I'm sick of the current mmo system where you run into a camp and go round filling your log with whatever has an exclamation mark floating over their heads then pretty much alt-tabbing to go find co-ords for whatever you need to collect.
A story driven mmo is like a giant step forward. Now you have to actually have a conversation with npcs and probably use persuasion/lie type skill traits to initiate a quest. This type of gameplay promotes exploration and you'll find yourself exploring every little nook and cranny.
If you've ever played bioware games their quest system was a far cry from kill ten rats.
So, in the OP's opinion, Bioware should scrap all the story, and add in about 500,000 "go to point A, kill 100 mob B's" quests? Oh, I almost forgot! Also, make it so you can't solo anything either?
I don't think BioWare is trying to deceive anyone. I do however think that the big players ignore why MMOs were once immersive. People seem to think that "something new" means devolving into a single player game. Stories need to be told in a different way in MMOs than in single player games. The only way you could do a single player story in an MMO is to actually craft thousands, maybe millions of stories. That is simply not possible. They chose 8. No, your "choices" won't matter that much. They will just make you evil or good. BioWare is great at telling stories, but not so great at making stories (in my opinion). KOTOR (which I loved) was pretty much the same as the Star Wars movies with different character names. This is the NGE come to fruition. You will be playing Luke Skywalker and Darth Maul, not your own character.
Now, I think this game will be an AWESOME single player game (because I love BioWare's games), but I don't feel they really converted it to an MMO. I think they just made it so people can experience the single player game in a more connected way. It is more like evolving community forums rather than MMORPGs.
Also, we need to stop thinking in terms of "forced solo" or "forced grouping". Those are simply lame mechanics. If you are thinking in terms like that, well, there is probably nothing special anyways. I think we should all be thinking in terms of experiences - what YOU the character DO in the game in the context of the WORLD provided. If there's something tough, its logical that you would need many players to do it - but the players should figure that out. MMOs shouldn't be meta-games or mini-games....otherwise there is no reason for the MMO portion....just make it a regular multiplayer game (nothing wrong with that). I feel like immersion and persistance has been shafted, and will be shafted in this game. I hope BioWare took into consideration what an MMO entails. Will a power gamer who finishes the game in 2 weeks spoil it for everyone else? Can there even be such a thing as plot twists?
I understand that some naysayers simply troll, but I think there is genuinely a great concern that supposed fans ignore. I don't think this post was made with mal-intent, so our discussions should be about the game instead of speculated poster factions (i.e. You're either a troll or a fanboy....fight to the death!). What's the point of forums if not to post? One thing we can all agree on (probably) is that TOR is definitely the next big thing (whether it be actual playerbase or most talked about).
______________________ Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
1. 8 classes total, thats 8 starting planets. Those are either just the starting zones or 2 of each of the factions progress into larger level areas. The nice thing about planets versus continents is that their is more land mass to play with, multiple continents per planet. Each starting planet could be a complete 1-Max level grind.
2. Most MMOs support that they have something special over all other MMOs, War said it would have the best PvP system thus they focused all their effort with pvp. Tor will be based on Storyline, meaning the action and reaction with NPCs will be promoted.
3. Its not surprising they havnt announced any thing but storyline, thats the only thing other games wont directly steal out right and put in their game. WoW is reknown for taking good things other MMOs did but failed at the rest and put them in their game with more polish but not as much creativity.
lol, waaaaaay too early to be saying anything. From what it sounds like...you think that each class will have a story, finish it, and the games over. They have stated it will have pvp, guilds, crafting, raiding, etc.. They straight up said they want to compete with WoW and they feel they can. If that's the case, you can expect them to come up with things to keep players around. This won't be KOTOR 3, this will be something much more.
I believe all the other stuff will be in there I just believe you don't have to do all the other stuff to get to max level. I think it is mostly you can get to max level by your story. I also think you can grind mobs to get to max level and ignore the story completley if you want to. Just my opinion.
I think it is more of You don't have to grind. Than there is no grind in the game. If you wish to just play story and not grind you can play to max level than roll an alt and have that char entire story to go through, and so on. Or you can get to max levle with your char and grind rep if it is there. Craft, raid instances for best loot.
OP as to your post. I assume you don't buy many books? this is not a insult but you infer that storys do not in and of themselves sell. You seem to want your game style from SWTOR and not seeing it in your style believe no one else will like it? ie You don't seem to care much for stories thus no one else does? Strangely enough though people do buy books or rent/go to movies for "The story" Another thing you seem to have overlooked. Being able to solo does not = being able to solo everything. Take EQ2 for example and almost every MMO currently out. You can Solo in most of them. However you will not be able to Solo everything, if you try you will in fact generally wind up missing out on some of the best encounters, rewards etc. Sure MMO's can force players to group which you seem to approve of. However isn't better when games instead of Forcing players to group instead make them want to group of their own free will? Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. Unfortunately in Gamming many seem to think there is only one right way and that its theirs. The genre stagnants because many players with views somewhat like yours believe there is no other way, that trying something new or different that doesn't fit into their preconcieved notions = fail. To a certain extent they are partially right, anytime a developer trys something new they run the risk of failure. SWTOR may well fail, but I'd also say you are over thinking it with still 2-3 years at least till the game comes out and with so little information to go on. Yes we know you wanted SWTOR to be SWG pre-cu/nge it isn't and your disappointed. I assume you never played the KoToR series or didn't like them as you seem to think a extension of such stories into MMO will not work. However honestly wouldn't you get tired after awhile of every game coming out being a SWG clone? (there are surely enough people claiming there are too many WoW clones) Keep a open mind, you might not get what you want but it is also possible you might get something even better.
I don't think there is 2 to 3 years before it comes out. The develpoers say the game is fully playable right now. IN a couple interviews i have seen.
You know what? What may be different about the stories in TOR is this…. I think they are aiming to really provoke emotion in these stories to steer your decisions in this game. Wouldn't surprise me if they convinced the docs to hire a psychologist, since they hinted at a certain type of “research, and thought study” going into this game well before we heard it was TOR. I thought that was strange when I heard it. What if there were at least a few parts of your story arc where you go "WTF?" And you may even feel sadness, happiness, anger, fear, humor in an MMO story. When is the last time you felt that type of emotion in an MMO? Or any game for that mater? Was it as good as it could have been? Perhaps playing a BioWare game? Imagine the possibilities. It’ll be interesting to see if they pull this off. If you get pas the mechanical aspects of game grinding and pew pewing you may actually feel immersed. That’s the problem with gamers these days, they never take enough time to slow down and actually enjoy a game and its plot the way it was meant to be enjoyed, unless you are forced, or steered. BioWare will force you to slow down by making decisions in the game mater because they can actually effect you long term.
you still don't get it do you the fun thing about gaming is winning
people dont want storys or any of that bs people want to sit down and play a hard game and win that is why tons of people played swg it was hard and when you won you got some of the greatest rewards ever the biggest being the reward for you to become a jedi knight
people want pvp and lots of it that is why aoc failed as rather then go and be a pvp game now they are letting the carebears run that game into the ground
bioware owes all of us a good pre-cu game and tor should be that game and i along with 250k of my friends demand that bioware give us that game
we took down $OE do you really think ea and bioware would stand a chance and after this whole left 4 dead 2 thing believe me ea doesn't have all that long
NO, you are the one that doesn't get it. I've been role playing probably since you were still in diapers from the sounds of it, and I've played both in real life, in online chat games (White Wolf ran an online chat where you created characters and played like you would in real life but with people from around the world), and in online games like EQ2.
No, people play because of the story. They want to be involved in a grand story. They want to feel like they matter. They want to be Frodo and Sam and Gandalf, they want to be Luke and Leia and Han, they want to be the hero's of Everquest, they want the story, child. The story is why all of us play these games.
PvP is why people like you play these games, but you are alot rarer than you think. Most people don't just want to beat the crap out of other players. It is NOT carebear, its the truth and you need to stop insulting people if you want to be taken seriously.
As for SOE, you are so full of crap, it isn't even funny. Where in your imagination did you get up with the idiotic idea than anyone took SOE down? From the looks of it, they're still doing just fine. EQ2 is considered by most to be one of the best games on the market. Which you'd know if you bothered to try it instead of behaving like you are.
OP as to your post. I assume you don't buy many books? this is not a insult but you infer that storys do not in and of themselves sell. You seem to want your game style from SWTOR and not seeing it in your style believe no one else will like it? ie You don't seem to care much for stories thus no one else does? Strangely enough though people do buy books or rent/go to movies for "The story" Another thing you seem to have overlooked. Being able to solo does not = being able to solo everything. Take EQ2 for example and almost every MMO currently out. You can Solo in most of them. However you will not be able to Solo everything, if you try you will in fact generally wind up missing out on some of the best encounters, rewards etc. Sure MMO's can force players to group which you seem to approve of. However isn't better when games instead of Forcing players to group instead make them want to group of their own free will? Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. Unfortunately in Gamming many seem to think there is only one right way and that its theirs. The genre stagnants because many players with views somewhat like yours believe there is no other way, that trying something new or different that doesn't fit into their preconcieved notions = fail. To a certain extent they are partially right, anytime a developer trys something new they run the risk of failure. SWTOR may well fail, but I'd also say you are over thinking it with still 2-3 years at least till the game comes out and with so little information to go on. Yes we know you wanted SWTOR to be SWG pre-cu/nge it isn't and your disappointed. I assume you never played the KoToR series or didn't like them as you seem to think a extension of such stories into MMO will not work. However honestly wouldn't you get tired after awhile of every game coming out being a SWG clone? (there are surely enough people claiming there are too many WoW clones) Keep a open mind, you might not get what you want but it is also possible you might get something even better.
I don't think there is 2 to 3 years before it comes out. The develpoers say the game is fully playable right now. IN a couple interviews i have seen.
Yeah, it's pretty much fully developed right now, they are just waiting with the launch to build up the hype about it.
I also believe that most players will just opt to solo through the game. For the most part MMORPG players do not care about the community as a whole nearly as much as individual profit. It has been that way since UO and EQ, because playing video games is an inherintly selfish act if you think about it. There are still plenty of gamers out there, many that played the pen and paper D&D with thier friends, that understand there is more to a multiplayer video game than item upgrades. I dont believe those people are going to get their moneys worth out of SOtOR just from what i've heard so far. They may really like the story, but if you aren't going to interact with other players, and other players are very reluctant to interact with you, then you might as well just play Mass Effect or KotOR. I am not going to pay a monthly fee to to play a single player game. There are enough really good ones out right now that are free once you buy the retail box.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I also believe that most players will just opt to solo through the game. For the most part MMORPG players do not care about the community as a whole nearly as much as individual profit. It has been that way since UO and EQ, because playing video games is an inherintly selfish act if you think about it. There are still plenty of gamers out there, many that played the pen and paper D&D with thier friends, that understand there is more to a multiplayer video game than item upgrades. I dont believe those people are going to get their moneys worth out of SOtOR just from what i've heard so far. They may really like the story, but if you aren't going to interact with other players, and other players are very reluctant to interact with you, then you might as well just play Mass Effect or KotOR. I am not going to pay a monthly fee to to play a single player game. There are enough really good ones out right now that are free once you buy the retail box.
I Lol evertime i see someone say they won't pay a monty fee for a single player game when talking about tor. It is not a single player game and will not be one. The only difference solo play adds to an mmo is that finding the others that love to group takes a little more time because there are so many more people playing it now than if it was group forced like ffxi.
Every interview says it has everything you would expect from an mmo raids,crafting, AH, and so on. Those things are expected so why talk about them.
that would be like making a new car that doesn't run on gas and people saying but no where do they say you can drive it on the road. All they talk about is that it does not need gas to run.
I know bad analagy but best I could come up with at the moment.
Ok right ahead: I am very serious with this, and I dont intend to provoke you, but this is the result of weeks and months of thinking and following news and info, and I would really be interested in your (thoughtful) critique. Here comes the thesis first: Bioware is either deceiting themselves about what a success SWTOR can be, OR they are deceiving us about the nature of the game.
Now to the analysis. I will try to keep it a brief as possible. I hope I dont create loopholes by shortage, but I may add to it, if some parts are unclear. I.) Bioware, EA and LucasArts always emphasize "story". In fact we have not heard of a single gameplay sphere any detail other than that. There is that suspicious fact we hear NO other "usually expected" detail whatsoever, now for a long time. Which is no argument in itself, yes, just a hint. The central point here is: they always emphasized, that ALL of SWTOR is story driven. ALL is heroic and there is NO usual grind, no "un-heroic" battle like "kill 20 rats". Point 1.
I read about this far. The main reason I read this far is because reading your sentences is like having a puzzle. I have to fill in words in spots there should be words. I have to assume sometimes that you meant to put a word here or spell this word correctly. Spelling and grammar is important because it helps the people you are talking to understand exactly what you mean. If you had everything spelled correctly in this I would have read more. I don't like to read things where I have to try to deduce what you are "trying" to tell me. Sorry...the internet is not an excuse for the retardation of the English language or an excuse to bypass all the rules of grammar. Next time you want to make a serious post please put some time and effort into spelling things correctly and putting in words where they should be.
Right back at ya. Why don't you try picking a font color that doesn't blind nearly half the people trying to read it. Oh, and welcome to the internet. There is a rumor going around that there are non native english speakers on it that probably have a greater command of second and third languages than you do of common decency and tact.
BOOM!! HEADSHOT!!
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I also believe that most players will just opt to solo through the game. For the most part MMORPG players do not care about the community as a whole nearly as much as individual profit. It has been that way since UO and EQ, because playing video games is an inherintly selfish act if you think about it. There are still plenty of gamers out there, many that played the pen and paper D&D with thier friends, that understand there is more to a multiplayer video game than item upgrades. I dont believe those people are going to get their moneys worth out of SOtOR just from what i've heard so far. They may really like the story, but if you aren't going to interact with other players, and other players are very reluctant to interact with you, then you might as well just play Mass Effect or KotOR. I am not going to pay a monthly fee to to play a single player game. There are enough really good ones out right now that are free once you buy the retail box.
I Lol evertime i see someone say they won't pay a monty fee for a single player game when talking about tor. It is not a single player game and will not be one. The only difference solo play adds to an mmo is that finding the others that love to group takes a little more time because there are so many more people playing it now than if it was group forced like ffxi.
Every interview says it has everything you would expect from an mmo raids,crafting, AH, and so on. Those things are expected so why talk about them.
that would be like making a new car that doesn't run on gas and people saying but no where do they say you can drive it on the road. All they talk about is that it does not need gas to run.
I know bad analagy but best I could come up with at the moment.
The fact that it can be soloed, means that it will be heavily soloed by a large majority of players. Do you not know what kind of players the majority of MMORPG players are?
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Here is something from another threat here that I thought might put some of your fears to rest:
The MMO Gamer: So then, what happens after the main storyline has ended for those other people you mentioned, who may not even be interested in the story in the first place?
I assume you don’t just tell them, “Well, that’s it! Reroll a Smuggler, play the game again, get the new story!”
Daniel Erickson: Absolutely not. One of the things that we’ve always talked about, because the end-game is incredibly important to a lot of MMO players, if that’s your game, great. That’s going to be there waiting for you.
If you want to do raids, if you want to do the whole end-game stuff, if that’s what you’re excited about, great.
But there’s also a ton of other content waiting for you, if that’s not what your game is about.
James Ohlen: With the end-game we can’t get into too much detail. We can say that the title of this IP is Star Wars. There’s lots of opportunity for conflict, conflict that doesn’t end.
We are going to have the stuff that allows you to continue to play the game. But, if you’re a player like myself, and I think Daniel here is similar, I’m the kind of guy who gets to the end level, and then I’m either going to play a new character, or I’m going to wait for the expansion to come out.
When I play most MMOs, like World of Warcraft, I get to the highest level and then I stop until the next expansion comes out, because I just don’t like doing the end-game activities.
However, there are a lot of guys on our design team, like Damien Shubert, who is our Lead System Designer, he is like the master of raids. He knows all the raids, he’s been through every single one of them, he’s part of a raiding guild.
Daniel Erickson: Our Associate Game Designer, as well, James’ right hand, is also the guy who’s like all the end-game stuff, all the raids, super excited about it.
James and I both tend to be people who look at it, and dabble at it, and go “Oh, cool, hey there’s a new dungeon!” and then after that, it’s like, “Well, what can I see that’s totally new?”
But we definitely want to accommodate all of those different sorts of players.
You know what? What may be different about the stories in TOR is this…. I think they are aiming to really provoke emotion in these stories to steer your decisions in this game. Wouldn't surprise me if they convinced the docs to hire a psychologist, since they hinted at a certain type of “research, and thought study” going into this game well before we heard it was TOR. I thought that was strange when I heard it. What if there were at least a few parts of your story arc where you go "WTF?" And you may even feel sadness, happiness, anger, fear, humor in an MMO story. When is the last time you felt that type of emotion in an MMO? Or any game for that mater? Was it as good as it could have been? Perhaps playing a BioWare game? Imagine the possibilities. It’ll be interesting to see if they pull this off. If you get pas the mechanical aspects of game grinding and pew pewing you may actually feel immersed. That’s the problem with gamers these days, they never take enough time to slow down and actually enjoy a game and its plot the way it was meant to be enjoyed, unless you are forced, or steered. BioWare will force you to slow down by making decisions in the game mater because they can actually effect you long term.
you still don't get it do you the fun thing about gaming is winning
people dont want storys or any of that bs people want to sit down and play a hard game and win that is why tons of people played swg it was hard and when you won you got some of the greatest rewards ever the biggest being the reward for you to become a jedi knight
people want pvp and lots of it that is why aoc failed as rather then go and be a pvp game now they are letting the carebears run that game into the ground
bioware owes all of us a good pre-cu game and tor should be that game and i along with 250k of my friends demand that bioware give us that game
we took down $OE do you really think ea and bioware would stand a chance and after this whole left 4 dead 2 thing believe me ea doesn't have all that long
NO, you are the one that doesn't get it. I've been role playing probably since you were still in diapers from the sounds of it, and I've played both in real life, in online chat games (White Wolf ran an online chat where you created characters and played like you would in real life but with people from around the world), and in online games like EQ2.
No, people play because of the story. They want to be involved in a grand story. They want to feel like they matter. They want to be Frodo and Sam and Gandalf, they want to be Luke and Leia and Han, they want to be the hero's of Everquest, they want the story, child. The story is why all of us play these games.
PvP is why people like you play these games, but you are alot rarer than you think. Most people don't just want to beat the crap out of other players. It is NOT carebear, its the truth and you need to stop insulting people if you want to be taken seriously.
As for SOE, you are so full of crap, it isn't even funny. Where in your imagination did you get up with the idiotic idea than anyone took SOE down? From the looks of it, they're still doing just fine. EQ2 is considered by most to be one of the best games on the market. Which you'd know if you bothered to try it instead of behaving like you are.
You really need to grow up.
Yep, and 3 million people are already playing free realms. Yeah it's game for kids and families who game together, and they said that before the game even launched. I imagine The Agency and DCO will do fairly well also. The people who play SWG now reguardless of the card game, like it. That is most likely good enough for SOE.
And yeah, that guy just likes to argue, I refuse to waste anymore time on him because he's changing few minds here. At this point you are either interested in TOR, or you aren't. I'm sure most of the people complaing about nonsesne things will play it anyways within the first year. If not, no one will miss them.
You know what? What may be different about the stories in TOR is this…. I think they are aiming to really provoke emotion in these stories to steer your decisions in this game. Wouldn't surprise me if they convinced the docs to hire a psychologist, since they hinted at a certain type of “research, and thought study” going into this game well before we heard it was TOR. I thought that was strange when I heard it. What if there were at least a few parts of your story arc where you go "WTF?" And you may even feel sadness, happiness, anger, fear, humor in an MMO story. When is the last time you felt that type of emotion in an MMO? Or any game for that mater? Was it as good as it could have been? Perhaps playing a BioWare game? Imagine the possibilities. It’ll be interesting to see if they pull this off. If you get pas the mechanical aspects of game grinding and pew pewing you may actually feel immersed. That’s the problem with gamers these days, they never take enough time to slow down and actually enjoy a game and its plot the way it was meant to be enjoyed, unless you are forced, or steered. BioWare will force you to slow down by making decisions in the game mater because they can actually effect you long term.
you still don't get it do you the fun thing about gaming is winning
people dont want storys or any of that bs people want to sit down and play a hard game and win that is why tons of people played swg it was hard and when you won you got some of the greatest rewards ever the biggest being the reward for you to become a jedi knight
people want pvp and lots of it that is why aoc failed as rather then go and be a pvp game now they are letting the carebears run that game into the ground
bioware owes all of us a good pre-cu game and tor should be that game and i along with 250k of my friends demand that bioware give us that game
we took down $OE do you really think ea and bioware would stand a chance and after this whole left 4 dead 2 thing believe me ea doesn't have all that long
NO, you are the one that doesn't get it. I've been role playing probably since you were still in diapers from the sounds of it, and I've played both in real life, in online chat games (White Wolf ran an online chat where you created characters and played like you would in real life but with people from around the world), and in online games like EQ2.
No, people play because of the story. They want to be involved in a grand story. They want to feel like they matter. They want to be Frodo and Sam and Gandalf, they want to be Luke and Leia and Han, they want to be the hero's of Everquest, they want the story, child. The story is why all of us play these games.
PvP is why people like you play these games, but you are alot rarer than you think. Most people don't just want to beat the crap out of other players. It is NOT carebear, its the truth and you need to stop insulting people if you want to be taken seriously.
As for SOE, you are so full of crap, it isn't even funny. Where in your imagination did you get up with the idiotic idea than anyone took SOE down? From the looks of it, they're still doing just fine. EQ2 is considered by most to be one of the best games on the market. Which you'd know if you bothered to try it instead of behaving like you are.
You really need to grow up.
You know the thing is, I am not entirely sure about this. I am roleplayer for 25 years, in the german "D&D" The Dark Eye. I loved story driven CRPGs like Ultima a lot. So yeah, I love RP and I love story.
STILL: going into a MMO is a bit a different matter. I have played EQ2 and SWG for years it they were quite devoid of story. Well, outside of the very basic figleaf of a story. And I was contend. Sure, you can tell me, lets bring it to the next step. And I did enjoy those book quests in LOTRO with really deep, moving stories a lot. BUT: They were only a relatively small part in the overall gameplay.
What you read seldom here is, people admitting they also enjoy "the grind". Or "the hunt" as I call it. Just meet some guys and go out in some forest, some hunted manor, some forgotten mine and kill stuff and fight your way through. No story needed. That is somethng I find soothing after a hard days work, when I just don't have the concentration for an epic, Shakespearean story. And thats my No.1 questionmark here. Will a MMO not be overburdened with so much emphasis on some heroic story, a game which claims to be always heroic and never grindy? Do I want that? Will I enjoy that? I am not sure, really. Maybe. But so far I always have enjoyed my MMOs versatile and not focussed on one narrow idea, no matter how nice the idea was. We havent seen a single MMO succesful which was narrowed on one idea. Now it may be, as I hope, just PR blah blah that they tell so much about story.
Now sure, you can place 50% open world and say "here is where people CAN group". Or say "your Jedi friend can aid you in your Smuggler story". But WILL people do that? How will you make people do that? What mechanics encourage grouping and community building. Because honestly I do not think people join you just out of kindness. I just have this nagging fear I am going to feel VERY alone in this game after a brief time of fun.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
You know what? What may be different about the stories in TOR is this…. I think they are aiming to really provoke emotion in these stories to steer your decisions in this game. Wouldn't surprise me if they convinced the docs to hire a psychologist, since they hinted at a certain type of “research, and thought study” going into this game well before we heard it was TOR. I thought that was strange when I heard it. What if there were at least a few parts of your story arc where you go "WTF?" And you may even feel sadness, happiness, anger, fear, humor in an MMO story. When is the last time you felt that type of emotion in an MMO? Or any game for that mater? Was it as good as it could have been? Perhaps playing a BioWare game? Imagine the possibilities. It’ll be interesting to see if they pull this off. If you get pas the mechanical aspects of game grinding and pew pewing you may actually feel immersed. That’s the problem with gamers these days, they never take enough time to slow down and actually enjoy a game and its plot the way it was meant to be enjoyed, unless you are forced, or steered. BioWare will force you to slow down by making decisions in the game mater because they can actually effect you long term.
That last paragraph was so true. A lot of players want instant gratification. They have this mindest of just beating the game and moving on without actually experiencing the fun of the game intself. I like reading quests and role playing what the quests provide for me. I usually only a get an hour or so every day and when I do I like to savor the moment.If enjoying stories and role playing isn't for the you then you have no business playing an MMORPG.
You know what? What may be different about the stories in TOR is this…. I think they are aiming to really provoke emotion in these stories to steer your decisions in this game. Wouldn't surprise me if they convinced the docs to hire a psychologist, since they hinted at a certain type of “research, and thought study” going into this game well before we heard it was TOR. I thought that was strange when I heard it. What if there were at least a few parts of your story arc where you go "WTF?" And you may even feel sadness, happiness, anger, fear, humor in an MMO story. When is the last time you felt that type of emotion in an MMO? Or any game for that mater? Was it as good as it could have been? Perhaps playing a BioWare game? Imagine the possibilities. It’ll be interesting to see if they pull this off. If you get pas the mechanical aspects of game grinding and pew pewing you may actually feel immersed. That’s the problem with gamers these days, they never take enough time to slow down and actually enjoy a game and its plot the way it was meant to be enjoyed, unless you are forced, or steered. BioWare will force you to slow down by making decisions in the game mater because they can actually effect you long term.
you still don't get it do you the fun thing about gaming is winning
people dont want storys or any of that bs people want to sit down and play a hard game and win that is why tons of people played swg it was hard and when you won you got some of the greatest rewards ever the biggest being the reward for you to become a jedi knight
people want pvp and lots of it that is why aoc failed as rather then go and be a pvp game now they are letting the carebears run that game into the ground
bioware owes all of us a good pre-cu game and tor should be that game and i along with 250k of my friends demand that bioware give us that game
we took down $OE do you really think ea and bioware would stand a chance and after this whole left 4 dead 2 thing believe me ea doesn't have all that long
Is there a way to nominate a post for most delusional of the year?
And I've said it before, if these game mechanics keep players like this away, then count me in.
You know the thing is, I am not entirely sure about this. I am roleplayer for 25 years, in the german "D&D" The Dark Eye. I loved story driven CRPGs like Ultima a lot. So yeah, I love RP and I love story. STILL: going into a MMO is a bit a different matter. I have played EQ2 and SWG for years it they were quite devoid of story. Well, outside of the very basic figleaf of a story. And I was contend. Sure, you can tell me, lets bring it to the next step. And I did enjoy those book quests in LOTRO with really deep, moving stories a lot. BUT: They were only a relatively small part in the overall gameplay. What you read seldom here is, people admitting they also enjoy "the grind". Or "the hunt" as I call it. Just meet some guys and go out in some forest, some hunted manor, some forgotten mine and kill stuff and fight your way through. No story needed. That is somethng I find soothing after a hard days work, when I just don't have the concentration for an epic, Shakespearean story. And thats my No.1 questionmark here. Will a MMO not be overburdened with so much emphasis on some heroic story, a game which claims to be always heroic and never grindy? Do I want that? Will I enjoy that? I am not sure, really. Maybe. But so far I always have enjoyed my MMOs versatile and not focussed on one narrow idea, no matter how nice the idea was. We havent seen a single MMO succesful which was narrowed on one idea. Now it may be, as I hope, just PR blah blah that they tell so much about story. Now sure, you can place 50% open world and say "here is where people CAN group". Or say "your Jedi friend can aid you in your Smuggler story". But WILL people do that? How will you make people do that? What mechanics encourage grouping and community building. Because honestly I do not think people join you just out of kindness. I just have this nagging fear I am going to feel VERY alone in this game after a brief time of fun.
Really you don't believe people group out of kindness? I feel very sad for you you must not be in a very good guild. I personally group out kindness frequently. I frequently help other groups in EQ2 that need a update not because they are paying me, or even because I'll get some loot or personal gain. I would consider it kindness. last night on the Befallen server there was a guild forming a pickup raid not for their own profit, but to get people through parts of VP for their epics. I would never join a guild made of players that ONLY ever join in a raid or group if it suits their own needs.
Your still skirting the fact that in many MMO's (eq2 etc) one can solo all the way to the end, but if one does so they will miss out on some of the best parts. I've not seen anything posted by Bioware say players can solo everything. So in this case SW:TOR is not really any different then many other MMO's out.
In the end the point your missing is Star Wars is all about the STORY. Jedi vs Sith, etc etc its the story that brings people to the IP not just mindless grinding or PvP. If you don't like story then really any game with repetative grinding and some PvP will fit the bill you have outlined in this thread. Why not just stay with EQ2 it has everything you find important minus that icky story stuff you don't seeem to like.
Background, atmosphere, Immersion, Lore, Story they are all linked to a certain extent. SW:TOR as I see it is not aiming to be a Strategic MMO, but a RPG MMO (RPG's being what Bioware does best) How do you get the imersion of playing a Jedi or Smuggler etc in the SW universe without story? Do you really want another MMO were you just run up to NPC with big glowing question mark over there head click on them, don't read script run out and kill 10 more rats? If so your in luck as plenty of them seem to already be out to serve your game playing needs.
you still don't get it do you the fun thing about gaming is winning people dont want storys or any of that bs people want to sit down and play a hard game and win that is why tons of people played swg it was hard and when you won you got some of the greatest rewards ever the biggest being the reward for you to become a jedi knight people want pvp and lots of it that is why aoc failed as rather then go and be a pvp game now they are letting the carebears run that game into the ground bioware owes all of us a good pre-cu game and tor should be that game and i along with 250k of my friends demand that bioware give us that game we took down $OE do you really think ea and bioware would stand a chance and after this whole left 4 dead 2 thing believe me ea doesn't have all that long
Is there a way to nominate a post for most delusional of the year?
And I've said it before, if these game mechanics keep players like this away, then count me in.
I think the Poster was being sarcastic, and that people are simply missing the sarcasm in his post.
#1) 250K being a very small number of people in terms of all MMO gamers currently out there, but also being the number most delusional SWG precu/nge fans/vets think SWG would still have in subscribers today if they hadn't changed. While Bioware might be ok with 250K subs i think they are aiming to break out of the 250K once upon a time, SWG niche crowd. (I hear theres some kinda SWG precu emulator out for that market these days anyway)
#2) The demand that Bioware a company that had nothing to do with SWG somehow "owes" the players a SWG PRE-CU game being another jab at many of the posters here.
#3) and of course lastly the Whole "We took down $OE" comedy that many SWG vets somehow still believe. Just as they believed SWG would close last year, and the year before that, and next month etc etc. over their outrage as they have posted again and again. (Comedy gold really)
I.) Bioware, EA and LucasArts always emphasize "story". In fact we have not heard of a single gameplay sphere any detail other than that. There is that suspicious fact we hear NO other "usually expected" detail whatsoever, now for a long time. Which is no argument in itself, yes, just a hint. The central point here is: they always emphasized, that ALL of SWTOR is story driven. ALL is heroic and there is NO usual grind, no "un-heroic" battle like "kill 20 rats". Point 1. The game is still very much in development and it is very common for companies to keep some gameplay elements secret until closer to release. Just because the heroic story is what they are focusing on right now does not mean that it is the entire focus. They have already mentioned that the game will have all the usual trimmings of an MMORPG, so I don't really see where you are getting the idea that this will be so different. We may not have the details on things like the combat system yet, but from what I read from those who tested it at E3, it will be very fun and engaging.
II.) They have hinted every class has its planet. With the map circling around we have 16 planets, that makes 8 class bound planet. So 50% granted solo game. Or at best intra-class co-op. Tho why should you when its "your class story". Not waterproof, but a measure of balance. In other games, every race has their own starting cities and areas. This does not mean that these areas are closed off to other races/classes or that there will be nothing of value to others in those areas. I'm sure there will be something to do on every planet for every class. I seriously doubt that Bioware has the intention of segregating everyone into their own planets entirely based off class.
III.) We know we have combat companions, and we know Bioware said, the game can be entirely soloed. Fact! Now what is crystal clear to me: the easier quests are, the more soloable, the less grouping happens. Grouping is what happens when people need to group. Now sure the rise of soloing can be seen. But the fact is, most people who can solo will solo. With NPC companion. Now the life-force of any MMO is it's community. Communites form through grouping for a large part. By shared experiences. But from my POV, when everything CAN be soloed, most WILL solo it. Now if you are busy, busy with your story, why share it, when a NPC does it? Communities are formed by and large through the "hunting party experience", when a team overcomes an obstacle a single person could not. The rise of solo-friendlyness has so far seriously damaged the community spirit in MMOs. I have interpreted their remarks as meaning that every player can get through their single-player story arc solo if they so choose. This does not mean that everything in the game can be accomplished solo. They have already mentioned that dungeons/raids will be a part of this game and obviously this content will not be soloable. Personally I am extremely happy that we will be able to get through our personal story arcs without groups. That just means that we can play the game on our own time and enjoy the content at a pace that works for every type of gamer. Obviously not everyone has time to adhere to crazy raid schedules or find groups every time they want to play. Games that are designed to force people into grouping are flawed and will always remain niche. The OPTION to group will always be there and groups will no doubt be essential for the epic raid content. This seems very similar to other MMOs to me...
IV.) Now no matter how good your stories are, I just dont see it that a decend number of players stays in a MMO for more than 3-4 months. I just do not see it. Taking the not small playtime per day of the average MMO gamer, I am sure most will be through the story 2 times by then at LEAST. I am sorry if I have to burst your bubble, but a game merely driven by story wont hold people alone a long time. 6 months is the max. time. Based on my understanding, the stories in the game will function to remove the 'grind' from the game. This only means that we won't have to perform mindlessly repetitive tasks for months to get from 1 - max level. Once you get to the end game, as Bioware has already stated, the game will have all the same features of any other MMORPG. I take this to mean that if you want to go kill the same mobs 1000000000 times, you can. If you want to raid, you can. If you want to do a dungeon or repeatable quest that you have already done 100 times, go for it. Nothing they have released thus far has indicated that this will not be the case.
V.) The ONLY thing proven to keep gamers a longer time, is repetitive tasks, like it or not. Just going out hunting stuff. (Not to speak of the fact that many feel "mindless grinding" as something relaxing, actually!) You just would have to create 100+ planets with story to equal the play-time amount a MMO like WOW or EQ2 or GW can muster by grind. Grind, meaning "not heroic, simple, repetitive task", which is not fitting into the category of "heroic story". You know, the usual type of MMO quests. All the trimmings of other MMORPGS = not heroic, simple, repetitive tasks that you can do over and over and over again (should you choose).
So, challange my analysis. I have and I believe your fears are not justified. Bioware is one of the best gaming companies in existence and if there is one thing you can be sure of, it is that they do their homework. Every game this company makes is polished and of great quality. They have no doubt spent countless hours thinking about their game and the MMORPG genre as a whole. They would not be so stupid as to jump into a new genre without fully understanding the necessary components inherent in it and planning accordingly. The company is full of people who are gamers themselves and they understand what makes a game great. Now before I write a novel replying to your post, I will close by saying this: Have faith! Bioware will not let you down.
very good post (up until the last bit there highlighted). A big Bioware fan are we? We have only been fed bits and pieces of the full game. It is too soon to freak out one way or the other. I doubt that most of the game is even coded yet. Wait till open beta then rant as much as you want. * (edit : This part and the rest of the post meant for OP not Anubisan)
You can start writing your rant early and have a very polished and internet ready tirade by launch... Or you can just take it easy and like the rest of us wait for more info to be released till we have a nearly complete picture of the entire game. Which would include the skill system, quest system, leveling, pvp, raiding, crafting, pve, and the combat mechanics videos, as well as interviews and gamplay write-ups along with impressions from testers and reviewers alike.
I would suggest at that point getting into OB even if you have to pay 5$ at EB/Gamestop for a pre-order. Then you can try it for yourself then you can have 1st hand info on how things did or didn't work. Then at least you can have something substantial to base your feelings and opinions on.
To sum up my opinion : Way Too Early for this thread topic.
Originally posted by stillkillin ...that is why tons of people played swg it was hard and when you won you got some of the greatest rewards ever the biggest being the reward for you to become a jedi knight
Hard? Which part was hard? Copying macros off the forums so you could AFK dance, or throwing 'nades at lairs for combat XP?
You know what the hardest thing about pre-CU SWG was for me? Finding a good reason to keep paying my subscription fee.
Originally posted by stillkillin ...that is why tons of people played swg it was hard and when you won you got some of the greatest rewards ever the biggest being the reward for you to become a jedi knight
Hard? Which part was hard? Copying macros off the forums so you could AFK dance, or throwing 'nades at lairs for combat XP?
You know what the hardest thing about pre-CU SWG was for me? Finding a good reason to keep paying my subscription fee.
Lol, I just made a macro to target next enemy every second followed by a pistol skill, repeat. I leveled up behing the starport in mos eisley to Master Pistoleer in one afk night... wasn't hard by any means.
Originally posted by stillkillin ...that is why tons of people played swg it was hard and when you won you got some of the greatest rewards ever the biggest being the reward for you to become a jedi knight
Hard? Which part was hard? Copying macros off the forums so you could AFK dance, or throwing 'nades at lairs for combat XP?
You know what the hardest thing about pre-CU SWG was for me? Finding a good reason to keep paying my subscription fee.
SWG wasn't about leveling / skilling up, that was just a means of progression. More MMOs should be about the world instead of about winning / finishing - which is the opposite of what an MMO should be.
______________________ Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
Originally posted by demalus More MMOs should be about the world instead of about winning / finishing - which is the opposite of what an MMO should be.
First of all, what does that even mean?
Second, who are you to lecture us about "what an MMO should be" and why should I give a damn?
Comments
I want a story!!
I'm sick of the current mmo system where you run into a camp and go round filling your log with whatever has an exclamation mark floating over their heads then pretty much alt-tabbing to go find co-ords for whatever you need to collect.
A story driven mmo is like a giant step forward. Now you have to actually have a conversation with npcs and probably use persuasion/lie type skill traits to initiate a quest. This type of gameplay promotes exploration and you'll find yourself exploring every little nook and cranny.
If you've ever played bioware games their quest system was a far cry from kill ten rats.
So, in the OP's opinion, Bioware should scrap all the story, and add in about 500,000 "go to point A, kill 100 mob B's" quests? Oh, I almost forgot! Also, make it so you can't solo anything either?
I don't understand why everyone likes to pretend they've said nothing about this game...
@OP:
I don't think BioWare is trying to deceive anyone. I do however think that the big players ignore why MMOs were once immersive. People seem to think that "something new" means devolving into a single player game. Stories need to be told in a different way in MMOs than in single player games. The only way you could do a single player story in an MMO is to actually craft thousands, maybe millions of stories. That is simply not possible. They chose 8. No, your "choices" won't matter that much. They will just make you evil or good. BioWare is great at telling stories, but not so great at making stories (in my opinion). KOTOR (which I loved) was pretty much the same as the Star Wars movies with different character names. This is the NGE come to fruition. You will be playing Luke Skywalker and Darth Maul, not your own character.
Now, I think this game will be an AWESOME single player game (because I love BioWare's games), but I don't feel they really converted it to an MMO. I think they just made it so people can experience the single player game in a more connected way. It is more like evolving community forums rather than MMORPGs.
Also, we need to stop thinking in terms of "forced solo" or "forced grouping". Those are simply lame mechanics. If you are thinking in terms like that, well, there is probably nothing special anyways. I think we should all be thinking in terms of experiences - what YOU the character DO in the game in the context of the WORLD provided. If there's something tough, its logical that you would need many players to do it - but the players should figure that out. MMOs shouldn't be meta-games or mini-games....otherwise there is no reason for the MMO portion....just make it a regular multiplayer game (nothing wrong with that). I feel like immersion and persistance has been shafted, and will be shafted in this game. I hope BioWare took into consideration what an MMO entails. Will a power gamer who finishes the game in 2 weeks spoil it for everyone else? Can there even be such a thing as plot twists?
I understand that some naysayers simply troll, but I think there is genuinely a great concern that supposed fans ignore. I don't think this post was made with mal-intent, so our discussions should be about the game instead of speculated poster factions (i.e. You're either a troll or a fanboy....fight to the death!). What's the point of forums if not to post? One thing we can all agree on (probably) is that TOR is definitely the next big thing (whether it be actual playerbase or most talked about).
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
Gonna start out with the basics:
1. 8 classes total, thats 8 starting planets. Those are either just the starting zones or 2 of each of the factions progress into larger level areas. The nice thing about planets versus continents is that their is more land mass to play with, multiple continents per planet. Each starting planet could be a complete 1-Max level grind.
2. Most MMOs support that they have something special over all other MMOs, War said it would have the best PvP system thus they focused all their effort with pvp. Tor will be based on Storyline, meaning the action and reaction with NPCs will be promoted.
3. Its not surprising they havnt announced any thing but storyline, thats the only thing other games wont directly steal out right and put in their game. WoW is reknown for taking good things other MMOs did but failed at the rest and put them in their game with more polish but not as much creativity.
lol, waaaaaay too early to be saying anything. From what it sounds like...you think that each class will have a story, finish it, and the games over. They have stated it will have pvp, guilds, crafting, raiding, etc.. They straight up said they want to compete with WoW and they feel they can. If that's the case, you can expect them to come up with things to keep players around. This won't be KOTOR 3, this will be something much more.
I believe all the other stuff will be in there I just believe you don't have to do all the other stuff to get to max level. I think it is mostly you can get to max level by your story. I also think you can grind mobs to get to max level and ignore the story completley if you want to. Just my opinion.
I think it is more of You don't have to grind. Than there is no grind in the game. If you wish to just play story and not grind you can play to max level than roll an alt and have that char entire story to go through, and so on. Or you can get to max levle with your char and grind rep if it is there. Craft, raid instances for best loot.
I don't think there is 2 to 3 years before it comes out. The develpoers say the game is fully playable right now. IN a couple interviews i have seen.
you still don't get it do you the fun thing about gaming is winning
people dont want storys or any of that bs people want to sit down and play a hard game and win that is why tons of people played swg it was hard and when you won you got some of the greatest rewards ever the biggest being the reward for you to become a jedi knight
people want pvp and lots of it that is why aoc failed as rather then go and be a pvp game now they are letting the carebears run that game into the ground
bioware owes all of us a good pre-cu game and tor should be that game and i along with 250k of my friends demand that bioware give us that game
we took down $OE do you really think ea and bioware would stand a chance and after this whole left 4 dead 2 thing believe me ea doesn't have all that long
NO, you are the one that doesn't get it. I've been role playing probably since you were still in diapers from the sounds of it, and I've played both in real life, in online chat games (White Wolf ran an online chat where you created characters and played like you would in real life but with people from around the world), and in online games like EQ2.
No, people play because of the story. They want to be involved in a grand story. They want to feel like they matter. They want to be Frodo and Sam and Gandalf, they want to be Luke and Leia and Han, they want to be the hero's of Everquest, they want the story, child. The story is why all of us play these games.
PvP is why people like you play these games, but you are alot rarer than you think. Most people don't just want to beat the crap out of other players. It is NOT carebear, its the truth and you need to stop insulting people if you want to be taken seriously.
As for SOE, you are so full of crap, it isn't even funny. Where in your imagination did you get up with the idiotic idea than anyone took SOE down? From the looks of it, they're still doing just fine. EQ2 is considered by most to be one of the best games on the market. Which you'd know if you bothered to try it instead of behaving like you are.
You really need to grow up.
I don't think there is 2 to 3 years before it comes out. The develpoers say the game is fully playable right now. IN a couple interviews i have seen.
Yeah, it's pretty much fully developed right now, they are just waiting with the launch to build up the hype about it.
I also believe that most players will just opt to solo through the game. For the most part MMORPG players do not care about the community as a whole nearly as much as individual profit. It has been that way since UO and EQ, because playing video games is an inherintly selfish act if you think about it. There are still plenty of gamers out there, many that played the pen and paper D&D with thier friends, that understand there is more to a multiplayer video game than item upgrades. I dont believe those people are going to get their moneys worth out of SOtOR just from what i've heard so far. They may really like the story, but if you aren't going to interact with other players, and other players are very reluctant to interact with you, then you might as well just play Mass Effect or KotOR. I am not going to pay a monthly fee to to play a single player game. There are enough really good ones out right now that are free once you buy the retail box.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I Lol evertime i see someone say they won't pay a monty fee for a single player game when talking about tor. It is not a single player game and will not be one. The only difference solo play adds to an mmo is that finding the others that love to group takes a little more time because there are so many more people playing it now than if it was group forced like ffxi.
Every interview says it has everything you would expect from an mmo raids,crafting, AH, and so on. Those things are expected so why talk about them.
that would be like making a new car that doesn't run on gas and people saying but no where do they say you can drive it on the road. All they talk about is that it does not need gas to run.
I know bad analagy but best I could come up with at the moment.
I read about this far. The main reason I read this far is because reading your sentences is like having a puzzle. I have to fill in words in spots there should be words. I have to assume sometimes that you meant to put a word here or spell this word correctly. Spelling and grammar is important because it helps the people you are talking to understand exactly what you mean. If you had everything spelled correctly in this I would have read more. I don't like to read things where I have to try to deduce what you are "trying" to tell me. Sorry...the internet is not an excuse for the retardation of the English language or an excuse to bypass all the rules of grammar. Next time you want to make a serious post please put some time and effort into spelling things correctly and putting in words where they should be.
Right back at ya. Why don't you try picking a font color that doesn't blind nearly half the people trying to read it. Oh, and welcome to the internet. There is a rumor going around that there are non native english speakers on it that probably have a greater command of second and third languages than you do of common decency and tact.
BOOM!! HEADSHOT!!
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I Lol evertime i see someone say they won't pay a monty fee for a single player game when talking about tor. It is not a single player game and will not be one. The only difference solo play adds to an mmo is that finding the others that love to group takes a little more time because there are so many more people playing it now than if it was group forced like ffxi.
Every interview says it has everything you would expect from an mmo raids,crafting, AH, and so on. Those things are expected so why talk about them.
that would be like making a new car that doesn't run on gas and people saying but no where do they say you can drive it on the road. All they talk about is that it does not need gas to run.
I know bad analagy but best I could come up with at the moment.
The fact that it can be soloed, means that it will be heavily soloed by a large majority of players. Do you not know what kind of players the majority of MMORPG players are?
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Elikal,
Here is something from another threat here that I thought might put some of your fears to rest:
The MMO Gamer: So then, what happens after the main storyline has ended for those other people you mentioned, who may not even be interested in the story in the first place?
I assume you don’t just tell them, “Well, that’s it! Reroll a Smuggler, play the game again, get the new story!”
Daniel Erickson: Absolutely not. One of the things that we’ve always talked about, because the end-game is incredibly important to a lot of MMO players, if that’s your game, great. That’s going to be there waiting for you.
If you want to do raids, if you want to do the whole end-game stuff, if that’s what you’re excited about, great.
But there’s also a ton of other content waiting for you, if that’s not what your game is about.
James Ohlen: With the end-game we can’t get into too much detail. We can say that the title of this IP is Star Wars. There’s lots of opportunity for conflict, conflict that doesn’t end.
We are going to have the stuff that allows you to continue to play the game. But, if you’re a player like myself, and I think Daniel here is similar, I’m the kind of guy who gets to the end level, and then I’m either going to play a new character, or I’m going to wait for the expansion to come out.
When I play most MMOs, like World of Warcraft, I get to the highest level and then I stop until the next expansion comes out, because I just don’t like doing the end-game activities.
However, there are a lot of guys on our design team, like Damien Shubert, who is our Lead System Designer, he is like the master of raids. He knows all the raids, he’s been through every single one of them, he’s part of a raiding guild.
Daniel Erickson: Our Associate Game Designer, as well, James’ right hand, is also the guy who’s like all the end-game stuff, all the raids, super excited about it.
James and I both tend to be people who look at it, and dabble at it, and go “Oh, cool, hey there’s a new dungeon!” and then after that, it’s like, “Well, what can I see that’s totally new?”
But we definitely want to accommodate all of those different sorts of players.
you still don't get it do you the fun thing about gaming is winning
people dont want storys or any of that bs people want to sit down and play a hard game and win that is why tons of people played swg it was hard and when you won you got some of the greatest rewards ever the biggest being the reward for you to become a jedi knight
people want pvp and lots of it that is why aoc failed as rather then go and be a pvp game now they are letting the carebears run that game into the ground
bioware owes all of us a good pre-cu game and tor should be that game and i along with 250k of my friends demand that bioware give us that game
we took down $OE do you really think ea and bioware would stand a chance and after this whole left 4 dead 2 thing believe me ea doesn't have all that long
NO, you are the one that doesn't get it. I've been role playing probably since you were still in diapers from the sounds of it, and I've played both in real life, in online chat games (White Wolf ran an online chat where you created characters and played like you would in real life but with people from around the world), and in online games like EQ2.
No, people play because of the story. They want to be involved in a grand story. They want to feel like they matter. They want to be Frodo and Sam and Gandalf, they want to be Luke and Leia and Han, they want to be the hero's of Everquest, they want the story, child. The story is why all of us play these games.
PvP is why people like you play these games, but you are alot rarer than you think. Most people don't just want to beat the crap out of other players. It is NOT carebear, its the truth and you need to stop insulting people if you want to be taken seriously.
As for SOE, you are so full of crap, it isn't even funny. Where in your imagination did you get up with the idiotic idea than anyone took SOE down? From the looks of it, they're still doing just fine. EQ2 is considered by most to be one of the best games on the market. Which you'd know if you bothered to try it instead of behaving like you are.
You really need to grow up.
Yep, and 3 million people are already playing free realms. Yeah it's game for kids and families who game together, and they said that before the game even launched. I imagine The Agency and DCO will do fairly well also. The people who play SWG now reguardless of the card game, like it. That is most likely good enough for SOE.
And yeah, that guy just likes to argue, I refuse to waste anymore time on him because he's changing few minds here. At this point you are either interested in TOR, or you aren't. I'm sure most of the people complaing about nonsesne things will play it anyways within the first year. If not, no one will miss them.
you still don't get it do you the fun thing about gaming is winning
people dont want storys or any of that bs people want to sit down and play a hard game and win that is why tons of people played swg it was hard and when you won you got some of the greatest rewards ever the biggest being the reward for you to become a jedi knight
people want pvp and lots of it that is why aoc failed as rather then go and be a pvp game now they are letting the carebears run that game into the ground
bioware owes all of us a good pre-cu game and tor should be that game and i along with 250k of my friends demand that bioware give us that game
we took down $OE do you really think ea and bioware would stand a chance and after this whole left 4 dead 2 thing believe me ea doesn't have all that long
NO, you are the one that doesn't get it. I've been role playing probably since you were still in diapers from the sounds of it, and I've played both in real life, in online chat games (White Wolf ran an online chat where you created characters and played like you would in real life but with people from around the world), and in online games like EQ2.
No, people play because of the story. They want to be involved in a grand story. They want to feel like they matter. They want to be Frodo and Sam and Gandalf, they want to be Luke and Leia and Han, they want to be the hero's of Everquest, they want the story, child. The story is why all of us play these games.
PvP is why people like you play these games, but you are alot rarer than you think. Most people don't just want to beat the crap out of other players. It is NOT carebear, its the truth and you need to stop insulting people if you want to be taken seriously.
As for SOE, you are so full of crap, it isn't even funny. Where in your imagination did you get up with the idiotic idea than anyone took SOE down? From the looks of it, they're still doing just fine. EQ2 is considered by most to be one of the best games on the market. Which you'd know if you bothered to try it instead of behaving like you are.
You really need to grow up.
You know the thing is, I am not entirely sure about this. I am roleplayer for 25 years, in the german "D&D" The Dark Eye. I loved story driven CRPGs like Ultima a lot. So yeah, I love RP and I love story.
STILL: going into a MMO is a bit a different matter. I have played EQ2 and SWG for years it they were quite devoid of story. Well, outside of the very basic figleaf of a story. And I was contend. Sure, you can tell me, lets bring it to the next step. And I did enjoy those book quests in LOTRO with really deep, moving stories a lot. BUT: They were only a relatively small part in the overall gameplay.
What you read seldom here is, people admitting they also enjoy "the grind". Or "the hunt" as I call it. Just meet some guys and go out in some forest, some hunted manor, some forgotten mine and kill stuff and fight your way through. No story needed. That is somethng I find soothing after a hard days work, when I just don't have the concentration for an epic, Shakespearean story. And thats my No.1 questionmark here. Will a MMO not be overburdened with so much emphasis on some heroic story, a game which claims to be always heroic and never grindy? Do I want that? Will I enjoy that? I am not sure, really. Maybe. But so far I always have enjoyed my MMOs versatile and not focussed on one narrow idea, no matter how nice the idea was. We havent seen a single MMO succesful which was narrowed on one idea. Now it may be, as I hope, just PR blah blah that they tell so much about story.
Now sure, you can place 50% open world and say "here is where people CAN group". Or say "your Jedi friend can aid you in your Smuggler story". But WILL people do that? How will you make people do that? What mechanics encourage grouping and community building. Because honestly I do not think people join you just out of kindness. I just have this nagging fear I am going to feel VERY alone in this game after a brief time of fun.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
That last paragraph was so true. A lot of players want instant gratification. They have this mindest of just beating the game and moving on without actually experiencing the fun of the game intself. I like reading quests and role playing what the quests provide for me. I usually only a get an hour or so every day and when I do I like to savor the moment.If enjoying stories and role playing isn't for the you then you have no business playing an MMORPG.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
you still don't get it do you the fun thing about gaming is winning
people dont want storys or any of that bs people want to sit down and play a hard game and win that is why tons of people played swg it was hard and when you won you got some of the greatest rewards ever the biggest being the reward for you to become a jedi knight
people want pvp and lots of it that is why aoc failed as rather then go and be a pvp game now they are letting the carebears run that game into the ground
bioware owes all of us a good pre-cu game and tor should be that game and i along with 250k of my friends demand that bioware give us that game
we took down $OE do you really think ea and bioware would stand a chance and after this whole left 4 dead 2 thing believe me ea doesn't have all that long
Is there a way to nominate a post for most delusional of the year?
And I've said it before, if these game mechanics keep players like this away, then count me in.
Really you don't believe people group out of kindness? I feel very sad for you you must not be in a very good guild. I personally group out kindness frequently. I frequently help other groups in EQ2 that need a update not because they are paying me, or even because I'll get some loot or personal gain. I would consider it kindness. last night on the Befallen server there was a guild forming a pickup raid not for their own profit, but to get people through parts of VP for their epics. I would never join a guild made of players that ONLY ever join in a raid or group if it suits their own needs.
Your still skirting the fact that in many MMO's (eq2 etc) one can solo all the way to the end, but if one does so they will miss out on some of the best parts. I've not seen anything posted by Bioware say players can solo everything. So in this case SW:TOR is not really any different then many other MMO's out.
In the end the point your missing is Star Wars is all about the STORY. Jedi vs Sith, etc etc its the story that brings people to the IP not just mindless grinding or PvP. If you don't like story then really any game with repetative grinding and some PvP will fit the bill you have outlined in this thread. Why not just stay with EQ2 it has everything you find important minus that icky story stuff you don't seeem to like.
Background, atmosphere, Immersion, Lore, Story they are all linked to a certain extent. SW:TOR as I see it is not aiming to be a Strategic MMO, but a RPG MMO (RPG's being what Bioware does best) How do you get the imersion of playing a Jedi or Smuggler etc in the SW universe without story? Do you really want another MMO were you just run up to NPC with big glowing question mark over there head click on them, don't read script run out and kill 10 more rats? If so your in luck as plenty of them seem to already be out to serve your game playing needs.
Is there a way to nominate a post for most delusional of the year?
And I've said it before, if these game mechanics keep players like this away, then count me in.
I think the Poster was being sarcastic, and that people are simply missing the sarcasm in his post.
#1) 250K being a very small number of people in terms of all MMO gamers currently out there, but also being the number most delusional SWG precu/nge fans/vets think SWG would still have in subscribers today if they hadn't changed. While Bioware might be ok with 250K subs i think they are aiming to break out of the 250K once upon a time, SWG niche crowd. (I hear theres some kinda SWG precu emulator out for that market these days anyway)
#2) The demand that Bioware a company that had nothing to do with SWG somehow "owes" the players a SWG PRE-CU game being another jab at many of the posters here.
#3) and of course lastly the Whole "We took down $OE" comedy that many SWG vets somehow still believe. Just as they believed SWG would close last year, and the year before that, and next month etc etc. over their outrage as they have posted again and again. (Comedy gold really)
You can start writing your rant early and have a very polished and internet ready tirade by launch... Or you can just take it easy and like the rest of us wait for more info to be released till we have a nearly complete picture of the entire game. Which would include the skill system, quest system, leveling, pvp, raiding, crafting, pve, and the combat mechanics videos, as well as interviews and gamplay write-ups along with impressions from testers and reviewers alike.
I would suggest at that point getting into OB even if you have to pay 5$ at EB/Gamestop for a pre-order. Then you can try it for yourself then you can have 1st hand info on how things did or didn't work. Then at least you can have something substantial to base your feelings and opinions on.
To sum up my opinion : Way Too Early for this thread topic.
* edit added for clarity
/carry on
Hard? Which part was hard? Copying macros off the forums so you could AFK dance, or throwing 'nades at lairs for combat XP?
You know what the hardest thing about pre-CU SWG was for me? Finding a good reason to keep paying my subscription fee.
Hard? Which part was hard? Copying macros off the forums so you could AFK dance, or throwing 'nades at lairs for combat XP?
You know what the hardest thing about pre-CU SWG was for me? Finding a good reason to keep paying my subscription fee.
Lol, I just made a macro to target next enemy every second followed by a pistol skill, repeat. I leveled up behing the starport in mos eisley to Master Pistoleer in one afk night... wasn't hard by any means.
Hard? Which part was hard? Copying macros off the forums so you could AFK dance, or throwing 'nades at lairs for combat XP?
You know what the hardest thing about pre-CU SWG was for me? Finding a good reason to keep paying my subscription fee.
SWG wasn't about leveling / skilling up, that was just a means of progression. More MMOs should be about the world instead of about winning / finishing - which is the opposite of what an MMO should be.
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
First of all, what does that even mean?
Second, who are you to lecture us about "what an MMO should be" and why should I give a damn?