I have to say one of the ley things most MMO's have done wrong, and this has been pointed out, is put levels in games.
The departure from skill based to level based changed everything and not for the good. You never cared about how many things you had to kill when you were going for 100 Swordsmanship in Ultima Online. Even in OLD SWG it was skill based and you cared a lot less about how long it took or what it took. That aside I think some of the ideas mentioned have been tried and failed but the key is to keep thinking and keep putting ideas out there.
COMBAT-
FPS style combat exist in D&D Online and its a failure, similar things were tried in Age of Conan too and it also failed. The die roll mechanic works but people need to start putting more care into the quests your performing so you dont have to kill 1,000,000,000 boars. It could be improved upon by giving people various routes of skills to choose from and different animations or better yet have a few 1000 animations that as players we can string together to give yourself a more custom feel to those skills you use.
PVP/PVE
I think too much emphasis is put on PVP but that is my personal view. I find there are 3 types of players: Pvp'rs, Pve'rs and Players. I am a player I will play a game and try all the different aspects of the game taking no ones opinion but my own. Pvp'rs only care about pvp and fighting each other...I think it is a serious statement about people in general that we feel the need to fight each other even in an enviroment designed for fun. Pve'rs are very different maybe they just like to level, or just like to craft, or maybe they just like to socialize whatever it is that is why they play. I think PVP is a needed component for a game to be succesful financially but I think it needs to be made fun with a Game system to it.
CRAFTING-
This is my STRONGEST area discussion because contrary to what some people think crafting does need to be more complex and I will explain why. But I will note it needs to be a gradual increase in complexity.
For people like me I am a crafter. We craft that is what we do.
I will give an example of a bad crafting system and why first.
World of Warcraft has a horrible crafting system, why?
Because if I have a 100 Blacksmithy and make a dagger and my friend has a 400 Blacksmithy and makes the same dagger they are IDENTICAL. No difference all of his months of extra work has made him no more skilled at making that dagger than myself. No rewards for his efforts. Another reason it is horrible is there is absolutely no chance of failure you cannot fail at crafting so there is no challenge. And the third and final reason why, because you have to become a skilled combatant just to craft. I do not see why you cannot craft to max skill from level 1.
Now a good crafting system would have a gradual increase in complexity, use a large assortment of materials, that you can use and would have a system integrated allowing you to customize the look of the item as well as its stats. Give each item a base pool of stats and the higher your skill the more you can move those numbers around. So by the time you were at maximum skill you could completely remake the concept of the item. Using my above example if I had 100 skill and made a dagger maybe I could change the hilt on it, move the maximum damage up some and lower the minimum. My friend who was a master could make the dagger and pick the hilt, its colors, the blade pick the color, Maybe even Name the thing, and make the max/min damage exactly what he wanted within the limits of the item and MAYBE have a chance to imbue it with some magical effect just from his sheer skill.
ANother thing missing is the repair factor if your playing WOW and your a master Hammer smith why can you not repair at least your own Hammer? I mean does your character skip that day of training or what?
Someone at work was asking me about that very fact can you please let me know where they write up the reports you are talking about so I can forward to him.
Not the easiest things to find since the best, http://www.mmogchart.com/charts/ has basically stopped reporting (but they are still the best historical reference around) They have LotRO at 150-200k in early 2008.
Sadly. Neither Turbine nor Codemasters release subscription numbers. So really pretty much everyone is guessing and BSing, (myself included) based on sparse interviews, 3rd party sites and the "feel" from lots of forums and unofficial posts. Jeffrey Steefel has hinted in numerous interviews/articles that the games "audience" has been growing steadily but slowly.
Also, as that article mentions, you can try and draw some conclusions from www.xfire.com, but not with any concrete validity. (Although the generally static Xfire numbers can be used to argue it's not dropping at least)
It is probable that this isn't actually tracking active log ins, speculation currently seems to favor it showing total number of log ins that day or something similar - still it provides some useful base for analysis.
I know some people *like* the grind-encouraging, turn-based, dated and boring MUD-derived combat system, but I personally can't stand it. It quickly becomes simply a matter of arranging your actions in the best order in a hotbar, then pressing the hotbar keys in order repeatedly until your enemy has died. It has no strategy, it takes no skill, it's not even amusing or fun to watch. It's boring and trite and MMOG developers and players alike have the misconception that it's the only type of gameplay possible in an MMOG. It's ridiculous. Practically every MMOG in the past decade has been made with the exact same combat system, with minor variations.
[quote]
COMBAT-
FPS style combat exist in D&D Online and its a failure, similar things were tried in Age of Conan too and it also failed.
[/quote]
Neither game used FPS style combat actually. AoC used a target-based*, turn-based dice rolling system, which just happened to be fast paced. There was nothing FPS style about it. DDO allowed you to aim ranged based weaponry, but melee attacks were still rolled with to-hit dice etc. So, no, you don't know what you're talking about, sorry.
* Target-based = Regardless of the physical arc of a weapon, you will only ever hit the enemy you have selected.
* Turn-based = I do not mean "turn-based" in the sense that JRPGs are turn-based, but none the less, actions happened in clearly delineated turns, with pauses in between (based on numbers in your character sheet).
* Dice rolling = In AoC, the result of a given attack was based SOLELY on the result of a die roll with input parameters based on numbers from your character. Further, physically moving out of range or the line of an attack has no effect on whether or not it will hit.
If any 1 of those things is true about an MMOG, it cannot be said to be "FPS style" in any sense, and all three were true about AoC. The "directional attack" stuff was a thin facade, and meant nothing in terms of actual combat gameplay. In fact, AoC used the same basic MUD-derived combat as almost every MMOG for the past decade.
I think some others mentioned it, but the real problem that I see in MOST games, crafting-wise isn't the diversity or complexity of the crafting itself. But in how we bring the goods to market.
We need tools for selling AND buying, for placing orders and posting "willing to make..." notices.
I'd like to see what things have actually SOLD for, not just the prices people are offering them for.
It's be really great if I could log in, and see three notices for people who want to buy a hand crafted spear, I could make a few spears from materials on hand, fill the orders, and get to adventuring. If I didn't like the price they were offering I could just post up some spears at a higher price, but if the daily average (or whatever) is significantly lower than what I want, maybe I won't make any at all.
Osric_of_O: --------------- I love the idea for the "hustle" bonus when traveling via roads instead of cross country.
Furthermore, I constantly find myself wondering why on (Middle)Earth Turbine feels the need to make movement so generally slow in the first place. If they just made it to where the base run-speed for all characters was 125% of current (matching Warden and Captain speed buffs) then it would help greatly with making the game feel a bit faster. And for those who are not aware, the base speed really is "run speed" even though it feels like walking. Hit the "Insert" button and see what Turbine made the "walk speed" and see if you think of any reason for the "walk speed" existing at all.
Housing/Crafting: --------------- I love the idea of making it so that you could have a "vendor" or "order board" in the housing instances so that players could post "want ads" for crafted gear they would like to purchase, or crafters could post "offers" to make gear. That would give some benefits to crafting and the nearly unused housing.
The idea of being able to make the same item better based on craft expertise is wonderful as well. Even simply making a natural crit chance increase based on craft mastery would be a good start. If I am a Surpreme Master Weaponsmith and I craft an apprentice level dagger, I should have a base crit chance of 50% automatically.
I'm sorry, but a lot of the things mentioned in this article have been done and perfected. The game was called Starwars Galaxies (Pre NGE). That game had everything a player could want to have, and of course things could be tweaked to make gameplay better, but the game was just amazing.
The game had massive planets/maps, so at no point was an area cluttered, but even more players were in control. Your players could create an entire town, houses can be placed at will anywhere you wanted. Everything in game was created by another character, resources gathered by another character.. and in the essence of weapons, armor, and food buffs, all depended on the quality of their resources; which increased or decreased value.
The game wasn't really based on quests, quests were just something to give you a couple credits and some xp, but the game just let you live in the Starwars Galaxy, and actually be a part of everything.
Unfortunately not everyone shares my love for the game, but it's the only game that had so many things right, but the developers trying to "think outside the box" ruined it to dumb the game down, and instead lost millions of subscribers.
Anyway, as far as Lord of the Rings. It's the only other MMO I've been able to enjoy for any period of time aside from SWG. Though combat became very very repetitive, and relying on groups to get quests completed is a good thing but got old fast. Housing is an absolute disgrace, and storage/crafting/etc was just not very well done.
I don't know why players can't trade weapons that they've equipped, I don't know how many weapons I had to just trash just because I outgrew it, but no one else could use... and it's really annoying when your Grand Master Weaponsmith makes crappier weapons than quest/loot found weapons... and the whole "Legendary" weapons is a big pile of crap.
People love to customize their own stuff, and make it their own. Giving it names, giving it it's own distinctive look, and having it be one of the rarest, baddest thing ever. Improving this game would take a lot, because as of right now it's an awesome looking game, but it just lacks in so many ways as stated above.
Hard to understand how a game built in 1999? had more free roaming than a game built in 2005+
I know this game took a lot of it's cues from World of Warcraft, still not sure how that game is so popular but that's beyond me, but it's type of game has the ability to be really great.
Edit: To expand on house customization/storage... To go back to SWG my house was bigger than probably most Guild houses in LORTO, and could hold up to 500 items, and any item found within the game could be placed inside the house anywhere I wanted. So if I found a broken sword, I could put it on the wall, ceiling, floor, flying in the air, whatever I wanted. I think I had a fireplace made out of a table, mechanic tool box, some torches, and some other items, all mixed together and the end result was actually quite pleasing.. I also had some old beat up armor suits displayed, a huge dragon skull, so many things... Some of you may remember if you played the game back in the day, how good it was..
An interesting debate. I played LOTRO from launch for quite a while on and off.
Personally, I found the combat was one of the more lacking areas of the game and is probably the main reason why I doubt I'll return. While I think a full FPS would be a step too far - almost certainly alienating the majority of existing subscribers (NGE anyone?) perhaps less drastic changes could go a long way to making combat more interesting. Active dodging/blocking certainly, less reliance on a continually chaining different buttons with little variation and more on timing, positioning etc.
As an example, DDO's combat feels much more interesting/exciting. The differences are small, but I always felt the combat in DDO was just more fun. I don't play either anymore btw, so I'm not trying to bang the drum for DDO or anything. There's plenty of other combat systems that are arguably better, though ultimately it's personal taste.
I can't imagine them not releasing fully playable Orcs etc, though I'd expect it to probably be with the release of a major battlefield. If it's well implemented they could easily double the subs.
I constantly find myself wondering why on (Middle)Earth Turbine feels the need to make movement so generally slow in the first place.
To play devils advocate, travel is already unrealistically fast in the game - mostly because they've shrunk the various areas down. Run from Bree to Rivendell and time it. Then go back and look at how long that trip took in the books.
However, realistically, the reason for the run speed is to make it advantageous for people to buy a horse and/or use stable routes. This acts as a money sink and helps them control the economy. Although, I guess they could raise the horse speed when they raised the run speed - but that might create game stability/frame rate issues.
I completely disagree with your concept of combat. If you want that much control go play a FPS, they are designed that way. I much rather play a MMO where my lack of quick reactions doesn't doom me in a fight. I think you will find only a small minority agreeing with you on this one.
As to crafting, I agree with you. Adding chance and skill in to crafting is very important. Games that have strict formulas that do not vary with the crafters skill and chance have doomed themselves to mediocrity in this arena.
personally i think the ideas mentioned would make for a more exciting and mature game over the existing gamestyle (i'm not a hardcore mmorpger but i find the 'wow clone' games incredibly boring and extremely child orientated)
it would also mean changing lotro into a completely different game which is not something i would agree, not without the consent of their existing playerbase anyway
hey Menacewithin, Are there still a lot of people playing SWG? did they upgrade the graphics? I was surprised when I clicked on the population link for lotro (thanks again) how over 800k are online the 2x I had time to check. I must be on the wrong server but no big deal. Lotro graphics are beutiful when I check the game out. Am curious to know if SWG did anything with theirs. It was a cool game for its time your right. Too many other mmos came out to compete with it. I have a tendacy to check out more than I should overlooking some and forgeting how good some were. coh/v is still great for an old game, very unique and constantly changing. People are talking about ddo combat style? I played the game for the first month it came out, still own it. Did they change much since then or did I just overlook (probably forgot) the combat system? thanks.
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
While its good to keep discussions like these in open conversation, I have to point out that rarely does the voice of the satisfied gamer receive any substantial represenation.
I for one have been enjoying LotRO for over a year now with very few complaints. In fact, I belong to a kinship of mature, selfless people that are quite satisfied with the game overall and hardly have a cross word to say about it. We have discussions about bugs or game mechanics that we think may be improved upon, but my kin-mates are happy. We really enjoy the game.
Now what contrasts may there be between our enjoyable experience and your unenjoyable experiences? Personally, I think it boils down to one very important maxim: You get out of it only what you bring to it.
Straight up - this is one of the lost lessons of our civilisation. With any task, job, project, game, hobby, craft, relationship, etc., you can only expect to receive that which you brought to it, within reason of course.
Insofar as the game you happen to be playing at the moment is concerned, improvements can almost always be made. Knowledge is aggregate, after all, and hind-sight allows you and I a chance to play the critic. But as for my enjoyment in the world of Saul Zaentz- *ahem* Tolkien, I cannot complain over-much. The only other place I'd rather be adventuring with a hobbit is found within the space between the type on the pages contained within but only a handfull of books.
Change it to a twitch based FPS, or some abortion of a hybrid system where you have to aim manually but your stats still affect whether you hit or not....no thanks. LoTRO has fairly strategic combat for a turn based system. Play up something other than a Hunter or a Champion and you'd be aware of that. And why is LoTRO being called out on this, instead of WoW, WAR, EQ, EQ II...and hell every other MMO that has turn based combat?
Crafting:
I happen to like the crafting a great deal. It lets you make great gear without being too much of a horrific grind. See WoW for how not to do crafting. See launch WAR for how to have a crafting system that sucks so badly that whoever designed it hould be taken outside and shot. The fact that you can hunt up rare ingredients to increase your chances of making a superior product (or that it's even possible to crit items in the first place) already puts the crafting in LoTRO ahead of 90% of MMOs.
I do agree that it would be nice to be able to craft trully unique items, or at least modify the stats on end products to a greater degree than "normal" vs "crit." However, again, I'm not sure why LoTRO is being called out on this. EQ II, EVE, and a few other MMOs have better crafting. But really, not many do in my experience. I see it as one of the strengths of the game.
Housing:
It's nice that LoTRO at least has housing. Decorating my house is a fun side game. However, it's one of the most basic systems on the market (unless you count numerous MMOs that have no housing at all). It also really bugs me that we can't free form place items. This is one area where LoTRO does need real improvement.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I do not want to "dodge and block and roll" when in combat. If liked that kind of thing, I'd already be playing an FPS, which I am not. I certainly hope the OP does not get enough backing to ruin this wonderful game!
Combat: Change it to a twitch based FPS, or some abortion of a hybrid system where you have to aim manually but your stats still affect whether you hit or not....no thanks. LoTRO has fairly strategic combat for a turn based system.Don't take this the wrong way but may i ask where is the strategy? you point, click then press a couple of buttons to set of special skills, if you fail a quest, get defeated etc. there is nothing you can do different next time or is this just purely in comparison to wow, eq2 etc? Play up something other than a Hunter or a Champion and you'd be aware of that.Classes i setteld on where hunter, lore-master and guardian and din't really see any difference in them outside the starter lvls And why is LoTRO being called out on this, instead of WoW, WAR, EQ, EQ II...and hell every other MMO that has turn based combat?maybe the guy is a lotr fan
Combat: Change it to a twitch based FPS, or some abortion of a hybrid system where you have to aim manually but your stats still affect whether you hit or not....no thanks. LoTRO has fairly strategic combat for a turn based system.Don't take this the wrong way but may i ask where is the strategy? you point, click then press a couple of buttons to set of special skills, if you fail a quest, get defeated etc. there is nothing you can do different next time or is this just purely in comparison to wow, eq2 etc? Play up something other than a Hunter or a Champion and you'd be aware of that.Classes i setteld on where hunter, lore-master and guardian and din't really see any difference in them outside the starter lvls And why is LoTRO being called out on this, instead of WoW, WAR, EQ, EQ II...and hell every other MMO that has turn based combat?maybe the guy is a lotr fan
IMHO, how and when you click those skills introduces the strategy - particularly those skills with a longer timer. As a guardian who mostly plays in a fellowship setting (currently doing radiance runs), I need to manage aggro constantly. If I choose poorly in what skills to click when, it can make a big difference to whether or not we are successful. If I don't keep stuff off the minstrel, she dies and we'll probably wipe. Likewise, if she doesn't keep me alive, she'll probably be the next target once I'm down and we'll probably wipe. Also, due to the way the instances are structured, there's a lot of strategy in how you run and complete each instance. So - if you do get defeated - there's often plenty you can do differently the next time.
Find a good kinship and then find a group of friends within that kinship that you like to play regularly with. That is what will make the game fun for you in the long run. I've been playing LOTRO since beta. I play on 2 nights a week with a great fellowship. It's those people and the fun we have that keeps me playing.
Finally, from what I've heard, there's more strategy/tactics involved in playing a warden due to the gambit mechanism. To some extent, the attunement mechanism for runekeepers also introduces some strategy. My warden and runekeeper are lowbies though, so I can't comment personally.
Full disclosure - I have never played another MMO and I really like LOTRO (I have a lifetime membership). So long as there are people in LOTRO that I enjoy playing with, I don't see me stopping playing it (altho Bioware's SW MMO looks tempting). I have played FPSs extensively though and would not want to see that mechanic introduced in LOTRO.
Combat: Change it to a twitch based FPS, or some abortion of a hybrid system where you have to aim manually but your stats still affect whether you hit or not....no thanks. LoTRO has fairly strategic combat for a turn based system.Don't take this the wrong way but may i ask where is the strategy? you point, click then press a couple of buttons to set of special skills, if you fail a quest, get defeated etc. there is nothing you can do different next time or is this just purely in comparison to wow, eq2 etc? Play up something other than a Hunter or a Champion and you'd be aware of that.Classes i setteld on where hunter, lore-master and guardian and din't really see any difference in them outside the starter lvls And why is LoTRO being called out on this, instead of WoW, WAR, EQ, EQ II...and hell every other MMO that has turn based combat?maybe the guy is a lotr fan
I meant purely in comparison to other MMOs with turn based combat (WoW, EQ II, ect. as you say). That should have been pretty clear from the last line of my post.
And if you really couldn't tell any difference in the gameplay between
1. a fairly simple single target DPS class with limited crowd control abilities
2. a tank with two different primary combo chains that are activated by different reactives and where the combo chains have switch points leading to different outcomes (for example a high threat attack or a self heal off of a block activated chain).
3. and a class that in parties has to manage a pet as well as decide whether to heal, cure, DPS, debuff, stun targets, or hand out power buffs (and really needs to keep on top of all of them to be working at full potential).
...I would suggest that you didn't get far enough to see what these classes really can do, or that I very badly misinterpreted what you meant. For example, as I recall at low levels Gaurdians don't have a single combo chain, much less two reactive ones with branch points. The complexity in LoTRO ramps up very slowly, it's just as dead simple as most turn based MMOs at low levels (and remains so for some classes even at high levels).
In any case, I do not think the combat in LoTRO would be imrpoved in the slighest by moving away from the turn based model. Changing the combat so drastically this late in the games life would be an absolutely enourmous NGE style f up.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Combat: Change it to a twitch based FPS, or some abortion of a hybrid system where you have to aim manually but your stats still affect whether you hit or not....no thanks. LoTRO has fairly strategic combat for a turn based system.Don't take this the wrong way but may i ask where is the strategy? you point, click then press a couple of buttons to set of special skills, if you fail a quest, get defeated etc. there is nothing you can do different next time or is this just purely in comparison to wow, eq2 etc? Play up something other than a Hunter or a Champion and you'd be aware of that.Classes i setteld on where hunter, lore-master and guardian and din't really see any difference in them outside the starter lvls And why is LoTRO being called out on this, instead of WoW, WAR, EQ, EQ II...and hell every other MMO that has turn based combat?maybe the guy is a lotr fan
IMHO, how and when you click those skills introduces the strategy - particularly those skills with a longer timer. As a guardian who mostly plays in a fellowship setting (currently doing radiance runs), I need to manage aggro constantly. If I choose poorly in what skills to click when, it can make a big difference to whether or not we are successful. If I don't keep stuff off the minstrel, she dies and we'll probably wipe. Likewise, if she doesn't keep me alive, she'll probably be the next target once I'm down and we'll probably wipe. Also, due to the way the instances are structured, there's a lot of strategy in how you run and complete each instance. So - if you do get defeated - there's often plenty you can do differently the next time.I get you, also timing becomes more important when fighting multiple enemies
Find a good kinship and then find a group of friends within that kinship that you like to play regularly with. That is what will make the game fun for you in the long run. I've been playing LOTRO since beta. I play on 2 nights a week with a great fellowship. It's those people and the fun we have that keeps me playing.
Finally, from what I've heard, there's more strategy/tactics involved in playing a warden due to the gambit mechanism. To some extent, the attunement mechanism for runekeepers also introduces some strategy. My warden and runekeeper are lowbies though, so I can't comment personally.I left just b4 mom came out so can't comment either
Full disclosure - I have never played another MMO and I really like LOTRO (I have a lifetime membership). So long as there are people in LOTRO that I enjoy playing with, I don't see me stopping playing it (altho Bioware's SW MMO looks tempting). I have played FPSs extensively though and would not want to see that mechanic introduced in LOTRO. fps i think is the wrong term to describe it i think real time would be more accurate and has been in existence in comp rpg's almost as long as turn based games and has made for some great games if handled right(as has turn based) whether or not it would work in lotro better than the turn based i couldn't say without trying both, but that would be for a lotro 2 or lotro alternate
thnx have fun and hope they don't screw the game up for you
Combat: Change it to a twitch based FPS, or some abortion of a hybrid system where you have to aim manually but your stats still affect whether you hit or not....no thanks. LoTRO has fairly strategic combat for a turn based system.Don't take this the wrong way but may i ask where is the strategy? you point, click then press a couple of buttons to set of special skills, if you fail a quest, get defeated etc. there is nothing you can do different next time or is this just purely in comparison to wow, eq2 etc? Play up something other than a Hunter or a Champion and you'd be aware of that.Classes i setteld on where hunter, lore-master and guardian and din't really see any difference in them outside the starter lvls And why is LoTRO being called out on this, instead of WoW, WAR, EQ, EQ II...and hell every other MMO that has turn based combat?maybe the guy is a lotr fan
I meant purely in comparison to other MMOs with turn based combat (WoW, EQ II, ect. as you say). That should have been pretty clear from the last line of my post. Yep, but after posting in these forums i've found it best to clarify at times
And if you really couldn't tell any difference in the gameplay between
1. a fairly simple single target DPS class with limited crowd control abilities
2. a tank with two different primary combo chains that are activated by different reactives and where the combo chains have switch points leading to different outcomes (for example a high threat attack or a self heal off of a block activated chain).
3. and a class that in parties has to manage a pet as well as decide whether to heal, cure, DPS, debuff, stun targets, or hand out power buffs (and really needs to keep on top of all of them to be working at full potential).
...I would suggest that you didn't get far enough to see what these classes really can do, or that I very badly misinterpreted what you meant. For example, as I recall at low levels Gaurdians don't have a single combo chain, much less two reactive ones with branch points. The complexity in LoTRO ramps up very slowly, it's just as dead simple as most turn based MMOs at low levels (and remains so for some classes even at high levels). I got them all to around lvl 25 or so, i just felt the classes became overbalanced once i got outside bree doing the same quests with each i couldn't find any angles to play for each of them, not sure if this explains it any better
In any case, I do not think the combat in LoTRO would be imrpoved in the slighest by moving away from the turn based model. Changing the combat so drastically this late in the games life would be an absolutely enourmous NGE style f up. any game that changes gameplay after people invest time and money in it opens itself up to some really bad press, but personally do think the game could benefit from a bit more complexity in its character customisation options(which could explain why i felt the classes where overbalanced)
As sort of a final point on this, I feel it should be mentioned that Turbine is constantly evolving LotRO as is. Many small changes (and some not so small) have already been done in the 2yrs the game has been out. Every interview and dev blog says that more are on the way, with new content, more crafting, changes to the legendary system, the older class quests and so on. I think it is fair to say we will see at least some of the changes people have expressed a desire for here in the next few free expansions and some truely major innovation to the game introduced with Rohan and Helm's Deep.
As sort of a final point on this, I feel it should be mentioned that Turbine is constantly evolving LotRO as is. Many small changes (and some not so small) have already been done in the 2yrs the game has been out. Every interview and dev blog says that more are on the way, with new content, more crafting, changes to the legendary system, the older class quests and so on. I think it is fair to say we will see at least some of the changes people have expressed a desire for here in the next few free expansions and some truely major innovation to the game introduced with Rohan and Helm's Deep.
sounds interesting, i did look in to see if mom would offer me anything different but i think it was too soon after i left
out of curiosity any idea on what these 'innovations' would be? or is this just more marketing talk as i honestly can't remember seeing anything on lotro that i hadn't seen elsewhere(not that this is uniques to lotro unfortunately)
Biggest pont of actual innovation (something no other MMO has yet done) centers around the idea of "warfare" driven zones/instances where you will be commanding a number of NPCs that you fit out, train and upgrade over time. Nothing usable in the "regular" game, but specific quest lines/battle instances where you will fight with "your" customized unit of NPCs vs the scenario.
There are hints of a true mounted combat system coming with Rohan (somewhat obviously) not new to MMOs, but new to LotRO
An increase in the level cap has basically been confirmed along with the resulting revamp of many older class quests, raid zones and other level dependent stuff.
Biggest pont of actual innovation (something no other MMO has yet done) centers around the idea of "warfare" driven zones/instances where you will be commanding a number of NPCs that you fit out, train and upgrade over time. Nothing usable in the "regular" game, but specific quest lines/battle instances where you will fight with "your" customized unit of NPCs vs the scenario. There are hints of a true mounted combat system coming with Rohan (somewhat obviously) not new to MMOs, but new to LotRO An increase in the level cap has basically been confirmed along with the resulting revamp of many older class quests, raid zones and other level dependent stuff.
thankyou
the closest i've seen to this is the merc system in guildwars
certainly got me interested again and will be keeping an eye on this to see how it's done
LotRO, while continuing to receive periodic free updates, improvements and new content, plus a retail (about $30US) paid expansion about once a year, won't ever get the complete makeover as the writer of this article suggests.
Beyond "wouldn't it be kewl if.." and while the author does make some good points, the reality of life is that an NGE-type of "makeover" for LotRO is impractical, if not impossible, unless developers pretty much start designing these things with a clean slate. Do we think Turbine will ever come out with a "LotRO 2?" Nope.
Yet, for many of us long-time residents of the LotRO MMORPG (I've been in this MMO since early closed beta and have been a Lifetime Founder since day one), many of the recent "updates" and the "improvements" planned for Volume 2 are at least as often viewed as bitter rather than sweet.
The problems started with Mines of Moria and it seems to be continuing to move in the wrong direction.
Instancing is a crutch that's being overdone -- no matter what the dev journals say, if it looks like a dog, barks like a dog and bites like a dog, it's a dog. If we wanted instanced-everything, we'd be playing Age of Conan.
LotRO is alarming many by moving ever so strongly toward Raiding, hoping to lure the pubescents and the rest of the hardcore like-minded who couldn't care les about the journey, they ignore the lore, they can't be bothered to smell the flowers, all they want is max level, max gear ASAP -- to raid. More large-scale raids as an entity onto itself where, in their minds, the only items worthwhile for your avatar are raid rewards. Step-by-step, the new regime in charge of LotRO is further alienating themselves from the core premise that players could grind/hunt for, quest and craft equipment comparible to those received in raids. The only explanation for this is that the Turbine Team has deluded themselves into thinking this is what LotRO players want. The reality of life, however, is that we'd all be playing WoW, not LotRO, if we wanted a raid-centric MMO.
LotRO should hold true to it's roots -- the core values and systems that both the LoTRO MMO and the LotRO community were founded on.
Comments
I have to say one of the ley things most MMO's have done wrong, and this has been pointed out, is put levels in games.
The departure from skill based to level based changed everything and not for the good. You never cared about how many things you had to kill when you were going for 100 Swordsmanship in Ultima Online. Even in OLD SWG it was skill based and you cared a lot less about how long it took or what it took. That aside I think some of the ideas mentioned have been tried and failed but the key is to keep thinking and keep putting ideas out there.
COMBAT-
FPS style combat exist in D&D Online and its a failure, similar things were tried in Age of Conan too and it also failed. The die roll mechanic works but people need to start putting more care into the quests your performing so you dont have to kill 1,000,000,000 boars. It could be improved upon by giving people various routes of skills to choose from and different animations or better yet have a few 1000 animations that as players we can string together to give yourself a more custom feel to those skills you use.
PVP/PVE
I think too much emphasis is put on PVP but that is my personal view. I find there are 3 types of players: Pvp'rs, Pve'rs and Players. I am a player I will play a game and try all the different aspects of the game taking no ones opinion but my own. Pvp'rs only care about pvp and fighting each other...I think it is a serious statement about people in general that we feel the need to fight each other even in an enviroment designed for fun. Pve'rs are very different maybe they just like to level, or just like to craft, or maybe they just like to socialize whatever it is that is why they play. I think PVP is a needed component for a game to be succesful financially but I think it needs to be made fun with a Game system to it.
CRAFTING-
This is my STRONGEST area discussion because contrary to what some people think crafting does need to be more complex and I will explain why. But I will note it needs to be a gradual increase in complexity.
For people like me I am a crafter. We craft that is what we do.
I will give an example of a bad crafting system and why first.
World of Warcraft has a horrible crafting system, why?
Because if I have a 100 Blacksmithy and make a dagger and my friend has a 400 Blacksmithy and makes the same dagger they are IDENTICAL. No difference all of his months of extra work has made him no more skilled at making that dagger than myself. No rewards for his efforts. Another reason it is horrible is there is absolutely no chance of failure you cannot fail at crafting so there is no challenge. And the third and final reason why, because you have to become a skilled combatant just to craft. I do not see why you cannot craft to max skill from level 1.
Now a good crafting system would have a gradual increase in complexity, use a large assortment of materials, that you can use and would have a system integrated allowing you to customize the look of the item as well as its stats. Give each item a base pool of stats and the higher your skill the more you can move those numbers around. So by the time you were at maximum skill you could completely remake the concept of the item. Using my above example if I had 100 skill and made a dagger maybe I could change the hilt on it, move the maximum damage up some and lower the minimum. My friend who was a master could make the dagger and pick the hilt, its colors, the blade pick the color, Maybe even Name the thing, and make the max/min damage exactly what he wanted within the limits of the item and MAYBE have a chance to imbue it with some magical effect just from his sheer skill.
ANother thing missing is the repair factor if your playing WOW and your a master Hammer smith why can you not repair at least your own Hammer? I mean does your character skip that day of training or what?
Thats my 2 cents.
Not the easiest things to find since the best, http://www.mmogchart.com/charts/ has basically stopped reporting (but they are still the best historical reference around) They have LotRO at 150-200k in early 2008.
Great read on the entire topic from later 2008, http://t-machine.org/index.php/2008/11/23/predicting-player-figures-for-any-online-game-or-mmo/
Sadly. Neither Turbine nor Codemasters release subscription numbers. So really pretty much everyone is guessing and BSing, (myself included) based on sparse interviews, 3rd party sites and the "feel" from lots of forums and unofficial posts. Jeffrey Steefel has hinted in numerous interviews/articles that the games "audience" has been growing steadily but slowly.
Also, as that article mentions, you can try and draw some conclusions from www.xfire.com, but not with any concrete validity. (Although the generally static Xfire numbers can be used to argue it's not dropping at least)
This http://www.mmodata.net/ is an attempt to continue the earlier mmogchart data forward.
Most interestingly and just recently, this little gem has popped up:http://middleearthadventurer.blogspot.com/2009/03/server-population-compilation.html
http://status.warriorsofnargathrond.com/?numbers=yes
It is probable that this isn't actually tracking active log ins, speculation currently seems to favor it showing total number of log ins that day or something similar - still it provides some useful base for analysis.
I know some people *like* the grind-encouraging, turn-based, dated and boring MUD-derived combat system, but I personally can't stand it. It quickly becomes simply a matter of arranging your actions in the best order in a hotbar, then pressing the hotbar keys in order repeatedly until your enemy has died. It has no strategy, it takes no skill, it's not even amusing or fun to watch. It's boring and trite and MMOG developers and players alike have the misconception that it's the only type of gameplay possible in an MMOG. It's ridiculous. Practically every MMOG in the past decade has been made with the exact same combat system, with minor variations.
[quote]
COMBAT-
FPS style combat exist in D&D Online and its a failure, similar things were tried in Age of Conan too and it also failed.
[/quote]
Neither game used FPS style combat actually. AoC used a target-based*, turn-based dice rolling system, which just happened to be fast paced. There was nothing FPS style about it. DDO allowed you to aim ranged based weaponry, but melee attacks were still rolled with to-hit dice etc. So, no, you don't know what you're talking about, sorry.
* Target-based = Regardless of the physical arc of a weapon, you will only ever hit the enemy you have selected.
* Turn-based = I do not mean "turn-based" in the sense that JRPGs are turn-based, but none the less, actions happened in clearly delineated turns, with pauses in between (based on numbers in your character sheet).
* Dice rolling = In AoC, the result of a given attack was based SOLELY on the result of a die roll with input parameters based on numbers from your character. Further, physically moving out of range or the line of an attack has no effect on whether or not it will hit.
If any 1 of those things is true about an MMOG, it cannot be said to be "FPS style" in any sense, and all three were true about AoC. The "directional attack" stuff was a thin facade, and meant nothing in terms of actual combat gameplay. In fact, AoC used the same basic MUD-derived combat as almost every MMOG for the past decade.
I think some others mentioned it, but the real problem that I see in MOST games, crafting-wise isn't the diversity or complexity of the crafting itself. But in how we bring the goods to market.
We need tools for selling AND buying, for placing orders and posting "willing to make..." notices.
I'd like to see what things have actually SOLD for, not just the prices people are offering them for.
It's be really great if I could log in, and see three notices for people who want to buy a hand crafted spear, I could make a few spears from materials on hand, fill the orders, and get to adventuring. If I didn't like the price they were offering I could just post up some spears at a higher price, but if the daily average (or whatever) is significantly lower than what I want, maybe I won't make any at all.
Thanks very much for those links Ericbelzer. appreciate it much.
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
Osric_of_O:
---------------
I love the idea for the "hustle" bonus when traveling via roads instead of cross country.
Furthermore, I constantly find myself wondering why on (Middle)Earth Turbine feels the need to make movement so generally slow in the first place.
If they just made it to where the base run-speed for all characters was 125% of current (matching Warden and Captain speed buffs) then it would help greatly with making the game feel a bit faster.
And for those who are not aware, the base speed really is "run speed" even though it feels like walking.
Hit the "Insert" button and see what Turbine made the "walk speed" and see if you think of any reason for the "walk speed" existing at all.
Housing/Crafting:
---------------
I love the idea of making it so that you could have a "vendor" or "order board" in the housing instances so that players could post "want ads" for crafted gear they would like to purchase, or crafters could post "offers" to make gear.
That would give some benefits to crafting and the nearly unused housing.
The idea of being able to make the same item better based on craft expertise is wonderful as well.
Even simply making a natural crit chance increase based on craft mastery would be a good start.
If I am a Surpreme Master Weaponsmith and I craft an apprentice level dagger, I should have a base crit chance of 50% automatically.
I'm sorry, but a lot of the things mentioned in this article have been done and perfected. The game was called Starwars Galaxies (Pre NGE). That game had everything a player could want to have, and of course things could be tweaked to make gameplay better, but the game was just amazing.
The game had massive planets/maps, so at no point was an area cluttered, but even more players were in control. Your players could create an entire town, houses can be placed at will anywhere you wanted. Everything in game was created by another character, resources gathered by another character.. and in the essence of weapons, armor, and food buffs, all depended on the quality of their resources; which increased or decreased value.
The game wasn't really based on quests, quests were just something to give you a couple credits and some xp, but the game just let you live in the Starwars Galaxy, and actually be a part of everything.
Unfortunately not everyone shares my love for the game, but it's the only game that had so many things right, but the developers trying to "think outside the box" ruined it to dumb the game down, and instead lost millions of subscribers.
Anyway, as far as Lord of the Rings. It's the only other MMO I've been able to enjoy for any period of time aside from SWG. Though combat became very very repetitive, and relying on groups to get quests completed is a good thing but got old fast. Housing is an absolute disgrace, and storage/crafting/etc was just not very well done.
I don't know why players can't trade weapons that they've equipped, I don't know how many weapons I had to just trash just because I outgrew it, but no one else could use... and it's really annoying when your Grand Master Weaponsmith makes crappier weapons than quest/loot found weapons... and the whole "Legendary" weapons is a big pile of crap.
People love to customize their own stuff, and make it their own. Giving it names, giving it it's own distinctive look, and having it be one of the rarest, baddest thing ever. Improving this game would take a lot, because as of right now it's an awesome looking game, but it just lacks in so many ways as stated above.
Hard to understand how a game built in 1999? had more free roaming than a game built in 2005+
I know this game took a lot of it's cues from World of Warcraft, still not sure how that game is so popular but that's beyond me, but it's type of game has the ability to be really great.
Edit: To expand on house customization/storage... To go back to SWG my house was bigger than probably most Guild houses in LORTO, and could hold up to 500 items, and any item found within the game could be placed inside the house anywhere I wanted. So if I found a broken sword, I could put it on the wall, ceiling, floor, flying in the air, whatever I wanted. I think I had a fireplace made out of a table, mechanic tool box, some torches, and some other items, all mixed together and the end result was actually quite pleasing.. I also had some old beat up armor suits displayed, a huge dragon skull, so many things... Some of you may remember if you played the game back in the day, how good it was..
An interesting debate. I played LOTRO from launch for quite a while on and off.
Personally, I found the combat was one of the more lacking areas of the game and is probably the main reason why I doubt I'll return. While I think a full FPS would be a step too far - almost certainly alienating the majority of existing subscribers (NGE anyone?) perhaps less drastic changes could go a long way to making combat more interesting. Active dodging/blocking certainly, less reliance on a continually chaining different buttons with little variation and more on timing, positioning etc.
As an example, DDO's combat feels much more interesting/exciting. The differences are small, but I always felt the combat in DDO was just more fun. I don't play either anymore btw, so I'm not trying to bang the drum for DDO or anything. There's plenty of other combat systems that are arguably better, though ultimately it's personal taste.
I can't imagine them not releasing fully playable Orcs etc, though I'd expect it to probably be with the release of a major battlefield. If it's well implemented they could easily double the subs.
To play devils advocate, travel is already unrealistically fast in the game - mostly because they've shrunk the various areas down. Run from Bree to Rivendell and time it. Then go back and look at how long that trip took in the books.
However, realistically, the reason for the run speed is to make it advantageous for people to buy a horse and/or use stable routes. This acts as a money sink and helps them control the economy. Although, I guess they could raise the horse speed when they raised the run speed - but that might create game stability/frame rate issues.
Slainte Mhath!
I completely disagree with your concept of combat. If you want that much control go play a FPS, they are designed that way. I much rather play a MMO where my lack of quick reactions doesn't doom me in a fight. I think you will find only a small minority agreeing with you on this one.
As to crafting, I agree with you. Adding chance and skill in to crafting is very important. Games that have strict formulas that do not vary with the crafters skill and chance have doomed themselves to mediocrity in this arena.
personally i think the ideas mentioned would make for a more exciting and mature game over the existing gamestyle (i'm not a hardcore mmorpger but i find the 'wow clone' games incredibly boring and extremely child orientated)
it would also mean changing lotro into a completely different game which is not something i would agree, not without the consent of their existing playerbase anyway
hey Menacewithin, Are there still a lot of people playing SWG? did they upgrade the graphics? I was surprised when I clicked on the population link for lotro (thanks again) how over 800k are online the 2x I had time to check. I must be on the wrong server but no big deal. Lotro graphics are beutiful when I check the game out. Am curious to know if SWG did anything with theirs. It was a cool game for its time your right. Too many other mmos came out to compete with it. I have a tendacy to check out more than I should overlooking some and forgeting how good some were. coh/v is still great for an old game, very unique and constantly changing. People are talking about ddo combat style? I played the game for the first month it came out, still own it. Did they change much since then or did I just overlook (probably forgot) the combat system? thanks.
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
While its good to keep discussions like these in open conversation, I have to point out that rarely does the voice of the satisfied gamer receive any substantial represenation.
I for one have been enjoying LotRO for over a year now with very few complaints. In fact, I belong to a kinship of mature, selfless people that are quite satisfied with the game overall and hardly have a cross word to say about it. We have discussions about bugs or game mechanics that we think may be improved upon, but my kin-mates are happy. We really enjoy the game.
Now what contrasts may there be between our enjoyable experience and your unenjoyable experiences? Personally, I think it boils down to one very important maxim: You get out of it only what you bring to it.
Straight up - this is one of the lost lessons of our civilisation. With any task, job, project, game, hobby, craft, relationship, etc., you can only expect to receive that which you brought to it, within reason of course.
Insofar as the game you happen to be playing at the moment is concerned, improvements can almost always be made. Knowledge is aggregate, after all, and hind-sight allows you and I a chance to play the critic. But as for my enjoyment in the world of Saul Zaentz- *ahem* Tolkien, I cannot complain over-much. The only other place I'd rather be adventuring with a hobbit is found within the space between the type on the pages contained within but only a handfull of books.
~kinudig?
Combat:
Change it to a twitch based FPS, or some abortion of a hybrid system where you have to aim manually but your stats still affect whether you hit or not....no thanks. LoTRO has fairly strategic combat for a turn based system. Play up something other than a Hunter or a Champion and you'd be aware of that. And why is LoTRO being called out on this, instead of WoW, WAR, EQ, EQ II...and hell every other MMO that has turn based combat?
Crafting:
I happen to like the crafting a great deal. It lets you make great gear without being too much of a horrific grind. See WoW for how not to do crafting. See launch WAR for how to have a crafting system that sucks so badly that whoever designed it hould be taken outside and shot. The fact that you can hunt up rare ingredients to increase your chances of making a superior product (or that it's even possible to crit items in the first place) already puts the crafting in LoTRO ahead of 90% of MMOs.
I do agree that it would be nice to be able to craft trully unique items, or at least modify the stats on end products to a greater degree than "normal" vs "crit." However, again, I'm not sure why LoTRO is being called out on this. EQ II, EVE, and a few other MMOs have better crafting. But really, not many do in my experience. I see it as one of the strengths of the game.
Housing:
It's nice that LoTRO at least has housing. Decorating my house is a fun side game. However, it's one of the most basic systems on the market (unless you count numerous MMOs that have no housing at all). It also really bugs me that we can't free form place items. This is one area where LoTRO does need real improvement.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I do not want to "dodge and block and roll" when in combat. If liked that kind of thing, I'd already be playing an FPS, which I am not. I certainly hope the OP does not get enough backing to ruin this wonderful game!
IMHO, how and when you click those skills introduces the strategy - particularly those skills with a longer timer. As a guardian who mostly plays in a fellowship setting (currently doing radiance runs), I need to manage aggro constantly. If I choose poorly in what skills to click when, it can make a big difference to whether or not we are successful. If I don't keep stuff off the minstrel, she dies and we'll probably wipe. Likewise, if she doesn't keep me alive, she'll probably be the next target once I'm down and we'll probably wipe. Also, due to the way the instances are structured, there's a lot of strategy in how you run and complete each instance. So - if you do get defeated - there's often plenty you can do differently the next time.
Find a good kinship and then find a group of friends within that kinship that you like to play regularly with. That is what will make the game fun for you in the long run. I've been playing LOTRO since beta. I play on 2 nights a week with a great fellowship. It's those people and the fun we have that keeps me playing.
Finally, from what I've heard, there's more strategy/tactics involved in playing a warden due to the gambit mechanism. To some extent, the attunement mechanism for runekeepers also introduces some strategy. My warden and runekeeper are lowbies though, so I can't comment personally.
Full disclosure - I have never played another MMO and I really like LOTRO (I have a lifetime membership). So long as there are people in LOTRO that I enjoy playing with, I don't see me stopping playing it (altho Bioware's SW MMO looks tempting). I have played FPSs extensively though and would not want to see that mechanic introduced in LOTRO.
Slainte Mhath!
I meant purely in comparison to other MMOs with turn based combat (WoW, EQ II, ect. as you say). That should have been pretty clear from the last line of my post.
And if you really couldn't tell any difference in the gameplay between
1. a fairly simple single target DPS class with limited crowd control abilities
2. a tank with two different primary combo chains that are activated by different reactives and where the combo chains have switch points leading to different outcomes (for example a high threat attack or a self heal off of a block activated chain).
3. and a class that in parties has to manage a pet as well as decide whether to heal, cure, DPS, debuff, stun targets, or hand out power buffs (and really needs to keep on top of all of them to be working at full potential).
...I would suggest that you didn't get far enough to see what these classes really can do, or that I very badly misinterpreted what you meant. For example, as I recall at low levels Gaurdians don't have a single combo chain, much less two reactive ones with branch points. The complexity in LoTRO ramps up very slowly, it's just as dead simple as most turn based MMOs at low levels (and remains so for some classes even at high levels).
In any case, I do not think the combat in LoTRO would be imrpoved in the slighest by moving away from the turn based model. Changing the combat so drastically this late in the games life would be an absolutely enourmous NGE style f up.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
IMHO, how and when you click those skills introduces the strategy - particularly those skills with a longer timer. As a guardian who mostly plays in a fellowship setting (currently doing radiance runs), I need to manage aggro constantly. If I choose poorly in what skills to click when, it can make a big difference to whether or not we are successful. If I don't keep stuff off the minstrel, she dies and we'll probably wipe. Likewise, if she doesn't keep me alive, she'll probably be the next target once I'm down and we'll probably wipe. Also, due to the way the instances are structured, there's a lot of strategy in how you run and complete each instance. So - if you do get defeated - there's often plenty you can do differently the next time.I get you, also timing becomes more important when fighting multiple enemies
Find a good kinship and then find a group of friends within that kinship that you like to play regularly with. That is what will make the game fun for you in the long run. I've been playing LOTRO since beta. I play on 2 nights a week with a great fellowship. It's those people and the fun we have that keeps me playing.
Finally, from what I've heard, there's more strategy/tactics involved in playing a warden due to the gambit mechanism. To some extent, the attunement mechanism for runekeepers also introduces some strategy. My warden and runekeeper are lowbies though, so I can't comment personally.I left just b4 mom came out so can't comment either
Full disclosure - I have never played another MMO and I really like LOTRO (I have a lifetime membership). So long as there are people in LOTRO that I enjoy playing with, I don't see me stopping playing it (altho Bioware's SW MMO looks tempting). I have played FPSs extensively though and would not want to see that mechanic introduced in LOTRO. fps i think is the wrong term to describe it i think real time would be more accurate and has been in existence in comp rpg's almost as long as turn based games and has made for some great games if handled right(as has turn based) whether or not it would work in lotro better than the turn based i couldn't say without trying both, but that would be for a lotro 2 or lotro alternate
thnx have fun and hope they don't screw the game up for you
I meant purely in comparison to other MMOs with turn based combat (WoW, EQ II, ect. as you say). That should have been pretty clear from the last line of my post. Yep, but after posting in these forums i've found it best to clarify at times
And if you really couldn't tell any difference in the gameplay between
1. a fairly simple single target DPS class with limited crowd control abilities
2. a tank with two different primary combo chains that are activated by different reactives and where the combo chains have switch points leading to different outcomes (for example a high threat attack or a self heal off of a block activated chain).
3. and a class that in parties has to manage a pet as well as decide whether to heal, cure, DPS, debuff, stun targets, or hand out power buffs (and really needs to keep on top of all of them to be working at full potential).
...I would suggest that you didn't get far enough to see what these classes really can do, or that I very badly misinterpreted what you meant. For example, as I recall at low levels Gaurdians don't have a single combo chain, much less two reactive ones with branch points. The complexity in LoTRO ramps up very slowly, it's just as dead simple as most turn based MMOs at low levels (and remains so for some classes even at high levels). I got them all to around lvl 25 or so, i just felt the classes became overbalanced once i got outside bree doing the same quests with each i couldn't find any angles to play for each of them, not sure if this explains it any better
In any case, I do not think the combat in LoTRO would be imrpoved in the slighest by moving away from the turn based model. Changing the combat so drastically this late in the games life would be an absolutely enourmous NGE style f up. any game that changes gameplay after people invest time and money in it opens itself up to some really bad press, but personally do think the game could benefit from a bit more complexity in its character customisation options(which could explain why i felt the classes where overbalanced)
As sort of a final point on this, I feel it should be mentioned that Turbine is constantly evolving LotRO as is. Many small changes (and some not so small) have already been done in the 2yrs the game has been out. Every interview and dev blog says that more are on the way, with new content, more crafting, changes to the legendary system, the older class quests and so on. I think it is fair to say we will see at least some of the changes people have expressed a desire for here in the next few free expansions and some truely major innovation to the game introduced with Rohan and Helm's Deep.
sounds interesting, i did look in to see if mom would offer me anything different but i think it was too soon after i left
out of curiosity any idea on what these 'innovations' would be? or is this just more marketing talk as i honestly can't remember seeing anything on lotro that i hadn't seen elsewhere(not that this is uniques to lotro unfortunately)
Biggest pont of actual innovation (something no other MMO has yet done) centers around the idea of "warfare" driven zones/instances where you will be commanding a number of NPCs that you fit out, train and upgrade over time. Nothing usable in the "regular" game, but specific quest lines/battle instances where you will fight with "your" customized unit of NPCs vs the scenario.
There are hints of a true mounted combat system coming with Rohan (somewhat obviously) not new to MMOs, but new to LotRO
An increase in the level cap has basically been confirmed along with the resulting revamp of many older class quests, raid zones and other level dependent stuff.
thankyou
the closest i've seen to this is the merc system in guildwars
certainly got me interested again and will be keeping an eye on this to see how it's done
LotRO, while continuing to receive periodic free updates, improvements and new content, plus a retail (about $30US) paid expansion about once a year, won't ever get the complete makeover as the writer of this article suggests.
Beyond "wouldn't it be kewl if.." and while the author does make some good points, the reality of life is that an NGE-type of "makeover" for LotRO is impractical, if not impossible, unless developers pretty much start designing these things with a clean slate. Do we think Turbine will ever come out with a "LotRO 2?" Nope.
Yet, for many of us long-time residents of the LotRO MMORPG (I've been in this MMO since early closed beta and have been a Lifetime Founder since day one), many of the recent "updates" and the "improvements" planned for Volume 2 are at least as often viewed as bitter rather than sweet.
The problems started with Mines of Moria and it seems to be continuing to move in the wrong direction.
Instancing is a crutch that's being overdone -- no matter what the dev journals say, if it looks like a dog, barks like a dog and bites like a dog, it's a dog. If we wanted instanced-everything, we'd be playing Age of Conan.
LotRO is alarming many by moving ever so strongly toward Raiding, hoping to lure the pubescents and the rest of the hardcore like-minded who couldn't care les about the journey, they ignore the lore, they can't be bothered to smell the flowers, all they want is max level, max gear ASAP -- to raid. More large-scale raids as an entity onto itself where, in their minds, the only items worthwhile for your avatar are raid rewards. Step-by-step, the new regime in charge of LotRO is further alienating themselves from the core premise that players could grind/hunt for, quest and craft equipment comparible to those received in raids. The only explanation for this is that the Turbine Team has deluded themselves into thinking this is what LotRO players want. The reality of life, however, is that we'd all be playing WoW, not LotRO, if we wanted a raid-centric MMO.
LotRO should hold true to it's roots -- the core values and systems that both the LoTRO MMO and the LotRO community were founded on.
Change is not always a good thing.