, when everything CAN be soloed, most WILL solo it. Now if you are busy, busy with your story, why share it, when a NPC does it? Communities are formed by and large through the "hunting party experience", when a team overcomes an obstacle a single person could not. The rise of solo-friendlyness has so far seriously damaged the community spirit in MMOs. I have interpreted their remarks as meaning that every player can get through their single-player story arc solo if they so choose. This does not mean that everything in the game can be accomplished solo. They have already mentioned that dungeons/raids will be a part of this game and obviously this content will not be soloable. Personally I am extremely happy that we will be able to get through our personal story arcs without groups. That just means that we can play the game on our own time and enjoy the content at a pace that works for every type of gamer. Obviously not everyone has time to adhere to crazy raid schedules or find groups every time they want to play. Games that are designed to force people into grouping are flawed and will always remain niche. The OPTION to group will always be there and groups will no doubt be essential for the epic raid content. This seems very similar to other MMOs to me...
IV.) Now no matter how good your stories are, I just dont see it that a decend number of players stays in a MMO for more than 3-4 months. I just do not see it. Taking the not small playtime per day of the average MMO gamer, I am sure most will be through the story 2 times by then at LEAST. I am sorry if I have to burst your bubble, but a game merely driven by story wont hold people alone a long time. 6 months is the max. time. Based on my understanding, the stories in the game will function to remove the 'grind' from the game. This only means that we won't have to perform mindlessly repetitive tasks for months to get from 1 - max level. Once you get to the end game, as Bioware has already stated, the game will have all the same features of any other MMORPG. I take this to mean that if you want to go kill the same mobs 1000000000 times, you can. If you want to raid, you can. If you want to do a dungeon or repeatable quest that you have already done 100 times, go for it. Nothing they have released thus far has indicated that this will not be the case.
V.) The ONLY thing proven to keep gamers a longer time, is repetitive tasks, like it or not. Just going out hunting stuff. (Not to speak of the fact that many feel "mindless grinding" as something relaxing, actually!) You just would have to create 100+ planets with story to equal the play-time amount a MMO like WOW or EQ2 or GW can muster by grind. Grind, meaning "not heroic, simple, repetitive task", which is not fitting into the category of "heroic story". You know, the usual type of MMO quests. All the trimmings of other MMORPGS = not heroic, simple, repetitive tasks that you can do over and over and over again (should you choose).
So, challange my analysis. I have and I believe your fears are not justified. Bioware is one of the best gaming companies in existence and if there is one thing you can be sure of, it is that they do their homework. Every game this company makes is polished and of great quality. They have no doubt spent countless hours thinking about their game and the MMORPG genre as a whole. They would not be so stupid as to jump into a new genre without fully understanding the necessary components inherent in it and planning accordingly. The company is full of people who are gamers themselves and they understand what makes a game great. Now before I write a novel replying to your post, I will close by saying this: Have faith! Bioware will not let you down.
I.) Bioware, EA and LucasArts always emphasize "story". In fact we have not heard of a single gameplay sphere any detail other than that. There is that suspicious fact we hear NO other "usually expected" detail whatsoever, now for a long time. Which is no argument in itself, yes, just a hint. The central point here is: they always emphasized, that ALL of SWTOR is story driven. ALL is heroic and there is NO usual grind, no "un-heroic" battle like "kill 20 rats". Point 1. The game is still very much in development and it is very common for companies to keep some gameplay elements secret until closer to release. Just because the heroic story is what they are focusing on right now does not mean that it is the entire focus. They have already mentioned that the game will have all the usual trimmings of an MMORPG, so I don't really see where you are getting the idea that this will be so different. We may not have the details on things like the combat system yet, but from what I read from those who tested it at E3, it will be very fun and engaging.
II.) They have hinted every class has its planet. With the map circling around we have 16 planets, that makes 8 class bound planet. So 50% granted solo game. Or at best intra-class co-op. Tho why should you when its "your class story". Not waterproof, but a measure of balance. In other games, every race has their own starting cities and areas. This does not mean that these areas are closed off to other races/classes or that there will be nothing of value to others in those areas. I'm sure there will be something to do on every planet for every class. I seriously doubt that Bioware has the intention of segregating everyone into their own planets entirely based off class.
III.) We know we have combat companions, and we know Bioware said, the game can be entirely soloed. Fact! Now what is crystal clear to me: the easier quests are, the more soloable, the less grouping happens. Grouping is what happens when people need to group. Now sure the rise of soloing can be seen. But the fact is, most people who can solo will solo. With NPC companion. Now the life-force of any MMO is it's community. Communites form through grouping for a large part. By shared experiences. But from my POV, when everything CAN be soloed, most WILL solo it. Now if you are busy, busy with your story, why share it, when a NPC does it? Communities are formed by and large through the "hunting party experience", when a team overcomes an obstacle a single person could not. The rise of solo-friendlyness has so far seriously damaged the community spirit in MMOs. I have interpreted their remarks as meaning that every player can get through their single-player story arc solo if they so choose. This does not mean that everything in the game can be accomplished solo. They have already mentioned that dungeons/raids will be a part of this game and obviously this content will not be soloable. Personally I am extremely happy that we will be able to get through our personal story arcs without groups. That just means that we can play the game on our own time and enjoy the content at a pace that works for every type of gamer. Obviously not everyone has time to adhere to crazy raid schedules or find groups every time they want to play. Games that are designed to force people into grouping are flawed and will always remain niche. The OPTION to group will always be there and groups will no doubt be essential for the epic raid content. This seems very similar to other MMOs to me...
IV.) Now no matter how good your stories are, I just dont see it that a decend number of players stays in a MMO for more than 3-4 months. I just do not see it. Taking the not small playtime per day of the average MMO gamer, I am sure most will be through the story 2 times by then at LEAST. I am sorry if I have to burst your bubble, but a game merely driven by story wont hold people alone a long time. 6 months is the max. time. Based on my understanding, the stories in the game will function to remove the 'grind' from the game. This only means that we won't have to perform mindlessly repetitive tasks for months to get from 1 - max level. Once you get to the end game, as Bioware has already stated, the game will have all the same features of any other MMORPG. I take this to mean that if you want to go kill the same mobs 1000000000 times, you can. If you want to raid, you can. If you want to do a dungeon or repeatable quest that you have already done 100 times, go for it. Nothing they have released thus far has indicated that this will not be the case.
V.) The ONLY thing proven to keep gamers a longer time, is repetitive tasks, like it or not. Just going out hunting stuff. (Not to speak of the fact that many feel "mindless grinding" as something relaxing, actually!) You just would have to create 100+ planets with story to equal the play-time amount a MMO like WOW or EQ2 or GW can muster by grind. Grind, meaning "not heroic, simple, repetitive task", which is not fitting into the category of "heroic story". You know, the usual type of MMO quests. All the trimmings of other MMORPGS = not heroic, simple, repetitive tasks that you can do over and over and over again (should you choose).
So, challange my analysis. I have and I believe your fears are not justified. Bioware is one of the best gaming companies in existence and if there is one thing you can be sure of, it is that they do their homework. Every game this company makes is polished and of great quality. They have no doubt spent countless hours thinking about their game and the MMORPG genre as a whole. They would not be so stupid as to jump into a new genre without fully understanding the necessary components inherent in it and planning accordingly. The company is full of people who are gamers themselves and they understand what makes a game great. Now before I write a novel replying to your post, I will close by saying this: Have faith! Bioware will not let you down.
Despite what those thinking I am evil incarnate think, I hope you are right. Really.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Ok right ahead: I am very serious with this, and I dont intend to provoke you, but this is the result of weeks and months of thinking and following news and info, and I would really be interested in your (thoughtful) critique. Here comes the thesis first: Bioware is either deceiting themselves about what a success SWTOR can be, OR they are deceiving us about the nature of the game.
Now to the analysis. I will try to keep it a brief as possible. I hope I dont create loopholes by shortage, but I may add to it, if some parts are unclear. I.) Bioware, EA and LucasArts always emphasize "story". In fact we have not heard of a single gameplay sphere any detail other than that. There is that suspicious fact we hear NO other "usually expected" detail whatsoever, now for a long time. Which is no argument in itself, yes, just a hint. The central point here is: they always emphasized, that ALL of SWTOR is story driven. ALL is heroic and there is NO usual grind, no "un-heroic" battle like "kill 20 rats". Point 1.
I read about this far. The main reason I read this far is because reading your sentences is like having a puzzle. I have to fill in words in spots there should be words. I have to assume sometimes that you meant to put a word here or spell this word correctly. Spelling and grammar is important because it helps the people you are talking to understand exactly what you mean. If you had everything spelled correctly in this I would have read more. I don't like to read things where I have to try to deduce what you are "trying" to tell me. Sorry...the internet is not an excuse for the retardation of the English language or an excuse to bypass all the rules of grammar. Next time you want to make a serious post please put some time and effort into spelling things correctly and putting in words where they should be.
Right back at ya. Why don't you try picking a font color that doesn't blind nearly half the people trying to read it. Oh, and welcome to the internet. There is a rumor going around that there are non native english speakers on it that probably have a greater command of second and third languages than you do of common decency and tact.
I'm sorry. Is the red font too blinding for you to read? I have never had a complaint about using red until now. Maybe this color will help you. Your argument is on the same level as the mothers and fathers who congratulate their child for failing a test. They tell him "hey, you tried your best." I also assumed (don't get me started on assumptions) that this was a native English speaking person. The only reason I complained about it was because he was leaving out things that I see people who type in a frenzy leave out. He tried to make an intelligent post but did not bother to take the time and read over it to make sure it sounded intelligent. The problem with this is if someone wants to sound intelligent then they should at least put in the minimum effort to do so.
Example 1: " In fact we have not heard of a single gameplay sphere any detail other than that. There is that suspicious fact we hear NO other "usually expected" detail whatsoever, now for a long time. "
What in the hell is he trying to say here? Please enlighten me.
Example 2:" I am very serious with this, and I dont intend to provoke you, but this is the result of weeks and months of thinking and following news and info, and I would really be interested in your (thoughtful) critique."
I can read this and understand what the author (notice i didn't say OP...I'm not too lazy to type author as most are here on the internet) is saying. It doesn't feel like a chore to have to piece everything together.
I never once said that this person was an idiot. I didn't call him a name. I didn't do anything to make this person feel bad in any way. All I did was give him some direction for the next time he wants to make an intelligent post. Believe me. I'm all for intelligent posts. We sure as hell don't have near enough of them on these forums. So please take your decency and tact and shove them right in your mouth where all the bullshit is spilling out. I have more decency and tact than you will ever know of.
Tinfoil hattery is tinfoil hattery no matter how one tries to dress it up or how many words you try to hide it behind.
Your "analysis" is pure speculation based on...... assumptions.
To everyone 'debating' this:
You are all just being ridiculous. The game isn't even in beta yet. People whom we know and respect in the industry HAVE played some of the in-house stuff and have said it is fun. All of you are just being silly about this. It's a game... made by a respectable gaming company. Just wait and freaking see whether it's good or not. All this speculation is silly.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
"Spelling and grammar is important because it helps the people you are talking to understand exactly what you mean." Oh, the irony. Oh, the humanity.
Mistakes happen. Fucking up an entire huge ass post doesn't. You were able to understand what I was saying without having to feel like you were doing a puzzle. Don't argue with me about this fact because I know I'm right. The point is that I could not continue reading the authors post because it felt like a chore. My post was not full of crazy phrases and words. It wasn't filled with misspellings and put into a puzzle-like structure. I know...you think you got me but you really just proved my point.
Since you invited people to challenge your analysis, I'll have a go, just for fun ^_^. One thing that stuck out to me was where you said that the only thing that retains players is repetative tasks.
I'll disagree on that point. I've been retained because of things like socialization, community building, character building, character customization, story arcs to complete, new story-driven content, house-building, house-decorating, base building, massive faction wars, and other forms of PvP.
These experiences suggest that the usual repetitive grind is in fact not necessary to keep players. I'd go further to say that it's also less desirable than some other options.
I also think Bioware is inventing a new species of MMO here. It appears that you're using older games as some kind of benchmark. A metaphor about new wine in old wine skins comes to mind. I think you may be trying to measure volume with a yard stick, so to speak.
Also, since much of the information about this game is not yet available to the public, I think it's a bit early to start coming to conclusions about how successful it will be. At this point, I also don't see any evidence of deception on the part of the developers. Everything seems to suggest that they're simply working very hard to come up with an innovative product. I think they've been at it for some time now, and I wish them every success. I'm actually very excited to see what they come up with .
I'm sure it will be a good game, but from the interview I just don't think they are in touch with what the next big evolution in MMO's is going to be.
To me the voice overs are a nice added touch, but it isn't something that is going to make this game miles ahead of anything else already available. The whole storyline thing is flawed too, so I kind of agree with the OP.
I mean most of us only like certain types of classes. It doesn't matter if there are 16 classes, which 8 are mirror images of others(from what I have read). So you may play 3 or 4 of those classes. IMO I don't think they can do enough storytelling to keep, at least me, glued to the game for any extended period of time.
I don't agree on you having to do repetitive stuff to keep you interested in a game though. It is just there has been nothing else engaging enough to keep you playing.
For me, and I have been saying this for years, it will end up being the combat in these games that keeps me glued. No one has quiet got a grip on that situation though.
I'm not here downing this game at all, I'm sure it WILL be a great game. I just don't think the devs are in touch with reality if they think they are going to see anything even close to 1/4 of WOW numbers. I imagine it will have around 1 to 2 mil subs, which is an excellent user base.
I would present evidence that much of this, while a valid concern for people who don't follow the game closely, but has already been proven otherwise by a few posters.
The game will be an MMO, just instead of leveling up by killing x of y, running to q, and finding H for no point what so every, it will actually be a BIOWARE story. I highly doubt they would make it so you can't run around killing anything, ignoring the story completely if you so choose.
They also mentioned high end crafting, PvP, raiding, etc.
OP as to your post. I assume you don't buy many books? this is not a insult but you infer that storys do not in and of themselves sell. You seem to want your game style from SWTOR and not seeing it in your style believe no one else will like it? ie You don't seem to care much for stories thus no one else does? Strangely enough though people do buy books or rent/go to movies for "The story"
Another thing you seem to have overlooked. Being able to solo does not = being able to solo everything. Take EQ2 for example and almost every MMO currently out. You can Solo in most of them. However you will not be able to Solo everything, if you try you will in fact generally wind up missing out on some of the best encounters, rewards etc.
Sure MMO's can force players to group which you seem to approve of. However isn't better when games instead of Forcing players to group instead make them want to group of their own free will?
Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. Unfortunately in Gamming many seem to think there is only one right way and that its theirs. The genre stagnants because many players with views somewhat like yours believe there is no other way, that trying something new or different that doesn't fit into their preconcieved notions = fail. To a certain extent they are partially right, anytime a developer trys something new they run the risk of failure. SWTOR may well fail, but I'd also say you are over thinking it with still 2-3 years at least till the game comes out and with so little information to go on.
Yes we know you wanted SWTOR to be SWG pre-cu/nge it isn't and your disappointed. I assume you never played the KoToR series or didn't like them as you seem to think a extension of such stories into MMO will not work. However honestly wouldn't you get tired after awhile of every game coming out being a SWG clone? (there are surely enough people claiming there are too many WoW clones)
Keep a open mind, you might not get what you want but it is also possible you might get something even better.
You know what? What may be different about the stories in TOR is this…. I think they are aiming to really provoke emotion in these stories to steer your decisions in this game. Wouldn't surprise me if they convinced the docs to hire a psychologist, since they hinted at a certain type of “research, and thought study” going into this game well before we heard it was TOR. I thought that was strange when I heard it. What if there were at least a few parts of your story arc where you go "WTF?" And you may even feel sadness, happiness, anger, fear, humor in an MMO story. When is the last time you felt that type of emotion in an MMO? Or any game for that mater? Was it as good as it could have been? Perhaps playing a BioWare game? Imagine the possibilities. It’ll be interesting to see if they pull this off. If you get pas the mechanical aspects of game grinding and pew pewing you may actually feel immersed. That’s the problem with gamers these days, they never take enough time to slow down and actually enjoy a game and its plot the way it was meant to be enjoyed, unless you are forced, or steered. BioWare will force you to slow down by making decisions in the game mater because they can actually effect you long term.
you still don't get it do you the fun thing about gaming is winning
people dont want storys or any of that bs people want to sit down and play a hard game and win that is why tons of people played swg it was hard and when you won you got some of the greatest rewards ever the biggest being the reward for you to become a jedi knight
people want pvp and lots of it that is why aoc failed as rather then go and be a pvp game now they are letting the carebears run that game into the ground
bioware owes all of us a good pre-cu game and tor should be that game and i along with 250k of my friends demand that bioware give us that game
we took down $OE do you really think ea and bioware would stand a chance and after this whole left 4 dead 2 thing believe me ea doesn't have all that long
Comments
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/videos/gameID/367/videoId/1456
For your viewing pleasure, we have yet another interview where a lot of the same information is being presented. Enjoy these next 3 minutes and 23 seconds of marketing bliss. I'm sure I've missed some interviews somewhere. Can someone point out where something new has been provided aside from the cinematic everyone is drooling over? This is E3, ladies and gentlemen.
Agreed about the research part.
I find a lot of speculation like this (the entire thread) can be solved by clicking a few links, reading/watching and going, "Oh, question answered then." If Bioware hasn't released any gameplay info to the general public well guess what that means? Nothing. Unless you're an investor they don't answer to you. WE, the consumer, have zero rights to demand information for something we arent paying for.
Bioware has confirmed the usual MMO faire as far as gameplay goes and you can get very brief glimpses as to how the classes they have posted will feel from the videos. If you want more information then you really only have a few options: 1. Email them (good luck with that, hahah!) 2. Become a portion investor in the game or stockholder - they'd be legally obligated to release info to you, but you'd be under a very legally-binding NDA. 3. Stop following their product, don't buy it and move on.
Those are your only real options. Creating these grand schemes based purely off of conjecture and inuendo is more than a little ludicrous. Also keep in mind we still have no idea of an even vague release date beyond -maybe- Q1 of 2010. They still haven't even finalized any of their classes. Any information we know now could be changed six months from now.
I read about this far. The main reason I read this far is because reading your sentences is like having a puzzle. I have to fill in words in spots there should be words. I have to assume sometimes that you meant to put a word here or spell this word correctly. Spelling and grammar is important because it helps the people you are talking to understand exactly what you mean. If you had everything spelled correctly in this I would have read more. I don't like to read things where I have to try to deduce what you are "trying" to tell me. Sorry...the internet is not an excuse for the retardation of the English language or an excuse to bypass all the rules of grammar. Next time you want to make a serious post please put some time and effort into spelling things correctly and putting in words where they should be.
I read about this far. The main reason I read this far is because reading your sentences is like having a puzzle. I have to fill in words in spots there should be words. I have to assume sometimes that you meant to put a word here or spell this word correctly. Spelling and grammar is important because it helps the people you are talking to understand exactly what you mean. If you had everything spelled correctly in this I would have read more. I don't like to read things where I have to try to deduce what you are "trying" to tell me. Sorry...the internet is not an excuse for the retardation of the English language or an excuse to bypass all the rules of grammar. Next time you want to make a serious post please put some time and effort into spelling things correctly and putting in words where they should be.
I think English is his second language, no need to be rude about it.
I read about this far. The main reason I read this far is because reading your sentences is like having a puzzle. I have to fill in words in spots there should be words. I have to assume sometimes that you meant to put a word here or spell this word correctly. Spelling and grammar is important because it helps the people you are talking to understand exactly what you mean. If you had everything spelled correctly in this I would have read more. I don't like to read things where I have to try to deduce what you are "trying" to tell me. Sorry...the internet is not an excuse for the retardation of the English language or an excuse to bypass all the rules of grammar. Next time you want to make a serious post please put some time and effort into spelling things correctly and putting in words where they should be.
I think English is his second language, no need to be rude about it.
doubtful. everyones crapping their pants over this game is quite funny. some people seem to have the impression this game is going to release next month or something with how vehemently they demand to know every detail of the game and how it needs to be out now. patience is a virtue. this game may be out in two years or next year who knows. details of the game will be given out on a need to know basis. right now none of us need to know. quit crapping your depends.
First, english is my 4th language- in before anyone attacks, and it is 05:30 in the morning, so I will not even make that great of an effort to get everything right.
Second, I don't agree fully with the OP extrapolations due to the fact they are extrapolations. Until we/I get some real factology about SW:TOR attempting to guess things is a very risky subject,
Still, there is one thing , that the OP states, that I kind of feel in my bones; Many, many people (not me, since I do keep a prettu open mind and am willing to accept noveltry) will have a huge deception with SW;TOR, not because it will be a bad game, rather because it will not be what they are expecting .
We kind of already know that crafting and grouping are not the main focus. We already know about the henchman aspect, and based on the footage of gameplay it looks they are pushing into a "wowish action type of gameplay" direction - what is ok I might add, but also might alienate some players that consider anything close to wow the spawn of satan.
And, third, one thing that MIGHT cause some deception is the possibility of EA using , adding or incorporating a "micro transaction bussiness model" to SW:TOR. EA is already advancing to that with the Asiatic localization of Warhammer - that for all that we know , might be just a testbed for the future. And I do know that i'll be flamed by second guessing this last aspect, but- and it is a big but- I do recall EA's CEO stating, some months ago, that EA planned to implement such kind of bussiness model to MMO's.
Having said all of that, must state that I am not "worried". I don't expect a second comming of SWG like many or a return to the MMO UO times, and expect Bioware to deliver a working, functional , well designed game - that I might like or not. Future will say.
I don't expect them to make a bad game, BUT from the details leaked so far it doesn't look like the kinda of MMO I want to pay a monthly fee for.
When I want story driven games I prefer standalone RPG's. For MMO's I prefer a game thats more community oriented. Not that it forces community, that would suck, but it should encourage or promote community.
But like I said, I don't expect them to make a bad game so I'll just stick with waiting until 6 months after launch and a free trial and I'll be happy to try it out.
I read about this far. The main reason I read this far is because reading your sentences is like having a puzzle. I have to fill in words in spots there should be words. I have to assume sometimes that you meant to put a word here or spell this word correctly. Spelling and grammar is important because it helps the people you are talking to understand exactly what you mean. If you had everything spelled correctly in this I would have read more. I don't like to read things where I have to try to deduce what you are "trying" to tell me. Sorry...the internet is not an excuse for the retardation of the English language or an excuse to bypass all the rules of grammar. Next time you want to make a serious post please put some time and effort into spelling things correctly and putting in words where they should be.
Right back at ya. Why don't you try picking a font color that doesn't blind nearly half the people trying to read it. Oh, and welcome to the internet. There is a rumor going around that there are non native english speakers on it that probably have a greater command of second and third languages than you do of common decency and tact.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Assuming they do contract out psychologists they only need to elicit the following emotion for amazing financial success... Anger
1) PVP: Make sure the classes are unbalanced on a 3 month rotational basis so PvP'ers have lots to get angry over.
2) Story Arc: You hit the nail on the head. Get the role-players angry and they will get Emo and keep subscribing.
3) Loot/Quest Items: Make a micro transaction system so people have to shell out RL money to look/be uber in a game. This one is obvious.
4) Forums: Create an online forum where all the players can drag their drama amongst each other inside the game and rip each others throats out.
You, like many others in this forum, are assuming an awful lot. Gaming companies release limited information on upcoming games for a reason - to provoke discussion and 'hype'.
Look what this did for 'Darkfail' - probably the worst MMO ever to hit the market.
Anyways, you are right about one thing. Soloing is becoming very prominent in current and future MMO's. Why? Because a lot of people want to solo, but be aware that other people are still around and creating a dynamic environment that can be joined when and if they feel like it. I am one of these people. Generally, I find a lot of asswipes in MMO's that I want as little to do with as possible. If I need to group to accomplish certain goals etc, then I will do it and then move on to enjoy the game predominantly by myself.
Do I enjoy playing in guilds where dweebs who are failures in real life, can mould a group of people into doing their bidding and playing the game to suit their own needs? No, I don't. I haven't joined a guild in an MMO for quite a long time, and the odd ones I do join I last about 10 minutes.
You talk about 'community' creating the 'story' and determining the foundation of any particular server. The problem is that nowadays the community turn most servers into vile, polluted cesspits, full of teenage angst and an environment that enables these 'creatures' to get away with behaviour that under normal conditions would result in their decapitation.
The more solo content in MMO's the better, as far as I am concerned.
Btw, I enjoy games that offer the PvP style of environment where solo play is an awful lot of fun. I particularly enjoy the system that AoC has, where the tears and anger of these other other players can quite literaly be tasted. It is so sweet.
An analysis based on pure speculation = pure speculation.
This.
At this point, analysis of gameplay in SW:TOR is like analysis of the 2014 baseball season. You can't "analyze" something that we know next to nothing about.
I also love the willful ignorance of people when they decide from day one that they're not going to like a game, and rail against it even though they don't know shit about it.
An analysis based on pure speculation = pure speculation.
This.
At this point, analysis of gameplay in SW:TOR is like analysis of the 2014 baseball season. You can't "analyze" something that we know next to nothing about.
First, I simply deny that we know next to nothing about it. They have said much more than many are aware of. Like it wont be heavily instanced. That people don't listen, is not my fault. They still repeat it will be a GW like game, which they have said several times it wont be. Sure, there is a substantial lot of stuff they have not elaborated on. But is this the first MMO we have ever seen?
I think there are not so few informations, that it is commonly assumed, even tho still many parts are very vague. But with a bit experience on the previous 100+ existing MMOs, of which I have at least experienced about 30 or so by now, and with a bit common sense what works with people and what doesnt, I dont think it is so difficult to construct a picture.
Humans function after quite predicable patterns. Sociology is based on this idea.
So when you observe a certain amount of MMOs you can see what works and what doesn't. For instance, need creates communites. Making games too easy and too soloable kills a big portion of community, since people by nature are egoistic. I find it HILARIOUS that Bioware seriously says, some Jedi accompanies a Smuggler friend just for the sake of friendship! Thats preposterous to assume! People are way less "kind" to do that, outside of close RL friends maybe. So when you like groups you can not build a game which is "all the way soloable" as Bioware claims. That WILL mean little community, if you do even so much as a little MMO research.
Or that you have to place game hubs to encourage communities. One reason that greatly hindered the community forming of VG. People reached hubs only at mid level range and all the early level people were alone in their many areas. That is something that is nice in terms of story, since VG was able to tell stories of the various races in the starter areas, but it was VERY BAD for the community spirit. All people were scattered all over the game world, and consequently the idea was killed with the Starter Isle, which is usually seen as progress. Thats why I assume letting every class start somewhere else will be damaging to community spirit, and people will in the end for said reasons be highly disinclined to group. It is not such a wild assumption IMO.
The only alternative would be Bioware lied to us, and they DO have "normal MMO stuff". Which is btw what I hope for. Better lied to in the past than have a bad MMO in the future.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
"Spelling and grammar is important because it helps the people you are talking to understand exactly what you mean."
Oh, the irony. Oh, the humanity.
Six posts in 5 years, and all you have to say is about spelling? Sad.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Despite what those thinking I am evil incarnate think, I hope you are right.
Really.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I read about this far. The main reason I read this far is because reading your sentences is like having a puzzle. I have to fill in words in spots there should be words. I have to assume sometimes that you meant to put a word here or spell this word correctly. Spelling and grammar is important because it helps the people you are talking to understand exactly what you mean. If you had everything spelled correctly in this I would have read more. I don't like to read things where I have to try to deduce what you are "trying" to tell me. Sorry...the internet is not an excuse for the retardation of the English language or an excuse to bypass all the rules of grammar. Next time you want to make a serious post please put some time and effort into spelling things correctly and putting in words where they should be.
Right back at ya. Why don't you try picking a font color that doesn't blind nearly half the people trying to read it. Oh, and welcome to the internet. There is a rumor going around that there are non native english speakers on it that probably have a greater command of second and third languages than you do of common decency and tact.
I'm sorry. Is the red font too blinding for you to read? I have never had a complaint about using red until now. Maybe this color will help you. Your argument is on the same level as the mothers and fathers who congratulate their child for failing a test. They tell him "hey, you tried your best." I also assumed (don't get me started on assumptions) that this was a native English speaking person. The only reason I complained about it was because he was leaving out things that I see people who type in a frenzy leave out. He tried to make an intelligent post but did not bother to take the time and read over it to make sure it sounded intelligent. The problem with this is if someone wants to sound intelligent then they should at least put in the minimum effort to do so.
Example 1: " In fact we have not heard of a single gameplay sphere any detail other than that. There is that suspicious fact we hear NO other "usually expected" detail whatsoever, now for a long time. "
What in the hell is he trying to say here? Please enlighten me.
Example 2:" I am very serious with this, and I dont intend to provoke you, but this is the result of weeks and months of thinking and following news and info, and I would really be interested in your (thoughtful) critique."
I can read this and understand what the author (notice i didn't say OP...I'm not too lazy to type author as most are here on the internet) is saying. It doesn't feel like a chore to have to piece everything together.
I never once said that this person was an idiot. I didn't call him a name. I didn't do anything to make this person feel bad in any way. All I did was give him some direction for the next time he wants to make an intelligent post. Believe me. I'm all for intelligent posts. We sure as hell don't have near enough of them on these forums. So please take your decency and tact and shove them right in your mouth where all the bullshit is spilling out. I have more decency and tact than you will ever know of.
To the OP:
Tinfoil hattery is tinfoil hattery no matter how one tries to dress it up or how many words you try to hide it behind.
Your "analysis" is pure speculation based on...... assumptions.
To everyone 'debating' this:
You are all just being ridiculous. The game isn't even in beta yet. People whom we know and respect in the industry HAVE played some of the in-house stuff and have said it is fun. All of you are just being silly about this. It's a game... made by a respectable gaming company. Just wait and freaking see whether it's good or not. All this speculation is silly.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Mistakes happen. Fucking up an entire huge ass post doesn't. You were able to understand what I was saying without having to feel like you were doing a puzzle. Don't argue with me about this fact because I know I'm right. The point is that I could not continue reading the authors post because it felt like a chore. My post was not full of crazy phrases and words. It wasn't filled with misspellings and put into a puzzle-like structure. I know...you think you got me but you really just proved my point.
Since you invited people to challenge your analysis, I'll have a go, just for fun ^_^. One thing that stuck out to me was where you said that the only thing that retains players is repetative tasks.
I'll disagree on that point. I've been retained because of things like socialization, community building, character building, character customization, story arcs to complete, new story-driven content, house-building, house-decorating, base building, massive faction wars, and other forms of PvP.
These experiences suggest that the usual repetitive grind is in fact not necessary to keep players. I'd go further to say that it's also less desirable than some other options.
I also think Bioware is inventing a new species of MMO here. It appears that you're using older games as some kind of benchmark. A metaphor about new wine in old wine skins comes to mind. I think you may be trying to measure volume with a yard stick, so to speak.
Also, since much of the information about this game is not yet available to the public, I think it's a bit early to start coming to conclusions about how successful it will be. At this point, I also don't see any evidence of deception on the part of the developers. Everything seems to suggest that they're simply working very hard to come up with an innovative product. I think they've been at it for some time now, and I wish them every success. I'm actually very excited to see what they come up with
.
I'm sure it will be a good game, but from the interview I just don't think they are in touch with what the next big evolution in MMO's is going to be.
To me the voice overs are a nice added touch, but it isn't something that is going to make this game miles ahead of anything else already available. The whole storyline thing is flawed too, so I kind of agree with the OP.
I mean most of us only like certain types of classes. It doesn't matter if there are 16 classes, which 8 are mirror images of others(from what I have read). So you may play 3 or 4 of those classes. IMO I don't think they can do enough storytelling to keep, at least me, glued to the game for any extended period of time.
I don't agree on you having to do repetitive stuff to keep you interested in a game though. It is just there has been nothing else engaging enough to keep you playing.
For me, and I have been saying this for years, it will end up being the combat in these games that keeps me glued. No one has quiet got a grip on that situation though.
I'm not here downing this game at all, I'm sure it WILL be a great game. I just don't think the devs are in touch with reality if they think they are going to see anything even close to 1/4 of WOW numbers. I imagine it will have around 1 to 2 mil subs, which is an excellent user base.
Just maybe not what they are expecting...
I would present evidence that much of this, while a valid concern for people who don't follow the game closely, but has already been proven otherwise by a few posters.
The game will be an MMO, just instead of leveling up by killing x of y, running to q, and finding H for no point what so every, it will actually be a BIOWARE story. I highly doubt they would make it so you can't run around killing anything, ignoring the story completely if you so choose.
They also mentioned high end crafting, PvP, raiding, etc.
OP as to your post. I assume you don't buy many books? this is not a insult but you infer that storys do not in and of themselves sell. You seem to want your game style from SWTOR and not seeing it in your style believe no one else will like it? ie You don't seem to care much for stories thus no one else does? Strangely enough though people do buy books or rent/go to movies for "The story"
Another thing you seem to have overlooked. Being able to solo does not = being able to solo everything. Take EQ2 for example and almost every MMO currently out. You can Solo in most of them. However you will not be able to Solo everything, if you try you will in fact generally wind up missing out on some of the best encounters, rewards etc.
Sure MMO's can force players to group which you seem to approve of. However isn't better when games instead of Forcing players to group instead make them want to group of their own free will?
Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. Unfortunately in Gamming many seem to think there is only one right way and that its theirs. The genre stagnants because many players with views somewhat like yours believe there is no other way, that trying something new or different that doesn't fit into their preconcieved notions = fail. To a certain extent they are partially right, anytime a developer trys something new they run the risk of failure. SWTOR may well fail, but I'd also say you are over thinking it with still 2-3 years at least till the game comes out and with so little information to go on.
Yes we know you wanted SWTOR to be SWG pre-cu/nge it isn't and your disappointed. I assume you never played the KoToR series or didn't like them as you seem to think a extension of such stories into MMO will not work. However honestly wouldn't you get tired after awhile of every game coming out being a SWG clone? (there are surely enough people claiming there are too many WoW clones)
Keep a open mind, you might not get what you want but it is also possible you might get something even better.
you still don't get it do you the fun thing about gaming is winning
people dont want storys or any of that bs people want to sit down and play a hard game and win that is why tons of people played swg it was hard and when you won you got some of the greatest rewards ever the biggest being the reward for you to become a jedi knight
people want pvp and lots of it that is why aoc failed as rather then go and be a pvp game now they are letting the carebears run that game into the ground
bioware owes all of us a good pre-cu game and tor should be that game and i along with 250k of my friends demand that bioware give us that game
we took down $OE do you really think ea and bioware would stand a chance and after this whole left 4 dead 2 thing believe me ea doesn't have all that long