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Encouraging Int'l Friendly MMO's & MMO-related websites!
Foxly
Member Posts: 78
Where is the love?
Just wanted to bring up a subject that my husband and I have noticed about MMO's. We recently moved from America to Britain (he's British, I'm American) and signed up for SWG earlier this year. We've checked out DAoC, Mu Online, RoE, & RYL. We couldn't help but notice a few things that stung a little when signing up for MMO's.
1. Star Wars Galaxies released a separate American version of the game which included sunglasses for your character. The Brits get a dinky poster in the Special Edition SWG of Darth Vader and it looks like a fold-out from a magazine. This is common with many MMORPG titles.
2. Games do not usually include foreign currency prices or easily findable prices on their official websites. There are a LOT of Brits, Brazilians, Spanish, French, & German that play. Many Europeans. But all prices are listed (if at all, we had to email some sites for the price list, or the price list is cleverly hidden on a massive website) is in US Dollars or Euros only!
3. Some games are only available for download outside the U.S. with NO online user manual???
4. Competitions or prize drawings through MMO-related websites & MMORPG companies either make foreigners pay shipping if they win, nullify some of the prizes to those outside the U.S. & Canada, or exclude all paying customers outside the U.S. & Canada.
5. Many MMORPG's charge Britain more!!! There is $1.80 to a single British £! We are gettin' ripped off!
6. There are fewer download servers for games in Europe, South America, & for other nations as well. Bandwidth is usually not so good.
7. There are fewer playing servers for Europe, Asian, & South America.
8. There is relatively no play support for the Far East. Though China, Korea, Japan, and other oriental countries provide play service to the West. (KAL Online, Mu Online, etc.)
9. Little to no support in foreign country times, almost always in EST, etc. American times in Europe can be 6 to 9 hours ahead of America 
. This isn't very supportive for those that do not play 24/7 without work or obligation...
10. Outside the U.S. & Canada, CoH can't even be purchased in stores. You'd have to special order it from American online shops (if the seller ships overseas at all) and are cost more in shipping prices. I quote: 'You will not receive a box, manuals or a CD, but you will be able to create an account and play instantly as soon as you have downloaded the client. ' The price for this is $49.99, and if I am understanding correctly, that is the full price for a regular boxed w/ CD & Manual CoH purchase...
11. P2P downloads should not be an acceptable avenue of providing an international client download. Some countries don't get a game distributed to them, so the client is offered for international download. They could easily become infected on someone's pc with this P2P distribution of game clients (yes, supported by the official game companies themselves -usually with Bittorrent.) International client downloads should be from the server space itself, if it means compensating with an extra server, they should have been prepared to support their international consumers when they began offering them a service. Regardless of what they claim, the bandwidth for Bittorrent is horrible in addition to the easy risk of getting a virus.
Seeing as those outside the U.S. & Canada often have to pay more and make up a huge amount of consumer base as players, shouldn't we have the same services, rewards, prizes, support, and server quality and vice versa?
Where is the love?
"Define me by my personality, not my nationality or the politics related to any nation I may live in."
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
Comments
the monthly fees usually isn't publishers fault...UK is EU country so they have to pay VAT too what Americans doesnt.
but unfortunately in most MMORPGs, europeans are treated like the second grade customers.
Oi! I forgot about VAT, it's 17.5%! Thanks for reminding me. Yes, it does seem that VAT might have a role in discouring a reasonable price for European MMORPG play. They really should stipulate a different percentage tax based on what is being purchased. A flat rate tax like this is unjustifiable & it cramps afforable MMORPG prices.
Europeans do seem to be treated like 2nd rate consumers, also, all foreigners to the U.S. & Canada. I bet Brazilians and Japanese get very poor support if any. Mediterranean countries as well. It is really sad to see such a large consumer base treated as 2nd rate with all the international business options out there to more easily provide foreign countries with better support, shipping rates, and translated versions of MMO titles. It really is easy to do a lot of things and would not cost a fortune, but they are simply not interested in a larger consumer base, are they? It certainly seems that way.
I encourage anyone who would like people outside of the U.S. & Canada to receive equal opportunities in the online gaming community to answer the poll and give a shout out. Maybe we will be noticed
To my friends in America, you're so lucky! Don't take what you got for granted!
Define me by my personality, not my nationality or the politics related to any nation I may live in.
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
Foxly,
This has been one of my irritation points for a long time. I live in The Netherlands. When I played MMORPGs they were all American based and in many ways i had to make due with that. Currency was US (ok, CC company doesn't care much.), servers were US only, customer support had toll-free numbers.. US only (so I could only email them.) And all such things.
This is why now, now that I'm waiting for WoW EU version, I hope to see some change in this all. At least servers will be EU based, and support will be local. I'll have to pay in British Pounds initially, as I'm going to play in the UK .. perhaps they'll just take Euros (they should
)
The problem is that the EU fan base is usually smaller (or, so the game developers like to think.) I think it can outgrow the US, in time. But how can it grow if the growth process is being contraint?
If you look at the numbers for WoW in Europe, the amount of people (300k+) subscribing for the closed beta was higher than the estimate MMORPG market size... Right'o
I think that with Blizzard setting a foot in Europe, things will improve. Give it some time, and it'll be fine.
Yes, its weird that US based companies let foreign people use their products without proper support.. but its a choice to play them. Last year I chose not to play any US based games anymore. So I'm happy WoW comes to the EU now!
Cheers,
Nash
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Define me by my personality, not my nationality or the politics related to any nation I may live in.
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
Europeans has answered this by starting to roll MMORPGs of their own out...
Saga of Ryzom
Mourning (currently in beta)
Adellion (currently in alpha)
Dark & light (some claim it to be european, currently in beta)
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
I do agree with this post. Being British
, it often seems as though we get the scrubby end of the stick when it comes to video and computer games in general, and MMO's in particular. Its not through lack of local popularity for the material, that's for damn certain. I remember when Diablo Battlenet was new here. It was huge!
My friends and I were insane over it. I talked to, and roleplayed with, people from all over the world. I'm not at all surprised that Blizzard are more friendly to Europe than certain other companies I could mention. They remember how well they did over here with Warcraft, Diablo and it's sequels, Starcraft, et al. I think I'll certainly be checking out WoW in the New Year. It looks fantastic, and I've heard good things about it.
Getting back onto the subject, games companies need to WAKE UP! and realise that they could be alienating a whole slew of folks who could be filling their pockets. It is only a matter of time before a new company releases a competitive MMO and swipes the smug looks off their faces. You can bet that said new company won't have any problem supporting their product worldwide, and then the corporate fat will well and truly be in the fire. Where I shall be waiting with my pitchfork!
I cannot wait, personally.
Foxly, welcome to the UK first off. Its wet all year round but the beer is good and most people DON'T own a firearm so it has some things going for it (what IS it with the USA and guns!?!).
The software industry is very much dominated by America especially for the Online market, as so much of the USA is internet enabled in comparison to Europe. Also the USA offers 266 million potential customers all speaking one language under the same law where as Europe has numerous language and laws to contend with to get the same potential base. So I can see why the focus for the USA companies is firmly routed at home. It is however, annoying. I bought SWG when it launched from the USA by mail order. I was unable to play the game until the European servers launched and frankly was fobbed off by the SOE support staff. It hasn't endeared me to SOE much. I don;t like the act that having played the WoW beta, I am now unable to log into the USA servers (all the more ironic in that Blizzard are owned by VU Games, basically the French media giant Vivendi Universal)
The game I play currently is EVE Online, published and supported by a bunch of Icelanders as I'm sure we all know. I find the community and support far more international in scope and attitude (and generally far polite) than SOE. I think there is something of the small company attitude in this, but alot stems from the natural international attitude that most Europeans have. Cultural differences are very pronounced in Europe, but we are all a lot closer together and frankly are more intersted by international issues than the equivalent USA citizen seems to be. We are also more used to dealing with other cultures I think.
I guess I'm trying to say that the penchant for the USA to focus on itself is not something confined to the games industry alone.
A Korpz in all things
A Korpz in all things
Dark and Light is a truly international game and its developers are trying to get around all the delays and problems that local distrubutors cause by having the option to buy it online and download it. If you must have a box you will have delays in the smaller countries since distrubution is still very fragmented everyplace outside the U.S. I think some of the newer game developers just don't appreciate that or just don't want to bother working through all the local channels.
The U.S. dollar is the international currency and is the reference for most things. Other currencies change relative to the dollar (especially now with the dollar declining) so that keeping all exchange rates current is a problem. Also the seller can't post every international currency so someone will always feel left out.
Eve Online charges 14.95 Euros per month and $14.95? A 50 day subscription is $29.95? I didn't see much international support, are there American servers? I didn't see a server list, of course I haven't downloaded the client.
Distribution is usually a matter of politics, otherwise it runs smoothly and neatly. Distribution is not a great effort, it's the entities involved and how greatly the product is likely to impact the economy of the receiving country. The developers and the EEC just need to work it out so we gamers can have our fun.
About distribution, the EEC and American corporations' differences are really starting to affect the gaming community now and it would be nicer if development companies would stop only releasing titles in America and Japan. (Square Enix you are so guilty with no plans to release Final Fantasy Advent Children in Europe or Britain!)
To translate a title is relatively easy, inexpensive, and quickly accomplished.
The exchange rate for international currency is available up-to-date through certain investing websites and banks' websites for listing on your website. It would be effortless to copy such code into the website HTML of an MMO website so consumers could see how much money it costs them in local currency. The US Dollar has been the same for at least a year and a half. I also had an American bank account up till I closed it last week, so I always needed to be aware of the current USD to GBP exchange rate. A lot of people would appreciate this little courtesy.
As for the box, no one cares about the box. It's regarding the user manual which isn't provided online or offline with the CoH client download. You also would be paying the full price, which was mostly to cover the packaging & printing anyway. So effectively, CoH gyps its international consumers. You don't have anything to learn the game with initially unless some kindly fan has posted on a forum somewhere
As for America focusing on itself, it's a common sense normal business practice in most countries. Start at home and expand overseas. The home consumer base is thus supported first, an overseas support base would take time, but let's face it. MMO devs like SOE aren't even trying. I don't think it is a crime to stimulate your own local economy, I think it's a good idea. I do think it is very poor business sense and tactics to release a game overseas and not provide the exact same service as at home. Very poor indeed. If they want the overseas consumer base (they do sell to Europe, Brazil, Mediterranean, Japan, China, Australia, etc.) they'd better damn well be prepared to offer them the same services since they're paying the same prices.
Huzzah! I'm off my soap box now!
Thanks for responding to this peoples, your support may hopefully go a long way to opening some eyes. We can always hope.
Define me by my personality, not my nationality or the politics related to any nation I may live in.
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
Just to clarify, Eve only has one game server on which everyone, regardless of location, plays.
A Korpz in all things
A Korpz in all things
Must not have a very large player base then, because a single server can't support everyone everywhere and relays to that server will be lagged from overseas. I don't see how this supports anyone really but locals. And a Bitorrent file download is a really slow P2P way of providing people with the client. I think it has a lot to work on. I fail to see any American support on Eve online. I have only seen Europeans say good things about it and people who want an opportunity to flame other Sci-fi MMO's. Anyway, the pricing is definitely not internationally supporting, considering that Euros are worth less than American Dollars, so the Americans are paying more for no additional server support to prevent lag/relay delays and it looks like you would need to visit the fan sites listed on Eve's main page if you want international support. They sell belts that cost like $50, that is just silly.
Anyway, enough about Eve, it is European friendly, but of course it is European. What about other countries?
Define me by my personality, not my nationality or the politics related to any nation I may live in.
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
Actually, VAT is a European flat tax applied to everything, which is not 15%, but 17.5%.
Also, 12k people is not all that spectacular for an MMO if you do a little comparing. They will soon need to add more servers to support their growing player base. Lag will, if it isn't already, be a problem if only one fat server is used. I suppose you are European and I understand you want Eve represented properly, so as I have not played Eve, thanks for your contributing information. Just checked my currency converter, and voila! The Euro has climbed to equal $1.33! I admit I am surprised, but this is a good thing for the world, I think. America's commercialism will have to compensate and will be more controlled as a result, as an American I can tell you it is commercial hell there. I have seen lots of billboards here in Leicester, but all in certain block areas, unlike where I used to live in Colorado Springs which is plastered so badly that people protest the billboards stating it takes away from the natural scenic beauty of the place. It is very bad commercially, but I think with the emergence of the Euro, Europe will be faced with a lot of new challenges and opportunities. So congrats, Europe, on superceding the American Dollar. And thank you Kraptor, for pointing that out. I am better informed now.
I bow to your superior knowledge! Last I checked was over a year and a half ago and much has changed since then.
Don't even start with SOE, not even Americans like it. They have the WORST
customer service and support team. Just today they announced the addition of 20 staff and they didn't say who the staff were from, but I think it is LucasArts coming in the get a handle on the SOE situation. None of the staff addition announcement mentioned anything about improving international support.
About the Eve pricing: My problem stemmed from the misconception that the US Dollar is worth more than the Euro, so it looked like a bad rip-off to me. I formally retract that statement now and my apologies for any offended.
Any browsing at all will show you that isn't entirely true. KAL Online, Eve varies depending on the page you're on -they should have both prices wherever prices are listed, and I haven't seen many Euros listings on other MMO's either. If anyone is interested The Reuters.co.uk currency converter is here:
http://www.reuters.co.uk/currencies.jhtml
Hopefully someone may find that useful.
Reuters is pretty reliable. If you have any updates about any MMO's at all being friendlier or not very friendly internationally, please list them under this topic with details. It's good to have that kind of consumer choice when deciding on an MMORPG and it should save people like me a lot of time of deciding what to play next, considering I don't really support MMO's that aren't international friendly.
Can't wait for World of Warcraft personally. My husband is British
and he tells me Battlenet has had European servers for some years now and he really appreciates Blizzard Entertainment for that. So Blizzard -hats off to you.
Thanks for your help Kraptor.
Define me by my personality, not my nationality or the politics related to any nation I may live in.
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
Well, I am not protecting EVE, cause I don't really like the game. i jus tlike the idea that ppl are on the same server at the same time. Of course it won't have a user base like EQ or WOW, but still 12K at the same time on the same server is a pretty good idea:) Also actually it is not just one server, but more servers (nods) that are connected to eachother and you can hop from one to another as you travel.
VAT is another interesting question. It can be 15% or higher like you have in the UK. For eg AO charges 15% "As of 1. July 2003, EU regulations require us to apply VAT to all purchases made from EU countries. Funcom's subsidiary in Luxembourg collects EU subscription revenues at a flat 15% VAT (lowest VAT rate within the EU)." I think it depends where the amount is collected, but I am not sure about this.
Actually EVE quotes their prices in EURO and US D
http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_08.asp
and they even include a currency converter:) Again i am not defending, the game just saying that in that department it is pretty good, though with billing they are not that great but that is a diff question.
I am bored, cause those damn EQ2 servers are still down...oh well.
In Lineage2 you can pay in British pounds next to USD and EUR
Every British website I have ever ordered from charges universally 17.5% VAT, local stores charge 17.5% VAT, eBay.co.uk charges 17.5% VAT. When items are shipped to Britain for over a certain value amount a duty + 17.5% VAT are added onto that. I guess Britain is made to pay 2.5% more VAT than the rest of Europe then, which isn't entirely fair in itself. But then, from what I've seen, they constantly squabble.
Eve Online's price list you so graciously provided (thanks) is found in their FAQ's, which is a strange place to keep a pricelist (really should have it's own page.) Other pages on Eve Online don't list in both currencies. I didn't see a converter, maybe if I hunt longer I will find it. Maybe I just overlooked it on the site pages. There are other pages all over the site with one currency listing like the following:
http://www.eve-online.com/store/comersus_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=7
http://www.eve-online.com/store/shippingCost.asp
http://www.eve-online.com/store/comersus_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=2
http://www.eve-online.com/store/comersus_optPriceListExec.asp
http://www.eve-online.com/store/comersus_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=10
I also noted an absence of any currency converter on the main interface window which is static around pages you surf through on the www.eve-online.com website. The price pages listed above also do not list a currency converter. If they were going to list one, it should have been on those pages.
The fact that you have to hunt to find prices is annoying and inconvenient. Why not have a link on the main interface stating simply 'Gameplay Prices' and list in all major currencies? All it takes is a simple table, like the ones insertable into these board postings. Anyway, so now you know where I'm coming from about VAT on games and Eve Online's price listings. The idea about a pricelist for gameplay in various currencies would be convenient on a lot of MMO websites. Hmm. What do you think?
Define me by my personality, not my nationality or the politics related to any nation I may live in.
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
Foxly,
I loved your colorful post - your little quote at the end of your post gets my two thumbs up.
I live in Canada and as much as I agree with your post, the reality is that it's very costly process to establish a subsidiary in oversea countries. Not only you have to research different business model, you also have to prepare to meet entirely different set of fiscal obligations since you will be under different jurisdiction.
Small companies with budgetary constraint cannot afford that. A lots of companies STAY at home. They don't even come across the board asking people around whether their five cents would make a foothold in Caribbean sandstones.
However, the reason why the industry is still favoring localization is mainly due to economic reason than political reason.
It looks like favoritism but it's got more to do with market reality.
It won't be long before the Euro is the worldwide dominant currency, the Middle east and asian countries are already changing their values to the Euro, since the euro is quite a lot stabler(sp?) then the dollar.
If ignorance is bliss, you'd think people would be happier when you point out what morons they are!
Business problems are key in determining offshore branch-outs, but a problem has been arising lately between Europe and American goods. It is sad, to me, that I can no longer send wine or beer to America and I can't get beef jerky either. The reasons there are political, until a year ago, there were distributors in place. When I first moved to Britain a year-and-a-half ago, I was allowed to send ale to the States. It's kind of sad really. The EU hates America, but really a lot of this side of the world does. I just hope it doesn't affect our online gaming internationally or it ruins the fun for everyone.
Britain hosts a lot of excellent development aids for small businesses opening in Britain, that would include a small MMO company. They really should check their options, it means research and effort, but is surprisingly affordable.
-Foxly/MC Peepants
"Define me by my personality, not my nationality or the politics related to any nation I may live in."
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
I don't feel as if I'm treated as a second grade customer as a European.
If ignorance is bliss, you'd think people would be happier when you point out what morons they are!
VAT is like Sales Tax in the US, every country within the EU has different VAT. Not sure how does it work exactly. I think it works like this. Let say u buy a car within the EU then u pay VAT where the car will be registered and you will pay that country's VAT. For other things, like clothes, books, copmuters, mmogames, etc you pay VAT when you purchase the item and you pay diff percentage depends on the location of your purchase. Let say you buy a book in Germany, then you will pay 16% VAT on that item or if you order something from Germany then VAT will be 16%, if you order it from the UK then it will be 17.5%. In other EU countries (Sweden) the VAT is 25% or so, I think.
Most mmo lists their prices on their FAQs pages. I found it a bit silly too, but at least it is there.
The EVe game cards are in US$ cause I think they were avaiable only in the US market first and it was targeted for the US audience. Dunno about now, but if u just click "view" under the item it will take you to the item's page and you will see an "other currencies" link there where its price wil lbe listed in Euros, GBP, ISK and JPY
Wow, if the Asian countries also adopt the Euro, Britain might finally, too. Interesting concept. I wonder if the Australian Dollar will switch to Euros? Is Canada going to use Euros, too? Just a thought, but don't you have to be a part of Europe to have your official country currency the Euro? So many questions, interesting!
-Foxly/MC PEEPANTS
P.S.
Thanks for explaining VAT, upcoming Euro news, etc. ppl. The average non-European/non-Canadian/non-Australian, etc. doesn't know jack about EU economics if they are not physically in Europe and I didn't know much of anything about Euros when I lived in America. I'm still learning, as you can see, and this thread has been an eye opener for me. Thanks for offering the useful information and opinions folks.
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."
Doh! Sorry about the misinterpretation, I don't really keep a study of economics so this is enlightening for me. Thanks for the additional explaination concerning the difference between changing one's official currency and setting against the value of a dominant currency.
After learning that, I would be surprised if Asia hasn't already done so.
"Define me by my personality, not my nationality or the politics related to any nation I may live in."
"...the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem and hardly ever what we dream."