You know, that some linkshells in FFXI buy bots called NASA that cost over 2500 dollars? Should we say that they deserve to get claim since they paid so much money to get the best bot?
The sad thing is, people would do that as silly as it sounds =/
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
maybe something like 1st group to deal 5-10% damage locks it
One major problem with this. Its sounds good but it is flawed. You ever heard the phrase, "the rich get richer" well the best eqipt group will do the most damage and always win claim.
I think a good way to do it would be to have the HNM's spawn in a huge zone, and 100% random anywhere in the zone, Then the team that could mobilize the fastest and gather up gets claim, of course if you claim too early your gonna wipe.
this would still end up with poepl using bots and 3rd party programs to catch the spawn. It also is no way for a game dev to tst this because the areas in FFXI are HUGE and they would have no way to tell when, if, where the spawn happened or properly the way it should while testing phases. And it would be no fun for devs to make this part of their game so unfun, and nearly impossible to claim/play with others where everyone is so spread out it takes 10 minutes or longer to meet up actuially trying to save their party memebrs while in a group from what theyt have been camping so long for .
what are you talking about? it is very possible to make an HNM spawn anywhere in zone. I have had very basic programming classes and it can be done with ease.
I say anywhere, but its not really anywhere, What you do would be place invisible markers on the map and alot of them enough to have a marker in every corner of the map. Then with a simple random generator to pick one spot. for it to pop. FFXI had a system similar to it with the NM pops. I camped LL and VE a bunch after camping it for a while you learn that it has places i.e. markers where it poped granted it was over a small area of the map, theres no reason whatsoever that it couldnt be extended to cover the entire map.
Its highly testable I have no idea where you came up with that from If wide scan is in they could use game mechanics to test. Or they could do it a various of other ways.
How would it be "unfun" the guild that was best organized would get it, the ones that could gather together the quickest would get it. Bots/hacks are any game theres no way around it. Claim bots would be a lot less effective. Speed hacks would be the one to fear, but the whole guild would have to do it otherwise the speed hacker would get owned before his guild got there. And to stop a speed hacker from claiming and running, make the hnm lose agro if he claims and runs. Or give him a bind move.
It just sounds like you dont like the idea for whatever reason maybe its to fair to be fun? But dont give bogus technical reason.
Edit: Or if you dont like the marker idea, you could use a grid based map with a random gen. to pick 2 grid locations and then it will pop there, Of course you would have to exclude places that players couldnt get to. However this system leads to the possibility of some complications. buts itsa very plausable idea.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Just keep doing like Ixion, and spawn randomly in a set amount of zones. Also, the LS on our server with the NASA bot, has been beat out 2 nights straight by an LS without it. Because of the lockout period, there is still a chance to beat bots.
I'm really not too worried about bots, or gold-farmers in FFXIV. If any developer out there that knows how combat them its Square-Enix. FFXI economy, botting and gold farming was rampant and just so out of control it was insane but they turned it around and brought prices down to damn near launch status, and have been actively removing and destroying botters and gold farmers better than any other MMO developer out there!
Square knows how bad it effects the game and the honest players and I'm confident that with everything they have learned with FFXI will be 100x better and more secure with FFXIV. Botters and Gold Farmers beware....just stay away!
They are aiming for a casual crowd with this game so I highly doubt camping NMs for hours for a chance of a low drop rate is going to be a big focus of the game like FFXI. It would be an instant killer to most of the casual crowd. If they wanted to keep it, I would say increase spawn rates on soloable NMs by quite a bit, and drop rates too. Maybe even have a system where the NM can drop a type of currency specifically for the piece of gear it drops so if you have incredibly bad luck with drop rates, you will eventually get the gear from the currency aquired and make the currency non tradeable. For harder HNMs make it so when the NM spawns, anyone can attack it, but if you or someone in your party/alliance attack it you and your whole group are sent into private phased encounter with the HNM so every linkshell gets to fight it when it spawns, almost like in other FF games random encounters. Make it so you can only fight the HNM once per spawn as well so when players kill the HNM and are ported back to the zone they can't just attack it again and farm it. Different HNMs may keep spawned for different amount of times, Kings stay spawned for 15 minutes, HNMs half an hour etc. This would keep people camping HNMs and needing to keep track of ToDs and spawn windows without the frustration of missing claim on a 24 hour spawn. Who has the fastest claim bot should not be the way to end game HNM camping. I really think HNM camping added to the community, being out in the zones camping amongs many other players was very social. It was just too damn frustrating, I think a solution like this would be pretty reasonable. The casuals could take their stabs at the hard HNMs without the frustration of missing super long spawns and the hardcores can camp and farm them everyday like they do in FFXI.
Dang that would be casual for sure. Even with my now limited playtime I would have everthing I wanted within 6 months and be looking for a new game. I sure hope SE doesnt go that casual.
edit: can I ask you a question? To me thats just a boring gind and timesink you know you will get what you want, its a matter of time. heres the question: Why would you want something so simple so structured? Theres no challenege in that. Everybody will have the drops they want. It makes no sense to me.
I'm not saying it should be exactly like that. Its just a suggestion. Either way I want the fights and content to be challenging, not beating out bots for claims. Missing 24 hour claims and spending gigantic amounts of time camping isn't challenging to me. I want the difficulty of the content to time sink me, not a ridiculous system. Camping HNMs was ok if you were one of the first to 75 and didn't have nearly as much competition but 200+ people sitting in DA waiting for a 24 hour spawn is a bit ridiculous though to me.
Make rare drops & spawns completely random (not timed or predictable), unless they are necessary for something - then implment a style similar to FFXIs current, but not as harsh.
The classic mmo style of waiting hours for things to spawn adds no game value and is more hassle than necessary. It was fine in the days when -everything- you did took lots of time, but now it should to be alot more friendly & there really is no reason it shouldnt be (beyond individual player ego quotas). Make the best gear earned by effort (ala raiding, long quest chains, high level crafts) and everything else random or crafted...lots of mmos do it that way and it makes the grind just a little less dull to get the occasional "purple" to throw into your backpack.
You wont see better drop rates,they want rare items to be rare.
The first thing they need to do is make the spawns able to spawn anywhere in the zone,that way a bot cannot camp it ,although it still leaves the game open to warp cheats,so they can warp right onto the NM.This is addressed by not using that stupid 4 number code spawn,so soon as the cheat sites get the code it is a spawn cheat,able to warp right onto the mob.
I have an idea,but i guess i am much smarter than the dummies at Square.Make all rare spawns multiple kill spawns and only the person who meets the criteria would get the right clue as to the were abouts of the NM spawn..They need to make the sequence changeable,so everyday or every spawn can have a new sequence.Example talk to NPC,he gives a clue/hint,you figure out the clue go kill a mob,then talk to npc again.This can continue as many times as you want the NM to be rare.So if the NM drops a very handy item,make the sequence say 5/6/7 kills long,so you have to figure out 5/6/7 clues to get it to spawn.Then after the final clue the NPC will give you a spawn location,then you have so much time to get there and kill the NM,if he is not en gaged say within 30 seconds of spawning,he disappears.
There is almost no way a bot could handle that,as the code for the script would have to be incredibly adept,i just don't see it happening.Like i said it needs to have a variable parameter for the sequence,so it is forever changing.
By giving NM's a placeholder and just one at that and a 4 digit code,makes it far to easy to cheat on,i surely hope they have learned something ,otherwise might as well use Game Guard like all the other lame developers that don't actually care about cheating.
The biggest thing of all is that we need a MUCH better communication tool to report cheats .Putting players on 2/3/4/5 hour waits is unacceptable,it is not a tool at all,when you put people on hold.
The way i see it,is if the developer cannot handle the load,there is A too many problems with the game or B too many cheats witch is also a problem with the game design.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I played FFXI about 4 or 5 yrs ago however from time to time I've logged back on, about a year ago was the most recent. Anyways I'm fairly certain that this issues was resolved because they made most of the special loot "No Drop". Really if you want to stop the bots who farm an item just to sell it on the auction house just do that. Make it so that you can only hold one of that item and its no drop.
The way i see it,is if the developer cannot handle the load,there is A too many problems with the game or B too many cheats witch is also a problem with the game design.
What about C? Too many cry babies that bitch about everything. Do you ever stop to think about how many worthless calls GMs get from cry babies who didn't get exactly what they wanted? I'll give SE some slack for the GM call times, cause I knew ppl who would call GMs everyday to complain about stupid crap that wasn't even relevent.
I vote to keep it the way it is people want their gear handed to them I say f**k that you must earn your gear by farming gil for it waiting hours for a NM to pop waiting almost a day for an HNM to pop. Yes this game is going casual but seriously if I wanted everything handed to me I would still be playing WoW. Now on to quests let me guess you want exp and gil rewards along with gear also huh? I say f**k that to again earn it! People want a great game to turn into a sinkhole I have played FFXI since launch and I played WoW till they decided to hand out everything with TBC.
I want to have fun and by just having everything handed to me is not fun. I want to be able to play a game for years not months.
I would like to see some instanced dungeons, that would stop Bot campers. If anyting they can take the 10,20 etc. man, raid type instances. 18 man alliance just aint it anymore
there are ways to combat botters without instancing. The concept behind the 24 hour spawns, and one kill is to limit the amount of armor that makes it into the game world. Keep the same setup, just use the ixion approach. No one is botting that mob, cause it's not easy to bot.
I always thought it would be cool if the game could somehow track what players were a part of what parties killing mobs. That way, people who actually spend time camping them could have an exclusive (maybe instanced) scenario where they have "dibs" on the NM that spawns. I never minded the time put in to get these NM drops because the items were well worth it. Sometimes it was a bit much staring at a screen waiting for something to pop though. Make it fun somehow. Add quests and items you have to go after in order to pop it or something.
I posted this in another thread but here are my ideas.... (with a few others added on)
Make NM timers reset as soon as they pop. NOT after they die. This would prevent people from holding them for hours to pull it into a different time zone and instead keep it constantly revolving bcause nothing the player does will change it.
Make them harder to hold. Example: Fafhogg... make the darters aggro when it has been slept a certain amount of times. Sort of like a, "we didn't notice at first but now that you've cast Sleep 3 times, we notice and it's annoying so we're gonna attack you." It should be simple enough to do this in certian areas. This would also prevent 2 people from holding it and waiting for help.
Also make the pops not so married to the times or the area.
Keep the rarity of the drops the same tho... yes they said that they're going to incorporate the casual gamer but at the same time they also said that they would still have stuff for the hardcore. Do you think a casual gamer is goign to spend hours per week just sitting waiting for a pop that their ls might not get? Not likely save the regular NMs like Lizzy or Emperor lol
I always thought it would be cool if the game could somehow track what players were a part of what parties killing mobs. That way, people who actually spend time camping them could have an exclusive (maybe instanced) scenario where they have "dibs" on the NM that spawns. I never minded the time put in to get these NM drops because the items were well worth it. Sometimes it was a bit much staring at a screen waiting for something to pop though. Make it fun somehow. Add quests and items you have to go after in order to pop it or something.
One problem with messing with the pop time from 24hrs. Is that with a 24hr or even a 12 hr you could estimate when it would show.
If it was a 16 hr timer then if you where out of the loop for a week (heck even 3 days) it could get VERY confuzing on when it was going to show. And then you would have to cordinate with someone who has been camping/keeping record.
You could supliment this "possibly" with a record on the FFXIV web site that show's the pop times for them this week....but then your "exluding" people that don't get online alot....
(Of course if your not online alot why the hell are you playing a mmo)
They stated that there will be many new systems that waren't in previous or current MMOs. After all, they are japanese so they might come out with a crazy spawning or NM/Boss system.
One problem with messing with the pop time from 24hrs. Is that with a 24hr or even a 12 hr you could estimate when it would show. If it was a 16 hr timer then if you where out of the loop for a week (heck even 3 days) it could get VERY confuzing on when it was going to show. And then you would have to cordinate with someone who has been camping/keeping record. You could supliment this "possibly" with a record on the FFXIV web site that show's the pop times for them this week....but then your "exluding" people that don't get online alot....
(Of course if your not online alot why the hell are you playing a mmo)
Wait why is it a problem if someone looses track of the pop times for HNM or NM in general? Because it gives someone else a chance to get it? NM and HNM are meant to be enjoyed by everyone. They are not supposed to be easy or handed to you by telling you exactly when they pop...total randomness is the best way to go about with NM and HNM. People with more time in their hands will no doubt come across more NMs which is JUST LIKE IT SHOULD BE.
I always thought it would be cool if the game could somehow track what players were a part of what parties killing mobs. That way, people who actually spend time camping them could have an exclusive (maybe instanced) scenario where they have "dibs" on the NM that spawns. I never minded the time put in to get these NM drops because the items were well worth it. Sometimes it was a bit much staring at a screen waiting for something to pop though. Make it fun somehow. Add quests and items you have to go after in order to pop it or something.
Well that is all good and all but in a game that is primarely PVE and no PVP there needs to be at least SOME sort of way for people to compete/ guilds to compete and brag about their achievments. I liked it that a few guilds would go after a HNM eventhough the claiming system may have not always been fair but it was always fun competing with other guilds for the prize and it always felt soo good when your guild got the claim.
Comments
Have them pop anywhere in a region of maps. No distinct place. Problem solved (sorta).
example: Desert rare NM would pop in any desert type area (map).
If they got the cash to pay for them and do that all more power to them lol.
You know, that some linkshells in FFXI buy bots called NASA that cost over 2500 dollars? Should we say that they deserve to get claim since they paid so much money to get the best bot?
The sad thing is, people would do that as silly as it sounds =/
One major problem with this. Its sounds good but it is flawed. You ever heard the phrase, "the rich get richer" well the best eqipt group will do the most damage and always win claim.
I think a good way to do it would be to have the HNM's spawn in a huge zone, and 100% random anywhere in the zone, Then the team that could mobilize the fastest and gather up gets claim, of course if you claim too early your gonna wipe.
this would still end up with poepl using bots and 3rd party programs to catch the spawn. It also is no way for a game dev to tst this because the areas in FFXI are HUGE and they would have no way to tell when, if, where the spawn happened or properly the way it should while testing phases. And it would be no fun for devs to make this part of their game so unfun, and nearly impossible to claim/play with others where everyone is so spread out it takes 10 minutes or longer to meet up actuially trying to save their party memebrs while in a group from what theyt have been camping so long for .
what are you talking about? it is very possible to make an HNM spawn anywhere in zone. I have had very basic programming classes and it can be done with ease.
I say anywhere, but its not really anywhere, What you do would be place invisible markers on the map and alot of them enough to have a marker in every corner of the map. Then with a simple random generator to pick one spot. for it to pop. FFXI had a system similar to it with the NM pops. I camped LL and VE a bunch after camping it for a while you learn that it has places i.e. markers where it poped granted it was over a small area of the map, theres no reason whatsoever that it couldnt be extended to cover the entire map.
Its highly testable I have no idea where you came up with that from If wide scan is in they could use game mechanics to test. Or they could do it a various of other ways.
How would it be "unfun" the guild that was best organized would get it, the ones that could gather together the quickest would get it. Bots/hacks are any game theres no way around it. Claim bots would be a lot less effective. Speed hacks would be the one to fear, but the whole guild would have to do it otherwise the speed hacker would get owned before his guild got there. And to stop a speed hacker from claiming and running, make the hnm lose agro if he claims and runs. Or give him a bind move.
It just sounds like you dont like the idea for whatever reason maybe its to fair to be fun? But dont give bogus technical reason.
Edit: Or if you dont like the marker idea, you could use a grid based map with a random gen. to pick 2 grid locations and then it will pop there, Of course you would have to exclude places that players couldnt get to. However this system leads to the possibility of some complications. buts itsa very plausable idea.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
I did not say it was impossible, just not simple and makes the spawn idea no fun since one person cannot acomplish it with ANY varieing certainty.
Hmm well to me "uncertainty" is much more fun than "certainty". Especially since claim bots wins the day in a small area.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Just keep doing like Ixion, and spawn randomly in a set amount of zones. Also, the LS on our server with the NASA bot, has been beat out 2 nights straight by an LS without it. Because of the lockout period, there is still a chance to beat bots.
I'm really not too worried about bots, or gold-farmers in FFXIV. If any developer out there that knows how combat them its Square-Enix. FFXI economy, botting and gold farming was rampant and just so out of control it was insane but they turned it around and brought prices down to damn near launch status, and have been actively removing and destroying botters and gold farmers better than any other MMO developer out there!
Square knows how bad it effects the game and the honest players and I'm confident that with everything they have learned with FFXI will be 100x better and more secure with FFXIV. Botters and Gold Farmers beware....just stay away!
Dang that would be casual for sure. Even with my now limited playtime I would have everthing I wanted within 6 months and be looking for a new game. I sure hope SE doesnt go that casual.
edit: can I ask you a question? To me thats just a boring gind and timesink you know you will get what you want, its a matter of time. heres the question: Why would you want something so simple so structured? Theres no challenege in that. Everybody will have the drops they want. It makes no sense to me.
I'm not saying it should be exactly like that. Its just a suggestion. Either way I want the fights and content to be challenging, not beating out bots for claims. Missing 24 hour claims and spending gigantic amounts of time camping isn't challenging to me. I want the difficulty of the content to time sink me, not a ridiculous system. Camping HNMs was ok if you were one of the first to 75 and didn't have nearly as much competition but 200+ people sitting in DA waiting for a 24 hour spawn is a bit ridiculous though to me.
One word: Randomness
Make rare drops & spawns completely random (not timed or predictable), unless they are necessary for something - then implment a style similar to FFXIs current, but not as harsh.
The classic mmo style of waiting hours for things to spawn adds no game value and is more hassle than necessary. It was fine in the days when -everything- you did took lots of time, but now it should to be alot more friendly & there really is no reason it shouldnt be (beyond individual player ego quotas). Make the best gear earned by effort (ala raiding, long quest chains, high level crafts) and everything else random or crafted...lots of mmos do it that way and it makes the grind just a little less dull to get the occasional "purple" to throw into your backpack.
You wont see better drop rates,they want rare items to be rare.
The first thing they need to do is make the spawns able to spawn anywhere in the zone,that way a bot cannot camp it ,although it still leaves the game open to warp cheats,so they can warp right onto the NM.This is addressed by not using that stupid 4 number code spawn,so soon as the cheat sites get the code it is a spawn cheat,able to warp right onto the mob.
I have an idea,but i guess i am much smarter than the dummies at Square.Make all rare spawns multiple kill spawns and only the person who meets the criteria would get the right clue as to the were abouts of the NM spawn..They need to make the sequence changeable,so everyday or every spawn can have a new sequence.Example talk to NPC,he gives a clue/hint,you figure out the clue go kill a mob,then talk to npc again.This can continue as many times as you want the NM to be rare.So if the NM drops a very handy item,make the sequence say 5/6/7 kills long,so you have to figure out 5/6/7 clues to get it to spawn.Then after the final clue the NPC will give you a spawn location,then you have so much time to get there and kill the NM,if he is not en gaged say within 30 seconds of spawning,he disappears.
There is almost no way a bot could handle that,as the code for the script would have to be incredibly adept,i just don't see it happening.Like i said it needs to have a variable parameter for the sequence,so it is forever changing.
By giving NM's a placeholder and just one at that and a 4 digit code,makes it far to easy to cheat on,i surely hope they have learned something ,otherwise might as well use Game Guard like all the other lame developers that don't actually care about cheating.
The biggest thing of all is that we need a MUCH better communication tool to report cheats .Putting players on 2/3/4/5 hour waits is unacceptable,it is not a tool at all,when you put people on hold.
The way i see it,is if the developer cannot handle the load,there is A too many problems with the game or B too many cheats witch is also a problem with the game design.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
What about making players attackable for a certain length of time after engaging an NM?
I played FFXI about 4 or 5 yrs ago however from time to time I've logged back on, about a year ago was the most recent. Anyways I'm fairly certain that this issues was resolved because they made most of the special loot "No Drop". Really if you want to stop the bots who farm an item just to sell it on the auction house just do that. Make it so that you can only hold one of that item and its no drop.
What about C? Too many cry babies that bitch about everything. Do you ever stop to think about how many worthless calls GMs get from cry babies who didn't get exactly what they wanted? I'll give SE some slack for the GM call times, cause I knew ppl who would call GMs everyday to complain about stupid crap that wasn't even relevent.
I vote to keep it the way it is people want their gear handed to them I say f**k that you must earn your gear by farming gil for it waiting hours for a NM to pop waiting almost a day for an HNM to pop. Yes this game is going casual but seriously if I wanted everything handed to me I would still be playing WoW. Now on to quests let me guess you want exp and gil rewards along with gear also huh? I say f**k that to again earn it! People want a great game to turn into a sinkhole I have played FFXI since launch and I played WoW till they decided to hand out everything with TBC.
I want to have fun and by just having everything handed to me is not fun. I want to be able to play a game for years not months.
I would like to see some instanced dungeons, that would stop Bot campers. If anyting they can take the 10,20 etc. man, raid type instances. 18 man alliance just aint it anymore
there are ways to combat botters without instancing. The concept behind the 24 hour spawns, and one kill is to limit the amount of armor that makes it into the game world. Keep the same setup, just use the ixion approach. No one is botting that mob, cause it's not easy to bot.
I always thought it would be cool if the game could somehow track what players were a part of what parties killing mobs. That way, people who actually spend time camping them could have an exclusive (maybe instanced) scenario where they have "dibs" on the NM that spawns. I never minded the time put in to get these NM drops because the items were well worth it. Sometimes it was a bit much staring at a screen waiting for something to pop though. Make it fun somehow. Add quests and items you have to go after in order to pop it or something.
I posted this in another thread but here are my ideas.... (with a few others added on)
Make NM timers reset as soon as they pop. NOT after they die. This would prevent people from holding them for hours to pull it into a different time zone and instead keep it constantly revolving bcause nothing the player does will change it.
Make them harder to hold. Example: Fafhogg... make the darters aggro when it has been slept a certain amount of times. Sort of like a, "we didn't notice at first but now that you've cast Sleep 3 times, we notice and it's annoying so we're gonna attack you." It should be simple enough to do this in certian areas. This would also prevent 2 people from holding it and waiting for help.
Also make the pops not so married to the times or the area.
Keep the rarity of the drops the same tho... yes they said that they're going to incorporate the casual gamer but at the same time they also said that they would still have stuff for the hardcore. Do you think a casual gamer is goign to spend hours per week just sitting waiting for a pop that their ls might not get? Not likely save the regular NMs like Lizzy or Emperor lol
They already do this with the Sandworm in ffxi.
One problem with messing with the pop time from 24hrs. Is that with a 24hr or even a 12 hr you could estimate when it would show.
If it was a 16 hr timer then if you where out of the loop for a week (heck even 3 days) it could get VERY confuzing on when it was going to show. And then you would have to cordinate with someone who has been camping/keeping record.
You could supliment this "possibly" with a record on the FFXIV web site that show's the pop times for them this week....but then your "exluding" people that don't get online alot....
(Of course if your not online alot why the hell are you playing a mmo)
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They stated that there will be many new systems that waren't in previous or current MMOs. After all, they are japanese so they might come out with a crazy spawning or NM/Boss system.
Wait why is it a problem if someone looses track of the pop times for HNM or NM in general? Because it gives someone else a chance to get it? NM and HNM are meant to be enjoyed by everyone. They are not supposed to be easy or handed to you by telling you exactly when they pop...total randomness is the best way to go about with NM and HNM. People with more time in their hands will no doubt come across more NMs which is JUST LIKE IT SHOULD BE.
Well that is all good and all but in a game that is primarely PVE and no PVP there needs to be at least SOME sort of way for people to compete/ guilds to compete and brag about their achievments. I liked it that a few guilds would go after a HNM eventhough the claiming system may have not always been fair but it was always fun competing with other guilds for the prize and it always felt soo good when your guild got the claim.
and getting that ebody, ridill, and dalmy